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  • antifrank said:

    Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

    I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

    I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Is that 12% from you entirely - does your employer pay into it too ? I could pay 12% into mine, but I only pay 7.5% - my employer matches with 7.5% too. If you were me you could pay 12% and the employer would pay 7.5%. I think if I took the pot at 55 the annuity rate would be dreadful, on current pot maybe tuppence ha'penny a year ;)
  • Going to Labour Uncut you get a red hand, a cartoon aligator and a message saying "error 403 - forbidden"

    Excellent way to shut down dissent!!

    Melton Blue ‏@MeltonBlue 11m

    Labour Uncut has been CUT & GONE after criticising Miliband handling of Falkirk: Labour hate debate http://labour-uncut.co.uk

    A shame no one took a hard copy of the article...!
  • antifrank said:

    Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

    I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

    I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.
    I was at secondary school when Labour were in office.....who was in office when you were at secondary school, if you don't mind saying?

  • @TSE I had to study (at different times) The Nun's Priest's Tale and The Franklin's Tale. That was at least one more than necessary. On the plus side, I got a lot of Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet, The Taming Of The Shrew, Twelfth Night, Much Ado About Nothing, Hamlet, Macbeth and Richard III - I may be forgetting some as well). He simply writes on a different plane to any other English writer I have read.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited November 2013
    The Wife of Bath was loads better than Heart of Darkness!!! King Lear was the best Shakey I read.
  • antifrank said:

    @TSE I had to study (at different times) The Nun's Priest's Tale and The Franklin's Tale. That was at least one more than necessary. On the plus side, I got a lot of Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet, The Taming Of The Shrew, Twelfth Night, Much Ado About Nothing, Hamlet, Macbeth and Richard III - I may be forgetting some as well). He simply writes on a different plane to any other English writer I have read.

    I also did a lot of Shakepeare, his writings are simply unparalleled.

    He is England's greatest writer (even better than Tom Knox)

    Hell, even the Klingons tried to claim him as one of their own.


  • Shutting down Labour Uncut's website is very funny.
    And very worrying.
    All for a "non-story".
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326

    Cyclefree said:

    Anorak said:

    "New York mayoral candidate Bill de Blasio's success should give hope to Miliband
    The triumph of the radical Democrat proves that you can run from the left and win."

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/11/new-york-mayoral-candidate-bill-de-blasios-success-should-give-hope-miliband

    Just like that other left wing success, Hollande.....

    Francois is still in la merde, yet another year of breaking deficit rules, so austerity ahoy, or even - perish the thought - economic reform.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/2013/11/05/20002-20131105ARTFIG00327-le-deficit-de-la-france-va-deraper-a-37-en-2015-selon-bruxelles.php
    Does anyone know what the EU can actually do about this repeated budgetary rule-breaking? Not that there's a chance they will, obviously. France seems to just do what the hell it wants...


    Probably because Germany's insistence on deflationary policies has brough half the European Continent to its knees. If France and the other Southern European countries got together, they could outvote Germany where it matters.
    Then Germany could just stop its money... EU collapse.

    He who pays the piper, calls the tune..
    If the EU collapsed, what do you think would happen to Germany's economic miracle? Or its ability to export at prices others could afford to pay?

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

    Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Shutting down Labour Uncut's website is very funny.
    And very worrying.
    All for a "non-story".

    The Leverage squad strikes again....
  • Going to Labour Uncut you get a red hand, a cartoon aligator and a message saying "error 403 - forbidden"

    Excellent way to shut down dissent!!

    Melton Blue ‏@MeltonBlue 11m

    Labour Uncut has been CUT & GONE after criticising Miliband handling of Falkirk: Labour hate debate http://labour-uncut.co.uk

    A shame no one took a hard copy of the article...!
    The alligator is blue - must be the Torees wot done it.
  • I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?
  • TGOHF said:

    Shutting down Labour Uncut's website is very funny.
    And very worrying.
    All for a "non-story".

    The Leverage squad strikes again....
    The red tag team have been silent for a little while. We can be but thankful for small mercies.

    Or perhaps they have been kidnapped and sent to Mordor.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Imagine English literature classes in 100 years time...

    Oh Sir, not Eminem again sir....!!! so borin....'

  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

    I studied Austen for English Lit. Along with Plath and Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams and Defoe. And I studied the Second World War in History; did course-work on it (are kids allowed to study that now?). And this was in 1994-1996, in a bog-standard comp in South Wales.

    I also studied Media Studies for GCSE. The much maligned Media Studies! As dramatic as this sounds, I think Media Studies changed my outlook on life. Until I was 14/15 I'd been a typically naive teenager, and then a great teacher (the same teacher who taught me English A Level) took me on a course involving politics and propaganda and subliminal marketing and of how broadcast news is delivered in democracies and non-democracies. It was brilliant and we were all fascinated. We did our coursework on the Sun v Mirror price wars, during the time of Kelvin Mackenzie's reign at the Sun and John Smith's death, and of how the two polarised tabloids covered the direction of the Labour party.

    Whenever I see Meeja Studies denigrated and dismissed I find it slightly annoying, because it was the one subject, along with History and English Lit, that has really stayed with me and had a lasting impact on my life. I had A's in French and Welsh languages and can barely speak a word of either, and I can't remember the last time I had a use for an algebraic equation, but tabloid propaganda and politics and news impacts us every day.

    Big it up for Media Studies!
  • I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.

    Without getting into what is fair, the fact still remains that public-sector pension schemes are massively more generous than the schemes most taxpayers get. The full extent of the disparity is very little understood, especially by people who work in the public sector. It's the inflation protection in particular which is the killer.

    I'd hazard a guess that most people would think someone with half a million quid in their pension pot was a fat cat. In fact that buys you (if you retire at 60) about a £16.9K pension, assuming some inflation protection, a 50% spouse's pension, and no tax-free sum. For retiring at 55 it's about £14.8K on the same basis:

    http://www.hl.co.uk/pensions/annuities/annuity-best-buy-rates


  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    tim said:

    Lansley gets double top, first the health bill had to be "paused" now the lobbying bill.

    @david_singleton: Govt pausing lobbying bill for 6 weeks so they can "consult widely". Begs question of why this never happened in first place

    Is he trying to make IDS look competent?
    Cameron's judgement in appointments is a joke.

    A government that consults and listens to people?

    Not what you're used to, is it?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    tim said:

    Lansley gets double top, first the health bill had to be "paused" now the lobbying bill.

    @david_singleton: Govt pausing lobbying bill for 6 weeks so they can "consult widely". Begs question of why this never happened in first place

    Is he trying to make IDS look competent?
    Cameron's judgement in appointments is a joke.

    He used to be Cameron's boss. There must be a word or a phrase to categorise the weirdness of that topsy turvy relationship. Having to boss your ex boss.

    Lansley has always appeared all at sea to me. I'm sure his NHS ideas were excellent in theory, but the way he presented them I ended up taking our health insurance with my local vets.
  • tim said:

    @RichardNabavi

    Given that Gove spends half his time trying to establish schools that don't follow the national curriculum he sure spends a lot of time fiddling with it, why would he want to take Orwell, Austen and Dickens off the national curriculum, or is this like his posturing over Mary Seacole, just his own little circle giggling while they help Labour unwittingly?

    Polly, as usual, has got completely the wrong end of the stick. He's not taking Orwell, Austen and Dickens off the curriculum - quite the reverse, actually, as she reluctantly admits at one point in her rant:

    The new English literature exam will become more rigorous, concentrating on pre-20th century texts

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    In Australia there is more of a comination between fire service and ambulance service, which makes sense to me.

    Since 1998 in Melbourne, the Metropolitan Fire Service respond to suspected cardiac or respiratory arrest medical emergencies.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Is that 12% from you entirely - does your employer pay into it too ? I could pay 12% into mine, but I only pay 7.5% - my employer matches with 7.5% too. If you were me you could pay 12% and the employer would pay 7.5%. I think if I took the pot at 55 the annuity rate would be dreadful, on current pot maybe tuppence ha'penny a year ;)
    Look, I'm not arguing that it's not a good pension;), but we're not striking to keep it, we're just trying to negotiate something that meets the requirements of the job, relative to fitness, capability and is affordable.
    Hell, even the governments own report recognised that the proposed fitness/capability target was going to unattainable for around 60% of firefighters.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

    Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.
  • dr_spyn said:

    What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

    Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.

    Much as its fun to speculate about 'Leverage' I suspect its no more than a technical glitch.....

  • antifrank said:

    Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

    I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

    I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.
    I was at secondary school when Labour were in office.....who was in office when you were at secondary school, if you don't mind saying?

    I went through from 1969 to 1982 - so a mix.

    When I compare my grammar school education to the one my kids had at their secondary school, we were unquestionably stronger on maths and foreign languages; I'd say their English and history courses were much more demanding than mine. Science I cannot comment on because I was beyond crap - I got a U in physics O level! The teachers at my school were one part inspirational, three parts going through the motions, with not much in the middle; these days there seems to be a lot in the middle, but far fewer at the extremes - but I imagine that's because teaching is so proscribed; teachers spend their whole lives having to second guess Ofsted.

  • dr_spyn said:

    What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

    Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.

    It is probably a server issue, I once made PB unavailable when I was trying to publish a thread (and delete a draft thread) via my phone and hit the wrong button.

    It is isn't unusual for Labour uncut to run pieces critical of unite or Ed in the past, as past nighthawks will show.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    dr_spyn said:

    What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

    Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.

    Atul Hatwal just arrived home to find a horses head laying on his pillow.

  • Yorkcity said:

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

    Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?
    Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @Fenster - must be a new Labour slogan like.

    Re-education, re-education, re-education.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited November 2013

    antifrank said:

    Poor old Polly, she seems to think that schoolkids all study Jane Austen, George Orwell and Charles Dickens. If only!

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/gove-austen-orwell-dickens-die-out

    I was not set a single work by any of those three when I was at school in the late 1970s/early 1980s. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm not sure that having to study Chaucer was particularly worthwhile.

    I did all three. And Chaucer. He was my favourite.
    I was at secondary school when Labour were in office.....who was in office when you were at secondary school, if you don't mind saying?

    I went through from 1969 to 1982 - so a mix.

    When I compare my grammar school education to the one my kids had at their secondary school, we were unquestionably stronger on maths and foreign languages; I'd say their English and history courses were much more demanding than mine. Science I cannot comment on because I was beyond crap - I got a U in physics O level! The teachers at my school were one part inspirational, three parts going through the motions, with not much in the middle; these days there seems to be a lot in the middle, but far fewer at the extremes - but I imagine that's because teaching is so proscribed; teachers spend their whole lives having to second guess Ofsted.

    Your education sounds a lot like mine. And I was 1989 to 1996. I had a U in my Physics GCSE mock exam, lol. Just had no interest. None whatsoever. And I flew through Maths, English, History et al.

    Top level Maths GCSE in 1994 was actually quite demanding. The year I did it - in Wales - there were complaints about the toughness of the course. I remember finding Geometry quite mind-bending, and I was one of the "cleverer" ones (not difficult in my school). Of all the exams the History case study was probably the most demanding bit. I can remember mine, writing 1500 words on post-Stalin Soviet Union. Something to do with 'the cult of the individual'. Quite hard. I was hoping, hoping, hoping to have a question on the Nazis, which we'd also studied at length. I found that much more interesting.
  • By Michael Deacon, Parliamentary Sketchwriter.

    Banks, the press, the 2011 riots, care homes, the BBC… It’s a longstanding joke in Westminster that Ed Miliband’s first response to any scandal is to call for an independent inquiry. “Oh, Justine. Why does toast always land buttered-side down? We’ve got to have an open, judge-led inquiry.” And so on.

    Anyway, his critics are laughing on the other side of their faces now, because Mr Miliband has proved them wrong. After three years as Labour leader he’s finally found a scandal into which he doesn’t want an open, independent, judge-led inquiry. By sheer coincidence it happens to involve Labour, and the allegations of vote-rigging in its candidate selection in Falkirk.


    chortle.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10428669/Sketch-Ed-Miliband-loses-his-spirit-of-inquiry.html
  • Yorkcity said:

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    In Australia there is more of a comination between fire service and ambulance service, which makes sense to me.

    Since 1998 in Melbourne, the Metropolitan Fire Service respond to suspected cardiac or respiratory arrest medical emergencies.
    That is how it works in the US as well. It has good and bad points, the main one being you can get situations where you a get a fully kitted out fire engine and 5 crew tied up at a relatively minor injury. If we were starting from scratch, then that'd probably be the way to go, but the Ambulance Service is too fully integrated to the NHS to really gain any benefit from moving to us now.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Google Cache of that missing Labour Uncut story.

    http://preview.tinyurl.com/missinglabuncut

    Must be difficult to remove equine blood stains from pillowcases without modern detergents.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

    Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?
    Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.
    It does seem over the top to expect a 60 year old fire fighter to do the full range of duties.

    Surely different to a civil servant retiring on a non contribution pension at the same age.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    dr_spyn said:

    @Fenster - must be a new Labour slogan like.

    Re-education, re-education, re-education.

    :D

  • Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

    Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?
    Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.
    It does seem over the top to expect a 60 year old fire fighter to do the full range of duties.

    Surely different to a civil servant retiring on a non contribution pension at the same age.
    One of the main sticking points is that you could be, say 57 or 58, your knee or hip is a bit dodgy, so you struggle to meet the fitness/capability target, and are forced to leave, 3 years shy of your full pension. The government proposal will mean that you get a massively reduced pension, and you can't claim that until 68. The governments own report recognised that over 60 % will struggle to meet the target.

  • "On 30th July Donnelly Kinder solicitors sent to Mr Deans a statement that looked to clarify the position of the Kane family in regard to their Labour Party membership and an amended statement was sent by them to him the next day."

    Why would Unite (or Mr Deans) hire Belfast solicitors to address a legal issue in Scotland? Seems curious......at least they weren't London ones.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,502
    philiph said:

    Bobajob said:


    @Carlotta @Phillip H

    What would the role of the SNP be in an independent Scotland? I have often wondered if they'd end up disbanding (I.e. the centre-left and Tartan Tory factions going their separate ways)

    I don't know, but the reason for the SNP would be passed. I expect it would morph into whatever position it thought it could continue in power. They won't want to disband the infrastructure they have built up as that is a pathway to power. They will seek power in some way.
    Will take Labour a long time to get back to being anything like half decent so they would be in power for a fair bit I reckon.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

    Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?
    Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.
    It does seem over the top to expect a 60 year old fire fighter to do the full range of duties.

    Surely different to a civil servant retiring on a non contribution pension at the same age.
    Rubbish. Today's 60 year-olds are, in general, far fitter than 50 year olds were 30 or 40 years ago, yet they were expected to do the job at that age.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I wonder how much British aid to India and how many years worth, went to Mars today?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24826253
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,502

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    More likely the supermarket getting grub in for the fry ups.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080

    TGOHF said:

    Another strike date announced

    http://www.fbu.org.uk/?p=8270#more-8270

    The last one didn't seem to cause much disruption to be honest - and with everyone else not able to pick up a pension until 7 or 8 years later than the firemen, sympathy is scarce..
    It's a bit of a technical strike campaign, to be honest, trying to not cause too much trouble to the general public, but maximising the problems for the Fire Authorities/government.

    Actually had a lot of support on the picket line from the passing public-they start off ribbing us about retiring early, that sort of thing, but that gives us a chance to explain our case. Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots, and about the fitness issues.

    It's gonna be a long haul, no doubt.

    It might depend on local circumstances. During the strike on Monday burglars broke into one of my local fire stations and stole most of the equipment ( cutting devices,etc). Made headline news in the local paper.
  • AndyJS said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Most are surprised that we pay over 12% into our pension pots

    I think they'd be even more surprised at the difference between the pension you get for that contribution, and what people paying the same amount into a money-purchase scheme (i.e. most of the private sector) get.
    I tell them the facts. My pension is a matter of public record, I show them the details.
    You seem to forget (or perhaps just aren't really intetested in the situation) that we're not striking to keep the status quo-no one can seriously argue for that. We just want something that is a fair, workable, and affordable, for both sides.
    Firestopper who is covering on strike days ?

    Is it a combination of managers, retained fire fighters, and non union members ?
    Mostly officers, in our Brigade. The retained are striking, and pretty much everyone who isn't in the union are also striking, they feel that strongly about it.
    It does seem over the top to expect a 60 year old fire fighter to do the full range of duties.

    Surely different to a civil servant retiring on a non contribution pension at the same age.
    Rubbish. Today's 60 year-olds are, in general, far fitter than 50 year olds were 30 or 40 years ago, yet they were expected to do the job at that age.
    I don't doubt that, Andy, but the benchmark is the CoVox test, that over 60% of 60 year olds will fail, at a level of VO2 42 .

  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    In Australia there is more of a comination between fire service and ambulance service, which makes sense to me.

    Since 1998 in Melbourne, the Metropolitan Fire Service respond to suspected cardiac or respiratory arrest medical emergencies.
    That is how it works in the US as well. It has good and bad points, the main one being you can get situations where you a get a fully kitted out fire engine and 5 crew tied up at a relatively minor injury. If we were starting from scratch, then that'd probably be the way to go, but the Ambulance Service is too fully integrated to the NHS to really gain any benefit from moving to us now.

    Yes some good points you make there.

    A friend of mine worked as a Paramedic in Melbourne Australia and he mentioned how the combination worked, he always thought the UK should consider the change.

  • malcolmg said:

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    malcolmg said:

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    More likely the supermarket getting grub in for the fry ups.
    Nah, we use waitrose for our line caught marlin steaks and lemon grass couscous. Fry ups are bad for our fitness.

  • Snigger....

    Rob Marchant‏@rob_marchant27m
    Next up on Comedy Central, Unite: "absolutely nothing new emerged...to undermine the finding of...the Labour Party” http://www.powerinaunion.co.uk/unite-reaction-to-labour-party-statement-on-falkirk-2/
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    The link to this story no longer works, just tells me its forbidden. Has the article been taken down for some reason?
    dr_spyn said:

    Non story - nothing to see - what was that Len, leverage good, no inquiry, Murdoch smears, Tory press after us, Westminster bubble - change The Record...

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2013/11/05/the-real-reason-labour-is-petrified-of-re-opening-the-falkirk-inquiry/

    Looks as if Labour Uncut are worried about PMQs for some odd reasons due to Falkirk.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,502

    malcolmg said:

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    malcolmg said:

    I did read somewhere that that fire service spends more of its time attending car accidents than fires in properties. True?

    More likely the supermarket getting grub in for the fry ups.
    Nah, we use waitrose for our line caught marlin steaks and lemon grass couscous. Fry ups are bad for our fitness.

    LOL, glad you took it the way it was meant. I am so glad I did not become a
    fireman if there are no big fry ups after a night watching movies.
  • tim said:

    Factcheck on the immigration figures

    "Overall it’s a thumbs-up for immigrants, particularly for those from the EEA and for people who have come here since 2000."

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-immigrants-pay/16332


    Theres one interesting finding that applies across most of the world.

    The households with an immigrant and a native living together are in almost all countries the biggest net contributors to the economy.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2013/11/05_oecd.jpg

    London is a city of immigrants. Even those living in London who are British nationals by birth usually have come from outside London originally.

    No wonder it is the economic powerhouse of the country.
  • tim said:

    antifrank said:

    tim said:

    Factcheck on the immigration figures

    "Overall it’s a thumbs-up for immigrants, particularly for those from the EEA and for people who have come here since 2000."

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-immigrants-pay/16332


    Theres one interesting finding that applies across most of the world.

    The households with an immigrant and a native living together are in almost all countries the biggest net contributors to the economy.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2013/11/05_oecd.jpg

    London is a city of immigrants. Even those living in London who are British nationals by birth usually have come from outside London originally.

    No wonder it is the economic powerhouse of the country.
    I agree.
    And "mixed couples" are likely to be better educated and more open minded, travel more etc I guess, interesting stat that one (wonder why Germany isn't the same as much of the rest of the world)

    5 best cities/% immigrants

    New York/35%
    London/35%
    Sydney/40%
    Abu Dhabi/80%









    I guess a mixed couple have got at least two cultures and heritages to explore, whereas Wayne and Waynetta can get all their history and culture from EastEnders!
  • I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.
  • antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

    Loud and Very Loud.

    I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

    English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

    Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

    I really want to learn Aramaic.
  • antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    We have 3 languages in our house, English, bad and teen.
  • in hour house my daughter has reached the age to become fluent in grunting.
  • our house even
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited November 2013
    Owen Jones and a football team size of supporters making themselves heard in Bob-land...

    Owen Jones‏@OwenJones8429m
    Westminster Bridge has been taken over! @pplsassembly pic.twitter.com/E4XkDevwS5

    liked this one...

    Gareth Baines‏@GABaines27m
    @OwenJones84 @DamaineGorman @pplsassembly by all 12 of you?

    and this...

    David Aaronovitch‏@DAaronovitch6m
    @OwenJones84 @pplsassembly People on buses and at bus stops trying to get home are harbouring warm feelings towards these flash protestors.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Straight from the horses mouth:

    José Manuel Barroso ‏@BarrosoEU
    Moving towards political union, step by step, starting with completion of banking union. Germany has an imminently crucial role in this.

    I wonder if even Germany wants this.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Trilingual,someone who speaks 3 languages,

    Bi lingual,someone who speaks 2 languages,

    Monolingual,British.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Have we got to the bottom of this ice-pick assassination of our comrades at Labour Uncut
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    A Ulster-Scots halloween special from BBC NI.

    [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03g0c17/Stumpys_Brae/[/url]

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    I only speak one language

    The language of love
  • Bobajob said:

    Have we got to the bottom of this ice-pick assassination of our comrades at Labour Uncut

    Uncut is an anagram of Owen Jones
  • MikeK said:

    I wonder how much British aid to India and how many years worth, went to Mars today?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24826253

    Chickenfeed, Godfrey!

    300 million pounds per year divided by 1 billion people = roughly 30p per Indian per year.
  • antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

    Loud and Very Loud.

    I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

    English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

    Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

    I really want to learn Aramaic.
    English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million :)

    I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic
  • So tim got demolished by Sean Fear and Richard Tyndall on immigration.

    Not a surprise.

    But what is surprising is why PB's greatest advocate for the benefits of immigration hides away in 99% white suburbia when he could experience the benefits of the multicultural society he so lauds.

    Or perhaps tim could become an immigrant himself.

    Just imagine how much tim's posting might increase if he moved to Germany or better still an alcohol free country. With no wine to sell tim could devote all day to PB ;-)
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

    Loud and Very Loud.

    I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

    English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

    Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

    I really want to learn Aramaic.
    English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million :)

    I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic
    how's work?
  • So tim got demolished by Sean Fear and Richard Tyndall on immigration.

    Not a surprise.

    But what is surprising is why PB's greatest advocate for the benefits of immigration hides away in 99% white suburbia when he could experience the benefits of the multicultural society he so lauds.

    Or perhaps tim could become an immigrant himself.

    Just imagine how much tim's posting might increase if he moved to Germany or better still an alcohol free country. With no wine to sell tim could devote all day to PB ;-)

    Same reason Billy Bragg lives in Burton Bradstock
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972
    edited November 2013

    antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

    Loud and Very Loud.

    I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

    English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

    Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

    I really want to learn Aramaic.
    English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million :)

    I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic
    There must be something in our British Indian blood and heritage that makes so multilingual (and also gives us such awesome taste in music)
  • Thinking about the living wage etc debate.

    Why don't the Conservatives make use of Labour increasing income tax on the low paid in 2008 ?

    A few images of the Eds cheering a budget which took money from the low paid so that bankers could get millions in payoffs would be rather effective.

    But the Conservatives have never made use of the things Labour is vulnerable on - immigration and deindustrialisation between 2000 and 2010, green taxes, excessive household debt, increasing inequality, falling home ownership. Even EdM's embarrassing role planning Britain's long-term economic future during 2004-5 has been ignored.

    And why haven't they made use of such things ?

    Because the Cameroons don't see anything wrong with these things either - to them summer 2007 is the land of paradise they want to return to. Not the festering wound which needed treating.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    So tim got demolished by Sean Fear and Richard Tyndall on immigration.

    Not a surprise.

    But what is surprising is why PB's greatest advocate for the benefits of immigration hides away in 99% white suburbia when he could experience the benefits of the multicultural society he so lauds.

    Or perhaps tim could become an immigrant himself.

    Just imagine how much tim's posting might increase if he moved to Germany or better still an alcohol free country. With no wine to sell tim could devote all day to PB ;-)

    You wouldn't be suggesting that tim was offering a solution to others that did not affect his "arrangements", now would you..., I mean that would make him a fecking hypocrite, something he derides others for on an almost daily basis.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    José Manuel Barroso ‏@BarrosoEU 1h
    In a globalised world, sovereignty pooled means power gained for every member of the EU, not power lost.

    Must be a mistweet or mistranslation.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    My family was sort of mixed. But they had a crossover - my very conventionally-reared British dad wanted a bit of exotic colour, and my very colourful Russian mum (who had immigrated from Leninist Russia and Nazi-threatened Danzig) wanted a nice peaceful English home. She declined to teach me Russian, saying she knew too many families where the kids grew up spekaing a jumble of different languages and never really sorting it out. I think she was wrong about that, but over the years I got pretty multicultural anyway as we moved around.



    But what is surprising is why PB's greatest advocate for the benefits of immigration hides away in 99% white suburbia when he could experience the benefits of the multicultural society he so lauds.

    Or perhaps tim could become an immigrant himself.

    Just imagine how much tim's posting might increase if he moved to Germany or better still an alcohol free country. With no wine to sell tim could devote all day to PB ;-)

    Can't speak for tim but I've spent half my life as an immigrant in other countries and currently live in an area where white English-born people are probably a minority. It doesn't bother or excite me, it's just a not very interesting fact - I still choose friends by common interests rather than who happens to live next door. That's a fairly typical urban attitude, I think - in a small community people are more prone to feel they want to know and socialise with everyone, but in London that's clearly not practical.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,688
    edited November 2013



    One of the main sticking points is that you could be, say 57 or 58, your knee or hip is a bit dodgy, so you struggle to meet the fitness/capability target, and are forced to leave, 3 years shy of your full pension. The government proposal will mean that you get a massively reduced pension, and you can't claim that until 68. The governments own report recognised that over 60 % will struggle to meet the target.

    The retirement age for offshore workers is 65. I know two who are still working offshore in their early 70s - one of whom was on one of the choppers that went down last year.

    In Norway the retirement age is 67 and that applies to offshore workers just as much as anyone else.

    Doing a 12 hour shift on the rig floor in sub-zero temperatures with large pieces of metal weighing tens or hundreds of tonnes flying round and the whole place moving up and down and rolling from side to side by several feet every few seconds is hard enough when you are 30 or 40. I can only imagine what it must be like at 60. And again all offshore workers have to pass a medical including fitness tests or they lose their job. The only 'concession' to age is that once you pass 50 you have to have the medical every year instead of every 2 years.

    Oh and we are our own fire/rescue/paramedic teams as well.



  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    I'm finding this Toronto mayor story jawdroppingly hilarious.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    no tim , when the truth is pointed out to you, you attack the poster because that's all you have left in your armoury.

  • Stop Hammer New Thread time
  • antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

    Loud and Very Loud.

    I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

    English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

    Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

    I really want to learn Aramaic.
    English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million :)

    I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic
    There must be something in our British Indian blood and heritage that makes so multilingual (and also gives us such awesome taste in music)
    Perhaps you're right! (Except for your predilection for Steps, of course!)
  • philiph said:

    antifrank said:

    I live in a bilingual household: English and Ulster Scots.

    I understand there's two types of Ulster Scots Accents?

    Loud and Very Loud.

    I live in a household where the following languages are spoken.

    English, Urdu, Punjabi and Scouse (well plastic Scouse)

    Plus I can speak French, German, Latin and Hellenistic Greek.

    I really want to learn Aramaic.
    English and Malayalam (that's one of the rarer Indian languages, spoken by "only" 35 million :)

    I can also speak French and German, and I taught myself how to read Greek and Russian Cyrillic
    how's work?
    Going OK thanks, I haven't used the old NMR spectral analysis software in ages but it's just like riding a bike... or maybe a unicycle :)
  • Carola said:

    I'm finding this Toronto mayor story jawdroppingly hilarious.

    My wife is going Xmas shopping in Toronto this weekend, if the mayor is anything to go by it sounds a great place!


  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    tim said:

    tim said:

    antifrank said:

    tim said:

    Factcheck on the immigration figures

    "Overall it’s a thumbs-up for immigrants, particularly for those from the EEA and for people who have come here since 2000."

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-immigrants-pay/16332


    Theres one interesting finding that applies across most of the world.

    The households with an immigrant and a native living together are in almost all countries the biggest net contributors to the economy.

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2013/11/05_oecd.jpg

    London is a city of immigrants. Even those living in London who are British nationals by birth usually have come from outside London originally.

    No wonder it is the economic powerhouse of the country.
    I agree.
    And "mixed couples" are likely to be better educated and more open minded, travel more etc I guess, interesting stat that one (wonder why Germany isn't the same as much of the rest of the world)

    5 best cities/% immigrants

    New York/35%
    London/35%
    Sydney/40%
    Abu Dhabi/80%









    I guess a mixed couple have got at least two cultures and heritages to explore, whereas Wayne and Waynetta can get all their history and culture from EastEnders!
    There are also big advantages in bilingual households

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/10/multilingualism-0?fsrc=scn/tw_ec/johnson_bringing_up_baby_bilingual

    Which also helps to explain Londons education results advancing so quickly, among poorer families this and higher education emphasis appear to trump material status.
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/apr/26/warning-headteachers-tutoring-boom

    50% of pupils in London having tutors is because the schools are so good.

    Or not.

    "Parents, such as Batool, from north-west London, who does not want to give her full name, said many in her social circle now paid for tuition. "Private tutoring has become normal," she said. "Parents are more aware of the failings of the state education system and the importance of which university your son or daughter goes to than they used to be.""
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Going to Labour Uncut you get a red hand, a cartoon aligator and a message saying "error 403 - forbidden"

    Excellent way to shut down dissent!!

    At least they not misusing anti terror legislation this time.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Fenster said:

    dr_spyn said:

    What happened to that Labour Uncut story?

    Almost took screen grab, but I guess someone has a copy...but it does look very odd.

    Atul Hatwal just arrived home to find a horses head laying on his pillow.

    sending Margaret Beckett round seems overkill...........
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    dr_spyn said:

    @Fenster - must be a new Labour slogan like.

    Re-education, re-education, re-education.

    LOL

    Plus their other favorite Spend Spend Spend
This discussion has been closed.