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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If there were a Newton Abbot by election this year, the Tories are the 1/25 favourites
Paddy Power have a market up on a theoretical Newton Abbot by election were Ann Marie Morris resign following her use of the n word. I’m not playing this market, I suspect all stakes will become an interest free loan to Paddy Power for nearly six month and I’ve got better things to do with my money.
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There won't be.0
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I just posted before GeoffM and my post has disappeared?!
I did post First like Tony Blair when he fought his first GE, but now I have amended it to second like Jeremy Corbyn after he failed to win the last GE.
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Your post was in a time differential between dual GMT - Greenwich Mean Time and Gibraltar Mean Time with the latter having the advantage of being a tax haven for overseas PBers not paying reverse TAV - Taxing Alternative Vote threads.fitalass said:I just posted before GeoffM and my post has disappeared?!
I did post First like Tony Blair when he fought his first GE, but now I have amended it to second like Jeremy Corbyn after he failed to win the last GE.
Hope that is clear ....0 -
Fourth
In times gone by the LDs were close to winning (the predecessor seat was LibDem 2001-10) and this should be a target for them. It doesn't look like a seat Labour could ever win.0 -
Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
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Crystal..JackW said:
Your post was in a time differential between dual GMT - Greenwich Mean Time and Gibraltar Mean Time with the latter having the advantage of being a tax haven for overseas PBers not paying reverse TAV - Taxing Alternative Vote threads.fitalass said:I just posted before GeoffM and my post has disappeared?!
I did post First like Tony Blair when he fought his first GE, but now I have amended it to second like Jeremy Corbyn after he failed to win the last GE.
Hope that is clear ....
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Rebuilding institutions is clearly more straightforward than establishing institutions in the first place. The object of the Marshall Plan was to get the institutions of mostly previously democratic states (Germany remaining under military occupation) up and running asap to prevent communism gaining a foothold in the chaos. The challenges Africa faces are of a wholly different nature.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
Macron is making a reasonable and intelligent point, and does not appear to be arguing that the existing aid has failed to make an impact; in key areas like primary education and healthcare, clearly it has. But these are long term structural improvements, not quick five-year fixes.0 -
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
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Yep I totally agree, but many on Twitter are arguing that what Macron was said racist.IanB2 said:
Rebuilding institutions is clearly more straightforward than establishing institutions in the first place. The object of the Marshall Plan was to get the institutions of mostly previously democratic states (Germany remaining under military occupation) up and running asap to prevent communism gaining a foothold in the chaos. The challenges Africa faces are of a wholly different nature.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
Macron is making a reasonable and intelligent point, and does not appear to be arguing that the existing aid has failed to make an impact; in key areas like primary education and healthcare, clearly it has. But these are long term structural improvements, not quick five-year fixes.
I'm not kidding - you're getting a lot of this kind of thing:
https://twitter.com/umbyrella/status/884584410200383490
https://twitter.com/joeprince___/status/884515568312823809
Alt-righters and Conservative sites like the Daily Caller are claiming that Macron has 'angered' his fans with what he's said here - nope, the people angry about what he's said are Corbyn, Sanders and Melenchon supporters: they never supported Macron in the first place.0 -
Politicians must surely realise by now that they are likely to be recorded at any meeting they attend and every word will be scrutinised. Given the current Parliamentary maths and Brexit being a very divisive issue, there are going to be worse situations than the 'N' word being used by an non PC MP. The party whips offices will be on constant alert to try to put out fires, but given how quick it is these days to post stories, sound clips, videos etc on social media, they face an impossible task.
I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.0 -
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
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I don't think the current political situation should have anything to do with it. If an MP has behaved in a way that behoves them to resign (which I dont think is the case here tbh) then they should resign, regardless of whether the Govt has a majority of 100 or 0 MPsRichard_H said:Politicians must surely realise by now that they are likely to be recorded at any meeting they attend and every word will be scrutinised. Given the current Parliamentary maths and Brexit being a very divisive issue, there are going to be worse situations than the 'N' word being used by an non PC MP. The party whips offices will be on constant alert to try to put out fires, but given how quick it is these days to post stories, sound clips, videos etc on social media, they face an impossible task.
I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.0 -
This is getting almost as silly as the US academic who had to resign over his use of the word "niggardly" (entirely unrelated to "nigger", and while I am on the subject can we not say "nigger" in quotes among adults?) The fuss over this is 50x what anyone ever heard about Labour's anti-semitism, and it isn't as if Labour's problem with that was one MP using the word "kike" once.
Having said that, TMay suddenly looks unlucky in the way Major looked unlucky from 93 onwards. It isn't as if it's the PM's fault that a backbencher auto asphyxiates, but it felt as if it was. Perhaps TMay will shortly set up a #motorwaycones twitter account.0 -
And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash. Someone in Parliament claiming to represent the views of the public should be well aware that such language is unacceptable to the vast majority. It's one of the basic qualifications for the job.0
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#back2basics ?Ishmael_Z said:This is getting almost as silly as the US academic who had to resign over his use of the word "niggardly" (entirely unrelated to "nigger", and while I am on the subject can we not say "nigger" in quotes among adults?) The fuss over this is 50x what anyone ever heard about Labour's anti-semitism, and it isn't as if Labour's problem with that was one MP using the word "kike" once.
Having said that, TMay suddenly looks unlucky in the way Major looked unlucky from 93 onwards. It isn't as if it's the PM's fault that a backbencher auto asphyxiates, but it felt as if it was. Perhaps TMay will shortly set up a #motorwaycones twitter account.0 -
I'm bored of this now.CarlottaVance said:
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
The media certainty weren't revving up the Outrage Bus when all of the anti-Jewish stuff was doing the rounds from the left ... so why should we allow that to slide past but now buy a ticket for this particular charabanc?0 -
Macron is saying there are too many black African babies. That's pretty bold, I'm not sure if it is sensible.rcs1000 said:
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/8845345954667847700 -
Trouble is, quick (and often dirty) five year fixes are what ‘we, the people’ want. Or at least what newspaper editors and on-line commentators want.IanB2 said:
Rebuilding institutions is clearly more straightforward than establishing institutions in the first place. The object of the Marshall Plan was to get the institutions of mostly previously democratic states (Germany remaining under military occupation) up and running asap to prevent communism gaining a foothold in the chaos. The challenges Africa faces are of a wholly different nature.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
Macron is making a reasonable and intelligent point, and does not appear to be arguing that the existing aid has failed to make an impact; in key areas like primary education and healthcare, clearly it has. But these are long term structural improvements, not quick five-year fixes.
I agree primary education and healthcare are making a difference, and will assist, in the long-term with reducing population growth.0 -
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
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Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
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Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
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As you say 'sort of apologised'CarlottaVance said:
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
May at least knows she needed to take swift action and didnt try to explain it away.0 -
I am writing this from Madagascar...a beautiful country but where the infrastructure has almost collapsed since the French left (in the 70s?)..and the only significant investment apart from some very nice hotels aimed at rich French tourists ...is by Chinese mining companies (who are quietly colonising Eastern Africa).
But everything else is a chaotic shambles...chronic poverty...street crime... corruption....
Macron is right.0 -
And while I detest colonialism in all forms, there is a strong case to be made for it in places like Madagascar...0
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Ha ha ha haCarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
Yeah aside from her filmed racism, what OTHER evidence do you have?
In a way, the people having a go at her are the real intolerant people0 -
There's no reason for her to resign her seat, so I don't think the issue arises.
And, the Conservatives are nowhere near as unpopular now as 1993.0 -
Absolutely. The Tories need to come up with a 'Poll Tax' to plumb the depths of 1993......Sean_F said:There's no reason for her to resign her seat, so I don't think the issue arises.
And, the Conservatives are nowhere near as unpopular now as 1993.0 -
There was something on the web yesterday which implied that, either from her or her husband/partner/agent.CarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
http://www.devonlive.com/anne-marie-morris-distances-herself-from-vile-racist-remark-made-by-her-agent-at-hustings-event/story-30365953-detail/story.html0 -
Suspending the whip has killed the story.GeoffM said:
I'm bored of this now.CarlottaVance said:
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
The media certainty weren't revving up the Outrage Bus when all of the anti-Jewish stuff was doing the rounds from the left ... so why should we allow that to slide past but now buy a ticket for this particular charabanc?0 -
It has also made TMay look decisive, for once in her life.Sean_F said:
Suspending the whip has killed the story.GeoffM said:
I'm bored of this now.CarlottaVance said:
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
The media certainty weren't revving up the Outrage Bus when all of the anti-Jewish stuff was doing the rounds from the left ... so why should we allow that to slide past but now buy a ticket for this particular charabanc?0 -
Her agent blamed mass immigration for lack of resources in schools. It's a stretch to describe that as racism.OldKingCole said:
There was something on the web yesterday which implied that, either from her or her husband/agent.CarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
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I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
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Give them time, quite possibly Brexit will do so.CarlottaVance said:
Absolutely. The Tories need to come up with a 'Poll Tax' to plumb the depths of 1993......Sean_F said:There's no reason for her to resign her seat, so I don't think the issue arises.
And, the Conservatives are nowhere near as unpopular now as 1993.
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The dementia tax was a solid stab at it and there's plenty of time for the Tories to emulate the depths of 92-97 but clearly that'll not happen as the breadth of talent in the government is so ....CarlottaVance said:
Absolutely. The Tories need to come up with a 'Poll Tax' to plumb the depths of 1993......Sean_F said:There's no reason for her to resign her seat, so I don't think the issue arises.
And, the Conservatives are nowhere near as unpopular now as 1993.
Oh dear ....0 -
Although in Rumsfeld's case it was a disingenuous defence of his administration's Iraq policy. The known unknowns (whether there were any WMD) were declared as such by Hans Blix, the UN weapons inspector and Jacques Chirac amongst others, who wanted more time to investigate and were dismissed at the time by the Bush administration effectively as "known knowns". The unknown unknowns (the bad reaction of the Iraqis to the invasion) were widely predicted by others.rcs1000 said:
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/8845345954667847700 -
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right0 -
“Brexit means Brexit” no longer means anything, save to the extent it reflects an emotional response to complex problems that is simultaneously atavistic and sentimental. It asks for a return to the old ways — a Britain free from continental entanglements — and buttresses its self-belief by noting that Britain is, at last, a “free” and “self-governing” country again. Buttresses, of course, are needed to prevent the roof from falling in.
British politics remains torn between two contradictory, indeed incompatible, positions. On the one hand there is an evident desire to maintain as much continuity as possible, while on the other there is an urgent necessity for a clean break. This is the Johnsonian position of having your cake and eating it. Unfortunately, it is also increasingly clear that there is no cake.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/brexit-means-brexit-doesnt-mean-anything-s967zgrvp0 -
As a matter of interest, black people are allowed to use the 'n-word' word, although I'm not sure about black politicians, Can someone enlighten me?
Are there words that white people can use but not black people? This is just curiosity, I've not yet turned into Uncle Bob from the nursing home, but I feel like it sometimes.
I remember the furore when Alan Hansen used the world 'coloured' when criticising racism in football. So is 'coloured' a naughty word even when used in context?0 -
Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
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"Nigger" is offensive, except when used by people like Marsellus Wallace. Having a fit of the vapours about "coloured" is just silly.CD13 said:As a matter of interest, black people are allowed to use the 'n-word' word, although I'm not sure about black politicians, Can someone enlighten me?
Are there words that white people can use but not black people? This is just curiosity, I've not yet turned into Uncle Bob from the nursing home, but I feel like it sometimes.
I remember the furore when Alan Hansen used the world 'coloured' when criticising racism in football. So is 'coloured' a naughty word even when used in context?0 -
I kind of miss the Quad...0
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Get off your high horse you loon. I don't like a lot of things young people say today but I am not frothing at the mouth wanting them punished. A bit silly but as said previously it was a very common harmless saying years ago, stupid twerps like you and other PC zealots who want to decide what people can and cannot say.not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash. Someone in Parliament claiming to represent the views of the public should be well aware that such language is unacceptable to the vast majority. It's one of the basic qualifications for the job.
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We put up with months of this over POTUS 2016: it takes you 24 hours longer than the next slowest poster on the site for an idea to sink in, and once it has sunk in you relay it back to us for months. Yes, pussy-grabbing is bad; yes, saying "n------r" is bad; no, these insights on your part are not correlated with predictive ability. Your POTUS debacle was a comic tour de force; don't wreck it with an inferior sequel.619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right0 -
Mr F,
Thank you, that makes a little more sense.
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It came from the American civil war when runaway slaves were trying to reach the north , people who helped them often hid them in the woodpile , they were reasonably safe under all that wood but at times would be discovered.619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Scrapheap, indeed.
I'm deeply suspicious of this story. Sounds like a first step in trying to achieve the idiotic aspiration of getting rid of cash: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40561807
In F1 gossip: rumours of the British Grand Prix being moved to east London have arisen. Because losing a classic track for a shitty identikit street circuit that may be unachievable anyway is what the fans really want,0 -
pretty accurate thoughMonikerDiCanio said:
Macron is saying there are too many black African babies. That's pretty bold, I'm not sure if it is sensible.rcs1000 said:
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/8845345954667847700 -
Many Corbyn media luvvies who turned against him just prior to the GE are now desperately seeking to make amends by attacking this mythical thing called "the centre". Whatever it is, they have decided that Macron is it and that he is a threat. Hence the bile. He worries them. Rightly so.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
0 -
Macron is indeed right, the challenges of African development are much more complex and long term. While we cannot set aside history completely, the colonial period in Africa did end 50 years ago and cannot be an excuse forever.Penddu said:I am writing this from Madagascar...a beautiful country but where the infrastructure has almost collapsed since the French left (in the 70s?)..and the only significant investment apart from some very nice hotels aimed at rich French tourists ...is by Chinese mining companies (who are quietly colonising Eastern Africa).
But everything else is a chaotic shambles...chronic poverty...street crime... corruption....
Macron is right.
We should also recognise that there have been some development successes, as well as failures. Sub Saharan Africa.
The discussion on fertility rates here is interesting. It is in West and Central Africa that there has been the least demographic progress:
https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2015/05/whats-west-central-africas-youthful-demographics-high-desired-family-size/0 -
My view for what its worth is still that words by themselves should be neutral and it's the context that make them offensive.
If person A calls person B a n*****, or uses it in that context, they are saying I am a racist and intend to be offensive. Although there are very few other reasons to use it. The 'niggardly' hysteria was just ignorance.
0 -
Just out of interest, would 'Nigerian in the wood pile' be more or less offensive?0
-
"Coloured person" is utterly beyond the pale; "person of colour" is fine, perplexingly. N----rs are allowed to say n----rs. Whitey films portraying n---rs saying n---rs, I am not sure about, you'd have to ask QT.CD13 said:As a matter of interest, black people are allowed to use the 'n-word' word, although I'm not sure about black politicians, Can someone enlighten me?
Are there words that white people can use but not black people? This is just curiosity, I've not yet turned into Uncle Bob from the nursing home, but I feel like it sometimes.
I remember the furore when Alan Hansen used the world 'coloured' when criticising racism in football. So is 'coloured' a naughty word even when used in context?0 -
One thing May might profitably address is the ability of councils to borrow £2.7bn of government backed debt last year to speculate in commercial property (an investment fairly likely to go pear shaped), while at the same time they are cash limited as to what they can spend on council housing.0
-
Mr g,
Thanks for the explanation. Strange how it came to mean a complication rather than anything sinister.0 -
No one is saying she's racist - it's the use of an expression that most people associate with the actions of racist people and racist attitudes. That's not acceptable company for a Member of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
0 -
The phrase should not have been used, as it is dated, and too many people are unaware of its source from pre-US civil war, escaping slaves and the "underground railroad". Plus it used the now non PC "N" word.
Of more interest, is there any one here who can come up with a comparable phrase which describes the action of hiding something in plain sight, which doesn't upset people?0 -
Broadly it comes down to history, convention, taste and parts of the black community reclaiming a term of vile abuse. By the seventies the "n" word was regarded as completely objectionable when directed at black people and the "woodpile" phrase has fallen into disuse.CD13 said:As a matter of interest, black people are allowed to use the 'n-word' word, although I'm not sure about black politicians, Can someone enlighten me?
Are there words that white people can use but not black people? This is just curiosity, I've not yet turned into Uncle Bob from the nursing home, but I feel like it sometimes.
I remember the furore when Alan Hansen used the world 'coloured' when criticising racism in football. So is 'coloured' a naughty word even when used in context?
I can't recall a British black politician using the "n" word or using "coloured" in recent memory and the latter is rarely used in its old context.
In some ways it's akin to "queer" being reclaimed by the gay community from its previous use as a distinctly negative term. Whitey, honky and redneck and trailer trash in the US are examples of reverse discrimination abuse but IMO don't have the same force as the "n" word.0 -
Not as bored as I am of Grenfell.GeoffM said:
I'm bored of this now.CarlottaVance said:
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
The media certainty weren't revving up the Outrage Bus when all of the anti-Jewish stuff was doing the rounds from the left ... so why should we allow that to slide past but now buy a ticket for this particular charabanc?
On the news twelve times a day, every day.0 -
Needless to say, the areas where fundamentalist Christianity and Islam have taken root have the highest fertility rates.foxinsoxuk said:
Macron is indeed right, the challenges of African development are much more complex and long term. While we cannot set aside history completely, the colonial period in Africa did end 50 years ago and cannot be an excuse forever.Penddu said:I am writing this from Madagascar...a beautiful country but where the infrastructure has almost collapsed since the French left (in the 70s?)..and the only significant investment apart from some very nice hotels aimed at rich French tourists ...is by Chinese mining companies (who are quietly colonising Eastern Africa).
But everything else is a chaotic shambles...chronic poverty...street crime... corruption....
Macron is right.
We should also recognise that there have been some development successes, as well as failures. Sub Saharan Africa.
The discussion on fertility rates here is interesting. It is in West and Central Africa that there has been the least demographic progress:
https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2015/05/whats-west-central-africas-youthful-demographics-high-desired-family-size/0 -
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right0 -
With the tide so heavily against the Conservatives now, this is only to be expected.rcs1000 said:
There certainly shouldn't be. Saying something slightly foolish is not the same as - oohhh... - pretty much anything Jeremy Corbyn has said about Hamas or Northern Ireland.GeoffM said:There won't be.
Four years and eleven months of it to go...0 -
Have you seen Owen Jones's twitter feed?Charles said:
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right0 -
Within a generation global population will probably stop growing, at about 12-13 billion We are already likely to be close to 'peak child'; it takes a generation for reduced mortality from improved healthcare to feed through to lower birth rates; meanwhile there are a lot of children mostly in Africa enlarging the population of that continent. I think I remember seeing it is forecast that Nigeria will become the world's fourth most populous country.OldKingCole said:
Trouble is, quick (and often dirty) five year fixes are what ‘we, the people’ want. Or at least what newspaper editors and on-line commentators want.IanB2 said:
Rebuilding institutions is clearly more straightforward than establishing institutions in the first place. The object of the Marshall Plan was to get the institutions of mostly previously democratic states (Germany remaining under military occupation) up and running asap to prevent communism gaining a foothold in the chaos. The challenges Africa faces are of a wholly different nature.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/884534595466784770
Macron is making a reasonable and intelligent point, and does not appear to be arguing that the existing aid has failed to make an impact; in key areas like primary education and healthcare, clearly it has. But these are long term structural improvements, not quick five-year fixes.
I agree primary education and healthcare are making a difference, and will assist, in the long-term with reducing population growth.0 -
Condemnation via association......not_on_fire said:
No one is saying she's racist - it's the use of an expression that most people associate with the actions of racist people and racist attitudes. That's not acceptable company for a Member of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
Tell me, Lady Chakrabati, what first persuaded you that Labour didn't have an anti-Semitism problem?0 -
The phrase itself is a masively dodgy one as well though. Implies you cant see a black person im a woodpile!CD13 said:Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
Brenan O neil is coming to Morris'@ s rescue
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/8845184558688829440 -
Tree in a forestOchEye said:The phrase should not have been used, as it is dated, and too many people are unaware of its source from pre-US civil war, escaping slaves and the "underground railroad". Plus it used the now non PC "N" word.
Of more interest, is there any one here who can come up with a comparable phrase which describes the action of hiding something in plain sight, which doesn't upset people?0 -
It doesnt really become less racist in contextCharles said:
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right0 -
The Fertility rate in North Africa is now around 3, and fundamentalist Christianity is more common in East and Southern Africa (where FR are dropping rapidly) than in West and Central Africa where it is not. There (excluding Nigeria) the predominant faith is Catholicism, not generally described as fundamentalist. Catholicsm is perfectly compatible with low FR in Southern Europe and Latin America.not_on_fire said:
Needless to say, the areas where fundamentalist Christianity and Islam have taken root have the highest fertility rates.foxinsoxuk said:
Macron is indeed right, the challenges of African development are much more complex and long term. While we cannot set aside history completely, the colonial period in Africa did end 50 years ago and cannot be an excuse forever.Penddu said:I am writing this from Madagascar...a beautiful country but where the infrastructure has almost collapsed since the French left (in the 70s?)..and the only significant investment apart from some very nice hotels aimed at rich French tourists ...is by Chinese mining companies (who are quietly colonising Eastern Africa).
But everything else is a chaotic shambles...chronic poverty...street crime... corruption....
Macron is right.
We should also recognise that there have been some development successes, as well as failures. Sub Saharan Africa.
The discussion on fertility rates here is interesting. It is in West and Central Africa that there has been the least demographic progress:
https://www.newsecuritybeat.org/2015/05/whats-west-central-africas-youthful-demographics-high-desired-family-size/
The truth is more complex.0 -
I have a lifeCasino_Royale said:
Have you seen Owen Jones's twitter feed?Charles said:
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right
0 -
No, it doesn't imply that. Your misunderstanding would be (just about) comprehensible if wood were black. Wood is not black. You are confusing it with coal, which is a different thing altogether. (Not "altogether," actually, but let's keep things simple).619 said:
The phrase itself is a masively dodgy one as well though. Implies you cant see a black person im a woodpile!CD13 said:Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
Brenan O neil is coming to Morris'@ s rescue
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/884518455868882944
Please just face the fact that you aren't very good at this.0 -
WOW Tories will literally defend anything.
First piggate and now this0 -
It does.619 said:
It doesnt really become less racist in contextCharles said:
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right
It's outmoded, archaic and inappropriate. But not racist0 -
Rich old white man as gatekeeper of what's racist. You couldn't make it up.Charles said:
It does.619 said:
It doesnt really become less racist in contextCharles said:
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right
It's outmoded, archaic and inappropriate. But not racist0 -
Mr 619,
It meant a complication that you weren't expecting. Hence my confusion as to the derivation, now helpfully explained.
Ask your grandparents, they will explain.0 -
That's an interesting view. As it happens, it's a phase I have to on rare occasions, stop myself from using. I was 'exposed' to it as a child and teenager whilst on building and demo sites - it, and other non-PC phrases, were frequently used. Good parenting - and a very multiracial school - quickly taught me it was unacceptable and I introduced a filter. I still occasionally think of it though, and I mentally wince whenever I do.not_on_fire said:
No one is saying she's racist - it's the use of an expression that most people associate with the actions of racist people and racist attitudes. That's not acceptable company for a Member of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
Such phraseology might well be learnt decades ago, and be nothing to do with current company. It's not a phrase you can forget and unlearn.
I have some sympathy with the MP, although she's been very silly.0 -
Owen Jones wants a witchunt against others at the meeting who failed to denounce her. Very 1984.Ishmael_Z said:
No, it doesn't imply that. Your misunderstanding would be (just about) comprehensible if wood were black. Wood is not black. You are confusing it with coal, which is a different thing altogether. (Not "altogether," actually, but let's keep things simple).619 said:
The phrase itself is a masively dodgy one as well though. Implies you cant see a black person im a woodpile!CD13 said:Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
Brenan O neil is coming to Morris'@ s rescue
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/884518455868882944
Please just face the fact that you aren't very good at this.0 -
In this furore over language, are we missing the point over what was said?
She was raising concern that the issue of Brexit without a deal was not being addressed, or prepared for.
Offensive language, but a significant issue.0 -
Owen Jones is an arse.SquareRoot said:
Owen Jones wants a witchunt against Tory MP's who failed to criticise her. Very 1984.Ishmael_Z said:
No, it doesn't imply that. Your misunderstanding would be (just about) comprehensible if wood were black. Wood is not black. You are confusing it with coal, which is a different thing altogether. (Not "altogether," actually, but let's keep things simple).619 said:
The phrase itself is a masively dodgy one as well though. Implies you cant see a black person im a woodpile!CD13 said:Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
Brenan O neil is coming to Morris'@ s rescue
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/884518455868882944
Please just face the fact that you aren't very good at this.0 -
Mr. Freggles, nor could you make up complaining that someone of a certain race has an opinion on racism
0 -
Wolf in sheep's clothing? Not quite the same meaning admittedly.OchEye said:The phrase should not have been used, as it is dated, and too many people are unaware of its source from pre-US civil war, escaping slaves and the "underground railroad". Plus it used the now non PC "N" word.
Of more interest, is there any one here who can come up with a comparable phrase which describes the action of hiding something in plain sight, which doesn't upset people?
What gets me is that this wasn't some "Jeremy C*nt" slip of the tongue - she'd clearly thought about her point and decided using the phrase was OK before she opened her mouth.JosiasJessop said:
That's an interesting view. As it happens, it's a phase I have to on rare occasions, stop myself from using. I was 'exposed' to it as a child and teenager whilst on building and demo sites - it, and other non-PC phrases, were frequently used. Good parenting - and a very multiracial school - quickly taught me it was unacceptable and I introduced a filter. I still occasionally think of it though, and I mentally wince whenever I do.not_on_fire said:
No one is saying she's racist - it's the use of an expression that most people associate with the actions of racist people and racist attitudes. That's not acceptable company for a Member of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
Rushing to censure then.....what other evidence is there that this MP is racist?not_on_fire said:
Like I said in the rest of my post, that may be an acceptable excuse for your Uncle Bob in the nursing home, but not a serving MPCarlottaVance said:
It does explain how it might be a thoughtless slip of the tongue, rather than a deliberately racist epithet.....if one was reaching for understanding rather than rushing to censure.....not_on_fire said:And the "that phrase was commonly used in the 1970s" excuse doesn't wash.
Such phraseology might well be learnt decades ago, and be nothing to do with current company. It's not a phrase you can forget and unlearn.
I have some sympathy with the MP, although she's been very silly.
As for anti-Semitism in Labour, I have exactly the same thoughts. Naz Shah and her ilk should not be MPs.0 -
I must have skipped that chapterSquareRoot said:
Owen Jones wants a witchunt against others at the meeting who failed to denounce her. Very 1984.Ishmael_Z said:
No, it doesn't imply that. Your misunderstanding would be (just about) comprehensible if wood were black. Wood is not black. You are confusing it with coal, which is a different thing altogether. (Not "altogether," actually, but let's keep things simple).619 said:
The phrase itself is a masively dodgy one as well though. Implies you cant see a black person im a woodpile!CD13 said:Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
Brenan O neil is coming to Morris'@ s rescue
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/884518455868882944
Please just face the fact that you aren't very good at this.0 -
I don't think the white/black comparison should need explanation again, but here goes. Generally groups of people who have been subjected to discrimination, torture, slavery or murder because of their identity are seen as needing more protection from the words used by their past oppressors than other kinds of abuse. So the n* word is offensive because it was in regular use by lynch mobs and slave-owners, and sneers about Jews because they echo the Nazis. Nobody is much bothered by insults to, say, Yorkshiremen or Frenchmen (although I think they're in bad taste too), because of the absence of comparable atrocities. If people in a group use an insulting word about themselves, it's obviously meant ironically so isn't offensive. The context is relevant for a word like "coloured" because it hasn't always been used pejoratively, as n* always is when used by white people.CD13 said:As a matter of interest, black people are allowed to use the 'n-word' word, although I'm not sure about black politicians, Can someone enlighten me?
Are there words that white people can use but not black people? This is just curiosity, I've not yet turned into Uncle Bob from the nursing home, but I feel like it sometimes.
I remember the furore when Alan Hansen used the world 'coloured' when criticising racism in football. So is 'coloured' a naughty word even when used in context?
I doubt if she'll resign, though, and expect she'll be quietly readmitted to the whip after a period, like the Tory MP a while back after she cheerfully joked about dead Chinese cockle-pickers. Howard suspended her at once, then let her back in after a while.0 -
It's all those but also a racist comment.Charles said:
It does.619 said:
It doesnt really become less racist in contextCharles said:
You're like a toddler pointing and saying "she said a bad word, Mommy" without any nuanced understanding of the context619 said:
'n*gger' = 'old fashioned figure of speech'CD13 said:I heard the news reader having a fit of hysteria about "the worst possible word that can be used." Oh, I thought, she's called Corbyn a c*nt ( * for the snowflakes). She deserves what she's getting, I thought..
Turns out it was 'n*gger' . Stupid, I thought, again she deserves what she's getting. Now I find it was an unscripted and old-fashioned figure of speech. What a let-down. Serves me right for taking notice of hysterics. Unwise, but a million miles away from being what I thought
I'd always been curious of the derivation. Now, I suppose, with our modern censorship rules, I'll never know. You can listen to sexual expressions feely banded about on daytime TV, but non-sexual words cause the matrons to hold up their skirts and run for the hills.
I'm still OK for religious naughty words? OK, then .... Jehovah, Jehovah. Jehovah!
Right
It's outmoded, archaic and inappropriate. But not racist
I'd agree that the degree of offence is less than the use of the "n" word directed at an individual but the "woodpile" comment is clearly derived from casual racism that thankfully has fallen into disuse.
Almost as bad was the fact that she seemed completely oblivious to how the use of the "n" word would be regarded.0 -
Mr. F, I wonder if he wants a witch hunt against Labour MPs who don't clearly state their support for Luciana Berger?0
-
Brilliant. After a clean sweep of condemnation from every single tory here or elsewhere who has discussed the issue, and the suspension of this woman without benefit of a Chakrabarti whitewash, the best you can come up with is the suggestion that she is being "defended". The intelligence deficit on the left is approaching crisis point.Freggles said:WOW Tories will literally defend anything.
First piggate and now this
What was "piggate"?0 -
Macron is simply following the Easterly line on aid, rather than the Sachs one.The_Apocalypse said:This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.0 -
We need something to actually happen. I hate all of this 24x7 rolling 'analysis' masquerading as actual 'news'.Casino_Royale said:
Not as bored as I am of Grenfell.GeoffM said:
I'm bored of this now.CarlottaVance said:
Agree. If she'd used the N word to describe a person, then that would be orders of magnitude different - but she used an outdated (but previously commonplace) turn of phrase which now understandably causes offence and has (sort of) apologised for it. Compared to what some other parties have put up with (yes, Labour & Lib Dems, I'm looking at you) its trivial - but everything is being played at Volume 11 these days.....roll on the recess....Richard_H said:I don't think a casual use of the 'N' word is enough to force an MP to resign. In the current position we are in, i should imagine it would have to be very serious indeed.
The media certainty weren't revving up the Outrage Bus when all of the anti-Jewish stuff was doing the rounds from the left ... so why should we allow that to slide past but now buy a ticket for this particular charabanc?
On the news twelve times a day, every day.
Roll on the supervolcano eruption.
0 -
Morning all
Much more interested in Macron's comments than anything some backbench Conservative MP has said.
I've read through the whole answer and while it's close to my own position, I don't feel comfortable with it. It smacks of an interesting moral and cultural nuance relating to money, aid and governance which seems peculiar to the West.
I'm finding it hard to explain in words but I'll have a try. It is in the interests of the West (and indeed the whole world) for Africa to be peaceful and prosperous and helping them achieve that is an entirely laudable aim on that basis but the reluctance of the West seems to relate to the governance structures (or lack of them) in much of Africa which means the perception is the aid doesn't go to the people but lines the pockets of bureaucrats and despots.
The comparison with post-WW2 Marshall seems predicated on that notion - America was happy to help the recovery of democratic, stable western European countries with accountable and relatively corruption-free governments but the modern West is wary of backing African countries where venality is or appears to be the norm.
This seems less of a problem to the Chinese who have opted for a different form of investment in parts of Africa via industrial and transport infrastructure (the new railway from Nairobi to Mombasa and the proposed East African railway extension is an example).
Is it for us to tell other parts of the countries how they should be governed ? No, but it is our money in the end though the human consequences of failed states seem to end up on Europe's doorstep almost as if to say that if you don't help the Africans in Africa they'll come and help themselves in Europe.0 -
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Something to do with Cyril Smith, probably.Ishmael_Z said:
Brilliant. After a clean sweep of condemnation from every single tory here or elsewhere who has discussed the issue, and the suspension of this woman without benefit of a Chakrabarti whitewash, the best you can come up with is the suggestion that she is being "defended". The intelligence deficit on the left is approaching crisis point.Freggles said:WOW Tories will literally defend anything.
First piggate and now this
What was "piggate"?0 -
Mrs Gates said the same thing on the radio this morning.MonikerDiCanio said:
Macron is saying there are too many black African babies. That's pretty bold, I'm not sure if it is sensible.rcs1000 said:
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/8845345954667847700 -
Sir Lynton speaks.
Speaking at a business lunch in Sydney on Tuesday, Crosby attempted to explain the phenomenon of Jeremy Corbyn.
“On polling day, over 70% of voters thought the Conservatives were going to win,” Crosby said.
“So they thought we’ll reward [Corbyn] for being prepared to talk about interesting things and shake the system up, but we’ll still have the comfort of having Theresa May as prime minister at the end of the day,” he said.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/11/tory-pollster-lynton-crosby-says-theresa-may-right-to-call-early-general-election0 -
I bet you've never even picked it up.Stereotomy said:
I must have skipped that chapterSquareRoot said:
Owen Jones wants a witchunt against others at the meeting who failed to denounce her. Very 1984.Ishmael_Z said:
No, it doesn't imply that. Your misunderstanding would be (just about) comprehensible if wood were black. Wood is not black. You are confusing it with coal, which is a different thing altogether. (Not "altogether," actually, but let's keep things simple).619 said:
The phrase itself is a masively dodgy one as well though. Implies you cant see a black person im a woodpile!CD13 said:Mr 619,
That is not what I said, and you know it, The phrase was used often in the 1970s, long before you were born.
Brenan O neil is coming to Morris'@ s rescue
https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/884518455868882944
Please just face the fact that you aren't very good at this.
1984 is the second most lied-about book people claim to have read.0 -
The point needed to be made by T May but I would hope rather than resigning her seat the whip would be restored to her after a suitable period of penance.Sean_F said:
I don't think many of us object to suspending the whip.Freggles said:WOW Tories will literally defend anything.
First piggate and now this
But, we don't see using this offensive phrase as a hanging offence, either.
The MP concerned is only a couple of years older than me and the expression would have been used by her parents generation. The sea change occurred rather rapidly in the 1970's - Hot Chocolate's 1973 single Brother Louie, controversial at the time, referred to a white father wanting no spook in his family and the black father's reverse racism of wanting no honky marrying his daughter.0 -
What kind of nutters run about saying hello black person or coloured person or white person etc. What a load of PC bollox from half witted PC morons. A person is a person who gives a toss what colour their skin is.Ishmael_Z said:
"Coloured person" is utterly beyond the pale; "person of colour" is fine, perplexingly. N----rs are allowed to say n----rs. Whitey films portraying n---rs saying n---rs, I am not sure about, you'd have to ask QT.CD13 said:As a matter of interest, black people are allowed to use the 'n-word' word, although I'm not sure about black politicians, Can someone enlighten me?
Are there words that white people can use but not black people? This is just curiosity, I've not yet turned into Uncle Bob from the nursing home, but I feel like it sometimes.
I remember the furore when Alan Hansen used the world 'coloured' when criticising racism in football. So is 'coloured' a naughty word even when used in context?0 -
What does she want ? A Maoist one child policy for African women ?TOPPING said:
Mrs Gates said the same thing on the radio this morning.MonikerDiCanio said:
Macron is saying there are too many black African babies. That's pretty bold, I'm not sure if it is sensible.rcs1000 said:
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/8845345954667847700 -
I think the point he was making was that many babies are born due to the lack of progress in African economic and social development. Families have many babies because they expect some not to reach adulthood, (and possibly for other cultural reasons). He seems to cite it as an indicator - European progress saw birthrates fall with infant mortalityTOPPING said:
Mrs Gates said the same thing on the radio this morning.MonikerDiCanio said:
Macron is saying there are too many black African babies. That's pretty bold, I'm not sure if it is sensible.rcs1000 said:
As with the famous Rumsfeld "Know knowns and known unknowns" speech, it turns out that said politician was actually making good sense.The_Apocalypse said:Couldn't believe that Tory MP really used the n-word *rollseyes* Glad to see that May has suspended her.
FPT:
Good morning.
Macron is getting a lot of flack on Twitter (again) for comments he made about Africa. First I saw was a video clip, though it turns out that was edited.
This is the full quote:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/884490993319464963
Personally, I don't see what's so awful about what he's just said there. On my timeline last night, I saw my Corbynista friends calling Macron a racist for this....yet they were silent when it came to anti-Semitism in Labour party *rolleyes*.
https://twitter.com/jkirchick/status/8845345954667847700
