Surely UK politicians will not allow KRAFT to take over Unilever after KRAFT failed to live up to its commitments on the Cadbury take over?
Cadbury factory closure by Kraft 'despicable'
Business Secretary Lord Mandelson said Kraft's global chief executive, Irene Rosenfeld, had not given specific commitments on jobs when they met last week, but said she should have made the position clear.
"A week ago she would have known what announcement would be made, barely six days later.
"It would have been more honest if it had been more straight forward and straight dealing with the company and the workforce and also with the government if she had told me what their intentions were."
The Business Select Committee said that Kraft should not have said it would keep Cadbury's Somerdale factory open – only to renege on the pledge after the bid. "A company of Kraft's size and experience ought to have acted with better judgement," the MPs said.
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
"Unilever needs to accelerate and intensify its own cost-cutting programme, but the Kraft Heinz model is far too extreme and – strictly speaking – unsustainable: it’s all about leveraging up, slashing costs, moving on to another target, leveraging up again and so on."
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
Not only that but the centre ground of US voters is some way to the right of the centre ground of UK voters. Hillary Clinton is probably about the same place as Nick Clegg but with extra identity politics, almost all republicans are some way to the right of the centre of the Tory party.
In contemporary USA 28% of the public thinks homosexuality should be unlawful. We see the liberal coastal bits over here mostly, the TV and Arts output from New York and California, there is a whole vast area of deep conservatism between the two.
Clinton is very hawkish re foreign policy. I wouldn't place her as a LD, personally. Perhaps on the very right of the Labour party. If you took away the identity politics, Hillary could even be a moderate in the Conservative Party (now I'm interested in the response I'll get for saying that). I have relatives in New York and Florida, so those are the only two places in America I've actually been to and know a bit about.
I am also flabbergasted that as many as 28% of Americans believe that about homosexuality. I understand that some are passionately religious, but freedom of religion doesn't mean the right to impose religious beliefs on others.
Some people emigrated to the US in search of tolerance. Others emigrated because they wanted to create a different form of theocracy to the one that was persecuting them at home. Suppressing dissent is very much in line with US history in some States.
The American Revolution was in part fueled by anti-catholic resentment at the lack of punitive and punishing laws against Catholics when Britain gained ownership of Quebec
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
Not only that but the centre ground of US voters is some way to the right of the centre ground of UK voters. Hillary Clinton is probably about the same place as Nick Clegg but with extra identity politics, almost all republicans are some way to the right of the centre of the Tory party.
In contemporary USA 28% of the public thinks homosexuality should be unlawful. We see the liberal coastal bits over here mostly, the TV and Arts output from New York and California, there is a whole vast area of deep conservatism between the two.
Quite a lot of people define themselves in relation to their mainstream, so Clinton seems more conservative than say Gordon Brown and Sanders seems less left-wing than Corbyn, but I think the underlying attitudes are actually similar - people take the mainstream and then think "I'm going to be a bit/a lot more liberal/conservative than that". That's why the Clintons and Blair found each other extremely congenial (probably still do).
People who start by looking at each issue and only later develop a feeling that their assessments of these mean they are mostly left or right are relatively rare. The instinctive value judgment comes first.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
What does gay rights mean nowadays? I am not gay but don't feel as if I somehow have more rights than the people opposite who are. Where is the discrimination?
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
Osborne was socially moderate, economically he certainly was not and indeed he was applauded at a GOP dinner for his austerity and tax cutting policies when the Tea Party was at its height. Economically if anything May is more moderate than Cameron and Osborne even if she has moved closer to the Trump GOP on issues like immigration. None of the Labour moderates you mention are even in the Shadow Cabinet nor do they represent much beyond a third of the current Labour membership which re elected Corbyn by over 60% just 5 months ago. The fact that you would be hard placed to find even a Brownite beyond Tom Watson in the senior ranks of Labour now shows you just how far Labour has moved left
Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
Is it? One of the most important politicians in UK history makes a big comeback speech, comprehensively covered by all the news outlets, explicitly trying to derail the vote of which we talk about non stop here.. I would be amazed if he wasn't being discussed a month later
Mr. Isam, the only area that leaps to mind is perhaps (although this could instead/also be anti-male) the way that the police are said to have utterly failed to handle a serial killer investigation, the perpetrator preying on gay men.
The suggestion is that had the victims been female, the case would've been handled rather better and the fourth victim would still be alive.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That'sabout him.
True minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
I have now lived long enough to understand that things do genuinely move in cycles. I remember in the 1980s thinking that there was no way on earth that the Tories would ever lose power. The economy was booming in many parts of the country, Labour was tearing itself apart. Thatcher dominated everything. Then things started to slip away - she began to lose her grasp of reality, the Tories started arguing and Labour got itself together. Then everything that had happened in the 80s began to happen the other way round. And then that all changed. Currently, the right is clearly in the ascendant, so it is no surprise the centre ground has moved rightwards. At some stage, though, it will start to go the other way. As for Labour, the signs are everywhere that the far left is now beginning to tear itself apart - that is what the far left always does. This will accelerate and at some point, probably sooner than you expect, the soft and moderate left will find itself back in control.
Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.
Which ones? His speech began like this:
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
I will exempt a few politicians from my general contempt. Those, always on the back bench who beaver away at a single or a few subjects and get to know about it fully. It's a recipe for an obscure career.
Frank Field for one. Even Nick P of this parish who has a thing about animal welfare. I regard animals as being divided into two categories ... edible and non-edible ... but I can understand other's concerns.
But the successful ones are almost always egotists with a sense of their own infallibility.
Trump is another but he gets more vitriol because he's less clever at concealing it.
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Its does, and 37% of Americans (same survey) think that is wrong.
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
Not only that but the centre ground of US voters is some way to the right of the centre ground of UK voters. Hillary Clinton is probably about the same place as Nick Clegg but with extra identity politics, almost all republicans are some way to the right of the centre of the Tory party.
In contemporary USA 28% of the public thinks homosexuality should be unlawful. We see the liberal coastal bits over here mostly, the TV and Arts output from New York and California, there is a whole vast area of deep conservatism between the two.
Clinton is very hawkish re foreign policy. I wouldn't place her as a LD, personally. Perhaps on the very right of the Labour party. If you took away the identity politics, Hillary could even be a moderate in the Conservative Party (now I'm interested in the response I'll get for saying that). I have relatives in New York and Florida, so those are the only two places in America I've actually been to and know a bit about.
I am also flabbergasted that as many as 28% of Americans believe that about homosexuality. I understand that some are passionately religious, but freedom of religion doesn't mean the right to impose religious beliefs on others.
Some people emigrated to the US in search of tolerance. Others emigrated because they wanted to create a different form of theocracy to the one that was persecuting them at home. Suppressing dissent is very much in line with US history in some States.
The American Revolution was in part fueled by anti-catholic resentment at the lack of punitive and punishing laws against Catholics when Britain gained ownership of Quebec
Another major element was the resentment by Americans of having to pay for their defence by the British Army and Navy. They thought that they should be able to freeload.
I have now lived long enough to understand that things do genuinely move in cycles. I remember in the 1980s thinking that there was no way on earth that the Tories would ever lose power. The economy was booming in many parts of the country, Labour was tearing itself apart. Thatcher dominated everything. Then things started to slip away - she began to lose her grasp of reality, the Tories started arguing and Labour got itself together. Then everything that had happened in the 80s began to happen the other way round. And then that all changed. Currently, the right is clearly in the ascendant, so it is no surprise the centre ground has moved rightwards. At some stage, though, it will start to go the other way. As for Labour, the signs are everywhere that the far left is now beginning to tear itself apart - that is what the far left always does. This will accelerate and at some point, probably sooner than you expect, the soft and moderate left will find itself back in control.
In control of what, though? How much will the Labour brand have been "Ratnerised" by then? And for the Labour centrists to move on, they have to a manifesto that appeals to voters. At the core of that has to be an acceptance that the public sector they would want to have is never going to be affordable.
The smartest move May could make would be to offer an all party Royal Commission on the future of the NHS and care. All parties would be able to make appointments to that Commission. That would force Labour to acknowledge the limitations of what they could ever achieve in the public sector, neutralise the NHS as a political football - and leave the Tories to get to work on the soft underbelly of Labour economic policy (or lack of it).
I would expect Global Aggregate Demand would decline following an invasion of eastern Europe by Russia. We would do relatively, rather than absolutely, well.
Yes that's fair, but I think the UK would be relatively well placed to weather any storm wrt to a Russian invasion. Mostly by virtue of not being on the continent.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Its does, and 37% of Americans (same survey) think that is wrong.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
There appears to very little evidence for the author's assertion. In regard to college membership for Conservative associations spiking up, the author essentially provides only one example out of all of America. The author also appears to conflate 'Speakeasy', with conservatism. I know plenty of individuals with pretty non-PC views would never vote Conservative even if their life depended on it. Re his point on Student Unions - Student Unions are by and large utterly irrelevant.
Furthermore, in regard to the Glid poll he cites, there is an array poll which suggests that young people overall have quite liberal-left, and not Conservative attitudes:
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Ellison is in the running - its Labour with knobs on for DNC chair.
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.
Which ones? His speech began like this:
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
If it can't be endlessly talked about and picked apart on here, a site that is one of the premier sources of political information in the country, when can it? Outside in the real world, I've heard it talked about, but mostly in the "Blair only does stuff that benefits Blair" sort of comments. He's too tainted for most of the country to take him seriously, even though his speech wasn't really anything earth shattering.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
What does gay rights mean nowadays? I am not gay but don't feel as if I somehow have more rights than the people opposite who are. Where is the discrimination?
I don't think saying that someone supports gay rights implies that you think there is a lot of legal discrimination against those who are gay. Although like you, I'm not gay myself, and I'm by no means an expert on gay rights, so I can't say definitely that there is no legal discrimination whatsoever anymore. Are there any PBers from the LBGTQ community who can offer their views/experiences on this?
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriage
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.
Which ones? His speech began like this:
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
@rottenborough Biden is WAY too old. The Biden train is over and done. I agree though, as much as I love her, that Warren is not the best candidate to go up against Trump (if he's even still running on the GOP ticket come 2020). Neither is Ellison, although I don't know why he is being mentioned with some frequency on here. Sanders, Warren, Harris, and Brooker have been getting far more attention than him recently. Even Inslee.
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriage
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
The last thing the US needs is Michelle Obama as President.
Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.
Which ones? His speech began like this:
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
Curious that more than a day later folk are still talking about Blair.
I guess that's in indication of just how outrageously undemocratic and shocking his words were.
Which ones? His speech began like this:
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
If it can't be endlessly talked about and picked apart on here, a site that is one of the premier sources of political information in the country, when can it? Outside in the real world, I've heard it talked about, but mostly in the "Blair only does stuff that benefits Blair" sort of comments. He's too tainted for most of the country to take him seriously, even though his speech wasn't really anything earth shattering.
I have read the speech and agree with almost all of it. I cannot see where he urges the wishes of voters to be ignored or calls for us to stay in the EU without their consent. What he says makes a lot of sense to me - though my focus would be on getting the softest possible Brexit rather than seeking to stay inside the EU. But it will be dismissed because Blair made it. That is a shame but unfortunately he is damaged goods. What the speech highlighted more than anything is the lack of anyone of substance and appeal to make the points that Blair made. As he says, the Labour party has gone missing completely.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
Seems a strange thing to google, but each to their own.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
"Fraser agrees with Frank that the Democratic Party can no longer reasonably claim to be the party of the working class or the “little man.” Instead, he argues, the Republican and Democratic parties now represent two different elite constituencies, each with its own culture and interests and modes of thought. Fraser describes today’s Republicans as the party of “family capitalism,” encompassing everyone from the mom-and-pop business owner on up to “entrepreneurial maestros” such as the Koch brothers, Linda McMahon and Donald Trump. The Democrats, by contrast, represent the managerial world spawned by modernity, including the big universities and government bureaucracies as well as “techno frontiersmen” like Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates. These are two different ways of relating to the world — one cosmopolitan and interconnected, the other patriarchal and hierarchical. Neither one, however, offers much to working-class voters."
Class based politics is the way back for the Democrats, as it is for Labour here.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
I can't imagine any circumstances that a sane person would want to Google that.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Ellison is in the running - its Labour with knobs on for DNC chair.
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriage
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriage
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?
It would been a novel outlook that voted to retain Section 28 while backing gay marriage.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.
Depends on Trump's approval ratings, if they fall below 40% even a majority of white voters will have turned on him
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
So Michelle would have the trans gender vote sewn up.
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That'sabout him.
True minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
I have now lived long enough to understand that things do genuinely move in cycles. I remember in the 1980s thinking that there was no way on earth that the Tories would ever lose power. The economy was booming in many parts of the country, Labour was tearing itself apart. Thatcher dominated everything. Then things started to slip away - she began to lose her grasp of reality, the Tories started arguing and Labour got itself together. Then everything that had happened in the 80s began to happen the other way round. And then that all changed. Currently, the right is clearly in the ascendant, so it is no surprise the centre ground has moved rightwards. At some stage, though, it will start to go the other way. As for Labour, the signs are everywhere that the far left is now beginning to tear itself apart - that is what the far left always does. This will accelerate and at some point, probably sooner than you expect, the soft and moderate left will find itself back in control.
Are we expected to forget who is waiting in the background to take over again if given half a chance.
Also, people are losing the habit of " our family always votes Labour"
You keep reminding us how you hate the tories for the 80's - that cuts both ways my friend.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
At the moment I expect the Democrats to take the House in 2018, Warren to be the nominee for 2020 and Trump to be re elected but we will see what happens
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
I can't imagine any circumstances that a sane person would want to Google that.
I'm guessing that you weren't around PB when this came up on a thread a few months ago.
Somebody suggested that particular conspiracy and quoted the internet search to back it up as a Real Thing.
I replied at the time and declined the challenge as I was at work. I tried it later that evening and it was eye-opening in more ways than one!
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That'sabout him.
True minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
I control.
Are we expected to forget who is waiting in the background to take over again if given half a chance.
Also, people are losing the habit of " our family always votes Labour"
You keep reminding us how you hate the tories for the 80's - that cuts both ways my friend.
Actually, I think you'll fid that I have said a number of times on here that on a personal level I owe a great deal to Thatcherism.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.
Depends on Trump's approval ratings, if they fall below 40% even a majority of white voters will have turned on him
True - I am assuming that Trump will keep the voters he got last year. That may not be the case, but it seems that is what his strategy is all about. He does not need to persuade anyone else to back him. He just needs to make sure those who did last November do so again and that opposition remains at the same level. His challenge will be to keep his base energised while not sparking more people to turnout to vote against him. He does seem to be paving the way for massive voter suppression, so I guess that will be a part of it.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
RE Mike Pence - how are people like Mike Pence mainstream in the GOP? This is a party that had Colin Powell as SOS in the last Republican administration.
Over the past 50 years, there's been a big process of sorting in US politics. Back then, there were right wing Democrats and left wing Republicans. Neither group exists, now.
Yes, there are not many moderates in US politics now. It's actually rather sad, and makes me thankful that we still have quite a few moderates in British politics.
John McCain, John Kasich, Mark Warner, even Tim Kaine, there are still a few about
That's literally four people though - the fact that the list that comes to mind isn't long kind of says it all. Everytime I read Tim Kaine's name I always remember that Bill Maher joke about him.
True but the centre has also shrunk in the UK too, the number of pro EU, wet Tories can be counted on 1 hand and the number of Blairites in Corbyn Labour is also a small minority
You don't have to be europhile to be a moderate in the Conservative Party. As much as I dislike Cameron and Osborne they were essentially 'moderates', especially with Osborne and his views on gay rights and abortion. And they were controlling the Conservative Party until fairly recently. Under May the Party has not moved that much to the Right on social issues. There are actually quite a few moderates in the Labour Party - Umunna, Creasy, (even Kendall), Benn, Jarvis, etc. it's just that under Corbyn they have no chance of moving up the ranks. You don't have to be a Blairite to be a moderate in Labour. Once upon a time Gordon Brown (especially when he was Chancellor) would have been placed in the centre of British Politics.
What does gay rights mean nowadays? I am not gay but don't feel as if I somehow have more rights than the people opposite who are. Where is the discrimination?
You have less rights nowadays, get everything and yet still whinginging constantly. Country is run to suit whinging minorities whilst kicking the crap out of the majority.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
They also need African Americans to turn out in greater numbers than they did in November.
Depends on Trump's approval ratings, if they fall below 40% even a majority of white voters will have turned on him
True - I am assuming that Trump will keep the voters he got last year. That may not be the case, but it seems that is what his strategy is all about. He does not need to persuade anyone else to back him. He just needs to make sure those who did last November do so again and that opposition remains at the same level. His challenge will be to keep his base energised while not sparking more people to turnout to vote against him. He does seem to be paving the way for massive voter suppression, so I guess that will be a part of it.
The first House poll for 2018 as I posted earlier has the GOP falling to 41% which is 4% below the 45% Trump got in 2016, his base is still with him but independents seem to be moving towards the Democrats and if he loses control of Congress in 2018 he will need to win them back by 2020 as other Presidents have done after a midterm loss
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
New Labour was not fiscally conservative as that means spending cuts and tax cuts, the fact Labour increased spending over that time, certainly after 2004 and kept the level of income tax the same is not the same thing but is more akin to being fiscally moderate at best. Indeed George Bush Snr was more a fiscal moderate than a fiscal conservative
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
New Labour was not fiscally conservative as being fiscally moderate as it means spending cuts and tax cuts, the fact Labour increased spending over that time, certainly after 2004 and kept the level of income tax the same is not the same thing. Indeed George Bush Snr was more a fiscal moderate than a fiscal conservative
I said they 'marketed' themselves that way. Not that they actually were fiscally conservative.
The only time they may have actually been that though was in Blair's first term.
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
Democrats need someone who can win the ECV and that means turning around white, rural voters and rusting towns by Ohio river. That 'aint Warren in my opinion. Biden too old?
Democrats need to focus on winning the 2018 midterms first. If they do win the House then that will boost Warren and make her clear frontrunner. If the GOP do better than expected then a centrist is more likely in 2020
Not much of a book at BF. Only £237 so far. Warren fav, Michelle Obama at 12.
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
If you Google for "michelle obama is a man" or "michelle obama has a penis" you'll find plenty of websites which disagree with your first point!
So Michelle would have the trans gender vote sewn up.
"Sewn up"? More "chopped off and dropped in a plastic bag"
Actually the most famous, Bruce Jenner, still hasn't actually gone as far as having his bollocks cut off despite being the current poster-boy for cross-dressing. Which means that he's still just a bloke who likes wearing women's undies.
Although he's out and proud as a Republican so good for him.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
BNP, EDL, UKIP... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of moderates in Labour has shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. By definition being fiscally conservative does not make you a moderate it makes you a conservative on economic matters not a moderate even if you are socially more moderate. Equally you could be conservative on social matters and moderate on economics but you would still not be a moderate
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
New Labour was not fiscally conservative as being fiscally moderate as it means spending cuts and tax cuts, the fact Labour increased spending over that time, certainly after 2004 and kept the level of income tax the same is not the same thing. Indeed George Bush Snr was more a fiscal moderate than a fiscal conservative
I said they 'marketed' themselves that way. Not that they actually were fiscally conservative.
The only time they may have actually been that though was in Blair's first term.
Blair's first term you could argue was fiscally conservative yes, arguably more so than Major's although not as much as Thatcher's government was or indeed Cameron's government was
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similar
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriage
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?
It would been a novel outlook that voted to retain Section 28 while backing gay marriage.
Why? Two completely separate things.
Paging @HYUFD I've looked online for Cameron opposing gay marriage but I can't find anything. In fact, exactly the opposite.
So please back up your assertion as to his early position or withdraw it.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similar
May was in control of immigration for the Cameron years.
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similar
May was in control of immigration for the Cameron years.
You don't think the PM has ultimate responsibility?
@HYUFD I said in a previous post that Labour moderates weren't in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't disagree Labour has shifted Left - but Labour has done so because of the party's base, not because there aren't many moderates in the party. Also, isn't economically socially liberal, fiscally conservative still a moderate position? Being fiscally conservative doesn't make someone not moderate.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
The number of Blairites have shrunk dramatically since the Blair years. I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
Cameroons/Blairites/Orange Bookers... what is the difference? Party politics doesn't matter they are all the same, for good or bad
Cameroons are probably a lot more eurosceptic and have more conservative attitudes towards immigration than Blairites. Blairites are full on europhile about the EU and have VERY liberal attitudes to immigration. Orange Brookers - I guess the biggest difference between them and Blairites would be on foreign policy. Blairites seem far more hawkish than Orange Brookers, and Blair himself was a convert to neo-conservatism.
Do you think there is a big difference between Cameroons and Blairites on immigration? The two men themselves had to say different things as they were speaking to different audiences, but in terms of action they were pretty similar
May was in control of immigration for the Cameron years.
I'll leave it to someone else to point out the obvious. Who is going to go first?
Apropos Mike Pence's views of "curing" homosexuality. This from Gallup last year.
In your view is being gay or lesbian something they are born with ... 24% due to factors such as upbringing and environment ... 33% both ... 12% neither ... 2% DK ... 8%
America is definitely a different place.
The US now has gay marriage, exactly the same as the UK does. By contrast Italy, Australia, Eastern Europe and even Germany do not yet have gay marriage
Without the SCOTUS ruling though, I expect that gay marriage would be confined to the North East, West Coast, and Illinois.
For now maybe though I would add Florida and Virginia to that and Colorado and Nevada and Arizona and of course Obama was re elected in 2012 having backed gay marriage
That' rather misleading. He was first elected whilst opposing gay marriage and he changed his stance 6 months before his bid for re-election.
So, Cameron used to be opposed to gay marriage too. Obama was still re elected in 2012 on a platform of backing gay marriage
Cameron? Really? Can you back that up?
It would been a novel outlook that voted to retain Section 28 while backing gay marriage.
Why? Two completely separate things.
Paging @HYUFD I've looked online for Cameron opposing gay marriage but I can't find anything. In fact, exactly the opposite.
So please back up your assertion as to his early position or withdraw it.
Cameron opposed gay adoption and backed Section 28 as a Conservative candidate in 1997 and 2001 so he clearly was not fully committed to gay rights at that time, he did vote for civil partnerships in the 2001-2005 Parliament but that is not the same thing as backing gay marriage and indeed even many Republicans backed domestic unions even if they opposed gay marriage at that time
Comments
And your local corner store has a 0% market share in Cornwall or Wales.
There many ways the EU is not a Single Market. But differential local market shares is not evidence of that.
See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/cbry/8531542/Kraft-acted-irresponsibly-in-Cadbury-takeover-say-MPs.html
The Telegraph's worse than the Guardian nowadays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaJETvp_YL4
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/17/unileverwas-right-reject-kraft-heinz-bid/
"RobD hit the nail on the head yesterday - Blair is focusing on his own ego, as always."
Fair enough.
Blair, Trump, politicians, they'll all the same.
People who start by looking at each issue and only later develop a feeling that their assessments of these mean they are mostly left or right are relatively rare. The instinctive value judgment comes first.
The suggestion is that had the victims been female, the case would've been handled rather better and the fourth victim would still be alive.
Just 894 migrants have been returned to Turkey under the €7,000,000,000 EU deal.
€7.8M for each migrant returned
https://t.co/2M2D2kTobK
According to Stern
"I want to be explicit. Yes, the British people voted to leave Europe. And I agree the will of the people should prevail. I accept right now there is no widespread appetite to re-think."
The whole thing is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/17/will-say-leaving-inevitable-isnt-tony-blairs-brexit-speech-full/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-39000681
"UPDATE: Over 25,000 supporters are expected to attend Saturday’s rally in Melbourne, Florida by President Donald Trump, according to Brevard County Republican Chairman Rick Lacey. Lacey spoke to WESH-TV Friday. WESH reported a large open field adjacent the tarmac and hanger is being prepped with jumbotrons to accommodate the massive crowd.
http://paper.li/InGodIDoTrust/1336836181?read=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/tickets-released-huuuge-trump-melbourne-fl-rally-meet-incredibly-high-demand/
Frank Field for one. Even Nick P of this parish who has a thing about animal welfare. I regard animals as being divided into two categories ... edible and non-edible ... but I can understand other's concerns.
But the successful ones are almost always egotists with a sense of their own infallibility.
Trump is another but he gets more vitriol because he's less clever at concealing it.
The smartest move May could make would be to offer an all party Royal Commission on the future of the NHS and care. All parties would be able to make appointments to that Commission. That would force Labour to acknowledge the limitations of what they could ever achieve in the public sector, neutralise the NHS as a political football - and leave the Tories to get to work on the soft underbelly of Labour economic policy (or lack of it).
Those sort of "folk"?
My yardstick for something reaching public consciousness is if I hear it talked about in the pub.
https://twitter.com/ppppolls/status/830063249060159489
Americans as a whole think Trump will be the worst president since Nixon
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2017/01/americans-think-trump-will-be-worst-president-since-nixon.html#more
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/05/20/voters-back-same-sex-marriage/
Furthermore, in regard to the Glid poll he cites, there is an array poll which suggests that young people overall have quite liberal-left, and not Conservative attitudes:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/21/immigration-lowest-priority-young-people-brexit-poll
We even have findings like this now (which don't reflect my views btw) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/26/a-majority-of-millennials-now-reject-capitalism-poll-shows/?utm_term=.f408449b7822
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-10
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/07/news/la-pn-millennials-liberal-views-pew-poll-20140306
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/08/06/poll-young-adults-strongly-support-gun-control/
https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2016/09/08/poll-support-for-black-lives-matter-now-majority-view-among-young-adults/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02uhSjrkcDM&t=838s
Outside in the real world, I've heard it talked about, but mostly in the "Blair only does stuff that benefits Blair" sort of comments. He's too tainted for most of the country to take him seriously, even though his speech wasn't really anything earth shattering.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-robots-lawmaking-idUSKBN15V2KM
https://youtu.be/3cDLflyQ8TA
Michelle would be the first woman president and first black president.
Note. Barack Obama was mixed race with a white mother.
http://www.france24.com/en/20170218-frances-fillon-vows-run-president-despite-fake-jobs-row
But that the arrangement exists seems to have dramatically reduced the flow of migrants from Turkey to Greece.
@SouthamObserver Yes, one day Labour will at some point get it together. Although it still feels like even after getting rid of Corbyn, the party still has a mountain to climb.
@PlatoSaid I loved Larry Wilmore and Malcom Nance's responses to Milo, although that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. As someone who enjoys the Real Time With Bill Maher (despite disagreeing with him on several issues), I would have liked to have seen him challenge Milo a lot more on the show. Milo I think got off fairly easy, especially when looking at how Maher treats bog standard Republicans like Coulter on his show. Milo actually probably did better on the show than Lahren, who made to look totally out of her depth when she was on there a few weeks ago. I'm surprised her name has cropped up on this site (as far I as I've seen) until now. Her views would be right up many people's streets on here.
"Fraser agrees with Frank that the Democratic Party can no longer reasonably claim to be the party of the working class or the “little man.” Instead, he argues, the Republican and Democratic parties now represent two different elite constituencies, each with its own culture and interests and modes of thought. Fraser describes today’s Republicans as the party of “family capitalism,” encompassing everyone from the mom-and-pop business owner on up to “entrepreneurial maestros” such as the Koch brothers, Linda McMahon and Donald Trump. The Democrats, by contrast, represent the managerial world spawned by modernity, including the big universities and government bureaucracies as well as “techno frontiersmen” like Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates. These are two different ways of relating to the world — one cosmopolitan and interconnected, the other patriarchal and hierarchical. Neither one, however, offers much to working-class voters."
Class based politics is the way back for the Democrats, as it is for Labour here.
https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo020516/debtext/20516-32.htm#20516-32_div244
Nothing positive for Blair in anything that was said.
This is what the establishment left really thinks about minorities. https://t.co/d7CveIRy0i
Also, people are losing the habit of " our family always votes Labour"
You keep reminding us how you hate the tories for the 80's - that cuts both ways my friend.
Somebody suggested that particular conspiracy and quoted the internet search to back it up as a Real Thing.
I replied at the time and declined the challenge as I was at work. I tried it later that evening and it was eye-opening in more ways than one!
Washex.am
The AP blew it big time on that National Guard immigrant roundup story https://t.co/ChrV6Aurvk by @BecketAdams https://t.co/QWLumgn50e
I've seen dozens of journalists dismantle the whole lot. I said months ago that AP had lost the plot - this is just another example.
https://twitter.com/donaeldunready/status/832915120653291521
For example in his first 100 days 4 nominees withdrew for example tax problems.
https://youtu.be/O_bEPX5wtco
I'm aware of what fiscal conservatism means. Also being fiscally conservatism and economically liberal is associated with being moderate. It's essentially what New Labour marketed themselves as until 2007.
The only time they may have actually been that though was in Blair's first term.
Actually the most famous, Bruce Jenner, still hasn't actually gone as far as having his bollocks cut off despite being the current poster-boy for cross-dressing. Which means that he's still just a bloke who likes wearing women's undies.
Although he's out and proud as a Republican so good for him.
Paging @HYUFD I've looked online for Cameron opposing gay marriage but I can't find anything. In fact, exactly the opposite.
So please back up your assertion as to his early position or withdraw it.
Just 8% of people think Tony Blair's involvement helps the case for Britain staying in EU (35% think it harms it) https://t.co/2YNM8TV8hS https://t.co/SnHTWRHHt9
Who is going to go first?