politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Angels and Fools. Cyclefree on Trump’s latest Executive Order
Comments
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Mr. F, I was aware there was a liberal (in a religious sense) movement to restore worship of the Olympian gods, but I was unaware there was a political connection.0
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....in a gold carriage...AlsoIndigo said:
I think you are overlooking how mind meltingly shallow Trump is, the state visit isn't about trade, he wants his picture taken with the Queen.SouthamObserver said:
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.AlsoIndigo said:
Quite likely.SouthamObserver said:
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.AlsoIndigo said:
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.0 -
lower than a rattlesnake's bellyGardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?0 -
If our government can be close to FDR, Kennedy, LBJ, and Nixon, I'm sure they'll tolerate Trump.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?0 -
http://cdn2.spectator.co.uk/files/2015/12/article-2323143-0449190A0000044D-724_634x433.jpgmalcolmg said:He wants to be fawned over , he is the Big Dog and he will have big demands, to which the UK will just say " how high should I jump your Trumpness"
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It's got nothing on this old chestnut... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215rottenborough said:Trump Petition hits 500,000 !!!
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You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.0 -
Yes, but he wriggled out of that. Despite his personal "beliefs" the USA will not torture.RobD said:
That's already happened what with Trump's comments on torture.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
May has an impossible task.
The sad logic of Brexit means she must ally herself (or at least bite her tongue) with the forces of hatred and reaction.
(Just as Corbyn's anti-imperialism sees him breaking bread with Hamas and the IRA).
Brexit really isn't worth the traducing of our values.0 -
@GermanyDiplo: FMs @sigmargabriel+#Koenders: Are determined to secure the rights of our citizens+confer with #EU partners on necessary steps. #travelban0
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How can a regime that puts a white supremacist on the National Security Council and which consistently lies be trusted?AlsoIndigo said:
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.
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Wonder if Merkel is just getting put through to the white house answer phone?Scott_P said:@GermanyDiplo: FMs @sigmargabriel+#Koenders: Are determined to secure the rights of our citizens+confer with #EU partners on necessary steps. #travelban
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Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
Depends who in AZ gets a vote in 2020.....surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.0 -
As an aside, the Executive Order is bad economics.
Donald Trump is demonstrating why he is a good real estate developer and a great candidate. Keep your opponents guessing, and off balance.
But the EO is bad economics. If you are Google, Intel, IBM, or any big technology company, that is used to bringing the world's best technologists to Silicon Valley, this will make you rethink where the best place to put a development centre is.
Because this wasn't: people from place [x] need to undergo extra screening before they can visit, which businesses can plan around.
It was: as of tomorrow, some of your employees on H1Bs or green cards who are out the country on business or holiday, can't come back.
I wonder if Google's announcement this weekend that all its Maps, Gmail, etc. development was being moved to Zurich was partly in response to this.
(This is, of course, a great opportunity for the UK, if we have the balls to take it.)0 -
Sky said it was ~250k Brits.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
If the Tories or UKIP gain Copeland or Stoke both petitions will swiftly be easily dismissed by MayRobD said:
It's got nothing on this old chestnut... https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215rottenborough said:Trump Petition hits 500,000 !!!
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Um, he is joking, so the laugh is on you and Mr Myers.Scott_P said:
Sean Spicer is an idiotGardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
https://twitter.com/rupertmyers/status/8256868102568960000 -
He now has the chance to come fifth in the first round of the presidential electionwilliamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
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The Petition was closed after 586930 signatures. Must have been the fastest 500k ever.
Were they scared that 1m would be reached by midnight ?0 -
Which are spread through far more varied states than the stale retreaded swing states.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
.0 -
I think you're looking at the original 'ban Trump' petition, not the current one.surbiton said:The Petition was closed after 586930 signatures. Must have been the fastest 500k ever.
Were they scared that 1m would be reached by midnight ?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/1719280 -
Probably a mix of both, like Odinists in the US and Northern Europe. Basically, they think their respective peoples became a bunch of wusses, when they converted to Christianity. Whereas if you're a pagan, life is one long stag party.rcs1000 said:
Do they really believe Zeus and co exist? Or do they want them restored to bring back the 'tradition'?Sean_F said:
There is actually a movement in Greece to restore worship of Zeus et al. It's very hard right.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, and now you worship Zeus? or Thor?
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?0 -
So if we just send the 1% back to where they came from we won't have a problem at all.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
I read yesterday that Mitch McConnel had to talk Trump out of pushing for a National Popular Vote amendment.0
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These are just the numbers from wikipedia. For the other figures, I'm not sure, but it is clear that a higher proportion of Muslim countries (majority or plurality) do have anti-gay laws. I suspect a fair few of the 75 are remnants of British colonial laws.HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Everybody lies these days, haven't you noticed. Trump and his cronies lie constantly, the media lies to suite their cause du jour, the EU lies the whole damn time, its the world we live in, yet we still need to function and make alliances of convenience. We just need to remember Palmerston's maxim.SouthamObserver said:
How can a regime that puts a white supremacist on the National Security Council and which consistently lies be trusted?AlsoIndigo said:
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.0 -
They have been a doing lot of the map stuff and add-ons to Gmail like calendar for a while there. Something like 700-800 people work there already.rcs1000 said:As an aside, the Executive Order is bad economics.
Donald Trump is demonstrating why he is a good real estate developer and a great candidate. Keep your opponents guessing, and off balance.
But the EO is bad economics. If you are Google, Intel, IBM, or any big technology company, that is used to bringing the world's best technologists to Silicon Valley, this will make you rethink where the best place to put a development centre is.
Because this wasn't: people from place [x] need to undergo extra screening before they can visit, which businesses can plan around.
It was: as of tomorrow, some of your employees on H1Bs or green cards who are out the country on business or holiday, can't come back.
I wonder if Google's announcement this weekend that all its Maps, Gmail, etc. development was being moved to Zurich was partly in response to this.
(This is, of course, a great opportunity for the UK, if we have the balls to take it.)0 -
Looks like the real Top Dog impressed him and he decided he would one day be the top man. He looks better now than he did in that photo.Scott_P said:
http://cdn2.spectator.co.uk/files/2015/12/article-2323143-0449190A0000044D-724_634x433.jpgmalcolmg said:He wants to be fawned over , he is the Big Dog and he will have big demands, to which the UK will just say " how high should I jump your Trumpness"
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Yes. It is always FL, PA, MI and OH. Obama brought in NC. I suppose WI will now join in. The TV networks there will make some money.Alistair said:HYUFD said:
Elected by winnning 30 out of 50 statesJobabob said:
'Elected' by a clear minority of those who voted - tyranny of the minority in Trumpton's case I suppose.HYUFD said:
I have no interest in signing petitions against state visits by a Head of State, including Trump, demonstrate by all means but don't ban. However it is rather ironic that the biggest petition against a state visit by a Head of State is against a democratically elected leader rather than someone who is effectively a dictator!surbiton said:
Why don't you start one. You are allowed to, you know.HYUFD said:
Can we also have petitions to end state visits by Putin, the President of China and the King of Saudi Arabia too then?MattW said:3rd
Hmm.williamglenn said:
It's because some people are sharing a link with their own session id in the URL so it shows that it's been signed already. It doesn't mean the count is dodgy.MattW said:I am with Dizzy on this petition. It is telling me I have already signed when that is untrue.
Either the thing is being manipulated or the system is not working as it should.
I followed the one from Jonathon Freedland here:
https://twitter.com/Freedland/status/825689782974050305
The link is a couple of hours old so the session id - and I couldn't obviously see one on the link - should have expired.
Which are spread through far more varied states than the stale retreaded swing states.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
.
The rest of the US TV networks must be wondering why can't they have a share of the gravy.0 -
All Gods exist and are eternal. They just lose their power and diminish as people stop believing in them - and regaining their power as faith is reborn.*rcs1000 said:
Do they really believe Zeus and co exist? Or do they want them restored to bring back the 'tradition'?Sean_F said:
There is actually a movement in Greece to restore worship of Zeus et al. It's very hard right.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinl sox, and now you worship Zeus? or Thor?
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?
* Okay, a bit of TPratchett, Small Gods in there0 -
If you look at the data linked at the bottom it was apparently created on November 9th 2016, and "opened" on November 29th 2016?williamglenn said:
I think you're looking at the original 'ban Trump' petition, not the current one.surbiton said:The Petition was closed after 586930 signatures. Must have been the fastest 500k ever.
Were they scared that 1m would be reached by midnight ?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/171928
Edit: Hit 10k at today, then 100k 1 hour 50 minutes later!0 -
Apparently Zurich is their biggest non-US development centre. (For a long while Copenhagen was Microsoft's biggest non-US.)FrancisUrquhart said:
They have been a doing lot of the map stuff and add-on to Gmail like calendar for a while there.rcs1000 said:As an aside, the Executive Order is bad economics.
Donald Trump is demonstrating why he is a good real estate developer and a great candidate. Keep your opponents guessing, and off balance.
But the EO is bad economics. If you are Google, Intel, IBM, or any big technology company, that is used to bringing the world's best technologists to Silicon Valley, this will make you rethink where the best place to put a development centre is.
Because this wasn't: people from place [x] need to undergo extra screening before they can visit, which businesses can plan around.
It was: as of tomorrow, some of your employees on H1Bs or green cards who are out the country on business or holiday, can't come back.
I wonder if Google's announcement this weekend that all its Maps, Gmail, etc. development was being moved to Zurich was partly in response to this.
(This is, of course, a great opportunity for the UK, if we have the balls to take it.)0 -
If Sky said that water was wet I'd swirl it around to check.FrancisUrquhart said:
Sky said it was ~250k Brits.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
I believe 700-800 before this latest news.rcs1000 said:
Apparently Zurich is their biggest non-US development centre. (For a long while Copenhagen was Microsoft's biggest non-US.)FrancisUrquhart said:
They have been a doing lot of the map stuff and add-on to Gmail like calendar for a while there.rcs1000 said:As an aside, the Executive Order is bad economics.
Donald Trump is demonstrating why he is a good real estate developer and a great candidate. Keep your opponents guessing, and off balance.
But the EO is bad economics. If you are Google, Intel, IBM, or any big technology company, that is used to bringing the world's best technologists to Silicon Valley, this will make you rethink where the best place to put a development centre is.
Because this wasn't: people from place [x] need to undergo extra screening before they can visit, which businesses can plan around.
It was: as of tomorrow, some of your employees on H1Bs or green cards who are out the country on business or holiday, can't come back.
I wonder if Google's announcement this weekend that all its Maps, Gmail, etc. development was being moved to Zurich was partly in response to this.
(This is, of course, a great opportunity for the UK, if we have the balls to take it.)0 -
By "#1 Ally" I presume you really mean the more usual " lapdog " moniker.AlsoIndigo said:
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.0 -
so thats about 0.5% then ?FrancisUrquhart said:
Sky said it was ~250k Brits.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
I cannot see how this mess will be resolved with both sides so entrenched. Trump is now referring to Europe as a horrible mess.
This action by Trump is wrong and has left a nasty taste in the mouth. Tightening the borders is justified but not this way. He says it will be a 3 month freeze and no doubt some changes will be made but the one thing that gives some comfort is the US judicial system and the Republicans themselves can act jointly to hopefully mitigate the damage.
Whether we like it or not he is the President of the US and we do need to keep contact with him but Theresa May is well liked within the Republican movement and close links with them need to be maintained as the Republicans will be in charge for the next four years one way or another
As fas as his visit is concerned it is inconceivable in the present climate but to cancel it now is an understandable re-action but premature
We have no way of knowing what further chaos he will cause with his dislike of the EU and of more concern by his attitude to China and the South China seas.
It needs cool heads and thinking over the coming months as these worrying events pan out.
There has been a lot of fury on here and I considered that a period of non posting would be beneficial but I do not want to do that really.
To those who have accused me of being in favour of Trump I have never posted anything to give that impression and I state categorically that I do not think he should be President of the US but we are where we are
However, I do support Theresa May who has proved herself this last few weeks and in these dangerous times we need her reasoned consideration and competence more than ever0 -
Yep, I made this point this morning. It also applies to universities. As the western world's second biggest English speaking country an imaginative and welcoming immigration policy could pay major dividends. I expect, though, that it will be Canada that gets the benefit, just as with Hong Kong.rcs1000 said:As an aside, the Executive Order is bad economics.
Donald Trump is demonstrating why he is a good real estate developer and a great candidate. Keep your opponents guessing, and off balance.
But the EO is bad economics. If you are Google, Intel, IBM, or any big technology company, that is used to bringing the world's best technologists to Silicon Valley, this will make you rethink where the best place to put a development centre is.
Because this wasn't: people from place [x] need to undergo extra screening before they can visit, which businesses can plan around.
It was: as of tomorrow, some of your employees on H1Bs or green cards who are out the country on business or holiday, can't come back.
I wonder if Google's announcement this weekend that all its Maps, Gmail, etc. development was being moved to Zurich was partly in response to this.
(This is, of course, a great opportunity for the UK, if we have the balls to take it.)
0 -
Lol...need to be careful of all that fake news and alternative facts these daysGeoffM said:
If Sky said that water was wet I'd swirl it around to check.FrancisUrquhart said:
Sky said it was ~250k Brits.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
LOL!. Should be a sacking offenseAlastairMeeks said:
My word. Thats one hell of a central mistake.isam said:This has got to be one of the worst articles ever written hasn't it?
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/8257561335750533120 -
Sunil asked this question first. Is homosexuality legal in Modi's India ? 1.2 bn people. More than many Muslim countries put together.RobD said:
These are just the numbers from wikipedia. For the other figures, I'm not sure, but it is clear that a higher proportion of Muslim countries (majority or plurality) do have anti-gay laws. I suspect a fair few of the 75 are remnants of British colonial laws.HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
The correct answer is that in most under-developed countries it is illegal. Just see the Anglican Synod.0 -
What's up with Food Expenses' tie in that photo ?malcolmg said:
Looks like the real Top Dog impressed him and he decided he would one day be the top man. He looks better now than he did in that photo.Scott_P said:
http://cdn2.spectator.co.uk/files/2015/12/article-2323143-0449190A0000044D-724_634x433.jpgmalcolmg said:He wants to be fawned over , he is the Big Dog and he will have big demands, to which the UK will just say " how high should I jump your Trumpness"
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There is some of that to be sure. The pay off is we get access to intelligence that basically no one else sees outside the US intelligence community, and we get to license some military technologies that no one else gets either. For example, although loads of countries have the Apache now, for a long time we were the only country except the USA to have it.malcolmg said:
By "#1 Ally" I presume you really mean the more usual " lapdog " moniker.AlsoIndigo said:
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.0 -
They can stay here, in fact as the number only applies to those wishing to travel to the U.S. it is even smallerSandyRentool said:
So if we just send the 1% back to where they came from we won't have a problem at all.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
Is everyone lying?AlsoIndigo said:
Everybody lies these days, haven't you noticed. Trump and his cronies lie constantly, the media lies to suite their cause du jour, the EU lies the whole damn time, its the world we live in, yet we still need to function and make alliances of convenience. We just need to remember Palmerston's maxim.SouthamObserver said:
How can a regime that puts a white supremacist on the National Security Council and which consistently lies be trusted?AlsoIndigo said:
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.
Lying is saying something you know to be untrue.
Most people, most organisations, will choose to cherry pick and say what puts them in the best light. That's not lying.
Give me a couple of "EU lies the whole damn time" examples. And I don't mean "some MEP", I mean "the EU". Or "the media".0 -
Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Yes that looks likelyRobD said:
These are just the numbers from wikipedia. For the other figures, I'm not sure, but it is clear that a higher proportion of Muslim countries (majority or plurality) do have anti-gay laws. I suspect a fair few of the 75 are remnants of British colonial laws.HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
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A Corbyn like mandate for Hamon thenrottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Oh yes, forgot about this. Good news for Macron, right?rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Sex outside of marriage is also illegal in parts of the Middle East, it is basically a case of nations who still base their law in large part on taking religious teachings literallysurbiton said:
Sunil asked this question first. Is homosexuality legal in Modi's India ? 1.2 bn people. More than many Muslim countries put together.RobD said:
These are just the numbers from wikipedia. For the other figures, I'm not sure, but it is clear that a higher proportion of Muslim countries (majority or plurality) do have anti-gay laws. I suspect a fair few of the 75 are remnants of British colonial laws.HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
The correct answer is that in most under-developed countries it is illegal. Just see the Anglican Synod.0 -
LOL: so true. He's not Left wing enough to take support from Melanchon, and not centrist enough to make a dent in Macron. He's stuck in Millibland.HYUFD said:
He now has the chance to come fifth in the first round of the presidential electionwilliamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
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Almost all the countries that ban gay sex are majority non-white, aren't they?HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Some perspective is required! Homosexuality only became legal in England and Wales in 1967 (though lesbianism has always been legal), and in Scotland and NI more recently.Roger said:
I did a quick count of countries but of course population numbers are more significanttlg86 said:
Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
Many countries are a few decades behind us in social development, and in Muslim countries attitudes to homosexuality are decidedly ambivalent, for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384027/Women-children-boys-pleasure-secret-shame-Afghanistan-s-bacha-bazi-dancing-boys-dress-like-little-girls-make-skirts-abused-paedophiles.html0 -
"I always lie. In fact, I am lying to you now!"rcs1000 said:
Is everyone lying?AlsoIndigo said:
Everybody lies these days, haven't you noticed. Trump and his cronies lie constantly, the media lies to suite their cause du jour, the EU lies the whole damn time, its the world we live in, yet we still need to function and make alliances of convenience. We just need to remember Palmerston's maxim.SouthamObserver said:
How can a regime that puts a white supremacist on the National Security Council and which consistently lies be trusted?AlsoIndigo said:
Very.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
Being the #1 ally of the country that basically spends half the world's defense spending, and the vast majority of the world intelligence spend is not to be throw away because you don't like the cut of their current leaders jib, because we probably wont get it back under the next more desirable one.
Lying is saying something you know to be untrue.
Most people, most organisations, will choose to cherry pick and say what puts them in the best light. That's not lying.
Give me a couple of "EU lies the whole damn time" examples. And I don't mean "some MEP", I mean "the EU". Or "the media".0 -
As Fox states it was illegal here until a few decades ago, alongside abortion, contraception etcSunil_Prasannan said:
Almost all the countries that ban gay sex are majority non-white, aren't they?HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Is it true that almost all the nations wot ban gay sex are majority non-white?surbiton said:
Sunil asked this question first. Is homosexuality legal in Modi's India ? 1.2 bn people. More than many Muslim countries put together.RobD said:
These are just the numbers from wikipedia. For the other figures, I'm not sure, but it is clear that a higher proportion of Muslim countries (majority or plurality) do have anti-gay laws. I suspect a fair few of the 75 are remnants of British colonial laws.HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
The correct answer is that in most under-developed countries it is illegal. Just see the Anglican Synod.0 -
Yes, about right, though he has a few interesting ideas on a universal basic income he should enjoy his 'victory' while it lastsrcs1000 said:
LOL: so true. He's not Left wing enough to take support from Melanchon, and not centrist enough to make a dent in Macron. He's stuck in Millibland.HYUFD said:
He now has the chance to come fifth in the first round of the presidential electionwilliamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
0 -
Eastern Europe is no shining beacon of LGBT rights either. I shall spare you all a recitation of the gory details.foxinsoxuk said:
Some perspective is required! Homosexuality only became legal in England and Wales in 1967 (though lesbianism has always been legal), and in Scotland and NI more recently.Roger said:
I did a quick count of countries but of course population numbers are more significanttlg86 said:
Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
Many countries are a few decades behind us in social development, and in Muslim countries attitudes to homosexuality are decidedly ambivalent, for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384027/Women-children-boys-pleasure-secret-shame-Afghanistan-s-bacha-bazi-dancing-boys-dress-like-little-girls-make-skirts-abused-paedophiles.html0 -
But not illegal now!HYUFD said:
As Fox states it was illegal here until a few decades ago, alongside abortion, contraception etcSunil_Prasannan said:
Almost all the countries that ban gay sex are majority non-white, aren't they?HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
BTW Underdeveloped? They all seem to use smartphones and iPads these days!0 -
He may be an idiot, but in this case he is joking and the idiot is you.Scott_P said:
He's an idiot. He tweeted his own password.Ishmael_Z said:Um, he is joking, so the laugh is on you and Mr Myers.
But keep cheering him on if you like
And saying "he is joking" is not equivalent to "cheering him on."0 -
Nearly half of that number will be Somalis.GeoffM said:
If Sky said that water was wet I'd swirl it around to check.FrancisUrquhart said:
Sky said it was ~250k Brits.HYUFD said:
Trump is not targeting British citizens as such, only if they happen to have been born in or lived in a blacklisted nation, 99% of Brits will be unaffected even if I disagree with what he is doingSouthamObserver said:
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
Ka-ching! That was a really easy bet.rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Hear, Hear. (Except the last sentence!)Big_G_NorthWales said:I cannot see how this mess will be resolved with both sides so entrenched. Trump is now referring to Europe as a horrible mess.
This action by Trump is wrong and has left a nasty taste in the mouth. Tightening the borders is justified but not this way. He says it will be a 3 month freeze and no doubt some changes will be made but the one thing that gives some comfort is the US judicial system and the Republicans themselves can act jointly to hopefully mitigate the damage.
Whether we like it or not he is the President of the US and we do need to keep contact with him but Theresa May is well liked within the Republican movement and close links with them need to be maintained as the Republicans will be in charge for the next four years one way or another
As fas as his visit is concerned it is inconceivable in the present climate but to cancel it now is an understandable re-action but premature
We have no way of knowing what further chaos he will cause with his dislike of the EU and of more concern by his attitude to China and the South China seas.
It needs cool heads and thinking over the coming months as these worrying events pan out.
There has been a lot of fury on here and I considered that a period of non posting would be beneficial but I do not want to do that really.
To those who have accused me of being in favour of Trump I have never posted anything to give that impression and I state categorically that I do not think he should be President of the US but we are where we are
However, I do support Theresa May who has proved herself this last few weeks and in these dangerous times we need her reasoned consideration and competence more than ever0 -
Better for him than Valls though even with Hamon latest polls still have a Le Pen v Fillon run off but we await any fallout from the recent allegations around Fillontlg86 said:
Oh yes, forgot about this. Good news for Macron, right?rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
I do think having knighted a socialist candidate will help them, at least temporarily.HYUFD said:
Yes, about right, though he has a few interesting ideas on a universal basic income he should enjoy his 'victory' while it lastsrcs1000 said:
LOL: so true. He's not Left wing enough to take support from Melanchon, and not centrist enough to make a dent in Macron. He's stuck in Millibland.HYUFD said:
He now has the chance to come fifth in the first round of the presidential electionwilliamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
0 -
Sixty years ago, the Islamic World was generally rather more accepting of homosexuality than the Western world was.foxinsoxuk said:
Some perspective is required! Homosexuality only became legal in England and Wales in 1967 (though lesbianism has always been legal), and in Scotland and NI more recently.Roger said:
I did a quick count of countries but of course population numbers are more significanttlg86 said:
Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
Many countries are a few decades behind us in social development, and in Muslim countries attitudes to homosexuality are decidedly ambivalent, for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384027/Women-children-boys-pleasure-secret-shame-Afghanistan-s-bacha-bazi-dancing-boys-dress-like-little-girls-make-skirts-abused-paedophiles.html0 -
I'm out £10...NickPalmer said:
Ka-ching! That was a really easy bet.rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Most are still poorer than we were in the 1960sSunil_Prasannan said:
But not illegal now!HYUFD said:
As Fox states it was illegal here until a few decades ago, alongside abortion, contraception etcSunil_Prasannan said:
Almost all the countries that ban gay sex are majority non-white, aren't they?HYUFD said:
You may be right but if you divide up between Muslim majority/plurality, Hindu majority/plurality, Christian majority/plurality, Other majority/plurality how do the figures stack up then?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
BTW Underdeveloped? They all seem to use smartphones and iPads these days!0 -
No country in Europe currently has a ban on LGBT rights, even Putin's Russia.John_M said:
Eastern Europe is no shining beacon of LGBT rights either. I shall spare you all a recitation of the gory details.foxinsoxuk said:
Some perspective is required! Homosexuality only became legal in England and Wales in 1967 (though lesbianism has always been legal), and in Scotland and NI more recently.Roger said:
I did a quick count of countries but of course population numbers are more significanttlg86 said:
Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
Many countries are a few decades behind us in social development, and in Muslim countries attitudes to homosexuality are decidedly ambivalent, for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384027/Women-children-boys-pleasure-secret-shame-Afghanistan-s-bacha-bazi-dancing-boys-dress-like-little-girls-make-skirts-abused-paedophiles.html0 -
http://www.politico.eu/article/waging-war-on-the-myth-of-an-eu-army-referendum-britain-brexit-debate/rcs1000 said:Give me a couple of "EU lies the whole damn time" examples. And I don't mean "some MEP", I mean "the EU". Or "the media".
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682541/REVEALED-EU-to-rubber-stamp-its-HUGE-1trillion-budget-NEXT-week-after-referendum-delay
Springs immediately to mind.
0 -
The best he can probably hope for is to beat Melenchon for 4th but even that is unlikelyTheWhiteRabbit said:
I do think having knighted a socialist candidate will help them, at least temporarily.HYUFD said:
Yes, about right, though he has a few interesting ideas on a universal basic income he should enjoy his 'victory' while it lastsrcs1000 said:
LOL: so true. He's not Left wing enough to take support from Melanchon, and not centrist enough to make a dent in Macron. He's stuck in Millibland.HYUFD said:
He now has the chance to come fifth in the first round of the presidential electionwilliamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
0 -
A legal ban and embedded cultural behaviour are different things.Sunil_Prasannan said:
No country in Europe currently has a ban on LGBT rights, even Putin's Russia.John_M said:
Eastern Europe is no shining beacon of LGBT rights either. I shall spare you all a recitation of the gory details.foxinsoxuk said:
Some perspective is required! Homosexuality only became legal in England and Wales in 1967 (though lesbianism has always been legal), and in Scotland and NI more recently.Roger said:
I did a quick count of countries but of course population numbers are more significanttlg86 said:
Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
Many countries are a few decades behind us in social development, and in Muslim countries attitudes to homosexuality are decidedly ambivalent, for example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3384027/Women-children-boys-pleasure-secret-shame-Afghanistan-s-bacha-bazi-dancing-boys-dress-like-little-girls-make-skirts-abused-paedophiles.html0 -
I'm sorry, but those links prove my point.AlsoIndigo said:
http://www.politico.eu/article/waging-war-on-the-myth-of-an-eu-army-referendum-britain-brexit-debate/rcs1000 said:Give me a couple of "EU lies the whole damn time" examples. And I don't mean "some MEP", I mean "the EU". Or "the media".
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682541/REVEALED-EU-to-rubber-stamp-its-HUGE-1trillion-budget-NEXT-week-after-referendum-delay
Springs immediately to mind.
The first article is prior to the referendum, and mentions that Juncker has advocated an EU army. And it then mentions the technical challenges. It doesn't contain an EU denial that there might ever be an army. (Which, by the way, there isn't yet. And may well not be. Because, you know, most of the challenges mentioned in the first article. Errr. Still exist.)
Also, things change. I can't promise that the UK won't criminalise homosexuality tomorrow. Even Theresa May can't promise that, because parliament could vote on it and over-rule her.
If she said the UK wouldn't criminalise homosexuality, and then parliament passed that, she wouldn't be lying, she'd be wrong.
Try again.0 -
and, the winner is......................Macron !rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Boris Johnson, speaking in 2015: Trump is out of his mind for suggesting Muslims should be banned from entering the US and is unfit to be President.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/dec/09/boris-johnson-trump-is-clearly-out-of-his-mind-video0 -
Who do you think the last two in the race for President will be (I don't follow French politics)surbiton said:
and, the winner is......................Macron !rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
Trump thinks that Europe is a horrible mess, the US is carnage. I guess only mother Russia has its shit together.0
-
@rcs1000 - I'm not sure you aren't getting carried away with your defence of the EU. It's an organisation that is riddled with corruption from top to bottom. Everyone cheats their hours, holidays, expenses, etc. Almost everyone is a yes-man. If their boss says lose the file then they will. However the people that work in the EU are mostly good, law-abiding, and well-intentioned. It'd all work out well if you sent a couple of the top bods off to Trump-land for a debrief.0
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Problem is he is President and likely to cause chaos for time to come. Very worrying timeswilliamglenn said:Boris Johnson, speaking in 2015: Trump is out of his mind for suggesting Muslims should be banned from entering the US and is unfit to be President.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/dec/09/boris-johnson-trump-is-clearly-out-of-his-mind-video0 -
And he wants to attack China in the South China sea, god forbidJonathan said:Trump thinks that Europe is a horrible mess, the US is carnage. I guess only mother Russia has its shit together.
0 -
As Theresa May took off from Washington on Friday the British prime minister had reason to believe she had emerged unscathed — and even enhanced — from her high-stakes visit to Donald Trump’s White House.
By Sunday, Mrs May was reminded of the many potential strains facing the latest version of the US-UK “special relationship”, as a chorus of politicians, including many from her own Conservative party, lashed out at Mr Trump’s ban on Muslim refugees while an online petition targeting Mr Trump gained hundreds of thousands of signatures.
https://www.ft.com/content/73f34820-e643-11e6-893c-082c54a7f5390 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
Last two seems almost certain to include Le Pen. It now seems (just about) like Macron will be running against her. That's not a nice mix - an independent (of sorts) against a radical.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Who do you think the last two in the race for President will be (I don't follow French politics)surbiton said:
and, the winner is......................Macron !rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
More
France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes
0 -
Thanks for thatOmnium said:
Last two seems almost certain to include Le Pen. It now seems (just about) like Macron will be running against her. That's not a nice mix - an independent (of sorts) against a radical.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Who do you think the last two in the race for President will be (I don't follow French politics)surbiton said:
and, the winner is......................Macron !rottenborough said:Europe Elects @EuropeElects 5m5 minutes ago
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France, PS+ (S&D, G/EFA) primary, second round, Radio Londres exit poll:
Hamon: 69%
Valls: 31%
#PrimaireGauche #PrimairesCitoyennes0 -
I was probably getting carried away, yesOmnium said:@rcs1000 - I'm not sure you aren't getting carried away with your defence of the EU. It's an organisation that is riddled with corruption from top to bottom. Everyone cheats their hours, holidays, expenses, etc. Almost everyone is a yes-man. If their boss says lose the file then they will. However the people that work in the EU are mostly good, law-abiding, and well-intentioned. It'd all work out well if you sent a couple of the top bods off to Trump-land for a debrief.
My point is that "oh, everyone lies" is simply not true0 -
Remember the FT is very much a left of centre, liberal elite paper nowadays.Scott_P said:As Theresa May took off from Washington on Friday the British prime minister had reason to believe she had emerged unscathed — and even enhanced — from her high-stakes visit to Donald Trump’s White House.
By Sunday, Mrs May was reminded of the many potential strains facing the latest version of the US-UK “special relationship”, as a chorus of politicians, including many from her own Conservative party, lashed out at Mr Trump’s ban on Muslim refugees while an online petition targeting Mr Trump gained hundreds of thousands of signatures.
https://www.ft.com/content/73f34820-e643-11e6-893c-082c54a7f5390
