politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB YouGov lead back up to 8pc but Dave retains his 11pc “B
This morning’s YouGov poll for the Sun suggests that yesterday’s 4% CON deficit might have been a blip though all changes are within the margin of error.
Comments
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Yorkcity and others
Please don't discuss Andy Coulson or phone hacking directly or indirectly.
Anyone violating this rule, are likely to find their posting privileges revoked until after the conclusion of the phone hacking trials.
Which are expected to conclude next April.
Please remember that.
The moderating team are taking a zero tolerance approach to any comment that violates the wording and or spirit of this ruling.0 -
Given that there's so much polling, are there any apparent differences between the phone- and online-?
My memory recalls that there was a split in the very final polls, but I'm talking about taking more than a single data point.
(Also, I know the data is out there but would need some farming but I'm interested in how the Best PM values have changed over the parliament and possibly compared to 2005-2010?)0 -
Andrew Gimson @AndrewGimson 23h
John Major was right: savers are being robbed by the Government: my @ConHome piece http://bit.ly/17LwAHr0 -
FPT:
Unless any other evidence emerges it looks like the Flowers mess was made in the COOP and presided over by the FSA - I very much doubt there was any direct Labour involvement other than to say "nice to meet you again" when introduced to the new COOP Chairman.....the Labour head of Bradford Council might have done his colleagues a favour had he been more forthcoming about Flowers unsuitability for high office - but that buck appears to stop with him.CD13 said:
The dangerous bit would be if the inquiry shows that Labour helped to appoint a nincompoop to a top job just because he was one of theirs. It may happen with all parties but Labour seem to corner the market in this sort of thing.
None of this alters the politics which is that the Tories will seek to extract maximum political embarrassment for their opponents from this mess - just as a Labour would do.
It is hypocritical to suggest otherwise.
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Oh look the +\- change is back ; )0
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I don't think VI is moving in any direction at the moment, bar a bit of "noise" or churn or random error. All quite settled.
Last thread was funny. If a connection between Flowers and Falkirk is uncovered, will PBTories implode?
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Moderated
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FPT, amended to ensure compliant with site rules
The Flowers story is essentially a very sad story about a very personal fall from grace. Nothing that has been revealed so far really implicates the Labour leadership and unless something emerges which very clearly fixes Miliband and Balls with knowledge of Flowers' misconduct (and I am not referring here to his earlier public misdemeanour) and/or their personal intervention in his appointment by the Co-op, I don't think this story will be particularly damaging to Labour.
Nor, on the facts of the story alone, should it be. It is too much of a stretch to blame party leaders for the personal failings of local councillors or people they appoint to advisory boards or accept donations from (or people connected to companies they accept donations from, to be accurate).
However, it is difficult to have any sympathy for Labour. [In the past t]hey have screamed for public inquiries, resignations and admissions of terrible judgement. The parallels are clear. Schadenfeude. As some of us said at the time, Labour should have been much more circumspect in their previous criticism. Perhaps this will give them cause for thought and instil some much-needed humility. Perhaps.
Perhaps more significantly, there is now a theme emerging of Labour struggling to accept their own inadequacies. There is no question that if the facts of Falkirk and the Co-op were reversed, Labour would be having a field day. It would be as clear as day to them that the matters should be investigated, publicly, and the politicians held to account. It is not sufficient to say that this is just politics, and all politicians are opportunists, though that is true to an extent; we are all inclined to be more forgiving of ourselves and more lenient on those we are close to. If Labour lived up to the values they claim to espouse they would be accepting the need for both matters to be investigated, urgently and publicly. Otherwise the charge of hypocrisy weighs heavily on them.
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R4 has been leading on this:
Undercover soldiers 'killed unarmed civilians in Belfast'
Soldiers from an undercover unit used by the British army in Northern Ireland killed unarmed civilians, former members have told BBC One's Panorama.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-249874650 -
Moderated0
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Nick Pallmer it does not matter that they are not impacting on voting intention, the corrosion in public
trust in all parties and major institutions is deeply damaging for politics and pubic life as a whole.
I am intrested in politics, but I have been sickened by the MP expenses , bankers, how leaders in all walks of business never take resposibility then walk away, with large amounts of cash, destroying ordinary people jobs in the process on many occasions.
The cynicism is growing everywhere.
Politicians like Michael Heseline who acted to stop innocent people going to jail regarding the Scott enquiry even though it would embarrass his own government, seem a long way from todays standards.0 -
MickPork
1) If anyone violates the site rules, don't respond to that post
2) Any more attacks on the moderators/criticism of moderators and your posting privileges will be revoked.
Please confirm you understand.0 -
If the incumbent PM doesn't lead the "best PM" question, he is toast.
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Lol! Just 5 or 6 posts after the moderator clearly stated the rules again too, what are people thinking?!0
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Sleaze did for Major in 1997 despite the rosy economic environment and prospects. People were sick and tired of the Tories regardless of GDP or the balance of payments.Yorkcity said:
Nick Pallmer it does not matter that they are not impacting on voting intention, the corrosion in public
trust in all parties and major institutions is deeply damaging for politics and pubic life as a whole.
I am intrested in politics, but I have been sickened by the MP expenses , bankers, how leaders in all walks of business never take resposibility then walk away, with large amounts of cash, destroying ordinary people jobs in the process on many occasions.
The cynicism is growing everywhere.
Politicians like Michael Heseline who acted to stop innocent people going to jail regarding the Scott enquiry even though it would embarrass his own government, seem a long way from todays standards.
Which is to be expected; after several terms any govt is bound to fray at the edges, cross the line here and there. Power corrupts, etc...
But this wasn't the case in 2010 - economic incompetence by the incumbents, balanced by insufficient detoxification of the Cons brought us the coalition.
The interesting thing here therefore is that only now is the sleaze emerging about the last Labour govt. Instead of it getting washed up in the general GE2010 defeat, it's front and centre of campaigning now. For Lab's GE2015 prospects, therefore, it couldn't have come at a worse time.
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Nah, they fixed all that and everything is fine now.Yorkcity said:trust in all parties and major institutions is deeply damaging for politics and pubic life as a whole.
I am intrested in politics, but I have been sickened by the MP expenses , bankers, how leaders in all walks of business never take resposibility then walk away, with large amounts of cash, destroying ordinary people jobs in the process on many occasions.
The cynicism is growing everywhere.Daily Mail Online
See? Position of great moral authority and all that.
£89m! MPs' expenses soar by more than a quarter in just a year
Despite the expenses scandal three years ago, MPs claimed £89.4million last year in taxpayer funding for accommodation, travel, staffing and other costs.
Amy. @thisisamy_
Here's a list of the 169 MPs who voted yes to #bedroomtax & claimed up to 25k EACH in accommodation expenses. http://agirlcalledjack.com/2013/11/15/exposed-the-169-mps-who-voted-yes-to-the-bedroom-tax-after-claiming-up-to-25k-in-accommodation-expenses/ …
WOWcampaign @WOWpetition
New expenses scandal as one in three #MPs use taxpayers' cash to rent constituency bases - from their own parties http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-expenses-scandal-one-three-2792913#.UoVEePjFHMA.twitter … …
jardinatura.es @jardinatura 1h
David Cameron: Stop the 11% pay rise for MPs' salaries http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/david-cameron-stop-the-11-pay-rise-for-mps-salaries?share_id=lywvALFAbl&utm_campaign=twitter_link_action_box&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=share_petition … via @change0 -
1) I do understandPBModerator said:MickPork
1) If anyone violates the site rules, don't respond to that post
2) Any more attacks on the moderators/criticism of moderators and your posting privileges will be revoked.
Please confirm you understand.
2) There have been no attacks.0 -
UK car production in October rose at the fastest pace so far this year, the industry's trade body has said.
The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said 160,854 cars were built in the UK last month, up 17% from October 2012.
It said the change represented the biggest year-on-year increase to date in 2013.
The growth was largely driven by demand for cars to sell in Britain rather than for export, the SMMT said.
UK demand for new cars has been helped by cheap finance deals and rising consumer confidence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-250303720 -
There have been in the past, and there was criticism earlier.Mick_Pork said:
1) I do understandPBModerator said:MickPork
1) If anyone violates the site rules, don't respond to that post
2) Any more attacks on the moderators/criticism of moderators and your posting privileges will be revoked.
Please confirm you understand.
2) There have been no attacks.
You seem to keep on forgetting that the moderators aren't on the site 24/7
In future if you violate this, you may find all your posts automatically go into the pending folder, and released as and when the moderators are on site.
Then you may finally appreciate that the moderators are not on 24/7 pressing f5.0 -
If you made tim a moderator then there would bePBModerator said:
Then you may finally appreciate that the moderators are not on 24/7 pressing f5.0 -
"Please don't discuss Andy Coulson or phone hacking directly or indirectly."
Should we not apply the same rules to the Flowers story?
Can't he also sue for libel?0 -
CV and Flockers,
You're right, it's getting publicity because it's a dream story for the media. We all know people can be appointed because of their connections and if the situation were reversed, as it easily could have been, Ed would be all over the airwaves, frothing at the mouth.
Slightly off-topic, but when I moved from the pharmaceutical industry to the civil service, I noticed one particular change that I thought odd. There was a push to promote more women owing to the disparity in the ratios at the top. I met many very talented women there, yet they nearly all languished in obscurity. Most of the women promoted were the ... how shall I put this gently .. not the brightest. I thought it was deliberate for a while, but with hindsight, I think it was an example of group-think.
They tended to had similar social and political views and that took precedence over competency. The males may have been equally useless in many cases but were a more mixed bunch.
I'm no sociologist but maybe with women being such strange, exotic creatures, they preferred to have elements of familiarity to naked brain power.
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Hmn. I'm not sure. For one thing, the "last Labour Government" won't be running for election in 2015. I think a lot of toxicity, such as it was, went with Brown and Blair. Of course, this kind of stuff excites the Tory core, but the Tories need to broaden their appeal to stand any chance.TOPPING said:
Sleaze did for Major in 1997 despite the rosy economic environment and prospects. People were sick and tired of the Tories regardless of GDP or the balance of payments.Yorkcity said:
Nick Pallmer it does not matter that they are not impacting on voting intention, the corrosion in public
trust in all parties and major institutions is deeply damaging for politics and pubic life as a whole.
I am intrested in politics, but I have been sickened by the MP expenses , bankers, how leaders in all walks of business never take resposibility then walk away, with large amounts of cash, destroying ordinary people jobs in the process on many occasions.
The cynicism is growing everywhere.
Politicians like Michael Heseline who acted to stop innocent people going to jail regarding the Scott enquiry even though it would embarrass his own government, seem a long way from todays standards.
Which is to be expected; after several terms any govt is bound to fray at the edges, cross the line here and there. Power corrupts, etc...
But this wasn't the case in 2010 - economic incompetence by the incumbents, balanced by insufficient detoxification of the Cons brought us the coalition.
The interesting thing here therefore is that only now is the sleaze emerging about the last Labour govt. Instead of it getting washed up in the general GE2010 defeat, it's front and centre of campaigning now. For Lab's GE2015 prospects, therefore, it couldn't have come at a worse time.
And suffice to say the broader electorate see quite enough mud and toxicity sticking to the Tories to cancel out any that comes Labour's way.0 -
Topping
No single party is sleaze free.
However I agree if the cynicism effects voter turnout at the GE in 2015, it will disproportionately effect Labour voters,especially the ones who believe in more ethics regarding how business is conducted.0 -
Interesting expense claims history by Rev Flowers, according to Channel 4. http://www.channel4.com/news/coop-labour-flowers-co-operative-miliband-bank
Rogue reverend, a loner, no-one knew anything, nothing to see...
Labour sets up FSA, which is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. The whole Flowers thing shows up the failings of Brown's regulatory empire, the laziness of financial journalism, and Nelsonian blindness at The Co-Op. CRB checks:- only for the little people who work with children not politicians.
As for all the crap about sleeze in Major's government, it is a source of amazement that so little shit stuck to the fans from 1997.0 -
There was criticism of a poster earlier. Not the same thing.PBModerator said:MickPork There have been in the past, and there was criticism earlier.
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The online polls generally produce higher Ukip shares with commensurate reduction in "don't knows". Don't seem to impact any other partiesBannedInParis said:Given that there's so much polling, are there any apparent differences between the phone- and online-?
My memory recalls that there was a split in the very final polls, but I'm talking about taking more than a single data point.
(Also, I know the data is out there but would need some farming but I'm interested in how the Best PM values have changed over the parliament and possibly compared to 2005-2010?)0 -
He can, butRoger said:"Please don't discuss Andy Coulson or phone hacking directly or indirectly."
Should we not apply the same rules to the Flowers story?
Can't he also sue for libel?
1) There's no current ongoing trial with Flowers
2) There's no blackout on mentioning Flowers in the House of Commons
3) Comments that have been perceived to be problematic re Flowers have been removed and posters warned.
4) If posts go too far re Flowers, we will review the site policy on Flowers.0 -
Must admit, "Miliband defends Labour over Flowers" isn't a good headline for Labour.
Whenever a politician / party defends themselves, the default public assumption is always a vague sense that they've been up to no good, no matter what the party or details of the issue.0 -
Oh dear.
Sticking to a clear and coherent message seems to be beyond the incompetent fop's abilities.Rowena Mason @rowenamason 4m
Nick Clegg on green levies: "It isn't *all* crap." He says Sun story not a fair reflection of Cameron's views.0 -
Time will tell whether this is the outlier - an 8% lead and Labour on 40% have been in the minority recently0
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Oborne not pulling any punches
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10462871/Its-no-coincidence-the-MPs-found-guilty-of-fiddling-are-all-Labour.html
"It’s no coincidence the MPs found guilty of fiddling are all Labour
The party may take the moral high ground, but lying and cheating are deep in its DNA"
"I believe that it is Labour’s belief in its own higher morality – what Bertrand Russell called the “superior virtue of the oppressed” – that has led to its downfall. "0 -
Flowers has not denied any charges and has infact apologised for the antics in the Mail on Sunday scoop.
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How is that possible, I thought Parliamentary privilege prevented such injunctions affecting speeches in the Commons and Lords.PBModerator said:
2) There's no blackout on mentioning Flowers in the House of Commons0 -
Easy solution, hire tim ;-)PBModerator said:
Then you may finally appreciate that the moderators are not on 24/7 pressing f5.
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Taylor of Warwick, Hanningfield?TGOHF said:Oborne not pulling any punches
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10462871/Its-no-coincidence-the-MPs-found-guilty-of-fiddling-are-all-Labour.html
"It’s no coincidence the MPs found guilty of fiddling are all Labour
The party may take the moral high ground, but lying and cheating are deep in its DNA"
"I believe that it is Labour’s belief in its own higher morality – what Bertrand Russell called the “superior virtue of the oppressed” – that has led to its downfall. "0 -
No, you're right that it's important, but there have been so many posts about the party impact that I thought it was also worth discussing why it's not rubbing off on voting intention.Yorkcity said:
Nick Pallmer it does not matter that they are not impacting on voting intention, the corrosion in public
trust in all parties and major institutions is deeply damaging for politics and pubic life as a whole.
JJ, i've forgotten how to read PMs here - probably best to email me on nickmp1 at aol dot com.
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Not MPs are theyLife_ina_market_town said:
Taylor of Warwick, Hanningfield?TGOHF said:Oborne not pulling any punches
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10462871/Its-no-coincidence-the-MPs-found-guilty-of-fiddling-are-all-Labour.html
"It’s no coincidence the MPs found guilty of fiddling are all Labour
The party may take the moral high ground, but lying and cheating are deep in its DNA"
"I believe that it is Labour’s belief in its own higher morality – what Bertrand Russell called the “superior virtue of the oppressed” – that has led to its downfall. "0 -
This Mail on Sunday scoop to be precise.TGOHF said:Flowers has not denied any charges and has infact apologised for the antics in the Mail on Sunday scoop.
Nick Sutton @suttonnick 16 Nov
Mail on Sunday front page - "Crystal meth shame of bank chief" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers pic.twitter.com/Hw7xIP1ZDw0 -
Sub-judice still applies to the House of CommonsRobD said:
How is that possible, I thought Parliamentary privilege prevented such injunctions affecting speeches in the Commons and Lords.PBModerator said:
2) There's no blackout on mentioning Flowers in the House of Commons
The House of Commons adopted its current sub judice rule (see p 19) by resolution in
2001 following the Report of the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege in 1999. The
House of Lords has a parallel resolution. The rule prevents reference being made in
proceedings in the Chamber or in committees to cases which are active in the courts (as
defined in the resolution). The rule does not apply when the House is considering primary
or secondary legislation, and the Chair has discretion to disapply it on other occasions
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmproced/125/125.pdf0 -
It also plays into the Cons "watermelon" green on the outside red on the inside charge that defines much criticism of left environmental policies: running a bank "ethically" is incompatible with running a bank well.Yorkcity said:Topping
No single party is sleaze free.
However I agree if the cynicism effects voter turnout at the GE in 2015, it will disproportionately effect Labour voters,especially the ones who believe in more ethics regarding how business is conducted.0 -
Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
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Food for thought - A Labour majority is the same price as an England win in the test. Both 2.66.
No idea how to rad the first test at the moment. England got off to a great start but we are batting second, Cook is very defensive minded and there could be some weather.
Aus +0.00
Eng +9.79
Draw -5.90
Stats suggest the draw price is too short, but something niggles that it isn't so I'm on a very small (But green) book at the moment.
I was anticipating Aus to be on maybe 270-5 when I woke up. Annoyed I didn't take more of the 6.0 on offer for England !0 -
"A Labour majority is the same price as an England win in the test"
Sounds about right. If I was forced to put my house on one or the other, I'd struggle to choose.0 -
Those poor grannies
MaggieLavan @MaggieLavan 15m
Last year the Co-op paid £64million in dividends to its members. This year there will be no dividend. Labour will still get it's donation0 -
Business activity in the eurozone’s two largest economies is diverging sharply, with France’s private sector contracting after two months of growth while in Germany it accelerated to a 10-month high, according to a survey.
Employment levels and order books in France both fell at the sharpest rate since May, underlining the weakness of the recovery in the eurozone’s second-biggest economy.
The French economy shrank by 0.1 per cent in the third quarter and Markit Economics, which compiles the survey, said Thursday’s data suggest the country could fall back into recession.
www.ft.com0 -
The effect of Article IX of the Bill of Rights is that an who MP contravenes the sub judice rule may be punished under the rules of the House, but in no other way. A publisher of a website on the other hand is bound by the strict liability rule and may be committed to prison for contempt.PBModerator said:Sub-judice still applies to the House of Commons
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Big advantage of the England bet is you get the money back this weekend. With the Labour bet you never see it again.Pulpstar said:Food for thought - A Labour majority is the same price as an England win in the test. Both 2.66.
No idea how to rad the first test at the moment. England got off to a great start but we are batting second, Cook is very defensive minded and there could be some weather.
Aus +0.00
Eng +9.79
Draw -5.90
Stats suggest the draw price is too short, but something niggles that it isn't so I'm on a very small (But green) book at the moment.
I was anticipating Aus to be on maybe 270-5 when I woke up. Annoyed I didn't take more of the 6.0 on offer for England !
Am
Oz +2
Eng +102
Draw - 104
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Tele:
Royal Mail share sale did not contribute to improved public finances
09.49 Last week that ONS decided that the £2bn netted by the government for selling its 60pc stake in Royal Mail should not reduce headline government borrowing- meaning the public finances improved even without this boost.
So where does the cash go ?0 -
I was just about to say that. Pop down the bookies and you can get a longer price on Man Utd winning the Premier League than a Tory majority! And roughly the same as Chelsea or Arsenal.Pulpstar said:
CON majority is the biggest mispricing of the 6 prices on offer. (Too short still)R0berts said:"A Labour majority is the same price as an England win in the test"
Sounds about right. If I was forced to put my house on one or the other, I'd struggle to choose.0 -
Will it come out of the net cash requirement?TGOHF said:Tele:
Royal Mail share sale did not contribute to improved public finances
09.49 Last week that ONS decided that the £2bn netted by the government for selling its 60pc stake in Royal Mail should not reduce headline government borrowing- meaning the public finances improved even without this boost.
So where does the cash go ?0 -
there is a lot of migration from the countryside to the cities which pushes up demand for intensive housing plus the model that much of China is copying in several aspects is HK/Sing where such housing densities exist and, to the PRC, are the symbol of an advanced society.RobD said:
Surely that is all just Hong Kong. Why would Chinese cities in general need to be such high density?SeanT said:Extraordinary photos capturing the intensity and density of Chinese cities.
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"Gloria De Piero @GloriaDePieroMP 9m
As an ex journo I'm struggling to work out why the Labour Party is being blamed for regulatory failures at the co-op bank."
FSA set up by Brown, fitness of Labour Councillors for the job.0 -
I'm on Man Utd to win the prem - Its one of those looked good but gone a bit bad but could be ok again types.R0berts said:
I was just about to say that. Pop down the bookies and you can get a longer price on Man Utd winning the Premier League than a Tory majority! And roughly the same as Chelsea or Arsenal.Pulpstar said:
CON majority is the biggest mispricing of the 6 prices on offer. (Too short still)R0berts said:"A Labour majority is the same price as an England win in the test"
Sounds about right. If I was forced to put my house on one or the other, I'd struggle to choose.0 -
Looks like the £10Bn less for the year looks about right...
David Smith @dsmitheconomics 4m
Public sector borrowing in October marginally lower than a year ago but running total April-October is £5.8bn down: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_335634.pdf …0 -
TGOHF said:
Tele:
Royal Mail share sale did not contribute to improved public finances
09.49 Last week that ONS decided that the £2bn netted by the government for selling its 60pc stake in Royal Mail should not reduce headline government borrowing- meaning the public finances improved even without this boost.
So where does the cash go ?
It reduces total debt but not current borrowing - as its a non-recurring item. It does however reduce the net cash requirement. Interestingly the share transfer to employees actually counted against government borrowing, increasing PSNB by £331m.
Tax receipts continuing to look good and looking at the PSNB trend, we might even see sub £90bn in borrowing.0 -
Any revisions to previous borrowing figures?0
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PoliticsHome @politicshome 23m
Nick Clegg says #snowden leaks "chip away at the bedrock of public support for these agencies and that’s a dangerous thing". #callclegg
PoliticsHome @politicshome 26m
Nick Clegg says surveillance powers are now "on a scale which was unimaginable even a few years ago". #callclegg0 -
Grandiose said:
Any revisions to previous borrowing figures?
The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) produces medium term forecasts of the public finances twice a year (normally in March and December). The latest published forecasts were that:-
• PSNB ex in 2011/12 would be £126.0 billion;
• PSNB ex in 2012/13 would be £86.5 billion;
• PSNB ex in 2012/13 after removing the impacts of the transfer of the Royal Mail Pension Plan
and the transfers from the Asset Purchase Facility would be £120.9 billion;
OBR will publish their revised forecasts for the fiscal year 2013/14 on December 5th 2013.
This statistical bulletin reports the latest estimates of outturn as:
• PSNB ex in 2011/12 was £118.5 billion;
• PSNB ex in 2012/13 was £80.6 billion;
• PSNB ex in 2012/13 after removing the impacts of the transfer of the Royal Mail Pension Plan
and the transfers from the Asset Purchase Facility was £115.0 billion;0 -
Golly! Some polling evidence.
Felicity Morse @FelicityMorse 12 Nov
LOL
Ok Londoners think MPs fiddling their expenses is worse than smoking crack (YouGov) pic.twitter.com/C2jbdGVKaD0 -
Not all Chinese cities are the same - I remember Xian as being the worst in terms of really shocking visible pollution. Kunming and alot of south china on the other hand is quite pleasent.
Chengdu somewhere in the middle:
Chengdu: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=chengdu&hl=en&ll=30.664849,103.985848&spn=1.020595,1.234589&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=59.206892,79.013672&hnear=Chengdu,+Sichuan,+China&t=m&z=10&layer=c&cbll=30.664849,103.985848&cbp=12,0,,0,0&photoid=po-26332636
Kunming: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=kunming&hl=en&ll=24.977344,102.712555&spn=0.486734,1.234589&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=59.206892,79.013672&hnear=Kunming,+Yunnan,+China&t=m&z=10&layer=c&cbll=24.977077,102.712008&cbp=11,0,,0,0&photoid=po-25824994
Xian - And this is exactly how I remember it: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=xian+china&hl=en&ll=34.271971,108.996735&spn=0.443723,1.234589&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=59.206892,79.013672&hnear=Xi'an,+Shaanxi,+China&t=m&z=10&layer=c&cbll=34.271669,108.996756&cbp=11,0,,0,0&photoid=po-285671430 -
I visited Xi'an to see the terracotta army, left as soon as I'd seen it and headed back to Beijing which seemed like the greenest place on the planet after Xi'an ^^;;;;;;0
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Schenzhen is very similar. Makes Hull look like St Tropez.SeanT said:
Quite a few Chinese cities are like that (though Hong Kong and Macau must be the most extreme). Here's a pic of Guangzhou:RobD said:
Surely that is all just Hong Kong. Why would Chinese cities in general need to be such high density?SeanT said:Extraordinary photos capturing the intensity and density of Chinese cities.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Guangzhou-shopping-street-0539.jpg0 -
That reminds me of the not-missed Kowloon Walled City:SeanT said:Extraordinary photos capturing the intensity and density of Chinese cities.
twitter.com/Travel__PR/status/403459012575772672/photo/1
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/11/20/i-wish-these-buildings-were-photoshopped-but-theyre-not/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City
http://www.archdaily.com/361831/0 -
theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/08/26-years-of-growth-shanghai-then-and-now/100569/
Shanghai Pudong - pretty dramatic.0 -
Travelling from Shanghai Airport to the city is an extraordinary experience: endless tower blocks in all directions for miles on end. Makes Hong Kong seem like a small town in comparison.0
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@FaisalIslam "UK "identifiably" spends £8,788 per head. England: £8,529. Scotland: £10,152. N Ireland: £10,665 Wales: £9,709. New regional pub spend data"
Or in another words England gets 3% LESS than average, Wales 10% above average. Scotland 16% above, and N Ireland 24% above, identifiably..0 -
I was doing a seminar for a Chinese delegation (on global warming) from Shanghai yesterday, and we got onto the subject of the British preference for separate houses with gardens, which they thought charming if a little quaint.To illustrate the problems of urban sprawl which that reinforces, I asked them what Shanghai would be like if a third of the population opted for individual houses. They boggled and chuckled - one suggested that they could allay tensions with Japan by building the promontory out from Shanghai to Tokyo.SeanT said:Extraordinary photos capturing the intensity and density of Chinese cities.
twitter.com/Travel__PR/status/403459012575772672/photo/1
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/11/20/i-wish-these-buildings-were-photoshopped-but-theyre-not/
But pictures like this can be misleading, don't you think? - like pictures of Tube crowds which make us all look like ants. As an individual you don't really feel like an ant. I grew up in a tower block - I was just concerned with the 8th floor, and didn't really care if there were another 5 or 50 floors.
Basically in highly-populated cities one has to build upwards or outwards - there are no other options unless we want to get into troglodysm.
0 -
Matt is brilliant today..0
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Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
0 -
Show me one post of mine where I have attacked a politician of any stripe for "deviance". I could not give a f--k if Cameron likes escorts or coke or whatever. Who cares?SeanT said:
Oh please, yet more special pleading from lefties. Given that Dromey has now made this "mistake" TWICE, six months apart, we can assume that 2 is closer to the truth than 1.Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
In which case, would Labour stop their chortling and sneering if the same "mistake" was made by the spouse of a very senior Tory? No. tim wouldn't stop mentioning it until the Heat Death of the universe.0 -
,,,,,,,,,,,,
0 -
London Tubes to run all night on Fri and Sat from 2015.
And all ticket offices to shut....
0 -
To be fair, it might not even have been him. It would not surprise me if one of his team also accessed and managed his tweets.SeanT said:
Oh please, yet more special pleading from lefties. Given that Dromey has now made this "mistake" TWICE, six months apart, we can assume that 2 is closer to the truth than 1.Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
In which case, would Labour stop their chortling and sneering if the same "mistake" was made by the spouse of a very senior Tory? No. tim wouldn't stop mentioning it until the Heat Death of the universe.
I'm quite glad that I've never had anything to do with Twitter ...0 -
Pudong seems uncanny because every building looks as if it were newly-built, which of course is pretty much the case. In almost every Western city the majority of high rise buildings are more than 30 years old, something you don't really appreciate until you go to somewhere like Shanghai.0
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Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
Married male MP advertises liking for gay porn on social media.... Think it's worth a mention. No one has criticised him on grounds of moral outrage, it's jut funny when people are caught out. It's you that needs to lighten up0 -
"HarperCollins UK boss tells publishers: take storytelling back from digital rivals":
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/nov/20/harpercollins-charlie-redmayne-publishers-storytelling-digital0 -
Live and let live FFS.isam said:Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
Married male MP advertises liking for gay porn on social media.... Think it's worth a mention. No one has criticised him on grounds of moral outrage, it's jut funny when people are caught out. It's you that needs to lighten up0 -
His sexuality is neither here nor there. His wife's pronouncements on the subject of pornography is a matter of public record. Although to be fair, AFAIK her complaints have been about the objectification and exploitation of women and not men. I wonder if he has a view on the latter?Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
0 -
Bobajob - It is quite funny though.
0 -
The Mail says only he has access to his Twitter account, so it can't be anyone else.JosiasJessop said:
To be fair, it might not even have been him. It would not surprise me if one of his team also accessed and managed his tweets.SeanT said:
Oh please, yet more special pleading from lefties. Given that Dromey has now made this "mistake" TWICE, six months apart, we can assume that 2 is closer to the truth than 1.Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
In which case, would Labour stop their chortling and sneering if the same "mistake" was made by the spouse of a very senior Tory? No. tim wouldn't stop mentioning it until the Heat Death of the universe.
I'm quite glad that I've never had anything to do with Twitter ...
0 -
CarlottaVance said:
Get a life.Bobajob said:
His sexuality is neither here nor there. His wife's pronouncements on the subject of pornography is a matter of public record. Although to be fair, AFAIK her complaints have been about the objectification and exploitation of women and not men. I wonder if he has a view on the latter?CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
0 -
Get a life.CarlottaVance said:
His sexuality is neither here nor there. His wife's pronouncements on the subject of pornography is a matter of public record. Although to be fair, AFAIK her complaints have been about the objectification and exploitation of women and not men. I wonder if he has a view on the latter?Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.0 -
BREAKING NEWS:Turkish police shoot and wound a suspected suicide bomber outside the prime minister's office, state media say.
Next story on Guido might not look good for JD.0 -
Oh dear, Peter Oborne needs to brush up on his statistics:
Mathematicians tell us that the statistical probability against a coin coming up heads six times in a row is 64-1. In other words there is only one chance in 64 that Labour’s score of 6/6 was a coincidence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10462871/Its-no-coincidence-the-MPs-found-guilty-of-fiddling-are-all-Labour.html
If we take the 2005 starting position of Labour holding 355 out of 646 seats, the correct figure is a 2.7% chance that all six would Labour, if the null hypothesis is that there was no systematic bias towards Labour MPs being more corrupt than other MPs, i.e. a one in 37 chance. (355/646 for the first, 354/645 for the second etc, multiplied together). This assumes we include Sinn Fein MPs, which I think is right because they claimed expenses even though they didn't take part in parliamentary debates and votes.
Still statisically significant by the most commonly-used assessment, of course.0 -
Haha are you stuck on repeat?Bobajob said:
Live and let live FFS.isam said:Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
Married male MP advertises liking for gay porn on social media.... Think it's worth a mention. No one has criticised him on grounds of moral outrage, it's jut funny when people are caught out. It's you that needs to lighten up
No one has taken the moral high ground with Dromey, everyone is, perfectly normally, laughing at someone getting caught in a compromising situation. So what?
You have made it clear that you are groovily relaxed about it all, and that you've missed the point.
0 -
Got a mirror dear?Bobajob said:
Get a life.CarlottaVance said:
His sexuality is neither here nor there. His wife's pronouncements on the subject of pornography is a matter of public record. Although to be fair, AFAIK her complaints have been about the objectification and exploitation of women and not men. I wonder if he has a view on the latter?Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
I don't spend my time telling other posters what to post.
0 -
I think that is sensible, also if you have enourmously high density populations in the major cities then, all else being equal, you don't need to concrete over the countryside. Both countryside and city lovers are happy bunnies.SeanT said:
I wasn't dissing Chinese cities. I LIKE high density cities: this is where I was last night in Bangkok, drunk, happy, with everybody salsa dancing at midnight on the fortieth storey rooftop bar of a skyscraper:NickPalmer said:
I was doing a seminar for a Chinese delegation (on global warming) from Shanghai yesterday, and we got onto the subject of the British preference for separate houses with gardens, which they thought charming if a little quaint.To illustrate the problems of urban sprawl which that reinforces, I asked them what Shanghai would be like if a third of the population opted for individual houses. They boggled and chuckled - one suggested that they could allay tensions with Japan by building the promontory out from Shanghai to Tokyo.SeanT said:Extraordinary photos capturing the intensity and density of Chinese cities.
twitter.com/Travel__PR/status/403459012575772672/photo/1
http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/11/20/i-wish-these-buildings-were-photoshopped-but-theyre-not/
But pictures like this can be misleading, don't you think? - like pictures of Tube crowds which make us all look like ants. As an individual you don't really feel like an ant. I grew up in a tower block - I was just concerned with the 8th floor, and didn't really care if there were another 5 or 50 floors.
Basically in highly-populated cities one has to build upwards or outwards - there are no other options unless we want to get into troglodysm.
twitter.com/thomasknox/status/403193544539521024/photo/1
Bangkok (obviously) and Hong Kong are two of my favourite places on earth. The view of Hong Kong from Kowloon is one of the most stirring of all urban experiences.
Personally I think we need more density in London. I'd like to see the Pinnacle built in the City to complete the cluster, and we should build huge towers in Canary Wharf and eastwards (we need 1m more homes in London in the next 20 years, so we haven't much choice)0 -
"1 in 10 people in Iceland take antidepressants daily":
http://www.theguardian.com/news/2013/nov/20/mental-health-antidepressants-global-trends0 -
No, you spend your time telling us what to read.CarlottaVance said:
Got a mirror dear?Bobajob said:
Get a life.CarlottaVance said:
His sexuality is neither here nor there. His wife's pronouncements on the subject of pornography is a matter of public record. Although to be fair, AFAIK her complaints have been about the objectification and exploitation of women and not men. I wonder if he has a view on the latter?Bobajob said:
Two possible explanations.CarlottaVance said:Both the Mail and the Telegraph have picked up the Mr Harriet Harman story:
Labour frontbencher 'favourited' explicit gay porn tweets
Jack Dromey, who is married to Harriet Harman, blames his links to gay porn sites on a “technological mix up"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10464348/Labour-frontbencher-favourited-explicit-gay-porn-tweets.html
Harriet Harman's MP husband left red-faced after adding gay porn Tweet to his 'favourites'
Labour MP Jack Dromey linked to a tweet about well-endowed black men
Harriet Harman's husband made a 'technological mix up', spokesman said
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511016/Harriet-Harmans-MP-husband-Jack-Dromey-adds-gay-porn-Tweet-favourites.html#ixzz2lGtZgfmL
1. It was a mistake.
2. He likes gay porn.
My response to 1&2 is "so what"?
Give it a break. It's purile.
I don't spend my time telling other posters what to post.
0