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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB moves to 11 percent lead in first of tonight’s polls
This post will be updated as other polling news comes in
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Titters0
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I'm unconvinced by this poll. Con 27 and UKIP 17 does not seem right.0
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Are "Others" -4? Curious......0
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Nothing to see here. Move along now.0
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This will be fun.0
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I'm looking forward to their lame explanations more than usual.saddened said:This will be fun.
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Combined Con + UKIP scores this weekMorris_Dancer said:I'm unconvinced by this poll. Con 27 and UKIP 17 does not seem right.
Opinium = 44%
Ipsos-Mori = 45%
ICM = 46%
YouGov = 45%
TNS BMRB = 47%
Populus =42%0 -
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Polling average shows a 4-5% lead for Labour. I can't see any reason for UKIP being at 17%, which has obviously lowered the Tory result. Unless people did not like Boris and George trying to sell the UK to China. Older people I suspect would not like this and this may cause some Tories to switch to UKIP.0
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Which party is a significant part of "others" (-4)?Stuart_Dickson said:
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I look forward to you presenting us with the Scottish sub-sample when the tables are published.CarlottaVance said:
You will doubtless be mauled by Mark Walter the Softie Senior.
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Think Cameron will need to do more on energy prices, as Labour are looking to be more on the side of consumers. Even if this is not the case, some people will look at their current situation and will not be interested in what happened 5 years ago, when Ed M brought in some of these green measures which increased bills.0
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Number of respondents to the Opinium Survey: 1000JackW said:
Number of respondents to Jack's McARSE: 1
Members of the Market Research Society: Opinium
Not a Member of the Market Research Society: Jack
Member of the BPC: Opinium
Not a member of the BPC: Jack
It is quite obvious which finding is worth a chortle, and it is not the Opinium survey.0 -
There is no inherent reason why Opinium should be wrong and, for example, MORI should be right.0
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It's not a question of sub samples - "others" have seen their support fall by nearly a third.....Stuart_Dickson said:
I look forward to you presenting us with the Scottish sub-sample when the tables are published.CarlottaVance said:
You will doubtless be mauled by Mark Walter the Softie Senior.
Which poll is OGH comparing this against? The previous Observer one? The Opinium site is nowhere near as easy to navigate as YouGov....
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How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?0
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Labour lead firming up due to higher energy prices and inadequate coalition response?
Should probably wait for all 3 polls to see the trend.0 -
I'll have to wait until the Chief Counting Officer announces the result before I'll know if most Scots favour the Union or not. Not sure why you think that you know the result before a single vote has been cast.JackW said:0 -
Every party +2 except the Tories. Will Others dissapear up JackW's ARSE?0
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Of course the "Others" finding is heavily dependent on sub-samples: the Scottish and Welsh sub-samples to be precise.CarlottaVance said:
It's not a question of sub samples - "others" have seen their support fall by nearly a third.....Stuart_Dickson said:
I look forward to you presenting us with the Scottish sub-sample when the tables are published.CarlottaVance said:
You will doubtless be mauled by Mark Walter the Softie Senior.
Which poll is OGH comparing this against? The previous Observer one? The Opinium site is nowhere near as easy to navigate as YouGov....0 -
Zero.TGOHF said:How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?
This poll Baxter'd
Con 213
Lab 381
LD 30
Kippers 0 (Zero)0 -
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I'll wait to see the tables before pontificating - but do carry on.....Stuart_Dickson said:
Of course the "Others" finding is heavily dependent on sub-samples: the Scottish and Welsh sub-samples to be precise.CarlottaVance said:
It's not a question of sub samples - "others" have seen their support fall by nearly a third.....Stuart_Dickson said:
I look forward to you presenting us with the Scottish sub-sample when the tables are published.CarlottaVance said:
You will doubtless be mauled by Mark Walter the Softie Senior.
Which poll is OGH comparing this against? The previous Observer one? The Opinium site is nowhere near as easy to navigate as YouGov....
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That result will be a highlight of next year. Popcorn time as PB Nats go apoplectic.
Pity really, as I would quite like to see Independent Scotland, though it seems most Scots are Unionists.
Perhaps if Alex got the Franchise for the Election extended to England he would reach his goal.Stuart_Dickson said:
I'll have to wait until the Chief Counting Officer announces the result before I'll know if most Scots favour the Union or not. Not sure why you think that you know the result before a single vote has been cast.JackW said:0 -
But the main fact is that UKIP is not going away, and is quietly gaining strength and adherants.
Those who tought that UKIP would falter or fade away after the conference season are totally wrong.0 -
@Stuart_Dickson
Why you pay so much heed to my ARSE is thus quite a mystery.
However It's clear you simply can't resist to temptation to sniff around it and have a good feel. But I bear you no ill will as like other past critics you will simply come to admire and adore it.0 -
Evening comrades - let the hilarity commence.
Energy bills even the subject of gags on Strictly Come Dancing.
It's a revolution, daaarling.
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Why on earth would I, or any other SNP poster, "go apoplectic"? I and my colleagues are absolutely delighted that our fellow countrymen finally get to have their say on the defining topic of Scottish public life over the last 50 years. Whether they say Yes or No is far less important than the fact that they get to have their say at all.foxinsoxuk said:That result will be a highlight of next year. Popcorn time as PB Nats go apoplectic.
Pity really, as I would quite like to see Independent Scotland, though it seems most Scots are Unionists.
Perhaps if Alex got the Franchise for the Election extended to England he would reach his goal.Stuart_Dickson said:
I'll have to wait until the Chief Counting Officer announces the result before I'll know if most Scots favour the Union or not. Not sure why you think that you know the result before a single vote has been cast.JackW said:
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Yes dear, I believe you.
Getting your excuses in early?Stuart_Dickson said:
Why on earth would I, or any other SNP poster, "go apoplectic"? I and my colleagues are absolutely delighted that our fellow countrymen finally get to have their say on the defining topic of Scottish public life over the last 50 years. Whether they say Yes or No is far less important than the fact that they get to have their say at all.foxinsoxuk said:That result will be a highlight of next year. Popcorn time as PB Nats go apoplectic.
Pity really, as I would quite like to see Independent Scotland, though it seems most Scots are Unionists.
Perhaps if Alex got the Franchise for the Election extended to England he would reach his goal.Stuart_Dickson said:
I'll have to wait until the Chief Counting Officer announces the result before I'll know if most Scots favour the Union or not. Not sure why you think that you know the result before a single vote has been cast.JackW said:0 -
You will find TSE, that in the end your famous Baxter calculations for seats will be seen to be a fable and truly Kippered.TheScreamingEagles said:
Zero.TGOHF said:How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?
This poll Baxter'd
Con 213
Lab 381
LD 30
Kippers 0 (Zero)0 -
My famous Baxter calculations?MikeK said:
You will find TSE, that in the end your famous Baxter calculations for seats will be seen to be a fable and truly Kippered.TheScreamingEagles said:
Zero.TGOHF said:How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?
This poll Baxter'd
Con 213
Lab 381
LD 30
Kippers 0 (Zero)
What are you going on about?
Be bold, name the seats you think UKIP will win if they poll 17% in a general election.0 -
I doubt it. Baxter has been repeatedly ridiculed since he started up his maths project many moons ago. But the funny thing is, he is always in the right ballpark. It is really quite an amazing feat.MikeK said:
You will find TSE, that in the end your famous Baxter calculations for seats will be seen to be a fable and truly Kippered.TheScreamingEagles said:
Zero.TGOHF said:How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?
This poll Baxter'd
Con 213
Lab 381
LD 30
Kippers 0 (Zero)
If Baxter says that UKIP need approx x percent to get x numbers of seats, then Baxter is probably right.0 -
David Coburn UKIP @DavidCoburnUKip
Takes a trip to China for #Osborne to realise Britain has "defeatist" attitude - but Lib/Lab/Con caused it http://dailym.ai/15R2QuW
Ever since 1945 Britain has been ruled by parties with a defeatist agenda. Time for a change.0 -
Stuart is right. UKIP will put Milliband in Number 10, and Ed Balls in Number 11.Stuart_Dickson said:
I doubt it. Baxter has been repeatedly ridiculed since he started up his maths project many moons ago. But the funny thing is, he is always in the right ballpark. It is really quite an amazing feat.MikeK said:
You will find TSE, that in the end your famous Baxter calculations for seats will be seen to be a fable and truly Kippered.TheScreamingEagles said:
Zero.TGOHF said:How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?
This poll Baxter'd
Con 213
Lab 381
LD 30
Kippers 0 (Zero)
If Baxter says that UKIP need approx x percent to get x numbers of seats, then Baxter is probably right.0 -
Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?0
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The ComRes poll out at 7.30pm - very different from Opinium0
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Not at all. The key defining feature of the Scottish National Party is that we respect the will of the Scottish people as expressed at the ballot box. We are the only one of the major parties to do so. The Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties all believe that the will of the British people takes precedence over the will of the Scots.foxinsoxuk said:Yes dear, I believe you.
Getting your excuses in early?Stuart_Dickson said:
Why on earth would I, or any other SNP poster, "go apoplectic"? I and my colleagues are absolutely delighted that our fellow countrymen finally get to have their say on the defining topic of Scottish public life over the last 50 years. Whether they say Yes or No is far less important than the fact that they get to have their say at all.foxinsoxuk said:That result will be a highlight of next year. Popcorn time as PB Nats go apoplectic.
Pity really, as I would quite like to see Independent Scotland, though it seems most Scots are Unionists.
Perhaps if Alex got the Franchise for the Election extended to England he would reach his goal.Stuart_Dickson said:
I'll have to wait until the Chief Counting Officer announces the result before I'll know if most Scots favour the Union or not. Not sure why you think that you know the result before a single vote has been cast.JackW said:
Privatisation of the Royal Mail being only the latest in a very long list of examples.
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The BBC version of reality isn't true. There are plenty of reasons for UKIP to be around 15-20% all the time with dips during media lulls.hucks67 said:Polling average shows a 4-5% lead for Labour. I can't see any reason for UKIP being at 17%, which has obviously lowered the Tory result. Unless people did not like Boris and George trying to sell the UK to China. Older people I suspect would not like this and this may cause some Tories to switch to UKIP.
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@Stuart_Dickson
@TheScreamingEagles
Now lads, no frothing at the mouth, no apoplexy on PB, please.
I think that UKIP will gain even more of a share than 17%. Now I told you no frothing............0 -
@JohnRentoul: Lab lead down to 3: ComRes split-sample poll for @indyonsunday & Sunday Mirror comparing Cam v EdM with Con v Lab http://t.co/EVtpDgDk4N0
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I think Baxter's calculator because it is based on previous election vote distribution (which in UKIP's case was even because it was low) overestimates the percentage vote required to win seats.
However I don't believe that opinion polls accurately represent the number of people who would vote UKIP tomorrow and certainly not 2015. You can tell this from the wide variety of UKIP figures currently being recorded for the different pollsters. I would posit, for the reasons I've mentioned before, that UKIP's nowcast support is no more than 10%.0 -
MikeK said:
@Stuart_Dickson
@TheScreamingEagles
Now lads, no frothing at the mouth, no apoplexy on PB, please.
I think that UKIP will gain even more of a share than 17%. Now I told you no frothing............
Frothing?MikeK said:@Stuart_Dickson
@TheScreamingEagles
Now lads, no frothing at the mouth, no apoplexy on PB, please.
I think that UKIP will gain even more of a share than 17%. Now I told you no frothing............
Why, did someone mention Muslims to you again?
Tell us more about that yougov babysitter poll again?0 -
Tweets suggesting ComRes showing Labour lead narrowing to 3%0
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No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
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If a party's core support is coming out of the socio-economic middle (or just to the right of that ) rather than out of either the top or bottom then the logic of it is completely different to the normal pattern.Stuart_Dickson said:
I doubt it. Baxter has been repeatedly ridiculed since he started up his maths project many moons ago. But the funny thing is, he is always in the right ballpark. It is really quite an amazing feat.MikeK said:
You will find TSE, that in the end your famous Baxter calculations for seats will be seen to be a fable and truly Kippered.TheScreamingEagles said:
Zero.TGOHF said:How many seats do Ukip get on 17% ?
This poll Baxter'd
Con 213
Lab 381
LD 30
Kippers 0 (Zero)
If Baxter says that UKIP need approx x percent to get x numbers of seats, then Baxter is probably right.-1 -
Comres the gold standard tonight.0
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A 3% lead sounds like a a blue-friendly margin of error.0
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Mr. K, not my party at all. I still plan on voting UKIP at the euros (again).0
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Even ComRes gives UKIP 16% today:
Con 32% (+4)
Lab 35% (-1)
UKIP 16% (-1)
LD 9% (-1)
Others 8% (-1)0 -
Thats very nice and am pleased to learn it. Be brave and continue to vote UKIP in 2015.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, not my party at all. I still plan on voting UKIP at the euros (again).
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Header revised to include ComRes0
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Mr. K, that's a shade patronising. Furthermore, voting UKIP in this constituency is out of the question. It's effectively Balls Vs the Conservatives. For the good of all Britain (well, possibly excepting Scotland) I'm bound to vote for the blues as the only realistic hope of unseating the vile Balls.0
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Free movement of labour between countries on a similar economic level evens out. Free movement of labour between countries on very different economic levels - courtesy of europhiles - is at first economic warfare on the bottom 1/3 of the population then eventually the middle 2/3 then finally all but the top 5% or maybe even 1%.tim said:
Thatcher believed in free movement of labour, sad little Englanders don'tMikeK said:
No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
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When it came to it, Thatcher only had to think about the then members of what is now the EU, leaving her free to be flexible about her views when she left Number 10. Not sure she's the peg to hang the free movement of persons on.tim said:
Thatcher believed in free movement of labour, sad little Englanders don'tMikeK said:
No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
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Sorry you feel I'm patronising you. That is not the case - just my bad syntax - and I apologise.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, that's a shade patronising. Furthermore, voting UKIP in this constituency is out of the question. It's effectively Balls Vs the Conservatives. For the good of all Britain (well, possibly excepting Scotland) I'm bound to vote for the blues as the only realistic hope of unseating the vile Balls.
However I still think that all votes for UKIP will count. To me Labour and Tory are two sides of the same coin.0 -
Keeping immigration up is GOOD for the economy.Grandiose said:
When it came to it, Thatcher only had to think about the then members of what is now the EU, leaving her free to be flexible about her views when she left Number 10. Not sure she's the peg to hang the free movement of persons on.tim said:
Thatcher believed in free movement of labour, sad little Englanders don'tMikeK said:
No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
Cutting immigration is BAD
Get that into your head
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That doesn't mean they'll win any seats just that the logic isn't the same.MrJones said:If a party's core support is coming out of the socio-economic middle (or just to the right of that ) rather than out of either the top or bottom then the logic of it is completely different to the normal pattern.
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@georgeeaton: ComRes poll shows that Labour has large lead on living standards and Tories large lead on the economy. Same trend as Romney vs. Obama.0
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My head?MikeSmithson said:
Keeping immigration up is GOOD for the economy.Grandiose said:
When it came to it, Thatcher only had to think about the then members of what is now the EU, leaving her free to be flexible about her views when she left Number 10. Not sure she's the peg to hang the free movement of persons on.tim said:
Thatcher believed in free movement of labour, sad little Englanders don'tMikeK said:
No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
Cutting immigration is BAD
Get that into your head
I believe in the four freedoms of the European Union.
It's the others you need to convince.
Tim wanted to set up Thatcher as a blue to peg the idea to because it made for a better attack line. I get the idea behind that but it's not wholly accurate.0 -
Ergo: Labour are Shytes (or Scots).
Clever puntahs will be looking to arb movements from Labour trolls to Tory diehards. Sadly I do not have a functional market to play with (nor a sober brain-cell).
:relax-and-larf:0 -
Tonights polls point and arrow at the L/Dems that are fast losing support. If they fall to 6/7% thay have no hopes of being in any government of the future.0
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Large areas of London where people won't report crimes up to and including the gang-rape of their children for fear of retaliation from those gangs
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/boys-quizzed-over-500-rapes-a-year-by-gangs-8335165.html
More slaves in London than at any time since the Romans
http://www.lbc.co.uk/hundreds-forced-to-slavery-every-day-in-london-79833
If the BBC told the truth there'd be no debate about this at all.0 -
BetVictor and Betway become the latest bookies to slash their LAB prices for the Dunfermline by-election.
Best LAB price is now Ladbrokes with 2/7.
William Hill suspended their prices 3 hours ago, but their SNP price was 4/1. (The Coral price is still available: 3/1.)
The Lib Dems, who held this seat until the 2011 general election, are at 89/1 with Betfair.0 -
Mr. K, no problem. It's easy to get wires cross online as emotions don't travel well with text.
Were this constituency different I might consider voting UKIP, but I fear the party's electoral approach (broad but shallow support, rather than a focused approach to win some seats) makes this unlikely in the foreseeable future.0 -
There are unfortunate crimes that occur. Human trafficking is now easier than in the past so we have to ever vigilante.MrJones said:Large areas of London where people won't report crimes up to and including the gang-rape of their children for fear of retaliation from those gangs
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/boys-quizzed-over-500-rapes-a-year-by-gangs-8335165.html
More slaves in London than at any time since the Romans
http://www.lbc.co.uk/hundreds-forced-to-slavery-every-day-in-london-79833
If the BBC told the truth there'd be no debate about this at all.
But neither of your sources back up either of your statements and I'm not inclined to believe the hyperbole neither in respect of the present nor seeing the past through rose-tinted spectacles either. Sexual offences and underground trafficking of all sorts have always been under the radar and not reported to the police.0 -
LDs in the mire but Cable's car crash conference and post float surge in RM has coincided with no rumblings about Clegg - how strange...0
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Progress.Grandiose said:
There are unfortunate crimes that occur. Human trafficking is now easier than in the past so we have to ever vigilante.MrJones said:Large areas of London where people won't report crimes up to and including the gang-rape of their children for fear of retaliation from those gangs
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/boys-quizzed-over-500-rapes-a-year-by-gangs-8335165.html
More slaves in London than at any time since the Romans
http://www.lbc.co.uk/hundreds-forced-to-slavery-every-day-in-london-79833
If the BBC told the truth there'd be no debate about this at all.
But neither of your sources back up either of your statements and I'm not inclined to believe the hyperbole neither in respect of the present nor seeing the past through rose-tinted spectacles either. Sexual offences and underground trafficking of all sorts have always been under the radar and not reported to the police.0 -
The Tories put everything in to try to defeat Balls in 2010 and failed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, no problem. It's easy to get wires cross online as emotions don't travel well with text.
Were this constituency different I might consider voting UKIP, but I fear the party's electoral approach (broad but shallow support, rather than a focused approach to win some seats) makes this unlikely in the foreseeable future.
This time the winning margin for Balls would be more than 10000.0 -
One has to wonder at the sanity of voters who think Labour would 'keep prices down generally'. The risk of high inflation after 2015 under a Labour government, especially a weak one in a hung parliament, is a very real danger.0
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The risk of spiralling energy prices is a very real danger under a Tory government, as they refuse to have a crack at them.RichardNabavi said:One has to wonder at the sanity of voters who think Labour would 'keep prices down generally'. The risk of high inflation after 2015 under a Labour government, especially a weak one in a hung parliament, is a very real danger.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/9490712/Energy-companies-overcharge-customers-by-600m.html0 -
One says 3% the other 11%. I think we should wait for Yougov to adjudicate0
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Hilarious Post: Part Trois!
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/147132/#Comment_147132That was the response here in May 2005 when I said get on Obama at 50/1.
What ever happened to your "Cameron next out of the Cabinet: 150-1" bet OG...?
I made money on the first two Ashes Tests ( as positied on here for grown-ups) but - sensibly - decided that the rest of the series was as predictable as a Yorkshire-lawyer's music taste! *
Betting is an art and your "brushstrokes" are better then most. And then we have our Swedish folk and their predictions...! **
* Apart from "sad" that is.
** Better than the Bermondsey Bog-trotter's (but that is a low bar, innit)!0 -
@JPonpolitics: My guest on Pienaar's Politics tomorrow morning from 10 on @bbc5live will be @AlexSalmond.0
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From your pieceBobajob said:
The risk of spiralling energy prices is a very real danger under a Tory government, as they refuse to have a crack at them.RichardNabavi said:One has to wonder at the sanity of voters who think Labour would 'keep prices down generally'. The risk of high inflation after 2015 under a Labour government, especially a weak one in a hung parliament, is a very real danger.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/9490712/Energy-companies-overcharge-customers-by-600m.html
In 2009, Ofgem dropped the investigation into Scottish Power and SSE, the owner of Southern Electric, after concluding that the chances of a successful prosecution were “low”. The companies strongly deny breaking any rules.
Now remind me, who was in power in 2009?
Specifically, who was Energy Secretary in 2009?
I'll give you a clue, his name rhymes with Ed Miliband.0 -
"Not another vulgarian, Roger?"
'Fraid so Avery. Now don't pretend you can't spot them at least as quickly as me0 -
Roger, everyone knows, TNS BMRB are the gold standardRoger said:One says 3% the other 11%. I think we should wait for Yougov to adjudicate
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How deluded is Charles Walker and the rest?
David Cameron in the line of fire over pay rise for MPs
Tory heavyweights call on PM to risk public anger and agree 11% salary hike for members
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/20/david-cameron-mps-pay-rise0 -
Doesn't Cameron still earn less than Brown did because of the latter's scorched earth policy extending even to a salary cut for the PM in his final year?TheScreamingEagles said:How deluded is Charles Walker and the rest?
David Cameron in the line of fire over pay rise for MPs
Tory heavyweights call on PM to risk public anger and agree 11% salary hike for members
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/20/david-cameron-mps-pay-rise
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Wodger,Roger said:I thought the Gold Standard was that obscure three man band based in the Shetlands so favoured by the SNP that showed Nationalists neck and neck with Unionists.
Please do not gargle when posting. It has no Listermint © mint-fresh breathe....
:try-using-some-punctuation-or-summinck:
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Comres = outlier!
Opinium = good!0 -
"The cost of politics should go down, not up. And MPs' pay shouldn't go up while public sector pay is rightly being constrained."TheScreamingEagles said:How deluded is Charles Walker and the rest?
David Cameron in the line of fire over pay rise for MPs
Tory heavyweights call on PM to risk public anger and agree 11% salary hike for members
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/20/david-cameron-mps-pay-rise
The No. 10 spokesman is absolutely right.
MPs blew their chances of a corrective salary rise when they rejected the culling of MP numbers.
But I still think an outright dismissal of the IPSA recommendations is unlikely. A deferral of the decision to the next parliament is Cameron's most likely response.
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"How deluded is Charles Walker and the rest?"
I think they should take it. At least they'd start looking professional and motivated by the need to make a living like everyone else.Not just seduced by the perks and glamour as it appears now.0 -
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Meanwhile in the only news that really matters Burnley extend their lead at the top of the championship. Our best start to a season since 18970
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Agreed.For a 24/7 job,75 grand is cheap.Roger said:"How deluded is Charles Walker and the rest?"
I think they should take it. At least they'd start looking professional and motivated by the need to make a living like everyone else.Not just seduced by the perks and glamour as it appears now.0 -
I don't know why you think that.MikeSmithson said:
Keeping immigration up is GOOD for the economy.Grandiose said:
When it came to it, Thatcher only had to think about the then members of what is now the EU, leaving her free to be flexible about her views when she left Number 10. Not sure she's the peg to hang the free movement of persons on.tim said:
Thatcher believed in free movement of labour, sad little Englanders don'tMikeK said:
No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
Cutting immigration is BAD
Get that into your head
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Did she? Where do you get that extraordinary notion from?tim said:
Thatcher believed in free movement of labour, sad little Englanders don'tMikeK said:
No. An exeption; but her ministers did and acted against Thatcher, undermining her at every chance. In the end they knifed her. Thats your Tory party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. K, you think Thatcher had a defeatist agenda?
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College Game Day was in Clemson this morning, just up I-85.It was Game Day's second visit in 6 weeks. They haven't visited the same place twice in a season for a decade. The game is huge - #5 Florida State vs #3 Clemson. It was electric there. Go Tigers!!
Somewhere in Clemson is a Top Gear fan, as I saw a large sign saying "Sammy Watkins is The Stig."0
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