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It's not me who's creating business uncertainty by pushing SindyRef2 - I'm with the Scottish voter - either after BREXIT or at least 20 years....malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
The Quebec Effect.CarlottaVance said:OVER the past seven months the British economy has beaten almost all forecasts. Since the Brexit vote last June, a recession has easily been avoided and job growth remains decent. In one part of the country, however, things look very different. In the year to September Scotland’s GDP grew by 0.7%, while that of the rest of the country grew by 2.4% (see chart). Employment there is falling and wages growing much more slowly than elsewhere.
Scotland’s weak performance is linked to problems in its two most important industries: energy and finance. Those two businesses’ exports have together accounted for up to a third of Scotland’s GDP in the past. Now both are in trouble.
Scottish finance is struggling for two reasons. First, argues Owen Kelly of Edinburgh Napier University, it disproportionately comprises mid-range work, such as customer service. Those jobs are vulnerable to automation, which is proceeding apace across the financial-services industry.....Second, speculation about another independence referendum is hurting the industry. Since the Brexit vote, in which a majority of Scots chose to Remain, the ruling Scottish National Party has accelerated plans for what it calls “indyref2”..... This concerns Scottish financial firms much more than Brexit does. The vast bulk of their business takes place in the rest of Britain, not Scotland,..... Some firms are making contingency plans. Murray Asset Management, another Edinburgh firm, recently moved its registered office to London
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21717089-cheap-oil-and-loss-jobs-finance-have-brought-economic-growth-almost
All drearily predictable.
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?0 -
You're constructing your case on a double misreading of an opinion poll question to claim I insulted the electorate.CarlottaVance said:
Its not me who constructs his case on the basis of ardent Blairites being in UKIP.....AlastairMeeks said:
I think you've been busted.CarlottaVance said:
Since the strongest scores for 'harm his cause' were among UKIP (44) Con (40) and Lib Dem (39) voters - do you think there are many 'ardent Blairites' among their ranks?AlastairMeeks said:
An ardent Blairite who agreed with every word might well have been among the 35% who thought his intervention would harm his cause.CarlottaVance said:
Then do explain.....if you can.AlastairMeeks said:
Your lack of comprehension is indeed not in doubt.CarlottaVance said:
It's not my comprehension which is in doubt.....AlastairMeeks said:
Since you obviously can't read or do maths, it isn't worth the effort.CarlottaVance said:
Do educate us.....AlastairMeeks said:
On two different levels that poll does not say what you suggest it says.CarlottaVance said:
Oh, you mean, voters? Keep up the good work - insulting the electorate worked a treat in the EURef....AlastairMeeks said:I see the Blair-haters have yet to get over his temerity in voicing an opinion. Poor snowflakes.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/832643579113639936
What does it say?0 -
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.0 -
Its not a question of salivating Malcolm, it is more a deep frustration that the reluctance to accept the outcome of the referendum is damaging our economy and thus, ironically, our viability as an independent nation.malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
Scotland is still reeling from the impact of the collapse of oil prices and the consequential collapse of investment. There is very little that the SNP or even the UK can do about that. The tax regime has been made more benign to the point that the tax take is falling to zero but the north sea was always a high cost producer and even that only achieves so much.
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.0 -
Prescient viewpoint from darkest Swindon MonicaMonikerDiCanio said:
Blame the English isn't working anymore. SLab's fate awaits the failing SNP occupation.malcolmg said:
London looking after itself and shafting Scotland first, business as usual. Only one solution , when you give someome else all your money you are stupid to think they will spend it on your interests rather than their own.CarlottaVance said:OVER the past seven months the British economy has beaten almost all forecasts. Since the Brexit vote last June, a recession has easily been avoided and job growth remains decent. In one part of the country, however, things look very different. In the year to September Scotland’s GDP grew by 0.7%, while that of the rest of the country grew by 2.4% (see chart). Employment there is falling and wages growing much more slowly than elsewhere.
Scotland’s weak performance is linked to problems in its two most important industries: energy and finance. Those two businesses’ exports have together accounted for up to a third of Scotland’s GDP in the past. Now both are in trouble.
Scottish finance is struggling for two reasons. First, argues Owen Kelly of Edinburgh Napier University, it disproportionately comprises mid-range work, such as customer service. Those jobs are vulnerable to automation, which is proceeding apace across the financial-services industry.....Second, speculation about another independence referendum is hurting the industry. Since the Brexit vote, in which a majority of Scots chose to Remain, the ruling Scottish National Party has accelerated plans for what it calls “indyref2”..... This concerns Scottish financial firms much more than Brexit does. The vast bulk of their business takes place in the rest of Britain, not Scotland,..... Some firms are making contingency plans. Murray Asset Management, another Edinburgh firm, recently moved its registered office to London
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21717089-cheap-oil-and-loss-jobs-finance-have-brought-economic-growth-almost-1 -
Shows how thick and stupid they are given negotiations have not even started.CarlottaVance said:
One set has shifted substantially - 'How well or badly do you think the government are doing at negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU?', from -51 to -9:DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/how-well-or-badly-do-you-the-government-are-doing-at-negotiating-britains-exit-from-the-eu/?removed=removed&groups[0][0]=Very+well&groups[0][1]=Fairly+well&groups[1][2]=Fairly+badly&groups[1][3]=Very+badly0 -
F1: just a reminder that testing starts in 9 days, so if you want a heroic/daft early bet, now's the time. Of course, waiting for the mood music will give a better steer but the odds will shift.0
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Yes, but we were told that the four horsemen of the apocalypse would visit famine, pestilence, and death on the UK if it were to even vote leave.IanB2 said:
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.0 -
Morning comrades!
Has Tony started bombing the cr*p out of Hull for daring to leave the EU yet?0 -
Well said. It is only this analysis that makes me understand the Tory surge.DavidL said:
Its not a question of salivating Malcolm, it is more a deep frustration that the reluctance to accept the outcome of the referendum is damaging our economy and thus, ironically, our viability as an independent nation.malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
Scotland is still reeling from the impact of the collapse of oil prices and the consequential collapse of investment. There is very little that the SNP or even the UK can do about that. The tax regime has been made more benign to the point that the tax take is falling to zero but the north sea was always a high cost producer and even that only achieves so much.
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.0 -
Swindon, my home town (well, nearby!)malcolmg said:
Prescient viewpoint from darkest Swindon MonicaMonikerDiCanio said:
Blame the English isn't working anymore. SLab's fate awaits the failing SNP occupation.malcolmg said:
London looking after itself and shafting Scotland first, business as usual. Only one solution , when you give someome else all your money you are stupid to think they will spend it on your interests rather than their own.CarlottaVance said:OVER the past seven months the British economy has beaten almost all forecasts. Since the Brexit vote last June, a recession has easily been avoided and job growth remains decent. In one part of the country, however, things look very different. In the year to September Scotland’s GDP grew by 0.7%, while that of the rest of the country grew by 2.4% (see chart). Employment there is falling and wages growing much more slowly than elsewhere.
Scotland’s weak performance is linked to problems in its two most important industries: energy and finance. Those two businesses’ exports have together accounted for up to a third of Scotland’s GDP in the past. Now both are in trouble.
Scottish finance is struggling for two reasons. First, argues Owen Kelly of Edinburgh Napier University, it disproportionately comprises mid-range work, such as customer service. Those jobs are vulnerable to automation, which is proceeding apace across the financial-services industry.....Second, speculation about another independence referendum is hurting the industry. Since the Brexit vote, in which a majority of Scots chose to Remain, the ruling Scottish National Party has accelerated plans for what it calls “indyref2”..... This concerns Scottish financial firms much more than Brexit does. The vast bulk of their business takes place in the rest of Britain, not Scotland,..... Some firms are making contingency plans. Murray Asset Management, another Edinburgh firm, recently moved its registered office to London
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21717089-cheap-oil-and-loss-jobs-finance-have-brought-economic-growth-almost
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Next you will be telling me the Tories are promoting business in Scotland and helping with the demise of oil as much as they trousered the billions for 30 + years. Cutting the budgets is really helpful of them.CarlottaVance said:
It's not me who's creating business uncertainty by pushing SindyRef2 - I'm with the Scottish voter - either after BREXIT or at least 20 years....malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
The Quebec Effect.CarlottaVance said:OVER the past seven months the British economy has beaten almost all forecasts. Since the Brexit vote last June, a recession has easily been avoided and job growth remains decent. In one part of the country, however, things look very different. In the year to September Scotland’s GDP grew by 0.7%, while that of the rest of the country grew by 2.4% (see chart). Employment there is falling and wages growing much more slowly than elsewhere.
Scotland’s weak performance is linked to problems in its two most important industries: energy and finance. Those two businesses’ exports have together accounted for up to a third of Scotland’s GDP in the past. Now both are in trouble.
Scottish finance is struggling for two reasons. First, argues Owen Kelly of Edinburgh Napier University, it disproportionately comprises mid-range work, such as customer service. Those jobs are vulnerable to automation, which is proceeding apace across the financial-services industry.....Second, speculation about another independence referendum is hurting the industry. Since the Brexit vote, in which a majority of Scots chose to Remain, the ruling Scottish National Party has accelerated plans for what it calls “indyref2”..... This concerns Scottish financial firms much more than Brexit does. The vast bulk of their business takes place in the rest of Britain, not Scotland,..... Some firms are making contingency plans. Murray Asset Management, another Edinburgh firm, recently moved its registered office to London
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21717089-cheap-oil-and-loss-jobs-finance-have-brought-economic-growth-almost
All drearily predictable.
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?0 -
And you win today's Alastair Meeks' Award for Condescension to the Electoratemalcolmg said:
Shows how thick and stupid they are given negotiations have not even started.CarlottaVance said:
One set has shifted substantially - 'How well or badly do you think the government are doing at negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU?', from -51 to -9:DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/how-well-or-badly-do-you-the-government-are-doing-at-negotiating-britains-exit-from-the-eu/?removed=removed&groups[0][0]=Very+well&groups[0][1]=Fairly+well&groups[1][2]=Fairly+badly&groups[1][3]=Very+badly0 -
I think that is largely the Tories funnelling as I have said. As a Tory (despite those graph things we were doing the other day) I am not sure how I would even answer that. The correct answer is surely, well, there haven't really been any yet.CarlottaVance said:
One set has shifted substantially - 'How well or badly do you think the government are doing at negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU?', from -51 to -9:DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/how-well-or-badly-do-you-the-government-are-doing-at-negotiating-britains-exit-from-the-eu/?removed=removed&groups[0][0]=Very+well&groups[0][1]=Fairly+well&groups[1][2]=Fairly+badly&groups[1][3]=Very+badly0 -
Wokingham voted 57% Remain. (Spreadsheet prediction was 56%).logical_song said:
Britain Elects @britainelects 8h8 hours agoOldKingCole said:
Every LD gain seems to be down to local/unique circumstances! Surprising how many such circumstances there are. And congrats to Mrs B.CarlottaVance said:
It was a Lib Dem triumph against the Tories an independent under normal unique circumstances.....RobD said:
What about it?Bromptonaut said:
Richmond.Sean_F said:
Take a look at how Labour performed in local by-elections, after 1997. It had no bearing on the next two general elections.surbiton said:FPT
First of all, well done !MrsB said:what's really interesting in that Emmbrook result is when you compare it to 2016 (Wokingham elects in thirds) - Lib Dems 1222 Cons 1235 has become Lib Dems 1575 and Cons 879.
Campaign fought on local issues, including development, roads, school funding and the local Tories being a bunch of unpleasant greedy people who are fighting like rats in a sack.
As the Lib Dem agent, I am very proud.
Second, I repeat what I wrote a couple of days back. I am beginning to doubt the current opinion polls. All these adjustments to the weighting has created a dog's breakfast.
The Tories cannot have such a big lead and lose badly in all sorts of local by-elections , up and down the country.
How can it be that only the Tories do not come out to vote ?
Emmbrook (Wokingham) result:
LDEM: 59.7% (+22.3)
CON: 33.3% (-4.5)
UKIP: 3.9% (-11.7)
LAB: 3.0% (-6.1)
Britain Elects @britainelects 8h8 hours ago
Liberal Democrat GAIN Emmbrook (Wokingham) from Conservative
Another big swing to the LibDems and UKIP the biggest loser.0 -
The Tories recover in Scotland as the referendum allowed them to become the only true unionist party, in the same way that the LibDems are now the only true pro-EU party. And, I expect, the SNP benefited from some tactical anti-Labour votes, that are unwinding now the job is done.Mortimer said:
Well said. It is only this analysis that makes me understand the Tory surge.DavidL said:
Its not a question of salivating Malcolm, it is more a deep frustration that the reluctance to accept the outcome of the referendum is damaging our economy and thus, ironically, our viability as an independent nation.malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES!MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
Scotland is still reeling from the impact of the collapse of oil prices and the consequential collapse of investment. There is very little that the SNP or even the UK can do about that. The tax regime has been made more benign to the point that the tax take is falling to zero but the north sea was always a high cost producer and even that only achieves so much.
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.
Edit/and, as a further thought, some of the bile that used to be directed at the Tories north of the border has clearly been reallocated to Labour.0 -
The SNP's best move would be to declare UDI on tariffs (None) and freedom of movement (Open wrt England and Europe, even if rUK is not open to Scots) in an independent Scotland with both rUK and Europe whilst pursuing aggressively a 3% deficit strategy.DavidL said:
Its not a question of salivating Malcolm, it is more a deep frustration that the reluctance to accept the outcome of the referendum is damaging our economy and thus, ironically, our viability as an independent nation.malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
Scotland is still reeling from the impact of the collapse of oil prices and the consequential collapse of investment. There is very little that the SNP or even the UK can do about that. The tax regime has been made more benign to the point that the tax take is falling to zero but the north sea was always a high cost producer and even that only achieves so much.
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.
A sort of rEU Singapore reverse May strategy.0 -
The SNP are far from great David but at least they have Scotland's interests at heart, the London Tory and Labour cronies do not even pretend they do. London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland and skint or not our only chance is to get independance. Alternative is continual decline as London neglect us ever more. Whilst the opposition is just two London centred nonentity parties the SNP are not pushed and will end up just like Labour. With independence we could have real Scottish opposition parties.DavidL said:malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.
PS: For Carlotta it is seen as great news, she views it through the prism of her hatred for everything Scottish.
On the other hand if we had a real Scottish Tory party we could have nice human beings like yourself running it.0 -
Getting those horses and all their gear together takes a little time.RobD said:
Yes, but we were told that the four horsemen of the apocalypse would visit famine, pestilence, and death on the UK if it were to even vote leave.IanB2 said:
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.
And didnt your mother advise you not to believe everything you are told?0 -
Apocalypse Now LaterRobD said:
Yes, but we were told that the four horsemen of the apocalypse would visit famine, pestilence, and death on the UK if it were to even vote leave.IanB2 said:
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.0 -
As nothing much has happened, are the findings a surprise?0
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Translation: like lefties with Thatcher, Lib Dems will blame anything and everything on Brexit for years and decades after it has actually happened.IanB2 said:
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.0 -
Tories & UKIP, with minor shifts in Lab & Lib DemDavidL said:
I think that is largely the Tories funnelling as I have said.CarlottaVance said:
One set has shifted substantially - 'How well or badly do you think the government are doing at negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU?', from -51 to -9:DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/how-well-or-badly-do-you-the-government-are-doing-at-negotiating-britains-exit-from-the-eu/?removed=removed&groups[0][0]=Very+well&groups[0][1]=Fairly+well&groups[1][2]=Fairly+badly&groups[1][3]=Very+badly
Net Well - Feb 17 diff vs Sep 16
Con: +57
Lab: +7
LibD: +5
UKIP: +550 -
Mr. Pulpstar, a UDI is not a good idea. A dramatic change in one's political arrangement requires consent of the people, not imposition by a single political party.
If the SNP win a Holyrood majority, with an independence referendum in their manifesto, that's legitimate grounds for such a referendum. Just imposing their own view on a country which voted against that very thing a few years ago is anti-democratic.0 -
It's always apocalypse tommorow and apocalpse yesterday, but never apocalypse today.Essexit said:
Apocalypse Now LaterRobD said:
Yes, but we were told that the four horsemen of the apocalypse would visit famine, pestilence, and death on the UK if it were to even vote leave.IanB2 said:
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.
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When will the UK government state that the UK went to war based on a lie and apologise?Mortimer said:
Forgiving those who had the wool pulled over their eyes is very easy when many in Britain shared the same fate.foxinsoxuk said:
It does, and Mrs May's Tories are very good at dodging the blame. The Iraq war couldnt have happened without their support outvoting the LDs and Labour rebels.SquareRoot said:
As soon as Blair comes on the telly I reckon most people turn off or switch channel. The Iraq war hangs round his neck like a noose.CarlottaVance said:SquareRoot said:
Blair will never get a hearing as he is a) untrustworthy and b) yesterdays man.AlastairMeeks said:I see the Blair-haters have yet to get over his temerity in voicing an opinion. Poor snowflakes.
He has built a huge personal fortune on the back of his Middle East ambassador status and though his friendship with another loathed individual.
Not all ex-PMs are liabilities - ahead of the last GE Major came out pretty well;
We heard recently Tony Blair pledge to "do whatever it takes to help Ed Miliband win". But what would be help most, visible support or keeping out of the way? For Red Box, YouGov asked the nation: "Thinking about retired politicians playing a role in the current election, do you think getting support from the following politicians would be an asset or a liability for today's politicians?"
The overall greatest asset is considered to be John Major, who scores net zero among the general public, although he is +21 among Conservatives supporters. The second greatest asset, only a whisker behind Major, is Paddy Ashdown on net -1, and net +45 among Liberal Democrats. Bottom of the league is Tony Blair, at net -47, and even among Labour supporters he scores net -22.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/02/18/blair-election-liability-and-major-asset-say-voter/
Unfortunately, some Remainers are so convinced of their own position's moral rectitude they simply can't understand why any politician - whatever his record - who cleaves to their cause isn't worshiped as a returned prodigal son, here to cast the scales from the eyes of a dumb electorate.
Forgiving the wool master in chief is not likely, however much Violet Elizabeths scream and scream until they are sick...
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To be honest the Tory surge is more being driven by the Labour party collapse and the SNP move onto ex Labour turf as a more left of centre than centre left party. Watch the locals. The Tories will do well in all the areas they used to win seats in, the borders, the north east, the posher parts of Edinburgh, Perthshire, Kincardine, probably even Angus. The SNP will take Glasgow and its surrounds from Labour bigly as our US President would say.Mortimer said:
Well said. It is only this analysis that makes me understand the Tory surge.DavidL said:
Its not a question of salivating Malcolm, it is more a deep frustration that the reluctance to accept the outcome of the referendum is damaging our economy and thus, ironically, our viability as an independent nation.malcolmg said:
Scotland is still reeling from the impact of the collapse of oil prices and the consequential collapse of investment. There is very little that the SNP or even the UK can do about that. The tax regime has been made more benign to the point that the tax take is falling to zero but the north sea was always a high cost producer and even that only achieves so much.
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.0 -
Blair's biggest mistake was not calling a referendum on joining the Euro in about 1998. The result probably would have been 55-60% YES such was his popularity at the time, and being a member of the currency union would have made leaving the EU much more difficult.0
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Re: America - Very very early days, but Trump still looks nailed on to serve a second term to me.0
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Morning GIN, was amazed to hear the other day that you are a sandal wearing lentil munching Lib Dem. What is the world coming to, you always sounded like a normal human as well.GIN1138 said:Morning comrades!
Has Tony started bombing the cr*p out of Hull for daring to leave the EU yet?0 -
The pound has surely done its falling.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.
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You may be waiting a very long time.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm following the opposite strategy. I want Leavers to get steadily more entrenched in their opinions so that when the volte face becomes necessary to even the dimmest Leave voter, it is all the more excruciatingly humiliating for them.Alanbrooke said:
clearly youre not campaigning hard enough to shift our opinionsAlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
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So why do they send you £9 billion a year?malcolmg said:
London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland.DavidL said:malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.
And as with the SNP, you conflate my dislike of the SNP with a dislike of Scotland.
The SNP is not Scotland.0 -
Lentil sales in Wokingham must be sky high if the crop is feeding nearly 60% of the voting populationmalcolmg said:
Morning GIN, was amazed to hear the other day that you are a sandal wearing lentil munching Lib Dem. What is the world coming to, you always sounded like a normal human as well.GIN1138 said:Morning comrades!
Has Tony started bombing the cr*p out of Hull for daring to leave the EU yet?0 -
Mr. JS, the constitutional idiocy (unless you're an SNP type, in which case it's working rather well) was Blair's biggest domestic error.0
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236504/QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-breathless-Tony-Blair-mission.html
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.0 -
Thanks. Nice to see my guesses backed up by actual figures occasionally.CarlottaVance said:
Tories & UKIP, with minor shifts in Lab & Lib DemDavidL said:
I think that is largely the Tories funnelling as I have said.CarlottaVance said:
One set has shifted substantially - 'How well or badly do you think the government are doing at negotiating Britain’s exit from the EU?', from -51 to -9:DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable.
http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/how-well-or-badly-do-you-the-government-are-doing-at-negotiating-britains-exit-from-the-eu/?removed=removed&groups[0][0]=Very+well&groups[0][1]=Fairly+well&groups[1][2]=Fairly+badly&groups[1][3]=Very+badly
Net Well - Feb 17 diff vs Sep 16
Con: +57
Lab: +7
LibD: +5
UKIP: +550 -
Just checked and Wokingham had the 19th highest REMAIN share of the vote in England outside London at 56.7%.IanB2 said:
Lentil sales in Wokingham must be sky high if the crop is feeding nearly 60% of the voting populationmalcolmg said:
Morning GIN, was amazed to hear the other day that you are a sandal wearing lentil munching Lib Dem. What is the world coming to, you always sounded like a normal human as well.GIN1138 said:Morning comrades!
Has Tony started bombing the cr*p out of Hull for daring to leave the EU yet?0 -
Oh that last sentence stings.PlatoSaid said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236504/QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-breathless-Tony-Blair-mission.html
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.0 -
And on the other side we'll see stuff like this:Essexit said:
Translation: like lefties with Thatcher, Lib Dems will blame anything and everything on Brexit for years and decades after it has actually happened.IanB2 said:
Despite everyone's impatience, the 'real' impact of Brexit on trade and international relations will be a slow burn with the story unfolding during the years after actual exit. Anything that happens earlier than that is sentiment. Sentiment can of course have a big economic impact through the markets, but lack of sentiment-driven impact provides few clues as to whether the actual impact will be real and insignificant, or not. As with the French Revolution, we shall just have to wait and see...RobD said:
I've been assured that the apocalypse is scheduled for the moment after A50 is triggered.Pulpstar said:
Art 50 hasn't yet been triggered, and the economy has remained broadly positive.AlastairMeeks said:Few have changed their mind yet, it seems. I find that surprising. You'd have thought that the country would have shifted one way or the other by now.
If the economy stutters and we get back inflation once art 50 is triggered, and particularly migration rises I'd expect sentiment to shift towards 'We should have stayed'.
If the economy does well, inflation keeps low, the pound doesn't fall too much and migration reduces meaningfully then I'd expect sentiment to shift fully behind brexit.
We'll see.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/16/general-motors-decision-quit-europe-cant-blamed-brexit/
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That's true.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, the constitutional idiocy (unless you're an SNP type, in which case it's working rather well) was Blair's biggest domestic error.
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It's amazing how such a busted flush can attract so much attention.PlatoSaid said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4236504/QUENTIN-LETTS-sees-breathless-Tony-Blair-mission.html
"Mr Blair was a little breathless, as though keen to show us how brave he was – the only person left with principles! ‘I don’t know if we can succeed,’ he gasped. In a Tintin book this would have been accompanied by three droplets of sweat jumping off his brow.
Fading divas retain their theatricality. It’s the notes that go wrong. Hundreds of thousands of today’s voters were not even born when this man won his first general election. The Blair era was a different world. How odd to think that this man once understood the power of the new.
0 -
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
malcolmg will be interested in this story about an archeological turnip supper.
http://www.archaeology.org/news/5308-170214-siberia-turnip-pot
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I think there is churn. Excluding don't knows, the Conservatives have shifted from about 62/38% Leave to 72/28%. There's a further element of Conservative voters who think that the decision to Leave was wrong, but aren't that bothered by it.DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable. I wonder if they conceal any meaningful churn? My impression is that Tories are now funnelling in behind the current leadership and supporting what is government policy. The Lib Dems, who have had some gains as a result, are more obviously focussed on remain than ever. Labour are, as usual, all over the place.
I suspect the key moments are now coming up. Once the Bill is passed and the Article 50 notice is actually served I suspect that the focus of the vast majority will move on to what kind of Brexit rather than should there be one.
The very long hiatus since June has therefore contributed to the apparent stability. Parties need to think not just about their current positioning but what their positioning will be then. To that extent I disagree with Professor Curtis although Labour should certainly be reflecting the concerns of remainers about the Single Market, for example.0 -
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:
0 -
I cam across Quentin's first novel the other day in a charity shop. He's a great fiction writer...CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
Well put.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
The SNP are far from great David but at least they have Scotland's interests at heart, the London Tory and Labour cronies do not even pretend they do. London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland and skint or not our only chance is to get independance. Alternative is continual decline as London neglect us ever more. Whilst the opposition is just two London centred nonentity parties the SNP are not pushed and will end up just like Labour. With independence we could have real Scottish opposition parties.DavidL said:
.malcolmg said:CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
PS: For Carlotta it is seen as great news, she views it through the prism of her hatred for everything Scottish.
On the other hand if we had a real Scottish Tory party we could have nice human beings like yourself running it.
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.0 -
Blair didn't want to do devolution iirc. He was saddled it from previous policy/manifesto reviews. Indeed, it was effectively unfinished business from Callaghan. Seems to recall he said something about a glorified parish council.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, the constitutional idiocy (unless you're an SNP type, in which case it's working rather well) was Blair's biggest domestic error.
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Hang on a minute.. its only the media that think he is box office..Jonathan said:
Well put.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
He's not saying anything we haven't already heard from Tim Farron or Nick Clegg, though Blair does outdo them when it comes to being patronising and arrogant, I'll give him that. Obviously it attracts attention that a former big figure like him has resurfaced.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
The front page of the Guardian is 'Blair's Brexit Speech Sparks Labour Fury'.....the only other front page he makes is the Express......so as was pointed out yesterday, this was all about Tony.......SouthamObserver said:
If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
The SNP are far from great David but at least they have Scotland's interests at heart, the London Tory and Labour cronies do not even pretend they do. London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland and skint or not our only chance is to get independance. Alternative is continual decline as London neglect us ever more. Whilst the opposition is just two London centred nonentity parties the SNP are not pushed and will end up just like Labour. With independence we could have real Scottish opposition parties.DavidL said:
.malcolmg said:CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
PS: For Carlotta it is seen as great news, she views it through the prism of her hatred for everything Scottish.
On the other hand if we had a real Scottish Tory party we could have nice human beings like yourself running it.
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
0 -
The not so secret Tory weapon of loyalty.Sean_F said:
I think there is churn. Excluding don't knows, the Conservatives have shifted from about 62/38% Leave to 72/28%. There's a further element of Conservative voters who think that the decision to Leave was wrong, but aren't that bothered by it.DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable. I wonder if they conceal any meaningful churn? My impression is that Tories are now funnelling in behind the current leadership and supporting what is government policy. The Lib Dems, who have had some gains as a result, are more obviously focussed on remain than ever. Labour are, as usual, all over the place.
I suspect the key moments are now coming up. Once the Bill is passed and the Article 50 notice is actually served I suspect that the focus of the vast majority will move on to what kind of Brexit rather than should there be one.
The very long hiatus since June has therefore contributed to the apparent stability. Parties need to think not just about their current positioning but what their positioning will be then. To that extent I disagree with Professor Curtis although Labour should certainly be reflecting the concerns of remainers about the Single Market, for example.0 -
8 years? He'll be lucky to do two. I suspect Mike Pence will use the 25th amendment to take power from a President who is clearly mad.rcs1000 said:
What odds will you offer me on the whole eight years?Pulpstar said:Re: America - Very very early days, but Trump still looks nailed on to serve a second term to me.
0 -
AntiFrank was possibly the finest below the line poster PB ever had.
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Morning Malc. ::)malcolmg said:
Morning GIN, was amazed to hear the other day that you are a sandal wearing lentil munching Lib Dem. What is the world coming to, you always sounded like a normal human as well.GIN1138 said:Morning comrades!
Has Tony started bombing the cr*p out of Hull for daring to leave the EU yet?
I was surprised that I came out as a left-liberal we as well!
But I think what it shows more than anything is that I am a political tart. I don't "do" allegiance to any political party... Wherever I lay my (political) hat, that's my home.0 -
I still have no idea what Blair is actually advocating people DO about Brexit, but it does seem that whatever it is, it is not good news for Corbyn's Labour. That is worth the column inches.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
No doubt there's local variation. In say Thurrock or Thanet, support for Leave among Conservatives would be close to 100%, in Battersea or Twickenham, it would be far less.DavidL said:
The not so secret Tory weapon of loyalty.Sean_F said:
I think there is churn. Excluding don't knows, the Conservatives have shifted from about 62/38% Leave to 72/28%. There's a further element of Conservative voters who think that the decision to Leave was wrong, but aren't that bothered by it.DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable. I wonder if they conceal any meaningful churn? My impression is that Tories are now funnelling in behind the current leadership and supporting what is government policy. The Lib Dems, who have had some gains as a result, are more obviously focussed on remain than ever. Labour are, as usual, all over the place.
I suspect the key moments are now coming up. Once the Bill is passed and the Article 50 notice is actually served I suspect that the focus of the vast majority will move on to what kind of Brexit rather than should there be one.
The very long hiatus since June has therefore contributed to the apparent stability. Parties need to think not just about their current positioning but what their positioning will be then. To that extent I disagree with Professor Curtis although Labour should certainly be reflecting the concerns of remainers about the Single Market, for example.0 -
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.Scott_P said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!0 -
The way Trump is going great he'll do 3 or 28 years.0
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He was all over every media outlet yesterday and has huge coverage in all today's newspapers - including the front cover of the Guardian and the Express. Clearly, he presses some buttons. The media has not been forced to give the speech the attention it has. Newspapers and TV channels have chosen to do it. And they have done so because Blair is box office. I actually wish it were otherwise. I would prefer him to slip away into retirement as I think he does more harm than good - but if you actually read his speech, his clarity of thought stands in stark contrast to the current crop of politician on both sides of the Brexit divide.CarlottaVance said:
The front page of the Guardian is 'Blair's Brexit Speech Sparks Labour Fury'.....the only other front page he makes is the Express......so as was pointed out yesterday, this was all about Tony.......SouthamObserver said:
If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:
0 -
While the Tories & UKIP are hanging on to voters, Lab are losing them and the LibDems regaining them....DavidL said:
The not so secret Tory weapon of loyalty.Sean_F said:
I think there is churn. Excluding don't knows, the Conservatives have shifted from about 62/38% Leave to 72/28%. There's a further element of Conservative voters who think that the decision to Leave was wrong, but aren't that bothered by it.DavidL said:The stability of those figures is remarkable. I wonder if they conceal any meaningful churn? My impression is that Tories are now funnelling in behind the current leadership and supporting what is government policy. The Lib Dems, who have had some gains as a result, are more obviously focussed on remain than ever. Labour are, as usual, all over the place.
I suspect the key moments are now coming up. Once the Bill is passed and the Article 50 notice is actually served I suspect that the focus of the vast majority will move on to what kind of Brexit rather than should there be one.
The very long hiatus since June has therefore contributed to the apparent stability. Parties need to think not just about their current positioning but what their positioning will be then. To that extent I disagree with Professor Curtis although Labour should certainly be reflecting the concerns of remainers about the Single Market, for example.
Over the past 6 months - change in % Voted for party in GE2015
Feb 17
Con: 85 (-2)
Lab: 65 (-14)
LibD: 68 (+10)
UKIP: 75 (+3)0 -
Yes but modern economic trends, particularly clustering, is acerbating the trend. It has the critical mass built in in almost every area and the flow over from other areas helps too. As an example London is becoming one of Europe's biggest base in IT. Why? How? What happened to the dreams of the M4 corridor and Cambridge? It sucks up everything.Jonathan said:
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
.DavidL said:
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
Regions need to think how they respond. Back office? Specialisation? Educational support? Its not going to be easy, London is just such an exciting place for the ambitious to be in but it is not impossible. Amongst other things it needs politicians who can concentrate on what is needed.0 -
Very good. Despite myself I LOLed at that.ydoethur said:
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.Scott_P said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!0 -
Serious question. What happens if the veep takes power under that amendment and is himself then declared insane by the cabinet?rottenborough said:
8 years? He'll be lucky to do two. I suspect Mike Pence will use the 25th amendment to take power from a President who is clearly mad.rcs1000 said:
What odds will you offer me on the whole eight years?Pulpstar said:Re: America - Very very early days, but Trump still looks nailed on to serve a second term to me.
Would the Speaker of the House take over?
I am just thinking of some of Pence's more - ahem - interesting views on sexual orientation.0 -
Not sure that is true. When heavy industry and manufacturing dominated there was much more even distribution of wealth in the UK - and I think there were periods in the middle of the last century when places like Birmingham were actually wealthier per head than London was. The simple fact is that this country managed de-industrialisation very badly. That's made unforgiveable by the fact that we had North Sea oil as something that could have smoothed the way.Jonathan said:
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
The SNP are far from great David but at least they have Scotland's interests at heart, the London Tory and Labour cronies do not even pretend they do. London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland and skint or not our only chance is to get independance. Alternative is continual decline as London neglect us ever more. Whilst the opposition is just two London centred nonentity parties the SNP are not pushed and will end up just like Labour. With independence we could have real Scottish opposition parties.DavidL said:
.malcolmg said:CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
PS: For Carlotta it is seen as great news, she views it through the prism of her hatred for everything Scottish.
On the other hand if we had a real Scottish Tory party we could have nice human beings like yourself running it.
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
0 -
He was arguing that people might, when they see the actual deal, change their minds. An avenue or route should be made available for that to happen. He was not specific on what that should be apart from parliament should hold government to account for individual decisions around brexit.MarqueeMark said:
I still have no idea what Blair is actually advocating people DO about Brexit, but it does seem that whatever it is, it is not good news for Corbyn's Labour. That is worth the column inches.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:0 -
Bravoydoethur said:
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.Scott_P said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!0 -
You certainly caught me out there and I suspect others too.ydoethur said:
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.Scott_P said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!
0 -
Morning all
I've struggled to formulate my response to Blair's intervention because there's a lot in it which makes sense and with which I agree.
I don't regret voting LEAVE last June but I can't honestly say the thought I might have made a mistake hasn't occurred. Blair is right to point out the majority might not have made the right choice and that shouldn't worry anyone because majorities do sometimes get it wrong.
As I've argued on here before, the triggering of A50 ought to start the real national debate which is about the kind of country, society, economy and indeed people we want to be in the 2020s and beyond. Unfortunately and perhaps deliberately, six months of a slanging match before 23/6/16 has turned most people right off the idea of such of a debate.
I think the big votes of confidence in May and the Government represent, Corbyn notwithstanding, a weariness and a desire just to get on with normal life and not having to think about the big questions too hard. That is in my view a mistake.
I don't have a lot of confidence in the Three Stooges being able to negotiate their way out of a paper bag and, as I fear, in 2019, we start hearing there is no deal to be done, the anti-European quasi-jingoistic rhetoric will be ramped up to ensure it's everyone's patriotic duty to vote Conservative in 2020.
Going into the 2020s with an unsatisfactory non-deal, WTO rules and a legacy of ill-will may sound to some people like the dawn of a Golden Age for Global Britain - I'm less convinced.
The problem is the negotiators are getting no coherent feedback - even now there is a cacophony of differing views on issues from Single Market access to immigration and it remains to be seen whether the "I support the Government no matter what" brigade remains as dominant as it seems at present. May's great plan at the beginning of the year was a series of half-considered platitudes which will unravel pretty quickly once we all get into the detail.0 -
Pence is installed as President and immediately appoints his own veep (subject to vote in both Houses) iirc. New guy could then use 25th to begin process again.ydoethur said:
Serious question. What happens if the veep takes power under that amendment and is himself then declared insane By the cabinet?rottenborough said:
8 years? He'll be lucky to do two. I suspect Mike Pence will use the 25th amendment to take power from a President who is clearly mad.rcs1000 said:
What odds will you offer me on the whole eight years?Pulpstar said:Re: America - Very very early days, but Trump still looks nailed on to serve a second term to me.
Would the Speaker of the House take over?
I am just thinking of some of Pence's more - ahem - interesting views on sexual orientation.0 -
Cambridge is doing very well - it has the university and very easy access to London. ARM - even though it has been bought out by SoftBank - is in the midst of a major expansion. The M4 corridor is fine too. Anywhere within an hour of London is doing OK. It's beyond that where the problems really start.DavidL said:
Yes but modern economic trends, particularly clustering, is acerbating the trend. It has the critical mass built in in almost every area and the flow over from other areas helps too. As an example London is becoming one of Europe's biggest base in IT. Why? How? What happened to the dreams of the M4 corridor and Cambridge? It sucks up everything.Jonathan said:
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
.DavidL said:
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
Regions need to think how they respond. Back office? Specialisation? Educational support? Its not going to be easy, London is just such an exciting place for the ambitious to be in but it is not impossible. Amongst other things it needs politicians who can concentrate on what is needed.
0 -
I can't be bothered myself, (too much money tied up on FR elections) but I suspect betting on Farage to be back in post by end of year is a good one.David_Evershed said:
You certainly caught me out there and I suspect others too.ydoethur said:
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.Scott_P said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!0 -
At last, a momentum tweet worth retweeting:
Momentum @PeoplesMomentum 2h2 hours ago
Is his name even Paul? #paulnutallfacts0 -
They do not send £9B to Scotland. They borrow shedloads of money and make us pay for a whack of it even though we did not ask or want to borrow it.CarlottaVance said:
So why do they send you £9 billion a year?malcolmg said:
London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland.DavidL said:malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
The movement of finance from Edinburgh southwards continues. It may have been inevitable in some respects but it has been accelerated by the threat of a second referendum. I really wish the SNP administration would get that an independent Scotland needs to be able to pay for itself and that their first priority is building a viable economy. Instead we are going to have higher taxes and yet more public sector crowding out paying wages that the private sector in most of Scotland struggle to match. We are all losers from this, even the SNP.
And as with the SNP, you conflate my dislike of the SNP with a dislike of Scotland.
The SNP is not Scotland.
Trying to hide behind the fact you do not like SNP does not cover the fact you are always thrilled at bad news from Scotland , that is despicable and highlights why Tories are hated due to their vile nastiness gloating at other people's misfortunes. You should be hanging your head in shame.0 -
Technical point. On Southern trains, London isn't an hour from London.0
-
So Europe saying they won't pay up for defence spending. I think it's time for both the US and UK to take a step back from NATO and watch Russian tanks roll through Eastern Europe. Maybe EU development spending or climate change spending will help those nations looking to have their borders properly defended.
At this stage I think Germany deserves a right royal fucking for their parasitical policies within NATO and the Eurozone. They are nothing but a leech within both and should either be made to pay up or be forced out.0 -
He is not saying that people generally should do anything. He argued that voters have the right to change their minds and that the government should not be given a free hand to negotiate a Brexit deal that nobody voted for. It was hardly earth-shattering stuff.MarqueeMark said:
I still have no idea what Blair is actually advocating people DO about Brexit, but it does seem that whatever it is, it is not good news for Corbyn's Labour. That is worth the column inches.SouthamObserver said:
Hmmm - when so many column inches and so much air time has been devoted to Blair over the last 24 hours he is clearly not delusional to believe that people are still interested in what he has to say. If you want to make an egomaniac feel important make him the lead story. The fact is that 10 years since he left the scene, he is still top box office. Only one other post-war PM has had the same affect.CarlottaVance said:
When a multi-millionaire PR man for foreign dictators comes hectoring us about the result of the biggest election our country has held, and does so in the name of liberal democracy, surreal is certainly one description. Bonkers, self-delusional egomania is another.PlatoSaid said:
0 -
Titter.....very good.....ydoethur said:
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!0 -
My guess it was Pence who insisted Michael Flynn be sacked and is the power behind the throne.rottenborough said:
8 years? He'll be lucky to do two. I suspect Mike Pence will use the 25th amendment to take power from a President who is clearly mad.rcs1000 said:
What odds will you offer me on the whole eight years?Pulpstar said:Re: America - Very very early days, but Trump still looks nailed on to serve a second term to me.
Pence the quiet assassin. Watch your back Trump.0 -
Spot on - we will be totally unaffected when Russian tanks roll through eastern Europe and/or the German economy falls off a cliff.MaxPB said:So Europe saying they won't pay up for defence spending. I think it's time for both the US and UK to take a step back from it and watch Russian tanks roll through Eastern Europe. Maybe EU development spending or climate change spending will help those nations looking to have their borders properly defended.
At this stage I think Germany deserves a right royal fucking for their parasitical policies within NATO and the Eurozone. They are nothing but a leech within both and should either be made to pay up or be forced out.0 -
Max PB: are you real?0
-
That's the real trick though isn't it Malcolm? As long as the SNP are genuinely seen to be acting in Scotland's interests and telling the UK government (which is often perceived as anti-Scottish see e.g. May's decision to quit the single market) where they get off, 40% of the population will always support them and they will hold the reigns of power in office or (rarely) out of office.malcolmg said:
The SNP are far from great David but at least they have Scotland's interests at heart, the London Tory and Labour cronies do not even pretend they do. London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland and skint or not our only chance is to get independance. Alternative is continual decline as London neglect us ever more. Whilst the opposition is just two London centred nonentity parties the SNP are not pushed and will end up just like Labour. With independence we could have real Scottish opposition parties.
The risk with Sturgeon's current strategy is that she may come to be seen to be obsessed with independence which for most Scots is actually a secondary issue (yes the SNP do get this - that's why their campaign for independence was not the real issues surrounding independence but on schools'n'hospitals). If that is come to be seen as running counter to Scotland's interests, which it may come to be in time, then the SNP will come to pay a heavy price electorally.
If however they can successfully argue that only independence can resolve these issues then they should win a second referendum. The risk with that strategy is - well, see that bus with £350 million a week written on it.
Personally I would be surprised if there were another referendum within ten years. I also think it would only be winnable if EU membership and a new relationship with the UK was agreed in advance, and I'm doubtful if that will happen given the EU's notorious reluctance to let common sense trump treaty changes.
However, if Brexit is a total dog's dinner and the EU's leaders for once in their miserable and futile existence do something intelligent, I could easily be wrong about that0 -
Great find, Scots were travelling the world even in those days and educating the locals on fine cuisine and fashion accessories.Verulamius said:malcolmg will be interested in this story about an archeological turnip supper.
http://www.archaeology.org/news/5308-170214-siberia-turnip-pot0 -
It should be possible to attract talented people out of London. London's a good place to live if you're rich, but I don't see the appeal otherwise.DavidL said:
Yes but modern economic trends, particularly clustering, is acerbating the trend. It has the critical mass built in in almost every area and the flow over from other areas helps too. As an example London is becoming one of Europe's biggest base in IT. Why? How? What happened to the dreams of the M4 corridor and Cambridge? It sucks up everything.Jonathan said:
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
.DavidL said:
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
Regions need to think how they respond. Back office? Specialisation? Educational support? Its not going to be easy, London is just such an exciting place for the ambitious to be in but it is not impossible. Amongst other things it needs politicians who can concentrate on what is needed.0 -
That should be a thread header.......rcs1000 said:
Bravoydoethur said:
I feel extremely sorry for the voters of Stoke on Trent Central. They are being asked to vote for a party led by a serial fanatsist and liar who appears to be unaware of where he was or what he was doing at key times, who are trying to appeal to the northern working class despite being the party of wealthy Londoners, who appear to be searching for a new role in the aftermath of Brexit, and whose leader is only in place because of a massive cock-up during the brief and inglorious tenure of some woman nobody had ever heard of leading to a massive rise in sexism and retreat to a badly defined and unworkable emotional comfort zone in the party.Scott_P said:
And if that wasn't bad enough, the alternative is Paul Nuttall!0 -
The M4 corridor is largely due to American companies. Fly to Heathrow and turn left along the M4. It would be interesting to plot any rise and fall against Concorde making it just that bit easier for the big cheeses to visit.SouthamObserver said:
Cambridge is doing very well - it has the university and very easy access to London. ARM - even though it has been bought out by SoftBank - is in the midst of a major expansion. The M4 corridor is fine too. Anywhere within an hour of London is doing OK. It's beyond that where the problems really start.DavidL said:
Yes but modern economic trends, particularly clustering, is acerbating the trend. It has the critical mass built in in almost every area and the flow over from other areas helps too. As an example London is becoming one of Europe's biggest base in IT. Why? How? What happened to the dreams of the M4 corridor and Cambridge? It sucks up everything.Jonathan said:
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
.DavidL said:
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
Regions need to think how they respond. Back office? Specialisation? Educational support? Its not going to be easy, London is just such an exciting place for the ambitious to be in but it is not impossible. Amongst other things it needs politicians who can concentrate on what is needed.0 -
Yep the Germany economy is profiting from a below parity exchange rate which is boosting German exports while causing significant pain to other EU economies.theakes said:Max PB: are you real?
As for NATO the agreement has for decades been 2% of GDP - and Germany is spending nothing like that....
0 -
So essentially you are saying we (the US and those that hit the target) simply have to pay for German defence forever and ever because German's won't?SouthamObserver said:
Spot on - we will be totally unaffected when Russian tanks roll through eastern Europe and/or the German economy falls off a cliff.MaxPB said:So Europe saying they won't pay up for defence spending. I think it's time for both the US and UK to take a step back from it and watch Russian tanks roll through Eastern Europe. Maybe EU development spending or climate change spending will help those nations looking to have their borders properly defended.
At this stage I think Germany deserves a right royal fucking for their parasitical policies within NATO and the Eurozone. They are nothing but a leech within both and should either be made to pay up or be forced out.
Do you not think the Germans are taking the piss?0 -
Max, you are as deluded as ever, we could not beat a rug. Hundreds of Generals and Admirals and a few broken boats etc will not do against anyone. Loading dubious stuff on pensions and other stuff to try to pretend we meet the 2% does not cut teh mustard. We are only just above Dad's army level.MaxPB said:So Europe saying they won't pay up for defence spending. I think it's time for both the US and UK to take a step back from NATO and watch Russian tanks roll through Eastern Europe. Maybe EU development spending or climate change spending will help those nations looking to have their borders properly defended.
At this stage I think Germany deserves a right royal fucking for their parasitical policies within NATO and the Eurozone. They are nothing but a leech within both and should either be made to pay up or be forced out.0 -
The people who should be hanging their heads in shame are the SNP who are creating business uncertainty by going on about a second Indyref so shortly after the 'once in a generation' previous one.malcolmg said:
They do not send £9B to Scotland. They borrow shedloads of money and make us pay for a whack of it even though we did not ask or want to borrow it.CarlottaVance said:
So why do they send you £9 billion a year?malcolmg said:
London does not give two hoots what is happening in Scotland.DavidL said:malcolmg said:
Carlotta salivating at job losses in Scotland, you cannot beat a unionist, we are in this together. Is it any wonder Tories are hated and vilified in Scotland, even the pretendy Scottish ones.CarlottaVance said:
Today's big hoo-ha is BAe Systems scaling back investment on the Clyde - Westminster LIES! they scream.MonikerDiCanio said:
Or is it a business weighing risks - whats the point of sinking a fortune of permanent infrastructure into the shipyards of a country whose government may shortly be campaigning for you to lose most of your future orders?
What we don't need is continuing uncertainty about our trading relationship with by far our largest customer. This is exacerbated by Brexit because if rUK are no longer in the Single Market we have a clear choice as to which single market we want to be in and the answer is obvious. We need to be in the one we do 4x more business with.
And as with the SNP, you conflate my dislike of the SNP with a dislike of Scotland.
The SNP is not Scotland.
Trying to hide behind the fact you do not like SNP does not cover the fact you are always thrilled at bad news from Scotland , that is despicable and highlights why Tories are hated due to their vile nastiness gloating at other people's misfortunes. You should be hanging your head in shame.
What shipbuilder in its right mind is going to invest in infrastructure in a country that could lose the vast majority of its contracts in a couple of years?0 -
You are suggesting Pence would be likely to appoint someone who would declare him insane? I don't think he's that crazy.rottenborough said:
Pence is installed as President and immediately appoints his own veep (subject to vote in both Houses) iirc. New guy could then use 25th to begin process again.ydoethur said:
Serious question. What happens if the veep takes power under that amendment and is himself then declared insane By the cabinet?rottenborough said:
8 years? He'll be lucky to do two. I suspect Mike Pence will use the 25th amendment to take power from a President who is clearly mad.rcs1000 said:
What odds will you offer me on the whole eight years?Pulpstar said:Re: America - Very very early days, but Trump still looks nailed on to serve a second term to me.
Would the Speaker of the House take over?
I am just thinking of some of Pence's more - ahem - interesting views on sexual orientation.
More to the point, I think you will find that if the president is declared insane the VP becomes acting president - so that provision doesn't actually apply.0 -
Mr Observer,
He's arguing that there should be scope for another referendum if voters dislike the way things are going.
That's why the Labour Party and Tories offered referendums in the 70s, 80s, 90s and the 00s. isn't it?0 -
We have some very good regional universities. They could and should be excellent hubs. That's basically what happened at Cambridge. We need to be competing at a global level for top scientific and engineering talent, and giving them the resources to thrive. We also need to recognise when we are on to something. Graphene was isolated in Manchester by two foreign-born academics. It could have been the start of something huge for the city and the region, but instead others have taken the lead.Sean_F said:
It should be possible to attract talented people out of London. London's a good place to live if you're rich, but I don't see the appeal otherwise.DavidL said:
Yes but modern economic trends, particularly clustering, is acerbating the trend. It has the critical mass built in in almost every area and the flow over from other areas helps too. As an example London is becoming one of Europe's biggest base in IT. Why? How? What happened to the dreams of the M4 corridor and Cambridge? It sucks up everything.Jonathan said:
London has always been the dominant city the UK. I suspect it always will be..DavidL said:
Putting aside the scurrilous accusation of being nice I think you will find us less far apart than you think.malcolmg said:
.DavidL said:
The domination of London in the UK is unhealthy not just for Scotland but for most of England. We need much stronger regional voices to drive growth away from London. Osborne's "northern powerhouse" was one such idea but in Scotland we have a government which has a far broader range of tools at its disposal than anything contemplated there. We need all our political parties to be focussed on the local, the needs of those they represent and on the need to compete in a challenging world. If our political class would just focus on the day job I think that there is much that could be done.
Regions need to think how they respond. Back office? Specialisation? Educational support? Its not going to be easy, London is just such an exciting place for the ambitious to be in but it is not impossible. Amongst other things it needs politicians who can concentrate on what is needed.
0 -
Actually the agreement has been in place for 11 years - since 2006. So although I agree that many European countries are taking the piss, it is hardly fair to say it has been in place for decades.eek said:
Yep the Germany economy is profiting from a below parity exchange rate which is boosting German exports while causing significant pain to other EU economies.theakes said:Max PB: are you real?
As for NATO the agreement has for decades been 2% of GDP - and Germany is spending nothing like that....0
This discussion has been closed.