politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov’s BREXIT tracker is back to exactly where it was just a
Comments
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Errrr... But you could say the same about the UK. As in, there are beers that are only drank in parts of Scotland, etc.David_Evershed said:
The EU is not a single market, it is a series of national markets - look at market shares of companies in each country.
And your local corner store has a 0% market share in Cornwall or Wales.
There many ways the EU is not a Single Market. But differential local market shares is not evidence of that.0 -
The Business Select Committee said that Kraft should not have said it would keep Cadbury's Somerdale factory open – only to renege on the pledge after the bid. "A company of Kraft's size and experience ought to have acted with better judgement," the MPs said.David_Evershed said:Surely UK politicians will not allow KRAFT to take over Unilever after KRAFT failed to live up to its commitments on the Cadbury take over?
Cadbury factory closure by Kraft 'despicable'
Business Secretary Lord Mandelson said Kraft's global chief executive, Irene Rosenfeld, had not given specific commitments on jobs when they met last week, but said she should have made the position clear.
"A week ago she would have known what announcement would be made, barely six days later.
"It would have been more honest if it had been more straight forward and straight dealing with the company and the workforce and also with the government if she had told me what their intentions were."
See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8507780.stm
See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/cbry/8531542/Kraft-acted-irresponsibly-in-Cadbury-takeover-say-MPs.html0 -
'Intolereance'?CarlottaVance said:Are 'the Left' creating more Conservatives?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/17/student-lefts-culture-intolereance-creating-new-generation-ofconservatives/
The Telegraph's worse than the Guardian nowadays.0 -
I just cringe 1996 Cool BritanniaDavidL said:
Oh that last sentence stings.PlatoSaid said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236504/QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-breathless-Tony-Blair-mission.html
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaJETvp_YL40 -
"Unilever needs to accelerate and intensify its own cost-cutting programme, but the Kraft Heinz model is far too extreme and – strictly speaking – unsustainable: it’s all about leveraging up, slashing costs, moving on to another target, leveraging up again and so on."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/17/unileverwas-right-reject-kraft-heinz-bid/0 -
Mr Essexit,
"RobD hit the nail on the head yesterday - Blair is focusing on his own ego, as always."
Fair enough.
Blair, Trump, politicians, they'll all the same.0 -
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
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The American Revolution was in part fueled by anti-catholic resentment at the lack of punitive and punishing laws against Catholics when Britain gained ownership of QuebecSean_F said:
Some people emigrated to the US in search of tolerance. Others emigrated because they wanted to create a different form of theocracy to the one that was persecuting them at home. Suppressing dissent is very much in line with US history in some States.The_Apocalypse said:
Clinton is very hawkish re foreign policy. I wouldn't place her as a LD, personally. Perhaps on the very right of the Labour party. If you took away the identity politics, Hillary could even be a moderate in the Conservative Party (now I'm interested in the response I'll get for saying that). I have relatives in New York and Florida, so those are the only two places in America I've actually been to and know a bit about.AlsoIndigo said:
Not only that but the centre ground of US voters is some way to the right of the centre ground of UK voters. Hillary Clinton is probably about the same place as Nick Clegg but with extra identity politics, almost all republicans are some way to the right of the centre of the Tory party.The_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
In contemporary USA 28% of the public thinks homosexuality should be unlawful. We see the liberal coastal bits over here mostly, the TV and Arts output from New York and California, there is a whole vast area of deep conservatism between the two.
I am also flabbergasted that as many as 28% of Americans believe that about homosexuality. I understand that some are passionately religious, but freedom of religion doesn't mean the right to impose religious beliefs on others.0 -
If only the luvvies knew how sour it'd all go in seven years...PlatoSaid said:
I just cringe 1996 Cool BritanniaDavidL said:
Oh that last sentence stings.PlatoSaid said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236504/QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-breathless-Tony-Blair-mission.html
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaJETvp_YL40 -
Quite a lot of people define themselves in relation to their mainstream, so Clinton seems more conservative than say Gordon Brown and Sanders seems less left-wing than Corbyn, but I think the underlying attitudes are actually similar - people take the mainstream and then think "I'm going to be a bit/a lot more liberal/conservative than that". That's why the Clintons and Blair found each other extremely congenial (probably still do).AlsoIndigo said:
Not only that but the centre ground of US voters is some way to the right of the centre ground of UK voters. Hillary Clinton is probably about the same place as Nick Clegg but with extra identity politics, almost all republicans are some way to the right of the centre of the Tory party.The_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
In contemporary USA 28% of the public thinks homosexuality should be unlawful. We see the liberal coastal bits over here mostly, the TV and Arts output from New York and California, there is a whole vast area of deep conservatism between the two.
People who start by looking at each issue and only later develop a feeling that their assessments of these mean they are mostly left or right are relatively rare. The instinctive value judgment comes first.0 -
What does gay rights mean nowadays? I am not gay but don't feel as if I somehow have more rights than the people opposite who are. Where is the discrimination?The_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
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Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.0
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Osborne was socially moderate, economically he certainly was not and indeed he was applauded at a GOP dinner for his austerity and tax cutting policies when the Tea Party was at its height. Economically if anything May is more moderate than Cameron and Osborne even if she has moved closer to the Trump GOP on issues like immigration. None of the Labour moderates you mention are even in the Shadow Cabinet nor do they represent much beyond a third of the current Labour membership which re elected Corbyn by over 60% just 5 months ago. The fact that you would be hard placed to find even a Brownite beyond Tom Watson in the senior ranks of Labour now shows you just how far Labour has moved leftThe_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
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Is it? One of the most important politicians in UK history makes a big comeback speech, comprehensively covered by all the news outlets, explicitly trying to derail the vote of which we talk about non stop here.. I would be amazed if he wasn't being discussed a month laterJonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
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Mr. Isam, the only area that leaps to mind is perhaps (although this could instead/also be anti-male) the way that the police are said to have utterly failed to handle a serial killer investigation, the perpetrator preying on gay men.
The suggestion is that had the victims been female, the case would've been handled rather better and the fourth victim would still be alive.0 -
I have now lived long enough to understand that things do genuinely move in cycles. I remember in the 1980s thinking that there was no way on earth that the Tories would ever lose power. The economy was booming in many parts of the country, Labour was tearing itself apart. Thatcher dominated everything. Then things started to slip away - she began to lose her grasp of reality, the Tories started arguing and Labour got itself together. Then everything that had happened in the 80s began to happen the other way round. And then that all changed. Currently, the right is clearly in the ascendant, so it is no surprise the centre ground has moved rightwards. At some stage, though, it will start to go the other way. As for Labour, the signs are everywhere that the far left is now beginning to tear itself apart - that is what the far left always does. This will accelerate and at some point, probably sooner than you expect, the soft and moderate left will find itself back in control.The_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That'sabout him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
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Old Holborn
Just 894 migrants have been returned to Turkey under the €7,000,000,000 EU deal.
€7.8M for each migrant returned
https://t.co/2M2D2kTobK
According to Stern0 -
Which ones? His speech began like this:GIN1138 said:
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
The whole thing is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/
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The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
Found this quite interesting, a little article about China and North Korea:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-390006810 -
The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/0 -
I will exempt a few politicians from my general contempt. Those, always on the back bench who beaver away at a single or a few subjects and get to know about it fully. It's a recipe for an obscure career.
Frank Field for one. Even Nick P of this parish who has a thing about animal welfare. I regard animals as being divided into two categories ... edible and non-edible ... but I can understand other's concerns.
But the successful ones are almost always egotists with a sense of their own infallibility.
Trump is another but he gets more vitriol because he's less clever at concealing it.0 -
Its does, and 37% of Americans (same survey) think that is wrong.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
Another major element was the resentment by Americans of having to pay for their defence by the British Army and Navy. They thought that they should be able to freeload.Alistair said:
The American Revolution was in part fueled by anti-catholic resentment at the lack of punitive and punishing laws against Catholics when Britain gained ownership of QuebecSean_F said:
Some people emigrated to the US in search of tolerance. Others emigrated because they wanted to create a different form of theocracy to the one that was persecuting them at home. Suppressing dissent is very much in line with US history in some States.The_Apocalypse said:
Clinton is very hawkish re foreign policy. I wouldn't place her as a LD, personally. Perhaps on the very right of the Labour party. If you took away the identity politics, Hillary could even be a moderate in the Conservative Party (now I'm interested in the response I'll get for saying that). I have relatives in New York and Florida, so those are the only two places in America I've actually been to and know a bit about.AlsoIndigo said:
Not only that but the centre ground of US voters is some way to the right of the centre ground of UK voters. Hillary Clinton is probably about the same place as Nick Clegg but with extra identity politics, almost all republicans are some way to the right of the centre of the Tory party.The_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
In contemporary USA 28% of the public thinks homosexuality should be unlawful. We see the liberal coastal bits over here mostly, the TV and Arts output from New York and California, there is a whole vast area of deep conservatism between the two.
I am also flabbergasted that as many as 28% of Americans believe that about homosexuality. I understand that some are passionately religious, but freedom of religion doesn't mean the right to impose religious beliefs on others.0 -
In control of what, though? How much will the Labour brand have been "Ratnerised" by then? And for the Labour centrists to move on, they have to a manifesto that appeals to voters. At the core of that has to be an acceptance that the public sector they would want to have is never going to be affordable.SouthamObserver said:
I have now lived long enough to understand that things do genuinely move in cycles. I remember in the 1980s thinking that there was no way on earth that the Tories would ever lose power. The economy was booming in many parts of the country, Labour was tearing itself apart. Thatcher dominated everything. Then things started to slip away - she began to lose her grasp of reality, the Tories started arguing and Labour got itself together. Then everything that had happened in the 80s began to happen the other way round. And then that all changed. Currently, the right is clearly in the ascendant, so it is no surprise the centre ground has moved rightwards. At some stage, though, it will start to go the other way. As for Labour, the signs are everywhere that the far left is now beginning to tear itself apart - that is what the far left always does. This will accelerate and at some point, probably sooner than you expect, the soft and moderate left will find itself back in control.
The smartest move May could make would be to offer an all party Royal Commission on the future of the NHS and care. All parties would be able to make appointments to that Commission. That would force Labour to acknowledge the limitations of what they could ever achieve in the public sector, neutralise the NHS as a political football - and leave the Tories to get to work on the soft underbelly of Labour economic policy (or lack of it).0 -
Yes that's fair, but I think the UK would be relatively well placed to weather any storm wrt to a Russian invasion. Mostly by virtue of not being on the continent.rcs1000 said:
I would expect Global Aggregate Demand would decline following an invasion of eastern Europe by Russia. We would do relatively, rather than absolutely, well.0 -
By "folk" do you mean "political obsessives who are on a political website talking about a political speech by a famous politician"?Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
Those sort of "folk"?
My yardstick for something reaching public consciousness is if I hear it talked about in the pub.0 -
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
So 63% of Americans are not opposed to gay marriage, even in the UK 37% were opposed to gay marriage in a 2013 pollAlsoIndigo said:
Its does, and 37% of Americans (same survey) think that is wrong.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/20/voters-back-same-sex-marriage/0 -
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
There appears to very little evidence for the author's assertion. In regard to college membership for Conservative associations spiking up, the author essentially provides only one example out of all of America. The author also appears to conflate 'Speakeasy', with conservatism. I know plenty of individuals with pretty non-PC views would never vote Conservative even if their life depended on it. Re his point on Student Unions - Student Unions are by and large utterly irrelevant.CarlottaVance said:Are 'the Left' creating more Conservatives?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/17/student-lefts-culture-intolereance-creating-new-generation-ofconservatives/
Furthermore, in regard to the Glid poll he cites, there is an array poll which suggests that young people overall have quite liberal-left, and not Conservative attitudes:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/21/immigration-lowest-priority-young-people-brexit-poll
We even have findings like this now (which don't reflect my views btw) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/26/a-majority-of-millennials-now-reject-capitalism-poll-shows/?utm_term=.f408449b7822
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-10
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/07/news/la-pn-millennials-liberal-views-pew-poll-20140306
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/08/06/poll-young-adults-strongly-support-gun-control/
https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2016/09/08/poll-support-for-black-lives-matter-now-majority-view-among-young-adults/0 -
Ellison is in the running - its Labour with knobs on for DNC chair.rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02uhSjrkcDM&t=838s
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He doesn't do the thumb point. That forgives Iraq in my opinion.GIN1138 said:
If only the luvvies knew how sour it'd all go in seven years...PlatoSaid said:
I just cringe 1996 Cool BritanniaDavidL said:
Oh that last sentence stings.PlatoSaid said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236504/QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-breathless-Tony-Blair-mission.html
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaJETvp_YL40 -
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
If it can't be endlessly talked about and picked apart on here, a site that is one of the premier sources of political information in the country, when can it?SouthamObserver said:
Which ones? His speech began like this:GIN1138 said:
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
The whole thing is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/
Outside in the real world, I've heard it talked about, but mostly in the "Blair only does stuff that benefits Blair" sort of comments. He's too tainted for most of the country to take him seriously, even though his speech wasn't really anything earth shattering.0 -
I don't think saying that someone supports gay rights implies that you think there is a lot of legal discrimination against those who are gay. Although like you, I'm not gay myself, and I'm by no means an expert on gay rights, so I can't say definitely that there is no legal discrimination whatsoever anymore. Are there any PBers from the LBGTQ community who can offer their views/experiences on this?isam said:
What does gay rights mean nowadays? I am not gay but don't feel as if I somehow have more rights than the people opposite who are. Where is the discrimination?The_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
0 -
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriageGeoffM said:
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
And then he went on for the next half an hour about why the voters wishes should be ignored...SouthamObserver said:
Which ones? His speech began like this:GIN1138 said:
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
The whole thing is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/0 -
@rottenborough Biden is WAY too old. The Biden train is over and done. I agree though, as much as I love her, that Warren is not the best candidate to go up against Trump (if he's even still running on the GOP ticket come 2020). Neither is Ellison, although I don't know why he is being mentioned with some frequency on here. Sanders, Warren, Harris, and Brooker have been getting far more attention than him recently. Even Inslee.0
-
Further to discussion on PB about robots the other day:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-robots-lawmaking-idUSKBN15V2KM0 -
More of that Milo interview - someone loses the plot entirely - and has no argument
https://youtu.be/3cDLflyQ8TA0 -
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?HYUFD said:
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriageGeoffM said:
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.0 -
I watched the whole thing on Breitbart before I came to PB today ... it's brilliant.PlatoSaid said:More of that Milo interview - someone loses the plot entirely - and has no argument
https://youtu.be/3cDLflyQ8TA0 -
The last thing the US needs is Michelle Obama as President.David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.0 -
Where does he say that?GIN1138 said:
And then he went on for the next half an hour about why the voters wishes should be ignored...SouthamObserver said:
Which ones? His speech began like this:GIN1138 said:
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
The whole thing is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/
0 -
Sentiment, not realism.rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
-
somebody had £20 at 16.OldKingCole said:
Sentiment, not realism.rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
PlatoSaid said:
Old Holborn
Just 894 migrants have been returned to Turkey under the €7,000,000,000 EU deal.
€7.8M for each migrant returned
https://t.co/2M2D2kTobK
According to Stern
But that the arrangement exists seems to have dramatically reduced the flow of migrants from Turkey to Greece.
0 -
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.0 -
I have read the speech and agree with almost all of it. I cannot see where he urges the wishes of voters to be ignored or calls for us to stay in the EU without their consent. What he says makes a lot of sense to me - though my focus would be on getting the softest possible Brexit rather than seeking to stay inside the EU. But it will be dismissed because Blair made it. That is a shame but unfortunately he is damaged goods. What the speech highlighted more than anything is the lack of anyone of substance and appeal to make the points that Blair made. As he says, the Labour party has gone missing completely.TwistedFireStopper said:
If it can't be endlessly talked about and picked apart on here, a site that is one of the premier sources of political information in the country, when can it?SouthamObserver said:
Which ones? His speech began like this:GIN1138 said:
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
The whole thing is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/
Outside in the real world, I've heard it talked about, but mostly in the "Blair only does stuff that benefits Blair" sort of comments. He's too tainted for most of the country to take him seriously, even though his speech wasn't really anything earth shattering.
0 -
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.0 -
And? Those people are utterly vile.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.0 -
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
Seems a strange thing to google, but each to their own.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.0 -
From: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/books/review/listen-liberal-and-the-limousine-liberal.htmlrottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
"Fraser agrees with Frank that the Democratic Party can no longer reasonably claim to be the party of the working class or the “little man.” Instead, he argues, the Republican and Democratic parties now represent two different elite constituencies, each with its own culture and interests and modes of thought. Fraser describes today’s Republicans as the party of “family capitalism,” encompassing everyone from the mom-and-pop business owner on up to “entrepreneurial maestros” such as the Koch brothers, Linda McMahon and Donald Trump. The Democrats, by contrast, represent the managerial world spawned by modernity, including the big universities and government bureaucracies as well as “techno frontiersmen” like Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates. These are two different ways of relating to the world — one cosmopolitan and interconnected, the other patriarchal and hierarchical. Neither one, however, offers much to working-class voters."
Class based politics is the way back for the Democrats, as it is for Labour here.0 -
I can't imagine any circumstances that a sane person would want to Google that.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.0 -
Please no, not EllisonPlatoSaid said:
Ellison is in the running - its Labour with knobs on for DNC chair.rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02uhSjrkcDM&t=838s0 -
Cameron was elected as an MP in 2001 and failed to support gay adoption in 2002, there was no vote on gay marriage until 2013GeoffM said:
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?HYUFD said:
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriageGeoffM said:
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo020516/debtext/20516-32.htm#20516-32_div2440 -
Mr. Floater/Miss Plato, is Ellison the one who wanted white people to shut up?0
-
It would been a novel outlook that voted to retain Section 28 while backing gay marriage.GeoffM said:
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?HYUFD said:
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriageGeoffM said:
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.0 -
A couple of us talked about it at work yesterday.GeoffM said:
By "folk" do you mean "political obsessives who are on a political website talking about a political speech by a famous politician"?Jonathan said:Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
Those sort of "folk"?
My yardstick for something reaching public consciousness is if I hear it talked about in the pub.
Nothing positive for Blair in anything that was said.
0 -
Paul Joseph Watson
This is what the establishment left really thinks about minorities. https://t.co/d7CveIRy0i0 -
Depends on Trump's approval ratings, if they fall below 40% even a majority of white voters will have turned on himSouthamObserver said:
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
So Michelle would have the trans gender vote sewn up.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
0 -
Are we expected to forget who is waiting in the background to take over again if given half a chance.SouthamObserver said:
I have now lived long enough to understand that things do genuinely move in cycles. I remember in the 1980s thinking that there was no way on earth that the Tories would ever lose power. The economy was booming in many parts of the country, Labour was tearing itself apart. Thatcher dominated everything. Then things started to slip away - she began to lose her grasp of reality, the Tories started arguing and Labour got itself together. Then everything that had happened in the 80s began to happen the other way round. And then that all changed. Currently, the right is clearly in the ascendant, so it is no surprise the centre ground has moved rightwards. At some stage, though, it will start to go the other way. As for Labour, the signs are everywhere that the far left is now beginning to tear itself apart - that is what the far left always does. This will accelerate and at some point, probably sooner than you expect, the soft and moderate left will find itself back in control.The_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That'sabout him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Also, people are losing the habit of " our family always votes Labour"
You keep reminding us how you hate the tories for the 80's - that cuts both ways my friend.0 -
At the moment I expect the Democrats to take the House in 2018, Warren to be the nominee for 2020 and Trump to be re elected but we will see what happensrottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
Quite a few also deny that she is human.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
0 -
I'm guessing that you weren't around PB when this came up on a thread a few months ago.TwistedFireStopper said:
I can't imagine any circumstances that a sane person would want to Google that.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
Somebody suggested that particular conspiracy and quoted the internet search to back it up as a Real Thing.
I replied at the time and declined the challenge as I was at work. I tried it later that evening and it was eye-opening in more ways than one!0 -
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.0 -
Actually, I think you'll fid that I have said a number of times on here that on a personal level I owe a great deal to Thatcherism.Floater said:
Are we expected to forget who is waiting in the background to take over again if given half a chance.SouthamObserver said:
I control.The_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That'sabout him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Also, people are losing the habit of " our family always votes Labour"
You keep reminding us how you hate the tories for the 80's - that cuts both ways my friend.
0 -
I'm not sure if the complete debunking of this self inflicted wound by AP was mentioned yet
Washex.am
The AP blew it big time on that National Guard immigrant roundup story https://t.co/ChrV6Aurvk by @BecketAdams https://t.co/QWLumgn50e
I've seen dozens of journalists dismantle the whole lot. I said months ago that AP had lost the plot - this is just another example.0 -
I know I'm just repeating what everyone else has already said but this twitter account is just pitch perfect.
https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/8329151206532915210 -
True - I am assuming that Trump will keep the voters he got last year. That may not be the case, but it seems that is what his strategy is all about. He does not need to persuade anyone else to back him. He just needs to make sure those who did last November do so again and that opposition remains at the same level. His challenge will be to keep his base energised while not sparking more people to turnout to vote against him. He does seem to be paving the way for massive voter suppression, so I guess that will be a part of it.HYUFD said:
Depends on Trump's approval ratings, if they fall below 40% even a majority of white voters will have turned on himSouthamObserver said:
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
Meh; deleted as I remembered he's not clever enough to understand.0
-
For our resident Obama lovers - a reality check. Do watch it - it'll help you understand the other side
For example in his first 100 days 4 nominees withdrew for example tax problems.
https://youtu.be/O_bEPX5wtco0 -
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
You have less rights nowadays, get everything and yet still whinginging constantly. Country is run to suit whinging minorities whilst kicking the crap out of the majority.isam said:
What does gay rights mean nowadays? I am not gay but don't feel as if I somehow have more rights than the people opposite who are. Where is the discrimination?The_Apocalypse said:
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.HYUFD said:
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minorityThe_Apocalypse said:
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.HYUFD said:
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few aboutThe_Apocalypse said:
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.Sean_F said:
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.The_Apocalypse said:RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
0 -
The first House poll for 2018 as I posted earlier has the GOP falling to 41% which is 4% below the 45% Trump got in 2016, his base is still with him but independents seem to be moving towards the Democrats and if he loses control of Congress in 2018 he will need to win them back by 2020 as other Presidents have done after a midterm lossSouthamObserver said:
True - I am assuming that Trump will keep the voters he got last year. That may not be the case, but it seems that is what his strategy is all about. He does not need to persuade anyone else to back him. He just needs to make sure those who did last November do so again and that opposition remains at the same level. His challenge will be to keep his base energised while not sparking more people to turnout to vote against him. He does seem to be paving the way for massive voter suppression, so I guess that will be a part of it.HYUFD said:
Depends on Trump's approval ratings, if they fall below 40% even a majority of white voters will have turned on himSouthamObserver said:
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more0 -
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.isam said:
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
New Labour was not fiscally conservative as that means spending cuts and tax cuts, the fact Labour increased spending over that time, certainly after 2004 and kept the level of income tax the same is not the same thing but is more akin to being fiscally moderate at best. Indeed George Bush Snr was more a fiscal moderate than a fiscal conservativeThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
I said they 'marketed' themselves that way. Not that they actually were fiscally conservative.HYUFD said:
New Labour was not fiscally conservative as being fiscally moderate as it means spending cuts and tax cuts, the fact Labour increased spending over that time, certainly after 2004 and kept the level of income tax the same is not the same thing. Indeed George Bush Snr was more a fiscal moderate than a fiscal conservativeThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
The only time they may have actually been that though was in Blair's first term.0 -
"Sewn up"? More "chopped off and dropped in a plastic bag"David_Evershed said:
So Michelle would have the trans gender vote sewn up.GeoffM said:
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!David_Evershed said:rottenborough said:
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.HYUFD said:
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020rottenborough said:
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?HYUFD said:
The next campaign is actually the 2018 midterms where the Democrats now have an 8% lead in the race for the HousePlatoSaid said:The next campaign begins
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
Actually the most famous, Bruce Jenner, still hasn't actually gone as far as having his bollocks cut off despite being the current poster-boy for cross-dressing. Which means that he's still just a bloke who likes wearing women's undies.
Although he's out and proud as a Republican so good for him.0 -
BNP, EDL, UKIP... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad.isam said:
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
Blair's first term you could argue was fiscally conservative yes, arguably more so than Major's although not as much as Thatcher's government was or indeed Cameron's government wasThe_Apocalypse said:
I said they 'marketed' themselves that way. Not that they actually were fiscally conservative.HYUFD said:
New Labour was not fiscally conservative as being fiscally moderate as it means spending cuts and tax cuts, the fact Labour increased spending over that time, certainly after 2004 and kept the level of income tax the same is not the same thing. Indeed George Bush Snr was more a fiscal moderate than a fiscal conservativeThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderateThe_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
The only time they may have actually been that though was in Blair's first term.0 -
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similarThe_Apocalypse said:
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.isam said:
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:The_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
Why? Two completely separate things.Theuniondivvie said:
It would been a novel outlook that voted to retain Section 28 while backing gay marriage.GeoffM said:
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?HYUFD said:
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriageGeoffM said:
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
Paging @HYUFD I've looked online for Cameron opposing gay marriage but I can't find anything. In fact, exactly the opposite.
So please back up your assertion as to his early position or withdraw it.0 -
May was in control of immigration for the Cameron years.isam said:
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similarThe_Apocalypse said:
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.isam said:
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:The_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
YouGov
Just 8% of people think Tony Blair's involvement helps the case for Britain staying in EU (35% think it harms it) https://t.co/2YNM8TV8hS https://t.co/SnHTWRHHt90 -
You don't think the PM has ultimate responsibility?foxinsoxuk said:
May was in control of immigration for the Cameron years.isam said:
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similarThe_Apocalypse said:
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.isam said:
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:The_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.0 -
I'll leave it to someone else to point out the obvious.foxinsoxuk said:
May was in control of immigration for the Cameron years.isam said:
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similarThe_Apocalypse said:
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.isam said:
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or badThe_Apocalypse said:
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years.HYUFD said:The_Apocalypse said:@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Who is going to go first?0 -
Cameron opposed gay adoption and backed Section 28 as a Conservative candidate in 1997 and 2001 so he clearly was not fully committed to gay rights at that time, he did vote for civil partnerships in the 2001-2005 Parliament but that is not the same thing as backing gay marriage and indeed even many Republicans backed domestic unions even if they opposed gay marriage at that timeGeoffM said:
Why? Two completely separate things.Theuniondivvie said:
It would been a novel outlook that voted to retain Section 28 while backing gay marriage.GeoffM said:
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?HYUFD said:
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriageGeoffM said:
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.HYUFD said:
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriageSean_F said:
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.HYUFD said:
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriageAlsoIndigo said:Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something
they are born with ... 24%
due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33%
both ... 12%
neither ... 2%
DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
Paging @HYUFD I've looked online for Cameron opposing gay marriage but I can't find anything. In fact, exactly the opposite.
So please back up your assertion as to his early position or withdraw it.0
