politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why people voted Labour or Tory at the general election

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

freetochoose said:

SouthamObserver said:

freetochoose said:

SouthamObserver said:

freetochoose said:

SouthamObserver said:

freetochoose said:

SouthamObserver said:

freetochoose said:

Well I never not a single labour voter mentioned Brexit despite a handful of lefties on here droning on all day about it.

I'm beginning to realise the penny will never drop for you poor souls.

Anti-Tory, anti-Theresa May = anti-Tory Brexit

More delusion. Just accept it mate, the tories are obsessed with Brexit, your lot don't give a toss, never have.

My lot absolutely do care about Brexit. The Labour leadership doesn't, I grant.

Well I'm afraid to say your lot are a small minority - you have read the thread header as well as previous similar ones?

Anti-Tories, anti-Mays are a decent sized minority.

Of course, the anti tories have always been there, always will, its nothing to do with Brexit. Only you and a few others on here need treatment for your obsession. I'm opening a Priory type home specialising in Brexit rehab.

I fully accept the referendum result, even though I regret it. What terrifies me is the complete mess the government is making of the withdrawal process and the damage its incompetence will cause.

You need to relax, you are becoming increasingly shrill and hyperbolic, every survey shows that nobody is either listening or concerned. You are a doom merchant, everybody avoids them.

Yes, I get that you do not like my views. As you are a Brexit fundamentalist that is no surprise. But the fact is that the government is hopelessly split and has no coherent Brexit strategy. That is very bad news for the UK's prospects.

Saw a slice of McDonnell's interview with Marr.

Accuses the Tories of wanting an anti-UK Brexit for ideological reasons, while they are the patriots.

Amazing. Trotskyite's obviously have no love for ideology, while Tories ae reading their little blue book. I think I've heard it all now. When I were't lad, it were opposite (for Mr Dancer).

King Cole, Blair's an anti-Cassandra. He was listened to on WMD, and action taken, and he was wholly wrong.

Edited extra bit: hope your medical situation is improving, incidentally.

Not a great fan of Hammond but a very mature interview with Marr this morning - seems to infer hard Brexiteers like Tim Shipman causing the problems

Hammond making clear just how split the Tories are. If it were not so damaging for the UK, it would be highly entertaining.

DecrepitJohnL said:

eek said:

I now have a new Hero for top class trolling from the front page of today's Sunday Times. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/amanda-spielman-of-ofsted-warns-about-impact-of-new-gcses-rqnqm30lg

In one school she visited she was horrified — and said parents would be “surprised” — to see a class of 11-year-olds taken through GCSE mark schemes instead of being taught geography.

In my day, we did not do this.

One reason exam pass rates went up year on year is that teachers and pupils became far more sophisticated in exam technique. We coffin-dodgers were expected to learn maths, say, or history, and then answer whatever questions were thrown at us.

These days, teachers teach narrowly to the test and pupils are drilled into how to analyse questions to provide exactly what is demanded -- even if they know nothing. If the question is about triangles but you can remember neither geometry nor trigonometry, then before skipping to the next question, at least draw a flaming triangle because there will be 1 or 2 marks (out of 20) for that tiny part of the full, correct answer.

One reason for doing this is that the exams are returning to what they were 30 years ago (exams count, coursework is only a minor percentage of your final mark). Now I don't agree with what the teacher did but it was an absolute first class display of the displeasure of that teacher and whoever ensured that the head of Ofsted saw that lesson..

What is a coherent Brexit strategy? UK laws for UK people and the best economic deal available on those terms.

That is coherent. Now what's the problem?

Mr Cole ... best wishes for the future.

CD13 said:

What is a coherent Brexit strategy? UK laws for UK people and the best economic deal available on those terms.

That is coherent. Now what's the problem?

You've described an outcome, not a plan.

AlastairMeeks said:

Is this another thread where numerous posters miss the point that only the main reason was asked for?

What stands out for me is how much of the Conservative vote was anti-Labour or anti-Corbyn. The equivalent among Labour supporters is much lower. Labour have serious brand problems.

What gave it away, the fact the Labour party under Corbyn still comfortabel lost, or the fact that May still ranks as a better PM than Corbyn despite Labours current poll lead?

tlg86 said:

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

So I think we can assume that Hammond did make the comment about the public sector being overpaid but perhaps the comment about women being train drivers wasn't true. That was very strong attack on the unions implying that they are responsible for 95% of train drivers being male.

I don't like Hammond's politics, but he's an impressive performer. He answers the questions he's asked.

Yes, I don't like him (probably for different reasons to you!), but I don't get why people say that replacing May with him would be pointless. I think he's a very different type of politician.

He is on a different level to May and most of the rest of the cabinet. A serious grown-up who is prepared to engage on the basis that voters are too.

IanB2 said:

Indeed I was thinking yeterday that the middle class's traditional support for the Tories rests principally on trusting their safer hands on the economy and otherwise wanting to be left alone. Consequently the Tories get in when they focus in economic competence, and get turfed out whenever Tories delude themselves that the support they get indicates desire for all the other Tory-political stuff, which in reality few people want. Labour and Tory being pretty much level in middle class support right now is striking.

The Tories' biggest problem right now is that their political obsession with the EU has once again led them to wander away from managing the economy.

It`s actually a problem inherent in the voting system. The myth is that, if one party gets an overall majority of sets, this somehow proves that most electors endorse all the policies that were in that party`s manifesto.

If a voter this time round cast his vote in favour of the Conservative candidate on the grounds that they represented greater economic stability - strange in itself, since their Brexit mania is set to wreck the economy - this certainly does not mean that the country wanted the reintroduction of grammar schools, or the selling off of the NHS to American interests.

What we need is a voting system which allows people to discriminate more among an assortment of candidates, with different, overlapping views. The case of Mr Smithson`s colleagues voting Labour in Vauxhall in order to oppose Brexit is a case in point.

felix said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/whats-labour-going-to-do-with-the-middle-classes/

Yes - some of the M/C altruism is really rather convenient.

Well worth a read, even if his hint of some sort of far right or far-left counter-reaction appears far fetched.

eek said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

eek said:

I now have a new Hero for top class trolling from the front page of today's Sunday Times. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/amanda-spielman-of-ofsted-warns-about-impact-of-new-gcses-rqnqm30lg

In one school she visited she was horrified — and said parents would be “surprised” — to see a class of 11-year-olds taken through GCSE mark schemes instead of being taught geography.

In my day, we did not do this.

One reason exam pass rates went up year on year is that teachers and pupils became far more sophisticated in exam technique. We coffin-dodgers were expected to learn maths, say, or history, and then answer whatever questions were thrown at us.

These days, teachers teach narrowly to the test and pupils are drilled into how to analyse questions to provide exactly what is demanded -- even if they know nothing. If the question is about triangles but you can remember neither geometry nor trigonometry, then before skipping to the next question, at least draw a flaming triangle because there will be 1 or 2 marks (out of 20) for that tiny part of the full, correct answer.

One reason for doing this is that the exams are returning to what they were 30 years ago (exams count, coursework is only a minor percentage of your final mark). Now I don't agree with what the teacher did but it was an absolute first class display of the displeasure of that teacher and whoever ensured that the head of Ofsted saw that lesson..

By chance yesterday, I stumbled upon a biology revision web site written by a teacher who advised pupils to concentrate on topics A, B and C because D, E and F had already been covered on the first paper.

foxinsoxuk said:

rkrkrk said:

Very interesting polling.
Suggests Brexit not that significant for Labour voters?

And also that the manifesto and policies were a clear positive for Labour.
Logically then they should keep them for next time around.

All parties rushed their manifestos because of the snap election, so none were as fettled as they should be. It is quite likely that Labour will be better prepared next time.

I cannot see May enjoying the conference season. Surely she is toasted enough already?

I think she will hang on but hard to tell.
Not convinced any of the Tories really want to take over just now?

DecrepitJohnL said:

eek said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

eek said:

I now have a new Hero for top class trolling from the front page of today's Sunday Times. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/amanda-spielman-of-ofsted-warns-about-impact-of-new-gcses-rqnqm30lg

In one school she visited she was horrified — and said parents would be “surprised” — to see a class of 11-year-olds taken through GCSE mark schemes instead of being taught geography.

In my day, we did not do this.

One reason exam pass rates went up year on year is that teachers and pupils became far more sophisticated in exam technique. We coffin-dodgers were expected to learn maths, say, or history, and then answer whatever questions were thrown at us.

These days, teachers teach narrowly to the test and pupils are drilled into how to analyse questions to provide exactly what is demanded -- even if they know nothing. If the question is about triangles but you can remember neither geometry nor trigonometry, then before skipping to the next question, at least draw a flaming triangle because there will be 1 or 2 marks (out of 20) for that tiny part of the full, correct answer.

One reason for doing this is that the exams are returning to what they were 30 years ago (exams count, coursework is only a minor percentage of your final mark). Now I don't agree with what the teacher did but it was an absolute first class display of the displeasure of that teacher and whoever ensured that the head of Ofsted saw that lesson..

By chance yesterday, I stumbled upon a biology revision web site written by a teacher who advised pupils to concentrate on topics A, B and C because D, E and F had already been covered on the first paper.

Back in the 40’s we were drilled in the sort or answers required to pass the 11+. I can recall giving the ‘wrong’ answer to a question and arguing with the teacher.

DecrepitJohnL said:

IanB2 said:

felix said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/whats-labour-going-to-do-with-the-middle-classes/

Yes - some of the M/C altruism is really rather convenient.

Well worth a read, even if his hint of some sort of far right or far-left counter-reaction appears far fetched.

I'm not convinced Hugo Rifkind's article is not just a more sophisticated version of what we often see here. Voting Conservative is so self-evidently correct that the only conceivable reason people vote for the other lot is that they have been bribed. As political analysis, it does not get you very far.

I took his argument more as a challenge to Labour - who are getting pushed into more and more positions that actually favour better off people (reference the IFS analysis of its recent manifesto compared, say, to the more redistributive LibDem proposals) - than as any reason to vote Conservative. Rifkind indeed says himself that the Tories have been stung by their ham fisted first attempt to address the issue in relation to care.

calum said:

Fruit farmer's perspective on BREXIT
https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/886516389254762496

"the horticulture sector is about to be launched right into the Brexit slurry pit with everyone else, thanks to some naïve and ignorant misconceptions about migrant workers."

https://twitter.com/MarrShow/status/886504895452389376

williamglenn said:

CD13 said:

What is a coherent Brexit strategy? UK laws for UK people and the best economic deal available on those terms.

That is coherent. Now what's the problem?

You've described an outcome, not a plan.

It's not really an outcome or a plan. It's a constraint or, if you will, a negotiating guideline. A plan would resolve the trade-offs. "This means that". They haven't spelt it out because the constraint is not widely accepted and in fact contradicts the have your cake and eat it promise of the Leave campaign. "UK laws for UK people and the best economic deal available on those terms" at its most literal drastically closes down the options when most people want and expected continuity.

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/whats-labour-going-to-do-with-the-middle-classes/

Yes - some of the M/C altruism is really rather convenient.

It's in everyone's interests that the state redistributes wealth to ensure everyone has a decent stanard if living that includes access to good public services.

Of course - except too often when it comes down to it people much prefer other people's wealth distributed to them! The reality is that is a very large amount of redistribution which would have to include a hit on the m/c which they do not seem to be so keen on. Much easier to stick with the myth that all the money could come from greedy bankers, Philip Green and some footballers.

The simple fact is that there has never been more wealth in the UK. A lot of very rich people and cash-rich companies choose to keep money they could never hope to spend offshore rather than see some of it redistributed via taxation. That's what leads to growing support for the kibd of left wing populism that Corbyn Labour represents.

The other simple fact is that there has never been more debt in the UK. Its something Corbyn will never address, which is why Labour govts always ruin the economy

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/whats-labour-going-to-do-with-the-middle-classes/

Yes - some of the M/C altruism is really rather convenient.

It's in everyone's interests that the state redistributes wealth to ensure everyone has a decent stanard if living that includes access to good public services.

Of course - except too often when it comes down to it people much prefer other people's wealth distributed to them! The reality is that is a very large amount of redistribution which would have to include a hit on the m/c which they do not seem to be so keen on. Much easier to stick with the myth that all the money could come from greedy bankers, Philip Green and some footballers.

The simple fact is that there has never been more wealth in the UK. A lot of very rich people and cash-rich companies choose to keep money they could never hope to spend offshore rather than see some of it redistributed via taxation. That's what leads to growing support for the kibd of left wing populism that Corbyn Labour represents.

And a lot more m/c people are very happy to let people on low incomes pay for their children's university fees, the health service...... and other universal benefits and hope that no-one notices.

They should move to Scotland and the SNP government would give them "free" prescriptions too.....

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/whats-labour-going-to-do-with-the-middle-classes/

Yes - some of the M/C altruism is really rather convenient.

It's in everyone's interests that the state redistributes wealth to ensure everyone has a decent stanard if living that includes access to good public services.

Of course - except too often when it comes down to it people much prefer other people's wealth distributed to them! The reality is that is a very large amount of redistribution which would have to include a hit on the m/c which they do not seem to be so keen on. Much easier to stick with the myth that all the money could come from greedy bankers, Philip Green and some footballers.

The simple fact is that there has never been more wealth in the UK. A lot of very rich people and cash-rich companies choose to keep money they could never hope to spend offshore rather than see some of it redistributed via taxation. That's what leads to growing support for the kibd of left wing populism that Corbyn Labour represents.

And a lot more m/c people are very happy to let people on low incomes pay for their children's university fees, the health service...... and other universal benefits and hope that no-one notices.

So what's the solution? Higher taxes for the middle class or lower spending on services? I know which I'd go for.

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

SandyRentool said:

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

Not if we leave the customs union.

SouthamObserver said:

SandyRentool said:

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

Not if we leave the customs union.

Back to the old days of two and a half bottles of wine and half a bottle of spirits per person?

SouthamObserver said:

SandyRentool said:

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

Not if we leave the customs union.

A boost for British booze retailers. Another Brexit bonus.

Jeez, England's use and lack of use of reviews in this match have been shocking.

tlg86 said:

Liam Fox just made it very clear who he thinks is responsible for the leaks from cabinet.

Didn't watch it, who does he think is responsible?

SandyRentool said:

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

I knew about the industrial ethanol and now that I think about it I see more than a few mobile butter mountains wobbling about the streets. And there will be many more sat of their lard arse mountains.

CarlottaVance said:

First it was the Michelin starred restaurants....now its au pairs......no wonder the commentariat are Remoaning:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/its-an-utter-disaster-darling-brexit-is-deterring-au-pairs-6rc6bnx2l

https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/885865706256039936

another_richard said:

SandyRentool said:

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

I knew about the industrial ethanol and now that I think about it I see more than a few mobile butter mountains wobbling about the streets. And there will be many more sat of their lard arse mountains.

When we used to eat a lot more butter and lard, we were a lot thinner.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I really should do a thread on this, or should I?

Could Boris Johnson's love life block his route to Number 10?

'Tory bible' editor claims the ever-aspiring Foreign Secretary could be 'exposed' after ruthless rivals begin 'shadow leadership campaign' to take over from Theresa May

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699990/Could-Boris-Johnson-s-love-life-block-route-Number-10.html

Surely everybody knows about bonking Boris liking of the ladies?

This Tory shadow war is very entertaining. The autobiographies that come out after they've all destroyed each other are going to be great.

volcanopete said:

Average annual income for a lollipop lady is £3187,bloody overpaid public servants.How dare they demand such an extravagent lifestyle when there always the Foodbank?

That seems rather excessive seeing as they should be doing 400 hours of work per year at most.

There are doubtless public sector workers who are underpaid but I'd chose a better example than lollipop ladies if I were you.

Luckyguy1983 said:

another_richard said:

SandyRentool said:

another_richard said:

rcs1000 said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

CarlottaVance said:

“His promises of reform are beyond parody. He’s away with the fairies.”

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4027310/delusional-tony-blair-slammed-for-claiming-eu-wants-to-do-a-deal-on-migrants-to-block-brexit/

Blair may be wrong but why is it delusional to suggest that (say) Angela Merkel has any great objection in principle to the sort of controls her own government imposed until recently?

keine Rosinen herauszupicken

Would you buy a reformed CAP from Mr Blair?

Doesn't that undermine your point? Blair is saying the EU (or country) leaders will make small concessions to keep us in -- like allowing the sort of transitional controls they had till 2011 or, indeed, making tweaks to CAP (and notice we no longer hear of wine lakes and butter mountains).

That's because the EU uses their own version of D Notices to prevent the press from accurately reporting what's going on.

What up sheeple.

Do the wine lakes and butter mountains still exist ?

Surplus crap wine is used to produce industrial ethanol.

Or sold in Calais to Brits.

I knew about the industrial ethanol and now that I think about it I see more than a few mobile butter mountains wobbling about the streets. And there will be many more sat of their lard arse mountains.

When we used to eat a lot more butter and lard, we were a lot thinner.

Increased sugar and a change in lifestyles are major factors.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I really should do a thread on this, or should I?

Could Boris Johnson's love life block his route to Number 10?

'Tory bible' editor claims the ever-aspiring Foreign Secretary could be 'exposed' after ruthless rivals begin 'shadow leadership campaign' to take over from Theresa May

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699990/Could-Boris-Johnson-s-love-life-block-route-Number-10.html

Matthew Pariss was making less than subtle hints about this in a column a few weeks back.

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

SouthamObserver said:

felix said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/whats-labour-going-to-do-with-the-middle-classes/

Yes - some of the M/C altruism is really rather convenient.

It's in everyone's interests that the state redistributes wealth to ensure everyone has a decent stanard if living that includes access to good public services.

Of course - except too often when it comes down to it people much prefer other people's wealth distributed to them! The reality is that is a very large amount of redistribution which would have to include a hit on the m/c which they do not seem to be so keen on. Much easier to stick with the myth that all the money could come from greedy bankers, Philip Green and some footballers.

The simple fact is that there has never been more wealth in the UK. A lot of very rich people and cash-rich companies choose to keep money they could never hope to spend offshore rather than see some of it redistributed via taxation. That's what leads to growing support for the kibd of left wing populism that Corbyn Labour represents.

And a lot more m/c people are very happy to let people on low incomes pay for their children's university fees, the health service...... and other universal benefits and hope that no-one notices.

So what's the solution? Higher taxes for the middle class or lower spending on services? I know which I'd go for.

Oh indeed - I agree but I would get rid of some universal benefits including some for pensioners to ease the pain. One area in health of interest is dentistry. Here in Spain it is outside the NHS apart from children. Interestingly the private charges are generally the same as the UK NHS or cheaper - my implants here would have cost 50% more in the UK!

Dentist charges vary hugely from surgery to surgery in my experience. The same treatments can cost hundreds of pounds more, even thousands, depending on the dentist.

619 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I really should do a thread on this, or should I?

Could Boris Johnson's love life block his route to Number 10?

'Tory bible' editor claims the ever-aspiring Foreign Secretary could be 'exposed' after ruthless rivals begin 'shadow leadership campaign' to take over from Theresa May

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699990/Could-Boris-Johnson-s-love-life-block-route-Number-10.html

Surely everybody knows about bonking Boris liking of the ladies?

As somebody put it to me the other day, which of the Tory candidates is likely to be ensnared by a Russian honey trap.

Didnt stop Trump becoming president

We have much higher standards in this country than those bloody colonials.

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

Liam Fox just made it very clear who he thinks is responsible for the leaks from cabinet.

Didn't watch it, who does he think is responsible?

He said that the person responsible has been drinking too much prosecco.

Well that narrows it down......eliminating Mrs May, who tipples modestly and Mr Corbyn who's teetotal* wasn't invited.....

*Ken - any other teetotal politicians you'd care to mention?

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MarrShow/status/886504895452389376

I was thinking of an expletive when I saw this, and I didn't even vote Labour. This right here is McDonnell admitting that it's all a con. He comes across more and more as a man with a deep seated grudge towards anyone to the right of him as opposed to someone interested in providing solutions to Britain's problems.

No doubt, we'll see the cult of Corbyn attempt to spin this.

Especially for Mr Dancer - the leader of the Yorkshire Party is on the Sunday Politics regional bit.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I really should do a thread on this, or should I?

Could Boris Johnson's love life block his route to Number 10?

'Tory bible' editor claims the ever-aspiring Foreign Secretary could be 'exposed' after ruthless rivals begin 'shadow leadership campaign' to take over from Theresa May

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699990/Could-Boris-Johnson-s-love-life-block-route-Number-10.html

This isn't America. Most people won't care about what Boris does in his private life. There are plenty of other reasons to not want to see him in N.10 as PM.

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

Liam Fox just made it very clear who he thinks is responsible for the leaks from cabinet.

Didn't watch it, who does he think is responsible?

He said that the person responsible has been drinking too much prosecco.

Cheers.

I'm assuming he's having a dig at that fine Cambridge gentleman, Andrew Mitchell.

I was thinking he was suggesting Boris Johnson, but perhaps not.

It was the prosecco that made me think Andrew Mitchell because of this from a few days ago.

Theresa May's allies have accused Tory MPs calling for Theresa May to stand down of drinking "too much warm Prosecco" at Summer Parties.

Andrew Mitchell, a former Tory Cabinet minister, reportedly told a private dinner that Mrs May is "dead in the water", has "lost her authority" and is "weak".

David Lidington, the Justice Secretary, dismissed the suggestion. He said: "The Summer parties are the key too this. I have been in Parliament for almost 25 years and almost every July the combination of too much Sun and too much warm Prosecco leads to gossipy stories in the media.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/09/theresa-may-ally-accuses-tory-mps-calling-quit-drinking-much/

Dura_Ace said:

SouthamObserver said:

Dentist charges vary hugely from surgery to surgery in my experience. The same treatments can cost hundreds of pounds more, even thousands, depending on the dentist.

Mrs Ace's experience in private practice is that the more she charges the more referrals and glowing reviews she gets. Consequently, she is very expensive.

Dentistry is the perfect example of a Giffen good - you only have one set of teeth so can't afford to gamble with them. And as people don't have any other way to judge quality price used (the more expensive the dentist, clearly the better they are)..