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antifrank said:

RichardNabavi said:

Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Going to Labour Uncut you get a red hand, a cartoon aligator and a message saying "error 403 - forbidden"

Excellent way to shut down dissent!!

Melton Blue ‏@MeltonBlue 11m

Labour Uncut has been CUT & GONE after criticising Miliband handling of Falkirk: Labour hate debate http://labour-uncut.co.uk

A shame no one took a hard copy of the article...!

@TSE I had to study (at different times) The Nun's Priest's Tale and The Franklin's Tale. That was at least one more than necessary. On the plus side, I got a lot of Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet, The Taming Of The Shrew, Twelfth Night, Much Ado About Nothing, Hamlet, Macbeth and Richard III - I may be forgetting some as well). He simply writes on a different plane to any other English writer I have read.

antifrank said:

@TSE I had to study (at different times) The Nun's Priest's Tale and The Franklin's Tale. That was at least one more than necessary. On the plus side, I got a lot of Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet, The Taming Of The Shrew, Twelfth Night, Much Ado About Nothing, Hamlet, Macbeth and Richard III - I may be forgetting some as well). He simply writes on a different plane to any other English writer I have read.

I also did a lot of Shakepeare, his writings are simply unparalleled.

He is England's greatest writer (even better than Tom Knox)

Hell, even the Klingons tried to claim him as one of their own.

Slackbladder said:

Cyclefree said:

Anorak said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

"New York mayoral candidate Bill de Blasio's success should give hope to Miliband
The triumph of the radical Democrat proves that you can run from the left and win."

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/new-york-mayoral-candidate-bill-de-blasios-success-should-give-hope-miliband

Just like that other left wing success, Hollande.....

Francois is still in la merde, yet another year of breaking deficit rules, so austerity ahoy, or even - perish the thought - economic reform.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2013/11/05/20002-20131105ARTFIG00327-le-deficit-de-la-france-va-deraper-a-37-en-2015-selon-bruxelles.php

Does anyone know what the EU can actually do about this repeated budgetary rule-breaking? Not that there's a chance they will, obviously. France seems to just do what the hell it wants...

Probably because Germany's insistence on deflationary policies has brough half the European Continent to its knees. If France and the other Southern European countries got together, they could outvote Germany where it matters.

Then Germany could just stop its money... EU collapse.

He who pays the piper, calls the tune..

If the EU collapsed, what do you think would happen to Germany's economic miracle? Or its ability to export at prices others could afford to pay?

SimonStClare said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Going to Labour Uncut you get a red hand, a cartoon aligator and a message saying "error 403 - forbidden"

Excellent way to shut down dissent!!

Melton Blue ‏@MeltonBlue 11m

Labour Uncut has been CUT & GONE after criticising Miliband handling of Falkirk: Labour hate debate http://labour-uncut.co.uk

A shame no one took a hard copy of the article...!

The alligator is blue - must be the Torees wot done it.

TGOHF said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Shutting down Labour Uncut's website is very funny.
And very worrying.
All for a "non-story".

The Leverage squad strikes again....

The red tag team have been silent for a little while. We can be but thankful for small mercies.

Or perhaps they have been kidnapped and sent to Mordor.

RichardNabavi said:

Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

I studied Austen for English Lit. Along with Plath and Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams and Defoe. And I studied the Second World War in History; did course-work on it (are kids allowed to study that now?). And this was in 1994-1996, in a bog-standard comp in South Wales.

I also studied Media Studies for GCSE. The much maligned Media Studies! As dramatic as this sounds, I think Media Studies changed my outlook on life. Until I was 14/15 I'd been a typically naive teenager, and then a great teacher (the same teacher who taught me English A Level) took me on a course involving politics and propaganda and subliminal marketing and of how broadcast news is delivered in democracies and non-democracies. It was brilliant and we were all fascinated. We did our coursework on the Sun v Mirror price wars, during the time of Kelvin Mackenzie's reign at the Sun and John Smith's death, and of how the two polarised tabloids covered the direction of the Labour party.

Whenever I see Meeja Studies denigrated and dismissed I find it slightly annoying, because it was the one subject, along with History and English Lit, that has really stayed with me and had a lasting impact on my life. I had A's in French and Welsh languages and can barely speak a word of either, and I can't remember the last time I had a use for an algebraic equation, but tabloid propaganda and politics and news impacts us every day.

Big it up for Media Studies!

Douglas Carwell — "Why the 'experts' are wrong about immigration":

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100244371/why-the-experts-are-wrong-about-immigration/

tim said:

Lansley gets double top, first the health bill had to be "paused" now the lobbying bill.

@david_singleton: Govt pausing lobbying bill for 6 weeks so they can "consult widely". Begs question of why this never happened in first place

Is he trying to make IDS look competent?
Cameron's judgement in appointments is a joke.

He used to be Cameron's boss. There must be a word or a phrase to categorise the weirdness of that topsy turvy relationship. Having to boss your ex boss.

Lansley has always appeared all at sea to me. I'm sure his NHS ideas were excellent in theory, but the way he presented them I ended up taking our health insurance with my local vets.

TCPoliticalBetting said:

I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

In Australia there is more of a comination between fire service and ambulance service, which makes sense to me.

Since 1998 in Melbourne, the Metropolitan Fire Service respond to suspected cardiac or respiratory arrest medical emergencies.

What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.

CarlottaVance said:

SouthamObserver said:

antifrank said:

RichardNabavi said:

Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.

I was at secondary school when Labour were in office.....who was in office when you were at secondary school, if you don't mind saying?

I went through from 1969 to 1982 - so a mix.

When I compare my grammar school education to the one my kids had at their secondary school, we were unquestionably stronger on maths and foreign languages; I'd say their English and history courses were much more demanding than mine. Science I cannot comment on because I was beyond crap - I got a U in physics O level! The teachers at my school were one part inspirational, three parts going through the motions, with not much in the middle; these days there seems to be a lot in the middle, but far fewer at the extremes - but I imagine that's because teaching is so proscribed; teachers spend their whole lives having to second guess Ofsted.

dr_spyn said:

What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.

Atul Hatwal just arrived home to find a horses head laying on his pillow.

Yorkcity said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

RichardNabavi said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.

I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.

Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?

Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.

SouthamObserver said:

CarlottaVance said:

SouthamObserver said:

antifrank said:

RichardNabavi said:

Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.

I was at secondary school when Labour were in office.....who was in office when you were at secondary school, if you don't mind saying?

I went through from 1969 to 1982 - so a mix.

When I compare my grammar school education to the one my kids had at their secondary school, we were unquestionably stronger on maths and foreign languages; I'd say their English and history courses were much more demanding than mine. Science I cannot comment on because I was beyond crap - I got a U in physics O level! The teachers at my school were one part inspirational, three parts going through the motions, with not much in the middle; these days there seems to be a lot in the middle, but far fewer at the extremes - but I imagine that's because teaching is so proscribed; teachers spend their whole lives having to second guess Ofsted.

Your education sounds a lot like mine. And I was 1989 to 1996. I had a U in my Physics GCSE mock exam, lol. Just had no interest. None whatsoever. And I flew through Maths, English, History et al.

Top level Maths GCSE in 1994 was actually quite demanding. The year I did it - in Wales - there were complaints about the toughness of the course. I remember finding Geometry quite mind-bending, and I was one of the "cleverer" ones (not difficult in my school). Of all the exams the History case study was probably the most demanding bit. I can remember mine, writing 1500 words on post-Stalin Soviet Union. Something to do with 'the cult of the individual'. Quite hard. I was hoping, hoping, hoping to have a question on the Nazis, which we'd also studied at length. I found that much more interesting.

Yorkcity said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

In Australia there is more of a comination between fire service and ambulance service, which makes sense to me.

Since 1998 in Melbourne, the Metropolitan Fire Service respond to suspected cardiac or respiratory arrest medical emergencies.

That is how it works in the US as well. It has good and bad points, the main one being you can get situations where you a get a fully kitted out fire engine and 5 crew tied up at a relatively minor injury. If we were starting from scratch, then that'd probably be the way to go, but the Ambulance Service is too fully integrated to the NHS to really gain any benefit from moving to us now.

TwistedFireStopper said:

Yorkcity said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

RichardNabavi said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.

I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.

Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?

Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.

It does seem over the top to expect a 60 year old fire fighter to do the full range of duties.

Surely different to a civil servant retiring on a non contribution pension at the same age.

Yorkcity said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

Yorkcity said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

RichardNabavi said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.

I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.

Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?

Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.

It does seem over the top to expect a 60 year old fire fighter to do the full range of duties.

Surely different to a civil servant retiring on a non contribution pension at the same age.

One of the main sticking points is that you could be, say 57 or 58, your knee or hip is a bit dodgy, so you struggle to meet the fitness/capability target, and are forced to leave, 3 years shy of your full pension. The government proposal will mean that you get a massively reduced pension, and you can't claim that until 68. The governments own report recognised that over 60 % will struggle to meet the target.

philiph said:

Bobajob said:

@Carlotta @Phillip H

What would the role of the SNP be in an independent Scotland? I have often wondered if they'd end up disbanding (I.e. the centre-left and Tartan Tory factions going their separate ways)

I don't know, but the reason for the SNP would be passed. I expect it would morph into whatever position it thought it could continue in power. They won't want to disband the infrastructure they have built up as that is a pathway to power. They will seek power in some way.

Will take Labour a long time to get back to being anything like half decent so they would be in power for a fair bit I reckon.

TwistedFireStopper said:

TGOHF said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

Another strike date announced

http://www.fbu.org.uk/?p=8270#more-8270

The last one didn't seem to cause much disruption to be honest - and with everyone else not able to pick up a pension until 7 or 8 years later than the firemen, sympathy is scarce..

It's a bit of a technical strike campaign, to be honest, trying to not cause too much trouble to the general public, but maximising the problems for the Fire Authorities/government.

Actually had a lot of support on the picket line from the passing public-they start off ribbing us about retiring early, that sort of thing, but that gives us a chance to explain our case. Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots, and about the fitness issues.

It's gonna be a long haul, no doubt.

It might depend on local circumstances. During the strike on Monday burglars broke into one of my local fire stations and stole most of the equipment ( cutting devices,etc). Made headline news in the local paper.

TwistedFireStopper said:

Yorkcity said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

In Australia there is more of a comination between fire service and ambulance service, which makes sense to me.

Since 1998 in Melbourne, the Metropolitan Fire Service respond to suspected cardiac or respiratory arrest medical emergencies.

That is how it works in the US as well. It has good and bad points, the main one being you can get situations where you a get a fully kitted out fire engine and 5 crew tied up at a relatively minor injury. If we were starting from scratch, then that'd probably be the way to go, but the Ambulance Service is too fully integrated to the NHS to really gain any benefit from moving to us now.

Yes some good points you make there.

A friend of mine worked as a Paramedic in Melbourne Australia and he mentioned how the combination worked, he always thought the UK should consider the change.

Snigger....

Rob Marchant‏@rob_marchant27m
Next up on Comedy Central, Unite: "absolutely nothing new emerged...to undermine the finding of...the Labour Party” http://www.powerinaunion.co.uk/unite-reaction-to-labour-party-statement-on-falkirk-2/ …

TwistedFireStopper said:

malcolmg said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

malcolmg said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

More likely the supermarket getting grub in for the fry ups.

Nah, we use waitrose for our line caught marlin steaks and lemon grass couscous. Fry ups are bad for our fitness.

LOL, glad you took it the way it was meant. I am so glad I did not become a
fireman if there are no big fry ups after a night watching movies.

tim said:

antifrank said:

tim said:

Factcheck on the immigration figures

"Overall it’s a thumbs-up for immigrants, particularly for those from the EEA and for people who have come here since 2000."

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-immigrants-pay/16332


Theres one interesting finding that applies across most of the world.

The households with an immigrant and a native living together are in almost all countries the biggest net contributors to the economy.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2013/11/05_oecd.jpg

London is a city of immigrants. Even those living in London who are British nationals by birth usually have come from outside London originally.

No wonder it is the economic powerhouse of the country.

I agree.
And "mixed couples" are likely to be better educated and more open minded, travel more etc I guess, interesting stat that one (wonder why Germany isn't the same as much of the rest of the world)

5 best cities/% immigrants

New York/35%
London/35%
Sydney/40%
Abu Dhabi/80%

I guess a mixed couple have got at least two cultures and heritages to explore, whereas Wayne and Waynetta can get all their history and culture from EastEnders!

antifrank said:

I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

Loud and Very Loud.

I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

I really want to learn Aramaic.

in hour house my daughter has reached the age to become fluent in grunting.

Owen Jones and a football team size of supporters making themselves heard in Bob-land...

Owen Jones‏@OwenJones8429m
Westminster Bridge has been taken over! @pplsassembly pic.twitter.com/E4XkDevwS5

liked this one...

Gareth Baines‏@GABaines27m
@OwenJones84 @DamaineGorman @pplsassembly by all 12 of you?

and this...

David Aaronovitch‏@DAaronovitch6m
@OwenJones84 @pplsassembly People on buses and at bus stops trying to get home are harbouring warm feelings towards these flash protestors.

Trilingual,someone who speaks 3 languages,

Bi lingual,someone who speaks 2 languages,

Monolingual,British.

antifrank said:

I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

A Ulster-Scots halloween special from BBC NI.

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03g0c17/Stumpys_Brae/[/url]

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:

I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

Loud and Very Loud.

I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

I really want to learn Aramaic.

English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million

I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:

I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

Loud and Very Loud.

I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

I really want to learn Aramaic.

English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million

I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic

how's work?

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:

I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

Loud and Very Loud.

I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

I really want to learn Aramaic.

English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million

I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic

There must be something in our British Indian blood and heritage that makes so multilingual (and also gives us such awesome taste in music)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2013/11/05/the-real-reason-labour-is-petrified-of-re-opening-the-falkirk-inquiry/

José Manuel Barroso ‏@BarrosoEU 1h
In a globalised world, sovereignty pooled means power gained for every member of the EU, not power lost.

Must be a mistweet or mistranslation.

TwistedFireStopper said:

One of the main sticking points is that you could be, say 57 or 58, your knee or hip is a bit dodgy, so you struggle to meet the fitness/capability target, and are forced to leave, 3 years shy of your full pension. The government proposal will mean that you get a massively reduced pension, and you can't claim that until 68. The governments own report recognised that over 60 % will struggle to meet the target.

The retirement age for offshore workers is 65. I know two who are still working offshore in their early 70s - one of whom was on one of the choppers that went down last year.

In Norway the retirement age is 67 and that applies to offshore workers just as much as anyone else.

Doing a 12 hour shift on the rig floor in sub-zero temperatures with large pieces of metal weighing tens or hundreds of tonnes flying round and the whole place moving up and down and rolling from side to side by several feet every few seconds is hard enough when you are 30 or 40. I can only imagine what it must be like at 60. And again all offshore workers have to pass a medical including fitness tests or they lose their job. The only 'concession' to age is that once you pass 50 you have to have the medical every year instead of every 2 years.

Oh and we are our own fire/rescue/paramedic teams as well.

no tim , when the truth is pointed out to you, you attack the poster because that's all you have left in your armoury.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

antifrank said:

I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

Loud and Very Loud.

I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

I really want to learn Aramaic.

English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million

I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic

There must be something in our British Indian blood and heritage that makes so multilingual (and also gives us such awesome taste in music)

Perhaps you're right! (Except for your predilection for Steps, of course!)

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Going to Labour Uncut you get a red hand, a cartoon aligator and a message saying "error 403 - forbidden"

Excellent way to shut down dissent!!

At least they not misusing anti terror legislation this time.

dr_spyn said:

@Fenster - must be a new Labour slogan like.

Re-education, re-education, re-education.

LOL

Plus their other favorite Spend Spend Spend