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SystemSystem Posts: 12,682
edited October 2013 in General

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  • eekeek Posts: 31,297
    So public perception (for right and wrong) is that the Tories still look after their own. Who would have thought it
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2013
    Latest McARSE 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum Projection Countdown :

    1 day 4 minutes 6 seconds
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,893
    A mixed bag. Welfare cuts and toughness on immigration are likely to be welcomed, the tax cuts are clearly the same people reversing their opinions, and the unemployed/NHS figures are also nearly a mirror image.

    In truth, the only significantly different result is the welfare cuts one. This seems to be popular amongst most people.

    A question about pensions would've been good.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    How can people seriously believe that a party which prioritised tax cuts for people leaving £2m in the teeth of a recession believe they would represent one small segment of society.

    All Daves fake rebranding was for nothing

    How can people seriously believe that a party which prioritised tax cuts leaving the first £10k tax free in the teeth of a recession believe they would represent one small segment of society.

    All "tim's" smearing is for nothing

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,065
    edited October 2013
    So the public still haven't taken Cameron and co to their hearts.

    Surprising really. Even Gerald Ratner might have expected absolution after 23 years
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,052
    Roger said:

    So the public still haven't taken Cameron and co to their hearts.

    Surprising really. Even Gerald Ratner might have expected absolution after 23 years

    For Gerald Ratner read Ed in 2036.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Roger said:

    So the public still haven't taken Cameron and co to their hearts.

    Surprising really. Even Gerald Ratner might have expected absolution after 23 years

    A crap post Roger.

  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Quelle surprise .... entirely stereotypical responses!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This is just such Pseud's Corner - after reading about @SeanT's success last night - this made made me LOL

    Jenny Colgan @jennycolgan
    Opening page of the Morrissey book. OMINOUS. RT @jackseale pic.twitter.com/Xh7Ei1oRyl
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    At the moment, the group that the Tories need to detoxify with are the UKIP switchers. The centre ground is pretty solid: there's been little slippage to the Lib Dems or Labour. In that context, the above polling will be viewed by CCHQ with less concern than if the situation was as in 1995.
  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    Many people think that welfare cuts would be more likely. This might be good news in the midland / northern marginals area.

    Bear in mind that people who live in those areas are more likely to know people who take advantage of the system.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    How can people seriously believe that a party which prioritised tax cuts for people leaving £2m in the teeth of a recession believe they would represent one small segment of society.

    All Daves fake rebranding was for nothing

    How can people seriously believe that a party which prioritised tax cuts leaving the first £10k tax free in the teeth of a recession believe they would represent one small segment of society.

    All "tim's" smearing is for nothing

    Well it's clear from the polling that they credit the Lib Dems for that, the same people who stopped Dave and George prioritising inheritance tax cuts for their own families, that's the whole point of the thread if you'd bothered to try and understand instead of posting oh so hilarious polling fantasies
    You still haven't got a handle on this Coalition governing business have you "tim".

    No matter you've still got the farm to look after and that interesting vintner sideline.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,065
    @Jack

    "A crap post"

    It's all Robin Hood in reverse stuff. (The graph)

    I don't really think that characterization is accurate or at least not obviously so which suggests it's down to the party's image which precisely dates from 1979-1990.
  • WelshJonesWelshJones Posts: 66
    The public's view of Conservatism is almost 100% correct: Cameron's concept of Conservatism is defective and merely 'heir to Blair'.

    Successive generations of UK politicians (since WW2) have squandered every penny they can obtain on buying votes through increasing Welfare benefits, rather than ensuring future prosperity through buying infrastructure.

    Beginning with Marshall Aid and continuing to the obscenity of the Brown years.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all and as a Tory I think those results will be seen positively by the sort of people likely to vote Tory who haven't done so recently. Frankly we don't give a flying fart what people who would never vote Tory under any circumstances think.

    For Roger's benefit, Gerald Ratner has been the biggest online jewellery retailer in the UK for about a decade. The source of my information was Gerald Ratner himself when he was guest speaker at a conference I was running a few years ago in Aviemore.

    That was a fascinating piece about the substance of Labour's real level of support listed among last night's Nighthawk. 32% is not so far from the alleged Tory strategy of 31%.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    That's an interesting line of attack from a fake Cheshire agriculturalist and wine merchant.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
    Lib Dems are claiming @George_Osborne is the Coalition's John Terry. FT's @BethRigby has the quote: polho.me/1etfMK6

    What is it with the LDs and the nasty personal attacks? I find it really unattractive.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,065
    edited October 2013
    @Alanbrooke

    "For Gerald Ratner read Ed in 2036."

    I'm afraid Ed's flailing at the moment. I thought he had a strategy of based around the Tories looking after the wrong people but it seems that wasn't the strategy at all. I fear in 2036 the only well known Milliband will be Ralph.

  • WelshJonesWelshJones Posts: 66
    edited October 2013
    Easterross said:

    Morning all and as a Tory I think those results will be seen positively by the sort of people likely to vote Tory who haven't done so recently. Frankly we don't give a flying fart what people who would never vote Tory under any circumstances think.

    100% correct. Which was why the Cameron Project was fundamentally flawed from the outset - it's the Little/Middle Englanders he needed to win over and he squandered that with gratuitous 'Greenery' and failed to end Carbon Dioxide-obsessed punitive taxation when in No10.

    AGW - whether 100% right, 100% wrong, or something in between, is not going to be affected one iota by whether we generate electricity 100% from coal, or 100% from 'renewables': we produce <0.2% of annual global CO2 emissions.

    The utter inconsequential effects of the UK's energy policy on Gaia's world is something no PM can seemingly accept - the UK simply doesn't matter.

    The effect of raising fuel costs by 50% (or more) by 2030, and by >100% by 2050, OTOH, matter massively: he could ensure an energy cost cut of 10-20% tomorrow by ending all 'Greenery' - a stealth tax imposed on the UK/EU by scientifically-ignorant politicians who just want an excuse to impose taxes.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Mr Ratner reinvented himself online didn't he? Something like www.diamonds... I remember looking on there and then discovering it was him.

    The funny think is that the 80s Ratner's sold some great quality stuff - my wedding/eternity ring came from there and its never bent, the claws are still perfect and the stones in place 18yrs on.
    Easterross said:

    Morning all and as a Tory I think those results will be seen positively by the sort of people likely to vote Tory who haven't done so recently. Frankly we don't give a flying fart what people who would never vote Tory under any circumstances think.

    For Roger's benefit, Gerald Ratner has been the biggest online jewellery retailer in the UK for about a decade. The source of my information was Gerald Ratner himself when he was guest speaker at a conference I was running a few years ago in Aviemore.

    That was a fascinating piece about the substance of Labour's real level of support listed among last night's Nighthawk. 32% is not so far from the alleged Tory strategy of 31%.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Roger said:

    @Jack

    "A crap post"

    It's all Robin Hood in reverse stuff. (The graph)

    I don't really think that characterization is accurate or at least not obviously so which suggests it's down to the party's image which precisely dates from 1979-1990.

    But we love a good baddy in the movies .... "Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves" - Sod off Kevin Costner. Three cheers for Alan Rickman's Sheriff of Nottingham !!

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If I look at the bar graphs then the Cons have the right result in 4 out of 6 - that aint bad.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Roger said:

    @Alanbrooke

    "For Gerald Ratner read Ed in 2036."

    I'm afraid Ed's flailing at the moment. I thought he had a strategy of based around the Tories looking after the wrong people but it seems that wasn't the strategy at all. I fear in 2036 the only well known Milliband will be Ralph.


    Ed is more Ralph Wiggum than Ralph Miliband.


  • WelshJonesWelshJones Posts: 66
    1979-1990 was the only decent period of UK governance since WW2 - and even THAT period was nothing but centre-right, when we needed 20-30 more years of genuinely right-wing government to reduce the size of the State back to an affordable (= tiny) level: one spending <33% of GDP (according to LD Ed Minister Laws, that's the maximum sustainable)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    YouGov Teachers strike :

    Net support:
    OA: -16
    Labour VI: +30
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    CarlottaVance said:

    YouGov Teachers strike :

    Net support:
    OA: -16
    Labour VI: +30

    One nation Labour - what a joke. A public sector pressure group.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,786
    david_herdson said:

    At the moment, the group that the Tories need to detoxify with are the UKIP switchers. The centre ground is pretty solid: there's been little slippage to the Lib Dems or Labour. In that context, the above polling will be viewed by CCHQ with less concern than if the situation was as in 1995.

    That's right but it's what one might call the Tory 35% strategy - they want to keep losses from 2010 to a minimum (which they have a fair chance of doing IMO) and are giving up on getting much more (which is also realistic IMO). The only way it leads to a Tory government is if the LibDems do splendidly in Con-Lab marginals.

    Welsh Owl and Easterross implicitly are relaxed about settling for 35% - people who don't agree with the basic right-wing agenda can get stuffed. That's actually a perfectly viable strategy in countries with PR, but works poorly with FPTP.

    FPT:
    Financier said:

    This morning we see from YouGov that the LDs are back to 8 again - a level they frequently found themselves about one year ago.

    However, some PBers have expectations of 15-18 in 2015. So where will the extra LD voters come from?

    Today's YouGov gives a 2010LD split of Con: 11; LAB: 38; LD:33; UKIP:12; GN:5; and Others 2: However currently 20% of the 2010LDers came under the Don't Knows.

    At the same time, this poll shows that 70% of LDVI support the current coalition whilst 26% oppose. This contrasts with 58% of ConsVI who support whilst 39% oppose.

    So, will LDs claw back supporters from LAB or UKIP or reel in the DKs? Baxtering shows quite small seat gains between 10% and 15% with larger seat gains at >15%.

    So what will the LDs have to do to bring back voters in their fold? Perhaps PBers like OGH and MarkS could advise?

    It's one of the two right questions IMO (the other even harder one is "How does Cameron persuade people who preferred Gordon Brown to him in 2010?"). But the more relevant stat is probably that of 2010 LDs, the coalition is opposed by 55-37. Of those 37, 22% (70% of 33%) are people who currently vote LibDem AND like the coalition. So there is overwhelming opposition among 2010 LDs who aren't currently among the 8% still planning to vote LD. If you look at the approval stats it's even more marked.

    Conclusion: the LibDems need to come close to ruling out a repeat of the Coalition, or accept that they aren't going to get these guys back in 2015.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Markit Economics @MarkitEconomics
    UK Sep retail sales inc fuel +0.6% m/m (RT poll: +0.4%); +2.2% y/y (RT poll: +2.1%), ex .fuel: +0.7% m/m; +2.8% y/y

    ONS @statisticsONS
    #Crime in England & Wales fell 7% in 12 months to June 2013 bit.ly/18hi2CI
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    The people ignoring Goves Madrassa will be furious with Bercow.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 8m
    Speaker has agreed Urgent Question in Commons on Al Madinah FreeSchool chaos. 10.30am. Another test for @TristramHuntMP v Gove

    What's the question - "Why is Ofsted working so effectively ?"

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,879
    Roger said:

    I'm afraid Ed's flailing at the moment. I thought he had a strategy of based around the Tories looking after the wrong people but it seems that wasn't the strategy at all. I fear in 2036 the only well known Milliband will be Ralph.

    I may need to lie down. A whole post of Roger's that seems to be on the money!

    Ed's problem when telling people the Tories are "looking after the wrong people" is that Ed just doesn't connect as "one of the right people" to deliver that approach. The North-London intelligentsia millionaire nerd subset just doesn't click with anyone.

    I have still to find anyone who has a good word to say about Ed Miliband - and that includes my chums who are Labour Party activists. The nearest parallel I can think of is if John Redwood were parachuted in as Tory leader on the back of a handful of big donors requiring it. It might fire up a handful of small-state Tories, looking forward to swingeing cuts in what government does. But most party activists would think "how the hell do I sell this guy on the doorstep?".
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    The people ignoring Goves Madrassa will be furious with Bercow.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 8m
    Speaker has agreed Urgent Question in Commons on Al Madinah FreeSchool chaos. 10.30am. Another test for @TristramHuntMP v Gove

    What's the question - "Why is Ofsted working so effectively ?"

    It took them over a year to stop Gove.
    All the decisions went across his desk


    Probably too busy writing amusingly crafted letters and chortling.
    Is this school open today or is it on strike ?



  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    " The only way it leads to a Tory government is if the LibDems do splendidly in Con-Lab marginals."

    Surely both parties must realise their best strategy is to engineer 'furious rows' about hmm January 2015.
    A planned and deliberate 'breakdown' in January 2015 or some such ;) ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,317
    @tim

    look on it as Dave being the 5-Year Nanny. For sure toddlers don't like to be told not to eat too many sweets or run into the road or juggle with bread knives but it's necessary for parents to enforce these rules nevertheless.

    It makes for a stronger relationship and a more balanced and healthier child.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    tim said:

    @DavidHerdson

    "At the moment, the group that the Tories need to detoxify with are the UKIP switchers."

    UKIP voters - Good job/bad job

    Cameron -50
    May +5

    "Northern voters have deserted the Tories because David Cameron reminds them of everything they hate about the party, a damning new analysis reveals."

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2463274/Its-grim-north-Cameron-How-Tory-brand-toxic-half-country-PM-reminds-voters-hate-party.html#ixzz2hxxBIPCs

    You'd be better off without the fake.
    And as you've posted before having Osborne as the other half of the leadership just makes it worse



    Amusing that in the Daily Mail polling, even in the North, more people think Cameron is doing well as a leader than Miliband. How bad must EdM be?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    Best joke of the day. Tim calling other people a fake.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    The people ignoring Goves Madrassa will be furious with Bercow.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 8m
    Speaker has agreed Urgent Question in Commons on Al Madinah FreeSchool chaos. 10.30am. Another test for @TristramHuntMP v Gove

    What's the question - "Why is Ofsted working so effectively ?"

    It took them over a year to stop Gove.
    All the decisions went across his desk


    Probably too busy writing amusingly crafted letters and chortling.
    Is this school open today or is it on strike ?



    I note that Tristram Hunt was whining about 400 children missing out on a week of school at the 'Tim Obsession Madrassa'.

    Has he passed any comment on the millions of pupils at 10,000 schools who are losing a day of education?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheWatcher said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    The people ignoring Goves Madrassa will be furious with Bercow.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 8m
    Speaker has agreed Urgent Question in Commons on Al Madinah FreeSchool chaos. 10.30am. Another test for @TristramHuntMP v Gove

    What's the question - "Why is Ofsted working so effectively ?"

    It took them over a year to stop Gove.
    All the decisions went across his desk


    Probably too busy writing amusingly crafted letters and chortling.
    Is this school open today or is it on strike ?



    I note that Tristram Hunt was whining about 400 children missing out on a week of school at the 'Tim Obsession Madrassa'.

    Has he passed any comment on the millions of pupils at 10,000 schools who are losing a day of education?

    Look 17% of teachers voted for this strike - how can you argue with that.

    Most aren't even on strike - they just don't confirm they are coming in, Head shuts the schools and then the teachers turn up and demand a days pay.

    They don't even have the courage of their convictions.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    The Home Office ‏@ukhomeoffice 14m
    Crime Survey for England & Wales down 7% year on year to 8.5million crimes in the 12 months to June 2013 #crimeisfalling

    Remember how the PB Kinnocks were saying crime was going to go through the roof due to cuts.

    Always wrong, all the time...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Chris Williamson @WilliamsonChris
    UK retail sales up 1.5% in Q3 => best quarter since Q1 2008 (2nd best for 9 years) pic.twitter.com/MuxbMkM15O
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheWatcher said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    The people ignoring Goves Madrassa will be furious with Bercow.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 8m
    Speaker has agreed Urgent Question in Commons on Al Madinah FreeSchool chaos. 10.30am. Another test for @TristramHuntMP v Gove

    What's the question - "Why is Ofsted working so effectively ?"

    It took them over a year to stop Gove.
    All the decisions went across his desk


    Probably too busy writing amusingly crafted letters and chortling.
    Is this school open today or is it on strike ?



    I note that Tristram Hunt was whining about 400 children missing out on a week of school at the 'Tim Obsession Madrassa'.

    Has he passed any comment on the millions of pupils at 10,000 schools who are losing a day of education?

    tim focussing on the 1% and ignoring the hard working families denied a days education for their kids by militant unions running a political strike.



  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    Financier said:



    Best joke of the day. Tim calling other people a fake.

    Cameron a fake? What's he done? Traveled first class on a train and hidden the evidence? I remember some posh millionaire's son did that once, remind me who it was?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    TGOHF said:

    TheWatcher said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    The people ignoring Goves Madrassa will be furious with Bercow.

    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 8m
    Speaker has agreed Urgent Question in Commons on Al Madinah FreeSchool chaos. 10.30am. Another test for @TristramHuntMP v Gove

    What's the question - "Why is Ofsted working so effectively ?"

    It took them over a year to stop Gove.
    All the decisions went across his desk


    Probably too busy writing amusingly crafted letters and chortling.
    Is this school open today or is it on strike ?



    I note that Tristram Hunt was whining about 400 children missing out on a week of school at the 'Tim Obsession Madrassa'.

    Has he passed any comment on the millions of pupils at 10,000 schools who are losing a day of education?

    Look 17% of teachers voted for this strike - how can you argue with that.

    Most aren't even on strike - they just don't confirm they are coming in, Head shuts the schools and then the teachers turn up and demand a days pay.

    They don't even have the courage of their convictions.
    Fake strikers?

    Farmer Tim can join them on the picket line with his tractor, and a trailer load of Chilean Merlot.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,317
    tim said:

    The pre May 2010 shroud waving Friends of the Troops will be furious again

    Brian Groom ‏@GroomB 6m
    Govt plan to part-privatise UK defence procurement close to collapse because of Serco's troubles. http://on.ft.com/GZhW8H

    Not sure the servers will handle it all

    Your memory is shorter than usual tim. Cast your mind back to Options for Change. Arguably one of the largest reorgs of HMF of recent times, scythed through regiments and all on the Cons watch.

    Cons are happier to be bold about defence spending because they, ahem, we are seen as the party of the armed forces. As Cam or one of his forebears once said in PMQ on this subject, there are more honourable members behind me with military experience than in the party opposite...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    The serious PB Tory intellects out in force today.

    Are we waiting for Financiers first ever betting post or is there another special occasion?

    You suffering from a lack of like minded sock puppets ?


  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    MarqueeMark said:

    Roger said:

    I'm afraid Ed's flailing at the moment. I thought he had a strategy of based around the Tories looking after the wrong people but it seems that wasn't the strategy at all. I fear in 2036 the only well known Milliband will be Ralph.

    I may need to lie down. A whole post of Roger's that seems to be on the money!

    Ed's problem when telling people the Tories are "looking after the wrong people" is that Ed just doesn't connect as "one of the right people" to deliver that approach. The North-London intelligentsia millionaire nerd subset just doesn't click with anyone.

    I have still to find anyone who has a good word to say about Ed Miliband - and that includes my chums who are Labour Party activists. The nearest parallel I can think of is if John Redwood were parachuted in as Tory leader on the back of a handful of big donors requiring it. It might fire up a handful of small-state Tories, looking forward to swingeing cuts in what government does. But most party activists would think "how the hell do I sell this guy on the doorstep?".
    Ed's stock is up and down like a whore's drawers this year - takes on the unions, floors Cameron with energy cap and is a superhero but the rest of the time briefed against by Very Senior Figures in the party. None of this tells us which he will be in 2015, but I am quietly confident he will buckle spectacularly in the white heat of a GE campaign. The relevant figure of speech will be less about whores' drawers and more about dockside hookers.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    tim said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    YouGov Teachers strike :

    Net support:
    OA: -16
    Labour VI: +30

    2010 LD's +9
    Why would that be a surprise when 38% of them say they will vote Labour?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    WelshJones said:

    1979-1990 was the only decent period of UK governance since WW2 - and even THAT period was nothing but centre-right, when we needed 20-30 more years of genuinely right-wing government to reduce the size of the State back to an affordable (= tiny) level: one spending <33% of GDP (according to LD Ed Minister Laws, that's the maximum sustainable)</p>

    The Tories did nothing during that period to sort out the education system. In fact they made things worse by bringing in GCSEs in 1988.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers
    Ouch RT "@Petercampbell1: Breaking: British Gas puts energy prices up by 9.2%"

    Its OK Dave put everyone on the lowest tariff.

    Not surprised - they are getting in before the cap. Sensible risk management. Thanks Ed.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    And Boris would be even more unpopular than Cameron in the North IMO.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers
    Ouch RT "@Petercampbell1: Breaking: British Gas puts energy prices up by 9.2%"

    Looks as if they're clawing in the cash on the off chance that dEdwood gets his hands on the price control lever.

    No one thought that through did they.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers
    Ouch RT "@Petercampbell1: Breaking: British Gas puts energy prices up by 9.2%"

    Its OK Dave put everyone on the lowest tariff.

    Not surprised - they are getting in before the cap. Sensible risk management. Thanks Ed.
    They've priced in a Labour election win?




    As Labour are favourites to win "most seats" in the betfair market that would seem a reasonable assessment.

    Not quite as "nailed on majority" as you are predicting tim but still clear favourites - as the current polls suggest.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers
    Ouch RT "@Petercampbell1: Breaking: British Gas puts energy prices up by 9.2%"

    Its OK Dave put everyone on the lowest tariff.

    Not surprised - they are getting in before the cap. Sensible risk management. Thanks Ed.

    When The Watcher is posting the same as you you know there's no way but up.
    11,463 < Clever.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @journodave: Another staggering rise in energy prices, British Gas puts electricity up by 10.4% and 8.4% for gas.

    < Another EdM win, err
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    TOPPING said:

    Cons are happier to be bold about defence spending because they, ahem, we are seen as the party of the armed forces.

    Weren't they/you also once seen as the party of the police?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Thatcher's great failures were on education and tax policy.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers
    Ouch RT "@Petercampbell1: Breaking: British Gas puts energy prices up by 9.2%"

    Its OK Dave put everyone on the lowest tariff.

    Not surprised - they are getting in before the cap. Sensible risk management. Thanks Ed.
    They've priced in a Labour election win?




    As Labour are favourites to win "most seats" in the betfair market that would seem a reasonable assessment.

    Not quite as "nailed on majority" as you are predicting tim but still clear favourites - as the current polls suggest.
    I'm just a little surprised that posters on a politics site wouldn't know that these rises have been in the pipeline for more than a month.
    But these are PB Tories, always wrong, never learn.
    Sensitive price information has been common knowledge for months ? You should call the competition commission ! Perhaps a look back at why there are so few players in this market - who allowed that to happen ?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    AndyJS said:

    Thatcher's great failures were on education and tax policy.


    Crime skyrocketed
    Benefit dependency trebled
    Those are the kinds of problems whose seeds are sown a generation earlier IMO. Would you dispute that?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,317
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cons are happier to be bold about defence spending because they, ahem, we are seen as the party of the armed forces.

    Weren't they/you also once seen as the party of the police?

    Yep Laura Norder was our friend.

    Then for some reason she turned on us.

    Perhaps when we tried to head off the wilder excesses and give people elected representatives was one turning point among many.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    Plato said:

    RT @journodave: Another staggering rise in energy prices, British Gas puts electricity up by 10.4% and 8.4% for gas.

    < Another EdM win, err

    Interesting info on Newsnight last night that energy prices in Germany are about twice as much as in the UK. Maybe we shouldn't complain too much.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Ed Conway @EdConwaySky
    Here's how energy bills have increased (vs CPI inflation) since 2005. We're about to have another of those big jumps pic.twitter.com/FBDOtaUBMB
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    Can someone stick the wholesale price of gas on that graph ?
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    tim said:

    Crime skyrocketed

    It is true that the trend of rising crime which began after the war continued under Mrs Thatcher's government. That trend came to an end during the later stages of Michael Howard's tenure as Secretary of State, and the fall in crime continued under Labour. Perhaps the tougher stance of the Howard/Straw/Blunkett years was responsible, or more likely, the policies of the government of the day have very little impact on the rate of crime.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A few decades ago the maximum Tory vote was about 45%. Today it's about 40%. I don't know what all this fuss about detoxification is all about. If the Tories were hoping they could change the fact that 60% can't stand them they were always wasting their time IMO.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    A certain Kinnockette was making a similar claim yesterday..

    http://order-order.com/2013/10/17/eoin-clarke-is-an-idiot-part-94/

    "According to the Office of National Statistics in May 2010 UK unemployment increased to 2.51 million or a rate of 8%.

    According to the Office of National Statistics in a release yesterday in August 2013 UK unemployment decreased to 2.49 million and the unemployment rate dropped to 7.7%

    Éoin Clarke is an idiot…"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    AndyJS said:

    Plato said:

    RT @journodave: Another staggering rise in energy prices, British Gas puts electricity up by 10.4% and 8.4% for gas.

    < Another EdM win, err

    Interesting info on Newsnight last night that energy prices in Germany are about twice as much as in the UK. Maybe we shouldn't complain too much.
    That's what their ridiculous obsession with all things green will get you.

    Fire up the open cast coal mines I say.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    LD voice have made an interesting discovery

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-labour-party-plebgate-website-they-no-longer-want-you-to-see-36756.html

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    TOPPING said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cons are happier to be bold about defence spending because they, ahem, we are seen as the party of the armed forces.

    Weren't they/you also once seen as the party of the police?

    Yep Laura Norder was our friend.

    Then for some reason she turned on us.

    Perhaps when we tried to head off the wilder excesses and give people elected representatives was one turning point among many.
    Of course you were also (in your Unionist manifestation) once the party of Scotland. Nothing lasts forever!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Public violently opposed pretty OK with what Osborne's been up to in China:

    More or fewer Chinese visitors?
    More: 37
    Fewer: 9
    Same: 35

    (UKIP: 45/11/30)

    Where should UK look to for trade:
    China: 53
    Europe: 35
    Aus/NZ: 34
    N. Amer: 33

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/17szpjnvxz/YG-Archive-tourists-and-trading-results-161013.pdf

    Laws replying to The Hon Tristram Hunt as Gove is abroad....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,893
    The rising energy costs would've largely occurred anyway, but the firms will clearly be thinking ahead to Red Ed's price freeze. However, the public will feel their wallets being lightened once again by the companies, which, perversely, will make the price freeze seem more attractive.

    In pure party politics, it's a clever move. In terms of being sensible for the country, it's bloody stupid. It's also deeply concerning that Red Ed's prior experience was as the minister for energy, yet he either has no idea how the industry works (in which case he's a cretin) or he does but is willing to bugger it up to try and get into power (in which case he's Gordon Brown II).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cons are happier to be bold about defence spending because they, ahem, we are seen as the party of the armed forces.

    Weren't they/you also once seen as the party of the police?

    Yep Laura Norder was our friend.

    Then for some reason she turned on us.

    Perhaps when we tried to head off the wilder excesses and give people elected representatives was one turning point among many.
    Of course you were also (in your Unionist manifestation) once the party of Scotland. Nothing lasts forever!
    Nothing lasts forever?

    Clearly you've never heard about the DFS sale?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Vincenzo Scarpetta ‏@LondonerVince 2m

    New CSA poll: 46% of French think Marine Le Pen is "best challenger" to President #Hollande. #UMP's Fillon (18%) and Copé (13%) well behind.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,893
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), whilst Hollande appears to be considered merde by almost everyone, surely there's no real prospect of Le Pen becoming president? [Incidentally, wasn't she arrested after the EU retroactively altered the rules on protected free speech for MEPs?]
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    edited October 2013
    This is going to turn into a rant.

    But what the eff are The Times playing at.

    They commissioned a 2,000 voter strong poll, and all the coverage they gave it is a paragraph in Tim Montgomerie's column today.

    An 8 strong focus group showing Ed is crap gets two pages of coverage
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,539
    tim said:

    PB Tories silent on this?

    Nigel Farage ‏@Nigel_Farage 1m
    The coalitions's Defence and Security review will be remembered in history for being an utter disaster. Scrapping... http://fb.me/23rQ10P85

    Letting Osborne do the defence review in 2010 was a joke, as even some Tories on here pointed out at the time.
    Gift to UKIP.

    A principal reason why I switched to UKIP.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    TheScreamingEagles said:



    Nothing lasts forever?

    Clearly you've never heard about the DFS sale?

    Very true, along with, appositely, English footie commentators' obsession with 1966. It might even be a relief if 2014 took over.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    edited October 2013
    CarlottaVance said:

    Public violently opposed pretty OK with what Osborne's been up to in China:

    More or fewer Chinese visitors?
    More: 37
    Fewer: 9
    Same: 35

    (UKIP: 45/11/30)

    Where should UK look to for trade:
    China: 53
    Europe: 35
    Aus/NZ: 34
    N. Amer: 33

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/17szpjnvxz/YG-Archive-tourists-and-trading-results-161013.pdf

    Laws replying to The Hon Tristram Hunt as Gove is abroad....

    I was discussing why the Chinese don't seem to have problms integrating with some of my ethnically Chinese friends at the weekend. I think religion has some part to play, or rather the lack of it in that most Chinese are either atheist or vaguely Christian - similar to UK 'natives'. They've never caused much trouble really either, and tend to be hard working & intelligent types... That is the perception anyway.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,539
    JackW said:

    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    That's an interesting line of attack from a fake Cheshire agriculturalist and wine merchant.

    The Conservatives' Northern problems are specifically problems in Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, and Newcastle. Outside those four cities, they enjoy substantial support.

  • Max_EdinburghMax_Edinburgh Posts: 347
    TGOHF said:

    A certain Kinnockette was making a similar claim yesterday..

    http://order-order.com/2013/10/17/eoin-clarke-is-an-idiot-part-94/

    "According to the Office of National Statistics in May 2010 UK unemployment increased to 2.51 million or a rate of 8%.

    According to the Office of National Statistics in a release yesterday in August 2013 UK unemployment decreased to 2.49 million and the unemployment rate dropped to 7.7%

    Éoin Clarke is an idiot…"

    Fortunatley the 'recovery deniers' seem to be an ever dwindling band. Surely one day even they will have stop talking Britain down!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), whilst Hollande appears to be considered merde by almost everyone, surely there's no real prospect of Le Pen becoming president? [Incidentally, wasn't she arrested after the EU retroactively altered the rules on protected free speech for MEPs?]

    I guess progress for MLP would be to reach the final two.

    But interesting that a Eurosceptic in France is becoming popular..
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:



    Nothing lasts forever?

    Clearly you've never heard about the DFS sale?

    Very true, along with, appositely, English footie commentators' obsession with 1966. It might even be a relief if 2014 took over.
    England winning next year has to be worth at least 10% to the yes side.

    Christ, Clive Tyldsley commentating on England winning the world cup might be worth 15%.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,893
    Mr. Pulpstar, of the (admittedly few) Chinese immgrants' children I've met, they've been model cicitzens. They study and work hard, integrate well and even take English first names.

    On religion, I saw a piece a year or two ago about Protestantism becoming a little more popular in CHina, and the authorities being relaxed about it because they like the work ethic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    On the day tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of children are missing school because of a Teacher's strike, not sure the honourable Tristram Hunt was wise to focus on '400 children missing school for a week'.......Laws gave him a deserved smacking......
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    That's an interesting line of attack from a fake Cheshire agriculturalist and wine merchant.

    The Conservatives' Northern problems are specifically problems in Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, and Newcastle. Outside those four cities, they enjoy substantial support.

    Indeed so, and not just in rural seats. Many important marginals find themselves in the suburbs and towns of the north.

  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited October 2013
    Lots of action on the Dunfermline market today, with only one week til polling day:

    - Hills, PP and Coral all shorten their LAB prices

    - Ladbrokes suspend their John Black (IND) price

    Anyone know why Shadsy might suspend that price? It was 100/1 before the suspension.

    Best prices - Dunfermline by-election

    Lab 1/3 (BetVictor, Betway)
    SNP 3/1 (Hills)
    LD 89/1 (Betfair)
    Ind 100/1 (Betway, Coral)
    Grn 125/1
    UKIP 125/1
    Con 200/1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,165
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:



    Nothing lasts forever?

    Clearly you've never heard about the DFS sale?

    Very true, along with, appositely, English footie commentators' obsession with 1966. It might even be a relief if 2014 took over.
    England winning next year has to be worth at least 10% to the yes side.

    Christ, Clive Tyldsley commentating on England winning the world cup might be worth 15%.
    The upcoming White Paper contains a guarantee that we'll beat the World Cup holders at Wembley in 2015.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    edited October 2013
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    That's an interesting line of attack from a fake Cheshire agriculturalist and wine merchant.

    The Conservatives' Northern problems are specifically problems in Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, and Newcastle. Outside those four cities, they enjoy substantial support.


    I left Sheffield in 1997 and Sheffield Hallam went LD.

    My return to Sheffield will herald a return to Sheffield being a Tory city* in 2015

    *only if you count Sheffield Hallam and ignore all the other Sheffield seats.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Laws batting away Hunt's criticism with ease.

    Not too sure this Emergency Question was a wise one from Labour - confusion all round.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,317
    edited October 2013
    From the BBC Website:

    "However Piara Powar, executive director of Fare (Football Against Racism in Europe), told the BBC: "This was a silly phrase to use in a diverse workforce. One assumes it wasn't Freudian - there is no evidence to suggest it was.""

    bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24563131

    what evidence, I wonder, would Piara require for him to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that it _was_ Freudian?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    On topic, decontamination was going pretty well until about a year into the parliament, then they threw is away with top-rage tax cuts and a lot of little right-wing populist gestures. Arguably that was the right move considering the way they've been bleeding support to UKIP, but it's hard to make the transition without the voters thinking you're full of shit. They should have either stuck at it consistently and hoped the kippers would come home of their own accord or ditched Cameron and switched him out for someone who could sell the pivot.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I've clearly missed quite a story here

    Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes
    A lot of support from Labour MPs for @GloriaDePieroMP's desire to suppress topless photos on the grounds that it was before she was an MP.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    That's an interesting line of attack from a fake Cheshire agriculturalist and wine merchant.

    The Conservatives' Northern problems are specifically problems in Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, and Newcastle. Outside those four cities, they enjoy substantial support.


    I left Sheffield in 1997 and Sheffield Hallam went LD.

    My return to Sheffield will herald a return to Sheffield being a Tory city* in 2015

    *only if you count Sheffield Hallam and ignore all the other Sheffield seats.
    Are you predicting a Conservative gain in Sheffield Hallam ?!?

    Very brave indeed.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,100
    Stuart_Dickson said:

    Lots of action on the Dunfermline market today, with only one week til polling day:

    - Hills, PP and Coral all shorten their LAB prices

    - Ladbrokes suspend their John Black (IND) price

    Anyone know why Shadsy might suspend that price? It was 100/1 before the suspension.

    Best prices - Dunfermline by-election

    Lab 1/3 (BetVictor, Betway)
    SNP 3/1 (Hills)
    LD 89/1 (Betfair)
    Ind 100/1 (Betway, Coral)
    Grn 125/1
    UKIP 125/1
    Con 200/1

    Wheres the value ? Laying the Lib Dems is buying money ? Not sure I have the bank to do that :/
  • isamisam Posts: 42,608
    TOPPING said:

    From the BBC Website:

    "However Piara Powar, executive director of Fare (Football Against Racism in Europe), told the BBC: "This was a silly phrase to use in a diverse workforce.
    "One assumes it wasn't Freudian - there is no evidence to suggest it was.""

    bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24563131

    what evidence, I wonder, would Piara require for him to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that it _was_ Freudian?


    Piara "double standards" Powar?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/pick-england-team/9891382/Paul-Elliotts-offensive-text-to-former-player-was-not-racist-claims-anti-racism-campaigner-Piara-Powar.html


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098325/Boss-footballs-anti-racism-group-branded-racist-calling-Asian-fan-coconut.html


    This man has the potential to cause race wars with his hypocrisy
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Can't see the problem with that poll. It looks bang on the money to me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    edited October 2013
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:



    Nothing lasts forever?

    Clearly you've never heard about the DFS sale?

    Very true, along with, appositely, English footie commentators' obsession with 1966. It might even be a relief if 2014 took over.
    England winning next year has to be worth at least 10% to the yes side.

    Christ, Clive Tyldsley commentating on England winning the world cup might be worth 15%.
    The upcoming White Paper contains a guarantee that we'll beat the World Cup holders at Wembley in 2015.

    Like you did in 1967 to become Unofficial World Champions?

    Still this has to be Scotland's best moment in a world cup?

    (Don't worry it's not the Trainspotting version)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJTBrbPIHQ
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    JackW said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    More of the same

    @MattChorley: It's grim up north for Cameron: How PM reminds northern voters why they hate the Tories http://t.co/uoxohbS0zT

    The root cause of that is Cameron is seen as a fake, he'd have been better off, instead of humiliating himself with a load of fake photo stunts over a decade saying "yes I'm Tory scum, but I'll be competent Tory scum"

    As it is people just think he's a Typical Tory, but a chinless fake one.

    That's an interesting line of attack from a fake Cheshire agriculturalist and wine merchant.

    The Conservatives' Northern problems are specifically problems in Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, and Newcastle. Outside those four cities, they enjoy substantial support.


    I left Sheffield in 1997 and Sheffield Hallam went LD.

    My return to Sheffield will herald a return to Sheffield being a Tory city* in 2015

    *only if you count Sheffield Hallam and ignore all the other Sheffield seats.
    Are you predicting a Conservative gain in Sheffield Hallam ?!?

    Very brave indeed.

    God no.

    Clegg is going to win.

    The more interesting aspect is will Labour finish second and push the Tories into third.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,760
    Talking about Trainspotting, I watched Filth the other week.

    Loved it.

    Irving Welsh and James McAvoy are utter geniuses.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Well done to the government for the Commission on Social Mobility. Well done to Alan Milburn for leading it. Sounds like the report is a top class piece of work. Hopefully, what it says will be taken seriously by all sides. It really is the defining issue of this post-crash era.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    AndyJS said:

    A few decades ago the maximum Tory vote was about 45%. Today it's about 40%. I don't know what all this fuss about detoxification is all about. If the Tories were hoping they could change the fact that 60% can't stand them they were always wasting their time IMO.

    The amazing thing is why so many support Labour. They must believe in the money tree - is it a new religion?

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    35 minutes for an Emergency Question and Labour benches ran out of questioners.

    Poor start from Hunt in the Commons unlike his solid TV performances on Sunday. Oh dear.
This discussion has been closed.

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