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  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    tpfkar said:

    Agreed - and that's why it was so important to pick Tim Farron not Norman Lamb in hindsight. Farron has many detractors, but he kept enough distance from the controversial coalition decisions to offer a clean break in enough people's eyes, and he's much harder to campaign against as a result.
    To be honest , I don't think he has registered with many people at all. I still strongly suspect that LibDem participation in the Coalition will be toxic for them if only Labour and the Greens make a serious effort to remind voters.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    Theresa's honeymoon is wearing off as people realise Osborne's golden legacy is at risk.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/839054357073100802

    As with the best prime minister, I do wander how the DK value of that has evolved.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited March 2017
    Here we go

    Wikileaks
    RELEASE: CIA Vault 7 Year Zero decryption passphrase:

    SplinterItIntoAThousandPiecesAndScatterItIntoTheWinds

    This is a JFK quote about what he wanted to do to the CIA
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    justin124 said:

    To which there would doubtless be dozens of amendments tabled!
    And there would just as inevitably be an ultra-tight guillotine.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Reason #34342 for the housing shortage:

    A bridging loan I'm involved with:

    B******l Road, Sandbanks (BPF543)
    The borrowers continue to await the planning decision including the adjacent site, which was expected by the end of February. The planning officer who was dealing with the decision is off on long term sick leave, and the borrowers are still waiting for the application to be reallocated to another officer.

    Wanted to have a chat with you at some point about savingstream - lots of their loans appear to be past due, but perhaps I'm missing something. Was wondering whether they were worth investing with. Can you PM me if you are up for it?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited March 2017
    Wikileaks
    https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

    "Today, Tuesday 7 March 2017, WikiLeaks begins its new series of leaks on the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. Code-named "Vault 7" by WikiLeaks, it is the largest ever publication of confidential documents on the agency.

    The first full part of the series, "Year Zero", comprises 8,761 documents and files from an isolated, high-security network situated inside the CIA's Center for Cyber Intelligence in Langley, Virgina. It follows an introductory disclosure last month of CIA targeting French political parties and candidates in the lead up to the 2012 presidential election...

    Recently, the CIA lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal including malware, viruses, trojans, weaponized "zero day" exploits, malware remote control systems and associated documentation. This extraordinary collection, which amounts to more than several hundred million lines of code, gives its possessor the entire hacking capacity of the CIA. The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    tpfkar said:

    Agreed - and that's why it was so important to pick Tim Farron not Norman Lamb in hindsight. Farron has many detractors, but he kept enough distance from the controversial coalition decisions to offer a clean break in enough people's eyes, and he's much harder to campaign against as a result.
    Supporters of Tim Farron - Farronanists?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Charles said:

    Wanted to have a chat with you at some point about savingstream - lots of their loans appear to be past due, but perhaps I'm missing something. Was wondering whether they were worth investing with. Can you PM me if you are up for it?
    Sent you a pm.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017
    justin124 said:

    To be honest , I don't think he has registered with many people at all. I still strongly suspect that LibDem participation in the Coalition will be toxic for them if only Labour and the Greens make a serious effort to remind voters.
    I think the Coalition-time hostility to the Lib Dems from left-wing voters has mostly gone - but I'm not sure they have much that will APPEAL to them either. I still don't think, even if most Labour voters voted Remain, that they feel THAT strongly about it, and I especially don't think they'll feel that strongly about going back into the EU by 2020, when Brexit is pretty much a done deal. The Lib Dems will have to find something better as a USP if they want to pull back the erstwhile Red Liberals, IMO.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I'm also a bit surprised Labour and the Greens don't make more of Farron's past positions on gay rights, since that would probably do him a lot of damage with the voters he's targeting.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    I am not ruling out a Lib Dem win in Gorton.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Its like a scene from Drop the Dead Donkey..
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    As with the best prime minister, I do wander how the DK value of that has evolved.
    With inflation increasing, thereby bringing down real income growth, the honeymoon period will rapidly come to an end. The very people who support Brexit the most, will also feel the pinch the most. Where there votes will go, as Klopp says, who knows ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,835
    justin124 said:

    To be honest , I don't think he has registered with many people at all. I still strongly suspect that LibDem participation in the Coalition will be toxic for them if only Labour and the Greens make a serious effort to remind voters.
    The 'mood' that I pick up from discussions on here, as well as by-election results, is that the Lib Dems have come dramatically back into contention these last 12 months. So it's somewhat surprising to see them still marooned on 8%.
    Maybe what's happening is that that 8% is becoming more enthusiastic in its support now it has a cause to rally around (i.e. opposition to Brexit) - and is therefore very good at getting its vote out - but that it has not yet got to the point of convincing many of the remaining 92% to get on board. Which would make sense - while there are many Remainers, the number of Euro-enthusiasts has always been pretty small (as, it should be said, is the number of Euro-rejectionists; most people could see the positives and negatives and were neither entirely positive nor entirely negative about Europe).
    The Lib Dems may be convincing subscribers to the New European, but are not yet convincing the majority that they are replacing Labour as the non-Conservative party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,572
    Nor Omnishambles. "This is now siginificantly improved since the time of my predecessor's Omnishambles Budget...."

    Copeland might be a good outside bet "Following representations from the Honourable Member for Copeland..." (pause for riotous cheers)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,772
    LORDS DIVISION RESULT:

    AMENDMENT 1 - 2ND REFERENDUM (ON FINAL DEAL)

    For - 131
    Against - 336

    Government wins.

    Lab (front bench at least) abstained.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,552
    PlatoSaid said:

    Wikileaks
    https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

    "Today, Tuesday 7 March 2017, WikiLeaks begins its new series of leaks on the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. Code-named "Vault 7" by WikiLeaks, it is the largest ever publication of confidential documents on the agency.

    The first full part of the series, "Year Zero", comprises 8,761 documents and files from an isolated, high-security network situated inside the CIA's Center for Cyber Intelligence in Langley, Virgina. It follows an introductory disclosure last month of CIA targeting French political parties and candidates in the lead up to the 2012 presidential election...

    Recently, the CIA lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal including malware, viruses, trojans, weaponized "zero day" exploits, malware remote control systems and associated documentation. This extraordinary collection, which amounts to more than several hundred million lines of code, gives its possessor the entire hacking capacity of the CIA. The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.

    So to the Guardian et al...will this make them heroes again, or still baddies? After all, initially they were heroes and so was Snowden for leaking this kind of info...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,580
    Danny565 said:

    I think the Coalition-time hostility to the Lib Dems from left-wing voters has mostly gone - but I'm not sure they have much that will APPEAL to them either. I still don't think, even if most Labour voters voted Remain, that they feel THAT strongly about it, and I especially don't think they'll feel that strongly about going back into the EU by 2020, when Brexit is pretty much a done deal. The Lib Dems will have to find something better as a USP if they want to pull back the erstwhile Red Liberals, IMO.
    Very few people who were students in 2010-1 are still students now.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Danny565 said:

    I think the Coalition-time hostility to the Lib Dems from left-wing voters has mostly gone - but I'm not sure they have much that will APPEAL to them either. I still don't think, even if most Labour voters voted Remain, that they feel THAT strongly about it, and I especially don't think they'll feel that strongly about going back into the EU by 2020, when Brexit is pretty much a done deal. The Lib Dems will have to find something better as a USP if they want to pull back the erstwhile Red Liberals, IMO.
    I agree with you in respect of Brexit and feel the issue is already far less salient at elections than the commentariat has talked itself into believing. Re - the Coalition I think you underestimate the bitterness felt by many left of centre voters to the LibDems on that - indeed quite a few of their former voters are now committed Corbynites. I voted LibDem myself in 2001 and 2005 - and whilst I have no time for Corbyn , I would not contemplate voting LibDem again -not even in Tory/ LibDem marginals like Eastbourne or St Ives.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @ProfChalmers: Yeah, no-one had ever heard of this Hawking guy before he had a go at Corbyn to boost his profile.‬

    https://twitter.com/mrmarksteel/status/839074994659414016

    I thought hawkings had been proved wrong on his two big theories about science... if so, based on track record...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    edited March 2017
    Cookie said:

    The 'mood' that I pick up from discussions on here, as well as by-election results, is that the Lib Dems have come dramatically back into contention these last 12 months. So it's somewhat surprising to see them still marooned on 8%.
    Maybe what's happening is that that 8% is becoming more enthusiastic in its support now it has a cause to rally around (i.e. opposition to Brexit) - and is therefore very good at getting its vote out - but that it has not yet got to the point of convincing many of the remaining 92% to get on board. Which would make sense - while there are many Remainers, the number of Euro-enthusiasts has always been pretty small (as, it should be said, is the number of Euro-rejectionists; most people could see the positives and negatives and were neither entirely positive nor entirely negative about Europe).
    The Lib Dems may be convincing subscribers to the New European, but are not yet convincing the majority that they are replacing Labour as the non-Conservative party.
    There has been a change.

    Brexit has provided some people with a reason to vote Lib Dem. This is significant because it is the first positive reason people have had to vote Lib Dem since 2010.

    But they must not carried away. All their problems still remain.

    They have 9 MPs and are the 4th party, so are not challenging for any role in parliament and they get no oxygen. And there is no evidence or reason for left and Labour voters to forgive them for the coalition.
  • Cookie said:

    The Lib Dems may be convincing subscribers to the New European, but are not yet convincing the majority that they are replacing Labour as the non-Conservative party.
    I would imagine that the two things any party aspiring to power must show are:
    1. Respect for the Brexit result; and
    2. Not be financially / economically batshit crazy.
    Which somewhat rules out LDs and Labour right now. The Labour batshit crazy problem may not last however. If they elect themselves a moderate leaver to replace the Mrs Rochester crowd running the party today they could be back in contention in England.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    justin124 said:

    I agree with you in respect of Brexit and feel the issue is already far less salient at elections than the commentariat has talked itself into believing. Re - the Coalition I think you underestimate the bitterness felt by many left of centre voters to the LibDems on that - indeed quite a few of their former voters are now committed Corbynites. I voted LibDem myself in 2001 and 2005 - and whilst I have no time for Corbyn , I would not contemplate voting LibDem again -not even in Tory/ LibDem marginals like Eastbourne or St Ives.
    No-one could accuse you of sticking to chronology in your small straw grasping.

    Gorton isn't rock solid safe because they nearly won in the 50s.

    Brexit is less salient than the Coalition.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    kle4 said:

    I'd be concerned about her judgement both in spending time on here she could be spending more usefully in other areas, but also for venturing below the line on a political article, in itself a sure sign of skewed judgement.
    Carlotta said here that Theresa has a good sex life with her hubby.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    justin124 said:

    I agree with you in respect of Brexit and feel the issue is already far less salient at elections than the commentariat has talked itself into believing. Re - the Coalition I think you underestimate the bitterness felt by many left of centre voters to the LibDems on that - indeed quite a few of their former voters are now committed Corbynites. I voted LibDem myself in 2001 and 2005 - and whilst I have no time for Corbyn , I would not contemplate voting LibDem again -not even in Tory/ LibDem marginals like Eastbourne or St Ives.
    Personally, I'm a fully paid-up Labour member, and even I would probably vote LibDem if I lived in a Tory/LD marginal! (Whereas I wouldn't have done in 2015)
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Cookie said:

    The 'mood' that I pick up from discussions on here, as well as by-election results, is that the Lib Dems have come dramatically back into contention these last 12 months. So it's somewhat surprising to see them still marooned on 8%.
    Maybe what's happening is that that 8% is becoming more enthusiastic in its support now it has a cause to rally around (i.e. opposition to Brexit) - and is therefore very good at getting its vote out - but that it has not yet got to the point of convincing many of the remaining 92% to get on board. Which would make sense - while there are many Remainers, the number of Euro-enthusiasts has always been pretty small (as, it should be said, is the number of Euro-rejectionists; most people could see the positives and negatives and were neither entirely positive nor entirely negative about Europe).
    The Lib Dems may be convincing subscribers to the New European, but are not yet convincing the majority that they are replacing Labour as the non-Conservative party.
    Most of their Local By election success is probably explained by the sheer scale of the effort the LibDems are making in those areas relative to the other parties. They are also very good at taking advantage of the special circumstances surrounding such elections.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    Can't help but feel that No. 10 have played a blinder recently.

    Getting Labour to appear divided on Brexit just before the Copeland by-election.
    Getting Labour to be more vehemently against Grammars than Tories are pro them.
    Getting Corbyn to sound frit about an early election.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Danny565 said:

    Personally, I'm a fully paid-up Labour member, and even I would probably vote LibDem if I lived in a Tory/LD marginal! (Whereas I wouldn't have done in 2015)
    If you declared that in public , you would - rightly - face expulsion!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:



    Carlotta said here that Theresa has a good sex life with her hubby.

    FWIW, Carlotta has said in the past that she's been a friend of Philip and Theresa since they were all at university together. A little indiscreet, possibly, if she made that comment (I didn't see it) but plausible that she might know.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    surbiton said:

    Carlotta said here that Theresa has a good sex life with her hubby.
    TMI
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Charles said:

    I thought hawkings had been proved wrong on his two big theories about science... if so, based on track record...
    Interesting that the comment comes from Mark Steel. Clearly the hard left not so united...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    justin124 said:

    If you declared that in public , you would - rightly - face expulsion!
    Quite the stickler for rules given you're not a member of any party, right?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Charles said:

    I thought hawkings had been proved wrong on his two big theories about science... if so, based on track record...
    All Hawking's theories await experimental verification.

    (This is one reason why he has not won a Nobel prize, the Nobel committee being traditionally reluctant to award prizes in pure theory).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,552
    edited March 2017
    Mortimer said:

    Can't help but feel that No. 10 have played a blinder recently.

    Getting Labour to appear divided on Brexit just before the Copeland by-election.
    Getting Labour to be more vehemently against Grammars than Tories are pro them.
    Getting Corbyn to sound frit about an early election.

    To be fair, given Jezza manages to balls up his tax return stunt TWO YEARS RUNNING and turn it into a negative story about his own team's competence, you aren't exactly playing against an Alex Ferguson led Man Utd.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    All Hawking's theories await experimental verification.

    (This is one reason why he has not won a Nobel prize, the Nobel committee being traditionally reluctant to award prizes in pure theory).
    I thought there were holes (sic) in his theories...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10654762/The-man-who-proved-Stephen-Hawking-wrong.html

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188

    To be fair, given Jezza manages to balls up his tax return stunt TWO YEARS RUNNING and turn it into a negative story about his own team's competence, you aren't exactly playing against an Alex Ferguson led Man Utd.
    Fair point Mr FU.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mortimer said:

    Quite the stickler for rules given you're not a member of any party, right?
    I ceased to be a member of the Labour Party at the end of 1996. The only campaigning activity I have engaged in since that time was for Craig Murray as an Independent candidate at the July 2009 Norwich North by election.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    All Hawking's theories await experimental verification.

    (This is one reason why he has not won a Nobel prize, the Nobel committee being traditionally reluctant to award prizes in pure theory).
    Hawking is fond of making bets in support of his hypotheses, and he has felt obliged to pay out on a couple (I think the black hole information paradox was one and the other had something to do with whether time was reversible, though I know bugger all about physics and may have them both arse about face).
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    surbiton said:

    With inflation increasing, thereby bringing down real income growth, the honeymoon period will rapidly come to an end. The very people who support Brexit the most, will also feel the pinch the most. Where there votes will go, as Klopp says, who knows ?
    You realise that inflation is below the target? I had a long chat with the chancellor some years ago about the difference between different types of inflation. Inflation caused by events or changes such as currency changes or oil price changes are one offs. They create a spike for those figures. If a 10% currency devaluation causes prices to increase by 5%, that 5% is once. It's not a further 5% the following year. It drops out off the system. The problem is when you get into a spiral of increasing prices and increasing wage demands to compensate.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    justin124 said:

    I ceased to be a member of the Labour Party at the end of 1996. The only campaigning activity I have engaged in since that time was for Craig Murray as an Independent candidate at the July 2009 Norwich North by election.
    His party name according to Wikipedia was interesting.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited March 2017

    Interesting

    twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/839015533412495361

    This bit of that article struck me as particularly perceptive:

    ..even if MPs can hasten regime change, Corbyn’s replacement will end up being someone prepared to praise his legacy. The price of ditching the leader will be an absence of serious inquest into the reasons why he needed ditching in the first place. A spell of unity will be bought with deferral of arguments about markets, trade, defence, immigration, public sector reform and all the other issues that make Labour unity impossible to sustain for long
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    notme said:

    You realise that inflation is below the target? I had a long chat with the chancellor some years ago about the difference between different types of inflation. Inflation caused by events or changes such as currency changes or oil price changes are one offs. They create a spike for those figures. If a 10% currency devaluation causes prices to increase by 5%, that 5% is once. It's not a further 5% the following year. It drops out off the system. The problem is when you get into a spiral of increasing prices and increasing wage demands to compensate.
    Indeed. It is why I still can't imagine an interest rate rise until late 2018.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/bbcsimonjack/status/839028456319041537

    BMZ will force a good trade deal make their cars outside the UK instead
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited March 2017
    MikeL said:

    LORDS DIVISION RESULT:
    AMENDMENT 1 - 2ND REFERENDUM (ON FINAL DEAL)
    For - 131
    Against - 336
    Government wins.
    Lab (front bench at least) abstained.

    Isn’t that one of the Brexit bill amendments, touted as a being a loss for the Gov’t?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/bbcsimonjack/status/839028456319041537

    BMZ will force a good trade deal make their cars outside the UK instead

    If they make it here will you accept this as a good sign, rather than 'despite Brexit'.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860

    Isn’t that one of the Brexit bill amendments, touted as a being a loss for the Gov’t?
    No the loss will be on a 'meaningful vote' in parliament, not on a second referendum commitment.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Mortimer said:

    His party name according to Wikipedia was interesting.
    The point I made about being expelled is one which I would apply to all parties.If a person is prepared to vote against the party of which he is a member , he/she should be deprived of membership.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mortimer said:

    If they make it here will you accept this as a good sign, rather than 'despite Brexit'.

    Shall we have a wager?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Charles said:

    I thought there were holes (sic) in his theories...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10654762/The-man-who-proved-Stephen-Hawking-wrong.html

    Hawking has fallen out with Susskind. As, indeed, he has fallen out with a number of theoretical physicists.

    With regard to his opinions of Corbyn, is Hawking actually a member of the Labour party (as opposed to a Labour voter)?

    If not, then I am not even sure his opinion even matters.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,349
    Scott_P said:

    Shall we have a wager?
    Unlikely you'll agree terms in time! ☺️
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860
    PB Brexiteers have a new parliamentary champion:

    https://twitter.com/liambyrnemp/status/839111723890126848
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,639
    I think you can argue that the Owen Smith challenge prolonged Corbyn leadership.
    Particularly that it was initially attempted in such an underhand and ludicrous manner.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Charles said:

    I thought hawkings had been proved wrong on his two big theories about science... if so, based on track record...
    But he's not wrong about Corbyn. His Nobel prize is in the post!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017
    Incidentally, now that the Republicans are clear that they won't be dumping Fillon, am I the only one who now thinks he's the favourite to win? For me, as flawed as he is, he seems the least implausible.

    I think Le Pen will do better than her current polling in the first round, but even so, it's near impossible to see a path to 50% for her in the run-off.

    Macron to me just seems so unlikely. His platform is just literally the exact opposite of virtually every electoral success in the West over the past couple of years. My suspicion is that he's currently still getting some support just on the basis of being a new fresh face who'll "shake things up", and that he'll fade once the specifics of his platform get more scrutiny.

    Hamon IN THEORY might have more of a chance than he's being rated by the commentariat - he's not THAT far behind making the second round on current polling, there's surely a chance he could squeeze Melenchon a bit and he could benefit if Macron fades in the way I think he will, and he would probably scrape a win over Le Pen in the run-off if he got there. However, again, even though on paper I can see the path for him, it just instinctively seems so unlikely.

    By process of elimination, Fillon is the one who I have the easiest time imagining getting over the line.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    justin124 said:

    Most of their Local By election success is probably explained by the sheer scale of the effort the LibDems are making in those areas relative to the other parties. They are also very good at taking advantage of the special circumstances surrounding such elections.
    You wouldn't consider that the very small numbers of people who actually voted in these local by-elections might be significant. From what I see on here most of these elections are about how about 1,200 people voted. I would be very hesitant to translate any party's progress at a national level on such thin gruel.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860
    French news: The meeting between Fillon, Sarkozy and Juppe has been called off.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538
    Not sure how serious this is, but Outlook.com is down.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,772
    edited March 2017

    Isn’t that one of the Brexit bill amendments, touted as a being a loss for the Gov’t?
    Govt won that vote easily as Lab abstained.

    More amendments still to come.

    Big amendment is on need for parliament to approve final deal - vote expected at approx 5pm.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,552
    tlg86 said:

    Not sure how serious this is, but Outlook.com is down.

    Working fine for me.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    @MikeL & @MrGlenn, many thanks.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,772
    edited March 2017
    Division List out for amendment 1.

    Crossbenchers voted 86-13 against a 2nd referendum. So Govt would have won easily even if Lab had voted for a 2nd referendum.

    222 out of 252 Con Peers present - another massive turnout. 2 Con rebels - Altmann and Wheatcroft.

    31 Lab Peers voted despite front bench abstaining.

    https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/lords/lords-divisions/
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    No the loss will be on a 'meaningful vote' in parliament, not on a second referendum commitment.
    Mr. Glenn, On the basis of that post, you might be able to answer a question that has been puzzling me. What would constitute a "meaningful vote"? The Crown in Parliament always has supremacy and so every vote is meaningful, and Parliament always has the ability to say yes or no to anything the executive propose, if it wants to. So I am struggling with this idea that a law needs to be passed to ensure that Parliament has a meaningful vote on a particular issue.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2017

    Mr. Glenn, On the basis of that post, you might be able to answer a question that has been puzzling me. What would constitute a "meaningful vote"? The Crown in Parliament always has supremacy and so every vote is meaningful, and Parliament always has the ability to say yes or no to anything the executive propose, if it wants to. So I am struggling with this idea that a law needs to be passed to ensure that Parliament has a meaningful vote on a particular issue.
    A "meaningful vote" in this case is surely one where a loss would mean the government is forced to go back to the negotiating table, until they come up with a deal that parliament can approve.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    justin124 said:

    The point I made about being expelled is one which I would apply to all parties.If a person is prepared to vote against the party of which he is a member , he/she should be deprived of membership.
    Posts like this are why we have a secret ballot.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    You wouldn't consider that the very small numbers of people who actually voted in these local by-elections might be significant. From what I see on here most of these elections are about how about 1,200 people voted. I would be very hesitant to translate any party's progress at a national level on such thin gruel.
    Yes - the low turnout is very significant. The Libdems make FAR more effort than the other parties and so manage to get a much higher percentage of their supporters to the polling station.They also derive some benefit from party loyalties being a good less firm at Local Elections compared with a Parliamentary election.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860

    Mr. Glenn, On the basis of that post, you might be able to answer a question that has been puzzling me. What would constitute a "meaningful vote"? The Crown in Parliament always has supremacy and so every vote is meaningful, and Parliament always has the ability to say yes or no to anything the executive propose, if it wants to. So I am struggling with this idea that a law needs to be passed to ensure that Parliament has a meaningful vote on a particular issue.
    Yes, to be honest my personal view is that all these amendments are nonsense. The act is just to authorise May to invoke article 50 and nothing more.

    The only significant thing about such an amendment is that it affects the choreography of planned events and the psychology of the players.
  • NEW THREAD

  • isamisam Posts: 41,349

    Working fine for me.
    Me too!!

    https://twitter.com/rosiesoapstar/status/839115602635665408
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    edited March 2017
    HYUFD said:

    40% for Le Pen already would be just 5% behind Trumps total and over double her father's total in 2002, even that result would show how she has transformed the FN from a minor to a major party
    In 2002, Le Pen père's score increased from 17% to 18% from R1 to R2. Current polling suggests that Le Pen fille's score would rise from 26% to 40% or 42%. That's a huge degree of detoxification in the minds of many who vote for other parties.

    Personally I am taking all hypothetical R2 polls with a mountain of salt. There's never been a TV debate prior to R1 before. That changes everything. Look at the primaries.

    Wouldn't it be interesting if when the latest batch of nominations are released today, Francois Baroin turns out to have picked up a fair few. Or Jean-Louis Borloo.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262

    Hawking has fallen out with Susskind. As, indeed, he has fallen out with a number of theoretical physicists.
    There's been factional war at the Caius high table for many years.

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,163
    Completely off topic but it amused me. A flock of terns raided a field of cannabis plants in Washington State, USA. There were no terns unstoned.
  • BudGBudG Posts: 711
    edited March 2017
    Deleted..Posted on next thread
This discussion has been closed.