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SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited March 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : March 16th 2017

Warbreck on Blackpool (Con defence, death of sitting member) Result: Conservative 728 (55% +18%), Labour 468 (35% +6%), UKIP 75 (6% -13%), Liberal Democrat 57 (4% -3%) Conservative HOLD with a majority of 260 (20%) on a swing of 6% from Labour to Conservative

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Comments

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    1
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    2
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,819
    3 jobs George
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Buckle my shoe. Why is Walton le Dale called a Con HOLD if the bloke has gone Ind, please?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    Donald Trump has said he did not "make an opinion" over claims the UK's GCHQ spy agency carried out wiretapping on him during the US election campaign.

    We said nothing, all we did was quote a certain very talented legal mind who was the one responsible for saying that on TV," said President Trump.
    "I didn't make opinion on it, that was statement made by a very talented lawyer on Fox [News]", he added, saying that reporters "shouldn't be talking to me, you should be talking to Fox".

    Alternative facts...
  • HarryHayfieldHarryHayfield Posts: 55
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Buckle my shoe. Why is Walton le Dale called a Con HOLD if the bloke has gone Ind, please?

    Because he was elected as a Conservative at the last election he contested. All by-elections are compared with the last election that the person who caused the by-election was elected as. In that case he was elected as a Conservative therefore if an Independent had won the seat it would have been classed as an Independent GAIN from Conservative
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HarryHayfield said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Buckle my shoe. Why is Walton le Dale called a Con HOLD if the bloke has gone Ind, please?

    Because he was elected as a Conservative at the last election he contested. All by-elections are compared with the last election that the person who caused the by-election was elected as. In that case he was elected as a Conservative therefore if an Independent had won the seat it would have been classed as an Independent GAIN from Conservative
    Not just by elections. General Elections follow the same principle but looking at the last General Election so Carswell being re-elected in Clacton was a UKIP GAIN from Conservative.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    6....Like the number of jobs Osborne has...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    6....Like the number of jobs Osborne has...

    Osborne needs two more jobs to catch up with your joke now :p
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    Philip_Thompson said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    6....Like the number of jobs Osborne has...

    Osborne needs two more jobs to catch up with your joke now :p
    Sure he will manage it.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HarryHayfield said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Buckle my shoe. Why is Walton le Dale called a Con HOLD if the bloke has gone Ind, please?

    Because he was elected as a Conservative at the last election he contested. All by-elections are compared with the last election that the person who caused the by-election was elected as. In that case he was elected as a Conservative therefore if an Independent had won the seat it would have been classed as an Independent GAIN from Conservative
    Thank you.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,524
    Bit of a damp squib of an election night, given some of the dramatic swings of late.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,678
    edited March 2017
    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    Just noticed it is missing a crucial "more" in the title.. :D
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,577
    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2017
    O/T

    I was in the Any Questions audience tonight. Nice to have some free wine and snacks afterwards, which I wasn't expecting. Michael Heseltine was on top form on the panel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    It is not necessarily a forced choice, most polls still have No ahead in Scotland and Mori tonight has 57% of Scots putting immigration control as most important in the Brexit talks, ahead of the 51% who put the single market first
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/just-44-think-theresa-may-will-get-a-good-deal-on-brexit-a3492401.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,678
    You snooze you lose, TSE :smiley:
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,595
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Those figures will be a boost to the PM and it does look from the article that Nicola may have called this wrong - time will tell
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Tables will probably go up on Monday/Tuesday
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    Don't you start.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    Immigration from England is likely to be a problem, for sure.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,577
    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    All voters. ORB poll of 2000 people.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,678
    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,678
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    So I should put away the Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon? :(
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,577
    edited March 2017
    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    Edited. Read the wrong graph.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    Mori tables now up
    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3858/Four-in-ten-have-confidence-in-May-to-get-a-good-deal-for-Britain-in-Brexit-negotiations.aspx
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
    They think Scotland should be Brexited out of the EU whether they like it or not.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    So I should put away the Scottish Tory Surge Klaxon? :(
    There's enough proper Scottish polls that show a Tory surge that we don't need to rely on sub-samples based on 3 blokes in Aberdeen and 12 Glaswegians.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    edited March 2017
    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    And last week we had an Ipsos Mori Scottish poll that showed Independence winning/neck and neck.

    Odd you chose to ignore that poll, and the other poll from this week which showed the 14% lead was an outlier.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,678
    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
    They think Scotland should be Brexited out of the EU whether they like it or not.
    Such is life in a democracy.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    All voters. ORB poll of 2000 people.
    So the 'I would still back Brexit' score of 50.5 is only 1.5pts lower than the actual Leave vote. Seems close on impossible doesn't it?
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
    They think Scotland should be Brexited out of the EU whether they like it or not.
    They think their fellow Britons from the northern part of the United Kingdom should stay the course just as they said they wanted to.



  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,577
    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    All voters. ORB poll of 2000 people.
    So the 'I would still back Brexit' score of 50.5 is only 1.5pts lower than the actual Leave vote. Seems close on impossible doesn't it?
    Not really. I have not seen any great polling evidence for Brexit voters regretting their decision.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,738
    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
    They think Scotland should be Brexited out of the EU whether they like it or not.
    "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
    They think Scotland should be Brexited out of the EU whether they like it or not.
    "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
    You won't hear many Scottish nationalists disagreeing with the statement that there shouldn't be an EU member state called the United Kingdom.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    edited March 2017
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    And last week we had an Ipsos Mori Scottish poll that showed Independence winning/neck and neck.

    Odd you chose to ignore that poll, and the other poll from this week which showed the 14% lead was an outlier.
    We had 3 polls this week all which give No a clear lead from Survation, Yougov and the Herald/BMG and even the poll you cite has it tied, not a clear Yes lead and that poll was from Mori, the very same pollster who tonight has Scots putting immigration control first (and of course it is perfectly possible to put immigration control as the priority and back independence or the single market as a priority and back the Union but on the whole it shows little real enthusiasm in Scotland for the SNP's slogan of the 'single market or bust')
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    All voters. ORB poll of 2000 people.
    So the 'I would still back Brexit' score of 50.5 is only 1.5pts lower than the actual Leave vote. Seems close on impossible doesn't it?
    Not really. I have not seen any great polling evidence for Brexit voters regretting their decision.
    Fair enough. I'm not one of them but I thought more Leavers would care about the Union
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    All voters. ORB poll of 2000 people.
    So the 'I would still back Brexit' score of 50.5 is only 1.5pts lower than the actual Leave vote. Seems close on impossible doesn't it?
    Not really. I have not seen any great polling evidence for Brexit voters regretting their decision.
    Fair enough. I'm not one of them but I thought more Leavers would care about the Union
    The 'still back Brexit' question doesn't really make sense if it includes Remainers.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    edited March 2017
    williamglenn said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    Is that all voters or just Brexiteers?
    All voters. ORB poll of 2000 people.
    So the 'I would still back Brexit' score of 50.5 is only 1.5pts lower than the actual Leave vote. Seems close on impossible doesn't it?
    Not really. I have not seen any great polling evidence for Brexit voters regretting their decision.
    Fair enough. I'm not one of them but I thought more Leavers would care about the Union
    The 'still back Brexit' question doesn't really make sense if it includes Remainers.
    Yeah I agree, it implies they backed it in the first place. If it is only Brexiteers that completely changes the poll (obviously!)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    Which had C2DEs as firmly against independece, more so that ABC1s, which if true would be a siesmic shock to the Scottish political system.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Gallowgate said:

    3 jobs George

    er...6.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,738
    williamglenn said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    williamglenn said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    RobD said:

    Title says it all - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/brexit-important-keeping-uk-together-public-say-poll-telegraph/

    60% say Brexit more important than keeping the UK together. Only 27% say the opposite. Seems those who consider the UK worth preserving at any cost are very much in the minority.
    But 59% oppose Scottish independence. Clearly they don't think Scotland should have a choice in the matter.
    How does opposition to something mean they don't think they should have a choice? The poll does ask if they should have a choice now, but that is covered in a different question, and also quite distinct from whether they should ever have a choice.
    They think Scotland should be Brexited out of the EU whether they like it or not.
    "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
    You won't hear many Scottish nationalists disagreeing with the statement that there shouldn't be an EU member state called the United Kingdom.
    June 23rd was about the UNITED KINGDOM
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    And last week we had an Ipsos Mori Scottish poll that showed Independence winning/neck and neck.

    Odd you chose to ignore that poll, and the other poll from this week which showed the 14% lead was an outlier.
    We had 3 polls last week all which give No a clear lead from Survation, Yougov and the Herald and even the poll you had has it on the whole it shows little real enthusiasm in Scotland for the SNP's slogan of the 'single market or bust')
    Indeed. The move in Scotland is, if anything, from YES to Don't Know. The (slight) unionist majority remains as solid as ever.

    The unionists in Scotland had everything thrown at them in the indygasm of 2014, they voted NO, nonetheless. Because (as polls show) most of them are at heart Brits, they feel British, and want to stick with Britain. They are also better educated and older, and therefore, one suspects, more set in their ways/convinced of their rightness

    The YES vote is much younger, less well educated, less convinced, and more volatile. The fact the SNP has been veering madly between: stay in the EU, leave the EU but rejoin at once, leave the EU but maybe rejoin after another vote, no, leave the EU like England, Wales and NI but join EFTA. Or maybe EEA? All this will have unnerved them.

    Hence the understandable move to Don't Know. YES voters haven't got a clue where the SNP now stands vis-a-vis the central question, Europe. They literally Don't Know.
    Exactly and while 'vote Yes for an independent Scotland' has some real emotional resonance 'vote Yes for an independent Scotland and freedom from London for 5 minutes and then go back to rule from Brussels instead' does not quite have the same ring to it!!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    What I want to know is: if GCHQ haven't been listening in to Donald Trump's phone calls, what the hell are we paying them for?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    Which had C2DEs as firmly against independece, more so that ABC1s, which if true would be a siesmic shock to the Scottish political system.
    Indeed, it would suggest C2DEs in Scotland who want immigration controlled now see the UK under the leadership of Theresa May as the best way to achieving that, certainly not the Europhile social democratic SNP
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    What I want to know is: if GCHQ haven't been listening in to Donald Trump's phone calls, what the hell are we paying them for?

    Become expert level on Candy crush?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other
    And last week we had an Ipsos Mori Scottish poll that showed Independence winning/neck and neck.

    Odd you chose to ignore that poll, and the other poll from this week which showed the 14% lead was an outlier.
    We had 3 polls last week all which give No a clear lead from Survation, Yougov and the Herald and even the poll you had has it on the whole it shows little real enthusiasm in Scotland for the SNP's slogan of the 'single market or bust')
    Indeed. The move in Scotland is, if anything, from YES to Don't Know. The (slight) unionist majority remains as solid as ever.


    Hence the understandable move to Don't Know. YES voters haven't got a clue where the SNP now stands vis-a-vis the central question, Europe. They literally Don't Know.
    Exactly and while 'vote Yes for an instead' does not quite have the same ring to it!!
    I think it may prove a fatal mistake for the SNP. This hmming and harring between the EU, EEA, EFTA, and so forth.

    They cannae take away oor freedom - oor freedom to be govern'd by the lairds in Strasburg! Or mebbes Oslo!

    It's emotionally incoherent. And until now the SNP has relied, for its vote, on a purely and understandably emotional pull, with a bit of oil money as a sweetener (now gone). Without that emotional clarity and legibility, they may struggle.
    Yes, they cannot make up their mind what they want, first they want to stay in the EU, now they want Brexitlite, if May comes up with a halfway sensible proposal for the EU (which I think she will) ie modest immigration controls with a job offer and some continued budget contributions, she make a complete mockery of Sturgeon's attempts to stir up antipathy to it as a majority of Scots, including a significant number who voted Remain, will be perfectly happy with it
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    Which had C2DEs as firmly against independece, more so that ABC1s, which if true would be a siesmic shock to the Scottish political system.
    Indeed, it would suggest C2DEs in Scotland who want immigration controlled now see the UK under the leadership of Theresa May as the best way to achieving that, certainly not the Europhile social democratic SNP
    Tories win Glasgow?

    I wouldn't bet on it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    SeanT said:

    Incidentally I read an Alex Salmond interview in the FT t'other day, and I saw (wincingly) a very distinct likeness between his persona and my own.

    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    Dream the fuck on. Salmond is not better than his rivals. Neither are you (no offence). You are both good at what you do but are far from in the Nigel Farage/Ben Okri camp.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,738
    "A misguided endorsement from one of America’s most hated figures only serves to make the fury here sound even more righteous"

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/mar/16/depeche-mode-spirit-review-stripped-back-amped-up-and-angry
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    And last week we had an Ipsos Mori Scottish poll that showed Independence winning/neck and neck.

    Odd you chose to ignore that poll, and the other poll from this week which showed the 14% lead was an outlier.
    We had 3 polls last week all which give No a clear lead from Survation, Yougov and the Herald and even the poll you had has it on the whole it shows little real enthusiasm in Scotland for the SNP's slogan of the 'single market or bust')
    Indeed. The move in Scotland is, if anything, from YES to Don't Know. The (slight) unionist majority remains as solid as ever.


    Hence the understandable move to Don't Know. YES voters haven't got a clue where the SNP now stands vis-a-vis the central question, Europe. They literally Don't Know.
    Exactly and while 'vote Yes for an independent Scotland' has some real emotional resonance 'vote Yes for an independent Scotland and freedom from London for 5 minutes and then go back to rule from Brussels instead' does not quite have the same ring to it!!
    I think it may prove a fatal mistake for the SNP. This hmming and harring between the EU, EEA, EFTA, and so forth.

    They cannae take away oor freedom - oor freedom to be govern'd by the lairds in Strasburg! Or mebbes Oslo!

    It's emotionally incoherent. And until now the SNP has relied, for its vote, on a purely and understandably emotional pull, with a bit of oil money as a sweetener (now gone). Without that emotional clarity and legibility, they may struggle.
    Sean: how's your mini doing? Or have you traded up to since your continued success? ;)

    (as discussed FPT)
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Bill Gates is watching the tennis tonight......Gates with his 85 billions dollars makes more money in interest watching this one tennis match than the winner makes.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    edited March 2017
    Pong said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    There have been other polls by other pollsters which also show Scots put immigration control first and given we had a Yougov poll this week with a 14% lead for No in any indyref2 it seems to be in line with the trend
    Which had C2DEs as firmly against independece, more so that ABC1s, which if true would be a siesmic shock to the Scottish political system.
    Indeed, it would suggest C2DEs in Scotland who want immigration controlled now see the UK under the leadership of Theresa May as the best way to achieving that, certainly not the Europhile social democratic SNP
    Tories win Glasgow?

    I wouldn't bet on it.
    Well I would not go that far, Yes won it even in 2014
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    tyson said:

    Bill Gates is watching the tennis tonight......Gates with his 85 billions dollars makes more money in interest watching this one tennis match than the winner makes.....

    I have a lot of time for Gates and his charitable foundations but for the richest man in the world he does live a pretty ordinary lifestyle, beyond having a few nice homes
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Incidentally I read an Alex Salmond interview in the FT t'other day, and I saw (wincingly) a very distinct likeness between his persona and my own.

    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    Dream the fuck on. Salmond is not better than his rivals. Neither are you (no offence). You are both good at what you do but are far from in the Nigel Farage/Ben Okri camp.
    Jesus. LOL. With all due respect I am a fuck of a lot better than Ben Okri, in the same way that Alex Salmond is better than, say, David Cameron.
    That is a very funny post.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    SeanT said:

    I am a fuck of a lot better than Ben Okri

    'Ark at 'im!
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    Great film on BBC2 at 105am - A Simple Plan
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    edited March 2017


    I have a lot of time for Gates and his charitable foundations but for the richest man in the world he does live a pretty ordinary lifestyle, beyond having a few nice homes
    His reddit AMAs are interesting for how 'normal' he comes across. Normal, at least, for a reader of reddit.

    Edit:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5whpqs/im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill_melinda_gates/
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    SeanT said:

    Incidentally I read an Alex Salmond interview in the FT t'other day, and I saw (wincingly) a very distinct likeness between his persona and my own.

    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    I had to re-read that to make sure you weren't talking about Trump.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Fair enough comment about Gates...


    One of the things I dislike about many people with money is that they want to show it...for what?
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    Bill Gates is watching the tennis tonight......Gates with his 85 billions dollars makes more money in interest watching this one tennis match than the winner makes.....

    I have a lot of time for Gates and his charitable foundations but for the richest man in the world he does live a pretty ordinary lifestyle, beyond having a few nice homes
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    JosiasJessop said:



    I have a lot of time for Gates and his charitable foundations but for the richest man in the world he does live a pretty ordinary lifestyle, beyond having a few nice homes
    His reddit AMAs are interesting for how 'normal' he comes across. Normal, at least, for a reader of reddit.

    Edit:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5whpqs/im_bill_gates_cochair_of_the_bill_melinda_gates/

    Yes, good to see he is open to any question
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,247
    MyBurningEars said:

    FPT

    OldKingCole said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    nunu said:

    Their toddler, a girl, is now reportedly looked after by her 28-year-old grandmother while the teenage mother attends school.

    28 year old grand mother?!!!!!

    Most people in my family are grandparents between 30 and 35, so I don't regard 28 as particularly remarkable - though it's obviously sad. My nan was a great-grandma by her 40s.

    I haven't managed to sprog yet. I'm obviously a late-comer.
    Are you a rabbit?
    My breeding record is insufficiently lagomorphic for that.

    Does make me query that oft-flaunted hypothesis about society going to pan because the Lower Orders are outbreeding their superiors, and how even quite social-liberal lefty middle-class types are desperately afraid of their children mixing with "chavs" and at times veer into support for some sort of eugenic program to protect the nation's genetic stock. My cousins may well have more kids than GCSEs and no indication of ever getting a job, let alone savings or financial security; I've been fortunate to study at some of the best-known institutions of learning in the land, have more letters behind my name than in my name and am well on track to be a multi-millionaire.

    Whatever the heck the initial difference that opened up this grand divergence in life courses is, we've surely got too many genes in common for it to be the DNA. And while I've worked hard to get where I have, the Tory/liberal idea of destiny being in your own hands doesn't ring true either - by the time I was old enough to be consciously, proactively slogging away, a lot of formative events, other people's choices, had already set me up on my path. If they'd had my life chances, where would they be? If I'd been in their situation, would I be a grandfather by now? There's a bit of "there but for the grace" in it all.
    https://xkcd.com/603/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    Incidentally I read an Alex Salmond interview in the FT t'other day, and I saw (wincingly) a very distinct likeness between his persona and my own.

    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    Dream the fuck on. Salmond is not better than his rivals. Neither are you (no offence). You are both good at what you do but are far from in the Nigel Farage/Ben Okri camp.
    Jesus. LOL. With all due respect I am a fuck of a lot better than Ben Okri, in the same way that Alex Salmond is better than, say, David Cameron.
    That is a very funny post.
    My point is also quite acute, if you examine it.
    Hmm. Well you can add gauche to your list of attributes with such a response but that's cool.

    Ben Okri is a visionary, a poet, a sublime writer. Are you trying to compare yourself with him? Or are you trying to make the analogy with David Cameron?

    It really doesn't seem acute to me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,247
    tyson said:

    Bill Gates is watching the tennis tonight......Gates with his 85 billions dollars makes more money in interest watching this one tennis match than the winner makes.....

    Only his money is not sitting in the bank.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    HYUFD said:


    Yes, good to see he is open to any question

    Question to Bill Gates:
    Do you ever disguise yourself and just walk around incognito?

    First sentence of answer:
    I sometimes wear a hat.

    Question to Bill Gates:
    Hello Bill Gates. What is your idea of success?

    First sentence of answer:
    Warren Buffett has always said the measure is whether the people close to you are happy and love you.

    Two reasons Gates was also classier than Jobs, who did not even acknowledge his own daughter (even when naming an f'ing computer after her).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,898
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Those figures will be a boost to the PM and it does look from the article that Nicola may have called this wrong - time will tell
    Lol.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,898
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pong said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/842854778673750018

    Frustrating that there's no link to tables. I can't find anything on google/orb's website either.

    Anyway, if those %'ages are all voters (and not just brexit voters) then the union really is dead.

    Goodbye UK. Goodbye Britain.

    (sell sterling)

    (buy arms shares)
    Nope, not when Mori tonight is showing Scots too put immigration control as their number 1 priority
    You really shouldn't spin a Scottish sub-sample as a full Scottish poll.
    Again.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    Note: I often wear a hat. Evidently having many billions of US dollars is not predicated on the occasional wearing of a hat. Damnit.

    I also occasionally wear a balaclava. I'd have *loved* it if Gates had gone incognito by wearing a balaclava ...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,898
    SeanT said:

    Incidentally I read an Alex Salmond interview in the FT t'other day, and I saw (wincingly) a very distinct likeness between his persona and my own.

    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    Not sure about the champers nipple thing mind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    tyson said:

    Fair enough comment about Gates...


    One of the things I dislike about many people with money is that they want to show it...for what?

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    Bill Gates is watching the tennis tonight......Gates with his 85 billions dollars makes more money in interest watching this one tennis match than the winner makes.....

    I have a lot of time for Gates and his charitable foundations but for the richest man in the world he does live a pretty ordinary lifestyle, beyond having a few nice homes
    Gates is rich enough he does not need to display it so overtly, that does not apply to the likes of Trump and Sir Philip Green who are a bit lower down the billionaire league table
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,816
    SeanT said:



    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    At least you don't have an elderly motherwife yet. Cling on to that.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    Am I better than Ben Okri?

    Here's the Goodreads account for his one big book. This isn't critics, this is actual READERS

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101094.The_Famished_Road

    He's got 8,000 reviews, and a 3.73 rating. Pretty damn bloody good.

    But no other book, by him, gets anywhere near 1000 reviews. Indeed his record is feeble.

    Here's the Ice Twins.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    It has a slightly lower rating, 3.69, but it has more than 20,000 reviews. More than twice as many.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    Moreover, on top of that, as, say, Tom Knox, I have accrued another 10,000 reviews or more, comprehensively outranking Mr Okri who doesn't seem to have published anything since godknowswhen

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6361796-the-genesis-secret?from_search=true

    I humbly submit that I am therefore *better* than Ben Okri in the same way that Alex Salmond is *better* than David Cameron. Okri got the one big prize, the Booker, the premiership, but he got it because of extraneous factors (along with being a smart bloke) then apparently fucked up. I have shown persistence over time, like the magical realist chameleon of Scottish politics, and have succeeded in many different genres, with more people flocking to my personal cause.

    Who listens to Cameron now? No one. Salmond still exerts a dangerous influence over UK politics.

    Who waits for the next Okri novel? No one. My next book will be published around the world.

    I am more successful than any of you because I have walked 6,266.5 (*) miles in one walk.

    It's about as accurate as trying to compare your styles of writing. You're a populist, and a good and successful one. He goes for another sort of market, and the crossover between the two are rare. And good luck to both of you.

    As an aside, haven't you both one thing in common: you've both won the 'bad sex in fiction' award? :)

    (*) Approximately. I might be out by a few hundred yards ...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    Am I better than Ben Okri?

    Here's the Goodreads account for his one big book. This isn't critics, this is actual READERS

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101094.The_Famished_Road

    He's got 8,000 reviews, and a 3.73 rating. Pretty damn bloody good.

    But no other book, by him, gets anywhere near 1000 reviews. Indeed his record is feeble.

    Here's the Ice Twins.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    It has a slightly lower rating, 3.69, but it has more than 20,000 reviews. More than twice as many.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    Moreover, on top of that, as, say, Tom Knox, I have accrued another 10,000 reviews or more, comprehensively outranking Mr Okri who doesn't seem to have published anything since godknowswhen

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6361796-the-genesis-secret?from_search=true

    I humbly submit that I am therefore *better* than Ben Okri in the same way that Alex Salmond is *better* than David Cameron. Okri got the one big prize, the Booker, the premiership, but he got it because of extraneous factors (along with being a smart bloke) then apparently fucked up. I have shown persistence over time, like the magical realist chameleon of Scottish politics, and have succeeded in many different genres, with more people flocking to my personal cause.

    Who listens to Cameron now? No one. Salmond still exerts a dangerous influence over UK politics.

    Who waits for the next Okri novel? No one. My next book will be published around the world.

    Listen. You are fucking brilliant at what you do. And in art terms there is no good or bad there is just opinion, and I don't say that in a why didn't Beryl Cook win the Turner sense.

    Then there are audiences. Who prefers Malevich to Jack Vettriano? Or Ben Okri to you? All a matter of taste.

    I'm sure you do believe that Alex Salmond is better than his rivals but if we compare him to other nationalists eg Nigel Farage, then he Is a failure, or at least "worse".

    I'm reluctant to make the analogy with you because you seem understandably sensitive about it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    SeanT said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I better than Ben Okri?

    Here's the Goodreads account for his one big book. This isn't critics, this is actual READERS

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101094.The_Famished_Road

    He's got 8,000 reviews, and a 3.73 rating. Pretty damn bloody good.

    But no other book, by him, gets anywhere near 1000 reviews. Indeed his record is feeble.

    Here's the Ice Twins.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    It has a slightly lower rating, 3.69, but it has more than 20,000 reviews. More than twice as many.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    Moreover, on top of that, as, say, Tom Knox, I have accrued another 10,000 reviews or more, comprehensively outranking Mr Okri who doesn't seem to have published anything since godknowswhen

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6361796-the-genesis-secret?from_search=true

    I humbly submit that I am therefore *better* than Ben Okri in the same way that Alex Salmond is *better* than David Cameron. Okri got the one big prize, the Booker, the premiership, but he got it because of extraneous factors (along with being a smart bloke) then apparently fucked up. I have shown persistence over time, like the magical realist chameleon of Scottish politics, and have succeeded in many different genres, with more people flocking to my personal cause.

    Who listens to Cameron now? No one. Salmond still exerts a dangerous influence over UK politics.

    Who waits for the next Okri novel? No one. My next book will be published around the world.

    I am more successful than any of you because I have walked 6,266.5 (*) miles in one walk.

    It's about as accurate as trying to compare your styles of writing. You're a populist, and a good and successful one. He goes for another sort of market, and the crossover between the two are rare. And good luck to both of you.

    As an aside, haven't you both one thing in common: you've both won the 'bad sex in fiction' award? :)

    (*) Approximately. I might be out by a few hundred yards ...
    We have indeed both won the Bad Sex in Fiction award, but I GOT MY PRIZE GIVEN TO ME BY MICK JAGGER, where he didn't even show up, I don't think

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1048022.stm

    So I win there, as well.
    I quite like the way the BBC link you gave misses out the repeated Aiwas that are mentioned in a Guardian article.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/nov/30/books.booksnews1

    It's like the BBC were afraid it was a little too sexual ...

    Oh, and you look really young in that picture with Jagger. What went wrong? ;)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,816
    SeanT said:

    Am I better than Ben Okri?

    Here's the Goodreads account for his one big book. This isn't critics, this is actual READERS

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101094.The_Famished_Road

    He's got 8,000 reviews, and a 3.73 rating. Pretty damn bloody good.

    But no other book, by him, gets anywhere near 1000 reviews. Indeed his record is feeble.

    Here's the Ice Twins.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    It has a slightly lower rating, 3.69, but it has more than 20,000 reviews. More than twice as many.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    Moreover, on top of that, as, say, Tom Knox, I have accrued another 10,000 reviews or more, comprehensively outranking Mr Okri who doesn't seem to have published anything since godknowswhen

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6361796-the-genesis-secret?from_search=true

    I humbly submit that I am therefore *better* than Ben Okri in the same way that Alex Salmond is *better* than David Cameron. Okri got the one big prize, the Booker, the premiership, but he got it because of extraneous factors (along with being a smart bloke) then apparently fucked up. I have shown persistence over time, like the magical realist chameleon of Scottish politics, and have succeeded in many different genres, with more people flocking to my personal cause.

    Who listens to Cameron now? No one. Salmond still exerts a dangerous influence over UK politics.

    Who waits for the next Okri novel? No one. My next book will be published around the world.

    Jesus. Third tier purveyor of airport bookshop dreck mathematically proves he's better then Ben Okri. Now use Euclidian geometry to demonstrate your superiority over Thomas Pynchon.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    Dura_Ace said:

    SeanT said:

    Am I better than Ben Okri?

    Here's the Goodreads account for his one big book. This isn't critics, this is actual READERS

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101094.The_Famished_Road

    He's got 8,000 reviews, and a 3.73 rating. Pretty damn bloody good.

    But no other book, by him, gets anywhere near 1000 reviews. Indeed his record is feeble.

    Here's the Ice Twins.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    It has a slightly lower rating, 3.69, but it has more than 20,000 reviews. More than twice as many.

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23553419-the-ice-twins?from_search=true

    Moreover, on top of that, as, say, Tom Knox, I have accrued another 10,000 reviews or more, comprehensively outranking Mr Okri who doesn't seem to have published anything since godknowswhen

    http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6361796-the-genesis-secret?from_search=true

    I humbly submit that I am therefore *better* than Ben Okri in the same way that Alex Salmond is *better* than David Cameron. Okri got the one big prize, the Booker, the premiership, but he got it because of extraneous factors (along with being a smart bloke) then apparently fucked up. I have shown persistence over time, like the magical realist chameleon of Scottish politics, and have succeeded in many different genres, with more people flocking to my personal cause.

    Who listens to Cameron now? No one. Salmond still exerts a dangerous influence over UK politics.

    Who waits for the next Okri novel? No one. My next book will be published around the world.

    Jesus. Third tier purveyor of airport bookshop dreck mathematically proves he's better then Ben Okri. Now use Euclidian geometry to demonstrate your superiority over Thomas Pynchon.
    Naughty. Sean is evidently quite sensitive about it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,738
    edited March 2017
    Finally going back to work next week, albeit for a couple months (short-term extesnion), so I decided to bring my six-week "Northern Expedition" to an end today. All in all, a resounding success :)

    Sunil's Great British Railway Journeys - 2017 Edition. Rail routes that Sunil has done for the first time - excludes journeys taken to reach said routes. Other routes were done for the first time in previous calendar years.

    January: Doncaster to Hull via Selby, Chester to Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Bank Quay to Newton-le-Willows.
    London area: Bermondsey Dive-under (London Bridge to New Cross Gate), Hayes & Harlington "new" bay platform, Heathrow Airport junction new layout (slow tracks).

    February: Sheffield to Lincoln, Swinton (Yorks.) to Fitzwilliam, Leeds to York (direct), Doncaster to Cleethorpes, Guide Bridge to Rose Hill, Leeds to Skipton, Deansgate to Leyland, Preston to Blackpool North, Blackpool Tramway (Fleetwood Ferry to Starr Gate), Manchester Victoria to Mirfield via Brighouse, Leeds to Sowerby Bridge via Bradford Interchange, Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria to Southport, Wigan Wallgate to Kirkby, Chinley to Ashburys (Manchester), Preston to Ormskirk, Moorthorpe to Church Fenton (via Pontefract Baghill), Meadowhall to Leeds (via Barnsley and Castleford), Woodlesford to Normanton (direct), Kirkstall Forge to Ilkley, Guiseley to Bradford Forster Square, Frizinghall to Saltaire, Micklefield to Selby, York to Scarborough, Castleford to Knottingley, Pontefract Monkhill to Wakefield Kirkgate, Leeds to York (via Harrogate), Deansgate to Exchange Square (Metrolink), Manchester Victoria to Newton-le-Willows.
    London area: Heathrow Airport junction new layout (fast tracks), West Ealing new bay platform (Greenford shuttle).

    March: Bolton to Hindley via Westhoughton, Oxford Road to Wigan NW (direct), Doncaster to Pontefract Monkhill, Wakefield Kirkgate to Mirfield, Brighouse to Halifax, Preston to Colne, Kirkham and Wesham to Blackpool South, Todmorden to Rose Grove (Burnley), Bolton to Clitheroe, Huddersfield to Barnsley, Newcastle Central to Airport (Metro), South Gosforth to St James via Whitley Bay (Metro), Newcastle Central to South Hylton (Metro), Pelaw to South Shields (Metro), Newcastle to Sunderland (via High Level Bridge), Newcastle to Carlisle (inc. Metrocentre via High Level Bridge).

  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Dura_Ace said:

    SeanT said:



    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    At least you don't have an elderly motherwife yet. Cling on to that.

    By his fingernails....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    edited March 2017
    SeanT said:

    I know, I look so young in that photo. The weird thing is, I was clean of heroin for about.... a week... before that prize giving!

    So in terms of ageing, I blame the heroin. I should never have stopped. If I'd carried on, I'd now look about 23.

    Your old addiction highlights your problem. Your existence is essentially futile (*) You make a very healthy living out of writing great pulp. You don't produce any great insights or help to the readers' existence; you just provide a few hours of modest entertainment.

    But take my surgeon. He took a young man who suffered bouts of intense pain, and who often could hardly walk, and fixed him. Fifteen months after the last operation I was walking the Pennine Way. A couple of years after that I was walking thousands of miles. He *changed* my life. And I was just one of hundreds, possibly thousands, of people he helped, from presidents to plebs like me.

    You get very handsomely rewarded, but it is essentially meaningless. If you;re looking at the value you give people, then Dr Sox (as one example) probably deserves far more reward than you.

    Yet that is the unfairness of life. Rewards are out of proportion to deeds. (**)

    Edit: I'm not trying to be nasty. I quite like your books.

    (*) as is mine, to a certain extent.
    (**) That also applies to me. No-one's ever looked at a digital radio and thought; "My God, I'm a better person for listening to that!"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,898
    Dura_Ace said:

    SeanT said:



    He's a narcissist, and he's bipolar, and he's convinced he's better than his rivals (with some evidence), but deep down he also suspects (rightly) - tho he will not admit it in public - that much of his success is sheer dumb fucking luck, and down to unexpected incompetence from competitors. And he knows and fears this situation will end. So he panics as time passes, and he ages.

    At least you don't have an elderly motherwife yet. Cling on to that.

    Nor an elderly fatherhusband with a nubile daughterwife.
    Yet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    I appear to have mistyped the URL...this doesn't appear to be politicialbetting.com
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,941
    SeanT said:

    For Josias:

    The actual winning "Bad Sex" passage from Kissing England is quite impressively outrageous and notably obscene. None of the papers were brave enough to publish it in full. Here it is. The "hero" - i.e. me aged 32, and fatally screwed up on drugs - is about to bed his 17 year old girlfriend (based on my then school-age girlfriend). And with this, I shall asleep, mayhap to watch Stranger Things.

    ***

    'In Katy's bedroom Katy is step-by-step taking her clothes off and Alex's heart is working so fast he feels endangered, overbuzzed, like a student on too much speed. Stuck with his addiction Alex watches, obsessing, as Katy undoes her jeans, he wants so much to strip the clothes off her quickly, he wants so much to take his time and do it slowly.

    - We better be quick my mum will be home soon

    Needing no more Alex rips off his strides; his shorts; showing her his erection he motions with a hand; she understands:

    - You mean I have to put all of that in my mouth?

    Oh God. Oh yes.

    Hopeful, wistful, mouthful of spit, he watches her little hand around his c*ck and he waits for as long as he can; but then he can't: then he goes: down: to her rose of c*nt, where he licks her between, smelling the scent of a St Malo restaurant on a winter's evening, lost in the thick soft furrier’s sample; lost in the young Czarina of her c*nt. Oh yes.

    Cunni. Cunniling. Cunnilinguling. Cunnilingulingilinguling

    Gagging, enjoying, gagging; Alex licks, works, and considers the fact that Katy is the only women he enjoys licking out. He considers this: dismisses it. Dangerous, dangerous. Why shoud he enjoy cunnilingus with her and no-one else? Scientific, Alex lays off his tongue and considers the taste. It is, he feels, one of those very nearly disgusting lovely tastes that can so easily tip over into compete disgustingness. Like burnt charcoal peppers in oil. Like oysters. Olives. Anchovy butter. Like so much seafood. Like c*nt.

    But because he loves her, Katy, he loves the taste.. the taste of the blood, from her warwound, from the scartissue, from where she was Islamically mutilated; ohyes he loves it, loves the kowtow, yes he loves the taste.

    But not that much. It is time, time to fuck her. Now. Yes. Brupt, he rises, turns her over, flips
    her white body. Her smallwhite tidy body. She is so small and so compact, and yet she has all the necessary features... Shall I compare thee to a Sony Walkman, thou are more compact and more

    She is his own Toshiba, his dinky little JVC, his sweet Aiwa

    - Aiwa - She says, as he enters her slimy red-peppers-in-olive-oil c*nt - Aiwa, aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwaaaaaaaaah

    ****

    Exeunt.

    PB afterhours!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,898
    SeanT said:

    For Josias:

    The actual winning "Bad Sex" passage from Kissing England is quite impressively outrageous and notably obscene. None of the papers were brave enough to publish it in full. Here it is. The "hero" - i.e. me aged 32, and fatally screwed up on drugs - is about to bed his 17 year old girlfriend (based on my then school-age girlfriend). And with this, I shall asleep, mayhap to watch Stranger Things.

    ***

    'In Katy's bedroom Katy is step-by-step taking her clothes off and Alex's heart is working so fast he feels endangered, overbuzzed, like a student on too much speed. Stuck with his addiction Alex watches, obsessing, as Katy undoes her jeans, he wants so much to strip the clothes off her quickly, he wants so much to take his time and do it slowly.

    - We better be quick my mum will be home soon

    Needing no more Alex rips off his strides; his shorts; showing her his erection he motions with a hand; she understands:

    - You mean I have to put all of that in my mouth?

    Oh God. Oh yes.

    Hopeful, wistful, mouthful of spit, he watches her little hand around his c*ck and he waits for as long as he can; but then he can't: then he goes: down: to her rose of c*nt, where he licks her between, smelling the scent of a St Malo restaurant on a winter's evening, lost in the thick soft furrier’s sample; lost in the young Czarina of her c*nt. Oh yes.

    Cunni. Cunniling. Cunnilinguling. Cunnilingulingilinguling

    Gagging, enjoying, gagging; Alex licks, works, and considers the fact that Katy is the only women he enjoys licking out. He considers this: dismisses it. Dangerous, dangerous. Why shoud he enjoy cunnilingus with her and no-one else? Scientific, Alex lays off his tongue and considers the taste. It is, he feels, one of those very nearly disgusting lovely tastes that can so easily tip over into compete disgustingness. Like burnt charcoal peppers in oil. Like oysters. Olives. Anchovy butter. Like so much seafood. Like c*nt.

    But because he loves her, Katy, he loves the taste.. the taste of the blood, from her warwound, from the scartissue, from where she was Islamically mutilated; ohyes he loves it, loves the kowtow, yes he loves the taste.

    But not that much. It is time, time to fuck her. Now. Yes. Brupt, he rises, turns her over, flips
    her white body. Her smallwhite tidy body. She is so small and so compact, and yet she has all the necessary features... Shall I compare thee to a Sony Walkman, thou are more compact and more

    She is his own Toshiba, his dinky little JVC, his sweet Aiwa

    - Aiwa - She says, as he enters her slimy red-peppers-in-olive-oil c*nt - Aiwa, aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwa aiwaaaaaaaaah

    ****

    Exeunt.

    Eat your..er..heart out, Ben.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    For SeanT:

    That's awful. Truly awful. Wondrously, hideously, brilliantly awful.

    The only question is whether you intended it to be ...

    But writing about sex is odd at the best of times. Would you do the same for someone going to the toilet?

    "He glanced at the bowl. Armitage shanks. Who was Armitage, he wondered. But Armitage was here now, ready to be defiled. Wanting to be defiled. Like a priest who had sinned, knowing the confessional flush would cleanse him. A dirty act, then a cleansing, ready to be soiled once more. It was so easy for Armitage; the pull of a lever and it'd be clean. But he knew however long he sat, however much he expunged himself, he'd never truly be clean. There was not a cistern big enough to cleanse him."

    I'll get my coat.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,531
    Daily Telegraph - Nicola Sturgeon blinks first in battle with Theresa May over independence referendum timing
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,816
    I think this has turned me from a Remainer to a Leaver.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/mar/16/british-expats-in-spain-count-the-costa-brexit-video
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    fitalass said:

    Daily Telegraph - Nicola Sturgeon blinks first in battle with Theresa May over independence referendum timing

    Bunkum.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    SeanT said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    SeanT said:

    I know, I look so young in that photo. The weird thing is, I was clean of heroin for about.... a week... before that prize giving!

    So in terms of ageing, I blame the heroin. I should never have stopped. If I'd carried on, I'd now look about 23.

    Your old addiction highlights your problem. Your existence is essentially futile (*) You make a very healthy living out of writing great pulp. You don't produce any great insights or help to the readers' existence; you just provide a few hours of modest entertainment.

    But take my surgeon. He took a young man who suffered bouts of intense pain, and who often could hardly walk, and fixed him. Fifteen months after the last operation I was walking the Pennine Way. A couple of years after that I was walking thousands of miles. He *changed* my life. And I was just one of hundreds, possibly thousands, of people he helped, from presidents to plebs like me.

    You get very handsomely rewarded, but it is essentially meaningless. If you;re looking at the value you give people, then Dr Sox (as one example) probably deserves far more reward than you.

    Yet that is the unfairness of life. Rewards are out of proportion to deeds. (**)

    (*) as is mine, to a certain extent.
    (**) That also applies to me. No-one's ever looked at a digital radio and thought; "My God, I'm a better person for listening to that!"
    When you are older and wiser, like me, you will understand the incredible value of providing "a few hours modest entertainment".

    The ability to make a human lose themselves, and their worries, in an absorbing and enjoyable story - in TV, drama, fiction, movies- is very rare, and it is much desired. And this is why it is "overpaid". Lots of people can fix an ankle. Not everyone can make you actually forget your intrinsic sadness, for an afternoon, or maybe even a weekend.
    You may be older, but you'll only be wiser than me when you can implement RFC 821 ... ;)

    There are many ways of providing incredible value. I enjoy your books (although reading one whilst camping freaked me out a little), but I read many books a year. The enjoyment is pleasant, but fleeting.

    The point is that *lots* of people could not fix an ankle. Some tried and failed. He succeeded. Don't underestimate the value of a craftsman. You can craft words. He could craft health. Which is more valuable?

    Oh, and I don't have an 'intrinsic sadness'. If I did, I might have wasted much of my life addicted to drugs instead of endlessly and pointlessly walking. Oh, hang on ... :)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,713
    MyBurningEars said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    For SeanT:

    That's awful. Truly awful. Wondrously, hideously, brilliantly awful.

    The only question is whether you intended it to be ...

    But writing about sex is odd at the best of times. Would you do the same for someone going to the toilet?

    "He glanced at the bowl. Armitage shanks. Who was Armitage, he wondered. But Armitage was here now, ready to be defiled. Wanting to be defiled. Like a priest who had sinned, knowing the confessional flush would cleanse him. A dirty act, then a cleansing, ready to be soiled once more. It was so easy for Armitage; the pull of a lever and it'd be clean. But he knew however long he sat, however much he expunged himself, he'd never truly be clean. There was not a cistern big enough to cleanse him."

    I'll get my coat.

    That's not bad.

    For something being deliberately bad.

    I am not sure whether that makes it the good kind of bad or the bad kind of bad, though.
    Thanks. I think. :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,898
    edited March 2017
    Wonder how many Unionists will temporarily pretend Goggsy's a genius this time round.

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/842891817586769920
  • OUTOUT Posts: 569
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Wonder how many Unionists will temporarily pretend Goggsy's a genius this time round.

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/842891817586769920

    Is it really 90p for that pish?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    JosiasJessop said:

    SeanT said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    SeanT said:

    I know, I look so young in that photo. The weird thing is, I was clean of heroin for about.... a week... before that prize giving!

    So in terms of ageing, I blame the heroin. I should never have stopped. If I'd carried on, I'd now look about 23.

    Your old addiction highlights your problem. Your existence is essentially futile (*) You make a very healthy living y great insights or help to the readers' existence; you just provide a few hours of modest entertainment.

    But take my surgeon. He took a young man who suffered bouts of intense pain, and who often could hardly walk, and fixed him. Fifteen months after the last operation I was walking the Pennine Way. A couple of years after that I was walking thousands of miles. He *changed* my life. And I was just one of hundreds, possibly thousands, of people he helped, from presidents to plebs like me.

    You get very handsomely rewarded, but it is essentially meaningless. If you;re looking at the value you give people, then Dr Sox (as one example) probably deserves far more reward than you.

    Yet that is the unfairness of life. Rewards are out of proportion to deeds. (**)

    (*) as is mine, to a certain extent.
    (**) That also applies to me. No-one's ever looked at a digital radio and thought; "My God, I'm a better person for listening to that!"
    When you are older and wiser, like me, you will understand the incredible value of providing "a few hours modest entertainment".

    The ability to make a human lose themselves, and their worries, in an absorbing and enjoyable story - in TV, drama, fiction, movies- is very rare, and it is much desired. And this is why it is "overpaid". Lots of people can fix an ankle. Not everyone can make you actually forget your intrinsic sadness, for an afternoon, or maybe even a weekend.
    You may be older, but you'll only be wiser than me when you can implement RFC 821 ... ;)

    There are many ways of providing incredible value. I enjoy your books (although reading one whilst camping freaked me out a little), but I read many books a year. The enjoyment is pleasant, but fleeting.

    The point is that *lots* of people could not fix an ankle. Some tried and failed. He succeeded. Don't underestimate the value of a craftsman. You can craft words. He could craft health. Which is more valuable?

    Oh, and I don't have an 'intrinsic sadness'. If I did, I might have wasted much of my life addicted to drugs instead of endlessly and pointlessly walking. Oh, hang on ... :)
    Fixing An Ankle Is Of MoRe Immediate Practical Value, But SomeOne Who Can Craft A Story or idea Which MoveS People In deep ways, can have vast value and negatives or, in some case hundreds of years or more.

    GodDamn phone capitalising strangely again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,038
    Gordon Brown back from the dead...Perhaps the Daily Record might make him editor?
This discussion has been closed.

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