politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » One thing’s for sure post GE17 – incumbent PMs won’t risk skip
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12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.0 -
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:0 -
Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?0 -
The threshold shouldn't be a fixed number of seats - a percentage is better - 10% of seats at the last election or 15% in 12 opinion polls in the 6 months preceding the election being called. Something like that.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The options below all seem prefabricated to artificially accommodate the Greens (1 seat) or the LibDems ("3 main parties" lololol).0 -
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.0 -
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We are net contributors. They're just repatriating a percentage of our own cash.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
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12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.0 -
The devil is in the detail. Which parties? Which broadcasters?Charles said:
And that's the issue: commercial entities should not be actors in the political process.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
It would be meaningless as the current incumbent of Number 10 almost certainly isn't going to be the Conservative leader at the next election. Anyway, Corbyn would just say "I'd love to debate with you. Does that mean there's an election in the Autumn? Anyway, call me when you've finished your leadership infighting and set a date. Cheers."Richard_Nabavi said:
If I were advising No 10, I'd suggest a pre-emptive strike, very publicly challenging Corbyn (or whoever is LOTO at the time) to a one-on-one debate, and let the broadcasters play catch-up. I wouldn't want a format where the entire thing is taken up with half a dozen leaders given a free rein to gang up on the government without any opportunity to hit back at the actual alternative government's position.AlastairMeeks said:So, which parties are going to be invited/expected to appear in the line-up next time?
Without an answer to that question it's far from clear the debates will take place at all.
Additionally, the broadcasters have a lot of cards to play here. So they'd basically say, "We need to comply with Ofcom impartiality rules. Exactly what that means for the 2022 debate (if it is 2022) depends on the political scene at the time so we're not going to limit the debate to two people now. The most we will do is set some objective rules around who gets an invitation. Now you guys can 'agree' what you like outside the broadcasting context... perhaps you want to live stream it on Mumsnet or something else outside traditional regulations, and see how big an audience you get. But we're the one with TV studios and the reach of tens of millions, and we'll contact you nearer the time with your invitations to OUR debates."
If we have to have debates the format should be set out by law/agreed between the parties and the broadcasters compelled to show them as a condition of their licence
The system used in the US is bipartisan but it's far easier there for the Republicans and Democrats to stitch it up between them, given how much smaller the third-parties are over there. Britain's strong regional parties and larger third parties make life much harder. So if the parties and broadcasters can't agree some kind of permanent commission then they'll have to continue to wing it each time.0 -
Elected representatives out of step with the party membership? I thought that was meant to be Labour's problem.Scott_P said:0 -
But I was repeatedly told that when Farage left, UKIP would become more mainstream!calum said:0 -
And if a minor party says that it won't go into coalition with anyone ... that rules them out?TheScreamingEagles said:
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.0 -
Mr. Eagles, but Farron said (both before and after) the election the Lib Dems wouldn't do deals with anyone.
Also, the SNP wouldn't do a deal with the Conservatives.
And the closest we have to a minor party in coalition is the DUP.
We need a set formula, not broadcasters making it up as they go.0 -
Bless, you actually think what a party and their leader say before an election is an unbreakable bond?GeoffM said:
And if a minor party says that it won't go into coalition with anyone ... that rules them out?TheScreamingEagles said:
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.0 -
You mean like Cameron saying he would serve a full term?TheScreamingEagles said:
Bless, you actually think what a party and their leader say before an election is an unbreakable bond?GeoffM said:
And if a minor party says that it won't go into coalition with anyone ... that rules them out?TheScreamingEagles said:
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.0 -
But the Silly Nationalist Party would do a deal with Labour.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, but Farron said (both before and after) the election the Lib Dems wouldn't do deals with anyone.
Also, the SNP wouldn't do a deal with the Conservatives.
And the closest we have to a minor party in coalition is the DUP.
We need a set formula, not broadcasters making it up as they go.
What we really need is what those bloody colonials have, a Commission on Presidential Debates.0 -
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.0 -
Events dear boy, we've been through this before.SandyRentool said:
You mean like Cameron saying he would serve a full term?TheScreamingEagles said:
Bless, you actually think what a party and their leader say before an election is an unbreakable bond?GeoffM said:
And if a minor party says that it won't go into coalition with anyone ... that rules them out?TheScreamingEagles said:
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.
Only the terminally stupid expected to Cameron to continue if he lost the referendum.
He only said what he said before the vote about not resigning because people would have framed it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave'
If he had continued, bell end Leavers (of which you are not) would have made his job impossible. They would have been banging on 'Dave couldn't get a good renegotiation, how will he get a good Brexit deal?'0 -
That is just too subjective. Standing in more than 50% + 1 seat is fixed. It shows national coverage, and funding. Let's be honest who know whether the opinion polls are correct. I think the lib dms should be included because they are a national party. If the Greens and UKIP stand in 326 seats then they should be included.GeoffM said:
The threshold shouldn't be a fixed number of seats - a percentage is better - 10% of seats at the last election or 15% in 12 opinion polls in the 6 months preceding the election being called. Something like that.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The options below all seem prefabricated to artificially accommodate the Greens (1 seat) or the LibDems ("3 main parties" lololol).0 -
Commercial entities? You mean stupid newspapers that do nothing but cheerlead their preferred party.Charles said:
And that's the issue: commercial entities should not be actors in the political process.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
It would be meaningless as the current incumbent of Number 10 almost certainly isn't going to be the Conservative leader at the next election. Anyway, Corbyn would just say "I'd love to debate with you. Does that mean there's an election in the Autumn? Anyway, call me when you've finished your leadership infighting and set a date. Cheers."Richard_Nabavi said:
If I were advising No 10, I'd suggest a pre-emptive strike, very publicly challenging Corbyn (or whoever is LOTO at the time) to a one-on-one debate, and let the broadcasters play catch-up. I wouldn't want a format where the entire thing is taken up with half a dozen leaders given a free rein to gang up on the government without any opportunity to hit back at the actual alternative government's position.AlastairMeeks said:So, which parties are going to be invited/expected to appear in the line-up next time?
Without an answer to that question it's far from clear the debates will take place at all.
Additionally, the broadcasters have a lot of cards to play here. So they'd basically say, "We need to comply with Ofcom impartiality rules. Exactly what that means for the 2022 debate (if it is 2022) depends on the political scene at the time so we're not going to limit the debate to two people now. The most we will do is set some objective rules around who gets an invitation. Now you guys can 'agree' what you like outside the broadcasting context... perhaps you want to live stream it on Mumsnet or something else outside traditional regulations, and see how big an audience you get. But we're the one with TV studios and the reach of tens of millions, and we'll contact you nearer the time with your invitations to OUR debates."
If we have to have debates the format should be set out by law/agreed between the parties and the broadcasters compelled to show them as a condition of their licence
Or how about broadcasters putting the leaders on the spot - giving them tough questions to answer. But not Theresa cos she was frit.0 -
Labour Leave did frame it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave' (and George too!). We got to have our cake and eat it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Events dear boy, we've been through this before.SandyRentool said:
You mean like Cameron saying he would serve a full term?TheScreamingEagles said:
Bless, you actually think what a party and their leader say before an election is an unbreakable bond?GeoffM said:
And if a minor party says that it won't go into coalition with anyone ... that rules them out?TheScreamingEagles said:
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.
Only the terminally stupid expected to Cameron to continue if he lost the referendum.
He only said what he said before the vote about not resigning because people would have framed it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave'
If he had continued, bell end Leavers (of which you are not) would have made his job impossible. They would have been banging on 'Dave couldn't get a good renegotiation, how will he get a good Brexit deal?'0 -
To Anna Soubry, yes.NickPalmer said:
Locally, Anna Soubry boycotted all the debates too - perhaps was a general Tory instruction?Richard_Nabavi said:The problem wasn't just skipping the debate, it was the fact that skipping the debate reinforced an existing impression that she was avoiding the public and even avoiding interviews. What's more, it wasn't just her personally - with the honourable exception of Amber Rudd, cabinet ministers seemed to be AWOL during the campaign.
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Thats brilliantGeoffM said:
That's a good point well made. Much worse than Blair and Iraq.PClipp said:
"A political genius who had boldly taken the initiative", eh? Hardly that. More a lying scumbag. She said on numerous occasions that the next election would be in 2020, that there would be no cut and run, etc etc She is worse that Blair with his lies about Iraq.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst I don't disagree, I do find the speed with which political history is being rewritten very dizzying. It's only about 12 weeks since Mrs May was near-universally regarded as a political genius who had boldly taken the initiative and caught her opponents off-guard, and whose character and positioning was such that she was reaching deep into Labour seats in the North.PClipp said:
Retrospectively, the real problem for Mrs May was the impression that she was using the general election to create an effective dictatorship, with herself in charge. A lot of people people held their noses (as Mrs Toynbee once expressed it) and voted Labour in order to stop this. And Labour have now taken this as an endorsement of their extreme Socialist position.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yeah, well she got her wish - bigtime.TheScreamingEagles said:It wasn't down to the cabinet ministers to be AWOL, Mrs May wanted the election to be about her.
Mrs May is a very stupid woman. She has brought the country to where we are now.
I think we should have a minute's silence for all of the soldiers who died in the 2017 Election Campaign.0 -
Mr. Colin, welcome to the site.
Do you really believe broadcasters should be able to dictate the course of a campaign?
They exist to report on events and provide news, not to determine the course of events and create the news.0 -
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers0 -
Actually I agree with your formulation completely.Nemtynakht said:
That is just too subjective. Standing in more than 50% + 1 seat is fixed. It shows national coverage, and funding. Let's be honest who know whether the opinion polls are correct. I think the lib dms should be included because they are a national party. If the Greens and UKIP stand in 326 seats then they should be included.GeoffM said:
The threshold shouldn't be a fixed number of seats - a percentage is better - 10% of seats at the last election or 15% in 12 opinion polls in the 6 months preceding the election being called. Something like that.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The options below all seem prefabricated to artificially accommodate the Greens (1 seat) or the LibDems ("3 main parties" lololol).
I'll pony up the £163k to get enough candidates up. Then I'll get my hour of fame on stage ... live on national tv.
You lot can all bet on how many minutes in to the debate that I will declare my really quite unhealthy obsession with Sophy Ridge, get my cock out on stage and start swinging it around. It'll be worth every penny.
Let's just hope that she's actually moderating that debate. Otherwise it'll be odd.0 -
That was even weaker than I expected. He's hoping for an agreement at some point. Gives no date.0
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He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...TheScreamingEagles said:
Events dear boy, we've been through this before.SandyRentool said:
You mean like Cameron saying he would serve a full term?TheScreamingEagles said:
Bless, you actually think what a party and their leader say before an election is an unbreakable bond?GeoffM said:
And if a minor party says that it won't go into coalition with anyone ... that rules them out?TheScreamingEagles said:
Party leaders who are likely to be either PM/Deputy PM after the election.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, the Lib Dems aren't even the third party.
What criteria would you draw up for a formula to determine inclusion in a major debate?
So would allow the Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, and the SNP to appear.
Four seems a reasonable number.
Only the terminally stupid expected to Cameron to continue if he lost the referendum.
He only said what he said before the vote about not resigning because people would have framed it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave'
If he had continued, bell end Leavers (of which you are not) would have made his job impossible. They would have been banging on 'Dave couldn't get a good renegotiation, how will he get a good Brexit deal?'
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I heard only four things about the debates:
(1) May ducked out of one, because she was frit
(2) May told a woman who hadn't had a pay rise for years that there was no "magic money tree"
(3) Corbyn was much better than expected
(4) Paxman was a dick
From that I conclude (a) they're important, (b) most people pay little attention to politics until the final weeks of an election campaign, and, (c) being shit at debates or trying to avoid them will no longer wash.
Ergo, if you're a PM or candidate to be one, get better at doing debates.0 -
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Even if you're poor at debating, I'm sure you get more credit for attending than if you don't attend.Casino_Royale said:I heard only four things about the debates:
(1) May ducked out of one, because she was frit
(2) May told a woman who hadn't had a pay rise for years that there was no "magic money tree"
(3) Corbyn was much better than expected
(4) Paxman was a dick
From that I conclude (a) they're important, (b) most people pay little attention to politics until the final weeks of an election campaign, and, (c) being shit at debates or trying to avoid them will no longer wash.
Ergo, if you're a PM or candidate to be one, get better at doing debates.0 -
I'd conclude from this that Sinn Fein no longer consider that a functioning Assembly suits their interests. They are making demands which they know full well neither the British government nor Unionists would concede.calum said:0 -
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.0 -
But I was repeatedly told that when Farage left, UKIP would become more mainstreamScott_P said:0 -
I'm not sure if Stratton Mills took the Liberal whip, when he defected from the UUP to Alliance. For that matter, did Naomi Long take the Lib Dem whip from 2010-15.GeoffM said:
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.
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Re the saga of Betfair's bounced cheque: the £1,000 has finally turned up in my bank account, three weeks and two days since my original withdrawal request.0
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Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/8815357662870650900 -
isam said:
But because of the broken nature of our electoral system, a large number of Lib Dem (and Green Party) supporters felt they had to vote for their local Labour candidate in order to prevent the TMay dictatorship.david_herdson said:They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal. The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
The number of seats means nothing under our broken electoral system.0 -
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Mazel tov.Richard_Nabavi said:Re the saga of Betfair's bounced cheque: the £1,000 has finally turned up in my bank account, three weeks and two days since my original withdrawal request.
I trust u will be charging them 5% commission?0 -
There never was anyone else.Slackbladder said:
Pre Farage Leadership- 3%
Farage - Win Euros, 13%, force referendum, win referendum
Post Farage - 2%0 -
Mr. Nabavi, glad it got sorted but that's a faff and a half.0
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On the TV Debates, I agree, but these things are going to be really tough for the sitting PM. If its a 5 or 6 way bun-fight, then all the opposition leaders will be looking to tear pieces out of the PM, especially if (at the moment) we have an inbalance in left and right parties.
A reduction to the 3 way at most is needed.0 -
According to wiki ... Naomi Long didn't.Sean_F said:
I'm not sure if Stratton Mills took the Liberal whip, when he defected from the UUP to Alliance. For that matter, did Naomi Long take the Lib Dem whip from 2010-15.GeoffM said:
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.
It would have been annoying if she'd been the one to ruin my point as I helped with the TUV campaign that year and my guy got more votes than Peter Robinson lost by.0 -
As one of the "terminally stupid", I expected the Prime Minister of our country to speak the truth and make clear his intentions.isam said:
He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...TheScreamingEagles said:Only the terminally stupid expected to Cameron to continue if he lost the referendum.
He only said what he said before the vote about not resigning because people would have framed it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave'
If he had continued, bell end Leavers (of which you are not) would have made his job impossible. They would have been banging on 'Dave couldn't get a good renegotiation, how will he get a good Brexit deal?'
His behaviour during the Referendum campaign was despicable, but I though he had standards....0 -
I did suggest that they might like to make an ex-gratia payment for the aggro. They've offered me a £10 free bet, an offer which I haven't fallen over myself to grab.Peter_the_Punter said:
Mazel tov.Richard_Nabavi said:Re the saga of Betfair's bounced cheque: the £1,000 has finally turned up in my bank account, three weeks and two days since my original withdrawal request.
I trust u will be charging them 5% commission?0 -
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.0 -
And how many kneecaps did you have to remove?Richard_Nabavi said:Re the saga of Betfair's bounced cheque: the £1,000 has finally turned up in my bank account, three weeks and two days since my original withdrawal request.
0 -
I used their 'escalation' procedure (which basically comprises sending them an email to a particular email address), and to be fair to them they did phone me within a couple of hours of that. Even so, it still took a few more days for them to send me the dosh.Casino_Royale said:
And how many kneecaps did you have to remove?Richard_Nabavi said:Re the saga of Betfair's bounced cheque: the £1,000 has finally turned up in my bank account, three weeks and two days since my original withdrawal request.
0 -
Spanish soldiers and civil guards would march in, the moment they declared independence.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.0 -
How will it be fantastic? The Catalan separatists are the SNP of Spain.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.
In any case, it's unconstitutional.0 -
I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.0 -
No she didn't. Silly woman gave up the only chance an Alliance MP will have to sit on the government benches this lifetime.Sean_F said:
I'm not sure if Stratton Mills took the Liberal whip, when he defected from the UUP to Alliance. For that matter, did Naomi Long take the Lib Dem whip from 2010-15.GeoffM said:
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.0 -
Have you pointed out how much dosh you've earnt for them so far ?Richard_Nabavi said:
I used their 'escalation' procedure (which basically comprises sending them an email to a particular email address), and to be fair to them they did phone me within a couple of hours of that. Even so, it still took a few more days for them to send me the dosh.Casino_Royale said:
And how many kneecaps did you have to remove?Richard_Nabavi said:Re the saga of Betfair's bounced cheque: the £1,000 has finally turned up in my bank account, three weeks and two days since my original withdrawal request.
https://myaccount.betfair.com/activity/premium-charges
0 -
Mr. Royale, I believe May said more resources would be available for mental healthcare.
Mr. F, impossible. The EU guarantees peace in Europe.
Ahem.0 -
I think the lesson is that you must always fight a campaign on the basis that it's neck and neck, even if it isn't. Labour gave no quarter in 1997 and 2001.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.0 -
Very Franco-ist. The optics would be terrible. Even more effective if there were a martyr or two created. It would just take one Guardia with an itchy trigger finger.Sean_F said:
Spanish soldiers and civil guards would march in, the moment they declared independence.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.
It'd be the beginning of the end of Spain as a nation (woohoo!) and the lighting of a big signal bonfire for independence movements all over the place.0 -
Weird decision, not taking the whip of a party that is all but identical in terms of outlook.Lucian_Fletcher said:
No she didn't. Silly woman gave up the only chance an Alliance MP will have to sit on the government benches this lifetime.Sean_F said:
I'm not sure if Stratton Mills took the Liberal whip, when he defected from the UUP to Alliance. For that matter, did Naomi Long take the Lib Dem whip from 2010-15.GeoffM said:
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.0 -
Paul Sweeney *was* critical of Corbyn, eg he signed this letter.rkrkrk said:
Who are the critics he has brought in?NickPalmer said:Labour reshuffle (apols if posted previously), from Guardian blog. An ecumenical team - several vocal past critics of Corbyn in there.
Corbyn appoints 20 shadow ministers
Jeremy Corbyn has announced the appointment of 20 shadow ministers. Here is the list in full.
Environment
David Drew
Holly Lynch
Home Affairs
Nick Thomas Symonds
Chris Williamson
Afzal Khan
Louise Haigh
Scotland
Paul Sweeney
Justice
Gloria di Piero
Imran Hussain
International Development
Roberta Blackman Woods
Transport
Rachel Maskell
Karl Turner
Treasury
Anneliese Dodds
Housing
Tony Lloyd
Melanie Onn
Women and equalities
Carolyn Harris
Defence
Gerald Jones
Local Government
Yvonne Fovargue
Education
Tracey Brabin
Wales
Chris Ruane
'Scottish Labour members call for Corbyn to go'
http://tinyurl.com/y8l3okul
Mind you, haven't heard a mouse fart of dissent from anyone in SLab since 08/06/17.
0 -
Quote from a N Iegislator (in waiting): "He's such a dickhead".0
-
I think you underestimate Spanish resolve. These people are no push over.GeoffM said:
Very Franco-ist. The optics would be terrible. Even more effective if there were a martyr or two created. It would just take one Guardia with an itchy trigger finger.Sean_F said:
Spanish soldiers and civil guards would march in, the moment they declared independence.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.
It'd be the beginning of the end of Spain as a nation (woohoo!) and the lighting of a big signal bonfire for independence movements all over the place.0 -
That seems daft. After all, the SDLP always took the Labour whip.Lucian_Fletcher said:
No she didn't. Silly woman gave up the only chance an Alliance MP will have to sit on the government benches this lifetime.Sean_F said:
I'm not sure if Stratton Mills took the Liberal whip, when he defected from the UUP to Alliance. For that matter, did Naomi Long take the Lib Dem whip from 2010-15.GeoffM said:
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.0 -
It seems like a parent not approving of a child's prospective choice of partner because it isn't the safe option they prefer, then refusing to give any support to the couple when they get together and laughing when it goes wrong and everyone's miserablePClipp said:
As one of the "terminally stupid", I expected the Prime Minister of our country to speak the truth and make clear his intentions.isam said:
He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...TheScreamingEagles said:Only the terminally stupid expected to Cameron to continue if he lost the referendum.
He only said what he said before the vote about not resigning because people would have framed it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave'
If he had continued, bell end Leavers (of which you are not) would have made his job impossible. They would have been banging on 'Dave couldn't get a good renegotiation, how will he get a good Brexit deal?'
His behaviour during the Referendum campaign was despicable, but I though he had standards....0 -
Than which there is probably no better lesson to learn from June.Sean_F said:
I think the lesson is that you must always fight a campaign on the basis that it's neck and neck, even if it isn't. Labour gave no quarter in 1997 and 2001.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.0 -
Quite obvious that both Foster and O'Neill couldn't give two hoots what Brokenshire says or does.Lucian_Fletcher said:Quote from a N Iegislator (in waiting): "He's such a dickhead".
He obviously looks crap and out of his depth. But in all honesty just where is his leverage. Since the Gov't has a deal with the DUP now, he carries about as much weight as a sackful of rocking horse manure.0 -
F1: with tiny sums (obviously this won't be included in the race weekend records) I've backed each Force India and Williams driver to win, odds varying from 201 to 501.
Red Bull, all else being equal, will lose out. The circuit, as far as I remember, is all about straight line speed. So, if the top two teams suffer misfortune or incompetence, it won't be Red Bull but the Pink Panthers or Williams who benefit. [Unless it's wet, then back Verstappen].
Red Bulls are in the 20s. I'd have them in the 50s and Perez around 67, or something like that. Also because the Red Bulls are fundamentally less reliable than the Force Indias.
Anyway, odds against, but this sort of thing only needs to come off once every few years to be very green overall.0 -
I don't think it matters in any case. Sinn Fein are seeking the Moon on a stick, as their price for participating in the Executive, and the DUP have no incentive to oblige them.Pulpstar said:
Quite obvious that both Foster and O'Neill couldn't give two hoots what Brokenshire says or does.Lucian_Fletcher said:Quote from a N Iegislator (in waiting): "He's such a dickhead".
He obviously looks crap and out of his depth. But in all honesty just where is his leverage. Since the Gov't has a deal with the DUP now, he carries about as much weight as a sackful of rocking horse manure.0 -
I said the "beginning of the end" rather than "the end" as, yes, the Spanish are as stubborn as a mule.Sean_F said:
I think you underestimate Spanish resolve. These people are no push over.GeoffM said:
Very Franco-ist. The optics would be terrible. Even more effective if there were a martyr or two created. It would just take one Guardia with an itchy trigger finger.Sean_F said:
Spanish soldiers and civil guards would march in, the moment they declared independence.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.
It'd be the beginning of the end of Spain as a nation (woohoo!) and the lighting of a big signal bonfire for independence movements all over the place.
But the sight of blood and the optics of repression of a democratic vote by force will sow seeds.0 -
From the party of Nick Clegg and abolishing tuition fees, I find that incredibly touching.PClipp said:
As one of the "terminally stupid", I expected the Prime Minister of our country to speak the truth and make clear his intentions.isam said:
He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...TheScreamingEagles said:Only the terminally stupid expected to Cameron to continue if he lost the referendum.
He only said what he said before the vote about not resigning because people would have framed it as 'Vote Leave and get rid of Dave'
If he had continued, bell end Leavers (of which you are not) would have made his job impossible. They would have been banging on 'Dave couldn't get a good renegotiation, how will he get a good Brexit deal?'
His behaviour during the Referendum campaign was despicable, but I though he had standards....0 -
Totally stupid. Alliance are great at whining in a holier than thou attitude from the sidelines.Sean_F said:
That seems daft. After all, the SDLP always took the Labour whip.Lucian_Fletcher said:
No she didn't. Silly woman gave up the only chance an Alliance MP will have to sit on the government benches this lifetime.Sean_F said:
I'm not sure if Stratton Mills took the Liberal whip, when he defected from the UUP to Alliance. For that matter, did Naomi Long take the Lib Dem whip from 2010-15.GeoffM said:
Until recently the DUP had an MP in Basingstoke.isam said:
They only won slightly fewer than the LDs and seeing as they stood in about 600 fewer seats, I would say that makes them equal.david_herdson said:
Why does the number contested matter? It's not as if the DUP would have won West Bromwich East if they'd bothered to stand there.isam said:
12/600+ doesn't really compare with the % of seats won that DUP have won/contesteddavid_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The debates should just be Tory vs Labour. The others can have their own programme but its crazy to say that the LDs get equal billing with parties that get 20 times their seat numbers
When was the last LibDem MP from NI?
On that basis only one of them is truly a UK-wide party and it isn't the dead parrots.0 -
Think he still has more than he realises or is willing to use.Pulpstar said:
Quite obvious that both Foster and O'Neill couldn't give two hoots what Brokenshire says or does.Lucian_Fletcher said:Quote from a N Iegislator (in waiting): "He's such a dickhead".
He obviously looks crap and out of his depth. But in all honesty just where is his leverage. Since the Gov't has a deal with the DUP now, he carries about as much weight as a sackful of rocking horse manure.
The public here would support the MLAs and their staff having their salaries binned. The phone ins are almost unanimous. Nobody is impressed.0 -
To be fair, Geoff lives in a place that has been under almost constant threat from Spain for decades. Even if that threat were not military it has still made life incredibly difficult for the people of Gibraltar. I don't think there would be many there who would be sorry to see Spain in a constitutional crisis.RoyalBlue said:
How will it be fantastic? The Catalan separatists are the SNP of Spain.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.
In any case, it's unconstitutional.0 -
Yes I was going to say - they're also a top 3 of awful bets on who the next leader will be.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yup, Cameron is still the best, Ruth is awesome on social media, so Osborne's get number three.rkrkrk said:
George only in 3rd?TheScreamingEagles said:
The really depressing thing is none of those three are MPs.0 -
Now who could've seen this coming?
http://news.sky.com/story/hinkley-point-c-nuclear-plant-hit-by-cost-over-run-and-delay-edf-109349430 -
Just trying to clear up the mess that Labour left behind. After all, it was Labour who introduced tuition fees in the first place.TheScreamingEagles said:
From the party of Nick Clegg and abolishing tuition fees, I find that incredibly touching.PClipp said:
As one of the "terminally stupid", I expected the Prime Minister of our country to speak the truth and make clear his intentions.isam said:He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...
His behaviour during the Referendum campaign was despicable, but I though he had standards....
And it was you Tories who were hell bent on putting them up.
Still, blame the Lib Dems for everything. We are used to it.
Why can`t you Tories/ Labour even have the gets to stand up for your own policies?
0 -
May handled the terrorist incidents wel,l as one would expect from an experienced previous Home Secretary.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.0 -
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.0 -
Well.Yorkcity said:
May handled the terrorist incidents wel,l as one would expect from an experienced previous Home Secretary.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.0 -
The YouGov model suggests that the real situation, at the point the election was called, was a Tory lead of around 4-6%, rising to 6-8% as soon as the announcement was made. I doubt the election would have been called at all, had ICM, ComRes et al been doing all those dodgy adjustments.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.
Nevertheless Mrs May was one of the first Tories to understand, in the aftermath of the Brexit vote, the widespread and deep dissatisfaction with the post-crash economic settlement, and she made all sorts of promises to those who were struggling, which she has yet to meet. It isn't too much to ask that she might have applied her mind to how that dissatisfaction might play out in the heat of an election campaign, nor that she might have considered actually coming up with and initiating some proposals to help the people she professed to care about, if she was going to trouble the electorate for their votes?0 -
We have the guts, that's why Dave's Tories marmalised the Lib Dems in 2015.PClipp said:
Just trying to clear up the mess that Labour left behind. After all, it was Labour who introduced tuition fees in the first place.TheScreamingEagles said:
From the party of Nick Clegg and abolishing tuition fees, I find that incredibly touching.PClipp said:
As one of the "terminally stupid", I expected the Prime Minister of our country to speak the truth and make clear his intentions.isam said:He should have stayed. He made an uncertain situation worse by quitting. If that makes me a terminally stupid bell end in your eyes, well...
His behaviour during the Referendum campaign was despicable, but I though he had standards....
And it was you Tories who were hell bent on putting them up.
Still, blame the Lib Dems for everything. We are used to it.
Why can`t you Tories/ Labour even have the gets to stand up for your own policies?
And on that bombshell, I have to go and write a best man's speech.0 -
Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't Catalunya the engine of Spain?Richard_Tyndall said:
To be fair, Geoff lives in a place that has been under almost constant threat from Spain for decades. Even if that threat were not military it has still made life incredibly difficult for the people of Gibraltar. I don't think there would be many there who would be sorry to see Spain in a constitutional crisis.RoyalBlue said:
How will it be fantastic? The Catalan separatists are the SNP of Spain.GeoffM said:
Fingers crossed. This will be a fantastic result if it happens.Morris_Dancer said:Meanwhile, will a city founded by the Barca family break away from the Treaty of Rome? [Forcing that a bit... but still].
https://twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/881535766287065090
The National Day of Catalonia is the day after Gibraltar National Day (10th/11th Sept) and we always swap representatives and delegates.
In any case, it's unconstitutional.
Comparisons with our valued Scottish neighbours might need a bit of correction given the current state of North Sea oil....0 -
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.0 -
The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.david_herdson said:
12 seats is more than the DUP have and they proved themselves relevant.Charles said:
Why do thein Dems get a free pass? Sub 10%, 12 seats, competitive in a dozen more perhaps.aschamberlain said:If there are more debates then I'd assume that UKIP won't feature. The Greens should probably be eliminated on the grounds that they are only competitive in Brighton.
The SNP and Plaid have their own regional debates to take part in and don't really fit well in a UK wide debate. However, the SNP probably deserve a special dispensation this time by virtue of the number of seats that they hold. The DUP probably have a better claim to a place than Plaid, given that they are more likely to hold the balance of power. However, including them would create issues with Sinn Fein, the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP.
My instinct would be to go for Lib, Lab, Con & SNP next time. If the SNP get smashed at the election, then I'd take the opportunity to revert to the traditional big three for the election after that. The 2010 debates were much more focussed and engaging to watch than the 2015 and 2017 versions.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.0 -
Given the evidence at the time - I could defend most of her decisions.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.
Even social care makes some sense if you think you are 20pts up.
Edit: I think not costing proposals was a big error that was avoidable.0 -
Yes, I never got the impression Osborne was particuarly popular with either the PCP or Conservative Members.Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
0 -
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.0 -
That posh boy is not George Osborne though.TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.0 -
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.0 -
Exactly.The_Apocalypse said:
That posh boy is not George Osborne though.TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
An old pal of mine on blind tastings always decrees the popular wine brands as bland but inoffensive.
Osborne's politics offended too many to ever be considered leadership material0 -
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
I still snigger childishly over this letterisam said:
A few days ago in bed a bottom burp of my husband's brought forth the unmistakable words "Pol Pot". The following morning I awoke to hear the news that the infamous leader of the Khmer Rouge had died. Last night my husband farted in the bath. It's not looking good for Edward Woodward.0 -
Mr. Eagles, if you're saying that success or failure is graded according to opposition then you must accept Hannibal was a better leader than Caesar.
Caesar scraped a victory against an ageing Pompey who was predictable and bullied into a needless battle by the Senate. Hannibal roamed around Italy for a decade and faced far more formidable opponents in Quintus Fabius Maximus, Nero, Marcellus, and Scipio.0 -
If she'd called it pre-A50, there's a very good chance she'd have won a landslide IMO.Casino_Royale said:I'm struggling to think of what May did that was right during the campaign.
I still think calling the election was the right decision, given the evidence available at the time. But almost everything went wrong after that.
It was probably inevitable that Corbyn would always have surged, but she could have held onto almost all the seats she lost, and gained a good dozen more, and got into the 360-365 seat bracket, just through competence and a slim, focussed, barnacle-free manifesto.
LD's on 20-30%, Corbyn's Lab on 20-30%
Con on 40-60%
450+ seats.
Brexit still needed to be uncertain for the campaign that she ran, to resonate. The manifesto should have been the A50 letter, which she was asking the British electorate to sign.0 -
Caesar became the byword for Kings.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, if you're saying that success or failure is graded according to opposition then you must accept Hannibal was a better leader than Caesar.
Caesar scraped a victory against an ageing Pompey who was predictable and bullied into a needless battle by the Senate. Hannibal roamed around Italy for a decade and faced far more formidable opponents in Quintus Fabius Maximus, Nero, Marcellus, and Scipio.
What did Hannibal become the byword for?
Caesar is the most famous Caesar, whereas Hannibal Barca is probably the third most famous Hannibal, after Hannibal Lecter and John 'Hannibal' Smith from The A-Team.0 -
How many additional seats do you think the DUP would have won in the other 632 non Ulster seats ?Alice_Aforethought said:The DUP contested, what, 14 seats in one region? - and won 10.
The LibDems contested 600+ seats and won, what, 14?
They're just so irrelevant. They are to politics what Lola were to formula one.0 -
Mr. Eagles, emperors, not kings. German for emperor is Kaiser, for king is Konig (umlaut on the O, I think).
Julius Caesar enjoyed supreme authority for less time than Theresa May.0 -
The thing is that young voters, regrettably, just don't care about the opposition because attention focuses on the party that has been in charge for seven years. David Cameron, conversely, failed to get a majority after ten years of New Labour, during a financial crisis, and against a man who called a nice old lady "bigoted" in the middle of the campaign.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.0 -
Flip it on it's head and you wonder why Cameron couldn't get as many votes in 2015 as Jeremy Corbyn in the 2017.TheScreamingEagles said:
But lost Dave's majority to Corbyn, to JEREMY CORBYN, Mrs May failed to win a majority against the terrorist sympathising, economically illiterate, turn us into Venezuela, and make Diane Abbott Home Secretary Trot.Mortimer said:
To be fair, she won a shed load more votes than Cammo....TheScreamingEagles said:
And you also said Mrs May was going to be so wildly popular with Tory members and the country, how'd that turn out?Mortimer said:
There would also be an exodus of members.The_Apocalypse said:
I wonder what Dan Hannan will do in his post-MEP life.logical_song said:
Why is the party that campaigned to leave the EU and won still collecting the highly lucrative MEP salaries/expenses?williamglenn said:
@TheScreamingEagles Osborne would be an awful choice for leader. Very popular in the Westminster Village and among some socially liberal Tories, but I cannot see him appealing to the wider public. He would neither attract the WWC nor young voters/Londoners for the Tories.
Anyone who has ever canvassed for the Tories know how toxic he is on the doorstep.
The country likes a posh boy.
If you think that's a success then I can't help you.
I think history will prove us both right about the negatives and both wrong about the positives; neither Cameron nor May were/are popular, and neither a wonderful tactician....0
