Mr. Gin, the chassis and aerodynamics are actually pretty good. Even with a Renault engine, they'd be competitive for points often and the odd podium, I think.
It all went wrong after 2012, when the car was unreliable but very quick. They went for a different suspension approach which lost them performance, then switched to Honda, which proved about as wise as accepting an offer of a handjob from Edward Scissorhands.
Do you think there's still the "desire" there to race and to be competitive though?
I always felt Ron Dennis himself was a large part of the "driving force" behind the motor racing operation... With him gone I could see McLarens focus going much more towards their "high-end" road car business and further away from competitive racing.
YouGov: "Older Leave voters are significantly more willing than their younger counterparts to see the country, themselves and their families be economically compromised in order to achieve Brexit."
Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.
Both are interesting stats depending on the context, but I do think that most people tend to want to know how well off they are or should be, which is what GDP is used by the press as a sort of proxy for. GDP per head would be better for that, GDP is misleading in that case if the country only has a large economy because of immigration and a rising birth rate.
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)
Mr. Gin, I agree with your implied suggestion that the rise of McLaren's road cars has coincided with the decline of its F1 fortunes and that Dennis was a fierce competitor.
However, the decline can be specifically linked to executive decisions (for 2013, I think it was, the suspension daftness, and, since then, going to Honda). Sling a Mercedes engine in this year's McLaren and Alonso would be a title contender.
They need a different engine. With that, they can compete and claw their way back up the grid.
Must say I think that is surprising because the economy came out of 2016 with a fair bit of momentum. Q1 was a serious disappointment and Q2 is not much better. I think the falling off a cliff that some were forecasting in Q4 has been deferred, possibly indefinitely, but my own expectations for this year have gone down rather than up.
YouGov: "Older Leave voters are significantly more willing than their younger counterparts to see the country, themselves and their families be economically compromised in order to achieve Brexit."
They'd be happy to invest their pension savings in Brexit Bonds to finance it then?
Mr. Gin, I agree with your implied suggestion that the rise of McLaren's road cars has coincided with the decline of its F1 fortunes and that Dennis was a fierce competitor.
However, the decline can be specifically linked to executive decisions (for 2013, I think it was, the suspension daftness, and, since then, going to Honda). Sling a Mercedes engine in this year's McLaren and Alonso would be a title contender.
They need a different engine. With that, they can compete and claw their way back up the grid.
OK, hope your right. Would be a shame to lose McLaren from the grid.
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)
Two mothers looking after each others kids for say £100 day that they pay between themselves would though. But if its their own, nil (Even though the end result is the same !)
Mr. Gin, the current financial and decision-making set up, I believe, is helpful to McLaren. Not as much as Ferrari, but they're still top end.
You are right, though, that this is a bad time and they need to get their act together. Apparently they'll make a decision on engines in September. The time for patience with Honda, I think, has ended.
Edited extra bit: incidentally, the engines do at least appear more reliable since the last update, which may open betting opportunities.
Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.
Only if you're inclined for over-nationalistic "we're at the top of the UN table" over the individual life prospects for you and your family. I'd take being an average Norwegian over an average Chinese any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.
Both are interesting stats depending on the context, but I do think that most people tend to want to know how well off they are or should be, which is what GDP is used by the press as a sort of proxy for. GDP per head would be better for that, GDP is misleading in that case if the country only has a large economy because of immigration and a rising birth rate.
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)
Mind you a higher birth rate can also be indicative of an injection of youth into the work force by immigration or otherwise which will have the opposite effect as a higher percentage of the overall population is of working age. Immigration has helped our demographics in recent years, certainly compared to many areas of Europe, and it is not a coincidence that we have record overall employment.
Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.
Only if you're inclined for over-nationalistic "we're at the top of the UN table" over the individual life prospects for you and your family. I'd take being an average Norwegian over an average Chinese any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
The polling suggests that Brexiteers are more keen on the Chinese option than the Norwegian. They're happy to trade prosperity for national pride.
Must say I think that is surprising because the economy came out of 2016 with a fair bit of momentum. Q1 was a serious disappointment and Q2 is not much better. I think the falling off a cliff that some were forecasting in Q4 has been deferred, possibly indefinitely, but my own expectations for this year have gone down rather than up.
I suspect the forecasters were overly pessimistic a year ago - and until I saw today's PMI would have said they were verging on over-optimism now - time will tell!
How long will interest rates stay low, as I'll (Hopefully) be getting a somewhat larger mortgage than my current one shortly.. To 2 yr or 5 yr..
The expectation is that interest rates will increase modestly in the next 6-9 months. IIRC that has been the expectation for about 3 or 4 years now!
My own guess would be that interest rates will struggle to get above 1% in the next 18 months. Inflation is already moderating and the post Brexit devaluation will start to fall out of the year on year comparisons shortly. An economy that is growing slightly below trend with low inflation does not seem an obvious candidate for interest rate rises.
How long will interest rates stay low, as I'll (Hopefully) be getting a somewhat larger mortgage than my current one shortly.. To 2 yr or 5 yr..
If you'd asked that question five years ago I'd have said go five year and I'd have been utterly wrong. Quite frankly I think you'd be better off flipping a coin to decide.
PMI data has been far better than official numbers, so far this year, but the latter do get revised.
I think the estimated GDP figures published each quarter are just nonsense. The last one said that Construction had fallen. I dont think the construction industry in this Country has ever been busier.
Yep, if you believed the published construction figures for the last few years our construction industry would be someone fitting double glazing to a flat in north London. It has officially been shrinking pretty much continuously with the odd revisal up again for years.
When I was down at the Test I noticed that notwithstanding these figures the south side of the Thames seems to be as covered with cranes as ever.
Construction output is now calculated to have risen by 20% between May 2013 and May 2017, but you would never believe it from the initial figures that the ONS released. Assuming that the figures for Q2 2017 are revised upwards, the real increase in output is probably even higher.
I think we should remember that no prime minister with a working majority who has held a snap election before 4 years has passed has ever won that election. We should also remember that "liking" a party leader has no bearing on his/her electoral chances. Margaret Thatcher was one of the most disliked politicians of the twentieth century and yet won three times. Professor Anthony King wrote a book showing how personalities of party leaders made little difference. Older voters were turned off by the attack on their social care and pensions. Younger voters were bribed by the tuition fees promise -and because they saw Corbyn as a "Che Guevera" type way of rebelling against the older generation.
But the biggest factor was that many people wanted to stop a hard or no deal Brexit.
Plus GDP should be quoted as GDP per head of the population.
Totally agree with that. It is a very misleading stat when population is growing rapidly.
That's a pretty daft thing to say. Of course total GDP matters more than GDP per head, unless you are seriously trying to argue that Norway is more powerful than China or the US.
Both are interesting stats depending on the context, but I do think that most people tend to want to know how well off they are or should be, which is what GDP is used by the press as a sort of proxy for. GDP per head would be better for that, GDP is misleading in that case if the country only has a large economy because of immigration and a rising birth rate.
A rising birth rate will tend to drag on nominal GDP as (a) babies tend not to work, and (b) it pulls people out of the formal workforce and into childcare. (And a mother looking after her own child generates zero dollars of GDP.)
A fair point. I really should have just said demographic changes, as there are a whole load of underlying changes, including things like part versus full time work, retirement age, more women in the workforce etc.
I still think that when most people hear that GDP is up what they are thinking is "how much better off am I, or should I be", not how much larger is the UK economy as a whole. It's interesting to compare the size of economies, but for policy making how well-off individuals are compared to other nations would surely be more important. And yes I realise GDP per head is in itself an over-simplification without accounting for differing demographics of comparable nations.
It is a bit of a silly question, as it doesn't mean people desire a bad outcome. And you could frame whole load of questions about historic events from fighting the second world war to women's suffrage along such emotive lines if you wanted to. But yes some of us think there are more important things than money.
Construction output is now calculated to have risen by 20% between May 2013 and May 2017, but you would never believe it from the initial figures that the ONS released. Assuming that the figures for Q2 2017 are revised upwards, the real increase in output is probably even higher.
Do the people at the ONS not have windows in their offices?
Construction output is now calculated to have risen by 20% between May 2013 and May 2017, but you would never believe it from the initial figures that the ONS released. Assuming that the figures for Q2 2017 are revised upwards, the real increase in output is probably even higher.
Do the people at the ONS not have windows in their offices?
Possibly not, as to be fair the view from the HQ would be of an industrial park just outside Newport, so I could understand any reluctance to have openings on to the world.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
But if they'd voted to stay in they wouldn't have had control; they wouldn't have had £350m a week for the NHS; they wouldn't have gone global and they would have had 80m Turks walking through an open door. It was a complete no-brainer.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
But if they'd voted to stay in they wouldn't have had control; they wouldn't have had £350m a week for the NHS; they wouldn't have gone global and they would have had 80m Turks walking through an open door. It was a complete no-brainer.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.
from the people who gave us £50k uni fees and then undercut the market with cheap labour so that the loans would default youre hardly in a position to argue fiscal rectitude
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
Clearly you weren't paying attention.
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah! Down with the traitors, up with the stars; While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again, Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more, Shouting the battle cry of freedom! And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
What do I do?
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
Clearly you weren't paying attention.
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah! Down with the traitors, up with the stars; While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again, Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more, Shouting the battle cry of freedom! And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a whole
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
What if May, despite all her flaws, is still the least-worst option for the Tories?
Short of getting Ruth Davidson eligible for the leadership, or getting John Major out of retirement, I genuinely don't see in terms of their personalities or "leadership skills" anyone who would be a bigger hit with the public.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
Clearly you weren't paying attention.
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah! Down with the traitors, up with the stars; While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again, Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more, Shouting the battle cry of freedom! And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a whole
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?
The Northern Powerhouse has gone to shit since Osborne left, the pound shop Gordon Brown and Chris Grayling are pising off the North so much.
Billions can be found for Crossrail but a few million can't be found to electrify The Pennine routes.
What a suprise leavers dont care if the "economy" suffers as long as it's some one elses "economy" but if it were to hurt me, well thats different.
That has nothing to do with the referendum, you would get that sort of answer for almost any economic or fiscal question. It's not news that almost everybody favours other people paying more taxes, or picking up the tab.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.
I know quite a few older relatively wealthy pensioners, 70+ and whilst it's wrongto sterotype people this view of "it's worth others paying when we leave as it wont impact me" is quite typical
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.
To be charitable, perhaps they think that it's all part of the Brexit war effort and that they have to tell pollsters that, regardless of their views, because they think it helps convince Brussels that we're really, really serious.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
Clearly you weren't paying attention.
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah! Down with the traitors, up with the stars; While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again, Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more, Shouting the battle cry of freedom! And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
I have no doubt you supported Osborne raising his personal wealth substantially, but the point of being CoE is to do it for the couintry as a whole
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?
The Northern Powerhouse has gone to shit since Osborne left, the pound shop Gordon Brown and Chris Grayling are pising off the North so much.
Billions can be found for Crossrail but a few million can't be found to electrify The Pennine routes.
just shows how little Osborne actually committed to the North - but he's safely licking his wallet in the City
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.
To be charitable, perhaps they think that it's all part of the Brexit war effort and that they have to tell pollsters that, regardless of their views, because they think it helps convince Brussels that we're really, really serious.
To drop the knockaround for a bit, I am sure that when actually faced with the consequences a lot of respondents saying they are happy with economic Armageddon would be horrified. I am not sure how much genuine thought people give to these questions before they answer them. What is interesting, though, is that older Leavers with protected incomes are much more likely to accept the possibility of job losses and downturn than those in younger age groups.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
It's a shame James Goldsmith isn't still here so we could have a more sophisticated version of this argument put forward. As it is, I don't think anybody at all is suggesting that real Brexit would mean also leaving the WTO which would be the logical conclusion of your position.
My own guess would be that interest rates will struggle to get above 1% in the next 18 months. Inflation is already moderating and the post Brexit devaluation will start to fall out of the year on year comparisons shortly.
Going the opposite way now too, pound up to $1.32 now. Another 5c and it'll be back at the Feb16 low before the Brexit referendum.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
Well, we are about to find out if that is the case, I guess. If you are right we should expect to see rising living standards and higher paid jobs over the coming years. What timeframe do you envisage?
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
Spectacularly off all known topics: I've been doing some historical research using the stunningly good facility for keyword-search of old newspapers (going right back to the eighteenth century) on findmypast.co.uk. One gentleman I'm researching is a William Tooth who lived in Sussex in the early part of the nineteenth century. He was a wealthy farmer and possibly a wine merchant. When I search on him, I'm coming across repeated cases where there is a newspaper notice like this (from the Sussex Advertiser, May 1839):
WILLIAM KENWARD'S ASSIGNMENT - Notice is hereby given that William Kenward, of Buxted, in the county of Sussex, farmer, hath by Indenture dated the 15th day of May 1839, assigned all his Estate and Effects unto William Tooth, of Mayfield, in the same county, farmer... in trust for the benefit of all the creditors of the same William Kenward, who shall execute the said Indenture, which is lying at my office for that purpose.... Benjamin Buss, Solicitor to the Trustees
Does anyone know what this signifies? Was William Tooth going around buying up the assets and liabilities of people who'd got into financial trouble, a bit like a hedge fund buying up distressed assets today?
Spectacularly off all known topics: I've been doing some historical research using the stunningly good facility for keyword-search of old newspapers (going right back to the eighteenth century) on findmypast.co.uk. One gentleman I'm researching is a William Tooth who lived in Sussex in the early part of the nineteenth century. He was a wealthy farmer and possibly a wine merchant. When I search on him, I'm coming across repeated cases where there is a newspaper notice like this (from the Sussex Advertiser, May 1839):
WILLIAM KENWARD'S ASSIGNMENT - Notice is hereby given that William Kenward, of Buxted, in the county of Sussex, farmer, hath by Indenture dated the 15th day of May 1839, assigned all his Estate and Effects unto William Tooth, of Mayfield, in the same county, farmer... in trust for the benefit of all the creditors of the same William Kenward, who shall execute the said Indenture, which is lying at my office for that purpose.... Benjamin Buss, Solicitor to the Trustees
Does anyone know what this signifies? Was William Tooth going around buying up the assets and liabilities of people who'd got into financial trouble, a bit like a hedge fund buying up distressed assets today?
The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
Well, we are about to find out if that is the case, I guess. If you are right we should expect to see rising living standards and higher paid jobs over the coming years. What timeframe do you envisage?
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
we had this yesterday SO
you ask me a question you couldnt attempt to answer yourself
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
Well that is not the EU to blame but British Labour laws.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
Well that is not the EU to blame but British Labour laws.
Of course
but there is no appetite in the UK to change to EU Labour law
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
And how will Brexit change that ?
with the current exchange rate I'd say moving to the Netherlandslooks pretty unprofitable
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
Well that is not the EU to blame but British Labour laws.
Of course
but there is no appetite in the UK to change to EU Labour law
"UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies"
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
Well, we are about to find out if that is the case, I guess. If you are right we should expect to see rising living standards and higher paid jobs over the coming years. What timeframe do you envisage?
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
we had this yesterday SO
you ask me a question you couldnt attempt to answer yourself
I am very happy to answer. I don't think Leaving will make any positive difference at all to living standards and wages growth. Furthermore, I think it will also lead to higher prices and deeper public spending cuts. That's why I voted Remain.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
So a UK issue, not an EU one.
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EU
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?
Thanks, that's a good theory, although none of the notices that I've found give any indication that there was a court order involved.
Of course it's crazy but it's the underlying reasoning behind this which needs to be understood. Howls of outrage just compound the problem and the country remains as divided as ever with neither side wanting to hear the others' point of view.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Over 50% of Leave voters in the 65+ bracket would be willing to see significant economic harm and their family members lose jobs in order to achieve Brexit. Of course, they have their incomes guaranteed.
so now you criticise the elderly for doing what you do ?
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
It is the young and the employed who will gain from fewer EU unskilled immigrants because that will push up wage levels and reduce housing costs.
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
If older Leave voters were interested in looking after the young they would not be saying that economic downturn and job losses are prices worth paying for Brexit.
I take a medium term view that after 3 to 5 years, economically it will be better for my 20+ year old children than Remain. They agree with me having studied Economics and Business. For a few years it may be a little worse for me, but if so a price worse paying in lower rental profits.
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.
Hurling wild accusations like that is just plain dumb. Many of the leavers I argued with were adamant they sought to 'save their country' for their grankids. I consider they were wrong but to call them evil is beneath contempt and goes a long way to explaining the result.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
So a UK issue, not an EU one.
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EU
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies for relocating to their territory post-Brexit. In fact, if the approaches we are currently receiving from various member states are anything to go by they will be offering greater incentives than they are able to currently. Of course, if we put in place protective tariffs then some businesses with mainly UK client-bases are unlikely to move, so maybe the HP sauce factory specifically might have stayed (though what would be the tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.
So a majority of Leavers are maniacs who would prefer to see the country impoverished and people out of work than see it prosper in the EU. And they wonder why I'm so pessimistic about Britain's prospects for the foreseeable future.
Who do you believe would do better in a general election than May?
I would like to 'skip a generation' and look at some of the younger options - someone the likes of Johnny Mercer or Esther Mc Vey. Sadly I doubt it will happen.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your sympathy for the poor plebs never seemed to be active when we were in the EU otherwise they would have voted to stay in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
And how will Brexit change that ?
with the current exchange rate I'd say moving to the Netherlandslooks pretty unprofitable
Yes, they'll probably look at one of the lower wage European economies instead. Or are you proposing another 40% devaluation ?
Well, of course they don't. They have made their lives here. I imagine you would get a similar response form many of the EU nationals now thinking about leaving.
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.
Hurling wild accusations like that is just plain dumb. Many of the leavers I argued with were adamant they sought to 'save their country' for their grankids. I consider they were wrong but to call them evil is beneath contempt and goes a long way to explaining the result.
That was a claim i heard frequently, when asked to justify it no one was able to explain what it meant but it was in the daily mail. Similarly when asked what had the EU imposed on the UK they didn't like they could only come up with something about bananas.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.
The honest answer is I don't know, but looking at the wording might he have been the receiver designated by the local courts? There was a function of some sort under the Bankruptcy Act of 1825, which was formalised and put on a national basis in 1883. Was he a JP perhaps?
Thanks, that's a good theory, although none of the notices that I've found give any indication that there was a court order involved.
On doing a little more research, farmers were specifically exempted from bankruptcy until 1861. I am wondering now if he might have been the equivalent of an independent arbiter appointed by all sides to oversee the estate of a debtor whose assets could not be liquidated. The thing that gets me is the 'for the benefit of his creditors,' which doesn't tie in with your idea of vulture capitalism.
The only time I can think of off-hand where such an arrangement happened - although it must have happened many times - is over the Great Eastern in the 1850s where its builder, John Scott Russell, went bankrupt but due to the law could not be declared bankrupt as he wasn't within one of the qualifying professions. As a result, outside observers were appointed by his creditors to oversee the business in the hope of winding it up on reasonable terms. It seems possible Tooth was doing something similar for farmers. There might be something there to look at that could help in the Great Eastern. Try the work of George Emerson.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class?... about.
your in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
So a UK issue, not an EU one.
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EU
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies for relocating to their territory post-Brexit. In fact, if the approaches we are currently receiving from various member states are anything to go by they will be offering greater incentives than they are able to currently. Of course, if we put in place protective tariffs then some businesses with mainly UK client-bases are unlikely to move, so maybe the HP sauce factory specifically might have stayed (though what would be the tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.
There might be a certain logic in arguing for freedom to set higher tariff barriers post Brexit - but Leavers seem to be arguing for the opposite of that.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
The polling is mad but save us your faux concern for ordinary folk please. People tend to look after themselves and the entitled classes are particularly good at this - demanding the that the 'poor plebs' subsidise their privately educated hothoused thicko offspring at university while lapping up universal benefits to underpay their foreign nannies and cleaners!
I'm a patrician one nation Tory, never hidden that, so you're wrong.
Hmmm methinks the sore spot has been well and truly hit. You seem be strangely attracted though to the 'patrician wing' of the party when it comes to leadership. for all her faults May is basically a one nation Tory too - I guess she went to the wrong school.
Nope. She employed bullies and condoned their behaviour, I dislike people like that.
Middle class entitlement freak worries about his wallet
again
Middle class? How dare you madam! I did a quiz recently which said I was upper class. Plus what entitlements?
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
your in
corporate pork barrelling
If Leave voters were concerned about the incomes of the poor they would not be prepared to accept economic harm and job losses in order to achieve Brexit.
you appear to ignore that for many that was the reality of the EU
industries generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
That doesn't follow.
Round the corner from one of my factories was the old HP sauce factory .
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property anuit their bonuses.
So a UK issue, not an EU one.
as you keep reminding me we are still part of the EU
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
I find it hard to believe that the Dutch or any other EU member state will penalise UK companies for relocating to their territory post-Brexit. In fact, if the approaches we are currently receiving from various member states are anything to go by they will be offering greater incentives than they are able to currently. Of course, if we put in place protective tariffs then some businesses with mainly UK client-bases are unlikely to move, so maybe the HP sauce factory specifically might have stayed (though what would be the tariff on HP sauce?), but I wonder how many businesses like that have relocated in that way over the years.
In manufacturing lots
Peugeot Ryton transferred to Slovakia Bendicks mints to Germany - fucking mints !
I could bore the tits off you, but it simply illustrates the UK establishment doesnt understand the consequences of being in the EU , nor does it care and if the peasants are revolting they shouldnt be shocked
anyway I have to go see a customer about a project where Im reshoring products from china
The age old story of the old sacrificing their children for their ideas. Evil.
Hurling wild accusations like that is just plain dumb. Many of the leavers I argued with were adamant they sought to 'save their country' for their grankids. I consider they were wrong but to call them evil is beneath contempt and goes a long way to explaining the result.
That was a claim i heard frequently, when asked to justify it no one was able to explain what it meant but it was in the daily mail. Similarly when asked what had the EU imposed on the UK they didn't like they could only come up with something about bananas.
My friends were blunter - they don't like the immigration and its impact on communities - in some parts of the UK they have a point. But put simply they see a whole way of life disappearing before their eyes and they don't like it. I think they are wrong but to call them 'evil' is a very clear explanation of the result.
Comments
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/britain-nation-brexit-extremists/
I always felt Ron Dennis himself was a large part of the "driving force" behind the motor racing operation... With him gone I could see McLarens focus going much more towards their "high-end" road car business and further away from competitive racing.
Maybe I'm wrong though?
However, the decline can be specifically linked to executive decisions (for 2013, I think it was, the suspension daftness, and, since then, going to Honda). Sling a Mercedes engine in this year's McLaren and Alonso would be a title contender.
They need a different engine. With that, they can compete and claw their way back up the grid.
You are right, though, that this is a bad time and they need to get their act together. Apparently they'll make a decision on engines in September. The time for patience with Honda, I think, has ended.
Edited extra bit: incidentally, the engines do at least appear more reliable since the last update, which may open betting opportunities.
I'd take being an average Norwegian over an average Chinese any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
How long will interest rates stay low, as I'll (Hopefully) be getting a somewhat larger mortgage than my current one shortly..
To 2 yr or 5 yr..
My own guess would be that interest rates will struggle to get above 1% in the next 18 months. Inflation is already moderating and the post Brexit devaluation will start to fall out of the year on year comparisons shortly. An economy that is growing slightly below trend with low inflation does not seem an obvious candidate for interest rate rises.
https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/status/892337757196095488
We should also remember that "liking" a party leader has no bearing on his/her electoral chances. Margaret Thatcher was one of the most disliked politicians of the twentieth century and yet won three times. Professor Anthony King wrote a book showing how personalities of party leaders made little difference.
Older voters were turned off by the attack on their social care and pensions.
Younger voters were bribed by the tuition fees promise -and because they saw Corbyn as a "Che Guevera" type way of rebelling against the older generation.
But the biggest factor was that many people wanted to stop a hard or no deal Brexit.
An election post 2019 might be very different.
Somehow I get the feeling that people wont actually feel this way when it really happens.
I still think that when most people hear that GDP is up what they are thinking is "how much better off am I, or should I be", not how much larger is the UK economy as a whole. It's interesting to compare the size of economies, but for policy making how well-off individuals are compared to other nations would surely be more important. And yes I realise GDP per head is in itself an over-simplification without accounting for differing demographics of comparable nations.
They'd rather trash the country for the sake of ideological purity.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-40787830
again
I can weather Brexit, it's the poor plebs who can't cope I worry about.
corporate pork barrelling
and you'd lose again
rectal fistitude for grads is more your space.
I was a strong supporter of George Osborne's policy to keep on raising the personal substantially.
Look on the bright side, your economic terrorism will ultimately see the UK rejoin the EU, replete with membership of the Euro and Schengen.
The Union forever! Hurrah, boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors, up with the stars;
While we rally round the flag, boys, we rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
We are springing to the call for three hundred thousand more,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
And we'll fill the vacant ranks of our brothers gone before
Shouting the battle cry of freedom!
If lots of old people with protected incomes are happy to inflict harm on the economy because they do not like foreigners there is very little I can do. I can note, however, that they will not be affected. It's the young and the employed - who largely voted Remain - who will suffer the consequences.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/892350642966155264
how's that northern powerhouse coming along ?
It is the older people that own properties especially BTL that will lose out from fewer EU unskilled immigrants.
In many respects people voted against their best economic interest. Ironic. Maybe "gaining control" mattered more to the older voters?
Short of getting Ruth Davidson eligible for the leadership, or getting John Major out of retirement, I genuinely don't see in terms of their personalities or "leadership skills" anyone who would be a bigger hit with the public.
Billions can be found for Crossrail but a few million can't be found to electrify The Pennine routes.
better that a sinner repent etc.
industries closed as their work was sent overseas to boosts corporate profits and the folks in London rubbed their hands for the fees it generated
the EU worked for a select few and stuffed the rest
oddly the biggest shake will probably come from Trump and then the shit will hit the fan
What I don't understand, though, is why this can happen in other EU member states right now, but not in the UK.
WILLIAM KENWARD'S ASSIGNMENT - Notice is hereby given that William Kenward, of Buxted, in the county of Sussex, farmer, hath by Indenture dated the 15th day of May 1839, assigned all his Estate and Effects unto William Tooth, of Mayfield, in the same county, farmer... in trust for the benefit of all the creditors of the same William Kenward, who shall execute the said Indenture, which is lying at my office for that purpose.... Benjamin Buss, Solicitor to the Trustees
Does anyone know what this signifies? Was William Tooth going around buying up the assets and liabilities of people who'd got into financial trouble, a bit like a hedge fund buying up distressed assets today?
The factory was closed and production shifted to the "low cost" Netherlands everybody lost their job.
For Heinz it was easy to close a UK factory, sell the property and move production. UK workers were dead easy to get rid of - no social plan needed, no courts involved no heavy premiums for sacking them.
UK law doesnt have the worker protection of most mainstream European economies as a result UK workers will always lose out in an economy which is based round German and French labour laws but where multinats can play freebooting to suit their bonuses.
you ask me a question you couldnt attempt to answer yourself
I guess Eton dont make them like they used to
but there is no appetite in the UK to change to EU Labour law
You are contradicting yourself.
so an EU issue
large single market so what's the hit for moving ?
For a few years it may be a little worse for me, but if so a price worse paying in lower rental profits.
"MEPs have been warned in a behind closed-doors meeting in Brussels that three quarters of employees working at the European Medicines Agency do not want to leave Britain after its withdrawal from the bloc."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/01/uk-set-poach-top-eu-talent-amid-mutiny-75-tell-brussels-dont/
The only time I can think of off-hand where such an arrangement happened - although it must have happened many times - is over the Great Eastern in the 1850s where its builder, John Scott Russell, went bankrupt but due to the law could not be declared bankrupt as he wasn't within one of the qualifying professions. As a result, outside observers were appointed by his creditors to oversee the business in the hope of winding it up on reasonable terms. It seems possible Tooth was doing something similar for farmers. There might be something there to look at that could help in the Great Eastern. Try the work of George Emerson.
Peugeot Ryton transferred to Slovakia
Bendicks mints to Germany - fucking mints !
I could bore the tits off you, but it simply illustrates the UK establishment doesnt understand the consequences of being in the EU , nor does it care and if the peasants are revolting they shouldnt be shocked
anyway I have to go see a customer about a project where Im reshoring products from china
tiocfaidh ar la. :-)