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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s Achilles heel in Manchester Gorton is its faction-rid

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  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    If you don't like it here then don't come onto the site. Every time you post on here it costs me money.

    Sorry, Boss, but why is that?
    Bandwidth & server time is not free. I've no idea how much traffic pb generates; I would imagine it can be substantial during interesting times.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Roger said:

    Hi Mike. Which street were you born in? I was born very close to this constituency on Brooklands Rd in Sale.

    Mike wasn't born, he was conceived and created by the amalgamation of stunning Liberal bar charts in post war Britain.
    I was born in a nursing home in Victoria Park.
    Was that an annex of the National Liberal Club in Whitehall ? .... :smiley:
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,992
    F1: heard this yesterday but there's a new snippet on the BBC F1 feed about Gilles Simon (not to be confused with a French tennis player) leaving Honda.

    "He [Honda spokesman] refused to comment on reports Simon left as his ideas were being ignored."

    Not looking good for the orange ones.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,018
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    If you don't like it here then don't come onto the site. Every time you post on here it costs me money.

    Sorry, Boss, but why is that?
    Bandwidth & server time is not free. I've no idea how much traffic pb generates; I would imagine it can be substantial during interesting times.
    Many thanks. Will remember that when contribution time comes round again.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Barnesian said:

    John_M said:

    Good, old Mel. Next she'll be saying God promised Britain to the Engli...oops...British.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/839022668720517120

    Good morning all.

    What mythical ancient unity is this? I can't read the original article, but the idea that there is some manifest destiny for a United Kingdom doesn't appear to bear up under examination.

    If Scotland becomes independent and Northern Ireland joins the Republic, we'll still be the United Kingdom of England & Wales (plus assorted odds and sods too otiose to list). We'll still keep the flag.

    I fail to see any particular issue. Remaining/Leaving the Union would seem to be a matter for the Scottish people. Both England and Scotland managed tolerably well up until 1707.
    She's talking about "the ancient unity of the British Isles". That includes the ROI. An interesting proposition.
    I still maintain it's complete bollocks, even with your additional insight.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025

    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    On 3, does the government try to form before or after a vote?


    The government stays in place until an alternative government is formed. If Her Maj is advised that Mr Corbyn is likely to have the confidence of the House, she'll appoint him as PM and he then has to win a vote of confidence to confirm it and prevent the GE happening. In practice, Her Majesty's advisors would take soundings and rapidly conclude that there's zero chance of Mr Corbyn having the confidence of the House. Hell, he hasn't even got the confidence of his own Shadow Cabinet!
    That is far from clear constitutionally . The Balfour/Campbell-Bannerman precedent of December 1905 has been mentioned by some commentators as implying that Corbyn could be appointed as caretaker PM for the election period on the basis that May had already given up.
    JustinSmallStraws seems to be refering to himself in the third person, now.

    'Some commentators' indeed!
    I've mentioned that instance before.

    It is completely unknown how HM would act if a government No Confidenced itself. There is no real precedent though and it'd put the Palace in a very difficult position. If she refused to call Corbyn, she could be accused of partisanship; if she did, it'd look absurd.

    snip.
    Repeal of the ludicrous Fixed Term Act is the solution.
    Can't one sentence be added to the FTPA saying it expires 30/03/2017 or something?

    Robert Hazell thinks repeal is actually rather more difficult than it sounds:

    "There is also brave talk about repealing the Fixed Term Parliaments Act: for example, in the backbench debate last October. But this is wishful thinking, because repeal would be far from straightforward. It would require legislation, which would have to pass both Houses, with particular difficulties in the Lords. The legislation would face technical and political difficulties. The political difficulty is that reverting to the status quo ante would confer on the Prime Minister the advantage of choosing the date of the next election."


    https://constitution-unit.com/2015/05/22/can-david-cameron-call-a-second-election-how-does-that-fit-with-the-fixed-term-parliaments-act/
    All the govt has to do is pass a one line enabling bill for the election "Notwithstanding the provisions of the FTPA, ..."
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,992
    Mr. F, be a while until I can even consider getting something else, but how have they handled translating from Polish? Have they Anglicised the way we do (usually) with names like Achilles, or kept to a more Polish flavour (in The Witcher 3 I think nekkers are spelt with two Ks, whether it'd be more English to go for necker)?
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    RobD said:

    FTPA and early elections. Why now? What's changed? CCHQ panic that the election overspends will soon come to court?

    Edit: can't spell FTPA.

    That, or the huge poll leads!
    At least one of the seats is a Tory/Labour marginal. If they all have to be re-run, I can't imagine them losing that, even if they could lose a few to the Lib.Dems.

    So what if she ends up with a majority of five. Labour in 1977 had a majority of ... what was it, one??

    'Large majorities make for poor government'.
    Francis Pym, who was later sacked either for that or being a wet.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,018

    JackW said:

    Roger said:

    Hi Mike. Which street were you born in? I was born very close to this constituency on Brooklands Rd in Sale.

    Mike wasn't born, he was conceived and created by the amalgamation of stunning Liberal bar charts in post war Britain.
    I was born in a nursing home in Victoria Park.
    My very first job, over 50 years ago, as a pharmacist was in Longsight, part (I think) of the constituency. On the first Saturday the wife of a local GP phoned and asked me to ‘put down the cat, as it had been savaged by a bulldog.’
    I refused, saying she should call the vet, and was told that ‘Mr X, (my predecessor), always did it!”
    I was left wondering.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851
    edited March 2017

    Mr. F, be a while until I can even consider getting something else, but how have they handled translating from Polish? Have they Anglicised the way we do (usually) with names like Achilles, or kept to a more Polish flavour (in The Witcher 3 I think nekkers are spelt with two Ks, whether it'd be more English to go for necker)?

    The Polish and Celtic names are quite recognisable. Sometimes English equivalents are used. For species and titles, mostly English equivalents are used.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    All the govt has to do is pass a one line enabling bill for the election "Notwithstanding the provisions of the FTPA, ..."

    Such a bill would have to pass the HoL - Most unlikely especially as the government has no mandate for repeal and the PM has repeatedly said there will be no early election.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    Don't you think you should mention that you hardly impartial either, what with you being a UKIP candidate at the last General Election.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Stephen Hawking says Corbyn should step down. Pah! What does that guy know about anything...

    https://twitter.com/maomentum_/status/839012190015352833

    'Do you want to come outside and say that?'
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,992
    Mr. F, cheers, just curious, as the nun said to the football team.

    Using foreign names can be a nice shorthand for setting up a sense of time/place and/or easily distinguishing between differing backgrounds (if you have three characters called Heinrich, Pierre, and Jean-Luc, it's not hard to spot the odd one out).

    Only a little way into The Jewish War, but Mark Anthony's made an appearance. Reads like a little Shakespearian nudge amidst the 'proper' Latin names (weirdly, Pompey doesn't stand out as much. Not sure why).
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    I always wanted to do a degree/PhD in Nuclear Physics.

    I shall be PB's man on the spot in Gorton.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Fascinating test match between Oz and India - Wickets falling quicker than Paul Nuttall's credibility.

    Oz 103-7 requiring 85 to win.
  • Options
    Off topic, Mrs May is screwing over children again.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/839039848195502081
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    If you don't like it here then don't come onto the site. Every time you post on here it costs me money.

    That is, of course, the standard response when you can't rebut the actual point.

    I do like it here. Part of what I like is that we pick holes in each other's arguments...
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    Don't you think you should mention that you hardly impartial either, what with you being a UKIP candidate at the last General Election.
    I'm shocked I tell you, shocked, shocked and stunned that some PBers have partisan views on the nations greatest politics site ....

    I shall now lie down in a darkened room and contemplate the errors of my ways .... and especially agreeing to Mrs JackW latest trip to Paris .... :astonished:
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    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    All the govt has to do is pass a one line enabling bill for the election "Notwithstanding the provisions of the FTPA, ..."

    Such a bill would have to pass the HoL - Most unlikely especially as the government has no mandate for repeal and the PM has repeatedly said there will be no early election.

    The Lords would be courageous to try to resist an election being called.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,129

    JackW said:

    Roger said:

    Hi Mike. Which street were you born in? I was born very close to this constituency on Brooklands Rd in Sale.

    Mike wasn't born, he was conceived and created by the amalgamation of stunning Liberal bar charts in post war Britain.
    I was born in a nursing home in Victoria Park.
    JackW was already in a nursing home when you were born.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    I take it you mean "dazzled" as in blinded by incredulity !!
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    Don't you think you should mention that you hardly impartial either, what with you being a UKIP candidate at the last General Election.
    I wasn't (I refused to do some work for UKIP during the campaign, as it happens), and I criticised it too.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Roger said:

    Hi Mike. Which street were you born in? I was born very close to this constituency on Brooklands Rd in Sale.

    Mike wasn't born, he was conceived and created by the amalgamation of stunning Liberal bar charts in post war Britain.
    I was born in a nursing home in Victoria Park.
    JackW was already in a nursing home when you were born.
    Indeed so.

    Nurses in stockings and suspenders ..... :smiley:

    Nurse !!!!!!!!!!!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    All the govt has to do is pass a one line enabling bill for the election "Notwithstanding the provisions of the FTPA, ..."

    Such a bill would have to pass the HoL - Most unlikely especially as the government has no mandate for repeal and the PM has repeatedly said there will be no early election.

    The Lords would be courageous to try to resist an election being called.
    The Lords have no power to resist an election called under the terms of the FTPA but they do have the power to resist repeal of the FTPA.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,025

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    Don't you think you should mention that you hardly impartial either, what with you being a UKIP candidate at the last General Election.
    I wasn't (I refused to do some work for UKIP during the campaign, as it happens), and I criticised it too.
    Please examine the thread. If you look closely, you'll see I wasn't replying to you.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    Patrick said:

    Roger said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    You have to remember there was a time pre Trump and Brexit when telling bare faced lies as a politician was a resigning matter. Some of us just can't get used to the idea that its changed.
    I think it was Blair and his determination to politicise everything that got that particular ball rolling. The age of barefaced shamelessness was born in the culture of spin. Before Blair we didn't see it really, or not nearly so much. Major, Maggie, Wilson, Callaghan - all pretty straightforward whatever you think of their politics. Blair - total scuzzbucket and probably the most disliked man in the UK.
    I don't think he was a liar. Politicians obfuscate because they have no choice. They are asked questions that can't be answered.

    If you cast your mind back to Michael Crick's book 'Stranger than Fiction' about Jeffrey Archer and how it ruined his budding political career and stopped him becoming Mayor of London you can see how standards have shifted. In fact he was jailed for 4 years for a very minor perjury that is a daily occurance with Trump.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,203
    edited March 2017
    John_M said:

    Good, old Mel. Next she'll be saying God promised Britain to the Engli...oops...British.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/839022668720517120

    Good morning all.

    What mythical ancient unity is this? I can't read the original article, but the idea that there is some manifest destiny for a United Kingdom doesn't appear to bear up under examination.

    If Scotland becomes independent and Northern Ireland joins the Republic, we'll still be the United Kingdom of England & Wales (plus assorted odds and sods too otiose to list). We'll still keep the flag.

    I fail to see any particular issue. Remaining/Leaving the Union would seem to be a matter for the Scottish people. Both England and Scotland managed tolerably well up until 1707.
    Here the full piece in all it's half baked, ahistorical, irreconcilable, cod mystical glory.*

    http://archive.is/Tq8lH#selection-565.0-565.16

    *Apologies to all PBers who have trotted out similar guff over the years.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,984
    Roger said:

    Patrick said:

    Roger said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    You have to remember there was a time pre Trump and Brexit when telling bare faced lies as a politician was a resigning matter. Some of us just can't get used to the idea that its changed.
    I think it was Blair and his determination to politicise everything that got that particular ball rolling. The age of barefaced shamelessness was born in the culture of spin. Before Blair we didn't see it really, or not nearly so much. Major, Maggie, Wilson, Callaghan - all pretty straightforward whatever you think of their politics. Blair - total scuzzbucket and probably the most disliked man in the UK.
    I don't think he was a liar. Politicians obfuscate because they have no choice. They are asked questions that can't be answered.

    If you cast your mind back to Michael Crick's book 'Stranger than Fiction' about Jeffrey Archer and how it ruined his budding political career and stopped him becoming Mayor of London you can see how standards have shifted. In fact he was jailed for 4 years for a very minor perjury that is a daily occurance with Trump.
    Trump has lied in court every day?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2017
    Roger said:

    Patrick said:

    Roger said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    You have to remember there was a time pre Trump and Brexit when telling bare faced lies as a politician was a resigning matter. Some of us just can't get used to the idea that its changed.
    I think it was Blair and his determination to politicise everything that got that particular ball rolling. The age of barefaced shamelessness was born in the culture of spin. Before Blair we didn't see it really, or not nearly so much. Major, Maggie, Wilson, Callaghan - all pretty straightforward whatever you think of their politics. Blair - total scuzzbucket and probably the most disliked man in the UK.
    I don't think he was a liar. Politicians obfuscate because they have no choice. They are asked questions that can't be answered.
    You don't think Blair was a liar? !!! That's a brave view - in the Sir Humphrey sense.
    Are you of the opinion that the one act that has defined him and drives his deep unpopularity was based upon a truth? The dossier was not dodgy? He didn't deliberately lie to parliament?
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    eekeek Posts: 25,006
    edited March 2017

    Off topic, Mrs May is screwing over children again.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/839039848195502081

    I was bored yesterday and looked at some school budget figures across local authorities (work I need to do for something else). It's shocking how great some of the per pupil differences are (well over £2000 or 40% a child in some places)

    And I do remember that London does seem to get significantly more (even once you give them 20% as a London weighting),
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    If you don't like it here then don't come onto the site. Every time you post on here it costs me money.

    That is, of course, the standard response when you can't rebut the actual point.

    I do like it here. Part of what I like is that we pick holes in each other's arguments...
    In these days of post-truthiness we all have an ineluctable duty to point at Nuttall and laugh at him till our sides ache, and then point and laugh some more, to get the message across that lying to the electorate sucks. It's Nuttall that kippers should be frothing at, for making the party even more of a laughing stock than it used to be.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    John_M said:

    Good, old Mel. Next she'll be saying God promised Britain to the Engli...oops...British.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/839022668720517120

    Good morning all.

    What mythical ancient unity is this? I can't read the original article, but the idea that there is some manifest destiny for a United Kingdom doesn't appear to bear up under examination.

    If Scotland becomes independent and Northern Ireland joins the Republic, we'll still be the United Kingdom of England & Wales (plus assorted odds and sods too otiose to list). We'll still keep the flag.

    I fail to see any particular issue. Remaining/Leaving the Union would seem to be a matter for the Scottish people. Both England and Scotland managed tolerably well up until 1707.
    Here the full piece in all it's half baked, ahistorical, irreconcilable, cod mystical glory.*

    http://archive.is/Tq8lH#selection-565.0-565.16

    *Apologies to all PBers who have trotted out similar guff over the years.
    "it’s the ancient British Isles that must hold itself together to take its place once again as a sovereign nation in the wider world."

    Is she proposing to take the Irish republic by force?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,851

    Off topic, Mrs May is screwing over children again.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/839039848195502081

    Funding per pupil in London is way ahead of the rest of the country. In Tower Hamlets, it's twice the figure for Dorset.
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    I liked Rory Bremner's description of Blair's relationship with the truth.

    Blair was utterly convinced of the sincerity of whatever he was saying that regardless of the reality it meant that he was incapable of lying.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Mortimer said:

    FPT:

    justin124 said:

    RobD said:

    On 3, does the government try to form before or after a vote?


    The government stays in place until an alternative government is formed. If Her Maj is advised that Mr Corbyn is likely to have the confidence of the House, she'll appoint him as PM and he then has to win a vote of confidence to confirm it and prevent the GE happening. In practice, Her Majesty's advisors would take soundings and rapidly conclude that there's zero chance of Mr Corbyn having the confidence of the House. Hell, he hasn't even got the confidence of his own Shadow Cabinet!
    That is far from clear constitutionally . The Balfour/Campbell-Bannerman precedent of December 1905 has been mentioned by some commentators as implying that Corbyn could be appointed as caretaker PM for the election period on the basis that May had already given up.
    I've mentioned that instance before.

    It is completely unknown how HM would act if a government No Confidenced itself. There is no real precedent though and it'd put the Palace in a very difficult position. If she refused to call Corbyn, she could be accused of partisanship; if she did, it'd look absurd.

    But absurd or not, it'd be constitutionally correct, although she ought to ask senior Tories first, given the Con majority. But after that, expert opinion (from Bogdanor, for example) is that she should call the LotO. Obviously, he'd lose a VoC but what'd happen then is just as unknowable. He might be asked to resign (or be dismissed), and May asked again but would that be tenable if she (May) refused to meet parliament? I'm not sure it would. That could leave Corbyn in place until an election.
    Repeal of the ludicrous Fixed Term Act is the solution.
    Why is it ludicrous? Most countries have similar rules and most assemblies in Britain get by with fixed terms. If the consequences of trying to game it are ludicrous, that's a feture not a bug.
    Because it has removed the prerogative power of the Monarch to dissolve Parliament, leaving us situations like we might well face in a few months time, where a GE is needed to sort out a major or insoluble political issue, but we can't have one unless the government votes no confidence in itself or there is an opposition that is not terrified of an electoral wipeout and will join for the 2/3rd majority.

    The 5 year term is also long, iirc, compared to other countries who have this.
    I think it's long for 100% of MPs to be up for re-election each time. But that's another debate...
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,203

    John_M said:

    Good, old Mel. Next she'll be saying God promised Britain to the Engli...oops...British.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/839022668720517120

    Good morning all.

    What mythical ancient unity is this? I can't read the original article, but the idea that there is some manifest destiny for a United Kingdom doesn't appear to bear up under examination.

    If Scotland becomes independent and Northern Ireland joins the Republic, we'll still be the United Kingdom of England & Wales (plus assorted odds and sods too otiose to list). We'll still keep the flag.

    I fail to see any particular issue. Remaining/Leaving the Union would seem to be a matter for the Scottish people. Both England and Scotland managed tolerably well up until 1707.
    Here the full piece in all it's half baked, ahistorical, irreconcilable, cod mystical glory.*

    http://archive.is/Tq8lH#selection-565.0-565.16

    *Apologies to all PBers who have trotted out similar guff over the years.
    "it’s the ancient British Isles that must hold itself together to take its place once again as a sovereign nation in the wider world."

    Is she proposing to take the Irish republic by force?
    Don't give her ideas.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,273

    I liked Rory Bremner's description of Blair's relationship with the truth.

    Blair was utterly convinced of the sincerity of whatever he was saying that regardless of the reality it meant that he was incapable of lying.

    When did Blair lie?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I liked Rory Bremner's description of Blair's relationship with the truth.

    Blair was utterly convinced of the sincerity of whatever he was saying that regardless of the reality it meant that he was incapable of lying.

    When did Blair lie?
    Ecclestone, for starters.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Roger said:

    Patrick said:

    Roger said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    You have to remember there was a time pre Trump and Brexit when telling bare faced lies as a politician was a resigning matter. Some of us just can't get used to the idea that its changed.
    I think it was Blair and his determination to politicise everything that got that particular ball rolling. The age of barefaced shamelessness was born in the culture of spin. Before Blair we didn't see it really, or not nearly so much. Major, Maggie, Wilson, Callaghan - all pretty straightforward whatever you think of their politics. Blair - total scuzzbucket and probably the most disliked man in the UK.
    I don't think he was a liar. Politicians obfuscate because they have no choice. They are asked questions that can't be answered.

    If you cast your mind back to Michael Crick's book 'Stranger than Fiction' about Jeffrey Archer and how it ruined his budding political career and stopped him becoming Mayor of London you can see how standards have shifted. In fact he was jailed for 4 years for a very minor perjury that is a daily occurance with Trump.
    Blair obfuscated alright. He also lied, though he was more charming than most when doing it, for a time.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    I liked Rory Bremner's description of Blair's relationship with the truth.

    Blair was utterly convinced of the sincerity of whatever he was saying that regardless of the reality it meant that he was incapable of lying.

    When did Blair lie?
    Every time his lips moved.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/839044371722952704

    Biased overseas based media barons spreading fake news about the supreme leader again.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Asked if he wants a snap election, Jeremy Corbyn says: I want to see a different government, I don't want to see this government in office.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2017
    Talking of dunces....

    when Facebook asked the BBC to “provide examples of the material”, the Beeb’s lawyers should have sounded alarm bells. Instead, the BBC “did so”, and Facebook then reported them to the National Crime Agency

    https://order-order.com/2017/03/07/facebook-reports-bbc-police/
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)

    The question is whether Labour can lose.

    It would be amusing to see a Momentum candidate, a Real Labour candidate, a True Labour candidate, a New Labour candidate, and Gorgeous George
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    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    5...4...3...2...1...Justin Short Straws appears to tell us that there is precedent from the 1905 election in bognor that economic compentence numbers don't matter.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,273
    Is this poll before or after we found out, for the 2nd year in a row, that Corbyn can't even fill in his tax form?
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Asked if he wants a snap election, Jeremy Corbyn says: I want to see a different government, I don't want to see this government in office.

    I preferred this answer to that question.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/video_previews/l/y/lybhvinze69adrlrlisv66ue4nkankn-xlarge.jpg
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I realised this was a Smithson thread when I read the totally unnecessary snark at Paul Nuttall.

    If ever someone hunted the snark it’s PN.
    That's true, but kicking a man when he's down is unedifying.
    So we should cease commenting on Jeremy Corbyn too ?
    While either of them remain leader of their parties, they are fair game for any snark coming their way. To suggest otherwise is absurd.
    Indeed. Politics is brutal and often unfair, but these people are seeking power over the people, they need thick skin. Like a boxer it's not an opponent's job to go easy on the other guy, it's for the ref to put an end to it or his side to throw in the towel (e.g. They are removed by their own side) or wait for the final round and the judges to call it (e.g. An election)
    Correct, but the editor's desire to crowbar Nuttall into a piece that has absolutely nothing to do with him says a lot about the editor and detracts from an interesting subject.
    If you don't like it here then don't come onto the site. Every time you post on here it costs me money.

    Sorry, Boss, but why is that?
    Bandwidth & server time is not free. I've no idea how much traffic pb generates; I would imagine it can be substantial during interesting times.
    It'll be a fixed cost with fixed diskspace and a soft-capped bandwidth allocation if the server is on anything resembling a standard hosting package.

    So more visitors doesn't mean more cost until you hit a volume threshold where they insist you upgrade to the next package level.

    That's the same with the pricing structure for Vanilla - hit a certain number of page refreshes and the price goes up to a bigger package. That's probably what Mike is getting at. It doesn't mean that it's costing him 1p from his wallet every time we say something.

    On the contrary, every time we comment or otherwise refresh the page Mike makes advertising revenue. So it's in his interests for people to say stuff.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,752
    John_M said:

    Good, old Mel. Next she'll be saying God promised Britain to the Engli...oops...British.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/839022668720517120

    Good morning all.

    What mythical ancient unity is this? I can't read the original article, but the idea that there is some manifest destiny for a United Kingdom doesn't appear to bear up under examination.

    If Scotland becomes independent and Northern Ireland joins the Republic, we'll still be the United Kingdom of England & Wales (plus assorted odds and sods too otiose to list). We'll still keep the flag.

    I fail to see any particular issue. Remaining/Leaving the Union would seem to be a matter for the Scottish people. Both England and Scotland managed tolerably well up until 1707.
    I genuinely admire the English for their equanimity and for saying it's up to Scotland to decide whether to continue in the Union and therefore any result is acceptable. In reality the United Kingdom won't exist any more in a meaningful form. It will have a profound effect on England's place in the world and will see Wales status diminished as a nation.

    England and Scotland didn't manage very well before 1707, hence the Union. It was mostly a business deal, and not because of any brotherly love.
  • Options

    Is this poll before or after we found out, for the 2nd year in a row, that Corbyn can't even fill in his tax form?
    Before. Fieldwork was Friday to Sunday
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    Reason #34342 for the housing shortage:

    A bridging loan I'm involved with:

    B******l Road, Sandbanks (BPF543)
    The borrowers continue to await the planning decision including the adjacent site, which was expected by the end of February. The planning officer who was dealing with the decision is off on long term sick leave, and the borrowers are still waiting for the application to be reallocated to another officer.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    Lib Dems still not capitalising on Corbyn's woes.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/839053489368154113
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    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    edited March 2017
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Is there a blue plague at Mike Smithson's birthplace in Gorton - or perhaps a yellow plaque?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    edited March 2017

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    When I drove through Cheshire last, I thought to myself that this is just like Rusholme.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    I'm not sure you're even being serious here, but - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/03/02/the-quite-extraordinary-demographics-of-manchester-gorton-where-the-next-westminster-by-election-will-be-held/

    Young, poorish, lots of students. It's Con take Bootle territory, and no, Osborne couldn't have done that either.
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    Essexit said:

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    I'm not sure you're even being serious here, but - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/03/02/the-quite-extraordinary-demographics-of-manchester-gorton-where-the-next-westminster-by-election-will-be-held/

    Young, poorish, lots of students. It's Con take Bootle territory, and no, Osborne couldn't have done that either.
    I have, and do spend lots of time in Rusholme a lot, I know the seat quite well.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,992
    Mr. Evershed, did you mean 'blue plague'? :p
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    I wonder if the Greens will put in a serious effort here, they were second last GE and it is perfect territory for them.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Talking of dunces....

    when Facebook asked the BBC to “provide examples of the material”, the Beeb’s lawyers should have sounded alarm bells. Instead, the BBC “did so”, and Facebook then reported them to the National Crime Agency

    https://order-order.com/2017/03/07/facebook-reports-bbc-police/

    Facebook seems to have some funny rules for what material they take down.

    Rows about the removal of apparently innocuous material seem to get absurdly high levels of news coverage from time to time (quite often a "front page story" on the BBC website!).

    And yet I have reported really gruesome, bloody images to FB in the past of the dead bodies of someone killed by Islamists, replete with hundreds of comments underneath saying things like this is what the **** deserved for violating her religion (and, to be fair, even more people expressing sympathy with the poor lass - though despite them being the numerical majority of the comments, it was the nastiest ones that had got hundreds of upvotes!) but I got a message back saying that the images did not violate their policies!

    I was astonished by that - I had presumed they would fall under the aegis of anti-terror or anti-incitement legislation, even if basic human decency wasn't enough.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,191

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    The roadworks on the M6 in Ozzie's constituency are a complete pain. I wonder whether they'll be finished before the ones on the M3 near me?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    If the Greens can't do well here then they are probably destined to remain a 1 seat party for some considerable time.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2017

    Talking of dunces....

    when Facebook asked the BBC to “provide examples of the material”, the Beeb’s lawyers should have sounded alarm bells. Instead, the BBC “did so”, and Facebook then reported them to the National Crime Agency

    https://order-order.com/2017/03/07/facebook-reports-bbc-police/

    Facebook seems to have some funny rules for what material they take down.

    Rows about the removal of apparently innocuous material seem to get absurdly high levels of news coverage from time to time (quite often a "front page story" on the BBC website!).

    And yet I have reported really gruesome, bloody images to FB in the past of the dead bodies of someone killed by Islamists, replete with hundreds of comments underneath saying things like this is what the **** deserved for violating her religion (and, to be fair, even more people expressing sympathy with the poor lass - though despite them being the numerical majority of the comments, it was the nastiest ones that had got hundreds of upvotes!) but I got a message back saying that the images did not violate their policies!

    I was astonished by that - I had presumed they would fall under the aegis of anti-terror or anti-incitement legislation, even if basic human decency wasn't enough.
    Don't disagree with any of that. My point one in this case it seems that rather than the bbc researchers showing facebook in person to where on the site this material is or names of the private groups where the material is being shared, they downloaded example images and sent them to Facebook.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    The similiarity between Gorton and Tatton is quite striking.

    Tatton: http://tinyurl.com/jrh2gq4
    Gorton: http://tinyurl.com/h6efeol
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,094
    Hungary votes to intern asylum seekers...
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,273
    Pulpstar said:

    If the Greens can't do well here then they are probably destined to remain a 1 seat party for some considerable time.

    Even that is under threat from boundary changes.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    The similiarity between Gorton and Tatton is quite striking.

    Tatton: http://tinyurl.com/jrh2gq4
    Gorton: http://tinyurl.com/h6efeol

    I lived in Styal in the Tatton constituency for two years back in 2009-11, and then moved next door to Gorton back in 2011, you need to spend a lot of time in both to appreciate their similarities.
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,602

    Is this poll before or after we found out, for the 2nd year in a row, that Corbyn can't even fill in his tax form?
    Why shouldn't Corbyn employ an accountant to fill out his tax return? Or was your meaning that he/someone had filled it out incorrectly? If the latter, you need to use a broader range of media sources.

  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    The roadworks on the M6 in Ozzie's constituency are a complete pain. I wonder whether they'll be finished before the ones on the M3 near me?
    If they put together an integrated set of road improvements in the North West, it would be such a boon to the economy.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,657
    Pulpstar said:

    Reason #34342 for the housing shortage:

    A bridging loan I'm involved with:

    B******l Road, Sandbanks (BPF543)
    The borrowers continue to await the planning decision including the adjacent site, which was expected by the end of February. The planning officer who was dealing with the decision is off on long term sick leave, and the borrowers are still waiting for the application to be reallocated to another officer.

    A few years ago I applied for planning permission. The deadline was 24/12 and permission was granted that day. It must have been one hell of a party:

    I received permission to build a conservatory and convert my garage into accommodation. I actually applied to extend my garage and build a porch (this was a very uncontroversial tick box exercise).

    Apparently according to the description in the documents I then received my house is both semi detached and detached with a small and a large front garden on a corner plot. The nearest corner is 20 houses away. The measurements to the boundaries were interesting!

    Other than that it was spot on.

    There was clearly quite a bit of cutting and pasting from at least one other application that had nothing to do with me.

    I thanked them for the permission, but pointed out it was useless. It was corrected a number of weeks later, but interestingly they wouldn't change the decision date because that would have meant they had missed their deadline.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Sean_F said:

    Off topic, Mrs May is screwing over children again.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/839039848195502081

    Funding per pupil in London is way ahead of the rest of the country. In Tower Hamlets, it's twice the figure for Dorset.

    What are the comparative figures for deprivation between Tower Hamlets and Dorset?

    Do they justify twice the spend on funding per pupil in Tower Hamlets versus Dorset (if that is indeed the case)?
  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,602

    Hungary votes to intern asylum seekers...

    The same Hungary that wants to retain the unrestricted right for any of its citizens to come and live in the UK.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Talking of dunces....

    when Facebook asked the BBC to “provide examples of the material”, the Beeb’s lawyers should have sounded alarm bells. Instead, the BBC “did so”, and Facebook then reported them to the National Crime Agency

    https://order-order.com/2017/03/07/facebook-reports-bbc-police/

    Facebook seems to have some funny rules for what material they take down.

    Rows about the removal of apparently innocuous material seem to get absurdly high levels of news coverage from time to time (quite often a "front page story" on the BBC website!).

    And yet I have reported really gruesome, bloody images to FB in the past of the dead bodies of someone killed by Islamists, replete with hundreds of comments underneath saying things like this is what the **** deserved for violating her religion (and, to be fair, even more people expressing sympathy with the poor lass - though despite them being the numerical majority of the comments, it was the nastiest ones that had got hundreds of upvotes!) but I got a message back saying that the images did not violate their policies!

    I was astonished by that - I had presumed they would fall under the aegis of anti-terror or anti-incitement legislation, even if basic human decency wasn't enough.
    Don't disagree with any of that. My point one in this case it seems that rather than the bbc researchers showing facebook in person to where on the site this material is or names of the private groups where the material is being shared, they downloaded example images and sent them to Facebook.
    Yes, sorry I was shoehorning only a semi-related point in.

    I saw a documentary about how the police deal with this kind of thing - if anyone rings up about it, one of the first things they say is do not send it to us as that would constitute a criminal offence. They then explain the correct manner to communicate the information.

    It was ridiculously amateurish of the BBC researchers to do what they did (I don't know the facts but it might be they did not consider the example images they sent to be explicit per se, but only inappropriate in the context of a group leering over them, or it might just be that they didn't know the law...) but if FB "asked for examples" they should have a clearer protocol for doing so.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,936
    Should Facebook have "asked for examples" ?

    I'm not certain they are on a clean wicket myself.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Pulpstar said:

    The similiarity between Gorton and Tatton is quite striking.

    Tatton: http://tinyurl.com/jrh2gq4
    Gorton: http://tinyurl.com/h6efeol

    :D
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    One of the possible Labour candidates was in court in 2010, but bound over.

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/councillor-in-the-clear-over-attack-claim-891264
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Pulpstar said:

    Should Facebook have "asked for examples" ?

    I'm not certain they are on a clean wicket myself.

    It sounds a lot like the conversation mirrored ones going on in these private groups!
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    The roadworks on the M6 in Ozzie's constituency are a complete pain. I wonder whether they'll be finished before the ones on the M3 near me?
    If they put together an integrated set of road improvements in the North West, it would be such a boon to the economy.
    Road improvements across the whole country would be the single most important way to improve the Uk economy. Over 90% of travel is by road and spending could be focused on road intersections which are responsible for transport delays.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Hungary votes to intern asylum seekers...

    The same Hungary that wants to retain the unrestricted right for any of its citizens to come and live in the UK.
    This is a very good point that is not mentioned enough.

    E.g., Some parts of Eastern Europe have seen stupendous population declines because of migration to the West. Lithuania had a population of 3.7 million in 1990 when it broke from the USSR, it now has a population of 2.9 million.

    Population decline at this level means that there are empty houses, empty schools, declining communities that need new people.

    And yet, these countries are very unwilling to accept new migrants, who need housing, schooling, etc.

    The EU is right to get tough with the Eastern states.

    A concomitant to freedom of movement for your people is, if your people do move, then the empty houses can be filled by others seeking to migrate to safety in Europe.


  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,273
    kjh said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Reason #34342 for the housing shortage:

    A bridging loan I'm involved with:

    B******l Road, Sandbanks (BPF543)
    The borrowers continue to await the planning decision including the adjacent site, which was expected by the end of February. The planning officer who was dealing with the decision is off on long term sick leave, and the borrowers are still waiting for the application to be reallocated to another officer.

    A few years ago I applied for planning permission. The deadline was 24/12 and permission was granted that day. It must have been one hell of a party:

    I received permission to build a conservatory and convert my garage into accommodation. I actually applied to extend my garage and build a porch (this was a very uncontroversial tick box exercise).

    Apparently according to the description in the documents I then received my house is both semi detached and detached with a small and a large front garden on a corner plot. The nearest corner is 20 houses away. The measurements to the boundaries were interesting!

    Other than that it was spot on.

    There was clearly quite a bit of cutting and pasting from at least one other application that had nothing to do with me.

    I thanked them for the permission, but pointed out it was useless. It was corrected a number of weeks later, but interestingly they wouldn't change the decision date because that would have meant they had missed their deadline.
    Don't start me on planning officers. We did major work on our house six years ago, which included an extension and new roof. It is a modern-ish 50s house. The new plans made it look more modern.

    We were turned down because the design of the new roof was not in keeping with rest of street. The street is bog-standard, a complete mongrel as far as design goes - a number of brand new bungalows, a couple of strips of pre-war small semis, two or three detached, 1970s newish builds and at one end a couple of 1920s detached houses. So which bit was it not in keeping with?

    Meanwhile, a mate, who lives in a Conservation zone, fought and lost against plans to knock down a charming 1920s bungalow in his street and replace it with a brand new, ultra modern, architect designed house.

    Bonkers.
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    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Hungary votes to intern asylum seekers...

    The same Hungary that wants to retain the unrestricted right for any of its citizens to come and live in the UK.
    This is a very good point that is not mentioned enough.

    E.g., Some parts of Eastern Europe have seen stupendous population declines because of migration to the West. Lithuania had a population of 3.7 million in 1990 when it broke from the USSR, it now has a population of 2.9 million.

    Population decline at this level means that there are empty houses, empty schools, declining communities that need new people.

    And yet, these countries are very unwilling to accept new migrants, who need housing, schooling, etc.

    The EU is right to get tough with the Eastern states.

    A concomitant to freedom of movement for your people is, if your people do move, then the empty houses can be filled by others seeking to migrate to safety in Europe.


    But if you took someone from The Jungle and told them they will now have a new life in Slovakia or Bulgaria, do you think they'd stay there?

    They don't even want to stay in France.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,992
    Any ETA on the tete-a-tete-a-tete today between Fillon, Sarkozy and Juppe?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,191

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    The roadworks on the M6 in Ozzie's constituency are a complete pain. I wonder whether they'll be finished before the ones on the M3 near me?
    If they put together an integrated set of road improvements in the North West, it would be such a boon to the economy.
    Road improvements across the whole country would be the single most important way to improve the Uk economy. Over 90% of travel is by road and spending could be focused on road intersections which are responsible for transport delays.
    They should start with Junction 3 of the M3, and consider building the M31:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M31_motorway
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,782
    Shall I put you down as "undecided"?

    George's ticking time-bomb legacy: Insidious steal taxes. Deeply flawed gimmicks. Failed saving schemes. George Osborne was fired months ago - but on the eve of the Budget, a damning analysis exposes the poisonous inheritance he left Britain

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4288242/George-Osborne-s-poisonous-legacy-failed-gimmicks.html
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Hungary votes to intern asylum seekers...

    The same Hungary that wants to retain the unrestricted right for any of its citizens to come and live in the UK.
    This is a very good point that is not mentioned enough.

    E.g., Some parts of Eastern Europe have seen stupendous population declines because of migration to the West. Lithuania had a population of 3.7 million in 1990 when it broke from the USSR, it now has a population of 2.9 million.

    Population decline at this level means that there are empty houses, empty schools, declining communities that need new people.

    And yet, these countries are very unwilling to accept new migrants, who need housing, schooling, etc.

    The EU is right to get tough with the Eastern states.

    A concomitant to freedom of movement for your people is, if your people do move, then the empty houses can be filled by others seeking to migrate to safety in Europe.


    But if you took someone from The Jungle and told them they will now have a new life in Slovakia or Bulgaria, do you think they'd stay there?

    They don't even want to stay in France.
    Of course they wouldn't. Given a choice between London and Eastern Lithuania, even the Lithuanians choose London!

    Myself, I think it is reasonable to admit migrants and tell them they are living in a certain area for 10 years..

    In fact, isn't that why there are Syrians on the Isle of Bute?

    Bute, like Eastern Lithuania, is depopulating. The Scottish Government settled them where there are empty houses. But, I don't think they can now just move to Glasgow or London, can they?

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    BudGBudG Posts: 711

    Any ETA on the tete-a-tete-a-tete today between Fillon, Sarkozy and Juppe?

    Don't think it will be today. He has agreed to have a meeting with them and some reports say it might be tomorrow.
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    theakestheakes Posts: 842
    Gorton Hills 5-1, Labrokes 6-1.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2017
    French election: An interesting opinion poll on attitudes to the FN:

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/presidentielles/2017/03/07/35003-20170307ARTFIG00051-les-idees-du-fn-progressent-dans-l-opinion-mais-pas-l-image-du-parti.php

    Key points:

    - 58% of French voters think that the FN is a danger to French democracy, that is 10% more than a survey found in 2012. Of course, that increase might be because the prospect of a President Le Pen seems a more imminent danger than it did in 2012.

    - The party does especially badly amongst women, people who work at manager level or above, and people over 65..

    - 29% of voters say they either have voted FN in the past and will do so again (17%), or that they might do so for the first time (12%). A further 3% say they have voted FN in the past but won't do so again.

    - Notwithstanding the unpopularity of the party, some of its policies are more popular, especially amongst blue-collar workers.

    My take on this is that Marine Le Pen is going to be beaten quite easily in the second round. When push comes to shove, and it's Le Pen vs (probably) Macron, I think voters from quite a wide range of existing positions will vote for the Not Le Pen candidate.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Hungary’s parliament has approved the automatic detention of all asylum seekers in container camps on the southern borders, dismissing concerns from human rights groups.
    The legislation, approved by a large majority of politicians, was created in response to recent terrorist attacks in Europe carried out by migrants, the hardline prime minister, Viktor Orbán, has said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/07/-hungary-to-detain-all-asylum-seekers-in-container-camps

    Photo below shows the 'ship containers' where the Guardian claims they’ll be housed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/10/hungary-stoops-to-new-low-over-treatment-of-asylum-seekers#img-1
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Essexit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'm really upset now, PBers think only Mike is snarky about Paul Nuttall in thread headers.

    Clearly you're all dazzled by my awesome puns to notice the snark.

    You know the Tories can't win in Gorton :)
    Not with Mrs May in charge.
    CMD or Gideon could have charmed the pants off Gorton's voters and won, obviously.
    Absolutely.

    Before George Osborne became the MP for Tatton, the Tories were over 11,000 votes behind in second place, now his seat has an 18,000 vote Tory majority.

    Given the relative proximity of Tatton to Gorton, George would have seen Gorton turn blue.
    The roadworks on the M6 in Ozzie's constituency are a complete pain. I wonder whether they'll be finished before the ones on the M3 near me?
    If they put together an integrated set of road improvements in the North West, it would be such a boon to the economy.
    Road improvements across the whole country would be the single most important way to improve the Uk economy. Over 90% of travel is by road and spending could be focused on road intersections which are responsible for transport delays.
    They should start with Junction 3 of the M3, and consider building the M31:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M31_motorway

    They should, but remember: Cars -> bad. Everything else -> good.

    Politics beats reality, sadly.

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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    https://order-order.com/2017/03/07/corbyns-next-budget-balls-up/

    Couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery mother friendly after work social which doesn't involve the pub.
This discussion has been closed.