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  • Gerry_Mander
    Gerry_Mander Posts: 621
    tim said:

    @Sunil

    It may be an urban myth that Inuit have 100 words for snow, but people who live in the South East have one sentence that covers small amounts of snow, rain or wind.
    "can I go home early please I'm going to wet myself"

    They probably do have 100 words for snow, like we have Lord knows how many words for rain,
    e.g. drizzle, shower, spitting.

    How many can we think of?
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    philiph said:

    Film The Perfect Storm just starting on ITV2

    How's that for programming.

    I think it was MAD magazine that satirised that as "The Perfect Snore" :)
  • old_labour
    old_labour Posts: 3,238
    GCSE grades 'to be axed' in favour of numerical system
    The traditional GCSE grading system is facing the axe as part of sweeping reforms designed to toughen up qualifications for 16-year-olds.
  • philiph
    philiph Posts: 4,705
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    philiph said:

    Film The Perfect Storm just starting on ITV2

    How's that for programming.

    I think it was MAD magazine that satirised that as "The Perfect Snore" :)
    I'm not going to risk my sanity by watching it.

    however, Sunil, for your information, trains out of kings x are dire tonight.
  • OldKingCole
    OldKingCole Posts: 35,275
    Gerry_Mander said:

    tim said:

    @Sunil

    It may be an urban myth that Inuit have 100 words for snow, but people who live in the South East have one sentence that covers small amounts of snow, rain or wind.
    "can I go home early please I'm going to wet myself"

    They probably do have 100 words for snow, like we have Lord knows how many words for rain,
    e.g. drizzle, shower, spitting.

    How many can we think of?
    pouring, "cats and dogs", "tipping it down"?
  • state_go_away
    state_go_away Posts: 5,855
    Gerry_Mander said:

    tim said:

    @Sunil

    It may be an urban myth that Inuit have 100 words for snow, but people who live in the South East have one sentence that covers small amounts of snow, rain or wind.
    "can I go home early please I'm going to wet myself"

    They probably do have 100 words for snow, like we have Lord knows how many words for rain,
    e.g. drizzle, shower, spitting.

    How many can we think of?
    Tipping it down
    its siling
    cats and dogs
    its biblical
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    AVB having a pop at the lack of support at WHL - twas ever thus, great fans away from home but we don't cheer until 2-0 up when at home. Always been the case unless a 'big game' vs Chelsea or Arsenal when we do bother for 15 mins or so.

    He's spot on and right to challenge us to do better. Mind you after the Spanners debacle, no wonder we were jumpy today!

    Having said that we've only played well for 1 1/2 vs Chelsea so far this season, scored the same no of goals as Fulham and yet unbelievably we're 4th due to umpteen clean sheets (seriously not Spurs-like)....

    Onwards and upwards!
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    edited October 2013
    Reminder to Cameron, Clegg, Miliband, Davey et al.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-24691465

    First of the many to fail tonight.

    Almost as useful as the chocolate teapot.
  • MonikerDiCanio
    MonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Danny Baker ‏@prodnose 3m
    Lou Reed has died http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/lou-reed-velvet-underground-leader-and-rock-pioneer-dead-at-71-20131027 …

    " I live with thirteen dead cats
    A purple dog that wears spats "

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMYRegDfUJ0

  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    dr_spyn said:

    Reminder to Cameron, Clegg, Miliband, Davey et al.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-24691465

    First of the many to fail tonight.

    Almost as useful as the chocolate teapot.

    We're have a sweepstake on how many Eco crucifixes are brought down or spontaneously burst into flames tonight. - one down, many more to go...!

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    Anyone remember the Perfect Day video the BBC played about a million times between programmes in about September 1997 for no particular reason? It was just after they launched their new balloon ident IIRC.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Thank you for your contribution. I see you take Lou's advice very seriously.
    tim said:

    I know Mike says he struggle to come up with three threads a day sometimes, some helpful advice from Lou Reed in July 2013

    "How do you stay creative"

    "I masturbate every day"

  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    AVB having a pop at the lack of support at WHL - twas ever thus, great fans away from home but we don't cheer until 2-0 up when at home. Always been the case unless a 'big game' vs Chelsea or Arsenal when we do bother for 15 mins or so.

    He's spot on and right to challenge us to do better. Mind you after the Spanners debacle, no wonder we were jumpy today!

    Having said that we've only played well for 1 1/2 vs Chelsea so far this season, scored the same no of goals as Fulham and yet unbelievably we're 4th due to umpteen clean sheets (seriously not Spurs-like)....

    Onwards and upwards!

    At least you're in the top four at the moment. I'm fearing for West Ham already!
  • marktheowl
    marktheowl Posts: 169
    AndyJS said:

    Anyone remember the Perfect Day video the BBC played about a million times between programmes in about September 1997 for no particular reason? It was just after they launched their new balloon ident IIRC.

    Wasn't that the children in need single? Although not a patch on the original, it was a lot more interesting than just wheeling out the boyband du jour with a dull upbeat cover of a half forgotten song from the 80s.

  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Iain Duncan Smith MP ‏@IDS_MP 45m
    GOVERNMENT ADVICE: If your home is in the path of the storm, head to your second or third home for safety. #ukstorm

    (for all his fans, RT-ed by James Kelly btw)

    LOL
  • Freggles
    Freggles Posts: 3,487
    state_go_away said:

    Gerry_Mander said:

    tim said:

    @Sunil

    It may be an urban myth that Inuit have 100 words for snow, but people who live in the South East have one sentence that covers small amounts of snow, rain or wind.
    "can I go home early please I'm going to wet myself"

    They probably do have 100 words for snow, like we have Lord knows how many words for rain,
    e.g. drizzle, shower, spitting.

    How many can we think of?
    Tipping it down
    its siling
    cats and dogs
    its biblical
    Pouring down
    Precipitation
    misting
    chucking it down
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    philiph said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    philiph said:

    Film The Perfect Storm just starting on ITV2

    How's that for programming.

    I think it was MAD magazine that satirised that as "The Perfect Snore" :)
    I'm not going to risk my sanity by watching it.

    however, Sunil, for your information, trains out of kings x are dire tonight.
    Hope it won't be as bad in the morning.

    BTW Portillo's brand new series on Great Continental Railway Journeys about to start on BBC2.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Barcelona is a fascinating town right now - a city in foment. I find it quite depressing. The open, broad-minded place I used to know has become insular and parochial. Friends from here, Catalans born and bred, feel themselves marginalised, their Catalan patriotism questioned, if they don't support independence. There is an intolerant, narrow-minded nationalism here that is utterly repellant, for all the Madrid government is stoking the fires. At some stage something is going to give.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Observer, might the intolerance for non-independent (as it were) thinking be related to the very hardline stance of Madrid? ie - not supporting Catalonian independence is considered the same as supporting the Madrid government over Catalan?

    Is the Spanish Government, which I think has indicated it doesn't consider the referendum on independence to be valid, going to actually try and stop it, or let it go ahead?
  • maaarsh
    maaarsh Posts: 3,602
    SouthamObserver said:

    Barcelona is a fascinating town right now - a city in foment. I find it quite depressing. The open, broad-minded place I used to know has become insular and parochial. Friends from here, Catalans born and bred, feel themselves marginalised, their Catalan patriotism questioned, if they don't support independence. There is an intolerant, narrow-minded nationalism here that is utterly repellant, for all the Madrid government is stoking the fires. At some stage something is going to give.

    Nice to see attempts to create a European demos are simply fracturing those which did exist in to smaller pieces.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Well spotted. I enjoyed the last series.
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    philiph said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    philiph said:

    Film The Perfect Storm just starting on ITV2

    How's that for programming.

    I think it was MAD magazine that satirised that as "The Perfect Snore" :)
    I'm not going to risk my sanity by watching it.

    however, Sunil, for your information, trains out of kings x are dire tonight.
    Hope it won't be as bad in the morning.

    BTW Portillo's brand new series on Great Continental Railway Journeys about to start on BBC2.
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Must be due to the unique way in which BBC presenters are funded...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477192/BBC-staff-revolt-freelance-deals-axed-tax-row-Corporation-phase-contracts-allow-workers-taxed-companies-individuals.html
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Maaaarsh, that may not necessarily harm the horrid EU's efforts to become a state. It depends whether such smaller groups are pro-EU or not. The SNP seem to be very pro-Europe.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The larger Eropean countries tended to form for military reasons. Now those are resolved, it makes sense to return to the world of city-states.
    maaarsh said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Barcelona is a fascinating town right now - a city in foment. I find it quite depressing. The open, broad-minded place I used to know has become insular and parochial. Friends from here, Catalans born and bred, feel themselves marginalised, their Catalan patriotism questioned, if they don't support independence. There is an intolerant, narrow-minded nationalism here that is utterly repellant, for all the Madrid government is stoking the fires. At some stage something is going to give.

    Nice to see attempts to create a European demos are simply fracturing those which did exist in to smaller pieces.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    philiph said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    philiph said:

    Film The Perfect Storm just starting on ITV2

    How's that for programming.

    I think it was MAD magazine that satirised that as "The Perfect Snore" :)
    I'm not going to risk my sanity by watching it.

    however, Sunil, for your information, trains out of kings x are dire tonight.
    Hope it won't be as bad in the morning.

    BTW Portillo's brand new series on Great Continental Railway Journeys about to start on BBC2.
    Great programme. Thanks.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    AndyJS said:

    Anyone remember the Perfect Day video the BBC played about a million times between programmes in about September 1997 for no particular reason? It was just after they launched their new balloon ident IIRC.

    It was put out as a charity single after they got a load of artists who owed at least part of their exposure to the BBC to record bits of it.


    "In response to accusations from commercial competitors that the corporation had wasted vast sums on the film it was revealed that each artist received a "token" £250 because of their belief in the BBC."

    "Whatever your musical taste, it is catered for by BBC Radio and Television. This is only possible thanks to the unique way the BBC is paid for by you. BBC. You make it what it is."

    Guaranteed to induce rage among the PB Tea Party Tories.
    They'd be even more angry if they knew the song was about heroin.
    Funny you should mention that, one of my favourite Velvet Underground songs is Heroin:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xagx6v_heroin-the-velvet-underground-music_shortfilms

    This is my favourite though with Nico:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xagx6v_heroin-the-velvet-underground-music_shortfilms
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Sorry, link to Femme Fatale with Nico:

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FjjDmX9Tkss&desktop_uri=/watch?v=FjjDmX9Tkss
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    Daily Telegraph - Ed Miliband's new energy supplier says his price freeze could put him out of business
  • Bobajob
    Bobajob Posts: 1,536
    Sad news about Lou Reed.
    Storm's coming.
    Nothing much happening in the world of politics.
    Two entrenched voting blocs and nothing is budging them at the moment.
    Good night, comrades.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The price freeze will benefit the big suppliers as they have the cash reserves and hedging ability to mitigate their risks. Smaller companies are more exposed. In the longer run my SSE shares look good!
    fitalass said:

    Daily Telegraph - Ed Miliband's new energy supplier says his price freeze could put him out of business

  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    >> This is only possible thanks to the unique way the BBC is paid for by you.

    We discussed this last evening. The 'unique way' is by forcing people to pay for a 'licence' to watch TV with the threat of prosecution if you don't. It's an idea whose time has long gone.

    Somebody yesterday opined that providing factual information was important enough to need taxpayer funding.

    Government funded sources of 'factual information' are usually the last place you would go for impartial innformation.

    The classic of this is the (probably apocryphal) story of Nixon and Kruschev playing golf. Pravda reported that Kruschev came in second, while Nixon was next to last. It's factual, accurate, and completely misleading.

    The other 'ferret rouge' being peddled is the idea that it's either licence fee or no BBC. That's not true either.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The place with the strongest wind forecast I've found so far is Brighton with 46 mph predicted at 5 am:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2654710
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    Fox, exactly.
    foxinsoxuk said:

    The price freeze will benefit the big suppliers as they have the cash reserves and hedging ability to mitigate their risks. Smaller companies are more exposed. In the longer run my SSE shares look good!

    fitalass said:

    Daily Telegraph - Ed Miliband's new energy supplier says his price freeze could put him out of business

  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,609
    AndyJS said:

    The place with the strongest wind forecast I've found so far is Brighton with 46 mph predicted at 5 am:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2654710

    Portland, 47mph ;-)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6692041
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    state_go_away said:

    Gerry_Mander said:

    tim said:

    @Sunil

    It may be an urban myth that Inuit have 100 words for snow, but people who live in the South East have one sentence that covers small amounts of snow, rain or wind.
    "can I go home early please I'm going to wet myself"

    They probably do have 100 words for snow, like we have Lord knows how many words for rain,
    e.g. drizzle, shower, spitting.

    How many can we think of?
    Tipping it down
    its siling
    cats and dogs
    its biblical
    Stair rods.
  • Next
    Next Posts: 826
    tim said:

    @kiranstacey: Energy companies hiking prices by 9pc or more. Ofgem figures show wholesale prives are barely rising at all. http://t.co/NnE5kAPyit

    It's a pity that Labour removed all that competition from the marketplace.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Plato said:

    state_go_away said:

    Gerry_Mander said:

    tim said:

    @Sunil

    It may be an urban myth that Inuit have 100 words for snow, but people who live in the South East have one sentence that covers small amounts of snow, rain or wind.
    "can I go home early please I'm going to wet myself"

    They probably do have 100 words for snow, like we have Lord knows how many words for rain,
    e.g. drizzle, shower, spitting.

    How many can we think of?
    Tipping it down
    its siling
    cats and dogs
    its biblical
    Stair rods.
    The great Terry Pratchett description of heavy rain: "A vertical sea with slots in it".
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    A horrible programme abour boarding school follows the brilliant Portillo railway half hour.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    Great Article.
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.
    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

  • maaarsh
    maaarsh Posts: 3,602
    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    I joined a grammar school aged 14.

    My brother joined aged 16.

    We both went to Oxford.

    And in the years we weren't at a grammar school, we were in the comprehensives which were above the national average even with the top 5% skimmed off.

    But I'm sure that's just an anecdote and the existance of grammar schools was of deep and lasting damage to those cruelly rejected.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The new Labour PPC for Portsmouth North regrets Lou Reed's passing:

    "Cllr John Ferrett ‏@John_Ferrett 4h

    There's only one thing to listen to this evening - Transformer one of the all-time great albums by one of the all-time greats #loureed RIP
    Expand"

    https://twitter.com/John_Ferrett
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    Personally I think 11 is the best possible age to assess a child's potential for the future, far better than other ages such as 16, 18 or 21. I know that isn't a politically correct thing to say.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Looks like the south coast will bear the brunt of the storm, no doubt we will find out in a few hours
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    Grow up for God's sake

  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Does Lord A support the mighty Spurs!

    Top Geezer.... we did rather well out of his Hawley group which was then ADT when he was the man, now his great polling and now this...

    Lord Ashcroft‏@LordAshcroft3h
    Very scrappy match at Spurs but enjoyed hearing about the impressive plans for a new stadium .
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Does Lord A support the mighty Spurs!

    Top Geezer.... we did rather well out of his Hawley group which was then ADT when he was the man, now his great polling and now this...

    Lord Ashcroft‏@LordAshcroft3h
    Very scrappy match at Spurs but enjoyed hearing about the impressive plans for a new stadium .

    Apparently they are going to build a 65,000 seater stadium and share it with an NFL franchise, think the NFL teams would rather play in Harlem than Tottenham
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    I did grow up, and in a part of the UK that didn't require grammar schools to produce well educated kids.
    nigel4england said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    Grow up for God's sake

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Grammar schools were abolished on the principle that if everyone can't have something then no-one should be able to have it.
  • maaarsh
    maaarsh Posts: 3,602
    AndyJS said:

    Grammar schools were abolished on the principle that if everyone can't have something then no-one should be able to have it.

    Just as a certain sort of socialist hates nothing more than poverty, apart from affluence, the same sort hate nothing more than some children receiving a bad education, apart from others getting a good one.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I grew up in Comprehensive schools, and went to a London Medical School. My sibs went to the same schools and went to Cambridge and LSE respectively.

    There is nothing wrong with Comprehensive education if the schools are run well.

    There is everything wrong with schools of any sort, Comprehensive, Grammar or Secondary Modern if run badly.
    fitalass said:

    I did grow up, and in a part of the UK that didn't require grammar schools to produce well educated kids.

    nigel4england said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    Grow up for God's sake

  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    edited October 2013
    At least Grammar School education is free.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.


    So sad to see you adhering to the principle of lowest common denominator in education. The comprehensive experiment has been a disaster for education in Britain and the sooner we return to selection based on ability the better.
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    >> Apparently they are going to build a 65,000 seater stadium and share it with an NFL franchise

    I doubt it - that's way way too small for an NFL stadium
  • OldKingCole
    OldKingCole Posts: 35,275
    foxinsoxuk said:

    I grew up in Comprehensive schools, and went to a London Medical School. My sibs went to the same schools and went to Cambridge and LSE respectively.

    There is nothing wrong with Comprehensive education if the schools are run well.

    There is everything wrong with schools of any sort, Comprehensive, Grammar or Secondary Modern if run badly.

    fitalass said:

    I did grow up, and in a part of the UK that didn't require grammar schools to produce well educated kids.

    nigel4england said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    Grow up for God's sake

    I went to a grammar school. In a part of the country where the local County Borough "generously" granted a couple of dozen grammar school places to the surrounding County primary schools. The difference in "pass level" between the primary school I attended, and others in the same area, and those across the border in the Borough was remarkable.

    I'm totally with Mr Fox, viz, There is nothing wrong with Comprehensive education if the schools are run well.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    @Richard Tyndall

    Is there any analysis that convincing demonstrates that selection into an academic school is better than streaming or setting. My preference is for the latter as it offers the most flexibility (eg I was great at maths and history and cr*p at languages). It also offers the ability to move people up or down from year to year - kids develop at different rates.

    Much harder to do if you have them in separate schools.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Tim_B said:

    >> Apparently they are going to build a 65,000 seater stadium and share it with an NFL franchise

    I doubt it - that's way way too small for an NFL stadium

    For an English crowd? That's what I read anyway

  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a mother of three probably has helped you come to this view. I have nothing against aspiration and training for life an dall that jazz.

    But 11 is not the age to decide if your life will be a success or not !
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    Richard, I don't adhere to the lowest common denominator at all. I just happen to disagree with your prescription for improving education standards for all children through grammar school system. We didn't go big on grammar schools up here in Scotland, and yet we still managed to see education improve for all through streaming without them.
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.


    So sad to see you adhering to the principle of lowest common denominator in education. The comprehensive experiment has been a disaster for education in Britain and the sooner we return to selection based on ability the better.
  • Carola
    Carola Posts: 1,805
    The education/social mobility line has taken a bit of a pasting in recent research.
  • Bobajob
    Bobajob Posts: 1,536
    surbiton said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a mother of three probably has helped you come to this view. I have nothing against aspiration and training for life an dall that jazz.

    But 11 is not the age to decide if your life will be a success or not !
    I always thought Fitalass was a mum of two (boys) not three?
  • maaarsh
    maaarsh Posts: 3,602
    Tim_B said:

    >> Apparently they are going to build a 65,000 seater stadium and share it with an NFL franchise

    I doubt it - that's way way too small for an NFL stadium

    It's more people than have viewed any of, say, Jacksonville's, home games this year.
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    Three boys.
    Bobajob said:

    surbiton said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a mother of three probably has helped you come to this view. I have nothing against aspiration and training for life an dall that jazz.

    But 11 is not the age to decide if your life will be a success or not !
    I always thought Fitalass was a mum of two (boys) not three?
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Bobajob said:

    surbiton said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a mother of three probably has helped you come to this view. I have nothing against aspiration and training for life an dall that jazz.

    But 11 is not the age to decide if your life will be a success or not !
    I always thought Fitalass was a mum of two (boys) not three?
    Oops ! Why did I think it was three ?
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    surbiton said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a mother of three probably has helped you come to this view. I have nothing against aspiration and training for life an dall that jazz.

    But 11 is not the age to decide if your life will be a success or not !

    Why would your life be a failure if you didn't pass the eleven plus? My eldest granddaughter didn't and she is in the last year at one of the best dance colleges in London, Urdang Academy, where she won a scholarship.

    Surely if you are not academic it's better to be in a vocational school or college.

    The race to the bottom has been a disaster from Wilson through Thatcher to Cameron, though at least Gove is trying something different.

    I simply do not understand how life is a failure if you do not pass the eleven plus, utter rubbish
  • Bobajob
    Bobajob Posts: 1,536
    Tim_B said:

    >> Apparently they are going to build a 65,000 seater stadium and share it with an NFL franchise

    I doubt it - that's way way too small for an NFL stadium

    It's probably about right given it's in England - not a nation known for its fanatical American Football support (although I understand it has a niche set of fans here)
  • Bobajob
    Bobajob Posts: 1,536
    fitalass said:

    Three boys.

    Bobajob said:

    surbiton said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.

    nigel4england said:

    Interesting article on grammar schools:

    http://mippr.co.uk/2013/10/britain-needs-a-grammar-school-renaissance/

    For once, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Being a mother of three probably has helped you come to this view. I have nothing against aspiration and training for life an dall that jazz.

    But 11 is not the age to decide if your life will be a success or not !
    I always thought Fitalass was a mum of two (boys) not three?
    My apologies Fitalass - I am also one of three boys so I ought to have noted that!
  • edmundintokyo
    edmundintokyo Posts: 17,735
    Tim_B said:


    Government funded sources of 'factual information' are usually the last place you would go for impartial innformation.

    I think diversity helps. One factor that made nuclear power in Japan more dangerous and contributed to the Fukushima accident was that the energy companies did a lot of paid TV advertising (oddly since they had regional monopolies and it wasn't like we were all going to run our computers on Duracell batteries) which made broadcasters that depend on ad revenue - which includes the official broadcaster NHK who apparently can't survive on just the license fee - reluctant to criticise them.

    You certainly wouldn't want government-funded news to be the _only_ option, but I think it's good to have some in the mix.

    That said, what I think government-funded news should be doing is providing more raw data that lets other people edit and report.
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    edited October 2013
    Here in London it is raining. On watching the news, youngest son says: "Are they going to do this every time there's a light drizzle?"
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Charles said:

    @Richard Tyndall

    Is there any analysis that convincing demonstrates that selection into an academic school is better than streaming or setting. My preference is for the latter as it offers the most flexibility (eg I was great at maths and history and cr*p at languages). It also offers the ability to move people up or down from year to year - kids develop at different rates.

    Much harder to do if you have them in separate schools.

    Yes there is. The only major study that has been carried out into selective education in the last decade or so found that those areas with the grammar school system saw a measurable improvement in results amongst those selected with no corresponding drop (in fact no drop at all) in the non selective schools as a result compared to those areas without selection. Overall standards improved.

    Funnily it was Tim who first directed me to this study a couple of years ago after he had thoroughly misrepresented its findings in a previous discussion on the subject.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    fitalass said:

    Richard, I don't adhere to the lowest common denominator at all. I just happen to disagree with your prescription for improving education standards for all children through grammar school system. We didn't go big on grammar schools up here in Scotland, and yet we still managed to see education improve for all through streaming without them.

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.


    So sad to see you adhering to the principle of lowest common denominator in education. The comprehensive experiment has been a disaster for education in Britain and the sooner we return to selection based on ability the better.
    But the lowest common denominator is exactly what has happened to our education system since the epic failure of the Comprehensive system was introduced.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    I'm one of four boys and I have a sister.

    I have three daughters, two granddaughters and four grandson (so far).

    Of the grand kids some are bright the others not so, I live in Buckinghamshire where we still have grammars. Of the five grand kids still to take the eleven plus I reckon three will pass, there is no point spending money coaching the other two as if they did pass they would only struggle. Much better to find what they are good at and enjoy, which seems to be sport and art, and encourage them.

    Surely that must be the best way, just don't understand why people think life is all over if you fail the eleven plus
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Charles said:

    @Richard Tyndall

    Is there any analysis that convincing demonstrates that selection into an academic school is better than streaming or setting. My preference is for the latter as it offers the most flexibility (eg I was great at maths and history and cr*p at languages). It also offers the ability to move people up or down from year to year - kids develop at different rates.

    Much harder to do if you have them in separate schools.

    That's my view too. Interesting to see the discussion cross party lines here this evening - makes the discussion better than the usual trench warfare. I wonder if politicians of all parties have spent too much time worrying about school structure, compared with what goes on inside? There's clearly an interaction, but ut's far from the only factor.
  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    That is just it, that hasn't been the case up here in Scotland in the past. We had streaming and a flexibility that really helped motivate children through out secondary school so they could reach their full potential.
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    fitalass said:

    Richard, I don't adhere to the lowest common denominator at all. I just happen to disagree with your prescription for improving education standards for all children through grammar school system. We didn't go big on grammar schools up here in Scotland, and yet we still managed to see education improve for all through streaming without them.

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.


    So sad to see you adhering to the principle of lowest common denominator in education. The comprehensive experiment has been a disaster for education in Britain and the sooner we return to selection based on ability the better.
    But the lowest common denominator is exactly what has happened to our education system since the epic failure of the Comprehensive system was introduced.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    tim said:

    The PB Tory Friends Of The Troops are going to be outraged

    @TelePolitics: Sir Malcolm Rifkind warns army reservist plans may not be "deliverable" http://t.co/chkJAzUeEz

    I am not a big fan of Rifkind but in this case he is absolutely right. Decimating (or near decimating using the classical measure of losing 1 in 10) the army in the vague hope that reservists will be able to take up the slack was always a very dangerous idea.
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    >> It's more people than have viewed any of, say, Jacksonville's, home games this year.

    There's a growing view that the NFL is 31 teams plus the Jags. The team is terrible. It's galactically bad. Even the Tampa Bay Bucs are better (owned by the same folks that own Man U).

    The team has committed to play a game in London each of the next 4 years. The fact that the team's owner also owns Fulham in the premier league may have something to do with this.

    The Jags are also the favorite in the 'which team relocates to London' sweepstakes.

    One of the more intriguing stats is that over a million pounds worth of NFL merchandise is sold at each of the Wembley NFL games.

    TV ratings of the NFL in the UK are way up and all the Wembley games sell out.

    The NFL currently expects a Super Bowl in London and a London based team within a decade.

    Personally I'm not sure if the game in the UK has progressed beyond novelty to real fans yet.

    I guess time will tell.
  • MikeSmithson
    MikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited October 2013
    Best of luck PBers who might be affected by the superstorm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Charles said:

    @Richard Tyndall

    Is there any analysis that convincing demonstrates that selection into an academic school is better than streaming or setting. My preference is for the latter as it offers the most flexibility (eg I was great at maths and history and cr*p at languages). It also offers the ability to move people up or down from year to year - kids develop at different rates.

    Much harder to do if you have them in separate schools.

    Yes there is. The only major study that has been carried out into selective education in the last decade or so found that those areas with the grammar school system saw a measurable improvement in results amongst those selected with no corresponding drop (in fact no drop at all) in the non selective schools as a result compared to those areas without selection. Overall standards improved.

    Funnily it was Tim who first directed me to this study a couple of years ago after he had thoroughly misrepresented its findings in a previous discussion on the subject.
    But that's not what I asked.

    In a forced choice of grammar vs non-selective I would go for grammar. I asked about selective schools vs setting vs streaming.

    I personally believe education is about more than just academic achievement (thank Eric, thanks Joe, for teaching me that). All kids benefit from the academically smartest being part of the main scholastic corpus
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    Cyclefree said:

    Here in London it is raining. On watching the news, youngest son says: "Are they going to do this every time there's a light drizzle?"

    I took work home on Friday "just in case"

    good job really as they have decided no trains before 9am from here.



  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    MikeSmithson said:

    Best of luck PBers who might be affeced by the storm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

    I am thankfully up in Aberdeen at the moment but am just a tad concerned for the family down in Lincolnshire - mostly as there are a couple of large trees I am not absolutely confident about

    More importantly I am monitoring some of the southern North Sea offshore installations which are right in the path of the storm.
  • foxinsoxuk
    foxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Why is it that the countries above us in the OECD rankings so often run Comprehensive systems, such as New Zealand, Sweden and Finland?

    The obsession with academic selection at 11 seems a particularly British phenomenon.

    Or is it that Sweden and Finland actually run their schools well?

    The reason that the abolition of the 11 plus was so popular with both Labour and Conservative parties in the sixties and seventies was because the old system was a long way off perfect.


    Richard_Tyndall said:

    fitalass said:

    Richard, I don't adhere to the lowest common denominator at all. I just happen to disagree with your prescription for improving education standards for all children through grammar school system. We didn't go big on grammar schools up here in Scotland, and yet we still managed to see education improve for all through streaming without them.

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    fitalass said:

    No we don't. We need to provide a good education for all our children, not try to write off a lot of children at 11.


    So sad to see you adhering to the principle of lowest common denominator in education. The comprehensive experiment has been a disaster for education in Britain and the sooner we return to selection based on ability the better.
    But the lowest common denominator is exactly what has happened to our education system since the epic failure of the Comprehensive system was introduced.
  • MikeL
    MikeL Posts: 7,809
    Tim_B said:

    TV ratings of the NFL in the UK are way up

    They are still peanuts. Ratings for Sky Sports Sunday games:

    13 Oct:
    Saints/Patriots - 88,000
    6pm game not listed - ie it got less

    6 Oct:
    Ravens game - 80,000
    Broncos game - 80,000 ( ie the same - no typo)
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    MikeSmithson said:

    Best of luck PBers who might be affected by the superstorm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

    Indeed, good luck to all those who may be in the path of the storm. The infrastructure is somewhat different here, but the once or twice a year when we get 12-18 inches of rain in a day and 50-80mph winds, usually results in the cell phone network failing first, then power goes out, but only rarely does the regular phone network fail.

    It's therefor somewhat ironic that fewer and fewer people here have a land line.
  • Cyclefree
    Cyclefree Posts: 25,709
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Here in London it is raining. On watching the news, youngest son says: "Are they going to do this every time there's a light drizzle?"

    I took work home on Friday "just in case"

    good job really as they have decided no trains before 9am from here.



    I find the general hysteria every time there's a bit of bad weather pathetic. I remember the 1987 storm: slept through the entire thing, plant pots on window sills completely untouched, got into the office to be told "What are you doing here?" to which my reasonable reply was that it was a weekday, where the hell else did my boss think I was going to be. It was only at that point that I realised there had even been a storm.

    Same for all the dreadful snow in London in recent years: no worse than the snow we regularly had as children and which we enjoyed traipsing through on our way to school. Whereas now - half a centimetre of snow - and we behave (some of us) as if the End of the World Was Nigh....

  • fitalass
    fitalass Posts: 4,444
    edited October 2013
    Would like to second that, stay safe everyone. I just hope that the storm doesn't turn out to be as severe as predicted, better to be over prepared rather than under prepared for a weather event like this.
    MikeSmithson said:

    Best of luck PBers who might be affected by the superstorm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Why is it that the countries above us in the OECD rankings so often run Comprehensive systems, such as New Zealand, Sweden and Finland?

    The obsession with academic selection at 11 seems a particularly British phenomenon.

    Or is it that Sweden and Finland actually run their schools well?

    The reason that the abolition of the 11 plus was so popular with both Labour and Conservative parties in the sixties and seventies was because the old system was a long way off perfect.




    Germany and Australia both have selective systems and again both select at around the same age as the UK.

    Also not sure why you pick Sweden as an example of a good system given that they are 26th in Maths and 19th in Literacy in the PISA standings.
  • nigel4england
    nigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Tim_B said:

    >> It's more people than have viewed any of, say, Jacksonville's, home games this year.

    There's a growing view that the NFL is 31 teams plus the Jags. The team is terrible. It's galactically bad. Even the Tampa Bay Bucs are better (owned by the same folks that own Man U).

    The team has committed to play a game in London each of the next 4 years. The fact that the team's owner also owns Fulham in the premier league may have something to do with this.

    The Jags are also the favorite in the 'which team relocates to London' sweepstakes.

    One of the more intriguing stats is that over a million pounds worth of NFL merchandise is sold at each of the Wembley NFL games.

    TV ratings of the NFL in the UK are way up and all the Wembley games sell out.

    The NFL currently expects a Super Bowl in London and a London based team within a decade.

    Personally I'm not sure if the game in the UK has progressed beyond novelty to real fans yet.

    I guess time will tell.

    Tim_B said:

    >> It's more people than have viewed any of, say, Jacksonville's, home games this year.

    There's a growing view that the NFL is 31 teams plus the Jags. The team is terrible. It's galactically bad. Even the Tampa Bay Bucs are better (owned by the same folks that own Man U).

    The team has committed to play a game in London each of the next 4 years. The fact that the team's owner also owns Fulham in the premier league may have something to do with this.

    The Jags are also the favorite in the 'which team relocates to London' sweepstakes.

    One of the more intriguing stats is that over a million pounds worth of NFL merchandise is sold at each of the Wembley NFL games.

    TV ratings of the NFL in the UK are way up and all the Wembley games sell out.

    The NFL currently expects a Super Bowl in London and a London based team within a decade.

    Personally I'm not sure if the game in the UK has progressed beyond novelty to real fans yet.

    I guess time will tell.

    Anyone remember the NFL highlights back in the 80's on Channel 4 (I think), as I recall the DJ Nicky Horne was the presenter.

    Quite an appropriate name for a DJ given the recent revelations, though Kid Jensen is the best!

  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    MikeSmithson said:

    Best of luck PBers who might be affected by the superstorm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

    Raining steadily in east London at the moment. Winds not too strong so far. Too many trees along our street to worry about. If they get blown over so be it. Back in 1987, a few did get blown over a short distance away but can't remember too much damage to cars and buildings.

    Stay safe everyone.
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited October 2013
    >> They are still peanuts. Ratings for Sky Sports Sunday games:

    I have no illusions that the NFL is going to challenge rugby, cricket or soccer in the UK. But it doesn't need to. The NFL sells TV rights as a league. If, for the sake of argument, Jacksonville moves to the UK and earns more than it does now, the league will be happy. No, I have no idea how the logistics will work.

    It's like the Premier League in this country. NBC Sports Network is reckoned to have paid about a 50% premium for the entire US TV rights. They paid about $83 million per season. Given their advertising rates, they will be lucky to recoup that. ESPN and Fox chose not to compete, saying that those rates didn't fit their business model.

    That compares to ESPN paying over $115 million for EACH Monday Night Football game. Yes that's per game, not per season. But worry not, ESPN is making a killing on it.
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    Nigel4England - did I really say it twice? :-)
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    RichardTyndall Foxinsox - Finland selects, but at 16. Australia is comprehensive I believe.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    MikeSmithson said:

    Best of luck PBers who might be affected by the superstorm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

    Light drizzle in north London at the moment, no special winds. Stormageddon tweeters still generally ostentatiously nonchalant ("In New Cross it is currently windy enough to make reading a broadsheet newspaper on a park bench mildly inconvenient ") but those in the far south do say rain is intense and the wind's picking up, just as predicted. Trains to Gatwick cancelled, though if you magically get there then the flights aren't cancelled yet, which seems odd - aren't trains more resistant than planes?

    We shan't really know how it's turned out till mid-morning. Sleep well all.

  • FrankBooth
    FrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    tim said:

    old_labour said:

    GCSE grades 'to be axed' in favour of numerical system
    The traditional GCSE grading system is facing the axe as part of sweeping reforms designed to toughen up qualifications for 16-year-olds.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NrVCjnRdB_k
    If we're having compulsory education up until 18 why not get rid of them?
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It's difficult to believe that someone allowed a 14 year old boy to go swimming off Newhaven when that area is about to experience some of the worst winds for 25 years:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-24697520
  • Tim_B
    Tim_B Posts: 7,669
    >> aren't trains more resistant than planes?

    Only until the wrong kind of leaves turn up :-)
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    fitalass said:

    Would like to second that, stay safe everyone. I just hope that the storm doesn't turn out to be as severe as predicted, better to be over prepared rather than under prepared for a weather event like this.

    MikeSmithson said:

    Best of luck PBers who might be affected by the superstorm

    We are all stocked up with matches, torches, candles and I've got emergency 4G WiFi if we lose power and the house WiFi goes off.

    But...........Where is this super storm? They say it's coming but no one knows where it is. In London it's wet, however the wind has dropped and it's as calm as a lily pond. Is this a cry wolf moment?
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    Cyclefree said:

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Here in London it is raining. On watching the news, youngest son says: "Are they going to do this every time there's a light drizzle?"

    I took work home on Friday "just in case"

    good job really as they have decided no trains before 9am from here.



    I find the general hysteria every time there's a bit of bad weather pathetic. I remember the 1987 storm: slept through the entire thing, plant pots on window sills completely untouched, got into the office to be told "What are you doing here?" to which my reasonable reply was that it was a weekday, where the hell else did my boss think I was going to be. It was only at that point that I realised there had even been a storm.

    Same for all the dreadful snow in London in recent years: no worse than the snow we regularly had as children and which we enjoyed traipsing through on our way to school. Whereas now - half a centimetre of snow - and we behave (some of us) as if the End of the World Was Nigh....

    I know what you mean.

    But in 1987 I was living down in Kent and it was really bad where we were.

    Absolutely no way of sleeping through it and power out in the middle of the night.

    The noise of it all was just amazing.

    I could walk in to work back then and there were trees down everywhere, roofs off or badly damaged, walls knocked over.

    We also had an amazing fall of snow in January of the same year I think, perhaps the year before.

    Worked in London then and I think I could not get in for days. Spent the afternoons in a pub instead, happy days!

  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    "The reason that the abolition of the 11 plus was so popular with both Labour and Conservative parties in the sixties and seventies was because the old system was a long way off perfect."

    Abolishing grammar schools was indeed very popular with a lot of people because it meant that if their children turned out to be not as bright as they hoped they'd be they could get them into a better school by paying for a house in a different catchment area with better comprehensives. In other words, it became all about money, which of course disadvantaged bright children from poor families.
  • Plato
    Plato Posts: 15,724
    Where is this superstorm? Down here in Sussex - the forecast is windy 40km and gusts up to 100km - that's not the end of the world. It was wild last night, I left the bedroom open a bit and got wet as it blew in 8ft across the room.

    I may of course regret my nonchalance in the morning.
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