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Mr. John, Cameron gained over a hundred seats. His two election campaigns were streets ahead of May's.
Although, as her campaign is the worst I can remember, that's a bit like saying someone treated prisoners more kindly than Basil II.0 -
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
The Hillary Clinton type of victory.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.0 -
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.0 -
There is going to be a West End show called "ARLENE! THE GLITZ. THE GLAMOUR. THE GOSSIP".
https://www.nimaxtheatres.com/duchess-theatre/arlene_the_glitz_the_glamour_the_gossip0 -
That's why Clinton is in office, right?logical_song said:
The Hillary Clinton type of victory.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.0 -
And it should be also remembered in 2010 the electoral geography was really unfavourable to the Tories, in 2005 Labour had a lead over the Tories of 2.8% and won a majority of 66 seats.
In 2010 the Tories had a lead over Labour of 7.1% and didn't get a majority.0 -
OT. How jealous must the Americans be as they watch the impressive Macron being inaugurated.
How must the Tories be turning green as they watch their own faltering trio of May Johnson and Davis and think what might have been.0 -
I know a Tory leaver who hates Osborne who had the grace to admit Osborne would have won a majority against Corbyn, Osborne would have hammered Corbyn on the economy and his economic plans.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mrs May hardly mentioned the economy.0 -
He may not be liked but he might succeed if he looked more competent than the alternatives.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.0 -
It's tricky to compare a serial killers dead offerings to dog food but PB is never shy of an opinion.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, if you're saying that success or failure is graded according to opposition then you must accept Hannibal was a better leader than Caesar
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The main reason the Conservatives lost this campaign was because of austerity. They winter fuel payments, student loans and, most of all, social care fees all reminded them they have been paying more money to get less in return. Having George Osborne as leader would be doing that not just on manifesto day, but every time he is on television.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
The right direction is the one that led Theresa May to polling in the high 40s in the first place. That is moderate doses of national sovereignty, immigration restriction and industrial policy. If we reach out to working class voters and young people and avoid scaring the horses of the middle classes and elderly with social care fees then Jeremy Corbyn's divided Labour Party will be exposed in time. Conservatives need to just keep their heads while everyone about them is losing theirs.0 -
The government has published a document with detail on the tests of cladding following the Grenfell fire:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/624285/Safety_checks_explanatory_note_170630.pdf
What it seems to be saying (paragraphs 11 to 13) is that it is unlikely that buildings using cladding with combustible cores (which seems to be most of them, and all the ones where samples had been submitted for testing) did actually meet building regulations. At the very least, there should have been a presumption that they didn't, unless tests had shown that the installation as a whole was safe. They further seem to be saying that there don't seem to have been any such tests done, as far as they know.
If this is a fair summary, and turns out to be correct, it must have been a quite extraordinary systemic failure of the regulatory environment, going far beyond Grenfell. It seems almost unbelievable.0 -
I've seen more than one Tory arguing that they'd do better with 'proper' conservative policies like the DUP's.JackW said:
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.0 -
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.0 -
The tactics were brilliant in finishing of UKip and closing any threat on the right flank.However I do not think they both intended to lose the referendum.They might in the long run have won a battle for a terrible price.Mortimer said:
Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
I think history will prove us both right about the negatives and both wrong about the positives; neither Cameron nor May were/are popular, and neither a wonderful tactician....0 -
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
In retrospect a bit less 'marmalising' and Cameron / Osborne would still be in place.TheScreamingEagles said:
We have the guts, that's why Dave's Tories marmalised the Lib Dems in 2015.PClipp said:
Just trying to clear up the mess that Labour left behind. After all, it was Labour who introduced tuition fees in the first place.TheScreamingEagles said:
From the party of Nick Clegg and abolishing tuition fees, I find that incredibly touching.PClipp said:
As one of the "terminally stupid", I expected the Prime Minister of our country to speak the truth and make clear his intentions.isam said:He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...
His behaviour during the Referendum campaign was despicable, but I though he had standards....
And it was you Tories who were hell bent on putting them up.
Still, blame the Lib Dems for everything. We are used to it.
Why can`t you Tories/ Labour even have the gets to stand up for your own policies?
And on that bombshell, I have to go and write a best man's speech.0 -
"Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017."
i think that one is quite obvious and no detriment to cameron0 -
There used, I think, to be an Irish something MP in Liverpool.JackW said:
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.0 -
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
Cameron was against a powerful UKIP and an electable Labour party. He would have destroyed Corbyn under the same circumstances Mrs May faced.Mortimer said:
Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
I think history will prove us both right about the negatives and both wrong about the positives; neither Cameron nor May were/are popular, and neither a wonderful tactician....0 -
Yeah, that's why Mrs Thatcher lost to Kinnock and Foot.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.0 -
It could be argued that Cameron made his own UKIP problem.midwinter said:
Cameron was against a powerful UKIP and an electable Labour party. He would have destroyed Corbyn under the same circumstances Mrs May faced.Mortimer said:
Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
I think history will prove us both right about the negatives and both wrong about the positives; neither Cameron nor May were/are popular, and neither a wonderful tactician....0 -
This is a good point. Cameron's big issue in 2010 is that previous Tory leaders (Hague, Howard - IDS didn't get to a GE) had not made any real significant progress in increasing the number of Tory MPs since 1997. While Blair's majority had gone down from a landslide to 66 seats in 2005, a lot of that was also to do with the progress of the LDs under Kennedy. Kinnock had made significant progress in both 1987 and 1992 (and even Foot had not taken Labour to under 200) - this meant Blair had a much better to start from in 1997. Meanwhile, between 1997 and 2005 the Tories added only 33 MPs to their 1997 result of 165 MPs. To add only that amount of MPs being sub 200 meant that Cameron had a hell of a mountain to climb as far as getting a majority goes.TheScreamingEagles said:In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.
That said 2008/2009 were truly terrible for Gordon Brown (although with Corbyn in charge I'd actually prefer to go back to the years of Gordon Brown leadership....at least he wasn't a Hard Leftist) and Cameron and Osborne led Labour by as much as 20+ points in some polls during those years. Where did that lead go?0 -
Cameron spent all his time insulting Conservative core votersmidwinter said:
Cameron was against a powerful UKIP and an electable Labour party. He would have destroyed Corbyn under the same circumstances Mrs May faced.Mortimer said:
Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
I think history will prove us both right about the negatives and both wrong about the positives; neither Cameron nor May were/are popular, and neither a wonderful tactician....
they wouldnt come back till he left hence Mays 42%0 -
Eh? Neither of those were popular like Corbyn.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, that's why Mrs Thatcher lost to Kinnock and Foot.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.
0 -
the DUP's voting record is closer to Labours than the Torieswilliamglenn said:
I've seen more than one Tory arguing that they'd do better with 'proper' conservative policies like the DUP's.JackW said:
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.0 -
SHOCKED!
A barrister representing a racist attacker who ripped a niqab off the face of a Muslim woman has linked the attack to the anti-refugee atmosphere surrounding the Brexit referendum.
A sentencing hearing was told on Monday it was no coincidence that the incident occurred a few weeks after the vote when “press and politicians ... were playing the race card”.
Peter Scotter, 56, of Roker, Sunderland, assaulted the woman, who was shopping with her nine-year-old son and husband, shouting that he was taking his country back.
The force he used to pull off the garment in July last year in the Bridges Shopping Centre, Sunderland, caused her to fall to the floor.
He continued to shout abuse, including “you are in our country now, you stupid fucking Muslim”, “take that fucking off”, and “it’s our Britain, stick by our rules, these black bastards with their masks and veils, I will pull them off every time”.
Tony Hawks, defending, told Newcastle crown court there was “no doubt that what he did was an ignorant and despicable piece of behaviour” and he was an “ignorant and ill-educated man”.
But he added: “It is no coincidence that this occurred within a week or so of the Brexit referendum. Where the press and politicians were banging the drum about taking our country back. They were playing the race card and, in the case of Ukip, a disgraceful advertisement showing a queue of refugees.
“He has to take responsibility for his own actions, but is it simply a coincidence that after listening to weeks of that rhetoric the defendant was not affected?”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/03/brexit-race-card-linked-to-attack-on-niqab-wearing-muslim-woman?CMP=twt_gu0 -
One of the most odd elements of Cameroonism is how it still has cheerleaders but no actual figurehead.
Seems the politicians have tired of it before the activists....0 -
And yet you keep going on and on about them.Alice_Aforethought said:
The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.
How sad and pathetic is that ?
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Gains are an irrelevant statistic. As I have said before, there is no evidence anywhere in political science that the previous election has any effect on the current one, other than the incumbency effect.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. John, Cameron gained over a hundred seats. His two election campaigns were streets ahead of May's.
Although, as her campaign is the worst I can remember, that's a bit like saying someone treated prisoners more kindly than Basil II.
We know from the local elections that Theresa May's message was a winning one. It was just executed badly. They underrated Jeremy Corbyn and overrated the British public when they released the manifesto. We won't make that mistake again.
We only need to creep up a couple of points to get 44-45% of the vote, which should be very possible as Grenfell and the social care fees fade into the memory. A reach out to the young with a big housing program and modifications to student loans will also dent Labour's lead among the under 30s. Meanwhile Corbyn's 40% will fracture as Europhiles realise he's supporting Brexit, the moderates continue to rebel, and he gets much more scrutiny next time.0 -
How many would they win in France? So what?JackW said:
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.
As a national party the LibDems are a laughable flop.0 -
You seem to spend most of your time on here telling people that disagree with you that they are stupid.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Lucky you are a moderator or you would get the card every now and again, and I see you have learnt precisely nothing from the Remain campaign.0 -
He had had 70 previous convictions, including throwing bricks with racist stickers on them at a house with refugees inside, according to the BBC. A real charmer.TheScreamingEagles said:SHOCKED!
A barrister representing a racist attacker who ripped a niqab off the face of a Muslim woman has linked the attack to the anti-refugee atmosphere surrounding the Brexit referendum.
A sentencing hearing was told on Monday it was no coincidence that the incident occurred a few weeks after the vote when “press and politicians ... were playing the race card”.
Peter Scotter, 56, of Roker, Sunderland, assaulted the woman, who was shopping with her nine-year-old son and husband, shouting that he was taking his country back.
The force he used to pull off the garment in July last year in the Bridges Shopping Centre, Sunderland, caused her to fall to the floor.
He continued to shout abuse, including “you are in our country now, you stupid fucking Muslim”, “take that fucking off”, and “it’s our Britain, stick by our rules, these black bastards with their masks and veils, I will pull them off every time”.
Tony Hawks, defending, told Newcastle crown court there was “no doubt that what he did was an ignorant and despicable piece of behaviour” and he was an “ignorant and ill-educated man”.
But he added: “It is no coincidence that this occurred within a week or so of the Brexit referendum. Where the press and politicians were banging the drum about taking our country back. They were playing the race card and, in the case of Ukip, a disgraceful advertisement showing a queue of refugees.
“He has to take responsibility for his own actions, but is it simply a coincidence that after listening to weeks of that rhetoric the defendant was not affected?”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/03/brexit-race-card-linked-to-attack-on-niqab-wearing-muslim-woman?CMP=twt_gu0 -
Nothing odd about it at all. Politicians of the quality of Cameron don't come along very often.Mortimer said:One of the most odd elements of Cameroonism is how it still has cheerleaders but no actual figurehead.
Seems the politicians have tired of it before the activists....0 -
My tolerance for stupidity expired a while back.nigel4england said:
You seem to spend most of your time on here telling people that disagree with you that they are stupid.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Lucky you are a moderator or you would get the card every now and again, and I see you have learnt precisely nothing from the Remain campaign.
I see you've appeared after I answered your query on the previous thread, I hope you didn't miss it.0 -
Or you can be both at the same time, like the Hapsburgs. Kaiserlich und Koeniglich. - Imperial and Royal.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, emperors, not kings. German for emperor is Kaiser, for king is Konig (umlaut on the O, I think).
Julius Caesar enjoyed supreme authority for less time than Theresa May.0 -
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
he's from the Bourbon wing of the conservative, learnt nothing and forgotten nothingnigel4england said:
You seem to spend most of your time on here telling people that disagree with you that they are stupid.TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Lucky you are a moderator or you would get the card every now and again, and I see you have learnt precisely nothing from the Remain campaign.
More IDS than IDS0 -
Asking for JackW, what about the Hanoverians?FF43 said:
Or you can be both at the same time, like the Hapsburgs. Kaiserlich und Koeniglich. - Imperial and Royal.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, emperors, not kings. German for emperor is Kaiser, for king is Konig (umlaut on the O, I think).
Julius Caesar enjoyed supreme authority for less time than Theresa May.0 -
I expect the principal problems will prove to be that the "inspectors" were generally hired by the developer or builder, hence they paid most attention to the needs of the people paying them, and that the regulations were overlain with detailed "guidance" from sector bodies like the BCA and NHBC, and in practice inspections were made to these guidelines rather than the intent of the original regulations.Richard_Nabavi said:The government has published a document with detail on the tests of cladding following the Grenfell fire:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/624285/Safety_checks_explanatory_note_170630.pdf
What it seems to be saying (paragraphs 11 to 13) is that it is unlikely that buildings using cladding with combustible cores (which seems to be most of them, and all the ones where samples had been submitted for testing) did actually meet building regulations. At the very least, there should have been a presumption that they didn't, unless tests had shown that the installation as a whole was safe. They further seem to be saying that there don't seem to have been any such tests done, as far as they know.
If this is a fair summary, and turns out to be correct, it must have been a quite extraordinary systemic failure of the regulatory environment, going far beyond Grenfell. It seems almost unbelievable.0 -
Boris Johnson has to be the last word in treachery. How would he feel if Hammond did a critique on the Foreign Office. Shakespeare would have had such inspiration. Iago and Lady Macbeth would have been nothing but footnotes.0
-
I'll do a thread on it just for you in the next few days.CornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
It's no coincidence that some of these 'proper' conservatives also favour Michael Foot's policies on Europe.Alanbrooke said:
the DUP's voting record is closer to Labours than the Torieswilliamglenn said:
I've seen more than one Tory arguing that they'd do better with 'proper' conservative policies like the DUP's.JackW said:
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.0 -
small handsCornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
cough cough0 -
Nice mitigation attempt - good for the lawyer. I'd be really angry if someone representing me didn't try every wriggle in the book to get me off or a lighter sentence.TheScreamingEagles said:SHOCKED!
A barrister representing a racist attacker who ripped a niqab off the face of a Muslim woman has linked the attack to the anti-refugee atmosphere surrounding the Brexit referendum.
[snip]0 -
I look forward to reading it.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'll do a thread on it just for you in the next few days.CornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
Size 11 feet.Alanbrooke said:
small handsCornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
cough cough0 -
The only thing for sure in these crazy days is that nothing is for certain, and anyone saying otherwise is a fool.0
-
Osborne would not have won a majority against Corbyn. There is a difference between being Chancellor and a 'Master Strategist' (Osborne was, after all, called 'the submarine) and leader. You cannot be a 'submarine' when you lead your party - there is nowhere else to go. TMay learned this during the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
I know a Tory leaver who hates Osborne who had the grace to admit Osborne would have won a majority against Corbyn, Osborne would have hammered Corbyn on the economy and his economic plans.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mrs May hardly mentioned the economy.
One of the big issues that TMay faced in the campaign is that while Corbyn came off as personable, charming, affable, laid back and principled (no I don't think he is principled but he projected that image very well) she came across as cold, indecisive, nervous and weak (her responses to the terrorist attacks being the exception of this). She had no personal warmth or charm whatsoever. Now while I've read stories that Osborne comes across as 'charming' in private, in public he does not. He too has a problem in terms of projecting warmth. There is also the larger issue that what led to this GE being a disaster for the Tories was more than just a failure to critique Labour's plan; but a failure to anticipate and respond to public fatigue with austerity and the desire for a new economic consensus. I'm not sure whether Osborne would have been well positioned to have dealt with that any better than the Tories did during the GE. As it has gone in recent years, establishment centrists have generally been unable to rise to challenge in dealing with populists on either the left or right. Macron is perhaps the exception, but he was not seen as an establishment in France despite being an ex-banker but instead as an outsider. France has also never had a 'Blairite' figure and even now he's got to deal with that absolute nutcase Melenchon. I dislike him even more than I dislike McDonnell, and that's saying something.0 -
Child size 11 presumablyTheScreamingEagles said:
Size 11 feet.Alanbrooke said:
small handsCornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
cough cough0 -
Would you like me to post a picture of all my shoes in the flat?Alanbrooke said:
Child size 11 presumablyTheScreamingEagles said:
Size 11 feet.Alanbrooke said:
small handsCornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
cough cough0 -
She got 42 because the Ukip vote disappeared. In a two party election like 2017 Cameron would have gained more of the Kipper vote as well as holding onto the floating voters May lost.Alanbrooke said:
Cameron spent all his time insulting Conservative core votersmidwinter said:
Cameron was against a powerful UKIP and an electable Labour party. He would have destroyed Corbyn under the same circumstances Mrs May faced.Mortimer said:
Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
I think history will prove us both right about the negatives and both wrong about the positives; neither Cameron nor May were/are popular, and neither a wonderful tactician....
they wouldnt come back till he left hence Mays 42%
But we'll never agree on this. I will note Cameron consistently polled well ahead of the Tory party throughout his leadership. May did until it mattered.0 -
I think they were called Usurpers.TheScreamingEagles said:
Asking for JackW, what about the Hanoverians?FF43 said:
Or you can be both at the same time, like the Hapsburgs. Kaiserlich und Koeniglich. - Imperial and Royal.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, emperors, not kings. German for emperor is Kaiser, for king is Konig (umlaut on the O, I think).
Julius Caesar enjoyed supreme authority for less time than Theresa May.0 -
Margaret Thatcher was also active politically in a time with very different demographics. It is much more difficult for Conservatives to get a vote share in the 40s these days.Mortimer said:
Eh? Neither of those were popular like Corbyn.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, that's why Mrs Thatcher lost to Kinnock and Foot.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.0 -
I think @IanB2 is on the money with his post upthread.Richard_Nabavi said:The government has published a document with detail on the tests of cladding following the Grenfell fire:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/624285/Safety_checks_explanatory_note_170630.pdf
What it seems to be saying (paragraphs 11 to 13) is that it is unlikely that buildings using cladding with combustible cores (which seems to be most of them, and all the ones where samples had been submitted for testing) did actually meet building regulations. At the very least, there should have been a presumption that they didn't, unless tests had shown that the installation as a whole was safe. They further seem to be saying that there don't seem to have been any such tests done, as far as they know.
If this is a fair summary, and turns out to be correct, it must have been a quite extraordinary systemic failure of the regulatory environment, going far beyond Grenfell. It seems almost unbelievable.
This is a random example, from google, of a private building control company;
https://www.rbcltd.co.uk/pages/why-use-rbc-instead-of-a-local-authority.html
See the problem?0 -
But in that case, unless he had committed all those offences within a period of about 18 months, it is obvious that this was business as usual with him and nothing to do with brexit. His barrister should be struck off for misleading the court.old_labour said:
He had had 70 previous convictions, including throwing bricks with racist stickers on them at a house with refugees inside, according to the BBC. A real charmer.TheScreamingEagles said:SHOCKED!
A barrister representing a racist attacker who ripped a niqab off the face of a Muslim woman has linked the attack to the anti-refugee atmosphere surrounding the Brexit referendum.
A sentencing hearing was told on Monday it was no coincidence that the incident occurred a few weeks after the vote when “press and politicians ... were playing the race card”.
Peter Scotter, 56, of Roker, Sunderland, assaulted the woman, who was shopping with her nine-year-old son and husband, shouting that he was taking his country back.
The force he used to pull off the garment in July last year in the Bridges Shopping Centre, Sunderland, caused her to fall to the floor.
He continued to shout abuse, including “you are in our country now, you stupid fucking Muslim”, “take that fucking off”, and “it’s our Britain, stick by our rules, these black bastards with their masks and veils, I will pull them off every time”.
Tony Hawks, defending, told Newcastle crown court there was “no doubt that what he did was an ignorant and despicable piece of behaviour” and he was an “ignorant and ill-educated man”.
But he added: “It is no coincidence that this occurred within a week or so of the Brexit referendum. Where the press and politicians were banging the drum about taking our country back. They were playing the race card and, in the case of Ukip, a disgraceful advertisement showing a queue of refugees.
“He has to take responsibility for his own actions, but is it simply a coincidence that after listening to weeks of that rhetoric the defendant was not affected?”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/03/brexit-race-card-linked-to-attack-on-niqab-wearing-muslim-woman?CMP=twt_gu0 -
Mr. 43, indeed, Victoria was Queen-Empress.
Incidentally, a man's shoe size matters not. It's his wiffle stick that counts.0 -
-
On your first point: that has an element of truth to it IMO, however, I would say May's popularity was actually much more artificial than Cameron's - as demonstrated by how quickly her ratings literally collapsed during a GE campaign of all things. At least Cameron didn't get exposed during a GE campaign. By the time his popularity decreased significantly he had been PM for more than five years and had been Conservative leader for a decade. It took May several months to lose her popularity.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.
I think TSE's social liberalism, combined with an economic policy that responses to concerns about neo-liberalism, austerity, and inter-generational unfairness can win the Tories a GE. The social liberalism can appeal to younger voters, while the economics can appeal to both younger voters in inner cities and the JAMS/WWC.0 -
All 70 during the Brexit campaign of course?old_labour said:
He had had 70 previous convictions, including throwing bricks with racist stickers on them at a house with refugees inside, according to the BBC. A real charmer.TheScreamingEagles said:SHOCKED!
A barrister representing a racist attacker who ripped a niqab off the face of a Muslim woman has linked the attack to the anti-refugee atmosphere surrounding the Brexit referendum.
A sentencing hearing was told on Monday it was no coincidence that the incident occurred a few weeks after the vote when “press and politicians ... were playing the race card”.
Peter Scotter, 56, of Roker, Sunderland, assaulted the woman, who was shopping with her nine-year-old son and husband, shouting that he was taking his country back.
The force he used to pull off the garment in July last year in the Bridges Shopping Centre, Sunderland, caused her to fall to the floor.
He continued to shout abuse, including “you are in our country now, you stupid fucking Muslim”, “take that fucking off”, and “it’s our Britain, stick by our rules, these black bastards with their masks and veils, I will pull them off every time”.
Tony Hawks, defending, told Newcastle crown court there was “no doubt that what he did was an ignorant and despicable piece of behaviour” and he was an “ignorant and ill-educated man”.
But he added: “It is no coincidence that this occurred within a week or so of the Brexit referendum. Where the press and politicians were banging the drum about taking our country back. They were playing the race card and, in the case of Ukip, a disgraceful advertisement showing a queue of refugees.
“He has to take responsibility for his own actions, but is it simply a coincidence that after listening to weeks of that rhetoric the defendant was not affected?”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/03/brexit-race-card-linked-to-attack-on-niqab-wearing-muslim-woman?CMP=twt_gu0 -
Ms. Apocalypse, as Machiavelli wrote, someone who rises very swiftly due to fortune, very often declines the same way.0
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It's due to your unconventional preference of voting systems....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It seems very unlikely that that explanation will cover all the cases. Bear in mind that the 'developer' was most likely to be a local council, and most often a Labour council at that. I find it hard to believe that in all those hundreds of cases they would always have used the external inspectors rather than their own.IanB2 said:I expect the principal problems will prove to be that the "inspectors" were generally hired by the developer or builder, hence they paid most attention to the needs of the people paying them, and that the regulations were overlain with detailed "guidance" from sector bodies like the BCA and NHBC, and in practice inspections were made to these guidelines rather than the intent of the original regulations.
0 -
I have been on the rough end of this aggression & abuse as well. So, unecessaryCornishJohn said:
If you want to link to the academic evidence, I'm very happy to change my mind. Although there's no need to be rude about it. Why must you be so aggressive?TheScreamingEagles said:
Please tell me you're not that stupid?CornishJohn said:
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?TheScreamingEagles said:
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.CornishJohn said:
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
Ms Apoc, you're missing my point. Popularity is judged in vote numbers. Millions more voted for Mrs May's paternalist state. Millions fewer voted for neo-liberalist status quo ism even when fronted by a popular Tory leader.The_Apocalypse said:
On your first point: that has an element of truth to it IMO, however, I would say May's popularity was actually much more artificial than Cameron's - as demonstrated by how quickly her ratings literally collapsed during a GE campaign of all things. At least Cameron didn't get exposed during a GE campaign. By the time his popularity decreased significantly he had been PM for more than five years and had been Conservative leader for a decade. It took May several months to lose her popularity.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.
I think TSE's social liberalism, combined with an economic policy that responses to concerns about neo-liberalism, austerity, and inter-generational unfairness can win the Tories a GE. The social liberalism can appeal to younger voters, while the economics can appeal to both younger voters in inner cities and the JAMS/WWC.0 -
Evening all
While it's entertaining to watch Conservatives play "who was the worst leader?" it doesn't really get us very far.
May did enough not to lose and that's the truth of it. Whether the arrangement with the DUP will provide for good governance and better governance than had the Conservatives won an overall majority remains to be seen.
As TSE said earlier, what politicians say in a campaign and what they do after an election are often wildly different. 72 hours before the 2010 GE Cameron said "no deals with the Lib Dems" yet by the Friday afternoon it was a "full and inclusive offer".
I'm convinced had the Conservatives fallen short of a majority in 2015, they would have done a deal with the SNP. I think May had that card to play this time as well and had the Conservatives been nearer 300 seats than 318 that would have been an option.
Sometimes it's not about ideology but the practicalities of power and politics.0 -
The evening thread contains a brief reference to AV.RobD said:
It's due to your unconventional preference of voting systems....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Now you've gone and ruined the surprise.TheScreamingEagles said:
The evening thread contains a brief reference to AV.RobD said:
It's due to your unconventional preference of voting systems....TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/881926189916540928
0 -
No I don't see the problem. We use private structural engineers, auditors, testing labs for pharameceuticals, product safety test labs, oil and gas safety engineers, and many others. In any case you have jumped straight to a political conclusion (what a surprise). I suggest you wait to see how many of the building inspectors were council employees before getting too excited.Pong said:
I think @IanB2 is on the money with his post upthread.Richard_Nabavi said:The government has published a document with detail on the tests of cladding following the Grenfell fire:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/624285/Safety_checks_explanatory_note_170630.pdf
What it seems to be saying (paragraphs 11 to 13) is that it is unlikely that buildings using cladding with combustible cores (which seems to be most of them, and all the ones where samples had been submitted for testing) did actually meet building regulations. At the very least, there should have been a presumption that they didn't, unless tests had shown that the installation as a whole was safe. They further seem to be saying that there don't seem to have been any such tests done, as far as they know.
If this is a fair summary, and turns out to be correct, it must have been a quite extraordinary systemic failure of the regulatory environment, going far beyond Grenfell. It seems almost unbelievable.
This is a random example, from google, of a private building control company;
https://www.rbcltd.co.uk/pages/why-use-rbc-instead-of-a-local-authority.html
See the problem?0 -
Well, popularity is also judged by whether you win an overall majority. May's gain in votes was due to some Kippers coming back home as a result of Brexit. It wasn't related to her popularity.Mortimer said:
Ms Apoc, you're missing my point. Popularity is judged in vote numbers. Millions more voted for Mrs May's paternalist state. Millions fewer voted for neo-liberalist status quo ism even when fronted by a popular Tory leader.The_Apocalypse said:
On your first point: that has an element of truth to it IMO, however, I would say May's popularity was actually much more artificial than Cameron's - as demonstrated by how quickly her ratings literally collapsed during a GE campaign of all things. At least Cameron didn't get exposed during a GE campaign. By the time his popularity decreased significantly he had been PM for more than five years and had been Conservative leader for a decade. It took May several months to lose her popularity.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.
I think TSE's social liberalism, combined with an economic policy that responses to concerns about neo-liberalism, austerity, and inter-generational unfairness can win the Tories a GE. The social liberalism can appeal to younger voters, while the economics can appeal to both younger voters in inner cities and the JAMS/WWC.
@Morris_Dancer Good point 0 -
This was a blatant case of a decent chap corrupted and made racist by the Brexit campaign. Anyone who disagrees is obviously really, thick
https://twitter.com/tommywilkinson/status/8285583799708672000 -
Guido has a good link fact checking Corbyn's fake news tweet on student numbers from poorer backgrounds:
https://order-order.com/2017/07/03/corbyn-wrong-on-working-class-student-numbers/0 -
This is all utterly shocking, and totally unsurprising. I don't know much about the standards of high-rise and large building complexes, but the standards in new-build housing, at least down my way, are highly variable.IanB2 said:
I expect the principal problems will prove to be that the "inspectors" were generally hired by the developer or builder, hence they paid most attention to the needs of the people paying them, and that the regulations were overlain with detailed "guidance" from sector bodies like the BCA and NHBC, and in practice inspections were made to these guidelines rather than the intent of the original regulations.Richard_Nabavi said:The government has published a document with detail on the tests of cladding following the Grenfell fire:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/624285/Safety_checks_explanatory_note_170630.pdf
What it seems to be saying (paragraphs 11 to 13) is that it is unlikely that buildings using cladding with combustible cores (which seems to be most of them, and all the ones where samples had been submitted for testing) did actually meet building regulations. At the very least, there should have been a presumption that they didn't, unless tests had shown that the installation as a whole was safe. They further seem to be saying that there don't seem to have been any such tests done, as far as they know.
If this is a fair summary, and turns out to be correct, it must have been a quite extraordinary systemic failure of the regulatory environment, going far beyond Grenfell. It seems almost unbelievable.
I fear this will be the tip of the iceberg, and there will be many other areas where things supposed to be to standard are not.0 -
It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.The_Apocalypse said:
Well, popularity is also judged by whether you win an overall majority. May's gain in votes was due to some Kippers coming back home as a result of Brexit. It wasn't related to her popularity.Mortimer said:
Ms Apoc, you're missing my point. Popularity is judged in vote numbers. Millions more voted for Mrs May's paternalist state. Millions fewer voted for neo-liberalist status quo ism even when fronted by a popular Tory leader.The_Apocalypse said:
On your first point: that has an element of truth to it IMO, however, I would say May's popularity was actually much more artificial than Cameron's - as demonstrated by how quickly her ratings literally collapsed during a GE campaign of all things. At least Cameron didn't get exposed during a GE campaign. By the time his popularity decreased significantly he had been PM for more than five years and had been Conservative leader for a decade. It took May several months to lose her popularity.Mortimer said:
The way I see it Cameron was less popular but less offensive to non Tory voters, whilst May was more popular but also more offensive to non Tory voters.The_Apocalypse said:
Tbf...this is true as well Mortimer.TheScreamingEagles said:But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
Although Osborne is politically toxic, May has not proven to be much better either. She should really be winning a comfortable majority at the very least against Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron, I think would have done better in Tory Remainey areas in London at the very the least. Though the disaffection with the neo-liberal economic status quo would have likely have affected him too. It would have definitely affected Osborne.
Mr Eagles strand of Tory politics won't win against popular socialists. I'm not sure mine will either.
It's a bit of a bloody conundrum to be honest.
I think TSE's social liberalism, combined with an economic policy that responses to concerns about neo-liberalism, austerity, and inter-generational unfairness can win the Tories a GE. The social liberalism can appeal to younger voters, while the economics can appeal to both younger voters in inner cities and the JAMS/WWC.
@Morris_Dancer Good point0 -
Remind us what you shouted at a woman in a niqab in London?isam said:This was a blatant case of a decent chap corrupted and made racist by the Brexit campaign. Anyone who disagrees is obviously really, thick
0 -
Some Jacobites might consider France as part of the realms of the monarch but I'm pretty sure that the DUP isn't including the Continental part of the Auld Alliance as within the Unionist familly.Alice_Aforethought said:
How many would they win in France? So what?JackW said:
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.
As a national party the LibDems are a laughable flop.0 -
I predict a spike in audience numbers.TheScreamingEagles said:
The evening thread contains a brief reference to AV.RobD said:
It's due to your unconventional preference of voting systems....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Wolf whistled while she was with husband - I blame a UKIP PPBwilliamglenn said:
Remind us what you shouted at a woman in a niqab in London?isam said:This was a blatant case of a decent chap corrupted and made racist by the Brexit campaign. Anyone who disagrees is obviously really, thick
0 -
Who says the owner isn't a certain Mr. Panini?TheScreamingEagles said: 0 -
Incidentally, those into fantasy should check out this year's Self-Published Fantasy Blog-Off. And not just because my book's on it, it's a very good way to find new books/writers.
http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/spfbo-2017-phase-1.html0 -
Its Crimewatch's fault too many people vote Tory...
Daytime TV’s theme is insecurity – and it’s driving voters to the right
Paul Mason
https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2017/jul/03/why-labour-must-understand-older-people-daytime-television0 -
It is.Mortimer said:It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.
While Corbyn was more popular than Miliband, TMay was not, in the end, more popular than Cameron. Her own personal ratings declined substantially during the campaign to the point that she is now where Jeremy Corbyn was a few months ago in the eyes of the public. It was the decline in May's personal ratings during the campaign, which followed the trajectory of a decreasing Tory lead, and thus the turning of the position of a Conservative majority at the start of the campaign to a situation of the Tories losing their majority on June 8th.
0 -
I saw something on Twitter earlier about that.FrancisUrquhart said:Its Crimewatch's fault too many people vote Tory...
Daytime TV’s theme is insecurity – and it’s driving voters to the right
Paul Mason
https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2017/jul/03/why-labour-must-understand-older-people-daytime-television
Is all a conspiracy, because Lord Ashcroft is behind Crimestoppers.0 -
<
That completely takes the wind out of the sails of those who have been claiming UKIP is a nasty party.
The headline might as well have been "18 out of 20 rats would leave the sinking ship if they can find a good excuse".
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?
There would also be an exodus of members.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?
The country likes a posh boy.
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.
In 2010 David Cameron began on 198 seats, in 2017 Theresa May began on 331 seats.
What evidence is there that the number of seats won in the last election makes any difference at all to the current election?
Please tell me you're not that stupid?
You seem to spend most of your time on here telling people that disagree with you that they are stupid.
Lucky you are a moderator or you would get the card every now and again, and I see you have learnt precisely nothing from the Remain campaign.
My tolerance for stupidity expired a while back.
I see you've appeared after I answered your query on the previous thread, I hope you didn't miss it.
Been to the bloody dentist, been feeling very sorry for myself all afternoon.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Asking for JackW, what about the Hanoverians?FF43 said:
Or you can be both at the same time, like the Hapsburgs. Kaiserlich und Koeniglich. - Imperial and Royal.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, emperors, not kings. German for emperor is Kaiser, for king is Konig (umlaut on the O, I think).
Julius Caesar enjoyed supreme authority for less time than Theresa May.
0 -
You're mixing relative popularity up with electoral popularity.The_Apocalypse said:
It is.Mortimer said:It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.
While Corbyn was more popular than Miliband, TMay was not, in the end, more popular than Cameron. Her own personal ratings declined substantially during the campaign to the point that she is now where Jeremy Corbyn was a few months ago in the eyes of the public. It was the decline in May's personal ratings during the campaign, which followed the trajectory of a decreasing Tory lead, and thus subsequently the turning of the position of a Conservative majority at the start of the campaign to a situation of the Tories losing their majority on June 8th.
And opinion polls with reality...0 -
In a GE relative popularity is the same thing as electoral popularity.Mortimer said:
You're mixing relative popularity up with electoral popularity.The_Apocalypse said:
It is.Mortimer said:It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.
While Corbyn was more popular than Miliband, TMay was not, in the end, more popular than Cameron. Her own personal ratings declined substantially during the campaign to the point that she is now where Jeremy Corbyn was a few months ago in the eyes of the public. It was the decline in May's personal ratings during the campaign, which followed the trajectory of a decreasing Tory lead, and thus subsequently the turning of the position of a Conservative majority at the start of the campaign to a situation of the Tories losing their majority on June 8th.
And opinion polls with reality...
One opinion poll - Survation and also The YouGov Model turned out to match with reality come the GE.0 -
Its Theresas faultTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Gah. Then how do you explain the millions more votes May received over Cameron?The_Apocalypse said:
In a GE relative popularity is the same thing as electoral popularity.Mortimer said:
You're mixing relative popularity up with electoral popularity.The_Apocalypse said:
It is.Mortimer said:It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.
While Corbyn was more popular than Miliband, TMay was not, in the end, more popular than Cameron. Her own personal ratings declined substantially during the campaign to the point that she is now where Jeremy Corbyn was a few months ago in the eyes of the public. It was the decline in May's personal ratings during the campaign, which followed the trajectory of a decreasing Tory lead, and thus subsequently the turning of the position of a Conservative majority at the start of the campaign to a situation of the Tories losing their majority on June 8th.
And opinion polls with reality...
One opinion poll - Survation and also The YouGov Model turned out to match with reality come the GE.
Voters returned to her from UKIP because she hadn't told them they were little Englanders. It isn't hard to comprehend.
I'm not saying she was great, I'm not saying she performed better relatively than cameron. But the total numbers of total votes don't lie.0 -
To your first point - I literally adressed that several posts ago. Kippers came back home. And in addressing your second point, this had nothing to do with how great TMay was or because 'she hadn't told them they were little Englanders.' They came back because of Brexit. Once that happened, there was very little reason to vote UKIP for many people. TMay owes her extra votes to Cameron's (ill-judged error) in holding an EUref more than anything else.Mortimer said:
Gah. Then how do you explain the millions more votes May received over Cameron?The_Apocalypse said:
In a GE relative popularity is the same thing as electoral popularity.Mortimer said:
You're mixing relative popularity up with electoral popularity.The_Apocalypse said:
It is.Mortimer said:It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.
While Corbyn was more popular than Miliband, TMay was not, in the end, more popular than Cameron. Her own personal ratings declined substantially during the campaign to the point that she is now where Jeremy Corbyn was a few months ago in the eyes of the public. It was the decline in May's personal ratings during the campaign, which followed the trajectory of a decreasing Tory lead, and thus subsequently the turning of the position of a Conservative majority at the start of the campaign to a situation of the Tories losing their majority on June 8th.
And opinion polls with reality...
One opinion poll - Survation and also The YouGov Model turned out to match with reality come the GE.
Voters returned to her from UKIP because she hadn't told them they were little Englanders. It isn't hard to comprehend.
I'm not saying she was great, I'm not saying she performed better relatively than cameron. But the total numbers of total votes don't lie.
The total number of votes don't necessarily symbolise what you may think they do. Otherwise, TMay's ratings wouldn't be in the dustbin right now....0 -
Austerity (or whatever you choose to call it) has led many councils to reduce their building control staff and hire in private firms as and when needed. And it is much more likely nowadays that the developer is a housing association or arms length housing management organisation, rather than the Council itself. And still more likely, given the culture of local government, that the council's own inspector would give the council's developing department more of a hard time than would some private firm hired for the same purpose. The former has some degree of job security whereas the latter could be replaced by another firm very easily.Richard_Nabavi said:
It seems very unlikely that that explanation will cover all the cases. Bear in mind that the 'developer' was most likely to be a local council, and most often a Labour council at that. I find it hard to believe that in all those hundreds of cases they would always have used the external inspectors rather than their own.IanB2 said:I expect the principal problems will prove to be that the "inspectors" were generally hired by the developer or builder, hence they paid most attention to the needs of the people paying them, and that the regulations were overlain with detailed "guidance" from sector bodies like the BCA and NHBC, and in practice inspections were made to these guidelines rather than the intent of the original regulations.
0 -
So Kipper votes count for less than other votes do they?The_Apocalypse said:
To your first point - I literally adressed that several posts ago. Kippers came back home. And in addressing your second point, this had nothing to do with how great TMay was or because 'she hadn't told them they were little Englanders.' They came back because of Brexit. Once that happened, there was very little reason to vote UKIP for many people. TMay owes her extra votes to Cameron's (ill-judged error) in holding an EUref more than anything else.Mortimer said:
Gah. Then how do you explain the millions more votes May received over Cameron?The_Apocalypse said:
In a GE relative popularity is the same thing as electoral popularity.Mortimer said:
You're mixing relative popularity up with electoral popularity.The_Apocalypse said:
It is.Mortimer said:It really isn't. Because the only means by which individuals can express their preference is with their own individual cast ballot. Millions more voted for May and Corbyn. They were both way more popular than Cameron and Miliband.
While Corbyn was more popular than Miliband, TMay was not, in the end, more popular than Cameron. Her own personal ratings declined substantially during the campaign to the point that she is now where Jeremy Corbyn was a few months ago in the eyes of the public. It was the decline in May's personal ratings during the campaign, which followed the trajectory of a decreasing Tory lead, and thus subsequently the turning of the position of a Conservative majority at the start of the campaign to a situation of the Tories losing their majority on June 8th.
And opinion polls with reality...
One opinion poll - Survation and also The YouGov Model turned out to match with reality come the GE.
Voters returned to her from UKIP because she hadn't told them they were little Englanders. It isn't hard to comprehend.
I'm not saying she was great, I'm not saying she performed better relatively than cameron. But the total numbers of total votes don't lie.
The total number of votes don't necessarily symbolise what you may think they do. Otherwise, TMay's ratings wouldn't be in the dustbin right now....
I just find it difficult to understand why you're evening bothering to argue against total numbers of votes implying popularity.0 -
To your first point, no I didn't say that. I simply said that TMay gaining extra votes was down to Kippers coming back because UKIP had no purpose anymore since Leave won. I'm not going to say it for a fourth time.Mortimer said:So Kipper votes count for less than other votes do they?
I just find it difficult to understand why you're evening bothering to argue against total numbers of votes implying popularity.
To your second point, because in this case, they don't - we have a number of indicators - TMay's declining personal ratings, her losing the majority - which indicate this.
0 -
The football fan who shouted "F you, I'm Millwall" when he took on three London terror attackers armed with knives has told BBC 5 live why he stood up to them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40481335/hero-millwall-fan-returns-to-london-borough-market-attack
I believe the word the BBC are looking for is terrorists.0
This discussion has been closed.