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SystemSystem Posts: 12,639
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP drops to ZERO MPs following Carswell’s decision to leave the party

In happier times – Farage with his CON defector in 2014

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,104
    First!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    What in reality is left of UKIP? No MPs, no money, a handful of councillors and a few MEPs who lose their jobs in two years' time. This is a slow motion winding-up of the party.

    To answer my own question, all that's left of UKIP now in reality is the idea.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RIP UKIP.

    No Flowers.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited March 2017
    EDIT: Ignore.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,104
    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,519
    AlastairMeeks said:

    What in reality is left of UKIP? No MPs, no money, a handful of councillors and a few MEPs who lose their jobs in two years' time. This is a slow motion winding-up of the party.

    To answer my own question, all that's left of UKIP now in reality is the idea.

    If what appears to be happening in Norfolk is any guide they'll have a lot fewer County Councillors after May, too.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
  • DavidBrackenburyDavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    I think UKIP will lose some funding now they have no MPs
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    My condolences, should I send flowers or a donation..?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    logical_song said:

    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
    I got an email from them about Carswells departure and it said

    "Our party has not benefited financially or organisationally from having Douglas in Westminster."
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    only just seen this news and my first reaction is I hope he doesn't bring the TPD with him
    ..
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    AlastairMeeks said:

    What in reality is left of UKIP? No MPs, no money, a handful of councillors and a few MEPs who lose their jobs in two years' time. This is a slow motion winding-up of the party.

    To answer my own question, all that's left of UKIP now in reality is the idea.

    They are a home for the TPD so that is a valuable role
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,104
    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
    I think we need Mr Herdson for this, but it will be interesting to see what Carswell does. He might just stand down at the next election so no issue. Somehow I just can't see him contesting the seat as an independent. So the question is, how long before the GE does he need to join the Tory Party to be the Tory candidate? And then the next question is, if/when he joins the Tories, does that make him a Tory MP? And should that precipitate a by-election?

    Lots of ifs there, but I'm less comfortable with him calling a by-election when he joined one party but not calling another when he leaves that party.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    I'm not so sure he'll return to the Tories. He could remain an independent, and his personal brand in Clacton is strong - barring a strong challenge from Banks he'd have a fair chance of holding on at the GE. He seems like the kind of person who'd never be happy in any party.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited March 2017
    Mr Smithson... Is UKIP really more dysfunctional that Labour? Surely not ?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    logical_song said:

    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
    The short money is a good question.

    UKIP are in theory allocated about £650,000 every year based on their votes performance in 2015, however Creswell has not been calming most of that, consistent with his not wasting taxpayers money.

    As I understate it a party is entailed to the money if they get over 150,000 votes and at least one MP at the previous GE. the important bit hear is the getting the MP in the preceding GE? UKIP did not get short money in the last parliament because Creswell (and Recklass) defected and by-elections but where not elected at the preceding GE. by that logic UKIP should still be eligible to the money now. but with out an MP how do they clame it?

  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    Advice for MPs thinking of leaving their party

    "3. Insist on a by-election. Between 1701 and 1918, a by-election had to be called every time an MP was invited to join the government. Think of it as a sort of confirmation hearing. Insist on a by-election to confirm your move with the electorate. It's the only honourable way. Incidentally, there is no disgrace if they do say "No". What would be disgraceful would be to live life subservient to people you cannot respect."

    http://www.talkcarswell.com/home/how-to-resign-and-spark-a-tricky-byelection/2931#.WNZzbKeV1F4.twitter
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,903
    edited March 2017
    Flicking through the embers of the last thread 'Isam' and 'Richard Tindle' seemed to be in agreement that UKIP's job was done. The good people of the UK got what they wanted. Out of the EU.They could now close up and congratulate themselves on a job well done.

    Southam Observer posted this from John Harris who seems to me to have a much more informed view of the aims of UKIP and why people voted for them. The EU was barely a McGuffin

    https://www.google.com.hk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/24/britain-alt-right-populists
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Essexit said:

    I'm not so sure he'll return to the Tories. He could remain an independent, and his personal brand in Clacton is strong - barring a strong challenge from Banks he'd have a fair chance of holding on at the GE. He seems like the kind of person who'd never be happy in any party.

    our man Giles pushed him close at the general election so expect he's toast unless he goes tory
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    AlastairMeeks said:

    What in reality is left of UKIP? No MPs, no money, a handful of councillors and a few MEPs who lose their jobs in two years' time. This is a slow motion winding-up of the party.

    To answer my own question, all that's left of UKIP now in reality is the idea.

    Don't they have a Welsh assembly team that now wants to retain all the advantages of being in the Single Market, including access to EU immigrants to work the land?

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited March 2017
    tlg86 said:

    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
    I think we need Mr Herdson for this, but it will be interesting to see what Carswell does. He might just stand down at the next election so no issue. Somehow I just can't see him contesting the seat as an independent. So the question is, how long before the GE does he need to join the Tory Party to be the Tory candidate? And then the next question is, if/when he joins the Tories, does that make him a Tory MP? And should that precipitate a by-election?

    Lots of ifs there, but I'm less comfortable with him calling a by-election when he joined one party but not calling another when he leaves that party.
    FPT, Carswell has taken his first step to rehabilitation and possible return to the Tory party, however, I think Carswell will surprise us all yet, by standing as an independent @GE2020.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    SquareRoot said:

    Mr Smithson... Is UKIP really more dysfunctional that Labour? Surely not ?

    At least when there was a PUKIP, it was a united one! PLP take note.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Yorkcity said:

    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.

    As my second football analogy of the day, it isn't the possession percentage that matters but managing to put the ball in the net more than the other team does.

    UKIP failed to score more than the other teams in all but one game last season, how much aggregate percentage they had is irrelevant.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Essexit said:

    I'm not so sure he'll return to the Tories. He could remain an independent, and his personal brand in Clacton is strong - barring a strong challenge from Banks he'd have a fair chance of holding on at the GE. He seems like the kind of person who'd never be happy in any party.

    our man Giles pushed him close at the general election so expect he's toast unless he goes tory
    Perhaps, then again there may be people who'll vote for an independent, but wouldn't vote UKIP.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    Essexit said:

    SquareRoot said:

    Mr Smithson... Is UKIP really more dysfunctional that Labour? Surely not ?

    At least when there was a PUKIP, it was a united one! PLP take note.
    United parliamentary party (of one) but at daggers drawn with the party in the country - so similar to Labour in that respect.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    isam said:

    Advice for MPs thinking of leaving their party

    "3. Insist on a by-election. Between 1701 and 1918, a by-election had to be called every time an MP was invited to join the government. Think of it as a sort of confirmation hearing. Insist on a by-election to confirm your move with the electorate. It's the only honourable way. Incidentally, there is no disgrace if they do say "No". What would be disgraceful would be to live life subservient to people you cannot respect."

    http://www.talkcarswell.com/home/how-to-resign-and-spark-a-tricky-byelection/2931#.WNZzbKeV1F4.twitter

    You forgot your innocent face... :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    What in reality is left of UKIP? No MPs, no money, a handful of councillors and a few MEPs who lose their jobs in two years' time. This is a slow motion winding-up of the party.

    To answer my own question, all that's left of UKIP now in reality is the idea.

    Don't they have a Welsh assembly team that now wants to retain all the advantages of being in the Single Market, including access to EU immigrants to work the land?

    The current plan is that we won't have access to EU migrants?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
    I think we need Mr Herdson for this, but it will be interesting to see what Carswell does. He might just stand down at the next election so no issue. Somehow I just can't see him contesting the seat as an independent. So the question is, how long before the GE does he need to join the Tory Party to be the Tory candidate? And then the next question is, if/when he joins the Tories, does that make him a Tory MP? And should that precipitate a by-election?

    Lots of ifs there, but I'm less comfortable with him calling a by-election when he joined one party but not calling another when he leaves that party.
    FPT, Carswell has taken his first step to rehabilitation and possible return to the Tory party, however, I think Carswell will surprise us all yet, by standing as an independent @GE2020.
    He's talked of as a potential Speaker.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    isam said:

    Advice for MPs thinking of leaving their party

    "3. Insist on a by-election. Between 1701 and 1918, a by-election had to be called every time an MP was invited to join the government. Think of it as a sort of confirmation hearing. Insist on a by-election to confirm your move with the electorate. It's the only honourable way. Incidentally, there is no disgrace if they do say "No". What would be disgraceful would be to live life subservient to people you cannot respect."

    http://www.talkcarswell.com/home/how-to-resign-and-spark-a-tricky-byelection/2931#.WNZzbKeV1F4.twitter

    He should change the title to "How to resign and avoid a tricky by election!"
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    edited March 2017
    Six months until Carswell is back in the Conservative Party?
    logical_song said:

    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
    I think we need Mr Herdson for this, but it will be interesting to see what Carswell does. He might just stand down at the next election so no issue. Somehow I just can't see him contesting the seat as an independent. So the question is, how long before the GE does he need to join the Tory Party to be the Tory candidate? And then the next question is, if/when he joins the Tories, does that make him a Tory MP? And should that precipitate a by-election?

    Lots of ifs there, but I'm less comfortable with him calling a by-election when he joined one party but not calling another when he leaves that party.
    FPT, Carswell has taken his first step to rehabilitation and possible return to the Tory party, however, I think Carswell will surprise us all yet, by standing as an independent @GE2020.
    He's talked of as a potential Speaker.
    I think it's unlikely he'd be able to generate enough cross-party support...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,093
    Not quite mad enough.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    The results for Clacton in 2015 where:

    UKIP 19,642

    Conservative 16,205

    Labour 6,364

    Green Party 1,184

    Liberal Democrat 812

    If there where to be a By-election, or indeed in 2020 GE with him as an independent I would have thought that he could keep most of the UKIP voters + a sufficiently large portion of the Con voters. to keep the seat.

    Even so, I would not bet against somebody with local knowledge of the seat.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,638
    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
  • trawltrawl Posts: 142
    No surprise but still disappointing; third largest party at the election now unrepresented in the resultant parliament. But to be fair to Carswell he was no doubt acutely aware of that but still felt he had to go.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,638
    Yorkcity said:

    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.

    Bwaahahahahhaha!!!

    :innocent:
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    tlg86 said:

    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
    I think we need Mr Herdson for this, but it will be interesting to see what Carswell does. He might just stand down at the next election so no issue. Somehow I just can't see him contesting the seat as an independent. So the question is, how long before the GE does he need to join the Tory Party to be the Tory candidate? And then the next question is, if/when he joins the Tories, does that make him a Tory MP? And should that precipitate a by-election?

    Lots of ifs there, but I'm less comfortable with him calling a by-election when he joined one party but not calling another when he leaves that party.
    This idea of having a by-election when changing parties is a minority pursuit. It was of great benefit to UKIP because of the publicity generated and because Carswell was pretty sure of winning. Before that I think that most defectors didn't bother with by-elections. There was an SDP MP who did and he lost.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,262
    All's well that Carswell?

    Carswell that ends well?

    Is there room for a Carswellite Libertarian Party on the political spectrum?

    UKIP can focus on the Nationalist Protectionist part of their ideology unimpeded now. They could still cause problems for Labour in 2020. If they still exist.

    (That last sentence is deliberately ambiguous)
  • paulbarkerpaulbarker Posts: 77
    No MPs & after May 4th a lot fewer Councillors. Will that be enough for The BBC to stop bigging them up ? I doubt it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    SandyRentool said:

    All's well that Carswell?

    Carswell that ends well?

    :smiley:
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    logical_song said:

    tlg86 said:

    SimonStClare said:

    tlg86 said:

    It doesn't bother me too much, but given we allow party logos on the ballot paper, I think there should be a by-election.

    As an independent, I see no need for a by-election personally, the Clacton constituency has representation which is really all that matters. A defection to another party would however imo, warrant a by-election.
    I think we need Mr Herdson for this, but it will be interesting to see what Carswell does. He might just stand down at the next election so no issue. Somehow I just can't see him contesting the seat as an independent. So the question is, how long before the GE does he need to join the Tory Party to be the Tory candidate? And then the next question is, if/when he joins the Tories, does that make him a Tory MP? And should that precipitate a by-election?

    Lots of ifs there, but I'm less comfortable with him calling a by-election when he joined one party but not calling another when he leaves that party.
    This idea of having a by-election when changing parties is a minority pursuit. It was of great benefit to UKIP because of the publicity generated and because Carswell was pretty sure of winning. Before that I think that most defectors didn't bother with by-elections. There was an SDP MP who did and he lost.
    Indeed! Before Carswell there had been a 27 year gap, in MPs resining when they defect, when the 40ish MPs defected to for the SDP only one stood down and had a By election (which he lost)
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Essexit said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    Essexit said:

    I'm not so sure he'll return to the Tories. He could remain an independent, and his personal brand in Clacton is strong - barring a strong challenge from Banks he'd have a fair chance of holding on at the GE. He seems like the kind of person who'd never be happy in any party.

    our man Giles pushed him close at the general election so expect he's toast unless he goes tory
    Perhaps, then again there may be people who'll vote for an independent, but wouldn't vote UKIP.
    perhaps true but if there's a hardkipper standing too...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,638
    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Mike = Palpatine?
    TSE = Anakin?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    paulbarker said:

    No MPs & after May 4th a lot fewer Councillors. Will that be enough for The BBC to stop bigging them up ? I doubt it.

    I haven't noticed an over representation of kippers on the BBC, although I only catch a few of the current affair programs.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    Farage is pleased

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/845627800174428162
  • DavidBrackenburyDavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    isam said:

    Advice for MPs thinking of leaving their party

    "3. Insist on a by-election. Between 1701 and 1918, a by-election had to be called every time an MP was invited to join the government. Think of it as a sort of confirmation hearing. Insist on a by-election to confirm your move with the electorate. It's the only honourable way. Incidentally, there is no disgrace if they do say "No". What would be disgraceful would be to live life subservient to people you cannot respect."

    http://www.talkcarswell.com/home/how-to-resign-and-spark-a-tricky-byelection/2931#.WNZzbKeV1F4.twitter

    There were time when by-elections were caled almost as a form of personal duel to prove the incumbent's honour. The great barrister Edward Marshall-Hall in his dispute with His Honour Judge Matthews challenged him to compete in a by-election in his Southport seat. Offer declined...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    edited March 2017
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Mike = Palpatine?
    TSE = Anakin?

    Mortimer = Mace Windu?

    Plato = Aayla Secura?

    ;)
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    BigRich said:

    logical_song said:

    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
    The short money is a good question.

    UKIP are in theory allocated about £650,000 every year based on their votes performance in 2015, however Creswell has not been calming most of that, consistent with his not wasting taxpayers money.

    As I understate it a party is entailed to the money if they get over 150,000 votes and at least one MP at the previous GE. the important bit hear is the getting the MP in the preceding GE? UKIP did not get short money in the last parliament because Creswell (and Recklass) defected and by-elections but where not elected at the preceding GE. by that logic UKIP should still be eligible to the money now. but with out an MP how do they clame it?

    On the Short money, from http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/douglas-carswell-leaves-ukip-become-independent-mp
    "With the party now often polling in single figures, below the Liberal Democrats, the MP has left a sinking ship (taking £217,000 of opposition funding or "short money" with him)."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    OGH has indeed been given emergency powers until the A50 crisis has been averted. ;)
  • DavidBrackenburyDavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Sunil will be on a virtually disused freight-only line near Rotherham and will not be able to be traced. You are on your own...!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    They are still only 8̶ 9 MPs behind the LibDems
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited March 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    Farage is pleased

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/845627800174428162

    Why was there so much animosity between the elected UKIP MP and the 7 or 8 times failure.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    logical_song said:

    BigRich said:

    logical_song said:

    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
    The short money is a good question.

    UKIP are in theory allocated about £650,000 every year based on their votes performance in 2015, however Creswell has not been calming most of that, consistent with his not wasting taxpayers money.

    As I understate it a party is entailed to the money if they get over 150,000 votes and at least one MP at the previous GE. the important bit hear is the getting the MP in the preceding GE? UKIP did not get short money in the last parliament because Creswell (and Recklass) defected and by-elections but where not elected at the preceding GE. by that logic UKIP should still be eligible to the money now. but with out an MP how do they clame it?

    On the Short money, from http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/douglas-carswell-leaves-ukip-become-independent-mp
    "With the party now often polling in single figures, below the Liberal Democrats, the MP has left a sinking ship (taking £217,000 of opposition funding or "short money" with him)."
    Thanks for the Link, I'm not shore that that article is correct. we will see what happens.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    GIN1138 said:

    Farage is pleased

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/845627800174428162

    Farage blames his party's MP.
    Trump blames the opposition for opposing. He would have won if his party had supported him.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-says-both-parties-can-do-better-after-health-care-bill-pulled/
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,943
    DavidBrackenbury said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Sunil will be on a virtually disused freight-only line near Rotherham and will not be able to be traced. You are on your own...!
    :open_mouth:
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.

    As my second football analogy of the day, it isn't the possession percentage that matters but managing to put the ball in the net more than the other team does.

    UKIP failed to score more than the other teams in all but one game last season, how much aggregate percentage they had is irrelevant.
    I disagree it is more like having world cup qualification on a straight knockout basis.So Germany could be playing Argentina in the qualifying stages.The final tournament would not be representative .
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    GIN1138 said:

    Farage is pleased

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/845627800174428162

    With apologies to Mrs Merton
    "What first made you dislike the four times elected MP for Clacton"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Yorkcity said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.

    As my second football analogy of the day, it isn't the possession percentage that matters but managing to put the ball in the net more than the other team does.

    UKIP failed to score more than the other teams in all but one game last season, how much aggregate percentage they had is irrelevant.
    I disagree it is more like having world cup qualification on a straight knockout basis.So Germany could be playing Argentina in the qualifying stages.The final tournament would not be representative .
    There were 650 'games' on election day not one, UKIP competed in almost all of them..
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    SimonStClare said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farage is pleased

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/845627800174428162

    Why was there so much animosity between the elected UKIP MP and the 7 or 8 times failure.
    It's interesting that the attention is on what Nigel Farage thinks, not what the new leader of UKIP thinks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,459
    BigRich said:

    logical_song said:

    BigRich said:

    logical_song said:

    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
    The short money is a good question.

    UKIP are in theory allocated about £650,000 every year based on their votes performance in 2015, however Creswell has not been calming most of that, consistent with his not wasting taxpayers money.

    As I understate it a party is entailed to the money if they get over 150,000 votes and at least one MP at the previous GE. the important bit hear is the getting the MP in the preceding GE? UKIP did not get short money in the last parliament because Creswell (and Recklass) defected and by-elections but where not elected at the preceding GE. by that logic UKIP should still be eligible to the money now. but with out an MP how do they clame it?

    On the Short money, from http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/douglas-carswell-leaves-ukip-become-independent-mp
    "With the party now often polling in single figures, below the Liberal Democrats, the MP has left a sinking ship (taking £217,000 of opposition funding or "short money" with him)."
    Thanks for the Link, I'm not shore that that article is correct. we will see what happens.
    To me, it reads as if UKIP will NOT get this money. House of Commons library report states:

    "Short Money is made available to all opposition parties in the House of Commons that secured either two seats or one seat and more than 150,000 votes at the previous General Election." (my bolding)

    http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01663#fullreport

    UKIP no longer have a presence in the HoCs.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Imagine the mess if Clacton at the next election is Tories vs UKIP vs Arron Banks UKIP Spin-Off vs Independent Carswell.

    It could rival Inverness 1992 for closest 4-way marginal.
  • augustus_carpaugustus_carp Posts: 224
    I know that I ought to be treating this as an important part of the political development of Great Britain in the twenty first century etc, but somehow I just keep on sniggering. Finally, the egos have landed. "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity...."
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.

    As my second football analogy of the day, it isn't the possession percentage that matters but managing to put the ball in the net more than the other team does.

    UKIP failed to score more than the other teams in all but one game last season, how much aggregate percentage they had is irrelevant.
    I disagree it is more like having world cup qualification on a straight knockout basis.So Germany could be playing Argentina in the qualifying stages.The final tournament would not be representative .
    There were 650 'games' on election day not one, UKIP competed in almost all of them..
    Well if you think nearly 4 million votes without representation in parliament if fair nothing will change your mind .The same applies to the greens our democracy deserves differing voices and all votes to count .
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    @mortimer
    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Mike = Palpatine?
    TSE = Anakin?

    Mortimer = Mace Windu?

    Plato = Aayla Secura?

    ;)
    I don't think Mortimer is still banned - at least not according to his avatar.
    Plato still appears to be.

    As for Carswell, can't say I'm surprised he has left Ukip and I think the way he has been treated by Farage and Banks has been unedifying to say the least. That said, having called a by-election to defect to Ukip, surely he has set his own precedent?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,842
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP if you want to - the MP *is* for quitting.

    F1: rumour circulating Wehrlein's very odd decision not to race has more to it than meets the eye.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    LucyJones said:

    @mortimer

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Mike = Palpatine?
    TSE = Anakin?

    Mortimer = Mace Windu?

    Plato = Aayla Secura?

    ;)
    I don't think Mortimer is still banned - at least not according to his avatar.
    Plato still appears to be.

    As for Carswell, can't say I'm surprised he has left Ukip and I think the way he has been treated by Farage and Banks has been unedifying to say the least. That said, having called a by-election to defect to Ukip, surely he has set his own precedent?
    Mortimer posted earlier this morning, so he's off the naughty step for the time being ;)
  • augustus_carpaugustus_carp Posts: 224
    Danny565 said:

    Imagine the mess if Clacton at the next election is Tories vs UKIP vs Arron Banks UKIP Spin-Off vs Independent Carswell.

    It could rival Inverness 1992 for closest 4-way marginal.

    Even more amusing if a Lib Dem Remoaner or a Corbynista came through the middle....
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    BigRich said:

    SimonStClare said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Farage is pleased

    ttps://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/845627800174428162

    Why was there so much animosity between the elected UKIP MP and the 7 or 8 times failure.
    It's interesting that the attention is on what Nigel Farage thinks, not what the new leader of UKIP thinks.
    Nuttall is a weak leader who could have used Carswell’s resignation to raise his profile and rally the membership, but he hasn’t. Farage just can’t stand not being the centre of attention.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    rottenborough said:

    BigRich said:

    logical_song said:

    BigRich said:

    logical_song said:

    isam said:

    Carswell was due to see the UKIP NEC on Monday to explain his behaviour re Farage. UKIP say they haven't benefitted financially from him being in parliament

    I can see why he would not relish meeting UKIP NEC.
    Did UKIP not benefit from Short money?
    http://www.ukipdaily.com/will-ukip-get-westminster-short-money/
    The short money is a good question.

    UKIP are in theory allocated about £650,000 every year based on their votes performance in 2015, however Creswell has not been calming most of that, consistent with his not wasting taxpayers money.

    As I understate it a party is entailed to the money if they get over 150,000 votes and at least one MP at the previous GE. the important bit hear is the getting the MP in the preceding GE? UKIP did not get short money in the last parliament because Creswell (and Recklass) defected and by-elections but where not elected at the preceding GE. by that logic UKIP should still be eligible to the money now. but with out an MP how do they clame it?

    On the Short money, from http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/douglas-carswell-leaves-ukip-become-independent-mp
    "With the party now often polling in single figures, below the Liberal Democrats, the MP has left a sinking ship (taking £217,000 of opposition funding or "short money" with him)."
    Thanks for the Link, I'm not shore that that article is correct. we will see what happens.
    To me, it reads as if UKIP will NOT get this money. House of Commons library report states:

    "Short Money is made available to all opposition parties in the House of Commons that secured either two seats or one seat and more than 150,000 votes at the previous General Election." (my bolding)

    http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01663#fullreport

    UKIP no longer have a presence in the HoCs.
    That link looks convincing to me, thanks.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Yorkcity said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Nearly 4 milion votes for UKIP at the 2015 GE and 1 MP now none.You will never convince me that is fair representation and good for democracy.FPTP stifles us all.

    As my second football analogy of the day, it isn't the possession percentage that matters but managing to put the ball in the net more than the other team does.

    UKIP failed to score more than the other teams in all but one game last season, how much aggregate percentage they had is irrelevant.
    I disagree it is more like having world cup qualification on a straight knockout basis.So Germany could be playing Argentina in the qualifying stages.The final tournament would not be representative .
    There were 650 'games' on election day not one, UKIP competed in almost all of them..
    Well if you think nearly 4 million votes without representation in parliament if fair nothing will change your mind .The same applies to the greens our democracy deserves differing voices and all votes to count .
    Not this myth again. All nearly 4 million of those voters have representation. Their local MP represents them whether they voted for them or not. All votes do count, if UKIP can't be the most popular party in anywhere in the country they'd be better place asking why they're so unpopular with the rest of the voters rather than trying to "fix" the system.
  • DavidBrackenburyDavidBrackenbury Posts: 357
    RobD said:

    LucyJones said:

    @mortimer

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Mike = Palpatine?
    TSE = Anakin?

    Mortimer = Mace Windu?

    Plato = Aayla Secura?

    ;)
    I don't think Mortimer is still banned - at least not according to his avatar.
    Plato still appears to be.

    As for Carswell, can't say I'm surprised he has left Ukip and I think the way he has been treated by Farage and Banks has been unedifying to say the least. That said, having called a by-election to defect to Ukip, surely he has set his own precedent?
    Mortimer posted earlier this morning, so he's off the naughty step for the time being ;)
    What? Plato is out. Heck, I defended Tim in the gold old days and have always been happy to have a turnip (or navette) fight with MalcG!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    DavidBrackenbury said:

    RobD said:

    LucyJones said:

    @mortimer

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Come back to the Blue Team, Douglas! All is forgiven!

    Look out Sunil, PB Brexiteers are being "taken out" one by one... It's like Order 66!!!

    You and I could be next! :open_mouth:
    Mike = Palpatine?
    TSE = Anakin?

    Mortimer = Mace Windu?

    Plato = Aayla Secura?

    ;)
    I don't think Mortimer is still banned - at least not according to his avatar.
    Plato still appears to be.

    As for Carswell, can't say I'm surprised he has left Ukip and I think the way he has been treated by Farage and Banks has been unedifying to say the least. That said, having called a by-election to defect to Ukip, surely he has set his own precedent?
    Mortimer posted earlier this morning, so he's off the naughty step for the time being ;)
    What? Plato is out. Heck, I defended Tim in the gold old days and have always been happy to have a turnip (or navette) fight with MalcG!!
    No doubt she'll be back though, she's an old timer!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,603
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP if you want to - the MP *is* for quitting.

    F1: rumour circulating Wehrlein's very odd decision not to race has more to it than meets the eye.

    That was being very heavily insinuated on BBC's coverage this morning. Sauber also got themselves in a mess with van der Garde a couple of years ago, and it wouldn't surprise me if they'd messed up somehow again. Or not.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    https://twitter.com/owenjbennett/status/845617305946128388
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,842
    Mr. Jessop, you would've thought they'd've learnt their lesson.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    edited March 2017
    https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/845618440031391745

    Adopting their vote share, too :smiley:
  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/845634439438913544
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Danny565 said:

    Imagine the mess if Clacton at the next election is Tories vs UKIP vs Arron Banks UKIP Spin-Off vs Independent Carswell.

    It could rival Inverness 1992 for closest 4-way marginal.

    I doubt the Scottish LibDems will win Clacton in 2020 ....

    Unless their entire membership decides to decamp to Essex-by-the-Sea for some strange reason ....
    :naughty:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,603
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, you would've thought they'd've learnt their lesson.

    Are Sauber still desperate for money? With no Manor this year, they're the team who face coming last and zilch winnings this year (*). Money talks, and I bet whatever's going on is down to money.

    (*) A system that the new owners should be looking at changing asap.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What about the 3.9 million people who voted UKIP in 2015?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,979
    edited March 2017
    Alastair Campbell tells the Remain movement not to give up: “When you see a car heading toward a cliff, you don’t keep driving.

    “The media in this country is a right-wing cartel of tax-dodgers that pretends to speak for their readers when they speak for themselves and their own vested interest,” he adds.

    He could be talking about his bff....Tony Blair.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    AndyJS said:

    What about the 3.9 million people who voted UKIP in 2015?

    The vast majority of which weren't represented by Carswell in the first place (I believe it's a rule that MPs do not take on cases from people not in their constituencies).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,842
    Mr. Jessop, whilst they're not flush, they do, I think, have a slightly better situation now.

    Is it true last gets no money, or does 10th get *something*?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,979
    edited March 2017
    1000 ppl in Edinburgh, 20-25k in London....They aren't exactly the million man march against brexit.

    Even the soap dodging, too lazy to vote, waste of space set of students managed more for their riots against fees.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,842
    Mr. Urquhart, maybe not, but I bet the stick shop is doing a roaring trade. :p
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    JackW said:

    Danny565 said:

    Imagine the mess if Clacton at the next election is Tories vs UKIP vs Arron Banks UKIP Spin-Off vs Independent Carswell.

    It could rival Inverness 1992 for closest 4-way marginal.

    I doubt the Scottish LibDems will win Clacton in 2020 ....

    Unless their entire membership decides to decamp to Essex-by-the-Sea for some strange reason ....
    :naughty:
    Please God no.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, whilst they're not flush, they do, I think, have a slightly better situation now.

    Is it true last gets no money, or does 10th get *something*?

    Mr Dancer, this link is for last year's distribution formula but it may be of some use.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123649

    Yes, everyone gets something.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/845613683128619008
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited March 2017
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    ttps://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/845613683128619008

    That's so dodgy it must have been produced by a LibDem

    Edit to snip bizarre pic
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,650
    edited March 2017
    GeoffM said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/845613683128619008

    That's so dodgy it must have been produced by a LibDem
    Yeah, looks like a factor of ten exaggeration in the size of the bars!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    GeoffM said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/845613683128619008

    That's so dodgy it must have been produced by a LibDem
    Yeah, looks like a factor of ten exaggeration in the size of the bars!
    It hasn't been done in a proper LibDem-style.
    It's missing a "Winning Here!" caption on 23rd June
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    GeoffM said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/845613683128619008

    That's so dodgy it must have been produced by a LibDem
    Yeah, looks like a factor of ten exaggeration in the size of the bars!
    Maybe it shows MPs by ego rather than number.....
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/845613683128619008

    The author clearly lacks the artistic bent of the LibDem school of barchart impressionists.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    isam said:

    https://twitter.com/owenjbennett/status/845617305946128388

    You can send him a thank you letter then I guess since Vote Leave managed to win the referendum.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,842
    Mr. M, cheers.

    It does sound like Liberty want to change things so that it's more attractive to be a small team involved in F1.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,333
    https://twitter.com/michaelpdeacon/status/845614598946504704
  • theakestheakes Posts: 967
    The country is evenly spit on leaving the UK, meaning a small movement to remain since last June. I want to know what happens if it became clear in a years time that say Remain were in front in all the polls by 12 - 20%, which is quite feasible.
This discussion has been closed.

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