Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.
Yes I respect JackW he could have refrained for a time I feel.
As others have said, the purpose of the site is betting on politics. Jack and anyone else is perfectly entitled to discuss how the events might impact the election. That might sound cold but the reality is that the election campaign *will* look completely different after last night. Some issues will take on a salience they didn't have before; others will fade from view. Candidates to be PM will be judged by different standards. This all matters and shouldn't be off-limits just because some might view it as a bit tasteless.
I didn't plan on posting much today precisely because I do find that analysis tasteless but I strongly defend the right of those who want to do so, providing that they do so in the right place. And the right place is here.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.
Yes I respect JackW he could have refrained for a time I feel.
As others have said, the purpose of the site is betting on politics. Jack and anyone else is perfectly entitled to discuss how the events might impact the election. That might sound cold but the reality is that the election campaign *will* look completely different after last night. Some issues will take on a salience they didn't have before; others will fade from view. Candidates to be PM will be judged by different standards. This all matters and shouldn't be off-limits just because some might view it as a bit tasteless.
I didn't plan on posting much today precisely because I do find that analysis tasteless but I strongly defend the right of those who want to do so, providing that they do so in the right place. And the right place is here.
Considering the amount of exposure TM's speech will get today, I would suggest that the Tory majority is likely to go up. All depends on Corbyn's response.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
I did not wish to immediately discuss the election when I heard about the events, nor did I think it would be right to do any betting and take advantage of the markets. It is very likely this will have a sizeable impact on the election outcome, but there is always a small chance (as I assume happened with Jo Cox) that it won't.
Juncker: "We will work side by side... to fight back against those who seek to destroy our way of life"
I can't imagine that anybody or anything is likely to threaten the unelected, exceedingly pleasant way of life you have succeeded in carving out for yourself Mr. Juncker, all at the expense of the EU taxpayers.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
I'm getting a bit sick of that response. I'd like to see some sort of action. It's also irritating to hear that the person was known to the police. Why wasn't he prevented from acting? I don't know the answers but at times like this it's difficult not to say I WANT SOMETHING DONE.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
We didn't stop a referendum after an MP(!) was killed just days before. The coverage of this will fade into the background over the week.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
Yes that would have been a good pivot, but I think May has learnt her lesson about improvising policies on the hoof.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
Suppose you cancel it and re-arrange for the Autumn and then there is another terrorist attack shortly before the re-arranged election. Do you then keep cancelling it again?
Unfortunately, with most campaigns taking 6 weeks there is always at least a moderate likelihood of some terrible event interrupting it.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
^^^ this.
We need to shift the paradigm - a politician that suggests a more radical approach may see their support surge.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
Do you want the election to be cancelled because you now believe it will disadvantage the party you support even further if it goes ahead? Legitimate quesion, I believe.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
Of course nothing is going to change, Mr. Rising, and I am not sure that it should. We have to accept that the police and intelligence people are already doing their best, what else could be done. Keep calm and carry on is a great motto.
That politicians of all stripes feel it necessary to trot out all the usual banalities and platitudes is just a fact of modern society.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
No way. If it was on a 9/11 scale then yes, if it were a day or two before then yes. Otherwise it would be a sad admission that terrorists can affect all those things integral to our civilised society, and in particular our democracy. Investigations should carry on, mourning should take place but then campaigning should continue on Thursday in my opinion, all be it with a significantly changed tone for the following days.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
What a nonsense argument.
Anyway you can lay all the 1.03 you like if you think it isn't going ahead.
I did not wish to immediately discuss the election when I heard about the events, nor did I think it would be right to do any betting and take advantage of the markets. It is very likely this will have a sizeable impact on the election outcome, but there is always a small chance (as I assume happened with Jo Cox) that it won't.
The Jo Cox murder probably had a significant effect on the polls, if not the underlying support, in that it prompted a section of Leave support to go 'shy'. That in turn led the campaign teams to assume, wrongly, that Remain was leading in the run-up to the vote and influenced decisions taken. The murder might not have had much impact directly but it could well have done indirectly.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
^^^ this.
We need to shift the paradigm - a politician that suggests a more radical approach may see their support surge.
Weneed to build a computer, a system that monitors everyone and can predict acts of terrorism.
As a Mancunian I am appalled that my city has been attacked again. I am equally appalled, on this day that the GE has been suspended, is the fact that both BBC Victoria Derbyshire and SKY Kay Burley, are interviewing "Labour candidates" Lucy Powell and Graham Stringer. Both interviewers making it quite clear they are "Labour" candidates. This is absolutely out of order.
I wouldn't overworry it, the PM has de facto high visibility on days like today (It simply is). I doubt Derbyshire/Burley introducing Powell and Stringer as Labour candidate will make much odds.
Yes, in ordinary times they'd interview the local MPs (I.e. this pair) - unfortunately, with parliament suspended, they can't call them that. Just unfortunate semantics, really.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
Even if you know what you are going to do about it, you don't announce it as those who carry out these attacks will listen and potentially change their tactics to incorporate the new information.
As such all you can say is platitudes - you leave the actual strategy and any changes to that strategy for elsewhere....
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
^^^ this.
We need to shift the paradigm - a politician that suggests a more radical approach may see their support surge.
They would indeed. Strip all those who fought with isis of citizenship and hand them over to Assad for a start.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
There will not be that backdrop for a simple reason: terrorist attacks are so common these days that the media will move on even from this one - when at least 20 people, mainly children, have been killed - in the next few days. By the end of this week or next Tuesday at the latest the agenda will be about the election again. That is an indictment of how living under the terrorist yoke is the new normal, atrocities are basically factored into the narrative.
I say again: what is going to be done? That's what I wanted to hear a bit of in May's speech: some sense that the root causes are going to be addressed.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
^^^ this.
We need to shift the paradigm - a politician that suggests a more radical approach may see their support surge.
Weneed to build a computer, a system that monitors everyone and can predict acts of terrorism.
I'm sure there is not simple answer - but some outside the box thinking is required.
Just to note: the police have not said that this was a suicide bombing (although they have said that a single attacker was carrying an IED, detonated it, and died at the arena), nor have they said that a nail bomb was used. Rather than getting categorised as a stupid response - and there have been many - the observation that some people may have died in a stampede, as also happened at the Bataclan in Paris, is thoroughly responsible. That that can happen should be made better known by the police and other public services. Better still, put soldiers at any large gathering of people. Defend this country. Bombing Raqqa and Mosul doesn't seem to be achieving much in that direction.
I should add that security in Britain at many events and on some parts of the railway system is absolute crap. Although the advice is that people should report anything suspicious to "any member of staff", in reality some uniformed members of staff appear to have had no proper training and can even pooh-pooh those who report suspicious behaviour. (The response I got from a railway employee when I reported someone putting a package into an unlocked locker which he left open and to which he apparently had no key still chills me to the bone.)
All too many employees with a supposed security role (which on the railways for example includes all identifiable members of staff) are jobsworths who have little time for "members of the public", while at some entertainment and sporting events security is provided by boneheaded bouncers who enjoy boasting about meetings they have had with anti-terrorist police without appearing actually to have learnt much. There needs to be some education and some attitude readjustment. And not just among security personnel but also among ordinary people, for whom "just carry on" is the wrong message. There is a role here for the army.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
^^^ this.
We need to shift the paradigm - a politician that suggests a more radical approach may see their support surge.
Weneed to build a computer, a system that monitors everyone and can predict acts of terrorism.
I'm sure there is not simple answer - but some outside the box thinking is required.
Remote sensing of explosives, somehow? Maybe to detect particulates on clothing, which would be visible to sensors.
In his case yes. He is a terrorist supporter and enabler, plain and simple. Remember he even wrote a reference letter for an ISIS fund raiser so they got released from jail.
My father worked in Manchester when the IRA flattened the place. I am more than a bit angry this morning.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
Keep calm and carry on is a great motto.
To be used in the event of an invasion.
Far better than the traditional "There has been a bomb in Cyprus so do not go near London" !
May is similar to Cameron in that she's very good at times of national crisis and emergency but is possibly prone to complacency and making silly mistakes when everything is calm?
Damned decent of you not to immediately question the motives of a debutant poster.
A sign of the times.
Edit: Seriously though, I do try to welcome posters on their first post.
Yeah, but that one was so clearly insidious you might have made an exception to the rule.
Hi Peter
Not insidious, if aimed at me. The knowledge and intellect on here makes that claim a little flimsy. The point was that people on all levels really need to be careful how they respond in one circumstance in case that response is then justifiably thrown back at them at a later date. Ask Colin Parry. I don't know where you are based but I can assure you that in the North West it is a very subdued day and lots of people are very upset.
I might add I look forward to your posts, very insightful, most of the time :-)
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
I'm getting a bit sick of that response. I'd like to see some sort of action. It's also irritating to hear that the person was known to the police. Why wasn't he prevented from acting? I don't know the answers but at times like this it's difficult not to say I WANT SOMETHING DONE.
At the time of the Rigby murder, exactly four years ago today, it was suggested that the security services had the resources to watch a few hundred people people around the clock. We have been told that 850 UK citizens that went to fight with ISIS are returning home (to no mandatory reception), add in the thousands of other malcontents they need to watch, hate preachers, radicals that have "come to their attention" and it is plain they have no realistic chance of watching everyone. Indeed some estimates suggest they would need to increase from their current 4,000 staff, to over 100,000 staff to stand a chance of watching everyone that might be a serious trouble maker.
It said the agency, now 3,500-strong, would need hundreds of thousands of officers for comprehensive coverage.
The committee said Khan and fellow bomber Shehzad Tanweer were categorised as 'desirable' targets after they were overheard discussing fraud and travel to Pakistan.
But resources were so stretched agents could not even assess whether 'desirable' targets should be examined in more detail unless they were known to be plotting an attack.
The MPs said: 'They had to prioritise even within this essential group. Therefore a "desirable" target did not even get close to attracting a share of the limited resources available.'
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
Do you know what the purpose of terrorism is? The clue is in the name.
Man up.
(Edit - cancelling the election, presumably under the Emergency Provisions Act, would be one of the most profoundly undemocratic and unjustifiable actions taken by any government of this country. It would set an appalling precedent).
May is similar to Cameron in that she's very good at times of national crisis and emergency but is possibly prone to complacency and making silly mistakes when everything is calm?
Cameron saw the job of PM as akin to CEO of an established big brand. In that role he was very good when it came to representing it at home and abroad and trusted his board to run the various departments.
I was say the flaw was that PM is more than CEO of a company.
In his case yes. He is a terrorist supporter and enabler, plain and simple. Remember he even wrote a reference letter for an ISIS fund raiser so they got released from jail.
My father worked in Manchester when the IRA flattened the place. I am more than a bit angry this morning.
Today was the first time I cried on hearing about a terrorist attack and it's aftermath. The thought of dads dropping their daughters off for the concert and not being able to take them home. No words.
Good but when she said "this is not the first time" etc I suddenly hoped that she was going to break the mould and give a line about what is actually going to be done to sort this out, but then came the usual platitudes etc. Nothing to see here.
I'm getting a bit sick of that response. I'd like to see some sort of action. It's also irritating to hear that the person was known to the police. Why wasn't he prevented from acting? I don't know the answers but at times like this it's difficult not to say I WANT SOMETHING DONE.
At the time of the Rigby murder, exactly four years ago today, it was suggested that the security services had the resources to watch a few hundred people people around the clock. We have been told that 850 UK citizens that went to fight with ISIS are returning home (to no mandatory reception), add in the thousands of other malcontents they need to watch, hate preachers, radicals that have "come to their attention" and it is plain they have no realistic chance of watching everyone. Indeed some estimates suggest they would need to increase from their current 4,000 staff, to over 100,000 staff to stand a chance of watching everyone that might be a serious trouble maker.
It said the agency, now 3,500-strong, would need hundreds of thousands of officers for comprehensive coverage.
The committee said Khan and fellow bomber Shehzad Tanweer were categorised as 'desirable' targets after they were overheard discussing fraud and travel to Pakistan.
But resources were so stretched agents could not even assess whether 'desirable' targets should be examined in more detail unless they were known to be plotting an attack.
The MPs said: 'They had to prioritise even within this essential group. Therefore a "desirable" target did not even get close to attracting a share of the limited resources available.'
This is a bit different, though, as the use of explosives implies organisation and planning, almost certainly a wider conspiracy, and buying components or smuggling explosives. This is what MI5 ought to be able to keep an eye on. It's not just some lone nutter grabbing a knife out of the kitchen drawer on his way out.
I have read the responses to my suggestion the election be cancelled full stop. It is what I would generally expect people to say in the immediate aftermath BUT we do not know the reasoning of the bombing, it might be unconnected, but the next week or two will be the families grief, funerals etc, highly publicized, we do not want to be campaigning against that backdrop or do we? Not for me I am afraid. As I said an unecessary election anyway and the campaign anyway has been pretty unedifying. The new Parliament would have the MPs sitting at the time Parliament ended , guess some of the retirees would change their minds and a few by elections to fill other vacancies - also the summer recess is fast approaching anyway. Time to take stock and draw breath. Cancel the election and divert all energies to identifying the sources of the attack/s.
Have a think about the consequences of that in terms of future actions.
I can't remember darker serendipity than the Sun's front page today.
Corbyn's unsavoury past associations and sympathies were always going to come back and bite him very hard indeed on his backside. I cannot now see how any decent Labour supporter can back this wretched man.
In his case yes. He is a terrorist supporter and enabler, plain and simple. Remember he even wrote a reference letter for an ISIS fund raiser so they got released from jail.
My father worked in Manchester when the IRA flattened the place. I am more than a bit angry this morning.
Today was the first time I cried on hearing about a terrorist attack and it's aftermath. The thought of dads dropping their daughters off for the concert and not being able to take them home. No words.
The women who takes my Tuesday morning gym class is a Mancunian....normally incredibly bubbly, great motivator, runs really good classes, today she was subdued, clearly upset and angry.
In his case yes. He is a terrorist supporter and enabler, plain and simple. Remember he even wrote a reference letter for an ISIS fund raiser so they got released from jail.
My father worked in Manchester when the IRA flattened the place. I am more than a bit angry this morning.
Today was the first time I cried on hearing about a terrorist attack and it's aftermath. The thought of dads dropping their daughters off for the concert and not being able to take them home. No words.
You could see the pain on Clive Myrie's face last night. It can never be easy to report news like that.
Mr. L, perhaps. A lone individual can get through the net (we're lucky someone of Breivik's murderous intelligence is so rare) and if he was a solitary lunatic that would explain it. Even if there's a network, the police can never be 100%, and they do a very good job.
Mr. Eagles, I would've thought you'd want to avoid Tragedy...
Edited extra bit: did toy with axing that last line, but I do think humour's always important, most especially in the face of adversity.
You're easily impressed. Why wasn't there better security? And she said nothing about improving security in the future. She was too busy talking about "loved ones", praising officials, talking about patrols in Manchester (fat lot of good they will do), and announcing her own travel plans. "We offer our full support to the authorities". (No, dear, you're supposed to be in charge of the authorities.) "We stand with the people of Manchester". "Let us remember those who died".
"Our country, our values, and our way of life will always prevail". What a shit speech. Oh and she's going to fight the "ideology" that inspires such attacks. What ideology is that? Name it. Stop blowing dogwhistles.
She also said that SHE announced last night that the general election campaign has been suspended. That is a disgrace. She should have said that she, Mr Corbyn, Mr Farron and Mr Nuttall have agreed to suspend the general election campaign. Where general election campaigning is concerned, she speaks only as the leader of the Tory party.
Your posts are deliberate and unworthy, and seek advantage. Whether they are based on truth, or not, is irrelevant. As I said.
My posts are clearly deliberate but perhaps you might clarify why they are "unworthy" and why I would "seek advantage" for a particular party?
I worry that you cannot see how seeking to use the murder of innocent teenagers, just hours after the event, the victims as yet unidentified and for reasons still unknown, to advance your argument for not voting for a particular party in the coming election is both seeking advantage and unworthy.
Your original post has already attracted sufficient responses to indicate you are fighting a losing battle with this one.
I am not arguing for voting for any political party but expressing my view on the significant implications of the event for Corbyn.
This site exists for the discussion of such matters.
Time and a place though, isn't there, Jack?
Immediate attempts to make political capital out of such distressing events are likely to be viewed with disdain.
You got dangerously close, my old cocker.
Yes I respect JackW he could have refrained for a time I feel.
As others have said, the purpose of the site is betting on politics. Jack and anyone else is perfectly entitled to discuss how the events might impact the election. That might sound cold but the reality is that the election campaign *will* look completely different after last night. Some issues will take on a salience they didn't have before; others will fade from view. Candidates to be PM will be judged by different standards. This all matters and shouldn't be off-limits just because some might view it as a bit tasteless.
I didn't plan on posting much today precisely because I do find that analysis tasteless but I strongly defend the right of those who want to do so, providing that they do so in the right place. And the right place is here.
It is about showing some respect for the victims and their families, before launching back into electoral point scoring. As the parties are all doing today. You are right that in a free country it is not obligatory. But it is desirable.
Between 2006 and 2014 I gave 26 pints of blood. I've stopped going because I became fed up with the jobsworths that run the sessions. I'm not in a position to book up in advance as I don't know if I'll be around on the day three months in advance. I don't mind waiting an hour to be done, but the people who run the sessions around where I live are so anal they just tell you to go away.
The thread header mentions postal votes landing this week and I'm sure many will.
However, the date range for receipt of postal vote papers at this election seems to be wider than I can ever remember. Some councils sent them out a week or more ago. In my council, my polling card informs me that my postal vote will not be sent until Tuesday 30th May.
This must make national campaign timetabling something of a nightmare.
(I also saw NIN back in 2014 at the arena too, on the night of the European Election results, so I've actually written PB threads from inside that arena)
Comments
I didn't plan on posting much today precisely because I do find that analysis tasteless but I strongly defend the right of those who want to do so, providing that they do so in the right place. And the right place is here.
I can't imagine that anybody or anything is likely to threaten the unelected, exceedingly pleasant way of life you have succeeded in carving out for yourself Mr. Juncker, all at the expense of the EU taxpayers.
Unfortunately, with most campaigns taking 6 weeks there is always at least a moderate likelihood of some terrible event interrupting it.
We need to shift the paradigm - a politician that suggests a more radical approach may see their support surge.
That politicians of all stripes feel it necessary to trot out all the usual banalities and platitudes is just a fact of modern society.
Anyway you can lay all the 1.03 you like if you think it isn't going ahead.
First estimate of April up a bit though .
As such all you can say is platitudes - you leave the actual strategy and any changes to that strategy for elsewhere....
I say again: what is going to be done? That's what I wanted to hear a bit of in May's speech: some sense that the root causes are going to be addressed.
All too many employees with a supposed security role (which on the railways for example includes all identifiable members of staff) are jobsworths who have little time for "members of the public", while at some entertainment and sporting events security is provided by boneheaded bouncers who enjoy boasting about meetings they have had with anti-terrorist police without appearing actually to have learnt much. There needs to be some education and some attitude readjustment. And not just among security personnel but also among ordinary people, for whom "just carry on" is the wrong message. There is a role here for the army.
Witnesses have described how people have fled the shopping centre in panic over rumours of a bomb threat."
My father worked in Manchester when the IRA flattened the place. I am more than a bit angry this morning.
Not insidious, if aimed at me. The knowledge and intellect on here makes that claim a little flimsy. The point was that people on all levels really need to be careful how they respond in one circumstance in case that response is then justifiably thrown back at them at a later date. Ask Colin Parry. I don't know where you are based but I can assure you that in the North West it is a very subdued day and lots of people are very upset.
I might add I look forward to your posts, very insightful, most of the time :-)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1184234/MI5-7-7-ringleader-radar-12-times--MPs-report-fails-point-finger.html
It said the agency, now 3,500-strong, would need hundreds of thousands of officers for comprehensive coverage.
The committee said Khan and fellow bomber Shehzad Tanweer were categorised as 'desirable' targets after they were overheard discussing fraud and travel to Pakistan.
But resources were so stretched agents could not even assess whether 'desirable' targets should be examined in more detail unless they were known to be plotting an attack.
The MPs said: 'They had to prioritise even within this essential group. Therefore a "desirable" target did not even get close to attracting a share of the limited resources available.'
Man up.
(Edit - cancelling the election, presumably under the Emergency Provisions Act, would be one of the most profoundly undemocratic and unjustifiable actions taken by any government of this country. It would set an appalling precedent).
My next gig there is Steps featuring the Vengaboys in December,
I'm going, nobody is going to stop me seeing them.
*when required.
I was say the flaw was that PM is more than CEO of a company.
https://twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/866935412668989440
Mr. Eagles, I would've thought you'd want to avoid Tragedy...
Edited extra bit: did toy with axing that last line, but I do think humour's always important, most especially in the face of adversity.
"Our country, our values, and our way of life will always prevail". What a shit speech. Oh and she's going to fight the "ideology" that inspires such attacks. What ideology is that? Name it. Stop blowing dogwhistles.
She also said that SHE announced last night that the general election campaign has been suspended. That is a disgrace. She should have said that she, Mr Corbyn, Mr Farron and Mr Nuttall have agreed to suspend the general election campaign. Where general election campaigning is concerned, she speaks only as the leader of the Tory party.
https://twitter.com/Eurosport_UK/status/866946610764197889
How would you improve security in a public place?
Is that their stated objective?
If Isis is trying to establish a state in the Middle East which imposes Islamic law, which are they bombing Manchester?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/28/daily-mail-legs-it-front-page-sexist
He got that soooo wrong.
He's still pretty good, but making silly mistakes.
TM's like the queen. Don't sexualise her.
Ever.
Between 2006 and 2014 I gave 26 pints of blood. I've stopped going because I became fed up with the jobsworths that run the sessions. I'm not in a position to book up in advance as I don't know if I'll be around on the day three months in advance. I don't mind waiting an hour to be done, but the people who run the sessions around where I live are so anal they just tell you to go away.
However, the date range for receipt of postal vote papers at this election seems to be wider than I can ever remember. Some councils sent them out a week or more ago. In my council, my polling card informs me that my postal vote will not be sent until Tuesday 30th May.
This must make national campaign timetabling something of a nightmare.
The Nine Inch Nails vs Rick Astley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLeNiNTtbc&list=RDfQLeNiNTtbc
(I also saw NIN back in 2014 at the arena too, on the night of the European Election results, so I've actually written PB threads from inside that arena)
This mob of cowards - have no public face .