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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Life comes at you fast these days doesn’t it Mrs May?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,260
edited June 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Life comes at you fast these days doesn’t it Mrs May?

For all future party leaders, I have a bit of advice for you, be nice to the people you meet on the way up, because you’ll eventually meet them on the way down, when you need them the most.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • handandmousehandandmouse Posts: 213
    Couldn't happen to a nicer woman.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274
    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971
    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    One wonders what she said to Michael Gove. Obviously either it was less stinging or he is more forgiving.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    Some of the comments on the last thread are absolutely laughable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    edited June 2017
    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    I'm used to it.

    For a year, they kept on telling me I was bitter, that the posh boys were crap and Mrs May was awesome.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    A very nice email from Skybet:

    "We're writing in relation to a bet you placed on our General Election RequestABets market.

    Due to a technical error, the "Conservatives to win 300-349 seats, Labour 200-249 & turnout 65.01% - 70.00%" selection was settled incorrectly as a winner, with Labour actually winning 262 seats.

    Normally in this situation we would resettle your bet with the correct result, however on this occasion we are truly making betting better and allowing your bet to remain settled as a winner!"

    I had a tenner at 14/1.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    You mean my threads weren't a delight to read before June 8th?

    *I retire wounded*
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971

    One wonders what she said to Michael Gove. Obviously either it was less stinging or he is more forgiving.

    Maybe she should do a sorry video like Nick Clegg did over student loans...
    :-)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,726

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    I'm sure it must be a delight. For so many Conservatives, their true enemies reside in their own party.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345

    One wonders what she said to Michael Gove. Obviously either it was less stinging or he is more forgiving.

    Depends if she makes Ben Wallace a minister in Gove's department
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    I think this will all be overtaken by events. The next few weeks will be torrid for her.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Sean_F said:

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    I'm sure it must be a delight. For so many Conservatives, their true enemies reside in their own party.
    Yes. Perhaps they should join Ukip?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    edited June 2017
    She has thrown away 3 years of majority government, and is now unable to choose her advisers, or cabinet. This government will be unable to pass anything in the slightest controversial. Any other PM will be in the same boat. This is the biggest failure in politics I can remember. It is not Osborne, Corbyn, her advisers, the press, or Coco the Clowns fault, but hers alone. She needs to own it, and her former cheerleaders may be wise to reflect on it.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    As someone right leaning, in a best of a bad bunch sort of way, I must say I'm delighted that Labour are now stuck with Corbyn and watching the volte-face movements of the "moderates" is the cherry on top.

    Tories are in the shit no doubt, but Labour has made a catastrophic error with their adoption of hard left policies and persons.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    A very nice email from Skybet:

    "We're writing in relation to a bet you placed on our General Election RequestABets market.

    Due to a technical error, the "Conservatives to win 300-349 seats, Labour 200-249 & turnout 65.01% - 70.00%" selection was settled incorrectly as a winner, with Labour actually winning 262 seats.

    Normally in this situation we would resettle your bet with the correct result, however on this occasion we are truly making betting better and allowing your bet to remain settled as a winner!"

    I had a tenner at 14/1.

    You jammy bastard.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    A very nice email from Skybet:

    "We're writing in relation to a bet you placed on our General Election RequestABets market.

    Due to a technical error, the "Conservatives to win 300-349 seats, Labour 200-249 & turnout 65.01% - 70.00%" selection was settled incorrectly as a winner, with Labour actually winning 262 seats.

    Normally in this situation we would resettle your bet with the correct result, however on this occasion we are truly making betting better and allowing your bet to remain settled as a winner!"

    I had a tenner at 14/1.

    They really don't know what they're doing.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005

    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    I'm used it.

    For a year, they kept on telling me I was bitter, that the posh boys were crap and Mrs May was awesome.
    It's possible that both May and the posh boys are crap, that's certainly a view I subscribe to.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005
    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I wonder if he will change tack a bit? He sure as hell wouldn't want to inadvertently help Corbyn.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Pong said:

    A very nice email from Skybet:

    "We're writing in relation to a bet you placed on our General Election RequestABets market.

    Due to a technical error, the "Conservatives to win 300-349 seats, Labour 200-249 & turnout 65.01% - 70.00%" selection was settled incorrectly as a winner, with Labour actually winning 262 seats.

    Normally in this situation we would resettle your bet with the correct result, however on this occasion we are truly making betting better and allowing your bet to remain settled as a winner!"

    I had a tenner at 14/1.

    They really don't know what they're doing.
    If you get an email like that from a firm, give up!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    It may well suit everyone for her to be the Brexit Prime Minister.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971
    dixiedean said:

    She has thrown away 3 years of majority government, and is now unable to choose her advisers, or cabinet. This government will be unable to pass anything in the slightest controversial. Any other PM will be in the same boat. This is the biggest failure in politics I can remember...

    You clearly didn't live through the 70s... but otherwise, agreed.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    One wonders what she said to Michael Gove. Obviously either it was less stinging or he is more forgiving.

    Or he's more desperate / has less shame?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    I'm used it.

    For a year, they kept on telling me I was bitter, that the posh boys were crap and Mrs May was awesome.
    It's possible that both May and the posh boys are crap, that's certainly a view I subscribe to.
    306 seats
    330 seats
    318 seats

    The market is the truth!

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Thinking about second election betting (StanJames offering roughly 1/3 on no second election this year) - how late in the year do we have to get before there simply isn't time? I guess it depends on how the election is called.

    Vote of no confidence is 5 weeks, right? That's 2 weeks for a second confidence vote not to pass and then 3 weeks for the campaign. But anything else would be slower?

    If the Tories chose to have a second election, might they avoid a winter date? 1974 was Feb and October, but we're already in June. Not long now if we don't want a freezing campaign. On the other hand, MPs may not have that level of control. If the DUP deal collapses it's election right now.

    DYOR, but I don't feel that a second election imminently is likely, even 25% likely (for 1/3 being value on it not happening).The Tories haven't gone for one over the weekend, and they are close enough to 325 that I imagine they'll try to form a minority even if the DUP don't agree. A no confidence vote could be forced, but as some have discussed below no-one bar Labour (and possibly even some of them) want a snap election.
  • mwjfrome17mwjfrome17 Posts: 158
    Is Murdoch still paying Give £150000 a year to pedal his ideas in cabinet?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    I think this will all be overtaken by events. The next few weeks will be torrid for her.
    I suspect if the DUP start playing silly beggars, there'll be enough Tory MPs rebelling to cause the government to lose votes.

    There's some really idiocy coming from the DUP and their supporters.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,755
    glw said:

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    As someone right leaning, in a best of a bad bunch sort of way, I must say I'm delighted that Labour are now stuck with Corbyn and watching the volte-face movements of the "moderates" is the cherry on top.

    Tories are in the shit no doubt, but Labour has made a catastrophic error with their adoption of hard left policies and persons.
    :smile: ... 40% voted for Labour - compared with the 37% who voted for Cameron's majority government in 2015. Some error. The Tories only beat then with 42% share because most of UKIP voted Tory expecting a hard Brexit, which can't be delivered.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,497
    Sean_F said:

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    I'm sure it must be a delight. For so many Conservatives, their true enemies reside in their own party.
    Isn't there a Churchill quote about the House of Commons.....something to the effect that the Opposition is in front of you and the enemy behind?
  • Quite clearly the Conservatives need Osborne running the campaign and Gove figuring out the policies. I can't see either of those tolerating doing that so Boris can be (or stay) PM.

    The hubris from Labour didn't take long to develop; 64 seats off a majority of 1 and they're celebrating victory already!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tlg86 said:

    A very nice email from Skybet:

    "We're writing in relation to a bet you placed on our General Election RequestABets market.

    Due to a technical error, the "Conservatives to win 300-349 seats, Labour 200-249 & turnout 65.01% - 70.00%" selection was settled incorrectly as a winner, with Labour actually winning 262 seats.

    Normally in this situation we would resettle your bet with the correct result, however on this occasion we are truly making betting better and allowing your bet to remain settled as a winner!"

    I had a tenner at 14/1.

    You jammy bastard.
    I hadn't spotted it myself.

    Overall I came out of the night up a couple of hundred. I did a quick reverse ferret on the exit poll on Betfair, and my search for Labour gains made up for other losses.

    If Hammond, or Rudd gets paid out as next PM it would be luvverly.

    I don't have a feel for next Tory leader, so will cash out for the summer.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    She has thrown away 3 years of majority government, and is now unable to choose her advisers, or cabinet. This government will be unable to pass anything in the slightest controversial. Any other PM will be in the same boat. This is the biggest failure in politics I can remember...

    You clearly didn't live through the 70s... but otherwise, agreed.
    Oh yes I did. I remember the 3 day week and power cuts under the Conservatives. Even Ted only threw away a years majority government!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    Personally as long as she gets the Queens Speech through the summer recess will be on us and I would expect she would give notice she will stand down after an Autumn successor election
  • Clown_Car_HQClown_Car_HQ Posts: 169
    Sean_F said:

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    I'm sure it must be a delight. For so many Conservatives, their true enemies reside in their own party.
    I think that's true of all parties.

    There are always people for whom personal vendetta outweighs reason.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    Perhaps time for a May exit date thread.

    The only thing keeping her in office is the understandable reluctance of would be replacement leaders to accept the hospital pass.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    I'm used it.

    For a year, they kept on telling me I was bitter, that the posh boys were crap and Mrs May was awesome.
    It's possible that both May and the posh boys are crap, that's certainly a view I subscribe to.
    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    Listening to Vince Cable today he was surprisingly supportive of May
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Quincel said:

    Thinking about second election betting (StanJames offering roughly 1/3 on no second election this year) - how late in the year do we have to get before there simply isn't time? I guess it depends on how the election is called.

    Vote of no confidence is 5 weeks, right? That's 2 weeks for a second confidence vote not to pass and then 3 weeks for the campaign. But anything else would be slower?

    If the Tories chose to have a second election, might they avoid a winter date? 1974 was Feb and October, but we're already in June. Not long now if we don't want a freezing campaign. On the other hand, MPs may not have that level of control. If the DUP deal collapses it's election right now.

    DYOR, but I don't feel that a second election imminently is likely, even 25% likely (for 1/3 being value on it not happening).The Tories haven't gone for one over the weekend, and they are close enough to 325 that I imagine they'll try to form a minority even if the DUP don't agree. A no confidence vote could be forced, but as some have discussed below no-one bar Labour (and possibly even some of them) want a snap election.

    The SNP would be desperate to avoid one. In the near future they'd be carved apart by tactical voting everywhere. The voters would now know exactly how to oust them.

    The tricky question for them is how to avoid being seen to be propping up Tories.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    She has thrown away 3 years of majority government, and is now unable to choose her advisers, or cabinet. This government will be unable to pass anything in the slightest controversial. Any other PM will be in the same boat. This is the biggest failure in politics I can remember...

    You clearly didn't live through the 70s... but otherwise, agreed.
    They did not throw away 3 years of majority government away in the 1970s.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Quincel said:

    Thinking about second election betting (StanJames offering roughly 1/3 on no second election this year) - how late in the year do we have to get before there simply isn't time? I guess it depends on how the election is called.

    Vote of no confidence is 5 weeks, right? That's 2 weeks for a second confidence vote not to pass and then 3 weeks for the campaign. But anything else would be slower?

    If the Tories chose to have a second election, might they avoid a winter date? 1974 was Feb and October, but we're already in June. Not long now if we don't want a freezing campaign. On the other hand, MPs may not have that level of control. If the DUP deal collapses it's election right now.

    DYOR, but I don't feel that a second election imminently is likely, even 25% likely (for 1/3 being value on it not happening).The Tories haven't gone for one over the weekend, and they are close enough to 325 that I imagine they'll try to form a minority even if the DUP don't agree. A no confidence vote could be forced, but as some have discussed below no-one bar Labour (and possibly even some of them) want a snap election.

    Hah I'm staying out of that market :D
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Pulpstar said:

    Quincel said:

    Thinking about second election betting (StanJames offering roughly 1/3 on no second election this year) - how late in the year do we have to get before there simply isn't time? I guess it depends on how the election is called.

    Vote of no confidence is 5 weeks, right? That's 2 weeks for a second confidence vote not to pass and then 3 weeks for the campaign. But anything else would be slower?

    If the Tories chose to have a second election, might they avoid a winter date? 1974 was Feb and October, but we're already in June. Not long now if we don't want a freezing campaign. On the other hand, MPs may not have that level of control. If the DUP deal collapses it's election right now.

    DYOR, but I don't feel that a second election imminently is likely, even 25% likely (for 1/3 being value on it not happening).The Tories haven't gone for one over the weekend, and they are close enough to 325 that I imagine they'll try to form a minority even if the DUP don't agree. A no confidence vote could be forced, but as some have discussed below no-one bar Labour (and possibly even some of them) want a snap election.

    Hah I'm staying out of that market :D
    I do have a sneaking suspicion I'll check Twitter any minute and find out I've lost.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    I'm used it.

    For a year, they kept on telling me I was bitter, that the posh boys were crap and Mrs May was awesome.
    It's possible that both May and the posh boys are crap, that's certainly a view I subscribe to.
    I think its a safe assumption that the whole lot of them are crap until proven otherwise.

    Worryingly I suspect that they're no better than the country deserves.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005
    Barnesian said:

    :smile: ... 40% voted for Labour - compared with the 37% who voted for Cameron's majority government in 2015. Some error. The Tories only beat then with 42% share because most of UKIP voted Tory expecting a hard Brexit, which can't be delivered.

    It will be a hell of a lot easier for the Tories to occupy the centre ground now that Labour has unequivocally left it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,893
    FPT:

    Also, as far as I can see Macron is naturally closer to Corbyn than anyone else in our political spectrum.

    I'm not sure about that.

    Macron is an Enarque, and an ex-investment banker globalist free marketeer, who believes the state is too big and wants to liberalise France's sclerotic labour market.

    Corbyn has no great academic achievements, despises business, is naturally suspicious of the EU and would increase regulation and taxes.

    I'm not sure there is an obvious comparable for Macron. He talks the language of the Left, while proposing the solutions of the free market Right. His programme is as free market as Fillon's, and massively more so than Le Pen, Melanchon or the socialist. He's possibly the most pro-free trade French President in history. He's instictively pro-EU, but - as is so often the case in France - is so, because he sees the EU as a way of advancing France's interests.

    Will he succeed?

    I don't know. France is badly broken, and reform often fails on the barricades as lorry drivers and farmers blockade roads and ports to force government climb downs. But I'll give you one thing: he'll try.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005

    I think its a safe assumption that the whole lot of them are crap until proven otherwise.

    Worryingly I suspect that they're no better than the country deserves.

    I wouldn't disagree with any of that, but there is an opportunity opening up if smarter politicians are willing to seize it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635


    The SNP would be desperate to avoid one. In the near future they'd be carved apart by tactical voting everywhere. The voters would now know exactly how to oust them.

    The tricky question for them is how to avoid being seen to be propping up Tories.

    Do you not think project Tory-DUP retox gives the SNP a bit of pushback. I think Scotland is going to remember why it hates the Tories again... Of course the obvious beneficiary of both currents is ... Scottish Labour - a force written off only two years ago !
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,468
    edited June 2017

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.

    That seems a very sensible time scale.

    Surely no one wants to take over even in a caretaker capacity until Brexit is over. Scratch that I've just remembered Mr Gove!
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Barnesian said:

    glw said:

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    As someone right leaning, in a best of a bad bunch sort of way, I must say I'm delighted that Labour are now stuck with Corbyn and watching the volte-face movements of the "moderates" is the cherry on top.

    Tories are in the shit no doubt, but Labour has made a catastrophic error with their adoption of hard left policies and persons.
    :smile: ... 40% voted for Labour - compared with the 37% who voted for Cameron's majority government in 2015. Some error. The Tories only beat then with 42% share because most of UKIP voted Tory expecting a hard Brexit, which can't be delivered.
    You think in a 2 party election Cameron would have lost to Corbyn? Or done worse than May? Really?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    Personally as long as she gets the Queens Speech through the summer recess will be on us and I would expect she would give notice she will stand down after an Autumn successor election
    I agree Big_G, that sounds most likely. Why would she want to linger? Her career is clearly trashed and I can't image being in office without power is any fun at all. Then the big question is does her successor seek a fresh mandate?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,755
    glw said:

    Barnesian said:

    :smile: ... 40% voted for Labour - compared with the 37% who voted for Cameron's majority government in 2015. Some error. The Tories only beat then with 42% share because most of UKIP voted Tory expecting a hard Brexit, which can't be delivered.

    It will be a hell of a lot easier for the Tories to occupy the centre ground now that Labour has unequivocally left it.
    Occupy the centre ground with the LibDems?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    glw said:

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737
  • glwglw Posts: 10,005
    Barnesian said:

    Occupy the centre ground with the LibDems?

    It should be too hard to roll right over the top of the Lib Dems.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited June 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    Also, as far as I can see Macron is naturally closer to Corbyn than anyone else in our political spectrum.

    I'm not sure about that.

    Macron is an Enarque, and an ex-investment banker globalist free marketeer, who believes the state is too big and wants to liberalise France's sclerotic labour market.

    Corbyn has no great academic achievements, despises business, is naturally suspicious of the EU and would increase regulation and taxes.

    I'm not sure there is an obvious comparable for Macron. He talks the language of the Left, while proposing the solutions of the free market Right. His programme is as free market as Fillon's, and massively more so than Le Pen, Melanchon or the socialist. He's possibly the most pro-free trade French President in history. He's instictively pro-EU, but - as is so often the case in France - is so, because he sees the EU as a way of advancing France's interests.

    Will he succeed?

    I don't know. France is badly broken, and reform often fails on the barricades as lorry drivers and farmers blockade roads and ports to force government climb downs. But I'll give you one thing: he'll try.
    Indeed, Macron is nothing like Corbyn, he is a Europhile, economic centrist, if anything he is closest to Nick Clegg from the UK perspective. Corbyn is basically a British Melenchon, a mild Eurosceptic and hardline socialist
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Well I suppose Mrs May threw away 12 seats in a campaign, Cameron and Osborne threw away the economic prosperity of the country for a generation. Let's call it a tie?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2017

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    glw said:

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
    Same old Leavers. Never listen.Never learn. Never their fault.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,893
    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.

    While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    Personally as long as she gets the Queens Speech through the summer recess will be on us and I would expect she would give notice she will stand down after an Autumn successor election
    That would be for the best, but I am not at all convinced that TM thinks like that.

    She may have no choice. I forsee a spring 2018 election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    edited June 2017
    Some Conservative Cabinet ministers are privately lobbying the Theresa May to alter her Brexit plan from an "ideologically driven" approach to a "pragmatic Brexit".

    The new approach would have "fewer things being ruled out" after the Prime Minister's failure to secure an increased mandate at the General Election.

    One senior Cabinet source told Sky News: "What we were proposing genuinely didn't get enough buy-in.

    "The British public themselves haven't reached a conclusion on what they want from Brexit.

    "We need to recognise the outcome... people want practical pragmatism with fewer things being ruled out - not an ideologically-driven approach."

    The election result also raises a question about the democratic legitimacy of the overall approach to Brexit.

    "How do you get a legitimate decision? How does it have legitimacy? It's not instantly obvious," said the Cabinet minister.

    The fact that the PM asked British voters to strengthen her hand in negotiations but instead they reduced her majority might now mean a clear parliamentary vote is required after any Brexit deal.

    http://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-urged-to-ditch-her-brexit-approach-for-pragmatism-10912710
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,893
    rcs1000 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.

    While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
    As an aside, if the LDs had swapped 1,000 votes in Westmoreland & Lonsdale for half that number in St Ives, Richmond Park and Fife NE, then they would have had a truly spectacular night.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    glw said:

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737
    Cameron was clearly the best leader to take the Tories into power from opposition but to be fair to May she did get 42% of the vote 7 years into a Tory government
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:


    The SNP would be desperate to avoid one. In the near future they'd be carved apart by tactical voting everywhere. The voters would now know exactly how to oust them.

    The tricky question for them is how to avoid being seen to be propping up Tories.

    Do you not think project Tory-DUP retox gives the SNP a bit of pushback. I think Scotland is going to remember why it hates the Tories again... Of course the obvious beneficiary of both currents is ... Scottish Labour - a force written off only two years ago !
    Much depends on the DUP's price. Retaining the triple lock and securing an increased role for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in Brexit would be unlikely to scare the horses.

    Making 12 July a bank holiday would.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274

    Pulpstar said:


    The SNP would be desperate to avoid one. In the near future they'd be carved apart by tactical voting everywhere. The voters would now know exactly how to oust them.

    The tricky question for them is how to avoid being seen to be propping up Tories.

    Do you not think project Tory-DUP retox gives the SNP a bit of pushback. I think Scotland is going to remember why it hates the Tories again... Of course the obvious beneficiary of both currents is ... Scottish Labour - a force written off only two years ago !
    Much depends on the DUP's price. Retaining the triple lock and securing an increased role for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in Brexit would be unlikely to scare the horses.

    Making 12 July a bank holiday would.
    Actually, it's a better day to have a bank holiday than the dates suggested by Corbyn. But I think it's unlikely to happen for obvious reasons.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    Pulpstar said:


    The SNP would be desperate to avoid one. In the near future they'd be carved apart by tactical voting everywhere. The voters would now know exactly how to oust them.

    The tricky question for them is how to avoid being seen to be propping up Tories.

    Do you not think project Tory-DUP retox gives the SNP a bit of pushback. I think Scotland is going to remember why it hates the Tories again... Of course the obvious beneficiary of both currents is ... Scottish Labour - a force written off only two years ago !
    There are more supporters of the Orange Order in Scotland than in the entirety of England and Wales combined
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    Loads of doubt. One thing the Tories got wrong was to neglect the domestic agenda, Farage is even worse at that.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    glw said:

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737
    Is there one for majorities won and lost too?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    Personally as long as she gets the Queens Speech through the summer recess will be on us and I would expect she would give notice she will stand down after an Autumn successor election
    That would be for the best, but I am not at all convinced that TM thinks like that.

    She may have no choice. I forsee a spring 2018 election.
    I both can't see how the Tories can hold a second election during Brexit negotiations, and can't see how they can avoid it. My judgement is that they've chosen the former path and may be tripped up by it later.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    What is this "Jobs first Brexit"?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFlfn5_3-IM
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    midwinter said:

    glw said:

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737
    Is there one for majorities won and lost too?
    Let me work on that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    No, Corbyn might even have beaten Farage, it would have been the British equivalent of Le Pen v Melenchon
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    It's a truly terrifying thought! But I suspect he is too extreme for the moderate middle. Worth remembering he has never been elected to Westminster in how many attempts? He's clever though, I'll grant you that.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:


    The SNP would be desperate to avoid one. In the near future they'd be carved apart by tactical voting everywhere. The voters would now know exactly how to oust them.

    The tricky question for them is how to avoid being seen to be propping up Tories.

    Do you not think project Tory-DUP retox gives the SNP a bit of pushback. I think Scotland is going to remember why it hates the Tories again... Of course the obvious beneficiary of both currents is ... Scottish Labour - a force written off only two years ago !
    There are more supporters of the Orange Order in Scotland than in the entirety of England and Wales combined
    Now c.20k - peaked at 250k !
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,924
    Sean_F said:

    For those on the left, since 8th June it has become a delight to read threads here written by Conservatives about their own party.

    I'm sure it must be a delight. For so many Conservatives, their true enemies reside in their own party.
    Wasn't it once said that 'the Conservative party was all about being in power' ?

    But as British political, military and economic power has dwindled and British governments become more and more restricted in what they can do perhaps the only thing that Conservative politicians can have power over is the Conservative party. Hence the feuding and bitterness within it.

    There are, of course, attempts by Conservative politicians to strut about the world stage posturing as the new Churchill or Thatcher - Cameron's vanity wars and overseas aid profligacy for example or May with Trump - but they're weak and usually disastrous echoes of how things once were.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    No, Corbyn might even have beaten Farage, it would have been the British equivalent of Le Pen v Melenchon
    Not if Farage was Leader of Conservative Party
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    So when will May be gone? And by that I mean when will she announce she's going?

    If she gets a Queen's speech passed, I think she'll be safe until the conference.

    Then I expect her to announce in October 2018, once the provisional Brexit deal has been done, that she'll be gone by the summer of 2019.

    My feeling is that the Tory party doesn't want any of the following

    1) Her to stay
    2) A 3 month leadership contest
    3) A coronation.

    Because of 2 and 3, she'll stay, unless she fecks up in a new way.
    You think she can/will last two more years? Really?
    Perhaps time for a May exit date thread.

    The only thing keeping her in office is the understandable reluctance of would be replacement leaders to accept the hospital pass.

    The ideal scenario for Labour is that she clings on and on, with the DUP and various rebellious factions in her own party causing utter chaos on a weekly basis, but it wouldn't be much good for the country. The likely behaviour of the Tory europhiles has been barely commented on thus far, but Anna Soubry didn't look in much of a mood to tow the line when she was interviewed this morning on Marr.

    Recess is on 21 July, which means she still has six weeks to cling on just to make it to the summer break. She can probably do it, but it's not guaranteed. Nothing is anymore.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Expect pushback from the my party right or wrong brigade...

    I'm used it.

    For a year, they kept on telling me I was bitter, that the posh boys were crap and Mrs May was awesome.
    It's possible that both May and the posh boys are crap, that's certainly a view I subscribe to.
    And Cameron created the vacancy for May to fill, and (by leaving her as Home Sec for so long) the illusion that she was of more political use than a filigree condom. If the posh boys weren't crap, they would today be PM and CotE.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    rcs1000 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.

    While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
    Zero defenses vs Labour next time round makes for an interesting dynamic.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963

    glw said:

    Want me to post the bar chart showing the number of net gains Cameron made vs the number of net gains Mrs May made?

    I don't even have to go all Lib Dem to make that bar chart look bad.

    Go ahead, but it won't change my opinion the Cameron screwed up the referendum and that Osborne is a berk.
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/873978710038388737
    You're comparing apples and oranges in terms of starting seats, time in power, and quality of opponent. In response to your earlier post I do now accept that May is crap too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    No, Corbyn might even have beaten Farage, it would have been the British equivalent of Le Pen v Melenchon
    Not if Farage was Leader of Conservative Party
    A Farage led Tory Party would have made zero gains in Scotland and while it may have made a few more gains in Leave areas of England and Wales it would have lost seats like Cheltenham and Lewes the Tories just held from the LDs
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,345
    Blimey, not a tweet I was expecting to see

    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/873978901588062210
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.

    While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
    Zero defenses vs Labour next time round makes for an interesting dynamic.
    Farron only just held on in Westmoreland. One last heave.
  • midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    Loads of doubt. One thing the Tories got wrong was to neglect the domestic agenda, Farage is even worse at that.
    Unfortunately certain parts of the Conservative party consider you aren't a true Tory unless you have an all consuming obsession with the EU.
    It's never ceases to amaze them when the electorate find that view...odd.To the extent of preferring Jeremy Corbyn in some cases.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    Quincel said:

    Thinking about second election betting (StanJames offering roughly 1/3 on no second election this year) - how late in the year do we have to get before there simply isn't time? I guess it depends on how the election is called.

    Vote of no confidence is 5 weeks, right? That's 2 weeks for a second confidence vote not to pass and then 3 weeks for the campaign. But anything else would be slower?

    If the Tories chose to have a second election, might they avoid a winter date? 1974 was Feb and October, but we're already in June. Not long now if we don't want a freezing campaign. On the other hand, MPs may not have that level of control. If the DUP deal collapses it's election right now.

    DYOR, but I don't feel that a second election imminently is likely, even 25% likely (for 1/3 being value on it not happening).The Tories haven't gone for one over the weekend, and they are close enough to 325 that I imagine they'll try to form a minority even if the DUP don't agree. A no confidence vote could be forced, but as some have discussed below no-one bar Labour (and possibly even some of them) want a snap election.

    You have to factor in the time for a leadership election.

    Unless May resigns (as Party leader) before the summer recess, the earliest she could resign is early Sept.

    Assuming the leadership contest goes to the members, it'll take at least 6 weeks which means a new leader wouldn't become PM until mid to late October. If they then called a GE immediately, the GE wouldn't be until early December.

    A December GE isn't plausible.

    So I think no GE this year - unless May resigns as Party leader before Parliament breaks up in July.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,528
    isam said:

    What is this "Jobs first Brexit"?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFlfn5_3-IM

    Corbyn can sit back and demand cake and eat it. He learned this from vote leave. The government will have to deliver it without the numbers
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,893
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    No, Corbyn might even have beaten Farage, it would have been the British equivalent of Le Pen v Melenchon
    Not if Farage was Leader of Conservative Party
    Also, Brexit negotiations between Farage and Juncker would boil down to a historic drinking competition.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rcs1000 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.

    While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
    I think that LDs will fight the next election a bit differently. The Brexit policy needs fettling, and I would favour Lamb as leader. He has more gravitas, though Swinson is also good. I wouldn't be upset if Farron continued, but he needs to consult wider and not be such a one man band.

    I think LDs will benefit from the extinction of UKIP in terms of television coverage next time round.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    What a pile of bollocks (the reshuffle). Why bother?

    Plus Jezza looking positively prime ministerial this morning.

    Raab is a twat.

    Other than that, what's up?
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    In due course Corbyn will have seen off two Tory Primeministers.

    Let that sink in.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Blimey, not a tweet I was expecting to see

    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/873978901588062210

    Blimey, not a tweet I was expecting to see

    https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/873978901588062210

    Has Boris been drinking?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,766

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    Loads of doubt. One thing the Tories got wrong was to neglect the domestic agenda, Farage is even worse at that.

    He is also profoundly anti-British. He is a cheerleader for foreign leaders who wish the UK harm. Little Lord Haw Haw would drive the Tories over a cliff.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,893
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    dr_spyn said:

    LD candidates lost 375 deposits, Farron must be wary of a push for another General Election.

    They also increased their number of seats by 50%, and came within about four hundred votes of doubling their representation. Another election might well see them capture St Ives, Richmond Park, Fife NE and Cheltenham.

    While things obviously didn't play out as well for them as they'd hoped at the beginning of the campaign, I suspect senior LibDems feel they've done OK.
    Zero defenses vs Labour next time round makes for an interesting dynamic.
    No-one predicted the reappearance of tactical voting. Mrs May made it OK for middle class Labour-ites to vote yellow.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Surely the best thing about the election is the impending return of the UK's most successful politician?

    I'm sorry, I'm being dense I know, but who?
    Super Nigel Farage!

    If he was Conservative Leader, is there any doubt he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn? Majority of 100 odd
    No, Corbyn might even have beaten Farage, it would have been the British equivalent of Le Pen v Melenchon
    Not if Farage was Leader of Conservative Party
    A Farage led Tory Party would have made zero gains in Scotland and while it may have made a few more gains in Leave areas of England and Wales it would have lost seats like Cheltenham and Lewes the Tories just held from the LDs
    It is a bit silly to discuss hypotheticals in this degree of intricacy! My wider point is that if Farage was Conservative leader, having never been in UKIP, he would have wiped the floor w Corbyn in the debates and galvanised the Tory support in a way May couldn't dream of.

    He got UKIP to 13%! Someone should do a bar chart of UKIP support 2010, 2015 , 2017!!!
This discussion has been closed.