"A" Customs Union (rather than "The") with the EU would likely just require us to keep our tariff schedule in-line with the EU's.
As a transitional arrangement, this makes a lot of sense, as it would dramatically reduce paperwork for firms who trade with the EU. Longer-term, we could work on putting in place technology (electronic manifests with appropriate spot checks) that would enable us to leave this arrangement without putting an undue burden on firms.
Aren't they just saying the deal can't be better than their one with the EU?
They do not like their EU deal, but if they wanted EU access they had to accept it. It is like the proposed UK/USA deal - we have a nice trade surplus with the USA and they are a far bigger market than us. Do you imagine that any deal we get from the USA will be allowed to increase OUR surplus? Of course not, they will try for a deal that benefits the USA as The Donald has already made clear "America comes first"
Brexit will just expose us to trade deals worse than we have now but it will OK because we will be able to elect our own govts. Err.....
Beverley_C - I suppose we must have paid, in today's money, about 1/2 trillion pounds to benefit from a free trade agreement with the EU? Perhaps, reading that link below, the extra legal work we might get from Korea makes it all worth it? But all sorts of agreements are London law anyway... and come to court here anyway.
In addition to the points raised in the article, Korea felt they got the worse of the deal with the EU. They won't actually want to replicate it with the UK.
It depends what you mean by "better deal". The UK should be quite happy to offer deeper and more liberal access to its markets, particularly in services, than the EU.
I see a few things the EU excluded - such as media and digital - we wouldn't have a problem with.
Beverley_C - I suppose we must have paid, in today's money, about 1/2 trillion pounds to benefit from a free trade agreement with the EU? Perhaps, reading that link below, the extra legal work we might get from Korea makes it all worth it? But all sorts of agreements are London law anyway... and come to court here anyway.
Well if we bandying around sloppy figures, 43 years of our current trade with the EU is equivalent of about £21tn or over 40 times as much as that membership fee. And your point is?
The EU brought other benefits too, but what is the point? Leavers seem to want to leave regardless of any outcome. It all seems to be about scraping off the pesky foreigners and making sure they do not come here. Everything else seems to be secondary to that goal.
It's the real world, though. The UK's negotiating leverage as a second tier country will not be that significant with a country that has an economy the size of South Korea's. Now imagine the situation with countries like the US, China and India.
This point - that the bargaining leverage was greater inside the EU than the UK could ever achieve alone - was made repeatedly during the referendum, but dismissed by Leave fanatics on the basis that we were such a big economy on our own that the world would be so eager to offer us whatever we wanted.
Is there a map for the ACTUAL route of HS2. Would be useful seeing ad I am trying to move house round the Sheffield part and all... Station plans would be good too
As a businessman, to me, the Customs Union is far more important. There is no way the referendum result conflicts with that. Turkey is in the CU and does not have any rights under FoM. I agree the single market is problematical since it is interlinked with Freedom of movement.
Apart from the ECJ, the Customs Union is the one bit we definitely want to leave. If we are inside it we are unable to make our own trade deals but will still not get the benefit of the single market. Far better to take the Norway Option, stay in the Single Market but leave the Customs Union.
AFAIK Denmark has at least three if not four opt-outs one of which allows it to restrict property sales to foreigners. Blocking free movement of capital surely is as much a 'red light' to the EU as freedom of movement of labour under the Treaty of Rome?
Denmark seems to manage to get on with the EU, stay inside, yet negotiate about as much special treatment as the UK wants.
There seems to be a suggestion that Korean car manufacturers have had to agree a no compete clause on car emissions?
There was an agreement that neither the EU not the Korean government would use emission standards as NTBs. Pretty much any major FTA we sign will have similar provisions.
Beverley_C - I suppose we must have paid, in today's money, about 1/2 trillion pounds to benefit from a free trade agreement with the EU? Perhaps, reading that link below, the extra legal work we might get from Korea makes it all worth it? But all sorts of agreements are London law anyway... and come to court here anyway.
Well if we bandying around sloppy figures, 43 years of our current trade with the EU is equivalent of about £21tn or over 40 times as much as that membership fee. And your point is?
The EU brought other benefits too, but what is the point? Leavers seem to want to leave regardless of any outcome. It all seems to be about scraping off the pesky foreigners and making sure they do not come here. Everything else seems to be secondary to that goal.
err right
so we have to pay them to give us a huge trade deficit
In addition to the points raised in the article, Korea felt they got the worse of the deal with the EU. They won't actually want to replicate it with the UK.
It depends what you mean by "better deal". The UK should be quite happy to offer deeper and more liberal access to its markets, particularly in services, than the EU.
I see a few things the EU excluded - such as media and digital - we wouldn't have a problem with.
Trade deals are a win-win.
The litmus test for this approach is how willing we would be to open up services to competition from low-wage countries with lots of English speakers. What are the chances we will offer Indian solicitors the ability to provide conveyancing services?
It's the real world, though. The UK's negotiating leverage as a second tier country will not be that significant with a country that has an economy the size of South Korea's. Now imagine the situation with countries like the US, China and India.
This point - that the bargaining leverage was greater inside the EU than the UK could ever achieve alone - was made repeatedly during the referendum, but dismissed by Leave fanatics on the basis that we were such a big economy on our own that the world would be so eager to offer us whatever we wanted.
yeah youve sort of missed the point
a deal tailored to the EUs desires is not as good as one tailored to our own requirements
It's the real world, though. The UK's negotiating leverage as a second tier country will not be that significant with a country that has an economy the size of South Korea's. Now imagine the situation with countries like the US, China and India.
This point - that the bargaining leverage was greater inside the EU than the UK could ever achieve alone - was made repeatedly during the referendum, but dismissed by Leave fanatics on the basis that we were such a big economy on our own that the world would be so eager to offer us whatever we wanted.
yeah youve sort of missed the point
a deal tailored to the EUs desires is not as good as one tailored to our own requirements
Do you think 'our own requirements' will cater to the needs of Nottinghamshire any more at the UK level than they do at the EU level?
Is there a map for the ACTUAL route of HS2. Would be useful seeing ad I am trying to move house round the Sheffield part and all... Station plans would be good too
Here, it's a disaster waiting to happen, the HS2 station is going to Meadowhall, because we all know Meadowhall never suffers traffic congestion.
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
It's the real world, though. The UK's negotiating leverage as a second tier country will not be that significant with a country that has an economy the size of South Korea's. Now imagine the situation with countries like the US, China and India.
This point - that the bargaining leverage was greater inside the EU than the UK could ever achieve alone - was made repeatedly during the referendum, but dismissed by Leave fanatics on the basis that we were such a big economy on our own that the world would be so eager to offer us whatever we wanted.
yeah youve sort of missed the point
a deal tailored to the EUs desires is not as good as one tailored to our own requirements
Do you think 'our own requirements' will cater to the needs of Nottinghamshire any more at the UK level than they do at the EU level?
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
It's the real world, though. The UK's negotiating leverage as a second tier country will not be that significant with a country that has an economy the size of South Korea's. Now imagine the situation with countries like the US, China and India.
This point - that the bargaining leverage was greater inside the EU than the UK could ever achieve alone - was made repeatedly during the referendum, but dismissed by Leave fanatics on the basis that we were such a big economy on our own that the world would be so eager to offer us whatever we wanted.
yeah youve sort of missed the point
a deal tailored to the EUs desires is not as good as one tailored to our own requirements
Do you think 'our own requirements' will cater to the needs of Nottinghamshire any more at the UK level than they do at the EU level?
yes, it's a smaller demos
Yes, much easier for London to dominate a country than a continent.
Of course the 1/2 trillion is real money from real people's pockets, and the trade isn't all profit - and in anycase is vastly in the wrong direction. I am very struck to compare how other countries have rebuilt their towns with our money, and how our towns have deteriorated at the same time.
It's the real world, though. The UK's negotiating leverage as a second tier country will not be that significant with a country that has an economy the size of South Korea's. Now imagine the situation with countries like the US, China and India.
This point - that the bargaining leverage was greater inside the EU than the UK could ever achieve alone - was made repeatedly during the referendum, but dismissed by Leave fanatics on the basis that we were such a big economy on our own that the world would be so eager to offer us whatever we wanted.
yeah youve sort of missed the point
a deal tailored to the EUs desires is not as good as one tailored to our own requirements
Do you think 'our own requirements' will cater to the needs of Nottinghamshire any more at the UK level than they do at the EU level?
yes, it's a smaller demos
Yes, much easier for London to dominate a country than a continent.
to a point
when they overegg it the rest of the country hits back, hence brexit
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
what are they ?
Well maybe health, housing, dementia care, the growing problems of young peoples debt, the deficit to name a few. These are the things that responsible politicians should be looking at not their fantacy world of who is prime minister and sacred cows.
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
what are they ?
Well maybe health, housing, dementia care, the growing problems of young peoples debt, the deficit to name a few. These are the things that responsible politicians should be looking at not their fantacy world of who is prime minister and sacred cows.
of course, so maybe you'll just stop ranting on about Brexit and discuss the issues at hand
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
what are they ?
Well maybe health, housing, dementia care, the growing problems of young peoples debt, the deficit to name a few. These are the things that responsible politicians should be looking at not their fantacy world of who is prime minister and sacred cows.
of course, so maybe you'll just stop ranting on about Brexit and discuss the issues at hand
TSE permitting natch
Actually i dont rant on i express an opinion very rarely, if at all i respect others point of view and when i do post hope fore a similar response.
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
what are they ?
Well maybe health, housing, dementia care, the growing problems of young peoples debt, the deficit to name a few. These are the things that responsible politicians should be looking at not their fantacy world of who is prime minister and sacred cows.
of course, so maybe you'll just stop ranting on about Brexit and discuss the issues at hand
TSE permitting natch
Actually i dont rant on i express an opinion very rarely, if at all i respect others point of view and when i do post hope fore a similar response.
brexit brexit brexit
I cant recall a post of yours which didnt predict terminall decline
personally Ive been banging on about Uni fees, housing and lack of decent infrastructure for years and am quite happy to say so
Sits back and waits for incoming. What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit? They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
what are they ?
Well maybe health, housing, dementia care, the growing problems of young peoples debt, the deficit to name a few. These are the things that responsible politicians should be looking at not their fantacy world of who is prime minister and sacred cows.
of course, so maybe you'll just stop ranting on about Brexit and discuss the issues at hand
TSE permitting natch
Actually i dont rant on i express an opinion very rarely, if at all i respect others point of view and when i do post hope fore a similar response.
You must be mistaking me for someone else, any issues i raise are normally questions seeking information. Less than 400 posts in two or three years is hardley ranting. Although i have been here since 2004 in a different incarnation
Is there a map for the ACTUAL route of HS2. Would be useful seeing ad I am trying to move house round the Sheffield part and all... Station plans would be good too
Here, it's a disaster waiting to happen, the HS2 station is going to Meadowhall, because we all know Meadowhall never suffers traffic congestion.
"In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "
She won the election.
She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
She won the election.
As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?
Q: Who is Prime Minister right now? A:
That is a non sequitur though in that the DUP could switch sides without an election - and bring about a change of Government. In the case of a Hung Parliament no party actually 'wins' in that there is nothing inevitable about the largest party being able to form a Government.
"In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "
She won the election.
She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
She won the election.
As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?
Q: Who is Prime Minister right now? A:
That is a non sequitur though in that the DUP could switch sides without an election - and bring about a change of Government. In the case of a Hung Parliament no party actually 'wins' in that there is nothing inevitable about the largest party being able to form a Government.
AFAIK Denmark has at least three if not four opt-outs one of which allows it to restrict property sales to foreigners. Blocking free movement of capital surely is as much a 'red light' to the EU as freedom of movement of labour under the Treaty of Rome?
Denmark negotiated an opt out meaning there is a restriction on the sale of ownership of second properties to non residents. It applies equally to Danes living outside Denmark as well as to non Danes. As such everyone is treated equally whether they are Danish or another EU national. The equivalent would be to restrict the movement of UK citizens not resident in the UK so that the same restrictions could apply to all EU nationals.
"In earlier times she would have been toppled within days. "
She won the election.
She went into the election 3 years early to try increase her majority. She ended up losing a majority. That is failure.
She won the election.
As a neutral in this, can I suggest a simple way to decide this between you two easily, fairly, rationally and sensibly?
Q: Who is Prime Minister right now? A:
That is a non sequitur though in that the DUP could switch sides without an election - and bring about a change of Government. In the case of a Hung Parliament no party actually 'wins' in that there is nothing inevitable about the largest party being able to form a Government.
No way the DUP would back Corbyn
Very likely true - though not certain. It is entirely possible that they would prefer the continued leverage they would enjoy over a minority Government led by Corbyn to a majority Tory Government - were the polls to suggest that the latter was at all likely.
Comments
As a transitional arrangement, this makes a lot of sense, as it would dramatically reduce paperwork for firms who trade with the EU. Longer-term, we could work on putting in place technology (electronic manifests with appropriate spot checks) that would enable us to leave this arrangement without putting an undue burden on firms.
Brexit will just expose us to trade deals worse than we have now but it will OK because we will be able to elect our own govts. Err.....
I see a few things the EU excluded - such as media and digital - we wouldn't have a problem with.
Trade deals are a win-win.
The EU brought other benefits too, but what is the point? Leavers seem to want to leave regardless of any outcome. It all seems to be about scraping off the pesky foreigners and making sure they do not come here. Everything else seems to be secondary to that goal.
Station plans would be good too
Denmark seems to manage to get on with the EU, stay inside, yet negotiate about as much special treatment as the UK wants.
https://twitter.com/michaellcrick/status/886994698606440448
so we have to pay them to give us a huge trade deficit
how does that work ?
a deal tailored to the EUs desires is not as good as one tailored to our own requirements
“This is block war, this is it, this is beef, innit. No snitching, simple as that. No snitching.
In the war on the mandem, if someone got acid on their face, trust me, they did something. No ifs, no buts, they deserved that."
https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/887007744644980736
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/536075/South_Yorkshire_Station_Options_Report_07072016.pdf
What is wrong with our politicians deciding tha leaving is wrong and will cause more pain than benefit?
They should have the courage of their convictions and say "no way Jose" ride the storm and see what happens. This is far bigger than the future of political parties and careers its our future. The "people" don't really care they just want whats best for them and their families. We have far bigger fish to fry
one minute youre telling us brexit is the biggest thing ever, next minute we have bigger fish to fry
what are they ?
when they overegg it the rest of the country hits back, hence brexit
TSE permitting natch
I cant recall a post of yours which didnt predict terminall decline
personally Ive been banging on about Uni fees, housing and lack of decent infrastructure for years and am quite happy to say so
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