Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.

We get the point.

Southam is an intelligent poster who posts as the concerned everyman, but is actually an assiduous campaigner.

Labour should hire him.

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.

We get the point.

Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!

I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.

So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.

BannedInParis said:

Casino_Royale said:

BannedInParis said:

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

surbiton said:

SeanT said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.

Did I miss anything?

SeanT

How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?

You

I

Yes,

Surely

the

That's a meteoric Labour rise.

But, I remain to be convinced it will hold through to polling day.

yeah, there's three things going on.

1) Tory jump immediately after election called, seemingly totally at expense of UKIP.

followed by

2) Tory knocked back where they started after Manifesto (i.e removing the froth)

and, concurrently,

3) Labour squeezing Libs and UKIP (and Greens) consistently and hard. This last one has to run out sometime.

This is, of course, if the polls aren't recording nonsense from Labour (heavy weights of non2015 voters etc).

I think there's a non-zero chance of that tbh.

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.

We get the point.

Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!

I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.

So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.

kle4 said:

Casino_Royale said:

BannedInParis said:

Casino_Royale said:

BannedInParis said:

JosiasJessop said:

SeanT said:

surbiton said:

SeanT said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.

Did I miss anything?

SeanT

How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?

You

I

Yes,

Surely

the

That's a meteoric Labour rise.

But, I remain to be convinced it will hold through to polling day.

yeah, there's three things going on.

1) Tory jump immediately after election called, seemingly totally at expense of UKIP.

followed by

2) Tory knocked back where they started after Manifesto (i.e removing the froth)

and, concurrently,

3) Labour squeezing Libs and UKIP (and Greens) consistently and hard. This last one has to run out sometime.

This is, of course, if the polls aren't recording nonsense from Labour (heavy weights of non2015 voters etc).

I think there's a non-zero chance of that tbh.

Will all the young turnout? No. Of course not. They never do.

They did in Scotland, albeit stillnot as much as the oldies. Now, a GE is nowhere on that level but it is clearly possible to get them too, but will having cocked up by not voting in 2015 and 2016 finally spark enthused Corbynite youngsters to turnout?

Probably not, at least not significantly more than usual, but Corbyn sure hopes so.

Pulpstar said:

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.

Pulpstar said:

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

NickPalmer said:

SeanT said:

So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.

Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)

In my experience Facebook is most assiduously used by women in their 50s and above. The younger generation dropped off Facebook except for semi-formal posts when the older gernation came on.

I get a lot of posts about puppies, about Strong Women and heartwarming moral stories about treating people nicely.

Imagine my horror when, as a 35-year old, my teenage nephews told me that Facebook was for "old people".

I get babies, virtue-signalling, adverts, and holiday-boasting, mainly.

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

You've now said this, in basically the same way, about 3,892 times, I think.

We get the point.

Good. Think about it. Then tell us about what a mistake the Dementia tax was!

I have. And I agree with you. The real test for Theresa starts the day she begins negotiations. Her incompetence in the campaign does not augur well. I wish it were otherwise, but there we are. She's all we've got so we have to pray she's better at deal-making than electioneering.

So you can relax. Your point is made, and accepted.

I have quite a lot of confidence in David Davis, as it happens.

He seems well on top of his brief.

I would feel the same way about Fox if he wasn't such a self-promoter and egomanic.

I'm afraid to say I have little face in Boris Johnson in anything outside his columns and speeches. We really dodged a bullet there.

surbiton said:

SouthamObserver said:

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.

I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.

May is very mediocre. Her six years at the Home Office was a complete failure. She likes to compare herself with Thatcher. Like it or not, Thatcher believed in certain things.

May switches her position according to convenience.

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

Casino_Royale said:

Pulpstar said:

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.

Yes. I would also attack Corbyn's judgement in appointing the same to those key positions.

Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?

Because he doesn't want to reassure.

To be fair, every serious politician in Labour has refused to work with him, and has voted against him in leadership elections. So he was forced to choose Diane Abbott. Not that it makes her any better. She's probably cost 1m votes by herself.

The Marxist, IRA-loving McDonnell, however, was a deliberate selection by Corbyn right from the start.

So, he can be attacked on both judgement and competence.

May needs to call up Major and Cameron to vox-pop for her on TV.

Thing is, I think she's too stubborn and proud to do that, even they though would both willingly do their duty,

SouthamObserver said:

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.

I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.

Pulpstar said:

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.

CarlottaVance said:

Iain Dale:

So, to sum up, here’s what should happen to the Tory campaign…

1. Let Lynton be Lynton and give him total control
2. Brexit means Brexit, and it needs to be a dominant issue in the last 9 days
3. Widen the circle of ministers appearing on the media
4. Deploy Boris
5. Deploy Philip Hammond and take the fight to Labour on the economy
6. Leadership, leadership, leadership – make the contrast at every available opportunity
7. Constantly raise the prospect of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary
8. Ensure the country sees the Conservatives as the party of security and defence
9. Underplay the poll lead so as not to risk a low turnout
10. Address the issue of the women’s vote disappearing to Labour


http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2017/05/28/what-should-the-tories-do-to-get-their-campaign-back-on-track-answer-let-lynton-be-lynton-maybe-ditch-the-social-care-policy-altogether?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

RobD said:

SeanT said:

surbiton said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election

Con Facebook trick.

It's not a "trick", the Tories got in first, and secured the best Facebook slots in the right areas, and muscled Labour out of the arena. Boohoo.

What's that I hear? Oh, just the world's smallest violin.

jayfdee said:

Pulpstar said:

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.

Abbott needs no assistance. This mornings "Hairstyle" interview was hilarious.

SquareRoot said:

surbiton said:

SouthamObserver said:

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.

I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.

May is very mediocre. Her six years at the Home Office was a complete failure. She likes to compare herself with Thatcher. Like it or not, Thatcher believed in certain things.

May switches her position according to convenience.

just because you write things doesn't make them true.. if you want to know what failure is , look at the last 6 Labour Home Secs , all of them duds... the worst of which was Jacqui Smith.

Sean_F said:

But, while that's an acceptable stance to take if you're the leader of CND or the British Humanist Association, it is totally unsuitable for anyone who wishes to govern the UK.

RoyalBlue said:

nunu said:

We must strip citizenship of muslims who fight with isis etc or blowback like this happens:

https://twitter.com/RichardKerbaj/status/868749359449591808

We're not allowed to strip people of citizenship if it would leave them stateless. Human rights lawyers say so!

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.

I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.

She took a brave decision to tackle the care crisis during an election campaign, and it didn't work out well for her. The safe option would have been to pretend it doesn't exist, like most other politicians have been doing for the last 20 years.

SeanT said:

nunu said:

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

Casino_Royale said:

Pulpstar said:

jayfdee said:

Reference the FB attack video, Mrs Jayfdee had never heard anything about the IRA connection, she does now, and yes she is a Northern Oldie, who loves FB.
I rarely discuss politics with my friends, I want to remain friends, but I also suspect they have never heard of the IRA connection, but they do now.
The video is hard hitting, not sure I like this style of politics,but it is going to be increasingly dirty from here on in.

I think it is quite right that the views of the top three at the top of Labour are brought out into the open. Particularly McDonnell and Abbott.

Yes. I would also attack Corbyn's judgement in appointing the same to those key positions.

Why not reassure with appointing those who historically (and presently) disagree with him in those key positions of State?

Because he doesn't want to reassure.

To be fair, every serious politician in Labour has refused to work with him, and has voted against him in leadership elections. So he was forced to choose Diane Abbott. Not that it makes her any better. She's probably cost 1m votes by herself.

The Marxist, IRA-loving McDonnell, however, was a deliberate selection by Corbyn right from the start.

So, he can be attacked on both judgement and competence.

May needs to call up Major and Cameron to vox-pop for her on TV.

Thing is, I think she's too stubborn and proud to do that, even they though would both willingly do their duty,

John Major especially can and should attack Corbyn for his claim to support the peace process.

I think Major burnt his boats with his Remoaner denunciations, sadly. He made vivid and very personal attacks on members of May's Cabinet

If he went on TV he would be asked "do you still think Boris is a lying shite?" etc etc, and he would squirm.

So, sadly, no room for John M this time around.

Prodicus said:

New Tory Abbott ad up on Fb.
https://www.facebook.com/conservatives/videos/10155032929929279/

Casino_Royale said:

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

AndyJS said:

SouthamObserver said:

That the Tories can only win by throwing so much detritus at Corbyn (deserved as it is) is not setting things up well for them post-election. May went into this hoping to be endorsed as the strong and stable mother of the nation. She will exit having lost a lot of her sheen. That will make the blood, sweat and tears, we will fight them on the beaches, white cliffs of Dover Brexit that the Tory right has been counting on and preparing for much harder to sell to voters. She faces a hell of a time after 8th June.

I thought the main reason Theresa May called an election now was precisely so the Tories could throw detritus at Corbyn instead of waiting until 2020 and risking him being replaced.

I don't think they were counting on May getting so rattled.

She took a brave decision to tackle the care crisis during an election campaign, and it didn't work out well for her. The safe option would have been to pretend it doesn't exist, like most other politicians have been doing for the last 20 years.

And this is why.

Prodicus said:

New Tory Abbott ad up on Fb.
https://www.facebook.com/conservatives/videos/10155032929929279/

RobD said:

Prodicus said:

New Tory Abbott ad up on Fb.
https://www.facebook.com/conservatives/videos/10155032929929279/

CCHQ have woken up, finally!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Yorkcity said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Yorkcity said:

Tykejohnno said:

Yorkcity said:

SeanT said:

surbiton said:

SeanT said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

So, I just got back from a lovely 10-day holiday in northern Portugal.

Did I miss anything?

SeanT regretting sending in his postal vote for the Tories and wishing he had voted for Corbyn's Labour instead.

How many times did he change his mind whilst I was away?

You also missed me reacting like a flashed Victorian spinster to the horror of the Dementia Tax, and going into total meltdown - hysterical even by my standards - with me screaming THIS IS A FUCKING DISASTER for about six hours straight

All the loftier Tories on here told me to shut up and calm down, the policy was jolly sensible, and wouldn't change any votes, it was a great, seriously-minded manifesto, blah blah

Then the polls came out and it turned out I was entirely right, and they were entirely wrong. It was a fucking disaster.

I hope you also noticed that those PB Tories who supported the original manifesto commitment also supported the U-turn. To be fair to you, you did ask for its abandonment immediately.

Yes, and I was right then, too. The U-turn was popular, supported by 32%, and rejected by 20%, according to YouGov (I think)

May says it was not a u turn, and still will not tell us the cap. I hope you can explain .

Won't that be the main Question on QT leaders debate for the tories,soon to find out.

Tyke I think they are holding it in York. Since the BBC moved some of their operations to Salford they seem to use York a lot asking people their views etc. Do you think Huddersfield will make it to the premier league ?

It's being held in Cambridge.

Question time leaders special to be held in York on 02/06/2017 T May and J Corbyn 20:30 BBC 1.

Ah I was thinking about the seven way.

nunu said:

We must strip citizenship of muslims who fight with isis etc or blowback like this happens:

https://twitter.com/RichardKerbaj/status/868749359449591808

glw said:

RobD said:

Prodicus said:

New Tory Abbott ad up on Fb.
https://www.facebook.com/conservatives/videos/10155032929929279/

CCHQ have woken up, finally!

There must be a McDonnell video in the works too, and maybe one final video of all three of them.

Pulpstar said:

Wonder if Amber Rudd is being QT scenario wargamed right now ?

Pulpstar said:

Who will Labour send for the Question Time. McIRA would be my guess - surely the Tories couldn't be so lucky for it to be...

Prodicus said:

Lynton working on a Sunday. Impressive. He should take Mondays off in lieu, though.

SandyRentool said:

Nice to see a positive vision of the sunlit uplands we can expect from a Conservative government.

Has "Strong and Stable" been consigned to the bin now?

kle4 said:

Prodicus said:

Lynton working on a Sunday. Impressive. He should take Mondays off in lieu, though.

Embarrassingly, this post only just made me realise it was Sunday and not Saturday. Andrew Marr should have been my tip off.

Recidivist said:

SeanT said:

Ishmael_Z said:

nunu said:

NickPalmer said:

SeanT said:

So these ads will be going to northern oldsters and swing voters in key seats etc.

Are Northern oldsters typically keen users of social media? (It seems unlikely but maybe I'm just not up with current trends.)

More than 60% of the country is on fb, not just those with computers but of the whole country with Grand parents seeing the biggest growth.

It is spooky how ubiquitous and invisible at the same time a facebook campaign can be. In the 2010 election we could all laugh at the same socking great posters of DC's airbrushed forehead; now I wouldn't have known about the IRA attack ad, but for Guido, and there's no knowing that the 2.1m views aren't clocked up by Labour facebookbot farms rather than actual people. The grauniad is worried about it: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election

lol. That entire article is basically a big long whinge that the Tories are unexpectedly better and cleverer at using social media. Tough shit.

I think the point was that the Tories are better able to pay for it. That the Tories did better than average just where they needed to last time was good evidence that cheque books sway votes, whether it's Facebook ads or buses. That should be troubling to people other than regular Guardian readers.