Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.
We get the point.
Southam is an intelligent poster who posts as the concerned everyman, but is actually an assiduous campaigner.
Labour should hire him.
Given that one of the criteria for working for the Labour leader is not to have voted Labour in the previous election I may have a chance later in the year :-)
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.
We get the point.
Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!
I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.
So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.
So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.
Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)
More than 60% of the country is on fb, not just those with computers but of the whole country with Grand parents seeing the biggest growth.
It is spooky how ubiquitous and invisible at the same time a facebook campaign can be. In the 2010 election we could all laugh at the same socking great posters of DC's airbrushed forehead; now I wouldn't have known about the IRA attack ad, but for Guido, and there's no knowing that the 2.1m views aren't clocked up by Labour facebookbot farms rather than actual people. The grauniad is worried about it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election
The Grauiad is worried because its legal and it works. Who reads the Guardian bar luvvies?.
So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.
Did I miss anything?
SeanT
How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?
You
I
Yes,
Surely
the
That's a meteoric Labour rise.
But, I remain to be convinced it will hold through to polling day.
yeah, there's three things going on.
1) Tory jump immediately after election called, seemingly totally at expense of UKIP.
followed by
2) Tory knocked back where they started after Manifesto (i.e removing the froth)
and, concurrently,
3) Labour squeezing Libs and UKIP (and Greens) consistently and hard. This last one has to run out sometime.
This is, of course, if the polls aren't recording nonsense from Labour (heavy weights of non2015 voters etc).
I think there's a non-zero chance of that tbh.
Will all the young turnout? No. Of course not. They never do.
I'd expect Labour on 30-33% now. The latter would be very good, and would mean Corbyn wouldn't be going anywhere. When all other parties outside the main two collapse (and they have) and all the memes are about a Tory landslide, it's the only other home for the Left, and those who oppose May, in England at least.
But, the hubris of the Tories has been annoying me for weeks. I read in the Spectator the other week that some Tories were saying they think they're in power until at least GE2027 and more than a few were expecting to be so into the 2040s, and the opinion poll leads seemed to be viewed as some sort of currency that could be partially traded for contentious policies.
PS The video has gone totally viral. Right now it's now getting about 3000 hits a minute.
Who cares? This was to be expected. The right-wing/hard right-wing press were not going to keep quiet for long. The press arm of the one party state kicking into gear.
PS - a very good evening from Colombo!
It wasn't about whether they kept quiet, it was about whether people would be listening. I think we know the answer to that.
Hope you had a good flight.
Had a good flight thanks. Emirates is a class airline. Would have flown BA if they flew to Colombo (unbelievable as SL is a former British colony). Similarly no direct flight from London to Lusska when I went to Zambia in 2015. BA is now a medium sized operator at best!
Why operate long haul routes to tiny economies with minimal tourism?
The focus on colonial routes helped to wreck the British aircraft industry.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.
We get the point.
Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!
I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.
So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.
I have quite a lot of confidence in David Davis, as it happens.
He seems well on top of his brief.
I would feel the same way about Fox if he wasn't such a self-promoter and egomanic.
I'm afraid to say I have little face in Boris Johnson in anything outside his columns and speeches. We really dodged a bullet there.
So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.
Did I miss anything?
SeanT
How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?
You
I
Yes,
Surely
the
That's a meteoric Labour rise.
But, I remain to be convinced it will hold through to polling day.
yeah, there's three things going on.
1) Tory jump immediately after election called, seemingly totally at expense of UKIP.
followed by
2) Tory knocked back where they started after Manifesto (i.e removing the froth)
and, concurrently,
3) Labour squeezing Libs and UKIP (and Greens) consistently and hard. This last one has to run out sometime.
This is, of course, if the polls aren't recording nonsense from Labour (heavy weights of non2015 voters etc).
I think there's a non-zero chance of that tbh.
Will all the young turnout? No. Of course not. They never do.
They did in Scotland, albeit stillnot as much as the oldies. Now, a GE is nowhere on that level but it is clearly possible to get them too, but will having cocked up by not voting in 2015 and 2016 finally spark enthused Corbynite youngsters to turnout?
Probably not, at least not significantly more than usual, but Corbyn sure hopes so.
So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.
Did I miss anything?
SeanT
How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?
You
I
Yes,
Surely
the
That's a meteoric Labour rise.
But, I remain to be convinced it will hold through to polling day.
yeah, there's three things going on.
1) Tory jump immediately after election called, seemingly totally at expense of UKIP.
followed by
2) Tory knocked back where they started after Manifesto (i.e removing the froth)
and, concurrently,
3) Labour squeezing Libs and UKIP (and Greens) consistently and hard. This last one has to run out sometime.
This is, of course, if the polls aren't recording nonsense from Labour (heavy weights of non2015 voters etc).
I think there's a non-zero chance of that tbh.
Will all the young turnout? No. Of course not. They never do.
They did in Scotland, albeit stillnot as much as the oldies. Now, a GE is nowhere on that level but it is clearly possible to get them too, but will having cocked up by not voting in 2015 and 2016 finally spark enthused Corbynite youngsters to turnout?
Probably not, at least not significantly more than usual, but Corbyn sure hopes so.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
May is very mediocre. Her six years at the Home Office was a complete failure. She likes to compare herself with Thatcher. Like it or not, Thatcher believed in certain things.
May switches her position according to convenience.
So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.
Did I miss anything?
SeanT regretting sending in his postal vote for the Tories and wishing he had voted for Corbyn's Labour instead.
How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?
You also missed me reacting like a flashed Victorian spinster to the horror of the Dementia Tax, and going into total meltdown - hysterical even by my standards - with me screaming THIS IS A FUCKING DISASTER for about six hours straight
All the loftier Tories on here told me to shut up and calm down, the policy was jolly sensible, and wouldn't change any votes, it was a great, seriously-minded manifesto, blah blah
Then the polls came out and it turned out I was entirely right, and they were entirely wrong. It was a fucking disaster.
I hope you also noticed that those PB Tories who supported the original manifesto commitment also supported the U-turn. To be fair to you, you did ask for its abandonment immediately.
Yes, and I was right then, too. The U-turn was popular, supported by 32%, and rejected by 20%, according to YouGov (I think)
May says it was not a u turn, and still will not tell us the cap. I hope you can explain .
Won't that be the main Question on QT leaders debate for the tories,soon to find out.
Tyke I think they are holding it in York. Since the BBC moved some of their operations to Salford they seem to use York a lot asking people their views etc. Do you think Huddersfield will make it to the premier league ?
It's being held in Cambridge.
Question time leaders special to be held in York on 02/06/2017 T May and J Corbyn 20:30 BBC 1.
Ah I was thinking about the seven way.
I only knew because Look North keeps mentioning it.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Yes. I would also attack Corbyn's judgement in appointing the same to those key positions.
Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
I'm still having trouble taking in the ghastly reality that these three horrible people are in fact 'the top of the Labour Party'.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Abbott needs no assistance. This mornings "Hairstyle" interview was hilarious.
So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.
Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)
In my experience Facebook is most assiduously used by women in their 50s and above. The younger generation dropped off Facebook except for semi-formal posts when the older gernation came on.
I get a lot of posts about puppies, about Strong Women and heartwarming moral stories about treating people nicely.
Imagine my horror when, as a 35-year old, my teenage nephews told me that Facebook was for "old people".
I get babies, virtue-signalling, adverts, and holiday-boasting, mainly.
If, however, lots of middle aged and older voters now use Facebook, then the Tory attack ad will be getting through to people with the best record of voting.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
May is very mediocre. Her six years at the Home Office was a complete failure. She likes to compare herself with Thatcher. Like it or not, Thatcher believed in certain things.
May switches her position according to convenience.
just because you write things doesn't make them true.. if you want to know what failure is , look at the last 6 Labour Home Secs , all of them duds... the worst of which was Jacqui Smith.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.
We get the point.
Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!
I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.
So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.
I have quite a lot of confidence in David Davis, as it happens.
He seems well on top of his brief.
I would feel the same way about Fox if he wasn't such a self-promoter and egomanic.
I'm afraid to say I have little face in Boris Johnson in anything outside his columns and speeches. We really dodged a bullet there.
Not a great fan of David Davis' politics but he does come across as being on top of his brief. Is it just me but he also comes across as a really affable chap!
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
May is very mediocre. Her six years at the Home Office was a complete failure. She likes to compare herself with Thatcher. Like it or not, Thatcher believed in certain things.
May switches her position according to convenience.
So what's better - a pragmatist who is able to change their mind according to the facts, or an idealogue who's views are set in stone?
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Yes. I would also attack Corbyn's judgement in appointing the same to those key positions.
Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?
Because he doesn't want to reassure.
To be fair, every serious politician in Labour has refused to work with him, and has voted against him in leadership elections. So he was forced to choose Diane Abbott. Not that it makes her any better. She's probably cost 1m votes by herself.
The Marxist, IRA-loving McDonnell, however, was a deliberate selection by Corbyn right from the start.
So, he can be attacked on both judgement and competence.
May needs to call up Major and Cameron to vox-pop for her on TV.
Thing is, I think she's too stubborn and proud to do that, even they though would both willingly do their duty,
So, to sum up, here’s what should happen to the Tory campaign…
1. Let Lynton be Lynton and give him total control 2. Brexit means Brexit, and it needs to be a dominant issue in the last 9 days 3. Widen the circle of ministers appearing on the media 4. Deploy Boris 5. Deploy Philip Hammond and take the fight to Labour on the economy 6. Leadership, leadership, leadership – make the contrast at every available opportunity 7. Constantly raise the prospect of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary 8. Ensure the country sees the Conservatives as the party of security and defence 9. Underplay the poll lead so as not to risk a low turnout 10. Address the issue of the women’s vote disappearing to Labour
So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.
Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)
In my experience Facebook is most assiduously used by women in their 50s and above. The younger generation dropped off Facebook except for semi-formal posts when the older gernation came on.
I get a lot of posts about puppies, about Strong Women and heartwarming moral stories about treating people nicely.
Imagine my horror when, as a 35-year old, my teenage nephews told me that Facebook was for "old people".
I get babies, virtue-signalling, adverts, and holiday-boasting, mainly.
If, however, lots of middle aged and older voters now use Facebook, then the Tory attack ad will be getting through to people with the best record of voting.
Indeed, I don't pretend to understand it.
On the flip-side, how many people are there on the Right like you and me actually hitting the streets compared to those on the Left just retweeting and venting on social media?
Not millions either way. But enough to make a small difference in some key areas.
If the Corbynbite youth surge was really a nationwide movement with incipient political effect, I'd expect to see thousands of young volunteers getting off their arses all over the country.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Yes. I would also attack Corbyn's judgement in appointing the same to those key positions.
Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?
Because he doesn't want to reassure.
To be fair, every serious politician in Labour has refused to work with him, and has voted against him in leadership elections. So he was forced to choose Diane Abbott. Not that it makes her any better. She's probably cost 1m votes by herself.
The Marxist, IRA-loving McDonnell, however, was a deliberate selection by Corbyn right from the start.
So, he can be attacked on both judgement and competence.
May needs to call up Major and Cameron to vox-pop for her on TV.
Thing is, I think she's too stubborn and proud to do that, even they though would both willingly do their duty,
John Major especially can and should attack Corbyn for his claim to support the peace process.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
She took a brave decision to tackle the care crisis during an election campaign, and it didn't work out well for her. The safe option would have been to pretend it doesn't exist, like most other politicians have been doing for the last 20 years.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
It's relevant to know the views of a potential PM, Chancellor, and Home Secretary on defence and security.
Maybe they did abhor the methods of the IRA, but believed that a policy of total non-resistance was the best way to make peace with them. But, while that's an acceptable stance to take if you're the leader of CND or the British Humanist Association, it is totally unsuitable for anyone who wishes to govern the UK.
So, to sum up, here’s what should happen to the Tory campaign…
1. Let Lynton be Lynton and give him total control 2. Brexit means Brexit, and it needs to be a dominant issue in the last 9 days 3. Widen the circle of ministers appearing on the media 4. Deploy Boris 5. Deploy Philip Hammond and take the fight to Labour on the economy 6. Leadership, leadership, leadership – make the contrast at every available opportunity 7. Constantly raise the prospect of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary 8. Ensure the country sees the Conservatives as the party of security and defence 9. Underplay the poll lead so as not to risk a low turnout 10. Address the issue of the women’s vote disappearing to Labour
Re no 10, the IRA stuff will repulse a heck of a lot of women. Corbyn's cuddly grandpa routine has been dismantled over the last week. Not before time.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Abbott needs no assistance. This mornings "Hairstyle" interview was hilarious.
It was, and the hairstyle itself wasn't the best thing about it. It's the robotic "34 years and I have moved on"; she says "34 years" five times in just over a minute.
It's not a "trick", the Tories got in first, and secured the best Facebook slots in the right areas, and muscled Labour out of the arena. Boohoo.
The Guardian thinks by putting the word "dark" in front of it they can fool readers into believing it was somehow ileagal or broke the rules. It doesn't. This was a key art of the tory targetting in 2015 and every party should be doing it. The girls seem to be complaining they weren't given a free run.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Abbott needs no assistance. This mornings "Hairstyle" interview was hilarious.
Most people don't know she is vying for the job that tries to keep us safe from terror though.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.
We get the point.
Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!
I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.
So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.
I have quite a lot of confidence in David Davis, as it happens.
He seems well on top of his brief.
I would feel the same way about Fox if he wasn't such a self-promoter and egomanic.
I'm afraid to say I have little face in Boris Johnson in anything outside his columns and speeches. We really dodged a bullet there.
Not a great fan of David Davis' politics but he does come across as being on top of his brief. Is it just me but he also comes across as a really affable chap!
Hate Liam Fox every which way.
His reputation is as a bruiser, and someone who doesn't take prisoners, but also that of a fighter and hardworker.
He's lucky he's shook off the (slightly unfair) reputation he had under Cameron for being a totally undisciplined and unreliable renegade, who was slightly unhinged.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
May is very mediocre. Her six years at the Home Office was a complete failure. She likes to compare herself with Thatcher. Like it or not, Thatcher believed in certain things.
May switches her position according to convenience.
just because you write things doesn't make them true.. if you want to know what failure is , look at the last 6 Labour Home Secs , all of them duds... the worst of which was Jacqui Smith.
Because the Labour Home Secs were awful isn't an excuse for Mrs May to be so. I'll vote for her because of the horrific alternatives but like many it will be begrudgingly. As PM she's been very average at best.
But, while that's an acceptable stance to take if you're the leader of CND or the British Humanist Association, it is totally unsuitable for anyone who wishes to govern the UK.
I was in the same year at school as Andrew Copson. He'll probably vote labour but he's no fan of Corbyn.
She took a brave decision to tackle the care crisis during an election campaign, and it didn't work out well for her. The safe option would have been to pretend it doesn't exist, like most other politicians have been doing for the last 20 years.
Thank God she didn't try to sort out pensions on the hoof as well, Labour would probably be in the lead if she had done that.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
She took a brave decision to tackle the care crisis during an election campaign, and it didn't work out well for her. The safe option would have been to pretend it doesn't exist, like most other politicians have been doing for the last 20 years.
Labour on the other hand need to keep this bounce going, but that requires not one knock back in the next ten days and I doubt they can get that lucky.
Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB. I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now. The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.
Yes. I would also attack Corbyn's judgement in appointing the same to those key positions.
Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?
Because he doesn't want to reassure.
To be fair, every serious politician in Labour has refused to work with him, and has voted against him in leadership elections. So he was forced to choose Diane Abbott. Not that it makes her any better. She's probably cost 1m votes by herself.
The Marxist, IRA-loving McDonnell, however, was a deliberate selection by Corbyn right from the start.
So, he can be attacked on both judgement and competence.
May needs to call up Major and Cameron to vox-pop for her on TV.
Thing is, I think she's too stubborn and proud to do that, even they though would both willingly do their duty,
John Major especially can and should attack Corbyn for his claim to support the peace process.
I think Major burnt his boats with his Remoaner denunciations, sadly. He made vivid and very personal attacks on members of May's Cabinet
If he went on TV he would be asked "do you still think Boris is a lying shite?" etc etc, and he would squirm.
So, sadly, no room for John M this time around.
Oh, he did all that in the 1990s as well.
Politicians attack and defend in all sorts of directions, and change angles all the time. It's what they do.
It's not a "trick", the Tories got in first, and secured the best Facebook slots in the right areas, and muscled Labour out of the arena. Boohoo.
The funniest part is that they basically say it won't be effective as they think people want local face to face talk, and yet are still complaining.
As far as I see it, if no rules are being broken, there's nothing to complain about as 'dark' or 'unregulated'. If the rules should be tougher, that's a separate issue.
That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.
I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.
I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.
She took a brave decision to tackle the care crisis during an election campaign, and it didn't work out well for her. The safe option would have been to pretend it doesn't exist, like most other politicians have been doing for the last 20 years.
And this is why.
Yep. Politically a silly decision, except for that if she does still win now, and comfortably enough to survive inevitable rebellions on some tough issues, she can point to that she promised to do it.
There was one after the police numbers incident, didn't seem to harm the polls at any rate, but the whole issue did seem to cut through to people more than most political incidents.
Even if we accept that part of Corbyn's back story is 'priced in', the cumulative effect of having three of Labour's top four positions expressing support for Britain's enemies over long periods of time must have an effect eventually.
I don't see how it can't. None of us live in a vacuum. If you don't see this stuff on social media, you read it in the papers. If you don't read it in the papers, you see it on TV. If you don't see it on TV, you hear it on the radio.
And the worst of it for Labour is that these are not Tory smears - they are well documented and evidenced by their own words and deeds. What a tragedy for the Labour party - and British politics in general - to have these people (and shamefully, a growing amount of apologists) as leaders of the main opposition.
So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.
Did I miss anything?
SeanT regretting sending in his postal vote for the Tories and wishing he had voted for Corbyn's Labour instead.
How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?
You also missed me reacting like a flashed Victorian spinster to the horror of the Dementia Tax, and going into total meltdown - hysterical even by my standards - with me screaming THIS IS A FUCKING DISASTER for about six hours straight
All the loftier Tories on here told me to shut up and calm down, the policy was jolly sensible, and wouldn't change any votes, it was a great, seriously-minded manifesto, blah blah
Then the polls came out and it turned out I was entirely right, and they were entirely wrong. It was a fucking disaster.
I hope you also noticed that those PB Tories who supported the original manifesto commitment also supported the U-turn. To be fair to you, you did ask for its abandonment immediately.
Yes, and I was right then, too. The U-turn was popular, supported by 32%, and rejected by 20%, according to YouGov (I think)
May says it was not a u turn, and still will not tell us the cap. I hope you can explain .
Won't that be the main Question on QT leaders debate for the tories,soon to find out.
Tyke I think they are holding it in York. Since the BBC moved some of their operations to Salford they seem to use York a lot asking people their views etc. Do you think Huddersfield will make it to the premier league ?
It's being held in Cambridge.
Question time leaders special to be held in York on 02/06/2017 T May and J Corbyn 20:30 BBC 1.
What absolute cads those people in Tory head office are, releasing ads containing clips of what Corbyn and Abbott have actually said. Just not cricket.
Loving the new attack ads - the Labour leadership condemn themselves out of their own appeasing mouths. The Tory vote share is holding up just fine, so the focus for the next 10 days needs to be pure attack - voting for Corbyn, Abbott, and McDonnell needs to feel like the grubby, anti-British act it is.
We're not allowed to strip people of citizenship if it would leave them stateless. Human rights lawyers say so!
Then lock them up and throw away the key. I have really hardened my views recently.
If you fight for IS you are a traitor, IMO
Since IS are a proscribed terrorist group anyone who returns after fighting for them can simply be convicted and imprisoned. Why does this have to be complicated?
Tory I may be but my parental home was (cerebral) Labour. Can't help feeling a twinge of sorrow for my parents' party's takeover by these utter bastards. Just a small twinge, mind. That was, oh, at least 34 years ago and I've moved on. Different hair an' all.
Just seen that fb ad re Abbott, like everyone else has said, condemned, once again, by their own actions. McDonnell next, I guess, then a deluxe ad with all three of them. Hard hitting, brutal, effective, resonant. Gifted by the Labour party.
CCHQ has finally awoken from its stupor, and maybe just in the nick of time.
Nice to see a positive vision of the sunlit uplands we can expect from a Conservative government.
Has "Strong and Stable" been consigned to the bin now?
Frankly, positive visions are for when you're fighting a normal election against normal politicians. Labour deserves to be annihilated for daring to put up a cabal of appeasers as their candidates for power. Once the Corbynites have been kicked out, we can revert to mocking normal Labour leaders for their eating habits like civilised people.
For what it is worth, I've not been browsing anything political online (bar this) for the past week, and I've only seen Corbyn's IRA connections mentioned once. It will still take a while for this to filter through to the general consciousness.
Wonder if Amber Rudd is being QT scenario wargamed right now ?
I think she had already had a practice at the Police Federation Conference.
Plus she was fronted for the Remain campaign [ remember most of the Tories were for Remain ]. Didn't she say that it was not safe to be in a taxi with Boris ?
Nice to see a positive vision of the sunlit uplands we can expect from a Conservative government.
Has "Strong and Stable" been consigned to the bin now?
Frankly, positive visions are for when you're fighting a normal election against normal politicians. Labour deserves to be annihilated for daring to put up a cabal of appeasers as their candidates for power. Once the Corbynites have been kicked out, we can revert to mocking normal Labour leaders for their eating habits like civilised people.
Your annihilation technique is not working very well. Labour has put on 10 points in the campaign.
So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.
Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)
More than 60% of the country is on fb, not just those with computers but of the whole country with Grand parents seeing the biggest growth.
It is spooky how ubiquitous and invisible at the same time a facebook campaign can be. In the 2010 election we could all laugh at the same socking great posters of DC's airbrushed forehead; now I wouldn't have known about the IRA attack ad, but for Guido, and there's no knowing that the 2.1m views aren't clocked up by Labour facebookbot farms rather than actual people. The grauniad is worried about it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election
lol. That entire article is basically a big long whinge that the Tories are unexpectedly better and cleverer at using social media. Tough shit.
I think the point was that the Tories are better able to pay for it. That the Tories did better than average just where they needed to last time was good evidence that cheque books sway votes, whether it's Facebook ads or buses. That should be troubling to people other than regular Guardian readers.
So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.
Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)
More than 60% of the country is on fb, not just those with computers but of the whole country with Grand parents seeing the biggest growth.
It is spooky how ubiquitous and invisible at the same time a facebook campaign can be. In the 2010 election we could all laugh at the same socking great posters of DC's airbrushed forehead; now I wouldn't have known about the IRA attack ad, but for Guido, and there's no knowing that the 2.1m views aren't clocked up by Labour facebookbot farms rather than actual people. The grauniad is worried about it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election
lol. That entire article is basically a big long whinge that the Tories are unexpectedly better and cleverer at using social media. Tough shit.
I think the point was that the Tories are better able to pay for it. That the Tories did better than average just where they needed to last time was good evidence that cheque books sway votes, whether it's Facebook ads or buses. That should be troubling to people other than regular Guardian readers.
In whatvway is it expensive. .. I just ask out of curiosity.
So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.
Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)
More than 60% of the country is on fb, not just those with computers but of the whole country with Grand parents seeing the biggest growth.
It is spooky how ubiquitous and invisible at the same time a facebook campaign can be. In the 2010 election we could all laugh at the same socking great posters of DC's airbrushed forehead; now I wouldn't have known about the IRA attack ad, but for Guido, and there's no knowing that the 2.1m views aren't clocked up by Labour facebookbot farms rather than actual people. The grauniad is worried about it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election
lol. That entire article is basically a big long whinge that the Tories are unexpectedly better and cleverer at using social media. Tough shit.
I think the point was that the Tories are better able to pay for it. That the Tories did better than average just where they needed to last time was good evidence that cheque books sway votes, whether it's Facebook ads or buses. That should be troubling to people other than regular Guardian readers.
In whatvway is it expensive. .. I just ask out of curiosity.
According to the article the Tory spend bid the price of an impression up from just over a quid to about three quid. So to have an impact you need to spend around a million. So we are talking about a big chunk of a campaign. So really only Labour and the Conservatives can afford to play at all, and the Tories have the biggest pot.
Comments
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.
Hope the PB Tories are more relaxed now after yesterday's polls? They seem rather underwhelming for Lanour at first glance.
I'd expect Labour on 30-33% now. The latter would be very good, and would mean Corbyn wouldn't be going anywhere. When all other parties outside the main two collapse (and they have) and all the memes are about a Tory landslide, it's the only other home for the Left, and those who oppose May, in England at least.
But, the hubris of the Tories has been annoying me for weeks. I read in the Spectator the other week that some Tories were saying they think they're in power until at least GE2027 and more than a few were expecting to be so into the 2040s, and the opinion poll leads seemed to be viewed as some sort of currency that could be partially traded for contentious policies.
I thought: you idiots.
The focus on colonial routes helped to wreck the British aircraft industry.
He seems well on top of his brief.
I would feel the same way about Fox if he wasn't such a self-promoter and egomanic.
I'm afraid to say I have little face in Boris Johnson in anything outside his columns and speeches. We really dodged a bullet there.
Probably not, at least not significantly more than usual, but Corbyn sure hopes so.
May switches her position according to convenience.
Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?
Because he doesn't want to reassure.
POLWAS.
Con Facebook trick.
Hate Liam Fox every which way.
https://twitter.com/RichardKerbaj/status/868749359449591808
May needs to call up Major and Cameron to vox-pop for her on TV.
Thing is, I think she's too stubborn and proud to do that, even they though would both willingly do their duty,
So, to sum up, here’s what should happen to the Tory campaign…
1. Let Lynton be Lynton and give him total control
2. Brexit means Brexit, and it needs to be a dominant issue in the last 9 days
3. Widen the circle of ministers appearing on the media
4. Deploy Boris
5. Deploy Philip Hammond and take the fight to Labour on the economy
6. Leadership, leadership, leadership – make the contrast at every available opportunity
7. Constantly raise the prospect of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary
8. Ensure the country sees the Conservatives as the party of security and defence
9. Underplay the poll lead so as not to risk a low turnout
10. Address the issue of the women’s vote disappearing to Labour
http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2017/05/28/what-should-the-tories-do-to-get-their-campaign-back-on-track-answer-let-lynton-be-lynton-maybe-ditch-the-social-care-policy-altogether?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
On the flip-side, how many people are there on the Right like you and me actually hitting the streets compared to those on the Left just retweeting and venting on social media?
Not millions either way. But enough to make a small difference in some key areas.
If the Corbynbite youth surge was really a nationwide movement with incipient political effect, I'd expect to see thousands of young volunteers getting off their arses all over the country.
Maybe they did abhor the methods of the IRA, but believed that a policy of total non-resistance was the best way to make peace with them. But, while that's an acceptable stance to take if you're the leader of CND or the British Humanist Association, it is totally unsuitable for anyone who wishes to govern the UK.
He's lucky he's shook off the (slightly unfair) reputation he had under Cameron for being a totally undisciplined and unreliable renegade, who was slightly unhinged.
Politicians attack and defend in all sorts of directions, and change angles all the time. It's what they do.
Get him on.
As far as I see it, if no rules are being broken, there's nothing to complain about as 'dark' or 'unregulated'. If the rules should be tougher, that's a separate issue.
https://www.facebook.com/conservatives/videos/10155032929929279/
I don't see how it can't. None of us live in a vacuum. If you don't see this stuff on social media, you read it in the papers. If you don't read it in the papers, you see it on TV. If you don't see it on TV, you hear it on the radio.
And the worst of it for Labour is that these are not Tory smears - they are well documented and evidenced by their own words and deeds. What a tragedy for the Labour party - and British politics in general - to have these people (and shamefully, a growing amount of apologists) as leaders of the main opposition.
A landslide defeat would be too good for them.
POLWAS.
Has "Strong and Stable" been consigned to the bin now?
CCHQ has finally awoken from its stupor, and maybe just in the nick of time.
When Guido posted yesterday at 5.30pm it had 1.3m views.
Now, just over 24 hours later, it now has 2.1m views.
https://order-order.com/2017/05/27/corbyn-ira-attack-ad-hits-1-million-views/
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