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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some numbers that could help TMay’s survival. Another poll, Yo

SystemSystem Posts: 11,008
edited July 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some numbers that could help TMay’s survival. Another poll, YouGov, has her & the Tories edging back a touch

Given how close it is to the last election it is hardly surprsisng that there are so few voting intention polls coming out. Today’s from YouGov is only the second since Mrs. May lost her majority on June 8th and has the gap down just a touch.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2017
    First, like Labour

    Anyone noticing UKIP gradually going up in the polls ?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Second is first among losers.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    No prizes for third past the post. PR now!
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    ... back to reality, here comes gravity ...
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Nice to see leave still leading. The fundementals have not changed and other than a couple of million floaters in the middle it would be hard to understand why anyone leave or remain would have switched sides. Clearly Mr Blair and Mr Cable need to try much harder!
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    CornishJohnCornishJohn Posts: 304
    These numbers completely back up what I have been saying. Theresa May is now starting to recover because people admire her getting on with the job and leaving politicking to the election campaign. Yet the leaks and sniping by the egos in the party hurt the party and could let in Corbyn.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    "But she cannot airbrush out of history the fact that she called the election to increase her majority and ended without one at all. In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    The Tory party nowadays don't have the ba**s to do it.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    When will ICM, the brass standard, bring out a poll with the Tories 20 points ahead.
  • Options
    CornishJohnCornishJohn Posts: 304
    surbiton said:

    "But she cannot airbrush out of history the fact that she called the election to increase her majority and ended without one at all. In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    The Tory party nowadays don't have the ba**s to do it.

    The Conservative Party, thankfully, is sober-minded and doesn't particularly respond to childish taunts.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Despite the media barrage, a majority still think Brexit is the right thing to do.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    She'll probably call another GE as soon as they're ahead in the polls.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    I was going to suggest that given how long large public projects take in the UK, these words would probably appear on his tombstone:
    Mr Grayling told the BBC's Today programme that the high-speed rail network will be "on time, on budget" and the government has "a clear idea of what it will cost".

    Then I checked his Wikipedia entry and realised Chris Grayling was only 55, and not in his mid sixties, as his appearance and demeanour suggest...
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Has Mr Cummings spotted the real Plan B?

    https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/status/886929423861207040
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    surbiton said:

    "But she cannot airbrush out of history the fact that she called the election to increase her majority and ended without one at all. In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    The Tory party nowadays don't have the ba**s to do it.

    The Conservative Party, thankfully, is sober-minded and doesn't particularly respond to childish taunts.
    Why is that a childish taunt? If you don't like coming here then you don't have to.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    David Davis has returned to London, leaving the negotiations in the hands of the professionals, while he gets back for other activities:

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/886929198954184704

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.
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    CornishJohnCornishJohn Posts: 304

    surbiton said:

    "But she cannot airbrush out of history the fact that she called the election to increase her majority and ended without one at all. In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    The Tory party nowadays don't have the ba**s to do it.

    The Conservative Party, thankfully, is sober-minded and doesn't particularly respond to childish taunts.
    Why is that a childish taunt? If you don't like coming here then you don't have to.
    I haven't heard "you haven't got the ba**s to do it" since I was in school. Do you hear it more regularly in your line of work?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    surbiton said:

    First, like Labour

    Anyone noticing UKIP gradually going up in the polls ?

    Or the Labour vote falling?
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Brom said:

    Nice to see leave still leading. The fundementals have not changed and other than a couple of million floaters in the middle it would be hard to understand why anyone leave or remain would have switched sides. Clearly Mr Blair and Mr Cable need to try much harder!

    Which survey shows leave still leading? The most recent Survation has remain well ahead.

    http://survation.com/the-eu-referendum-where-the-uk-stands-today-should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union/

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,298
    She'd be out PDQ if the PCP was convinced her replacement wasn't David Davis nor Boris.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027

    David Davis has returned to London, leaving the negotiations in the hands of the professionals, while he gets back for other activities:

    Is Davis more interested in negotiating his takeover of Downing Street?
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Great to be home and to listen to TMS.

    NOT.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    RoyalBlue said:

    Despite the media barrage, a majority still think Brexit is the right thing to do.

    It's much like Project Fear. Because the barrage of negativity from selective media sources (Channel 4 News, Sky News, Guardian and Evening Standard) people are failing to believe what they are reading and hearing.
    Perhaps if there was more objectivity and focus on believable stories rather than making MAJOR HEADLINES from thin gruel such as made-up leaks or someone on our negotiating team not tweeting enough then perhaps voters would be more likely to accept any shortcomings from the situation we find ourselves in.

    Either way I doubt the position of voters will change too much, views are largely entrenched which is why the June 23rd vote is irreversible from the point Article 50 was enacted.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    Great to be home and to listen to TMS.

    NOT.

    England are doing their best to cut your torture short.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    Brom said:

    Nice to see leave still leading. The fundementals have not changed and other than a couple of million floaters in the middle it would be hard to understand why anyone leave or remain would have switched sides. Clearly Mr Blair and Mr Cable need to try much harder!

    Which survey shows leave still leading? The most recent Survation has remain well ahead.

    http://survation.com/the-eu-referendum-where-the-uk-stands-today-should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union/

    And the YG just out has 'wrong' +2 'right' -1 with 'wrong to Leave' taking a narrow lead.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226
    The UK needs to prepare itself for weaker economic performance, two major forecasting groups have said, in the latest studies predicting the downsides of the Brexit vote.

    Fragile business sentiment linked to Brexit-related anxiety, domestic political uncertainty and squeezed consumer budgets have caused UK business confidence to drop to its lowest point for almost six years, the economic consultancy IHS Markit reports.

    Meanwhile, Britain’s economic growth will continue to weaken this year due to a Brexit-related consumer-spending squeeze and muted earnings growth, the EY Item Club said in the latest downgrading of its forecasts.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    edited July 2017
    Will the leadership battle come down to who is the man who can sell the betrayal?
    https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/status/886932445353869312
    He's not a fan:
    https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/status/886933116371251200
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    David Davis has returned to London, leaving the negotiations in the hands of the professionals, while he gets back for other activities:

    Is Davis more interested in negotiating his takeover of Downing Street?
    It seems the obvious conclusion. Why else would the Brexit minister abandon the talks immediately after the photoshoot?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/

    Why would anyone abuse them unless they were being grossly overpaid? Ahh I see now. Time to raise the licence tax anyone?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    surbiton said:

    First, like Labour

    Anyone noticing UKIP gradually going up in the polls ?

    Nope 2 minus 2 in this poll .
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926

    Brom said:

    Nice to see leave still leading. The fundementals have not changed and other than a couple of million floaters in the middle it would be hard to understand why anyone leave or remain would have switched sides. Clearly Mr Blair and Mr Cable need to try much harder!

    Which survey shows leave still leading? The most recent Survation has remain well ahead.

    http://survation.com/the-eu-referendum-where-the-uk-stands-today-should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union/

    that poll has been overtaken by the new one released this weekend

    If there were another referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

    Leave 48%

    Remain 47%

    Undecided 5%

    (With undecided removed)

    Leave 50% (+1)

    Remain 50% (-1)
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    Nobody forces them to read twitter or facebook. But my taxpayer cash is going to be used to give stress counselling to the precious snowflakes when we give impotently rage at them on a computer screen? Meh.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    David Allen Green has a pretty good article on how to do Brexit:

    https://www.ft.com/content/4278146d-67e9-3430-8711-0d3e6d74c25e

    Google "how brexit should be done" to see it outside the paywall.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    tlg86 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    GeoffM said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    Nobody forces them to read twitter or facebook. But my taxpayer cash is going to be used to give stress counselling to the precious snowflakes when we give impotently rage at them on a computer screen? Meh.
    I'm so happy to be no longer paying the tax to fund these egos!
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .
    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    felix said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.

    Yes, I think Labour is suffering a bit from being out of the limelight, though there are worse things than being ahead in every poll less than two months after an election. The Tory chaos is embarrassing, but it does tend to remind people that the Tories are in power and thus more or less the only game in town at the moment. I wouldn't invest too much hope or despair in this pattern, though.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    Brom said:

    Nice to see leave still leading. The fundementals have not changed and other than a couple of million floaters in the middle it would be hard to understand why anyone leave or remain would have switched sides. Clearly Mr Blair and Mr Cable need to try much harder!

    Which survey shows leave still leading? The most recent Survation has remain well ahead.

    http://survation.com/the-eu-referendum-where-the-uk-stands-today-should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union/

    Yougov has Right to Leave ahead by 45/43.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .
    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .
    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    Watch Channel 4 Bakeoff or BBC Top Gear to see what happens when the "talent" is on the other channel.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .
    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Tragic.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    felix said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.

    Yes, I think Labour is suffering a bit from being out of the limelight, though there are worse things than being ahead in every poll less than two months after an election. The Tory chaos is embarrassing, but it does tend to remind people that the Tories are in power and thus more or less the only game in town at the moment. I wouldn't invest too much hope or despair in this pattern, though.
    This time next year the Conservatives will be in the low 30s in the polls .
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    David Allen Green has a pretty good article on how to do Brexit:

    https://www.ft.com/content/4278146d-67e9-3430-8711-0d3e6d74c25e

    Google "how brexit should be done" to see it outside the paywall.

    No
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692

    David Allen Green has a pretty good article on how to do Brexit:

    https://www.ft.com/content/4278146d-67e9-3430-8711-0d3e6d74c25e

    Google "how brexit should be done" to see it outside the paywall.

    It is a good article that I in particular recommend Leavers should read, who think things aren't turning out the way they hoped.

    I think the EU are doing as a good as job as they can on their immediate objectives (orderly exit and the inevitable damage of Brexit to fall on the UK rather than them). The UK hasn't articulated its objective, but the main one should be continuity. We want things to carry on in the same way out of membership as we obtained through membership. Out of membership arrangements for the UK are a hard sell to make to the EU, given they need to shore up their operation and so boost the value of membership. However it is something the EU need to address given we are not going back into the EU and they will want us on their side. It's coming up with carefully calibrated offer to the UK that is sufficiently costly and poor value that membership is always the better option, but not such bad value no-one would take it.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.

    Yes, I think Labour is suffering a bit from being out of the limelight, though there are worse things than being ahead in every poll less than two months after an election. The Tory chaos is embarrassing, but it does tend to remind people that the Tories are in power and thus more or less the only game in town at the moment. I wouldn't invest too much hope or despair in this pattern, though.
    Agreed - early days but to me astonishing, given the headlines and media narrative - not least on here - and a reminder of how out of touch the village continues to be.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826


    Just so I understand: what you are saying is that we can insert ourselves into deals even if parties to those deals say that we can't? Are you Owen Paterson?

    https://twitter.com/djmgaffneyw4/status/886885191570137088

    Is what Patterson is saying so unreasonable? It might be unachievable but it seems to be the agricultural equivalent of the BMW argument -- that the EU should give us free access because otherwise tariffs will harm BMW French farmers.

    Read it again.

    I have done twice. It is true that proportionally the UK exchequer would receive more in tariffs than the EU would. Not sure which part you're objecting to.

    The importer pays the tariffs, not the exporter.
    Not exactly.

    Technically that's true but then that's like saying that the consumer pays VAT or duties etc. While that may again technically be true, the reality is that companies have spent a fortune on lawyers and lobbyists to get their products either VAT-free or having a lower duty etc

    Because VAT/duty/tariffs hurt the supplier. Even if technically the consumer pays.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/


    They could always choose to take a lower salary...

    When Spreadsheet Phil talked about overpaid public sector workers, these ones are definitely top of the list!
    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .
    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    I guess it's asking too much for a Liberal Democrat to understand how the electoral system works - just think how they've struggled with the EU referendum result.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Interesting story in the FT

    David Davis has returned from Brussels after two or three hours there

    Google "David Davis returns from Brexit talks after lightning Brussels trip" or this link MIGHT work

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dqrs3qxaAPIJ:https://www.ft.com/content/a11de5ea-6ae5-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0?mhq5j=e2+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.

    Yes, I think Labour is suffering a bit from being out of the limelight, though there are worse things than being ahead in every poll less than two months after an election. The Tory chaos is embarrassing, but it does tend to remind people that the Tories are in power and thus more or less the only game in town at the moment. I wouldn't invest too much hope or despair in this pattern, though.
    This time next year the Conservatives will be in the low 30s in the polls .
    And Devon and Cornwall will go LD en masse just as they did in 2015 and 2017 :)
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
  • Options
    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,767
    RoyalBlue said:

    Despite the media barrage, a majority still think Brexit is the right thing to do.

    Due to the media barrage, 73% also think the final Brexit bill will be a maximum of £10 billion. When that is revised upwards attitudes will (regrettably) harden.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    felix said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.

    Yes, I think Labour is suffering a bit from being out of the limelight, though there are worse things than being ahead in every poll less than two months after an election. The Tory chaos is embarrassing, but it does tend to remind people that the Tories are in power and thus more or less the only game in town at the moment. I wouldn't invest too much hope or despair in this pattern, though.

    The collapse of the UKIP and LibDem votes, as well as the comeback in Scotland, mean Labour has a much higher floor than it did just a few months ago. But given the strength of the anti-Labour vote, that probably means the days of 20, maybe even 10, point opinion poll leads for either party are behind us for a while.
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    In earlier times she would not have been toppled within days.
    There have only been two previous occasions with similar circumstances; 1). 1923 Stanley Baldwin needlessly lost his majority but survived to win the following election. 2). 1974. Heath did even worse -lost his majority and made Tories second biggest party but was allowed to lose again and still survive for a year. There is no precedent at all for a PM being forced to resign after having stayed in office after a general election. Indeed, May's replacement after having been voted back as PM could be seen as deeply undemocratic.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited July 2017

    felix said:

    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects 22h22 hours ago
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 43% (-2) CON: 41% (+2) LDEM: 5% (-) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-) (via @OpiniumResearch, 11 - 14 Jul
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    On who would make best Prime Minister: T. May: 43% J. Corbyn: 35% (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)
    Britain Elects‏ @britainelects Jul 15
    Westminster voting intention: LAB: 41% (-4) CON: 39% (-) LDEM: 8% (+1) UKIP: 6% (+2) (via @Survation, 14 - 15 Jul)


    So YG is the third poll showing Labour falling since the election.

    Yes, I think Labour is suffering a bit from being out of the limelight, though there are worse things than being ahead in every poll less than two months after an election. The Tory chaos is embarrassing, but it does tend to remind people that the Tories are in power and thus more or less the only game in town at the moment. I wouldn't invest too much hope or despair in this pattern, though.

    The collapse of the UKIP and LibDem votes, as well as the comeback in Scotland, mean Labour has a much higher floor than it did just a few months ago. But given the strength of the anti-Labour vote, that probably means the days of 20, maybe even 10, point opinion poll leads for either party are behind us for a while.
    Given the recent polling shambles that would be no bad thing. The nation remains hopelessly divided.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    David Davis has returned to London, leaving the negotiations in the hands of the professionals, while he gets back for other activities:

    Is Davis more interested in negotiating his takeover of Downing Street?
    It seems the obvious conclusion. Why else would the Brexit minister abandon the talks immediately after the photoshoot?

    Surely the explanation is that Davis knows what is going to happen and does not need to be there. It's just a matter of when the EU caves and gives the UK all that it wants. Once that occurs he can be back in Brussels in no time at all.

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    What the tories cheated themselves out of a majority? What are you on?
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    The Tories don't have to panic too much until there is consistent polling of,within MOE, 36% or under for them.The sense of paralysis,a zombie government,and cabinet disunity won't help but the thing that will really cut into the Tory's lead is food inflation and inflation of prices in other essential areas of household spending.This isn't Project Fear.Being a sad old git,I monitor my weekly shopping spend and my 250gm own brand block butter has gone from 96p to £1.18p in a matter on months.,a rise of 13.5%.This whole question then leads to the low-pay virus that is affecting the UK and the stagnation of incomes.I think these fundamental economic reasons will be the ones to take the Tory % down.The other danger for them is when voters can see Ulster with its A&Es flourishing A&E is closing in England and the same for schools,libraries,childrens' centres etc.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    Will the leadership battle come down to who is the man who can sell the betrayal?
    https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/status/886932445353869312
    He's not a fan:
    https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/status/886933116371251200

    Boris is the only one who could sell a sellout. He's been able to pivot his opinions non stop, no one views him as principled, and yet they don't seem to mind. He is probably the individual who most impacted on the vote (Farage being more influential in getting the vote than winning it), and could carry over more wavering brexiteers if he was to abandon the cause. Boris giveth the brexit, Boris taketh away.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BethRigby: DD apparently had a hand in "the single crappest TV news" for #VoteLeave of entire campaign, says Cummings. (add to… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/886941961546072064
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    FFS.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    FF43 said:

    David Allen Green has a pretty good article on how to do Brexit:

    https://www.ft.com/content/4278146d-67e9-3430-8711-0d3e6d74c25e

    Google "how brexit should be done" to see it outside the paywall.

    It is a good article that I in particular recommend Leavers should read, who think things aren't turning out the way they hoped.

    I think the EU are doing as a good as job as they can on their immediate objectives (orderly exit and the inevitable damage of Brexit to fall on the UK rather than them). The UK hasn't articulated its objective, but the main one should be continuity. We want things to carry on in the same way out of membership as we obtained through membership. Out of membership arrangements for the UK are a hard sell to make to the EU, given they need to shore up their operation and so boost the value of membership. However it is something the EU need to address given we are not going back into the EU and they will want us on their side. It's coming up with carefully calibrated offer to the UK that is sufficiently costly and poor value that membership is always the better option, but not such bad value no-one would take it.

    It is very good indeed. The grown-up approach it proposes would bring on board a lot of very worried Remain voters who recognise the result and the fact that it must be respected, but who see a government making a complete hash of the departure process.

    I'd also add one other point: we should make clear that there is no demand that the EU27 could make that would lead to us to quit the negotiating table. We reserve the right to reject proposals, but we are absolutely committed to finding solutions to all impasses at every stage. If the EU27 wish to walk away that is a matter for them and something that each member state government will then have to justify to its voters.

  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    You need to put the crack pipe down, sunshine, and open a window to let the fumes out.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.
  • Options
    marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    Proof?

    Labour voters didnt vote twice then?
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    What the tories cheated themselves out of a majority? What are you on?
    What is it about you overseas Tories that you always try to insinuate that people you disagree with are consuming hard drugs? Just asking.....

    No. the victims of the cheating on the part of the Conservatives are firstly the electorate, and secondly the fairness of the electoral system. And thirdly, of course, the legitimacy of the Conservative government.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    If they cheated, they didn't do a very good job of it.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Another FT piece from PB's second favourite Gideon:

    https://www.ft.com/content/b3630088-6ac6-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0

    "The democratic case for stopping Brexit"
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    These numbers completely back up what I have been saying. Theresa May is now starting to recover because people admire her getting on with the job and leaving politicking to the election campaign. Yet the leaks and sniping by the egos in the party hurt the party and could let in Corbyn.

    She is just blundering about wondering what to do, no clue and no just getting on with the job, she has reverted to her previous do nothing and hope you don't get found out model.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    One can't assume that all of that 58% would have preferred a Labour-led government to a Conservative-led government.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    What the tories cheated themselves out of a majority? What are you on?
    What is it about you overseas Tories that you always try to insinuate that people you disagree with are consuming hard drugs? Just asking.....

    No. the victims of the cheating on the part of the Conservatives are firstly the electorate, and secondly the fairness of the electoral system. And thirdly, of course, the legitimacy of the Conservative government.
    What is it with LDs and their hostility to Brits in Europe? You said the Tories cheated - they LOST their majority! Apparently you are drug free which leaves only one conclusion to be drawn.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    Our Dunkirk:

    Labour 40%
    Tories 42%

    Labour 262 seats
    Tories 317 seats.

    SURVIVAL IS VICTORY!
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    felix said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    Fortunately the voters got the LD totals right except in Westmorland by a few handfuls of votes.
    We ended up with the result we did, because the Tories cheated, as they always do.
    What the tories cheated themselves out of a majority? What are you on?
    What is it about you overseas Tories that you always try to insinuate that people you disagree with are consuming hard drugs? Just asking.....

    No. the victims of the cheating on the part of the Conservatives are firstly the electorate, and secondly the fairness of the electoral system. And thirdly, of course, the legitimacy of the Conservative government.
    What is it with LDs and their hostility to Brits in Europe? You said the Tories cheated - they LOST their majority! Apparently you are drug free which leaves only one conclusion to be drawn.
    No hostility towards Brits in Europe. Only towards gloating Tory knaves, wherever they may be found.

    Yes, drug free.... I don`t know just what negative conclusion you would wish to draw from that....
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    Our Dunkirk:

    Labour 40%
    Tories 42%

    Labour 262 seats
    Tories 317 seats.

    SURVIVAL IS VICTORY!
    Your post demonstrates the inequitable electoral system. 2.5% lead equals 55 extra seats!
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    For me, Brexit will not determine the next GE. Whatever the impact on the country, leavers will claim it would have been worse had we stayed in, and remainers will claim it would have been better. Both sides will say they have been vidicated; net result: broadly neutral.

    Rather, I believe that unless there is a sea-change in government policy (unlikely), rising inequality will make it difficult for the Tories to win next time.

    Today's Guardian opinion provides a very clear summary of how the very richest in our country have protected and ehanced their position at the expense of the rest since the crash.

    "While the rest of society have shared in an equality of misery following the crash, the top 1% – households with incomes of £275,000 – have now recovered all the ground they lost during the world’s worst post-second world war slump. The share of income going to the very richest is now 8.5%. That’s double their share in 1985. The question has to be asked: has the value of the 1% in society doubled in the last 20 years? "

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/16/the-guardian-view-on-the-1-all-gain-no-pain

    Well worth a quick read imo.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    Sean_F said:

    PClipp said:

    tlg86 said:

    May and her cabinet including Hammond are all public sector workers and definitely top of the list for being overpaid .

    Ah, but we can sack them (notice we chose not to last month). Unfortunately the same does not apply to BBC "talent".
    58% of voters chose to sack them last month but that majority was ignored .
    Another reminder of our failing electoral system. Alas!
    One can't assume that all of that 58% would have preferred a Labour-led government to a Conservative-led government.
    Indeed. And I'd expect May/Hammond to have won on a straight national choice as well.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2017
    felix said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "The BBC will offer protection to stars who receive online abuse and threats when their salaries are published this week.

    The corporation’s bosses are braced for attacks on presenters and other high paid ‘talent’ when the list of stars earning £150,000 or more is made public.

    A BBC source said: “People are extremely worried about safety, not only for themselves but also their families. There is a worry they will receive a torrent of abuse online.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/16/bbc-offers-protect-stars-abuse-gears-publish-150k-plus-salaries/

    Why would anyone abuse them unless they were being grossly overpaid? Ahh I see now. Time to raise the licence tax anyone?
    I notice a trend like fake news...Now it is all about "abuse". While it is undoubted that abuse of politicians happens, what they really mean is harsh criticism, like diane abbott performance during the GE campaign.

    trump won due to fake news, now get caught with a PR nightmare and cry potential for being abused.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    Davis committed his own Brexit blunder the day Article 50 was triggered in March, according to EU and British officials, when he placed a call to Timo Soini, Finland’s foreign minister and a critic of the EU. Having been told he was speaking to Soini, Davis announced down the phone in enthusiastic terms that Brexit had begun, and that he needed the Finn’s support to secure a good deal from the EU.
    Only when he heard the voice at the other end of the line did Davis realize he was in fact speaking to Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator. It was the second time the two men had spoken since Davis was given the job.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-14/britain-s-brexit-chaos-leaves-eu-friends-and-foes-bemused
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267
    On topic, it's tough but May needs to re-exert her authority and reign in her Cabinet if she wants to stay.

    Clearly she has a confidence problem, but she needs to clear that up over the Summer. Electoral disaster or not she still has a chance of going down in the history books if she works hard over the next 2 years to get it right.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    GeoffM said:

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
    A very good question, Mr Geoff. Is it Mr Davis?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    Our Dunkirk:

    Labour 40%
    Tories 42%

    Labour 262 seats
    Tories 317 seats.

    SURVIVAL IS VICTORY!
    Your post demonstrates the inequitable electoral system. 2.5% lead equals 55 extra seats!
    Your hero Bliar got a 66 seat majority with just 35% :p
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    GeoffM said:

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
    Neutral?! Do me a favour!

    How about:
    Q: Who increased their number of seats?
    A:
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    Our Dunkirk:

    Labour 40%
    Tories 42%

    Labour 262 seats
    Tories 317 seats.

    SURVIVAL IS VICTORY!
    Your post demonstrates the inequitable electoral system. 2.5% lead equals 55 extra seats!
    No it doesn't
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    GeoffM said:

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
    Neutral?! Do me a favour!

    How about:
    Q: Who increased their number of seats?
    A:
    The lib dems...
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    Our Dunkirk:

    Labour 40%
    Tories 42%

    Labour 262 seats
    Tories 317 seats.

    SURVIVAL IS VICTORY!
    Your post demonstrates the inequitable electoral system. 2.5% lead equals 55 extra seats!
    Your hero Bliar got a 66 seat majority with just 35% :p
    I don't recognise 'Bliar' just the 'Blessed Tony'!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Rumours I am to be regenerated into Doris Dancer are grossly inaccurate.

    Mr. Observer, that sounds less like a blunder and more like a set up.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
    Neutral?! Do me a favour!

    How about:
    Q: Who increased their number of seats?
    A:
    The DUP
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
    Neutral?! Do me a favour!

    How about:
    Q: Who increased their number of seats?
    A:
    The DUP
    Good answer! They probably were the only winners :smile:
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?

    Q: Who is Prime Minister right now?
    A:
    Neutral?! Do me a favour!

    How about:
    Q: Who increased their number of seats?
    A:
    The DUP
    Good answer! They probably were the only winners :smile:
    Most votes, most seats and no government could be formed without them: the Conservatives and hence Theresa May, won the election.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799

    For me, Brexit will not determine the next GE. Whatever the impact on the country, leavers will claim it would have been worse had we stayed in, and remainers will claim it would have been better. Both sides will say they have been vidicated; net result: broadly neutral.

    Rather, I believe that unless there is a sea-change in government policy (unlikely), rising inequality will make it difficult for the Tories to win next time.

    Today's Guardian opinion provides a very clear summary of how the very richest in our country have protected and ehanced their position at the expense of the rest since the crash.

    "While the rest of society have shared in an equality of misery following the crash, the top 1% – households with incomes of £275,000 – have now recovered all the ground they lost during the world’s worst post-second world war slump. The share of income going to the very richest is now 8.5%. That’s double their share in 1985. The question has to be asked: has the value of the 1% in society doubled in the last 20 years? "

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/16/the-guardian-view-on-the-1-all-gain-no-pain

    Well worth a quick read imo.

    It's somewhat misleading to portray 99% sharing an "equality of misery". There's a big difference between being in the top 20% or top 40%, and being in the bottom 20%.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    Sean_F said:

    For me, Brexit will not determine the next GE. Whatever the impact on the country, leavers will claim it would have been worse had we stayed in, and remainers will claim it would have been better. Both sides will say they have been vidicated; net result: broadly neutral.

    Rather, I believe that unless there is a sea-change in government policy (unlikely), rising inequality will make it difficult for the Tories to win next time.

    Today's Guardian opinion provides a very clear summary of how the very richest in our country have protected and ehanced their position at the expense of the rest since the crash.

    "While the rest of society have shared in an equality of misery following the crash, the top 1% – households with incomes of £275,000 – have now recovered all the ground they lost during the world’s worst post-second world war slump. The share of income going to the very richest is now 8.5%. That’s double their share in 1985. The question has to be asked: has the value of the 1% in society doubled in the last 20 years? "

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/16/the-guardian-view-on-the-1-all-gain-no-pain

    Well worth a quick read imo.

    It's somewhat misleading to portray 99% sharing an "equality of misery". There's a big difference between being in the top 20% or top 40%, and being in the bottom 20%.
    Yes, that's a fair point, that comment is somewhat over the top. But I still think the overall thrust of the piece is correct.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,226

    "In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "

    She won the election.

    She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
    She won the election.
    But lost the argument.
This discussion has been closed.