politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The BES polling chart that surely means that GE2017 was TMay’s
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"Six in ten Leave voters and a third of Remain voters say significant damage to the economy would be a price worth paying to get their way on Brexit"
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/britain-nation-brexit-extremists/0 -
Do you think there's still the "desire" there to race and to be competitive though?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Gin, the chassis and aerodynamics are actually pretty good. Even with a Renault engine, they'd be competitive for points often and the odd podium, I think.
It all went wrong after 2012, when the car was unreliable but very quick. They went for a different suspension approach which lost them performance, then switched to Honda, which proved about as wise as accepting an offer of a handjob from Edward Scissorhands.
I always felt Ron Dennis himself was a large part of the "driving force" behind the motor racing operation... With him gone I could see McLarens focus going much more towards their "high-end" road car business and further away from competitive racing.
Maybe I'm wrong though?0 -
YouGov: "Older Leave voters are significantly more willing than their younger counterparts to see the country, themselves and their families be economically compromised in order to achieve Brexit."
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A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)glw said:
Both are interesting stats depending on the context, but I do think that most people tend to want to know how well off they are or should be, which is what GDP is used by the press as a sort of proxy for. GDP per head would be better for that, GDP is misleading in that case if the country only has a large economy because of immigration and a rising birth rate.HHemmelig said:
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.glw said:
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.David_Evershed said:Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
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Mr. Gin, I agree with your implied suggestion that the rise of McLaren's road cars has coincided with the decline of its F1 fortunes and that Dennis was a fierce competitor.
However, the decline can be specifically linked to executive decisions (for 2013, I think it was, the suspension daftness, and, since then, going to Honda). Sling a Mercedes engine in this year's McLaren and Alonso would be a title contender.
They need a different engine. With that, they can compete and claw their way back up the grid.0 -
Must say I think that is surprising because the economy came out of 2016 with a fair bit of momentum. Q1 was a serious disappointment and Q2 is not much better. I think the falling off a cliff that some were forecasting in Q4 has been deferred, possibly indefinitely, but my own expectations for this year have gone down rather than up.CarlottaVance said:0 -
They'd be happy to invest their pension savings in Brexit Bonds to finance it then?rottenborough said:YouGov: "Older Leave voters are significantly more willing than their younger counterparts to see the country, themselves and their families be economically compromised in order to achieve Brexit."
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OK, hope your right. Would be a shame to lose McLaren from the grid.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Gin, I agree with your implied suggestion that the rise of McLaren's road cars has coincided with the decline of its F1 fortunes and that Dennis was a fierce competitor.
However, the decline can be specifically linked to executive decisions (for 2013, I think it was, the suspension daftness, and, since then, going to Honda). Sling a Mercedes engine in this year's McLaren and Alonso would be a title contender.
They need a different engine. With that, they can compete and claw their way back up the grid.0 -
Two mothers looking after each others kids for say £100 day that they pay between themselves would though. But if its their own, nil (Even though the end result is the same !)rcs1000 said:
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)0 -
Mr. Gin, the current financial and decision-making set up, I believe, is helpful to McLaren. Not as much as Ferrari, but they're still top end.
You are right, though, that this is a bad time and they need to get their act together. Apparently they'll make a decision on engines in September. The time for patience with Honda, I think, has ended.
Edited extra bit: incidentally, the engines do at least appear more reliable since the last update, which may open betting opportunities.0 -
Only if you're inclined for over-nationalistic "we're at the top of the UN table" over the individual life prospects for you and your family.HHemmelig said:
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.glw said:
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.David_Evershed said:Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
I'd take being an average Norwegian over an average Chinese any day of the week and twice on Sundays.0 -
Mind you a higher birth rate can also be indicative of an injection of youth into the work force by immigration or otherwise which will have the opposite effect as a higher percentage of the overall population is of working age. Immigration has helped our demographics in recent years, certainly compared to many areas of Europe, and it is not a coincidence that we have record overall employment.rcs1000 said:
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)glw said:
Both are interesting stats depending on the context, but I do think that most people tend to want to know how well off they are or should be, which is what GDP is used by the press as a sort of proxy for. GDP per head would be better for that, GDP is misleading in that case if the country only has a large economy because of immigration and a rising birth rate.HHemmelig said:
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.glw said:
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.David_Evershed said:Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
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The polling suggests that Brexiteers are more keen on the Chinese option than the Norwegian. They're happy to trade prosperity for national pride.Pulpstar said:
Only if you're inclined for over-nationalistic "we're at the top of the UN table" over the individual life prospects for you and your family.HHemmelig said:
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.glw said:
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.David_Evershed said:Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
I'd take being an average Norwegian over an average Chinese any day of the week and twice on Sundays.0 -
I suspect the forecasters were overly pessimistic a year ago - and until I saw today's PMI would have said they were verging on over-optimism now - time will tell!DavidL said:
Must say I think that is surprising because the economy came out of 2016 with a fair bit of momentum. Q1 was a serious disappointment and Q2 is not much better. I think the falling off a cliff that some were forecasting in Q4 has been deferred, possibly indefinitely, but my own expectations for this year have gone down rather than up.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Off topic:
How long will interest rates stay low, as I'll (Hopefully) be getting a somewhat larger mortgage than my current one shortly..
To 2 yr or 5 yr..0 -
The expectation is that interest rates will increase modestly in the next 6-9 months. IIRC that has been the expectation for about 3 or 4 years now!Pulpstar said:Off topic:
How long will interest rates stay low, as I'll (Hopefully) be getting a somewhat larger mortgage than my current one shortly..
To 2 yr or 5 yr..
My own guess would be that interest rates will struggle to get above 1% in the next 18 months. Inflation is already moderating and the post Brexit devaluation will start to fall out of the year on year comparisons shortly. An economy that is growing slightly below trend with low inflation does not seem an obvious candidate for interest rate rises.0 -
If you'd asked that question five years ago I'd have said go five year and I'd have been utterly wrong. Quite frankly I think you'd be better off flipping a coin to decide.Pulpstar said:Off topic:
How long will interest rates stay low, as I'll (Hopefully) be getting a somewhat larger mortgage than my current one shortly..
To 2 yr or 5 yr..0 -
With Crosby's recent record in Australia, Canada and now UK, even Kim il Sung would be hesitant in hiring him to help his election chances.....DecrepitJohnL said:Lynton Crosby should not expect a call from the next Conservative leader.
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All credit to him for standing up to the thugs. Hope he is okay.Morris_Dancer said:Steve McCabe attacked with a brick: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-40785740
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Construction output is now calculated to have risen by 20% between May 2013 and May 2017, but you would never believe it from the initial figures that the ONS released. Assuming that the figures for Q2 2017 are revised upwards, the real increase in output is probably even higher.DavidL said:
Yep, if you believed the published construction figures for the last few years our construction industry would be someone fitting double glazing to a flat in north London. It has officially been shrinking pretty much continuously with the odd revisal up again for years.currystar said:
I think the estimated GDP figures published each quarter are just nonsense. The last one said that Construction had fallen. I dont think the construction industry in this Country has ever been busier.Sean_F said:
PMI data has been far better than official numbers, so far this year, but the latter do get revised.CarlottaVance said:
When I was down at the Test I noticed that notwithstanding these figures the south side of the Thames seems to be as covered with cranes as ever.0 -
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I think we should remember that no prime minister with a working majority who has held a snap election before 4 years has passed has ever won that election.
We should also remember that "liking" a party leader has no bearing on his/her electoral chances. Margaret Thatcher was one of the most disliked politicians of the twentieth century and yet won three times. Professor Anthony King wrote a book showing how personalities of party leaders made little difference.
Older voters were turned off by the attack on their social care and pensions.
Younger voters were bribed by the tuition fees promise -and because they saw Corbyn as a "Che Guevera" type way of rebelling against the older generation.
But the biggest factor was that many people wanted to stop a hard or no deal Brexit.
An election post 2019 might be very different.0 -
Seems Leavers wont mind, then, when we go off an economic cliff.TheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
Somehow I get the feeling that people wont actually feel this way when it really happens.0 -
A fair point. I really should have just said demographic changes, as there are a whole load of underlying changes, including things like part versus full time work, retirement age, more women in the workforce etc.rcs1000 said:
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)glw said:
Both are interesting stats depending on the context, but I do think that most people tend to want to know how well off they are or should be, which is what GDP is used by the press as a sort of proxy for. GDP per head would be better for that, GDP is misleading in that case if the country only has a large economy because of immigration and a rising birth rate.HHemmelig said:
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.glw said:
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.David_Evershed said:Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
I still think that when most people hear that GDP is up what they are thinking is "how much better off am I, or should I be", not how much larger is the UK economy as a whole. It's interesting to compare the size of economies, but for policy making how well-off individuals are compared to other nations would surely be more important. And yes I realise GDP per head is in itself an over-simplification without accounting for differing demographics of comparable nations.0 -
They are like Corbynites.rottenborough said:
Seems Leavers wont mind, then, when we go off an economic cliff.TheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
Somehow I get the feeling that people wont actually feel this way when it really happens.
They'd rather trash the country for the sake of ideological purity.0 -
It is a bit of a silly question, as it doesn't mean people desire a bad outcome. And you could frame whole load of questions about historic events from fighting the second world war to women's suffrage along such emotive lines if you wanted to. But yes some of us think there are more important things than money.TheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/8923377571960954880 -
"Venezuela key opposition leaders seized after poll"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-407878300 -
Do the people at the ONS not have windows in their offices?Sean_F said:Construction output is now calculated to have risen by 20% between May 2013 and May 2017, but you would never believe it from the initial figures that the ONS released. Assuming that the figures for Q2 2017 are revised upwards, the real increase in output is probably even higher.
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Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again0 -
Entitlement freaks don't think things like this could ever affect their own wallets. After all, they're entitled.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again0 -
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.0 -
Possibly not, as to be fair the view from the HQ would be of an industrial park just outside Newport, so I could understand any reluctance to have openings on to the world.glw said:
Do the people at the ONS not have windows in their offices?Sean_F said:Construction output is now calculated to have risen by 20% between May 2013 and May 2017, but you would never believe it from the initial figures that the ONS released. Assuming that the figures for Q2 2017 are revised upwards, the real increase in output is probably even higher.
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your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling0 -
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
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But if they'd voted to stay in they wouldn't have had control; they wouldn't have had £350m a week for the NHS; they wouldn't have gone global and they would have had 80m Turks walking through an open door. It was a complete no-brainer.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.0 -
you lostwilliamglenn said:
But if they'd voted to stay in they wouldn't have had control; they wouldn't have had £350m a week for the NHS; they wouldn't have gone global and they would have had 80m Turks walking through an open door. It was a complete no-brainer.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
and you'd lose again0 -
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again0 -
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again0 -
from the people who gave us £50k uni fees and then undercut the market with cheap labour so that the loans would default youre hardly in a position to argue fiscal rectitudenichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
rectal fistitude for grads is more your space.0 -
Clearly you weren't paying attention.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!0 -
What do I do?Alanbrooke said:
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
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It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/892350642966155264
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I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a wholeTheScreamingEagles said:
Clearly you weren't paying attention.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?0 -
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.SouthamObserver said:
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.Alanbrooke said:
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
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What if May, despite all her flaws, is still the least-worst option for the Tories?
Short of getting Ruth Davidson eligible for the leadership, or getting John Major out of retirement, I genuinely don't see in terms of their personalities or "leadership skills" anyone who would be a bigger hit with the public.0 -
is it more shocking than 100,000 + premature deaths because the EU wont take action against diesel corporate fatcats ?SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
0 -
The Northern Powerhouse has gone to shit since Osborne left, the pound shop Gordon Brown and Chris Grayling are pising off the North so much.Alanbrooke said:
I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a wholeTheScreamingEagles said:
Clearly you weren't paying attention.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?
Billions can be found for Crossrail but a few million can't be found to electrify The Pennine routes.0 -
that would be all those people from the generation who voted to stay in in the seventieswilliamglenn said:
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/892350642966155264
better that a sinner repent etc.0 -
That has nothing to do with the referendum, you would get that sort of answer for almost any economic or fiscal question. It's not news that almost everybody favours other people paying more taxes, or picking up the tab.nichomar said:What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.
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If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.Allan said:
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.SouthamObserver said:
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.Alanbrooke said:
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
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Do you want to try and be a bit more melodramatic?williamglenn said:
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
I know quite a few older relatively wealthy pensioners, 70+ and whilst it's wrongto sterotype people this view of "it's worth others paying when we leave as it wont impact me" is quite typicalSouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
To be charitable, perhaps they think that it's all part of the Brexit war effort and that they have to tell pollsters that, regardless of their views, because they think it helps convince Brussels that we're really, really serious.SouthamObserver said:
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.Allan said:
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.SouthamObserver said:
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.Alanbrooke said:
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?0 -
So you believe the UK goverment post exit will not behave in the same way?Alanbrooke said:
is it more shocking than 100,000 + premature deaths because the EU wont take action against diesel corporate fatcats ?SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
0 -
just shows how little Osborne actually committed to the North - but he's safely licking his wallet in the CityTheScreamingEagles said:
The Northern Powerhouse has gone to shit since Osborne left, the pound shop Gordon Brown and Chris Grayling are pising off the North so much.Alanbrooke said:
I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a wholeTheScreamingEagles said:
Clearly you weren't paying attention.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?
Billions can be found for Crossrail but a few million can't be found to electrify The Pennine routes.0 -
To drop the knockaround for a bit, I am sure that when actually faced with the consequences a lot of respondents saying they are happy with economic Armageddon would be horrified. I am not sure how much genuine thought people give to these questions before they answer them. What is interesting, though, is that older Leavers with protected incomes are much more likely to accept the possibility of job losses and downturn than those in younger age groups.williamglenn said:
To be charitable, perhaps they think that it's all part of the Brexit war effort and that they have to tell pollsters that, regardless of their views, because they think it helps convince Brussels that we're really, really serious.SouthamObserver said:
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.Allan said:
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.SouthamObserver said:
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.Alanbrooke said:
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
0 -
it has the chance to behave differently in the EU it must fall in to line with Germanynichomar said:
So you believe the UK goverment post exit will not behave in the same way?Alanbrooke said:
is it more shocking than 100,000 + premature deaths because the EU wont take action against diesel corporate fatcats ?SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/892350642966155264
oddly the biggest shake will probably come from Trump and then the shit will hit the fan0 -
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest0 -
It's a shame James Goldsmith isn't still here so we could have a more sophisticated version of this argument put forward. As it is, I don't think anybody at all is suggesting that real Brexit would mean also leaving the WTO which would be the logical conclusion of your position.Alanbrooke said:you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest0 -
Going the opposite way now too, pound up to $1.32 now. Another 5c and it'll be back at the Feb16 low before the Brexit referendum.DavidL said:
My own guess would be that interest rates will struggle to get above 1% in the next 18 months. Inflation is already moderating and the post Brexit devaluation will start to fall out of the year on year comparisons shortly.
0 -
Well, we are about to find out if that is the case, I guess. If you are right we should expect to see rising living standards and higher paid jobs over the coming years. What timeframe do you envisage?Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
0 -
He's still Chairman and doing his best, which is a lot more than the government is doing.Alanbrooke said:just shows how little Osborne actually committed to the North - but he's safely licking his wallet in the City
0 -
Spectacularly off all known topics: I've been doing some historical research using the stunningly good facility for keyword-search of old newspapers (going right back to the eighteenth century) on findmypast.co.uk. One gentleman I'm researching is a William Tooth who lived in Sussex in the early part of the nineteenth century. He was a wealthy farmer and possibly a wine merchant. When I search on him, I'm coming across repeated cases where there is a newspaper notice like this (from the Sussex Advertiser, May 1839):
WILLIAM KENWARD'S ASSIGNMENT - Notice is hereby given that William Kenward, of Buxted, in the county of Sussex, farmer, hath by Indenture dated the 15th day of May 1839, assigned all his Estate and Effects unto William Tooth, of Mayfield, in the same county, farmer... in trust for the benefit of all the creditors of the same William Kenward, who shall execute the said Indenture, which is lying at my office for that purpose.... Benjamin Buss, Solicitor to the Trustees
Does anyone know what this signifies? Was William Tooth going around buying up the assets and liabilities of people who'd got into financial trouble, a bit like a hedge fund buying up distressed assets today?0 -
OT - QTWAIY!0
-
The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?Richard_Nabavi said:Spectacularly off all known topics: I've been doing some historical research using the stunningly good facility for keyword-search of old newspapers (going right back to the eighteenth century) on findmypast.co.uk. One gentleman I'm researching is a William Tooth who lived in Sussex in the early part of the nineteenth century. He was a wealthy farmer and possibly a wine merchant. When I search on him, I'm coming across repeated cases where there is a newspaper notice like this (from the Sussex Advertiser, May 1839):
WILLIAM KENWARD'S ASSIGNMENT - Notice is hereby given that William Kenward, of Buxted, in the county of Sussex, farmer, hath by Indenture dated the 15th day of May 1839, assigned all his Estate and Effects unto William Tooth, of Mayfield, in the same county, farmer... in trust for the benefit of all the creditors of the same William Kenward, who shall execute the said Indenture, which is lying at my office for that purpose.... Benjamin Buss, Solicitor to the Trustees
Does anyone know what this signifies? Was William Tooth going around buying up the assets and liabilities of people who'd got into financial trouble, a bit like a hedge fund buying up distressed assets today?0 -
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
0 -
-
we had this yesterday SOSouthamObserver said:
Well, we are about to find out if that is the case, I guess. If you are right we should expect to see rising living standards and higher paid jobs over the coming years. What timeframe do you envisage?Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
you ask me a question you couldnt attempt to answer yourself0 -
So a UK issue, not an EU one.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
0 -
And how will Brexit change that ?Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.0 -
Dave flounced offTheScreamingEagles said:
He's still Chairman and doing his best, which is a lot more than the government is doing.Alanbrooke said:just shows how little Osborne actually committed to the North - but he's safely licking his wallet in the City
I guess Eton dont make them like they used to0 -
Well that is not the EU to blame but British Labour laws.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.0 -
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!TheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.0 -
Of courseMikeSmithson said:
Well that is not the EU to blame but British Labour laws.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
but there is no appetite in the UK to change to EU Labour law
0 -
with the current exchange rate I'd say moving to the Netherlandslooks pretty unprofitableNigelb said:
And how will Brexit change that ?Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.0 -
"UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies"Alanbrooke said:
Of courseMikeSmithson said:
Well that is not the EU to blame but British Labour laws.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
but there is no appetite in the UK to change to EU Labour law
You are contradicting yourself.0 -
I am very happy to answer. I don't think Leaving will make any positive difference at all to living standards and wages growth. Furthermore, I think it will also lead to higher prices and deeper public spending cuts. That's why I voted Remain.Alanbrooke said:
we had this yesterday SOSouthamObserver said:
Well, we are about to find out if that is the case, I guess. If you are right we should expect to see rising living standards and higher paid jobs over the coming years. What timeframe do you envisage?Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
you ask me a question you couldnt attempt to answer yourself
0 -
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.felix said:
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!TheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.0 -
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EUSouthamObserver said:
So a UK issue, not an EU one.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?0 -
Thanks, that's a good theory, although none of the notices that I've found give any indication that there was a court order involved.ydoethur said:The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?
0 -
Of course it's crazy but it's the underlying reasoning behind this which needs to be understood. Howls of outrage just compound the problem and the country remains as divided as ever with neither side wanting to hear the others' point of view.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
I take a medium term view that after 3 to 5 years, economically it will be better for my 20+ year old children than Remain. They agree with me having studied Economics and Business.SouthamObserver said:
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.Allan said:
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.SouthamObserver said:
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.Alanbrooke said:
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?SouthamObserver said:
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
For a few years it may be a little worse for me, but if so a price worse paying in lower rental profits.0 -
Hurling wild accusations like that is just plain dumb. Many of the leavers I argued with were adamant they sought to 'save their country' for their grankids. I consider they were wrong but to call them evil is beneath contempt and goes a long way to explaining the result.williamglenn said:
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
Project Reality News
"MEPs have been warned in a behind closed-doors meeting in Brussels that three quarters of employees working at the European Medicines Agency do not want to leave Britain after its withdrawal from the bloc."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/uk-set-poach-top-eu-talent-amid-mutiny-75-tell-brussels-dont/0 -
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies for relocating to their territory post-Brexit. In fact, if the approaches we are currently receiving from various member states are anything to go by they will be offering greater incentives than they are able to currently. Of course, if we put in place protective tariffs then some businesses with mainly UK client-bases are unlikely to move, so maybe the HP sauce factory specifically might have stayed (though what would be the tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.Alanbrooke said:
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EUSouthamObserver said:
So a UK issue, not an EU one.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
0 -
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.0
-
Yes, they'll probably look at one of the lower wage European economies instead. Or are you proposing another 40% devaluation ?Alanbrooke said:
with the current exchange rate I'd say moving to the Netherlandslooks pretty unprofitableNigelb said:
And how will Brexit change that ?Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.0 -
Well, of course they don't. They have made their lives here. I imagine you would get a similar response form many of the EU nationals now thinking about leaving.Allan said:Project Reality News
"MEPs have been warned in a behind closed-doors meeting in Brussels that three quarters of employees working at the European Medicines Agency do not want to leave Britain after its withdrawal from the bloc."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/uk-set-poach-top-eu-talent-amid-mutiny-75-tell-brussels-dont/0 -
That was a claim i heard frequently, when asked to justify it no one was able to explain what it meant but it was in the daily mail. Similarly when asked what had the EU imposed on the UK they didn't like they could only come up with something about bananas.felix said:
Hurling wild accusations like that is just plain dumb. Many of the leavers I argued with were adamant they sought to 'save their country' for their grankids. I consider they were wrong but to call them evil is beneath contempt and goes a long way to explaining the result.williamglenn said:
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640 -
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.felix said:
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!TheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.0 -
On doing a little more research, farmers were specifically exempted from bankruptcy until 1861. I am wondering now if he might have been the equivalent of an independent arbiter appointed by all sides to oversee the estate of a debtor whose assets could not be liquidated. The thing that gets me is the 'for the benefit of his creditors,' which doesn't tie in with your idea of vulture capitalism.Richard_Nabavi said:
Thanks, that's a good theory, although none of the notices that I've found give any indication that there was a court order involved.ydoethur said:The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?
The only time I can think of off-hand where such an arrangement happened - although it must have happened many times - is over the Great Eastern in the 1850s where its builder, John Scott Russell, went bankrupt but due to the law could not be declared bankrupt as he wasn't within one of the qualifying professions. As a result, outside observers were appointed by his creditors to oversee the business in the hope of winding it up on reasonable terms. It seems possible Tooth was doing something similar for farmers. There might be something there to look at that could help in the Great Eastern. Try the work of George Emerson.0 -
There might be a certain logic in arguing for freedom to set higher tariff barriers post Brexit - but Leavers seem to be arguing for the opposite of that.SouthamObserver said:
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies for relocating to their territory post-Brexit. In fact, if the approaches we are currently receiving from various member states are anything to go by they will be offering greater incentives than they are able to currently. Of course, if we put in place protective tariffs then some businesses with mainly UK client-bases are unlikely to move, so maybe the HP sauce factory specifically might have stayed (though what would be the tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.Alanbrooke said:
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EUSouthamObserver said:
So a UK issue, not an EU one.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class?... about.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
corporate pork barrelling
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?0 -
Nope. She employed bullies and condoned their behaviour, I dislike people like that.felix said:
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.felix said:
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!TheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.0 -
In manufacturing lotsSouthamObserver said:
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies for relocating to their territory post-Brexit. In fact, if the approaches we are currently receiving from various member states are anything to go by they will be offering greater incentives than they are able to currently. Of course, if we put in place protective tariffs then some businesses with mainly UK client-bases are unlikely to move, so maybe the HP sauce factory specifically might have stayed (though what would be the tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.Alanbrooke said:
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EUSouthamObserver said:
So a UK issue, not an EU one.Alanbrooke said:
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .MikeSmithson said:
That doesn't follow.Alanbrooke said:
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EUSouthamObserver said:
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
your inTheScreamingEagles said:
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property anuit their bonuses.
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
Peugeot Ryton transferred to Slovakia
Bendicks mints to Germany - fucking mints !
I could bore the tits off you, but it simply illustrates the UK establishment doesnt understand the consequences of being in the EU , nor does it care and if the peasants are revolting they shouldnt be shocked
anyway I have to go see a customer about a project where Im reshoring products from china
tiocfaidh ar la. :-)0 -
My friends were blunter - they don't like the immigration and its impact on communities - in some parts of the UK they have a point. But put simply they see a whole way of life disappearing before their eyes and they don't like it. I think they are wrong but to call them 'evil' is a very clear explanation of the result.nichomar said:
That was a claim i heard frequently, when asked to justify it no one was able to explain what it meant but it was in the daily mail. Similarly when asked what had the EU imposed on the UK they didn't like they could only come up with something about bananas.felix said:
Hurling wild accusations like that is just plain dumb. Many of the leavers I argued with were adamant they sought to 'save their country' for their grankids. I consider they were wrong but to call them evil is beneath contempt and goes a long way to explaining the result.williamglenn said:
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.SouthamObserver said:
It really is a shocker. But not a surprise.nichomar said:
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.Alanbrooke said:
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his walletTheScreamingEagles said:Leavers really are economic terrorists
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
again
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/8923506429661552640
This discussion has been closed.