politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Life comes at you fast these days doesn’t it Mrs May?
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Good luck with that.blueblue said:
If it's a choice between a soft Brexit and letting Corbyn in, I'd hope that all but the maddest Tories manage to hold their tongues...SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have seen that. It's a very big opportunity for a clever Tory party. A soft Brexit would win them back a lot of support, I'd guess. Not sure the Tories are all that clever though. Too many anti-EU zealots in too many important places - and a PM who dare not cross the right wing press.Scott_P said:
They are pitching no single market, and it is already pissing off Labour MPs (and causing some angst on Twitter)SouthamObserver said:They lost the election. Neither Corbyn nor McDonnell will ever support a no deal Brexit or a Tory hard Brexit. It would kill them off inside Labour.
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I was thinking about this. I suspect people are thinking, what's the point of a nationalist party that doesn't deliver independence? Around 2014 there was the prospect of getting independence and immediately afterwards, there was the idea of keeping the momentum going. However once that prospect recedes there isn't anything to motivate you. The problem for the SNP is not that people are thinking independence is a bad idea. They are thinking it's not going to happen. So then you start shopping around and there isn't any compelling other reason to vote SNP. Pointing to a lacklustre ten year record in office doesn't help them. If you want a change, more competition or new ideas, you need to vote for someone else.Scott_P said:I wonder if Nicola will be out before May...
@Ben_Wray1989: Curtice: "90% of yes voters in the 2014 referendum voted SNP in the 2015 General Election - only 75% of yes voters backed SNP in #GE2017."0 -
May thought exactly the same just seven weeks ago. Events, dear boy, events.Pulpstar said:
Corbyn is on 45% with Survation, with May on 39%. I expect the Yougov will show similiarly.rcs1000 said:
Beware of extrapolating from small datasets.TheScreamingEagles said:
He is ahead, and would win
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If you wanted a scheme that would improve transport in the North you should have been pushing for better cross country links between the north east and north west, not just another way to suck more money into London.ManchesterKurt said:
Is Crossrail a vanity project?Richard_Tyndall said:
Save billions not yet spent on a vanity project.ManchesterKurt said:
Suggest you go back and re-read what HS2 is doing and why.foxinsoxuk said:
The HS2 problem is that it is not green, and does not interconnect. It is an airline competitor, when what we really need is improved capacity on intercity and commuter lines.Richard_Tyndall said:What is the current estimated cost of HS2. I wonder how many years of dementia care or bursaries that could help support. Damn sure it would be a useful amount of money to use for transitional arrangements to move to better systems.
Who wants to go just from city centre to city centre, then change onto the overcrowded cattle trucks to get home, or to the meeting?
After nearly 8 years, remind me what the better alternative is to increase the track capacity on the WCML, ECML and MML?
oh, and the billions of £ of contracts for Phase 1 are signed, sealed and being delivered.
Cancel them, get nothing, but waste billions?
Or are schemes to improve transport in northern cities the only vanity projects?
A major study was done on the effects of the TGV system on French cities in 2007 which found that rather than causing growth in the outlying regions of France it actually sucked yet more business into Paris and caused even more centralisation. Overall there was no appreciable growth in many of the cities as a result of the connection to the TGV system.
I am not opposed to infrastructure projects. I am opposed to those which will do little or nothing to stimulate growth outside London.0 -
Corbyn before election called != Corbyn after election campaign. That's why the wished-for "keep Corbyn out" vote won't materialise. He looks like PM material now.
The best the Tories can hope for is to appoint PM material as leader (I don't see any serious contenders) and then to duke it out with Labour on policy. The personality card has been played and it backfired massively.0 -
I think if the Tories want to slow Labour's momentum they need to do the following things:Bobajob_PB said:Excellent post.
The final point is perhaps the strongest one. It will be interesting to see where the polls go now Corbyn is openly floating the idea of his becoming PM in short order. I dunno where they will go. But the Tories just look broken, and utterly exhausted.
- Softer Brexit
- Cancel DUP deal
- Get RID of May. There's no way in hell the Tories can make ground with lost voters with her at the helm. She is permanently damaged, a total and utter walking disaster, who is politically tone deaf and has no self-awareness.
- Get someone half decent in who can explain Conservative policy and vision clearly and confidently, who is comfortable with communicating voters and who is self-aware.
- Focus more on conveying a positive vision for the country and addressing voters' concerns and less on personal attacks on Corbyn.
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More people voted Labour in 1951 than in 1945. Labour was more popular in 1951 when it lost than in 1945 when it won. Thats the system we have.foxinsoxuk said:
Attlee lost the 1951 election because the electorate had had enough of austerity.TheScreamingEagles said:
Out of curiosity, how many seats Attlee won, compared to Corbyn?volcanopete said:All in all a great victory for Jeremy Corbyn on a par with Attlee in performance.The nation is in static paralysis and impatiently waits for Mr Corbyn to take over.
People get fed up of it after a while.
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What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
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Since I am not a Tory I am very happy to say that I would rather see Corbyn in than Brexit abandoned. Corbyn can be got rid of at the next election. The EU cannot. Besides, people need a bout of good old fashioned Socialism to inoculate them against it for another 40 years.dixiedean said:
Good luck with that.blueblue said:
If it's a choice between a soft Brexit and letting Corbyn in, I'd hope that all but the maddest Tories manage to hold their tongues...SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have seen that. It's a very big opportunity for a clever Tory party. A soft Brexit would win them back a lot of support, I'd guess. Not sure the Tories are all that clever though. Too many anti-EU zealots in too many important places - and a PM who dare not cross the right wing press.Scott_P said:
They are pitching no single market, and it is already pissing off Labour MPs (and causing some angst on Twitter)SouthamObserver said:They lost the election. Neither Corbyn nor McDonnell will ever support a no deal Brexit or a Tory hard Brexit. It would kill them off inside Labour.
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She was sitting on a majority before she decided to "crush the saboteurs". Unfortunately, she chose to piss that away.blueblue said:
Why the f*** didn't she tear it up BEFORE it was released? She'd be sitting on a solid majority, queen of the world .... aaaarrrrgghhhh!Tykejohnno said:
Well she needs people in there who live in the real world for the next Tory manifesto.Scott_P said:0 -
The good old FTPA means the Tories can govern (albeit ineffectually) for as much of the next 5 years as they like, even on their fairly rubbish numbers. 10 DUP + Sylvia Hermon will never no confidence them if it means letting Corbyn in.
The Tories' strategy of last resort - waiting for Corbyn to die of old age...
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Definitely one strategy, but a bit risky to get rid of a party leader after just having 'won' an election.The_Apocalypse said:
I think if the Tories want to slow Labour's momentum they need to do several of the following:Bobajob_PB said:Excellent post.
The final point is perhaps the strongest one. It will be interesting to see where the polls go now Corbyn is openly floating the idea of his becoming PM in short order. I dunno where they will go. But the Tories just look broken, and utterly exhausted.
- Softer Brexit
- Cancel DUP deal
- Get RID of May. There's no way in hell the Tories can make ground with lost voters with her at the helm. She is permanently damaged, a total and utter walking disaster, who is politically tone deaf and has no self-awareness.
- Get someone half decent in who can explain Conservative policy and vision clearly and confidently, who is comfortable with communicating voters and who is self-aware.
- Focus more on conveying a positive vision for the country and addressing voters' concerns and less on personal attacks on Corbyn.
But the other is to actually get on with governing. Show themselves as the party of doing and (especially) Brexiting rather than simply protesting, and they might last longer than you think.
Given neither the DUP nor the SNP want an election in the near future, longer than you think might be a long time indeed.0 -
Very entertaining. I met Nigel Evans some years ago on a train when he was rent-a-gob. At that time he wasn't particularly likeable. Since he came out and had those problems with the men in blue he's mellowed and now seems more articulate and genuineGIN1138 said:
I said the same on day one. It was terrible.Tykejohnno said:
Did you see Nigel Evans rant about it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlWBrBK9bsA0 -
Isn't this like asking, what's your favourite STD?Richard_Tyndall said:
Since I am not a Tory I am very happy to say that I would rather see Corbyn in than Brexit abandoned. Corbyn can be got rid of at the next election. The EU cannot. Besides, people need a bout of good old fashioned Socialism to inoculate them against it for another 40 years.dixiedean said:
Good luck with that.blueblue said:
If it's a choice between a soft Brexit and letting Corbyn in, I'd hope that all but the maddest Tories manage to hold their tongues...SouthamObserver said:
Yep - I have seen that. It's a very big opportunity for a clever Tory party. A soft Brexit would win them back a lot of support, I'd guess. Not sure the Tories are all that clever though. Too many anti-EU zealots in too many important places - and a PM who dare not cross the right wing press.Scott_P said:
They are pitching no single market, and it is already pissing off Labour MPs (and causing some angst on Twitter)SouthamObserver said:They lost the election. Neither Corbyn nor McDonnell will ever support a no deal Brexit or a Tory hard Brexit. It would kill them off inside Labour.
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Nothing against free speech but Osborne has proved he is not a gentleman, bad mouthing his own side.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
Perhaps the Tories should get rid of tuition fees.The_Apocalypse said:
I think if the Tories want to slow Labour's momentum they need to do the following things:Bobajob_PB said:Excellent post.
The final point is perhaps the strongest one. It will be interesting to see where the polls go now Corbyn is openly floating the idea of his becoming PM in short order. I dunno where they will go. But the Tories just look broken, and utterly exhausted.
- Softer Brexit
- Cancel DUP deal
- Get RID of May. There's no way in hell the Tories can make ground with lost voters with her at the helm. She is permanently damaged, a total and utter walking disaster, who is politically tone deaf and has no self-awareness.
- Get someone half decent in who can explain Conservative policy and vision clearly and confidently, who is comfortable with communicating voters and who is self-aware.
- Focus more on conveying a positive vision for the country and addressing voters' concerns and less on personal attacks on Corbyn.0 -
If only you'd gone for a drink with Nick Timothy 5 weeks ago...The_Apocalypse said:
I think if the Tories want to slow Labour's momentum they need to do the following things:Bobajob_PB said:Excellent post.
The final point is perhaps the strongest one. It will be interesting to see where the polls go now Corbyn is openly floating the idea of his becoming PM in short order. I dunno where they will go. But the Tories just look broken, and utterly exhausted.
- Softer Brexit
- Cancel DUP deal
- Get RID of May. There's no way in hell the Tories can make ground with lost voters with her at the helm. She is permanently damaged, a total and utter walking disaster, who is politically tone deaf and has no self-awareness.
- Get someone half decent in who can explain Conservative policy and vision clearly and confidently, who is comfortable with communicating voters and who is self-aware.
- Focus more on conveying a positive vision for the country and addressing voters' concerns and less on personal attacks on Corbyn.0 -
*Trigger warning*
From that Bloomberg article
Some of Theresa May’s most senior ministers are plotting to soften her plans for a hard Brexit, even suggesting the U.K. could stay in Europe’s single market and customs union, as the prime minister fights to stay in power.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-11/may-s-ministers-plot-softer-brexit-to-keep-u-k-in-single-market0 -
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
Calm down. I think Nadine's simply exercising her right as an Englishwoman to say what she feels!TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
He looks like and sounds a cult leader, but for whatever reason, 40% of the voters didn't mind. But as others have said, how many people who voted actually thought he would get that close in reality? As SO kept trolling 'Labour can't win, so it's safe to vote for Corbyn' - it almost worked.atia2 said:Corbyn before election called != Corbyn after election campaign. That's why the wished-for "keep Corbyn out" vote won't materialise. He looks like PM material now.
The best the Tories can hope for is to appoint PM material as leader (I don't see any serious contenders) and then to duke it out with Labour on policy. The personality card has been played and it backfired massively.
A decent Queen's speech and following budget could turn this mess around for the Tories as quicky as it enveloped them.0 -
Your complaints would carry more weight if you had criticised Nadine Dorries for describing Dave and George as 'arrogant posh boys'perdix said:
Nothing against free speech but Osborne has proved he is not a gentleman, bad mouthing his own side.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
Just as Callaghan was ahead in 1979 just after Thatcher's election in 1979........and Foot was ahead in 1980, and Kinnock was ahead after the 1983 election, and again after Major became prime minister....Jason said:
May thought exactly the same just seven weeks ago. Events, dear boy, events.Pulpstar said:
Corbyn is on 45% with Survation, with May on 39%. I expect the Yougov will show similiarly.rcs1000 said:
Beware of extrapolating from small datasets.TheScreamingEagles said:
He is ahead, and would win0 -
She's a hypocrite.bookseller said:
Calm down. I think Nadine's simply exercising her right as an Englishwoman to say what she feels!TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
Yes. Used to be a great read. As a Lefty I really enjoyed it. Variety of views. Always well argued, even if you didn't agree. (Like PB on a good day!). Plus it was the best for Sport on Monday. It is now a total irrelevance barking at the moon for lost Thatcherism behind an exclusive paywall.The_Apocalypse said:
If there's one thing (with the exception of that LVT....silly mistake I made there) that I've learned over the last seven years, it's to not pay attention to the Telegraph. They've totally lost the plot ever since the Conservatives decided to go into coalition with the Liberal Democrats.rottenborough said:0 -
He is free to say exactly what he likes and we are free to point out he is a twat. Mind you he is a twat even if he doesn't say what he likes.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
People get fed up with austerity so they vote in socialists. The socialists virtually bankrupt the country necessitating another round of austerityfoxinsoxuk said:
Attlee lost the 1951 election because the electorate had had enough of austerity.TheScreamingEagles said:
Out of curiosity, how many seats Attlee won, compared to Corbyn?volcanopete said:All in all a great victory for Jeremy Corbyn on a par with Attlee in performance.The nation is in static paralysis and impatiently waits for Mr Corbyn to take over.
People get fed up of it after a while.0 -
Apart from the Brexit referendum fiasco (I know ... did you enjoy the play?) I have more time for Cameron and Osborne than May. However, simply on the facts, they are arrogant posh boys?TheScreamingEagles said:
Your complaints would carry more weight if you had criticised Nadine Dorries for describing Dave and George as 'arrogant posh boys'perdix said:
Nothing against free speech but Osborne has proved he is not a gentleman, bad mouthing his own side.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
@nigel4england has emailed me to ask why he is banned. Apparently Mike emailed him saying he was welcome backTheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
The customs union is what keeps our industry afloatRichard_Tyndall said:The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.
Leaving it would be lunacy
https://twitter.com/alastair_hart/status/8739927755278049280 -
No it isn't. As usual you are talking bollocks. Your quote refers to the Single Market not the Customs Union. Everything in that quote could happen if we were outside the Customs Union as long as we remained in the Single MarketScott_P said:
The customs union is what keeps our industry afloatRichard_Tyndall said:The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.
Leaving it would be lunacy
https://twitter.com/alastair_hart/status/8739927755278049280 -
It's not funny when there is a chance of Marxists in Downing Street.Mortimer said:Can I just say that the post election analysis on here is second to none. So much better than the pre election tensions. Thanks to all involved, and especially OGH, OGH Jnr and TSE.
Oh, and the jokes are funnier too.
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The reaction of Harry Worcester, the Marquess of Worcester, to the election 'All young people must be shot.'
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/atticus-p8c75v8xf6z0 -
Well they didn't 'win' the election, that's the point of why May is so damaged. No one won the election.Mortimer said:
Definitely one strategy, but a bit risky to get rid of a party leader after just having 'won' an election.The_Apocalypse said:
I think if the Tories want to slow Labour's momentum they need to do several of the following:Bobajob_PB said:Excellent post.
The final point is perhaps the strongest one. It will be interesting to see where the polls go now Corbyn is openly floating the idea of his becoming PM in short order. I dunno where they will go. But the Tories just look broken, and utterly exhausted.
- Softer Brexit
- Cancel DUP deal
- Get RID of May. There's no way in hell the Tories can make ground with lost voters with her at the helm. She is permanently damaged, a total and utter walking disaster, who is politically tone deaf and has no self-awareness.
- Get someone half decent in who can explain Conservative policy and vision clearly and confidently, who is comfortable with communicating voters and who is self-aware.
- Focus more on conveying a positive vision for the country and addressing voters' concerns and less on personal attacks on Corbyn.
But the other is to actually get on with governing. Show themselves as the party of doing and (especially) Brexiting rather than simply protesting, and they might last longer than you think.
Given neither the DUP nor the SNP want an election in the near future, longer than you think might be a long time indeed.
Actually governing is difficult when you have 318 MPs and are only interested in talking with the DUP to prop your government up in an unstable confidence and supply agreement rather than engaging with other political parties. If May reached out to Labour, LDs, and other parties the Tories could come out of it well and be seen to working in the national interest. As it is she seeking to have the government propped up by a party that has social views that are a mile away from wider society.
Furthermore, as noted this weekend by @foxinsoxuk May does not have the skills to be able to do the kind of things to maintain a stable government at this time - mainly, being a good a horse-trading and negotiating. She has shown herself over her premiership to be a woman who isn't interested in a collegiate approach of listening to others but has instead relied on a small cabal of advisors.
DUP nor the SNP not wanting an election just means longer period of political turmoil for the Tories if things do not change.0 -
The older skew seems intuitively right. The LibDems are - rightly or wrongly - hated by swathes of young people because of tuition fees.Recidivist said:
Eastbourne's reputation for old people is a bit out of date. I think the result there was much more about a very hard working local candidate.foxinsoxuk said:
I hadn't spotted that as a particular feature. Are all the LD seats in areas with older than average populations? It would make sense of where they won, and where they lost to Labour.MaxPB said:
The Tories lost too many of those seats due to the dementia tax policy. OxWAb, Bath, Twickenham and Eastbourne all have high value property anda fairly large number of older voters.rcs1000 said:
Sure.another_richard said:
Although Southport showed that when an LibDem retires they struggle to hold the seat.rcs1000 said:
They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.dr_spyn said:LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.
While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
Which means they'll now have problems getting back Ceredigion, Leeds NW and Hallam and also suggests that we need to keep a track of how old the LibDem MPs are.
But the seats they gained this time were all ex-LD seats - Edinburgh West, OxWAb, Bath, CS&ER, Twickenham, Kingston, Eastbourne. And of those, the first four were all with new candidates.
Frankly, the LDs need a new leader and a bit of luck. If they get that, they can be back at 20-odd seats next time around.
OxWAB was a strongly Remain area, lots of politically active (but unable to vote) non-British Europeans who got involved, all co-ordinated by a well-oiled local organisation still in place from the Evan Harris days. There were noticeably less Conservative posters around - and don't forget *that* visit by Theresa May early in the campaign.0 -
You were singing the praises of Norway earlier, outside the customs unionRichard_Tyndall said:No it isn't. As usual you are talking bollocks.
How many cars do they manufacture?
Oh
As usual you are talking bollocks.0 -
Possibly. But your argument was one of free speech...TheScreamingEagles said:
She's a hypocrite.bookseller said:
Calm down. I think Nadine's simply exercising her right as an Englishwoman to say what she feels!TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?0 -
Tbh, if the final Brexit deal was that, I wouldn't be complaining.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
A good post but I don't agree with it. I'm pretty convinced that if Corbyn stood a chance of winning a lot less people would have voted for him. This was proved by the leadership polls which hardly shifted throughout the campaign.Bobajob_PB said:
Excellent post.The_Apocalypse said:
That reading was floated by Matthew Parris on Newsnight, and I think that analysis doesn't work for several reasons:rottenborough said:
I think large numbers voted Labour because they were convinced that Corbyn wouldn't become PM, because the rest of the country was planning to vote Tory in a landslide.ReggieCide said:
calmer heads not much in evidence at the momentSouthamObserver said:
Yep, I am detecting a fair bit of hubris. Hopefully, once the initial euphoria of defying expectations has settled down and everyone has had some sleep, calmer heads will prevail. We'll see.stevef said:I think Labour is sowing the seeds for its own possible downfall whenever the next election comes through its own hubris which it has been demonstrating since Thursday. Its been talking as if it won the general election (recall the groan on Question Time this week), and turning Corbyn into a saint, and hero when probably many people voted Labour despite not because of Corbyn.
This was a dangerous mistake.
Will they make it again?
- Corbyn actually became MORE popular over the course of the campaign, with the ratings rising (are continuing to rise) as May's crashed. If voters were voting for Labour despite Corbyn, this wouldn't have happened.
- It was made clear by certain polls/models publicised by the press that the Tories were unlikely to win a landslide (due to narrowing lead), and I think polling over the course of the campaign showed the public were becoming less confident in the Tories winning a large majority.
- In the recent Survation poll - post-election - Labour have taken a 6% lead. If voters, having seen the result voted Labour because they were convinced that Corbyn wasn't going to become PM, they wouldn't still be sticking with Labour.
The final point is perhaps the strongest one. It will be interesting to see where the polls go now Corbyn is openly floating the idea of his becoming PM in short order. I dunno where they will go. But the Tories just look broken, and utterly exhausted.
Towards the end people had become really pissed off with May and decided a vote for Corbyn was a hit to nothing. Why his support has surged since is merely down to momentum and success breeding success.
People who only saw an anti May candidate took a second look and quite liked what they saw..0 -
Not a very accurate history!perdix said:
People get fed up with austerity so they vote in socialists. The socialists virtually bankrupt the country necessitating another round of austerityfoxinsoxuk said:
Attlee lost the 1951 election because the electorate had had enough of austerity.TheScreamingEagles said:
Out of curiosity, how many seats Attlee won, compared to Corbyn?volcanopete said:All in all a great victory for Jeremy Corbyn on a par with Attlee in performance.The nation is in static paralysis and impatiently waits for Mr Corbyn to take over.
People get fed up of it after a while.
Lab lost in 1951 because of continuing austerity, and both of Wilsons victories as well as Blairs took place at times of economic growth.0 -
It doesn't matter. Nothing on that list in that quote would be prevented by us being outside the Customs Union. As long as we remain in the Single Market. Stop making a twat of yourself and learn some facts.Scott_P said:
You were singing the praises of Norway earlier, outside the customs unionRichard_Tyndall said:No it isn't. As usual you are talking bollocks.
How many cars do they manufacture?
Oh
As usual you are talking bollocks.0 -
What on Earth did you think a PM was, if not a cult leader? :-)Jason said:
He looks like and sounds a cult leader, but for whatever reason, 40% of the voters didn't mind. But as others have said, how many people who voted actually thought he would get that close in reality? As SO kept trolling 'Labour can't win, so it's safe to vote for Corbyn' - it almost worked.atia2 said:Corbyn before election called != Corbyn after election campaign. That's why the wished-for "keep Corbyn out" vote won't materialise. He looks like PM material now.
The best the Tories can hope for is to appoint PM material as leader (I don't see any serious contenders) and then to duke it out with Labour on policy. The personality card has been played and it backfired massively.
Anecdotally, I must have door-stepped around 500 people during the campaign (Brentford & Isleworth). The idea that Corbyn was safe to vote for because he couldn't win never came up. I think seasoned nerds like us tend to forget that the vast majority of people have no idea what the polls, forecasts, odds, markets, etc. are saying. They voted seeing no reason why Corbyn couldn't win. Indeed, May even told them that he could be PM if only she lost 6 seats. To the ordinary punter, that possibility wouldn't have sounded anywhere near as outlandish as it sounded here.
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Soft Brexit makes rejoining in a decade or so, so much easier :-)The_Apocalypse said:
Tbh, if the final Brexit deal was that, I wouldn't be complaining.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
I think you're ignoring the possibility that she's just too thick to realise it's a metaphor.TheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?
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So if that were the approach, we'd be better off not Brexiting?Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
We repeat ourselves. Being in a customs union with the EU is suboptimal but on balance and by a big margin is better than incurring the costs of not having a free flow of goods with our main market and as a consequence seeing a big fall in trade. We rejected our by far best option of being a member of the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
Yep. It's a shame because in 2009 they had been behind a great piece of investigative journalism in revealing the MPs' expenses scandal.dixiedean said:
Yes. Used to be a great read. As a Lefty I really enjoyed it. Variety of views. Always well argued, even if you didn't agree. (Like PB on a good day!). Plus it was the best for Sport on Monday. It is now a total irrelevance barking at the moon for lost Thatcherism behind an exclusive paywall.The_Apocalypse said:
If there's one thing (with the exception of that LVT....silly mistake I made there) that I've learned over the last seven years, it's to not pay attention to the Telegraph. They've totally lost the plot ever since the Conservatives decided to go into coalition with the Liberal Democrats.rottenborough said:
For the last two years especially The Telegraph has been particularly unreadable.0 -
And many voted Tory because they thought TM would provide good government.How is that going?rottenborough said:
I think large numbers voted Labour because they were convinced that Corbyn wouldn't become PM, because the rest of the country was planning to vote Tory in a landslide.ReggieCide said:
calmer heads not much in evidence at the momentSouthamObserver said:
Yep, I am detecting a fair bit of hubris. Hopefully, once the initial euphoria of defying expectations has settled down and everyone has had some sleep, calmer heads will prevail. We'll see.stevef said:I think Labour is sowing the seeds for its own possible downfall whenever the next election comes through its own hubris which it has been demonstrating since Thursday. Its been talking as if it won the general election (recall the groan on Question Time this week), and turning Corbyn into a saint, and hero when probably many people voted Labour despite not because of Corbyn.
This was a dangerous mistake.
Will they make it again?0 -
All is not well in the SNP party at the top.FF43 said:
I was thinking about this. I suspect people are thinking, what's the point of a nationalist party that doesn't deliver independence? Around 2014 there was the prospect of getting independence and immediately afterwards, there was the idea of keeping the momentum going. However once that prospect recedes there isn't anything to motivate you. The problem for the SNP is not that people are thinking independence is a bad idea. They are thinking it's not going to happen. So then you start shopping around and there isn't any compelling other reason to vote SNP. Pointing to a lacklustre ten year record in office doesn't help them. If you want a change, more competition or new ideas, you need to vote for someone else.Scott_P said:I wonder if Nicola will be out before May...
@Ben_Wray1989: Curtice: "90% of yes voters in the 2014 referendum voted SNP in the 2015 General Election - only 75% of yes voters backed SNP in #GE2017."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-402385010 -
He shouldn't be. Let me check.isam said:
@nigel4england has emailed me to ask why he is banned. Apparently Mike emailed him saying he was welcome backTheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?
Edit - He should be free to post now, the right unban button wasn't pressed by the looks of it.0 -
Nope because we would still be rid of all the additional Brussels bullshit. The Single Market rules make only a small amount of the total legislative burden from the EU.williamglenn said:
So if that were the approach, we'd be better off not Brexiting?Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
But staying in the Customs Union would take away an important part of our ability to grow as part of the world economy. We would still be held back by having our trade controlled by the EU. It is dumb.0 -
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.0 -
But car manufacturing would be decimated, which is where I started.Richard_Tyndall said:Nothing on that list in that quote would be prevented by us being outside the Customs Union.
Stop making a twat of yourself and learn some facts.0 -
Only three Labour leaders in 100 years have succeeded in overthrowing a Tory government with a majority -Blair, Wilson and Attlee, only two if you consider that Wilson's victory in 1964 was by the skin of the teeth. All the others have been ahead in the polls -some of them hugely, but when people actually went into the polling booths, they decided not to elect them. Corbyn is not a Blair, Wilson or Attlee -and Attlee had already been deputy to Churchill through the World War and was hugely popular. Corbyn is no Attlee.atia2 said:
What on Earth did you think a PM was, if not a cult leader? :-)Jason said:
He looks like and sounds a cult leader, but for whatever reason, 40% of the voters didn't mind. But as others have said, how many people who voted actually thought he would get that close in reality? As SO kept trolling 'Labour can't win, so it's safe to vote for Corbyn' - it almost worked.atia2 said:Corbyn before election called != Corbyn after election campaign. That's why the wished-for "keep Corbyn out" vote won't materialise. He looks like PM material now.
The best the Tories can hope for is to appoint PM material as leader (I don't see any serious contenders) and then to duke it out with Labour on policy. The personality card has been played and it backfired massively.
Anecdotally, I must have door-stepped around 500 people during the campaign (Brentford & Isleworth). The idea that Corbyn was safe to vote for because he couldn't win never came up. I think seasoned nerds like us tend to forget that the vast majority of people have no idea what the polls, forecasts, odds, markets, etc. are saying. They voted seeing no reason why Corbyn couldn't win. Indeed, May even told them that he could be PM if only she lost 6 seats. To the ordinary punter, that possibility wouldn't have sounded anywhere near as outlandish as it sounded here.
0 -
The average Leave voter didn't give a damn about trade deals IMO (whereas they very much did care about immigration).Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope because we would still be rid of all the additional Brussels bullshit. The Single Market rules make only a small amount of the total legislative burden from the EU.williamglenn said:
So if that were the approach, we'd be better off not Brexiting?Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
But staying in the Customs Union would take away an important part of our ability to grow as part of the world economy. We would still be held back by having our trade controlled by the EU. It is dumb.
Leaving the Single Market, but staying in the Customs Union, seems a sensible way forward to me, which would deliver on what the country thought they voted for.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
He shouldn't be. Let me check.isam said:
@nigel4england has emailed me to ask why he is banned. Apparently Mike emailed him saying he was welcome backTheScreamingEagles said:
What a snowflake!Tykejohnno said:
It's political correctness gone mad that an Englishman can't say what he feels.
Whatever happened to free speech?
Edit - He should be free to post now, the right unban button wasn't pressed by the looks of it.
0 -
It could probably all happen in the US too. They could buy kit from a German manufacturer, made in Poland, and fly someone out to fix it too.Richard_Tyndall said:
No it isn't. As usual you are talking bollocks. Your quote refers to the Single Market not the Customs Union. Everything in that quote could happen if we were outside the Customs Union as long as we remained in the Single MarketScott_P said:
The customs union is what keeps our industry afloatRichard_Tyndall said:The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.
Leaving it would be lunacy
https://twitter.com/alastair_hart/status/8739927755278049280 -
We would still have the free flow of goods as part of the Single Market just as the non EU, EEA members do. It is not necessary to be part of the Customs Union for that - as Scott 'n' Paste's quote makes very clear even if he singularly fails to understand it.FF43 said:
We repeat ourselves. Being in a customs union with the EU is suboptimal but on balance and by a big margin is better than incurring the costs of not having a free flow of goods with our main market and as a consequence seeing a big fall in trade. We rejected our by far best option of being a member of the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.0 -
Because of events over here, we've forgotten the poop performance over the pond
https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/status/8739139661075333130 -
Norway, population how many again?Scott_P said:
You were singing the praises of Norway earlier, outside the customs unionRichard_Tyndall said:No it isn't. As usual you are talking bollocks.
How many cars do they manufacture?
Oh
As usual you are talking bollocks.
You could equally point to large chunks of the UK with similar sized population that... ooohhh.. don't make cars either.0 -
They couldn't manufacture parts for a French customer to fit to an Italian aircraft with no permits, restrictions or bureaucracy in the USrcs1000 said:It could probably all happen in the US too. They could buy kit from a German manufacturer, made in Poland, and fly someone out to fix it too.
We can do it in the customs union0 -
Then you lose your ability to trade freely with the EU (by being outside the Single Market) and your ability to make your own trade deals outside the EU (by being inside the Customs Union). That really will kill the economy.Danny565 said:
The average Leave voter didn't give a damn about trade deals IMO (whereas they very much did care about immigration).Richard_Tyndall said:
Nope because we would still be rid of all the additional Brussels bullshit. The Single Market rules make only a small amount of the total legislative burden from the EU.williamglenn said:
So if that were the approach, we'd be better off not Brexiting?Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
But staying in the Customs Union would take away an important part of our ability to grow as part of the world economy. We would still be held back by having our trade controlled by the EU. It is dumb.
Leaving the Single Market, but staying in the Customs Union, seems a sensible way forward to me, which would deliver on what the country thought they voted for.
0 -
The chances of the EU agreeing that as temporary arrangement are very low, I think. They wouldn't go through the two year treaty process only to drag out the uncertainty. The reason for them accepting us into the EEA, at least, and possibly also into a customs union, is that it derisks Brexit for them. If it doesn't do that, they wouldn't be interested.rcs1000 said:
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.0 -
-
Richard_Tyndall said:
We would still have the free flow of goods as part of the Single Market just as the non EU, EEA members do. It is not necessary to be part of the Customs Union for that - as Scott 'n' Paste's quote makes very clear even if he singularly fails to understand it.FF43 said:
We repeat ourselves. Being in a customs union with the EU is suboptimal but on balance and by a big margin is better than incurring the costs of not having a free flow of goods with our main market and as a consequence seeing a big fall in trade. We rejected our by far best option of being a member of the EU.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
I'm a Brexiteer, but let's not pretend leaving the Customs Union is cost free. Some Norwegian firms actually chose to pay tariffs on goods that are technically exempt under EFTA because that process is quicker than having to prove that they are exempt under rules of origin.
0 -
And some of those places don't have long International manufacturing supply chains either.rcs1000 said:Norway, population how many again?
You could equally point to large chunks of the UK with similar sized population that... ooohhh.. don't make cars either.
Which kind of proves my point0 -
Doesn't work Scott. You are the one who clearly doesn't understand the basic institutions and how they work which is why I am having to try and educate you. You have produced no 'facts' and just one cut and paste which you so completely misunderstood that in fact it undermines your whole argument. That really is dumb.Scott_P said:
But car manufacturing would be decimated, which is where I started.Richard_Tyndall said:Nothing on that list in that quote would be prevented by us being outside the Customs Union.
Stop making a twat of yourself and learn some facts.0 -
Every day Trump is more and more of a disaster.TheScreamingEagles said:Because of events over here, we've forgotten the poop performance over the pond
https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/status/873913966107533313
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/poll-americans-trust-james-comey-over-trump_us_593c4814e4b0b13f2c6b1b690 -
If you want a time limited treaty then you need to have a solution in place for Northern Ireland before you start, otherwise you'd risk timing out into something that was unacceptable. So is your solution special status for NI in the EU?rcs1000 said:
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.0 -
nunu said:
"That's right I must have answered about 12 emails asking me to volunteer to phone, each time I said yes and each time they never got back to me. Also know that my children 20-28, were getting loads of facebook messages from labour. Every time I said something they would have an answer from the propaganda they were being fed. We were hopeless and complacent, made us look arrogant." From Conhome.
0 -
I'm sorry but I think that's tosh.FF43 said:
The chances of the EU agreeing that as temporary arrangement are very low, I think. They wouldn't go through the two year treaty process only to drag out the uncertainty. The reason for them accepting us into the EEA, at least, and possibly also into a customs union, is that it derisks Brexit for them. If it doesn't do that, they wouldn't be interested.rcs1000 said:
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.
The EU would be spared the hard choice of working out how to make up for our lost cash, as we'd still be paying in the near term.
They would also be able to have the hope that - five years in - we came back snivelling saying "oh, thinking about it, leaving is much harder than we thought it would be".
It also minimises the economic disruption to a bunch of countries that have only recently left a near decade long economic stagnation. (And don't forget, Macron and Merkel are ultimately pragmatists who want to be re-elected. 3% economic growth while we do 3.5% = re-election. -0.5% while we do -2% = booted out by their populations.)0 -
The time limit is only for the customs union.williamglenn said:
If you want a time limited treaty then you need to have a solution in place for Northern Ireland before you start, otherwise you'd risk timing out into something that was unacceptable. So is your solution special status for NI in the EU?rcs1000 said:
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.0 -
You clearly don't understand why the customs union is essential to International manufacturing supply chainsRichard_Tyndall said:You are the one who clearly doesn't understand the basic institutions and how they work which is why I am having to try and educate you.
But I can't understand it for you. You will have to work it out0 -
I do think EEA is possible as a "final settlement". However the EU will stick to the process. It will want its pound of flesh of exit fees and sort out citizen rights. Ireland might depend on whether EEA is agreed. If (and it is IF) the EU agree to EEA for the UK, they will want some commitment to it from the UK government and confidence that it is the final settlement and not just a convenient stop on the UK's journey out of the EU. If the EEA is agreed as the final settlement, the transition is easy to arrange.FF43 said:
The chances of the EU agreeing that as temporary arrangement are very low, I think. They wouldn't go through the two year treaty process only to drag out the uncertainty. The reason for them accepting us into the EEA, at least, and possibly also into a customs union, is that it derisks Brexit for them. If it doesn't do that, they wouldn't be interested.rcs1000 said:
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.
The alternative is a time and scope limited extension of current arrangements without a definite final arrangement in place before the extension runs out. That creates a lot of uncertainty and one thing is sure - we won't be ready to leave in two years' time.
In summary EEA is an expensive and unsatisfactory replacement for EU membership, but it does bring a degree of certainty. I think both sides can live with that, given the alternative.
0 -
They already have that. We're locked into a two year process than can only end in a transition deal where the full acquis would apply.rcs1000 said:
I'm sorry but I think that's tosh.FF43 said:
The chances of the EU agreeing that as temporary arrangement are very low, I think. They wouldn't go through the two year treaty process only to drag out the uncertainty. The reason for them accepting us into the EEA, at least, and possibly also into a customs union, is that it derisks Brexit for them. If it doesn't do that, they wouldn't be interested.rcs1000 said:
I think you can make a case for two years in the customs union (assuming it's a treaty with an explicit two year length). Otherwise we effectively lose all the existing EU arrangements and spend the next few years getting them back again. Simpler to agree 1/1/19 - EFTA/EEA + Customs Union; 1/1/21, exit Customs Unions; 1/6/22 referendum on whether to remain in EFTA/EEA.Richard_Tyndall said:
The Single Market would be good. The Customs Union is lunacy. No independent trade deals, all run by Brussels. It is a lunatic solution.The_Apocalypse said:
A very big deal that Hammond is part of the plot for a Softer Brexit.Scott_P said:
This GE result has been a true blessing.
It would minimise the risk of a sudden 'heart attack' exit, and allow us to make an informed decision after we've already made progress in building our own trade relationships, and once we've already began to pivot.
The EU would be spared the hard choice of working out how to make up for our lost cash, as we'd still be paying in the near term.
They would also be able to have the hope that - five years in - we came back snivelling saying "oh, thinking about it, leaving is much harder than we thought it would be".0 -
Regarding Northern Ireland.
There's a country of considerable wealth and influence that has decided (via referendum) on an open border with the EU. It's not even a member of the EEA.
Let's not conflate issues unnecessarily.0 -
Has anybody been keeping an eye on the swings in Cornwall ? Ed Miliband's good work about organisation is giving fruit.
We are becoming the second party in that county. Soon we will win seats when we start to squeeze the LD votes.0 -
This is what has changed...
18 months ago if you mention politics to a group of under 30's you would get silence and rolling eyes.
On Thursday night INSIDE NIGHTCLUBS there were TV screens showing David Dimbleby and various talking heads dissecting the election results. They stopped the music to play the counts being announced0 -
We can do it in the Single Market without being in the Customs Union.Scott_P said:
They couldn't manufacture parts for a French customer to fit to an Italian aircraft with no permits, restrictions or bureaucracy in the USrcs1000 said:It could probably all happen in the US too. They could buy kit from a German manufacturer, made in Poland, and fly someone out to fix it too.
We can do it in the customs union0 -
-
I am shown three doors...Scott_P said:
You clearly don't understand why the customs union is essential to International manufacturing supply chainsRichard_Tyndall said:You are the one who clearly doesn't understand the basic institutions and how they work which is why I am having to try and educate you.
But I can't understand it for you. You will have to work it out0 -
4 out of 6 second places for Labour.surbiton said:Has anybody been keeping an eye on the swings in Cornwall ? Ed Miliband's good work about organisation is giving fruit.
We are becoming the second party in that county. Soon we will win seats when we start to squeeze the LD votes.
Very impressive to be fair.0 -
Looks like there probably won't be another election for at least a couple of years. Tories from all wings of the party don't want to risk Corbyn and McDonnell getting into office.0
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@carolynquinncq: On @BBCWestminHour @SamCoatesTimes says Conservative MPs have concluded "a bad PM is better than no PM".0
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LOL. I must admit I had forgotten quite how dumb Scott was in spite of everyone trying to help him on that one. I suppose it is mean to pick on him when he is clearly so lacking in basic intelligence.isam said:
I am shown three doors...Scott_P said:
You clearly don't understand why the customs union is essential to International manufacturing supply chainsRichard_Tyndall said:You are the one who clearly doesn't understand the basic institutions and how they work which is why I am having to try and educate you.
But I can't understand it for you. You will have to work it out0 -
Labour has already squeezed most of the LD vote in some of the Cornish seats.surbiton said:Has anybody been keeping an eye on the swings in Cornwall ? Ed Miliband's good work about organisation is giving fruit.
We are becoming the second party in that county. Soon we will win seats when we start to squeeze the LD votes.0 -
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Like many places, Cornwall saw challengers entrenched.surbiton said:Has anybody been keeping an eye on the swings in Cornwall ? Ed Miliband's good work about organisation is giving fruit.
We are becoming the second party in that county. Soon we will win seats when we start to squeeze the LD votes.
So, the Labour Party made progress in SE Cornwall, Cambourne, Truro & Falmouth and Newquay & St Austell. But it went backwards (relative to the LDs) in St Ives and North Cornwall.
Cambourne is a real shot for the Labour Party next time around. But St Ives looks the most likely seat to change hands next time around.
0 -
The collective loss of UK productivity from so many intelligent people wasting time chosing to wrestle with issues like this must be colossal. Just imagine how much better off we'd be if we just accepted that we were an EU member and got on with it.Richard_Tyndall said:
We can do it in the Single Market without being in the Customs Union.Scott_P said:
They couldn't manufacture parts for a French customer to fit to an Italian aircraft with no permits, restrictions or bureaucracy in the USrcs1000 said:It could probably all happen in the US too. They could buy kit from a German manufacturer, made in Poland, and fly someone out to fix it too.
We can do it in the customs union
Hesteltine is right to call it a cancer.0 -
I agree. I think that, although Mrs May is quite possibly replaced in the autumn, we will be the other side of the Brexit negotiations before we go to the polls again.AndyJS said:Looks like there probably won't be another election for at least a couple of years. Tories from all wings of the party don't want to risk Corbyn and McDonnell getting into office.
By May 2019 there is every chance that there is much falling out about what deal we have ended up with and we up with a GE.0 -
That's an embarrassing lack of fact checking.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Sensible - get May to do the dirty work then replace her with someone who might actually win or at least restrict Corbyn to a rainbow coalition.AndyJS said:Looks like there probably won't be another election for at least a couple of years. Tories from all wings of the party don't want to risk Corbyn and McDonnell getting into office.
0 -
There's another mistake in the piece as well.rcs1000 said:
That's an embarrassing lack of fact checking.TheScreamingEagles said:0
This discussion has been closed.