politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Northern Ireland Assembly Election Result : March 2nd 2017
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Northern Ireland Assembly Election Result : March 2nd 2017
Changes in seats are based on readjusted Assembly calculations
Comments
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10
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Unionism has seen what's coming.0
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Claire Sugden should be added to the Unionists. And PBP and Cross Community Labour don't designate themselves as Nationalist.0
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I saw on sky news macron campaign claiming Russian hacking / smearing campaign.0
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So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.0
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FPT
Some? Nearly all of Trump's critics are opposed to his policies in one way or another. It is just that they have additional concerns about his personality, and temperant alongside that. Opposition to Conservative issues is hardly muffled - the Women's March was in part a march against the administration's plans concerning Planned Parenthood and the desire of many Republicans to seen Rode v Wade overturned. Immigration changes may not be the number one priority, but they were certainly up there for the Republican base who have been passionate about this issue even prior to Trump.Mortimer said:
Yes - the haters. Some are opposed to his policies, others are so enraged that they rail against the bluster and opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. Infrastructure spending, tax cuts and conservative justices are the real aim. Immigration changes are not exactly priority number one for the conservatives
Tax cuts can be reserved; they hardly quantify as something which will engineer some massive revolution that Trump's successor will not be able to overturn. Tax reform, conservative justices are all issues Conservatives care about yes. But immigration, and Obamacare are just as important and so far neither of these things are going well.
Infrastructure spending is not really a Conservative issue. Of all the things that the likes of Paul Ryan et al get excited about all of things I've just listed are way more important to them than infrastructure spending.
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The women's march doesn't swing votes in the rust belt, suprisingly..The_Apocalypse said:FPT
Some? Nearly all of Trump's critics are opposed to his policies in one way or another. It is just that they have additional concerns about his personality, and temperant alongside that. Opposition to Conservative issues is hardly muffled - the Women's March was in part a march against the administration's plans concerning Planned Parenthood and the desire of many Republicans to seen Rode v Wade overturned. Immigration changes may not be the number one priority, but they were certainly up there for the Republican base who have been passionate about this issue even prior to Trump.Mortimer said:
Yes - the haters. Some are opposed to his policies, others are so enraged that they rail against the bluster and opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. Infrastructure spending, tax cuts and conservative justices are the real aim. Immigration changes are not exactly priority number one for the conservatives
Tax cuts can be reserved; they hardly quantify as something which will engineer some massive revolution that Trump's successor will not be able to overturn. Tax reform, conservative justices are all issues Conservatives care about yes. But immigration, and Obamacare are just as important and so far neither of these things are going well.
Infrastructure spending is not really a Conservative issue. Of all the things that the likes of Paul Ryan et al get excited about all of things I've just listed are way more important to them than infrastructure spending.0 -
Thank you for that clarification, I wasn't entirely sure so erred on the side of caution.. That's Unionists 40, Nationalists 39, Others 11Sean_F said:Claire Sugden should be added to the Unionists. And PBP and Cross Community Labour don't designate themselves as Nationalist.
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Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.0
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Well, I didn't say that it did. It was in response to your statement that 'opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.' In America abortion is definitely a Conservative issue.Mortimer said:
The women's march doesn't swing votes in the rust belt, suprisingly..The_Apocalypse said:FPT
Some? Nearly all of Trump's critics are opposed to his policies in one way or another. It is just that they have additional concerns about his personality, and temperant alongside that. Opposition to Conservative issues is hardly muffled - the Women's March was in part a march against the administration's plans concerning Planned Parenthood and the desire of many Republicans to seen Rode v Wade overturned. Immigration changes may not be the number one priority, but they were certainly up there for the Republican base who have been passionate about this issue even prior to Trump.Mortimer said:
Yes - the haters. Some are opposed to his policies, others are so enraged that they rail against the bluster and opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. Infrastructure spending, tax cuts and conservative justices are the real aim. Immigration changes are not exactly priority number one for the conservatives
Tax cuts can be reserved; they hardly quantify as something which will engineer some massive revolution that Trump's successor will not be able to overturn. Tax reform, conservative justices are all issues Conservatives care about yes. But immigration, and Obamacare are just as important and so far neither of these things are going well.
Infrastructure spending is not really a Conservative issue. Of all the things that the likes of Paul Ryan et al get excited about all of things I've just listed are way more important to them than infrastructure spending.0 -
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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France 24 is reporting that at Fillon's campaign launch today he gave no indication of any statement tomorrow at all.TheScreamingEagles said:
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If you don't think that the women's march muffles real opposition, you can't see the wood for the trees.The_Apocalypse said:
Well, I didn't say that it did. It was in response to your statement that 'opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.' In America abortion is definitely a Conservative issue.Mortimer said:
The women's march doesn't swing votes in the rust belt, suprisingly..The_Apocalypse said:FPT
Some? Nearly all of Trump's critics are opposed to his policies in one way or another. It is just that they have additional concerns about his personality, and temperant alongside that. Opposition to Conservative issues is hardly muffled - the Women's March was in part a march against the administration's plans concerning Planned Parenthood and the desire of many Republicans to seen Rode v Wade overturned. Immigration changes may not be the number one priority, but they were certainly up there for the Republican base who have been passionate about this issue even prior to Trump.Mortimer said:
Yes - the haters. Some are opposed to his policies, others are so enraged that they rail against the bluster and opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. Infrastructure spending, tax cuts and conservative justices are the real aim. Immigration changes are not exactly priority number one for the conservatives
Tax cuts can be reserved; they hardly quantify as something which will engineer some massive revolution that Trump's successor will not be able to overturn. Tax reform, conservative justices are all issues Conservatives care about yes. But immigration, and Obamacare are just as important and so far neither of these things are going well.
Infrastructure spending is not really a Conservative issue. Of all the things that the likes of Paul Ryan et al get excited about all of things I've just listed are way more important to them than infrastructure spending.0 -
Thanks as ever Harry!0
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Great leaders earn loyalty.Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Blind loyalty is the what leads to Corbynism or Gordon Brown's coronation.0 -
Double digit poll leads in Government not enough? You're a tough cookie!TheScreamingEagles said:
Great leaders earn loyalty.Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Blind loyalty is the what leads to Corbynism or Gordon Brown's coronation.0 -
You're going to have elaborate on that statement instead of dismissively saying 'you can't see the wood for the trees.' The Democrats and any other pro-abortion rights groups are going to have to rely on protest etc because the GOP have the WH and Congress.Mortimer said:
If you don't think that the women's march muffles real opposition, you can't see the wood for the trees.The_Apocalypse said:
Well, I didn't say that it did. It was in response to your statement that 'opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.' In America abortion is definitely a Conservative issue.Mortimer said:
The women's march doesn't swing votes in the rust belt, suprisingly..The_Apocalypse said:FPT
Some? Nearly all of Trump's critics are opposed to his policies in one way or another. It is just that they have additional concerns about his personality, and temperant alongside that. Opposition to Conservative issues is hardly muffled - the Women's March was in part a march against the administration's plans concerning Planned Parenthood and the desire of many Republicans to seen Rode v Wade overturned. Immigration changes may not be the number one priority, but they were certainly up there for the Republican base who have been passionate about this issue even prior to Trump.Mortimer said:
Yes - the haters. Some are opposed to his policies, others are so enraged that they rail against the bluster and opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. Infrastructure spending, tax cuts and conservative justices are the real aim. Immigration changes are not exactly priority number one for the conservatives
Tax cuts can be reserved; they hardly quantify as something which will engineer some massive revolution that Trump's successor will not be able to overturn. Tax reform, conservative justices are all issues Conservatives care about yes. But immigration, and Obamacare are just as important and so far neither of these things are going well.
Infrastructure spending is not really a Conservative issue. Of all the things that the likes of Paul Ryan et al get excited about all of things I've just listed are way more important to them than infrastructure spending.0 -
So far, I think she's made a good start.TheScreamingEagles said:
Great leaders earn loyalty.Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Blind loyalty is the what leads to Corbynism or Gordon Brown's coronation.0 -
I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.0 -
Can not see May agreeing to any referendum on Northern Irelands future.TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.The_Apocalypse said:
You're going to have elaborate on that statement instead of dismissively saying 'you can't see the wood for the trees.' The Democrats and any other pro-abortion rights groups are going to have to rely on protest because the GOP have the WH and Congress.Mortimer said:
If you don't think that the women's march muffles real opposition, you can't see the wood for the trees.The_Apocalypse said:
Well, I didn't say that it did. It was in response to your statement that 'opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.' In America abortion is definitely a Conservative issue.Mortimer said:
The women's march doesn't swing votes in the rust belt, suprisingly..The_Apocalypse said:FPT
Some? Nearly all of Trump's critics are opposed to his policies in one way or another. It is just that they have additional concerns about his personality, and temperant alongside that. Opposition to Conservative issues is hardly muffled - the Women's March was in part a march against the administration's plans concerning Planned Parenthood and the desire of many Republicans to seen Rode v Wade overturned. Immigration changes may not be the number one priority, but they were certainly up there for the Republican base who have been passionate about this issue even prior to Trump.Mortimer said:
Yes - the haters. Some are opposed to his policies, others are so enraged that they rail against the bluster and opposition to Conservative issues is muffled.
It isn't exactly difficult to understand. Infrastructure spending, tax cuts and conservative justices are the real aim. Immigration changes are not exactly priority number one for the conservatives
Tax cuts can be reserved; they hardly quantify as something which will engineer some massive revolution that Trump's successor will not be able to overturn. Tax reform, conservative justices are all issues Conservatives care about yes. But immigration, and Obamacare are just as important and so far neither of these things are going well.
Infrastructure spending is not really a Conservative issue. Of all the things that the likes of Paul Ryan et al get excited about all of things I've just listed are way more important to them than infrastructure spending.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.0 -
The Good Friday Agreement outlines the circumstances under which a referendum must be held. May or anyone else could not renege on that, unless the GFA itself was totally scrapped.Yorkcity said:
Can not see May agreeing to any referendum on Northern Irelands future.TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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Interesting development in corporate Scotland:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/standard-life-and-aberdeen-asset-management-confirm-merger-talks-1-43833360 -
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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Must not post that picture of Hitler at the Trocadéro.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.0 -
Thought we might have an Opinium poll in tomorrow's Observer.
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The prize is too big. If he can get to R2 against Le Pen chances are he becomes president.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.
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Yep he'd have announced thursday if he was standing down.Mortimer said:
This has shades of Thursday all over again.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.
Its reminding me a bit of Trump's campaign actually..0 -
My book is even more of a mess! Not terrible, just messy. Macron v Juppé is great, Juppé v Le Pen terrible.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.0 -
Wowzer.calum said:Interesting development in corporate Scotland:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/standard-life-and-aberdeen-asset-management-confirm-merger-talks-1-43833360 -
-411.5 Le PenTheWhiteRabbit said:
My book is even more of a mess! Not terrible, just messy. Macron v Juppé is great, Juppé v Le Pen terrible.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.
+207.49 Macron
+358.36 Fillon
+17.15 Juppe
+20.59 Other
+375.68 Baroin
+95.64 Melenchon
-152.31 Hamon0 -
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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Can PBP and the Cross-Community Labour Party be described as "Nationalist"?0
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No. Both are agnostic on the Border.Sunil_Prasannan said:Can PBP and the Cross-Community Labour Party be described as "Nationalist"?
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Not with Nationalists polling sub-40%....TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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I think the final paragraph should say:
First Preference Wins on proposed constituencies: DUP 8, Sinn Fein 8, Too close to call 1
The total must be 17.0 -
Dutch poll:
Peil PVV/WIlders 25 leads VVD/Rutte 24
The election is 11 days.
My forecast at the moment is PVV 24, VVD 22 (we shall see!) - the 2.3 on the VVD winning is fair.0 -
Been drinking for a while but could I request a thread on the Cheltenham week please? Need to go to bed hic
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Can we swapPulpstar said:
-411.5 Le PenTheWhiteRabbit said:
My book is even more of a mess! Not terrible, just messy. Macron v Juppé is great, Juppé v Le Pen terrible.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.
+207.49 Macron
+358.36 Fillon
+17.15 Juppe
+20.59 Other
+375.68 Baroin
+95.64 Melenchon
-152.31 Hamon
though my worst mistake was selling Juppé five days ago. 0 -
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
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Total Nationalist vote 39.70%, seats 39.Sean_F said:
No. Both are agnostic on the Border.Sunil_Prasannan said:Can PBP and the Cross-Community Labour Party be described as "Nationalist"?
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The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.0 -
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.0 -
Looking at the NI constituency list, I get 'Down South', but shouldn't 'Down North' be 'Up North'?0
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Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
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Your plans are Foyled once again, Sandy!SandyRentool said:Looking at the NI constituency list, I get 'Down South', but shouldn't 'Down North' be 'Up North'?
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All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.0 -
And the Left's cosying up to Islamists may reverse progress on women's rights and LGBT equality...The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.
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Mine is similar, except Fillon lower and Juppe higher, and that I've scaled down Baroin to 0 - never heard of him, surely he's not a serious contender?Pulpstar said:
-411.5 Le PenTheWhiteRabbit said:
My book is even more of a mess! Not terrible, just messy. Macron v Juppé is great, Juppé v Le Pen terrible.Pulpstar said:I think Fillon is going to set rocket burners under his campaign tomorrow. Can feel it in my bones.
You wouldn't stand down giving a speech at the Trocadero ffsake.
+207.49 Macron
+358.36 Fillon
+17.15 Juppe
+20.59 Other
+375.68 Baroin
+95.64 Melenchon
-152.31 Hamon0 -
Mr. Palmer, a lot of people said that about Corbyn in 2015...0
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Though a majority of his party voted against it, just as it did at Holyrood.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.0 -
The notion of a state-funded healthcare is a socialist/leftist idea. William Beveridge was a liberal.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.
I don't see what your point is re Cameron legalising LGBTQ. It was the Left who had been campaigning for LGBTQ rights for years while the Conservatives supported Section 28. It was not Conservatives who turned public opinion around on LGBTQ issues. If anything it was because of the turn around in public opinion that the Conservatives took on the Gay Marriage policy as a means to show that they had 'changed' and were different from how they were in the 1980s. Much of Cameron's social liberalism was in reaction to Tony Blair, and his and Labour's success in shifting the public that way during his time in office.0 -
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?0 -
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/david-mundell-slams-indy-blogger-9963256Theuniondivvie said:
Though a majority of his party voted against it, just as it did at Holyrood.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.
0 -
FAT LADSandyRentool said:Looking at the NI constituency list, I get 'Down South', but shouldn't 'Down North' be 'Up North'?
method to remember the six counties.0 -
Is it grim Down North?SandyRentool said:Looking at the NI constituency list, I get 'Down South', but shouldn't 'Down North' be 'Up North'?
0 -
I struggle to keep up with the acronyms.The_Apocalypse said:
The notion of a state-funded healthcare is a socialist/leftist idea. William Beveridge was a liberal.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.
I don't see what your point is re Cameron legalising LGBTQ. It was the Left who had been campaigning for LGBTQ rights for years while the Conservatives supported Section 28. It was not Conservatives who turned public opinion around on LGBTQ issues. If anything it was because of the turn around in public opinion that the Conservatives took on the Gay Marriage policy as a means to show that they had 'changed' and were different from how they were in the 1980s. Much of Cameron's social liberalism was in reaction to Tony Blair, and his and Labour's success in shifting the public that way during his time in office.
Very cynical re: Cameron, but not re Blair. Strange, that.0 -
That's not true, is it? This says 45% against: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/feb/06/gay-marriage-vote-map-mp#partyTheuniondivvie said:
Though a majority of his party voted against it, just as it did at Holyrood.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.0 -
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?0 -
West Belfast standing on its own there a bit like West Berlin used to !0
-
Irrelevant to the point I'm making which is that it seems that supporters of the right wing of the Tory party appear to expect everyone to rally round a leader in "turbulent times" despite having a history of doing the polar opposite when it suits them.Sean_F said:
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?0 -
But at council ward level, there is a connection to Lough Neagh...Pulpstar said:West Belfast standing on its own there a bit like West Berlin used to !
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm0 -
The point being Cameroons good, others bad?midwinter said:
Irrelevant to the point I'm making.Sean_F said:
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?0 -
There were a number of abstentions. A majority of those who voted, voted against, 117-127ThreeQuidder said:
That's not true, is it? This says 45% against: https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2013/feb/06/gay-marriage-vote-map-mp#partyTheuniondivvie said:
Though a majority of his party voted against it, just as it did at Holyrood.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.
0 -
Not an overwhelming embrace of Norn Iron by the Republic, then....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Not at all I accept he was on the wrong side of the European argument. The sudden notion of unswerving loyalty to our beloved leader amuses me somewhat however.Mortimer said:
The point being Cameroons good, others bad?midwinter said:
Irrelevant to the point I'm making.Sean_F said:
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?0 -
Wee Davie Mundell who voted against the repeal of Clause 28 at Holyrood?Sunil_Prasannan said:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/david-mundell-slams-indy-blogger-9963256Theuniondivvie said:
Though a majority of his party voted against it, just as it did at Holyrood.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.
There's no hypocrite like one recently emerged from the closet.0 -
When what you call 'Turbulent times' is actually insulting much of their own parliamentary and activist party, it is no huge surprise....midwinter said:
Irrelevant to the point I'm making which is that it seems that supporters of the right wing of the Tory party appear to expect everyone to rally round a leader in "turbulent times" despite having a history of doing the polar opposite when it suits them.Sean_F said:
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?0 -
When my leader is loyal towards the party, I'm loyal towards them.midwinter said:
Not at all I accept he was on the wrong side of the European argument. The sudden notion of unswerving loyalty to our beloved leader amuses me somewhat however.Mortimer said:
The point being Cameroons good, others bad?midwinter said:
Irrelevant to the point I'm making.Sean_F said:
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?
When they become as good as Lib Dems whilst in office, I tend otherwise...0 -
Why are Nationalists like WingsOverScotland so homophobic?Theuniondivvie said:
Wee Davie Mundell who voted against the repeal of Clause 28 at Holyrood?Sunil_Prasannan said:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/david-mundell-slams-indy-blogger-9963256Theuniondivvie said:
Though a majority of his party voted against it, just as it did at Holyrood.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.The_Apocalypse said:
The left's 'non-conventional' means, have actually convinced voters. Today, majority of Britons support the right for a woman to have access to abortion services. A vast majority of Britons support the notion of a state funded healthcare. It is the Left's activism concerning LGBT rights which as been significant turning public opinion around on the issue.Mortimer said:
The left sneaks the odd victory through non conventional means. Meanwhile the right and centre flourish by convincing voters....The_Apocalypse said:
In your post you said 'real opposition', not 'persuading Rust Belt voters'. Those two things are not necessarily the same for a start.Mortimer said:
Look at it this way. Calm, measured opposition gains ideological traction, fundraising and pan-national support.
Marching on the coast doesn't convince the flyover states of the validity of liberal arguments.
You're a soccer mom in Iowa - say - and voted for Trump despite some reservations. Marching makes the opposition look far too liberal to attract voters next time around.
Secondly, Donald Trump was hardly 'calm, measured' during his campaign or even now - and he still won.
Furthermore, the Women's March was (generally) calm and measured. It was a peaceful protest. Many die-hard Conservatives won't see protest as peaceful and calm because it is a method of opposition that is generally disliked by them. But the Left have employed methods of protest before on issues that they care about - and have won.
Moreover, a 'Conservative' issue is not necessarily an issue which decides elections. It is likely to be issues such as the economy, healthcare, and immigration which will be significant in determining whether Rust Belt voters swing the Democrats way, as opposed to abortion.
The 'centre' contains politicians that tilt either slightly to the left or to the right - so it is not totally distinct from either the left or the right.
There's no hypocrite like one recently emerged from the closet.
0 -
Mr. Eagles, a Foster-Fillon Sunday Special?0
-
Gawd I hope not, I need a quiet Sunday.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, a Foster-Fillon Sunday Special?
0 -
Mr. Eagles, that almost guarantees it.
0 -
Arlene Foster's position looks dire to me.0
-
I think you think history started about the time of the Beatles' first LP. What opened the crack in the dam over gay rights was the Wolfenden Report, commissioned by a Churchill government. Everything since is really just footnotes to Wolfenden. And it is not the case that we have an NHS because of a lot of dweebs marching around chanting "What do we want? When do we want it? etc.The_Apocalypse said:
The notion of a state-funded healthcare is a socialist/leftist idea. William Beveridge was a liberal.Philip_Thompson said:
All parties post war supported the notion of a state funded healthcare. It was a right wing PM who legalised LGBTQ marriage.
I don't see what your point is re Cameron legalising LGBTQ. It was the Left who had been campaigning for LGBTQ rights for years while the Conservatives supported Section 28. It was not Conservatives who turned public opinion around on LGBTQ issues. If anything it was because of the turn around in public opinion that the Conservatives took on the Gay Marriage policy as a means to show that they had 'changed' and were different from how they were in the 1980s. Much of Cameron's social liberalism was in reaction to Tony Blair, and his and Labour's success in shifting the public that way during his time in office.0 -
Cameron probably thought that people who based their entire political philosophy on one issue were crazy. Hardly makes him a Lib Dem does it.Mortimer said:
When my leader is loyal towards the party, I'm loyal towards them.midwinter said:
Not at all I accept he was on the wrong side of the European argument. The sudden notion of unswerving loyalty to our beloved leader amuses me somewhat however.Mortimer said:
The point being Cameroons good, others bad?midwinter said:
Irrelevant to the point I'm making.Sean_F said:
Ministers were free to support Brexit. The vote wasn't whipped.midwinter said:
If you think the resignation of IDS was to do with anything other than Brexit I'd suggest you are slightly naive. I also believe I read here that Gove had assured Cameron his support for Leave would be far less enthusiastic than it turned out to be. As for Boris there are multiple quotes from him supporting membership of the EU prior to the referendum.Philip_Thompson said:
Who did that? Boris and Gove never resigned or broke any promises and remained cabinet ministers throughout. IDS did resign but not technically due to Brexit instead in a conflict with Osborne over benefit reforms.midwinter said:
Breaking promises and resigning in a stage managed hissy fit is hardly supporting the Leader who won your party it's first majority in years though is it? Particularly when he's given you a job which evidently far exceeds your capabilities.Mortimer said:
Tory party didn't have a position on Brexit, remember?midwinter said:
Like IDS, Boris, Gove et al?Mortimer said:
Might be worth getting behind our leader in turbulent times, no?TheScreamingEagles said:So Theresa might turn out to be a pound shop modern day David Lloyd George, overseeing the partition of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
So yeah not really supporting their leader. Or does that only apply if they're ideologically pure?
When they become as good as Lib Dems whilst in office, I tend otherwise...0 -
I'm just reading the introduction to Josephus' The Jewish War, and thought this section worth reciting:
".... of the fanaticism of rival factions and the tensions between them, of the miseries of the ordinary people caught up willy-nilly in events which they could not control ..."0 -
But one of my threads tomorrow has been written and it contains a very subtle 90s pop music reference in the headline.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, that almost guarantees it.
0 -
Mr. Eagles, is it something like "tell you what I want, I really really want"?0
-
Much more subtler than that.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, is it something like "tell you what I want, I really really want"?
0 -
Mr. Eagles, is it the lyrics to 2 Unlimited's No Limit?0
-
Essential viewing/listening for anyone who thinks 1948 Labour is even vaguely similar to the ramblings associated with Labour these days;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rqyzWzDONQ
0 -
WOW! The Donald really does have little... Hands doesn't he?TheScreamingEagles said:
0 -
YUGE!!!GIN1138 said:0 -
No, no, no, no, no, no!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, is it the lyrics to 2 Unlimited's No Limit?
0 -
You seem to have the wrong votes for DUP and SF http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/ni2017/results0
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Don't ask people what they think of an issue then be surprised when they answer. That's like asking a group of people if they want Chinese or Indian for dinner then getting angry that they said Chinese while you wanted Indian. Don't give a choice if you aren't happy with both outcomes.midwinter said:Cameron probably thought that people who based their entire political philosophy on one issue were crazy. Hardly makes him a Lib Dem does it.
0 -
As an aside, endnotes in books, rather than footnotes, are the work of Satan. Who the hell (excepting Beelzebub) thinks that it's better to have to consult the back of the book rather than have a footnote?0
-
Small sample size, Dr Prasannan. Famously, SinnFein and the ANC eventually had a pro-gay stance.Sunil_Prasannan said:Why are Nationalists like WingsOverScotland so homophobic?
0 -
DUP margin over SF was only 1,1680
