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BBC reporter nutter who was shot in Louvre was Egyptian, arrived from Dubai, and on a tourist visa.
5..4..3..2..1..Trumpster tweets about extreme vetting*.
*Probably miss the bit out about how his extreme vetting wouldn't have stopped this.0 -
So isn't Jaw Jaw better than War War?Alanbrooke said:
would that be the same magnificent architecture Mrs Merkels relations blasted the shit out of ?Roger said:Isn't it depressing when you see the wonderful streets and harbour at Valletta that we'll soon be leaving the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world soon to be replaced by the dystopian nightmare of Trump/ Faragism that has been forced on us by a pack of ill educated morons.
Most of Europe has moved on from those dark days.0 -
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I was just trying to explain the lost years between Oxford Rd's 'Haze of Dope" and the simultaneous membership of 4 Conservative Clubs in Ludlow.Alanbrooke said:
Im Manchester RogerRoger said:
OT. I notice Milo Yiannopoulos is an ex student of your esteemed university and there's me thinking they were all lefty comediansAlanbrooke said:
would that be the same magnificent architecture Mrs Merkels relations blasted the shit out of ?Roger said:Isn't it depressing when you see the wonderful streets and harbour at Valletta that we'll soon be leaving the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world soon to be replaced by the dystopian nightmare of Trump/ Faragism that has been forced on us by a pack of ill educated morons.
street cred
I think Milos Yiannopoulos might be the missing link0 -
it's been on the brink for 8 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Guardian reporting tonight that Greece is on the brinkwasd said:
Right now I suspect Merkel's financial worries begin and end with Greece.peter_from_putney said:
As well indeed she might ..... it will be Germany largely picking up the tab for the giant hole left after Britain has departed the EU. (There's no one else with the dough.)Big_G_NorthWales said:The Heads of States photo in Malta today shows just how the EU is a 'boys club' - Just three female Heads of States - Theresa May, Angela Merkel, and Beata Szydio of Poland.
Angela Merkel looked very down and worried.0 -
Indeed. These reports contradict other suggestions that Labour is increasingly confident re- Stoke.Dixie said:
Firstly, I don't think they should be worried. Secondly, when a party gives up campaigning, the voters give up on the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well how will this effect the betting on Stoke.
The Guardian reporting just now that the Labour leadership are in talks with the Greens and Lib Dems to dial down their campaigns to keep UKIP out
They must be seriously worried0 -
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They've tried to tap me for £5 to fund the campaign.justin124 said:
Indeed. These reports contradict other suggestions that Labour is increasingly confident re- Stoke.Dixie said:
Firstly, I don't think they should be worried. Secondly, when a party gives up campaigning, the voters give up on the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well how will this effect the betting on Stoke.
The Guardian reporting just now that the Labour leadership are in talks with the Greens and Lib Dems to dial down their campaigns to keep UKIP out
They must be seriously worried0 -
The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!0
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But they have now taken a firm step forward . . .nunu said:
it's been on the brink for 8 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Guardian reporting tonight that Greece is on the brinkwasd said:
Right now I suspect Merkel's financial worries begin and end with Greece.peter_from_putney said:
As well indeed she might ..... it will be Germany largely picking up the tab for the giant hole left after Britain has departed the EU. (There's no one else with the dough.)Big_G_NorthWales said:The Heads of States photo in Malta today shows just how the EU is a 'boys club' - Just three female Heads of States - Theresa May, Angela Merkel, and Beata Szydio of Poland.
Angela Merkel looked very down and worried.0 -
Do you draw any conclusion from that? I would not have thought Labour has any problem with funding its campaign!SandyRentool said:
They've tried to tap me for £5 to fund the campaign.justin124 said:
Indeed. These reports contradict other suggestions that Labour is increasingly confident re- Stoke.Dixie said:
Firstly, I don't think they should be worried. Secondly, when a party gives up campaigning, the voters give up on the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well how will this effect the betting on Stoke.
The Guardian reporting just now that the Labour leadership are in talks with the Greens and Lib Dems to dial down their campaigns to keep UKIP out
They must be seriously worried0 -
But this is the bible of the left, the Guardian reporting Greece on the brinknunu said:
it's been on the brink for 8 years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Guardian reporting tonight that Greece is on the brinkwasd said:
Right now I suspect Merkel's financial worries begin and end with Greece.peter_from_putney said:
As well indeed she might ..... it will be Germany largely picking up the tab for the giant hole left after Britain has departed the EU. (There's no one else with the dough.)Big_G_NorthWales said:The Heads of States photo in Malta today shows just how the EU is a 'boys club' - Just three female Heads of States - Theresa May, Angela Merkel, and Beata Szydio of Poland.
Angela Merkel looked very down and worried.0 -
A poor investment by the Chinese.Scott_P said:0 -
Not at all.Roger said:Isn't it depressing when you see the wonderful streets and harbour at Valletta that we'll soon be leaving the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world soon to be replaced by the dystopian nightmare of Trump/ Faragism that has been forced on us by a pack of ill educated morons.
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Nah. It is the usual squeeze on the tactical voters, UKIP are doing it too.justin124 said:
Indeed. These reports contradict other suggestions that Labour is increasingly confident re- Stoke.Dixie said:
Firstly, I don't think they should be worried. Secondly, when a party gives up campaigning, the voters give up on the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well how will this effect the betting on Stoke.
The Guardian reporting just now that the Labour leadership are in talks with the Greens and Lib Dems to dial down their campaigns to keep UKIP out
They must be seriously worried
"Only party X can stop party Y here" Its the oldest game in town.-1 -
The UK regulations on insurance are horrific - the amount of stuff I have to do to recommend a product or invite renewal of one - when 9 times out of ten all the customer wants is the cheapest.matt said:
DF is undoubtedly a PITA and needs trimming in parts but to get rid of it all would be unwise. I can guess what the conclusions of the review will be.FrancisUrquhart said:US President Donald Trump has taken his first step to try to scale back US financial services regulations.
He signed an executive order to review the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial regulations, which some people on Wall Street say are overly-restrictive.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38858009
Edit: he doesn't like Basel various either. Again, they're flawed and Basel IV has the risk of driving tradition banks out of the debt business but I don't believe that rigour is where he's coming from. It's evil foreigners stuff at its basest.
Come May, Another half page has to be added telling cutomers how much they paid last year and that they may be able to get a cheaper policy if they shop around.0 -
An extra fiver never goes amiss.justin124 said:
Do you draw any conclusion from that? I would not have thought Labour has any problem with funding its campaign!SandyRentool said:
They've tried to tap me for £5 to fund the campaign.justin124 said:
Indeed. These reports contradict other suggestions that Labour is increasingly confident re- Stoke.Dixie said:
Firstly, I don't think they should be worried. Secondly, when a party gives up campaigning, the voters give up on the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well how will this effect the betting on Stoke.
The Guardian reporting just now that the Labour leadership are in talks with the Greens and Lib Dems to dial down their campaigns to keep UKIP out
They must be seriously worried
I recall a funny Jon Stewart bit about campaign emails he was sent, having signed up to all of them, with some Democrat ones being almost apocalyptically dire, about the end is nigh almost, and then concluding with the amount it asked for to apparently bring hope...$50 -
But England & Wales itself isn't homogenous. In the South ex.London Labour does not have far it can fall and indeed polling implies it is near enough static.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
The details of Yougov polling imply a Lab-Con swing of about 5-6% in the North, though it should be cautioned part of this swing is a move of a couple of percent Labour-Don't Know. Those Don't Knows may still turn out for Labour when push comes to shove.0 -
Another US poll with a majority against the travel ban:
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/8276231108243046420 -
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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Perhaps it'll give her a boost in Cardiff?Big_G_NorthWales said:Well Theresa May received resounding cheers on a walkabout today in Malta will do no harm to the ratings
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1402631/People-Cardiff-boo-Theresa-calling-racist-Cardiff.html0 -
So that is two-allSouthamObserver said:Another US poll with a majority against the travel ban:
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/827623110824304642
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I just can't see how they will lose an northern city. Even in the doldrums.justin124 said:
Indeed. These reports contradict other suggestions that Labour is increasingly confident re- Stoke.Dixie said:
Firstly, I don't think they should be worried. Secondly, when a party gives up campaigning, the voters give up on the party.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well how will this effect the betting on Stoke.
The Guardian reporting just now that the Labour leadership are in talks with the Greens and Lib Dems to dial down their campaigns to keep UKIP out
They must be seriously worried0 -
Ye can tak the boy oot o' Glasgow..Scott_P said:0 -
52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post0 -
Labour will hold both seats, and Corbyn will lead the party to a big defeat.Dixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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I see. Should a fun election thoughrcs1000 said:
Geert is going to win, in that the PVV will top the polls in the Netherlands.Dixie said:
Geert's got more change than Le Pen. In the voice of Kevin Keegan, "I would love it, love it if Geert wins"wasd said:
In the next three months she's likely to have to deal with Greece, a British A50, a second round Le Pen runoff and the Dutch elections/Geert Wilders.peter_from_putney said:
Oh Crikey - yes, of course, I'd forgotten that the next Greek crisis is but a few weeks away.wasd said:
Right now I suspect Merkel's financial worries begin and end with Greece.peter_from_putney said:
As well indeed she might ..... it will be Germany largely picking up the tab for the giant hole left after Britain has departed the EU. (There's no one else with the dough.)Big_G_NorthWales said:The Heads of States photo in Malta today shows just how the EU is a 'boys club' - Just three female Heads of States - Theresa May, Angela Merkel, and Beata Szydio of Poland.
Angela Merkel looked very down and worried.
And that's before whatever black swans are caused by Trump/Russia/Fundies/NeoNazis.
But the reason they top the polls is because its an insanely fragmented political landscape in the Netherlands. There are two parties (the CDA and the VVD) that occupy the space taken by Cameron's Conservatives. There are two parties - in parliament - that occupy the space that is taken by the Green Party (the Ecology Party and the The Party of the Animals).
The PVV will get approximately 30 seats at the General Election, which is c. 20% of the vote. But who will they ally with?0 -
I wonder what the turnout will be in Copeland. I will be very surprised if it approaches the 82% seen at the Darlington by election in March 1983! That proved to be higher than at the 1979 and 1983 General Elections in the same seat.0
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52% want Obama back - that is an unexpected low score surely and no doubt of that 52% 40% want him impeachedHYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post0 -
The 40% are in the wrong places, West Coast, Chicago, New York City, Massachusetts, and university towns.HYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post0 -
that's my feeling. But...you just never know.Sean_F said:
Labour will hold both seats, and Corbyn will lead the party to a big defeat.Dixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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Not really given he got 51% in 2012 and 53% in 2008, had Obama been able to stand for a third term he would almost certainly have been re-electedBig_G_NorthWales said:
52% want Obama back - that is an unexpected low score surely and no doubt of that 52% 40% want him impeachedHYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post0 -
For now, if the Democrats take the House in 2018 though the pressure will build a little more thoughSean_F said:
The 40% are in the wrong places, West Coast, Chicago, New York City, Massachusetts, and university towns.HYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post0 -
I think it'll be closer to 29%...justin124 said:I wonder what the turnout will be in Copeland. I will be very surprised if it approaches the 82% seen at the Darlington by election in March 1983! That proved to be higher than at the 1979 and 1983 General Elections in the same seat.
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Postal votes at this time of year could be importantHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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Difficult one but on balance probably deservedTheuniondivvie said:PB brain matter all over the shop.
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/8276337641760112690 -
Better to give it to both sides of the table thoughBig_G_NorthWales said:
Difficult one but on balance probably deservedTheuniondivvie said:PB brain matter all over the shop.
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/8276337641760112690 -
AgreedTheWhiteRabbit said:
Better to give it to both sides of the table thoughBig_G_NorthWales said:
Difficult one but on balance probably deservedTheuniondivvie said:PB brain matter all over the shop.
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/8276337641760112690 -
In a marginal seat it should approach 60% given the high profile campaign.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I think it'll be closer to 29%...justin124 said:I wonder what the turnout will be in Copeland. I will be very surprised if it approaches the 82% seen at the Darlington by election in March 1983! That proved to be higher than at the 1979 and 1983 General Elections in the same seat.
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Yes and also how far the Tories can squeeze the UKIP voteBig_G_NorthWales said:
Postal votes at this time of year could be importantHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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Liberal elite, media out of touch, snowflakes, *CLAPS*RobD said:
So that is two-allSouthamObserver said:Another US poll with a majority against the travel ban:
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/827623110824304642
Did I get a full house?0 -
From the coverage you wouldn't have suspected it was anywhere close to how balanced it actually is.not_on_fire said:
Liberal elite, media out of touch, snowflakes, *CLAPS*RobD said:
So that is two-allSouthamObserver said:Another US poll with a majority against the travel ban:
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/827623110824304642
Did I get a full house?0 -
Patronising git.peter_from_putney said:I wonder how much the average British voter really knows about the supposedly warm, eco-friendly Green Party? Whether in fact they are actually closest to the Communists.
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I don't want to sound like Big_G but Theresa May really does look isolated if not a little sad trying to boost her importance as an intermediary. When she offered to be a link to the White House she was told by one leader that she wasn't needed 'as they had Twitter'!0
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Turnout at the GE was 63.8%.justin124 said:
In a marginal seat it should approach 60% given the high profile campaign.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I think it'll be closer to 29%...justin124 said:I wonder what the turnout will be in Copeland. I will be very surprised if it approaches the 82% seen at the Darlington by election in March 1983! That proved to be higher than at the 1979 and 1983 General Elections in the same seat.
Realistically it isn't going to get near that.0 -
Which was quite frankly ridiculous.Roger said:I don't want to sound like Big_G but Theresa May really does look isolated if not a little sad trying to boost her importance as an intermediary. When she offered to be a link to the White House she was told by one leader that she wasn't needed 'as they had Twitter'!
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The would-be Green councillor explained to me how he wanted a system of state surveillance, not to eradicate poverty, but to ensure your recycling was done properly.Recidivist said:
Patronising git.peter_from_putney said:I wonder how much the average British voter really knows about the supposedly warm, eco-friendly Green Party? Whether in fact they are actually closest to the Communists.
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60% would be the highest turnout since Winchester in 97, which was just a re-run.brokenwheel said:
Turnout at the GE was 63.8%.justin124 said:
In a marginal seat it should approach 60% given the high profile campaign.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I think it'll be closer to 29%...justin124 said:I wonder what the turnout will be in Copeland. I will be very surprised if it approaches the 82% seen at the Darlington by election in March 1983! That proved to be higher than at the 1979 and 1983 General Elections in the same seat.
Realistically it isn't going to get near that.
The historical average is ~40%0 -
LibDem Propaganda!Get well soon, Mike!0 -
Grim and depressing on some level, but on the other hand I am optimistic that the future will be an improvement on the dystopian faragist nightmare you are envisioning, and there is also the opportunity for the EU to get on with greater integration without the brits moaning about it all the time. Everyones a winner.Roger said:Isn't it depressing when you see the wonderful streets and harbour at Valletta that we'll soon be leaving the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world soon to be replaced by the dystopian nightmare of Trump/ Faragism that has been forced on us by a pack of ill educated morons.
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Roger - you really do not have any humour do you - it was a tongue in cheek commentRoger said:I don't want to sound like Big_G but Theresa May really does look isolated if not a little sad trying to boost her importance as an intermediary. When she offered to be a link to the White House she was told by one leader that she wasn't needed 'as they had Twitter'!
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great irony. He's a murdering c***Big_G_NorthWales said:
Difficult one but on balance probably deservedTheuniondivvie said:PB brain matter all over the shop.
https://twitter.com/StephenNolan/status/8276337641760112690 -
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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I wouldn't engage. We must just let the grieving process take its course.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Roger - you really do not have any humour do you - it was a tongue in cheek commentRoger said:I don't want to sound like Big_G but Theresa May really does look isolated if not a little sad trying to boost her importance as an intermediary. When she offered to be a link to the White House she was told by one leader that she wasn't needed 'as they had Twitter'!
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Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIPDixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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Labour, with the Unions behind them are so strong. Even under Corbyn they will remain the 2nd party and will bounce back under a new leader. Don't forget that Corbyn is no worse off than Tories were versus Blair. We were told then that Tories were finished. You can't knock off the big 2. Unions and the Rich will see to that. Labour needs to lose Wales to Plaid or the Midlands cities to Tories to really go into decline. That needs a party to fill the gap. Not happening. UKIP are shot. Libs are too small country wide. Plaid are amateurs, as are Greens.brokenwheel said:
But England & Wales itself isn't homogenous. In the South ex.London Labour does not have far it can fall and indeed polling implies it is near enough static.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
The details of Yougov polling imply a Lab-Con swing of about 5-6% in the North, though it should be cautioned part of this swing is a move of a couple of percent Labour-Don't Know. Those Don't Knows may still turn out for Labour when push comes to shove.0 -
Thanks for the update. A blue victory would be wonderful. Although not too much, we need to keep Jezza. A unlikely UKIP victory in Stoke would be great satisfaction as it means Labour have a competitor in Northern cities.HYUFD said:
Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIPDixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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I do hope this doesn't sound snide.Roger said:Isn't it depressing when you see the wonderful streets and harbour at Valletta that we'll soon be leaving the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world soon to be replaced by the dystopian nightmare of Trump/ Faragism that has been forced on us by a pack of ill educated morons.
It seems to me that the operative phrase there is "the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world".
A large section of the UK's population have zero elegance and sophistication in their lives. That's enough reason for the EU to look like a club for wealthy people who care nothing for the lower orders.
And the reaction to the Leave vote added a great deal of weight to that assessment - elegance and sophistication resentful that the lower orders rejected their lovely club.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Plus Switzerland has plenty of elegance and sophistication outside the EU, the two are not mutually exclusiveAnneJGP said:
I do hope this doesn't sound snide.Roger said:Isn't it depressing when you see the wonderful streets and harbour at Valletta that we'll soon be leaving the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world soon to be replaced by the dystopian nightmare of Trump/ Faragism that has been forced on us by a pack of ill educated morons.
It seems to me that the operative phrase there is "the most elegant and sophisticated club in the world".
A large section of the UK's population have zero elegance and sophistication in their lives. That's enough reason for the EU to look like a club for wealthy people who care nothing for the lower orders.
And the reaction to the Leave vote added a great deal of weight to that assessment - elegance and sophistication resentful that the lower orders rejected their lovely club.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Well, quite.rcs1000 said:Geert is going to win, in that the PVV will top the polls in the Netherlands.
But the reason they top the polls is because its an insanely fragmented political landscape in the Netherlands. There are two parties (the CDA and the VVD) that occupy the space taken by Cameron's Conservatives. There are two parties - in parliament - that occupy the space that is taken by the Green Party (the Ecology Party and the The Party of the Animals).
The PVV will get approximately 30 seats at the General Election, which is c. 20% of the vote. But who will they ally with?
FPTP - set up the coalitions before the election, so that voters have a real choice.0 -
I think Corbyn will survive even if he loses both by elections, his supporters will blame any defeat on Brexit and non Corbynista candidatesDixie said:
Thanks for the update. A blue victory would be wonderful. Although not too much, we need to keep Jezza. A unlikely UKIP victory in Stoke would be great satisfaction as it means Labour have a competitor in Northern cities.HYUFD said:
Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIPDixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
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FPTP truly is the best voting system known to man.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, quite.rcs1000 said:Geert is going to win, in that the PVV will top the polls in the Netherlands.
But the reason they top the polls is because its an insanely fragmented political landscape in the Netherlands. There are two parties (the CDA and the VVD) that occupy the space taken by Cameron's Conservatives. There are two parties - in parliament - that occupy the space that is taken by the Green Party (the Ecology Party and the The Party of the Animals).
The PVV will get approximately 30 seats at the General Election, which is c. 20% of the vote. But who will they ally with?
FPTP - set up the coalitions before the election, so that voters have a real choice.
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Hmmmm... Equally, though, I am unlikely to have a candidate with my exact views, so I'm likely faced with one of four unpalatable options. At least in a pure PR system like the Netherlands I can choose someone with pretty much my exact views as a vote repository.Richard_Nabavi said:
Well, quite.rcs1000 said:Geert is going to win, in that the PVV will top the polls in the Netherlands.
But the reason they top the polls is because its an insanely fragmented political landscape in the Netherlands. There are two parties (the CDA and the VVD) that occupy the space taken by Cameron's Conservatives. There are two parties - in parliament - that occupy the space that is taken by the Green Party (the Ecology Party and the The Party of the Animals).
The PVV will get approximately 30 seats at the General Election, which is c. 20% of the vote. But who will they ally with?
FPTP - set up the coalitions before the election, so that voters have a real choice.0 -
excellent. And we need his successor to be McDonnell or Diane AbbotHYUFD said:
I think Corbyn will survive even if he loses both by elections, his supporters will blame any defeat on Brexit and non Corbynista candidatesDixie said:
Thanks for the update. A blue victory would be wonderful. Although not too much, we need to keep Jezza. A unlikely UKIP victory in Stoke would be great satisfaction as it means Labour have a competitor in Northern cities.HYUFD said:Dixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIP0 -
Not a bad idea, provided you could hold up a bit of plastic to the camera and ask MI5 'Which bloody bin does this stuff go in?'TheWhiteRabbit said:
The would-be Green councillor explained to me how he wanted a system of state surveillance, not to eradicate poverty, but to ensure your recycling was done properly.Recidivist said:
Patronising git.peter_from_putney said:I wonder how much the average British voter really knows about the supposedly warm, eco-friendly Green Party? Whether in fact they are actually closest to the Communists.
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Yes, exactly. It's a way of avoiding a decision - and then your chosen option either gets nowhere, or goes into coalition with the party you most hate.rcs1000 said:
Hmmmm... Equally, though, I am unlikely to have a candidate with my exact views, so I'm likely faced with one of four unpalatable options. At least in a pure PR system like the Netherlands I can choose someone with pretty much my exact views as a vote repository.
The point is, when it comes to selecting a government, there is no way of avoiding actually making a choice. PR is a way of pretending that you don't have to make a choice, and leaving it to politicians to decide after the election by haggling in smoke-free rooms.0 -
Most likely it would be pre 2020 anywayDixie said:
excellent. And we need his successor to be McDonnell or Diane AbbotHYUFD said:
I think Corbyn will survive even if he loses both by elections, his supporters will blame any defeat on Brexit and non Corbynista candidatesDixie said:
Thanks for the update. A blue victory would be wonderful. Although not too much, we need to keep Jezza. A unlikely UKIP victory in Stoke would be great satisfaction as it means Labour have a competitor in Northern cities.HYUFD said:Dixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIP0 -
I think he would, albeit with a Republican Senate and House.HYUFD said:
Not really given he got 51% in 2012 and 53% in 2008, had Obama been able to stand for a third term he would almost certainly have been re-electedBig_G_NorthWales said:
52% want Obama back - that is an unexpected low score surely and no doubt of that 52% 40% want him impeachedHYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post
Indeed, had Obama or Hillary won, the Republicans would be heading for enormous House and Senate leads in 2018.0 -
Jezza looking unlikely to survive. Hope he can though,HYUFD said:
Most likely it would be pre 2020 anywayDixie said:
excellent. And we need his successor to be McDonnell or Diane AbbotHYUFD said:
I think Corbyn will survive even if he loses both by elections, his supporters will blame any defeat on Brexit and non Corbynista candidatesDixie said:
Thanks for the update. A blue victory would be wonderful. Although not too much, we need to keep Jezza. A unlikely UKIP victory in Stoke would be great satisfaction as it means Labour have a competitor in Northern cities.HYUFD said:Dixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIP0 -
@DPJHodges: Don't get why Brexiteers get so offended at the idea Britain is now globally isolated. That's the whole point isn't it?0
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Harriet Harman on Graham Norton now0
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The hypocrisy of our EU friends, especially Hollande, is delightful:
But an animated Hollande made clear his dismay at Trump’s behaviour. He said: “It cannot be accepted that there is, through a certain number of statements by the president of the United States, pressure on what Europe ought to be or what it should not be."
This is the same President Hollande who is trying to tell the US what its visa policy should be!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/03/eu-leaders-trump-may-attempt-act-bridge-malta-summit0 -
Yes which is why ironically the best thing for the Democratic Party as a whole, beyond the Presidency, was to lose the White HouseSean_F said:
I think he would, albeit with a Republican Senate and House.HYUFD said:
Not really given he got 51% in 2012 and 53% in 2008, had Obama been able to stand for a third term he would almost certainly have been re-electedBig_G_NorthWales said:
52% want Obama back - that is an unexpected low score surely and no doubt of that 52% 40% want him impeachedHYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post
Indeed, had Obama or Hillary won, the Republicans would be heading for enormous House and Senate leads in 2018.0 -
Labour moved to 1.89 in Stoke w UKIP out to 2.3... is this because of the possibility of a progressive alliance do we think?
Such an Alliance would mean the Lib Dems have no hope, would the Tories lay down in response?0 -
Giving his landslide reelection by the membership last September he is not going anywhere soonDixie said:
Jezza looking unlikely to survive. Hope he can though,HYUFD said:
Most likely it would be pre 2020 anywayDixie said:
excellent. And we need his successor to be McDonnell or Diane AbbotHYUFD said:
I think Corbyn will survive even if he loses both by elections, his supporters will blame any defeat on Brexit and non Corbynista candidatesDixie said:
Thanks for the update. A blue victory would be wonderful. Although not too much, we need to keep Jezza. A unlikely UKIP victory in Stoke would be great satisfaction as it means Labour have a competitor in Northern cities.HYUFD said:Dixie said:
Very interesting. Wonder if Libs will get a surge? That may well help Blues oop norfHYUFD said:
Having phoned in Copeland it will be very tight, turnout will be keyDixie said:
Interesting. I've never felt that Labour will lose either by-election. You may be right and Copeland can turn blue.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
Not too much sign of it so far but would certainly help the Tories yes if it comes from Labour, especially if the blues also get switchers from UKIP0 -
The only question, really, is where the coalition is formed. And I think the idea that one is somehow inherently superior at representing the interests of the citizens, and improving their welfare, is false.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, exactly. It's a way of avoiding a decision - and then your chosen option either gets nowhere, or goes into coalition with the party you most hate.rcs1000 said:
Hmmmm... Equally, though, I am unlikely to have a candidate with my exact views, so I'm likely faced with one of four unpalatable options. At least in a pure PR system like the Netherlands I can choose someone with pretty much my exact views as a vote repository.
The point is, when it comes to selecting a government, there is no way of avoiding actually making a choice. PR is a way of pretending that you don't have to make a choice, and leaving it to politicians to decide after the election by haggling in smoke-free rooms.0 -
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I disagree, I think it is inherently superior to sort out an agreed, and hopefully coherent, programme in advance.rcs1000 said:The only question, really, is where the coalition is formed. And I think the idea that one is somehow inherently superior at representing the interests of the citizens, and improving their welfare, is false.
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I am not very knowledgeable about voting systems, but it always seems to me quite false to pretend that a candidate was 'voted for' by >50% of the electorate when no measure at all of which candidate was everyone's second or third favourite is even attempted.rcs1000 said:
The only question, really, is where the coalition is formed. And I think the idea that one is somehow inherently superior at representing the interests of the citizens, and improving their welfare, is false.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, exactly. It's a way of avoiding a decision - and then your chosen option either gets nowhere, or goes into coalition with the party you most hate.rcs1000 said:
Hmmmm... Equally, though, I am unlikely to have a candidate with my exact views, so I'm likely faced with one of four unpalatable options. At least in a pure PR system like the Netherlands I can choose someone with pretty much my exact views as a vote repository.
The point is, when it comes to selecting a government, there is no way of avoiding actually making a choice. PR is a way of pretending that you don't have to make a choice, and leaving it to politicians to decide after the election by haggling in smoke-free rooms.
Someone could gain 100% of second preferences and be knocked out in the first round because s/he was no-one's first choice.
What they all seem to end up with is someone whom no-one much wants.
At least FPTP gives you someone that some people actually want.0 -
I don'tRichard_Nabavi said:
I disagree, I think it is inherently superior to sort out an agreed, and hopefully coherent, programme in advance.rcs1000 said:The only question, really, is where the coalition is formed. And I think the idea that one is somehow inherently superior at representing the interests of the citizens, and improving their welfare, is false.
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You do realise it's not May who looks stupid in that exchange don't you?Roger said:I don't want to sound like Big_G but Theresa May really does look isolated if not a little sad trying to boost her importance as an intermediary. When she offered to be a link to the White House she was told by one leader that she wasn't needed 'as they had Twitter'!
What sort of elegant and sophisticated club acts like silly spoilt children?
If you don't get it right the first time you can keep voting until you get it right.
As a fan of the EU you should love that.0 -
Graham norton going political tonight with Harriet harman and lefty actors on like bening/garfield.
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Yet you wrote that the political landscape in the Netherlands is 'insanely fragmented'. You could equally have cited Ireland. Or Italy. Or Israel. Or Germany, where they have the flipside problem that they can't get rid of the government.rcs1000 said:I don't
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Labour and the Tories have enormous structural advantages. All the same, displacement from the top two can take place. You're right that at the moment there is no existential crisis for Labour but their situation is graver than that of the Tories was under Hague and IDS all the same.Dixie said:
Labour, with the Unions behind them are so strong. Even under Corbyn they will remain the 2nd party and will bounce back under a new leader. Don't forget that Corbyn is no worse off than Tories were versus Blair. We were told then that Tories were finished. You can't knock off the big 2. Unions and the Rich will see to that. Labour needs to lose Wales to Plaid or the Midlands cities to Tories to really go into decline. That needs a party to fill the gap. Not happening. UKIP are shot. Libs are too small country wide. Plaid are amateurs, as are Greens.brokenwheel said:
But England & Wales itself isn't homogenous. In the South ex.London Labour does not have far it can fall and indeed polling implies it is near enough static.justin124 said:The latest Yougov poll implies a GB swing from Lab to Con of 3.7%. In Scotland, however, the swing is circa 9% - which would mean that the swing in England & Wales is just over 3%. To win Copeland the Tories need a swing of 3.25%!
The details of Yougov polling imply a Lab-Con swing of about 5-6% in the North, though it should be cautioned part of this swing is a move of a couple of percent Labour-Don't Know. Those Don't Knows may still turn out for Labour when push comes to shove.
The Tories were always going to come back at some point despite the 1993-2003 electoral failure for the simple reason that no other party at the time was capable to talking to the right-of-centre. That's not the case for Labour now: there are several parties who could peel chunks of Labour's vote. Only UKIP and the Lib Dems operate on a scale that could enable them to replace Labour and your analysis is right as to why they won't for the time being. Even so, the risk is there and if Labour continues to look irrelevant and if one of the other parties can get their act together, the opportunity is there.0 -
Wonder how ukip doing in getting message out about labour candidate calling leave supporters racist.isam said:Labour moved to 1.89 in Stoke w UKIP out to 2.3... is this because of the possibility of a progressive alliance do we think?
Such an Alliance would mean the Lib Dems have no hope, would the Tories lay down in response?0 -
There aren't many righty actors about now apart from Jon Voight, Clint Eastwood and Julian FellowesTykejohnno said:Graham norton going political tonight with Harriet harman and lefty actors on like bening/garfield.
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Elizabeth Denham, the Information Commissioner, said some time ago Data Protection Law was still likely to mirror GDPRScott_P said:0 -
It does.Alanbrooke said:
then youll find theyll say Brexit causes cimate changeSandyRentool said:Channel 4 News link the lettuce shortage to climate change.
Lovely.
Brexit --> Trump --> end of Paris Treaty ---> climate change
QED0 -
The resisters had better pause for long enough to ask why anybody would approve of what Trump is doing. If they can’t or won’t, they’ll find themselves resisting for eight years and not just four.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/protesters-call-supporters-of-trumps-travel-ban-idiots-and-bigots-theyre-wrong/2017/02/03/9c0de5ba-e99d-11e6-bf6f-301b6b443624_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.2ea1cdf69aa90 -
IMDb is the world's most popular and authoritative source for movie, TV and celebrity content. As part of our ongoing effort to continually evaluate and enhance the customer experience on IMDb, we have decided to disable IMDb's message boards on February 20, 2017. This includes the Private Message system. After in-depth discussion and examination, we have concluded that IMDb's message boards are no longer providing a positive, useful experience for the vast majority of our more than 250 million monthly users worldwide. The decision to retire a long-standing feature was made only after careful consideration and was based on data and traffic.
http://www.imdb.com/board/announcement0 -
The exact opposite actually.Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: Don't get why Brexiteers get so offended at the idea Britain is now globally isolated. That's the whole point isn't it?
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Definetly. He did well to be re-elcted in 2012 considering unemployment was like 7.5℅HYUFD said:
Not really given he got 51% in 2012 and 53% in 2008, had Obama been able to stand for a third term he would almost certainly have been re-electedBig_G_NorthWales said:
52% want Obama back - that is an unexpected low score surely and no doubt of that 52% 40% want him impeachedHYUFD said:52% of Americans want Obama back according to PPP, 43% glad Trump is in the White House but 40% want him impeached
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-barack-obama-president-white-house-poll-public-policy-polling-muslim-ban-obamacare-a7560256.html?cmpid=facebook-post0 -
