540,000 in one year. Incredible. We're gonna hit 70m in a few years, 80m seems inevitable. Without trying, we will soon dwarf countries like Italy.
The BBC story is a bit vage on the dates, but I am assuming the increase is between 31 Dec 2015, to 31 Dec 2016. i.e. including over 6 mouths after the referendum.
I do hope that that all the Doom Mongers and others who love to talk down this country, could look at this and accept that we live in a great place, that's why so many other people what to live hear. People what to move hear become its a safe, open and wealthy nation that offers opportunity to those who come, and while some bits could be improved and made even better, we are not doing bad.
Economic hubs like West Belfast, Glasgow and Liverpool.
There is not a uniform correlation, but the areas with the most population growth voted Remain, those with little or in population decline voted Leave.
Because people that like to live in busy cities don't care about immigration. People who like to live in less dense areas do. Not all of us want to end up like London.
Or possibly, living alongside immigrants mellows views on them. I was brought up in a very white part of Britain and only really mixed with BME Britons in the 1980's in London, then in the Midlands.
I did look at a Consultant job in Truro, but dropped out. Amongst my reasons to do so is that after living in Leicester for a decade, it did seem rather socially bland.There were other job related reasons, such as wanting a teaching hospital post with a bit more variety of interest.
I agree - it's fear of the unknown... having lived and worked in various parts of the country, north and south, urban and rural, it's those areas with fewest immigrants that you're most likely to encounter anti-immigrant feeling.
Britain has plenty of space to expand its population. It just needs to explore the third dimension a bit more.
If there is one thing we have learnt in recent days, it is that even those people who live in high rises don't like living in them.
There is no need to go to 25 storeys or even 10. Though contrary to your assertion, a lot of very expensive flats in London are high rise.
Inner city Paris is limited to 6 stories as I recall, which does seem to combine high density and high quality housing quite well. The high rises of the outskirts much less so.
I have not long got back from Stockholm and Copenhagen where rather smart apartments of good quality are fairly ubiquitous.
I think Nick P pointed out the other day, the biggest influence on the attraction of housing is good maintenence, tidiness and good neighbours. Height, not so much.
Is this the Conservative version of the calls the Lib Dems where allegedly making from Egypt?
The Egypt part was shown to be complete bollcoks caused by Guido being an idiot. The calls were from a number beginning 0203 which he confused with he international code for Egypt
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
540,000 in one year. Incredible. We're gonna hit 70m in a few years, 80m seems inevitable. Without trying, we will soon dwarf countries like Italy.
The BBC story is a bit vage on the dates, but I am assuming the increase is between 31 Dec 2015, to 31 Dec 2016. i.e. including over 6 mouths after the referendum.
Economic hubs like West Belfast, Glasgow and Liverpool.
There is not a uniform correlation, but the areas with the most population growth voted Remain, those with little or in population decline voted Leave.
Because people that like to live in busy cities don't care about immigration. People who like to live in less dense areas do. Not all of us want to end up like London.
Or possibly, living alongside immigrants mellows views on them. I was brought up in a very white part of Britain and only really mixed with BME Britons in the 1980's in London, then in the Midlands.
I did look at a Consultant job in Truro, but dropped out. Amongst my reasons to do so is that after living in Leicester for a decade, it did seem rather socially bland.There were other job related reasons, such as wanting a teaching hospital post with a bit more variety of interest.
I agree - it's fear of the unknown... having lived and worked in various parts of the country, north and south, urban and rural, it's those areas with fewest immigrants that you're most likely to encounter anti-immigrant feeling.
Social class makes a big difference too. The social lubrication of a bit of money and some education makes for a bit more mixing and integration.It is why the East African Asians of Leicester are very well adapted, even when forming strong communities of their own.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
There has to be accommodation for situations like yours but no way will the UK population allow ECJ rule over any of it's citizens
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
In the most densely populated country in Western Europe?
Economic hubs like West Belfast, Glasgow and Liverpool.
There is not a uniform correlation, but the areas with the most population growth voted Remain, those with little or in population decline voted Leave.
Because people that like to live in busy cities don't care about immigration. People who like to live in less dense areas do. Not all of us want to end up like London.
An absurd position given that most of the immigrants live in the busy cities.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
The answer to this* is surely accelerated citizenship for EU citizens permenantly resident here on 29th March 2017?
* I have a friend who is a recently qualified doctor, with EU nationality, but resident in Britain 17 years. If she works overseas for a year (quite common for junior doctors wanting wider experience and research) then she would lose her right to return.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
Yup. Its pretty straightforward.
No. The whole point was people could move as easily to Provence as to Pinner. Tell me what's wrong with that?
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
Yup. Its pretty straightforward.
No. The whole point was people could move as easily to Provence as to Pinner. Tell me what's wrong with that?
More people view free migration as an imposition than a benefit.
540,000 in one year. Incredible. We're gonna hit 70m in a few years, 80m seems inevitable. Without trying, we will soon dwarf countries like Italy.
The BBC story is a bit vage on the dates, but I am assuming the increase is between 31 Dec 2015, to 31 Dec 2016. i.e. including over 6 mouths after the referendum.
I do hope that that all the Doom Mongers and others who love to talk down this country, could look at this and accept that we live in a great place, that's why so many other people what to live hear. People what to move hear become its a safe, open and wealthy nation that offers opportunity to those who come, and while some bits could be improved and made even better, we are not doing bad.
Economic hubs like West Belfast, Glasgow and Liverpool.
There is not a uniform correlation, but the areas with the most population growth voted Remain, those with little or in population decline voted Leave.
Because people that like to live in busy cities don't care about immigration. People who like to live in less dense areas do. Not all of us want to end up like London.
Or possibly, living alongside immigrants mellows views on them. I was brought up in a very white part of Britain and only really mixed with BME Britons in the 1980's in London, then in the Midlands.
I did look at a Consultant job in Truro, but dropped out. Amongst my reasons to do so is that after living in Leicester for a decade, it did seem rather socially bland.There were other job related reasons, such as wanting a teaching hospital post with a bit more variety of interest.
So you didn't take the job because too many white people ,is that right.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
Yup. Its pretty straightforward.
No. The whole point was people could move as easily to Provence as to Pinner. Tell me what's wrong with that?
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
Yup. Its pretty straightforward.
No. The whole point was people could move as easily to Provence as to Pinner. Tell me what's wrong with that?
More people view free migration as an imposition than a benefit.
Mostly people think that , like taxes, immigration rules are for other people, not themselves.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
You should if you have been told you do. I thought we were opposed to retrospective legislation in this country.
540,000 in one year. Incredible. We're gonna hit 70m in a few years, 80m seems inevitable. Without trying, we will soon dwarf countries like Italy.
The BBC story is a bit vage on the dates, but I am assuming the increase is between 31 Dec 2015, to 31 Dec 2016. i.e. including over 6 mouths after the referendum.
I do hope that that all the Doom Mongers and others who love to talk down this country, could look at this and accept that we live in a great place, that's why so many other people what to live hear. People what to move hear become its a safe, open and wealthy nation that offers opportunity to those who come, and while some bits could be improved and made even better, we are not doing bad.
Economic hubs like West Belfast, Glasgow and Liverpool.
There is not a uniform correlation, but the areas with the most population growth voted Remain, those with little or in population decline voted Leave.
Because people that like to live in busy cities don't care about immigration. People who like to live in less dense areas do. Not all of us want to end up like London.
Or possibly, living alongside immigrants mellows views on them. I was brought up in a very white part of Britain and only really mixed with BME Britons in the 1980's in London, then in the Midlands.
I did look at a Consultant job in Truro, but dropped out. Amongst my reasons to do so is that after living in Leicester for a decade, it did seem rather socially bland.There were other job related reasons, such as wanting a teaching hospital post with a bit more variety of interest.
So you didn't take the job because too many white people ,is that right.
Partly, but also without a University and the broader intellectual life that I had become used to.
Hospitals are some of the most multicultural places to work, even in places like Cornwall or Cumbria.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
You should if you have been told you do. I thought we were opposed to retrospective legislation in this country.
Where do you get that idea from?
Back in 1962, we ended free migration from the Commonwealth.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
You should if you have been told you do. I thought we were opposed to retrospective legislation in this country.
Where do you get that idea from?
Back in 1962, we ended free migration from the Commonwealth.
Not retrospectively. The UK government is proposing to remove rights from EU27 and UK citizens that they currently enjoy and made life-changing decisions based on.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. snip ar.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
The answer to this* is surely accelerated citizenship for EU citizens permenantly resident here on 29th March 2017?
* I have a friend who is a recently qualified doctor, with EU nationality, but resident in Britain 17 years. If she works overseas for a year (quite common for junior doctors wanting wider experience and research) then she would lose her right to return.
That has been the answer from day one after Brexit - just create a streamlined system for EU citizens to establish permanent residency and ultimately citizenship if that is what they want to do. But instead they have just had one embarrassing fuck up after the next, ie writing letters to longstanding EU citizens telling them to go home, turning us in to a national embarrassment, making the negotiations more difficult.
Another issue though is cost, I looked in to it and I think we are looking at around £2k to obtain citizenship, plus surrendering my wifes passport for 6 months plus while they process the application. Why should we have to pay that amount of money and go through all that hassle just to secure the same rights that we had pre Brexit?
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. snip ar.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
The answer to this* is surely accelerated citizenship for EU citizens permenantly resident here on 29th March 2017?
* I have a friend who is a recently qualified doctor, with EU nationality, but resident in Britain 17 years. If she works overseas for a year (quite common for junior doctors wanting wider experience and research) then she would lose her right to return.
That has been the answer from day one after Brexit - just create a streamlined system for EU citizens to establish permanent residency and ultimately citizenship if that is what they want to do. But instead they have just had one embarrassing fuck up after the next, ie writing letters to longstanding EU citizens telling them to go home, turning us in to a national embarrassment, making the negotiations more difficult.
Another issue though is cost, I looked in to it and I think we are looking at around £2k to obtain citizenship, plus surrendering my wifes passport for 6 months plus while they process the application. Why should we have to pay that amount of money and go through all that hassle just to secure the same rights that we had pre Brexit?
As a UK citizen living in Denmark with my Danish wife I think you have an incredibly entitled take on what countries do or don't do - I might get Danish citizenship after 8 years, a tiresome buraucratic process, a language and citizenship exam, proof I have passed my other Danish language exams and have been in full time employment with a complete tax record
Unlike you I think this is up to the Danes even though they keep changing the rules every year or so
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status you have few rights compared with a UK citizen. You are still a second class citizen. IE one of my exes was stuck in visa purgatory for seven years, reapplying for visas every year costing a fortune each time. Eventually she got indefinite leave to remain. But then she went away to work overseas, and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
You should if you have been told you do. I thought we were opposed to retrospective legislation in this country.
Where do you get that idea from?
Back in 1962, we ended free migration from the Commonwealth.
Not retrospectively. The UK government is proposing to remove rights from EU27 and UK citizens that they currently enjoy and made life-changing decisions based on.
Actually, yes. People lost the right to migrate here. People here lost the right to bring in spouses and other family members. And no one fought of giving jurisdiction to the Supreme Courts of India and Pakistan.
May's offer is not as good as it looks. It is equivalent to saying that you can have permanent residency if you have been here for five years. But it isn't the same deal as what you have now if you are an EU citizen, which is an absolute right to live and work here. What if you leave the UK for a while? Do you then have a right to return? They would probably still deport you if you commit a minor crime under the proposed arrangements. They can change the rules after Brexit as much as they want. That is why the EU want ECJ oversight of any arrangements, they are absolutely right to insist on this in my opinion, because the UK have shown that they are brutal on immigration, and they have zero goodwill by the way they have approached the issue over the last year.
How much goodwill do the EU have for the way they approached the issue? The idea that non-citizens have more rights than citizens is a non-starter.
If you are a foreigner with permanent resident status , and lost her permanent residence and therefore her right to return.
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
Tough.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
You should if you have been told you do. I thought we were opposed to retrospective legislation in this country.
Where do you get that idea from?
Back in 1962, we ended free migration from the Commonwealth.
Not retrospectively. The UK government is proposing to remove rights from EU27 and UK citizens that they currently enjoy and made life-changing decisions based on.
Actually, yes. People lost the right to migrate here. People here lost the right to bring in spouses and other family members. And no one fought of giving jurisdiction to the Supreme Courts of India and Pakistan.
They never had jurisdiction. But fair enough on the other points. If you think it's OK to take fundamental rights away from people that are specifically enshrined in law and which they have made life changing decisions based on, so be it. We'll have to disagree.
Comments
Update: 2 of them.
And one is calling...
I have not long got back from Stockholm and Copenhagen where rather smart apartments of good quality are fairly ubiquitous.
I think Nick P pointed out the other day, the biggest influence on the attraction of housing is good maintenence, tidiness and good neighbours. Height, not so much.
https://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/16/nsa_violated_surveillance_rules_thousands_of
The EU have a different view on this issue, they think of citizenship as an absolute right, and not a temporary privilege. They want an absolute right to remain for their citizens. As someone who has a vested interest in this (my wife is an EU citizen) I appreciate their position, as should Brits living overseas.
If I reside in a foreign country, I should not expect to have the same rights as the local citizens, unless I become a citizen.
The role of the ECJ would be to interpret European law upon referral from UK courts. Can't see the problem myself.
https://twitter.com/BBCHelenaLee/status/877992233626083328
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/877994663554297856
An absurd position given that most of the immigrants live in the busy cities.
* I have a friend who is a recently qualified doctor, with EU nationality, but resident in Britain 17 years. If she works overseas for a year (quite common for junior doctors wanting wider experience and research) then she would lose her right to return.
"EU Migrants"
"British Expats"
Only Jonny Foreigners can be migrants.
The long she stays the more she damages the Tory party and ensures Corbyn becomes PM.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4628592/Ascot-racegoers-abandon-demure-style-Ladies-Day.html
Hospitals are some of the most multicultural places to work, even in places like Cornwall or Cumbria.
NEW THREAD
Back in 1962, we ended free migration from the Commonwealth.
More seriously: it's pretty uniusual for the LOTO to be ahead on this mesasure, because it's always easier to visualise the PM as PM.
Is there a VI?
Another issue though is cost, I looked in to it and I think we are looking at around £2k to obtain citizenship, plus surrendering my wifes passport for 6 months plus while they process the application. Why should we have to pay that amount of money and go through all that hassle just to secure the same rights that we had pre Brexit?
Unlike you I think this is up to the Danes even though they keep changing the rules every year or so