I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
Does she have the numbers in Parliament? She's already backed down once this week and she has to consider what to conserve her political capital for.
She'll fudge it, double down on British citizens, and say - assuming Trump backs down on elements of his plan - that all's changed.
'I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.'
Strange, can't remember petitions or demos when Russia was carpet bombing Syria a few weeks ago.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
The visit will have to go ahead after May publicly acknowledged Trump's acceptance of the invitation.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
Given 17 million British people voted for Brexit supported by Trump and May backed Remain you could make an argument the average British voter is actually slightly closer to Trump than the PM!
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
Does she have the numbers in Parliament? She's already backed down once this week and she has to consider what to conserve her political capital for.
She'll fudge it, double down on British citizens, and say - assuming Trump backs down on elements of his plan - that all's changed.
And the UK's international standing will be substantially damaged at a time when we can least afford it. I agree it will happen though.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.
Not sure the leader of the Scottish Conservative party can be described as being a Scottish nationalist or being on the left of the Labour party.
She is just trying to chip away at some of the SNP support. What she says is of little consequence at the moment outside of Scotland.
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!
Indeed. So trying to lean on him in the court of public opinion is a waste of time. For the same reasons he is effectively unbrowbeatable. Trying to "educate" him will cost us a potential trade deal for nothing. Obviously if any forth coming trade deal is shite, we walk away, but if wagging out fingers in public will a) achieve nothing b) demonstrate our impotence and c) lost any chance of a (possibly acceptable) deal we might have.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?
Have to admit, any last remnants of the hope I had for Theresa May have gone over the past few days. In terms of US-UK dealings, she's achieved the incredible feat of making even Blair look like he had a spine.
Overall, I'd say she's made a good beginning, as PM.
I think she's doing a decent job with Brexit, and I liked some of her early Labour-ish talk on economic issues (though am now doubting it will be converted into policies). And, ever since she first became Home Secretary, she'd always struck me as someone with a bit of integrity, as compared to most senior Tory MPs.
No more.
Why does she have to "react" or at least react any more than she has with last night's statement. In fact one of her merits is that somewhat refreshingly compared to recent Premiers she likes to reflect rather than act in haste and repent at leisure . I am sure she will do what is necessary behind the scenes.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Why are Lefties so keen to criticise Trump for sexism, but are so reluctant to call Islam (or many other non-white cultures) out for sexism?
I have often done so. Islam is systemically misogynist, amongst many other unpleasant features and I have often said so.
I do draw a distinction between the sin and the sinner, I have no objection to Muslims themselves.
A quote that comes to mind "While it is unfortunate that the majority of Christians ignore many of their founders teachings, it is fortunate that the majority of Muslims do ignore many of their founders teachings"
In practice all Abrahamic religions have evolved over time to take on aspects of each other. Karen Armstrong's excellent "A History of God" covers this very well. My only disagreement with her is that she is not so well read in Protestant theology, or at least doesn't display it.
In fact one of her merits is that somewhat refreshingly compared to recent Premiers she likes to reflect rather than act in haste and repent at leisure.
So far the most memorable thing she's done as PM is rush to hold hands with Trump within a week of his inauguration.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
What's the point even holding an election there now, it has been decreed
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.
China, Cuba, North Korea none will face the protests from the left Trump does
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38789821BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg has been told that both ministers had already been talking to US contacts about a possible British exemption to the executive order. Mr Johnson was talking to Mr Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon and senior adviser Jared Kushner, a source said.
I think that would look even worse for the UK, almost as if we are complicit.
Incredibly stupid thing to do , are these people really that stupid.
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi Arabia
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.
China, Cuba, North Korea none will face the protests from the left Trump does
Trump will be the first POTUS to visit DPRK. Cuba is a favourite tourist destination for many Brits, not all of them lefties.
Not sure about that, it is mostly illegal in Muslim North Africa and the Middle East and India apart the Muslim nations of South Asia (albeit so is sex outside marriage in some Arab states)
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Would they? CGP Grey covers this in a follow-up to his electoral college video. The top *100* cities contain 19.4% of the population. More if you include the wider metro areas, as he concedes.
In any case, only campaigning in cities has got to be better than only campaigning in cities in ~10/50 states.
The argument made by RobD is wrong. Both the Dems and GOP would campaign in their bases and the suburbs. The suburbs would get most money and attention spent on them because normally that is where most swing voters live not the cities. Although I think this election was a bit different as trump killed Hillary in rural areas as well as holding his own in the suburbs.
Why does she have to "react" or at least react any more than she has with last night's statement. In fact one of her merits is that somewhat refreshingly compared to recent Premiers she likes to reflect rather than act in haste and repent at leisure . I am sure she will do what is necessary behind the scenes.
She already reacted.
She told Boris to call the US and beg them not to be mean to us
Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Would they? CGP Grey covers this in a follow-up to his electoral college video. The top *100* cities contain 19.4% of the population. More if you include the wider metro areas, as he concedes.
In any case, only campaigning in cities has got to be better than only campaigning in cities in ~10/50 states.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLQz-LgrM
The argument made by RobD is wrong. Both the Dems and GOP would campaign in their bases and the suburbs. The suburbs would get most money and attention spent on them because normally that is where most swing voters live not the cities. Although I think this election was a bit different as trump killed Hillary in rural areas as well as holding his own in the suburbs.
The argument I was trying to make was that you still have a situation where there will be ignored voters.
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi Arabia
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restriction
Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
One of the big problems is that it is almost retroactive. People who have the necessary papers are now being told they can't come. Some while in transit!
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.
They kill their own, they have no democracy, people are scared, they are corrupt. Left wing habits. Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, Zimbabwe etc
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.
China, Cuba, North Korea none will face the protests from the left Trump does
Trump will be the first POTUS to visit DPRK. Cuba is a favourite tourist destination for many Brits, not all of them lefties.
If he has not nuked it first or indeed Kim nuked California
Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
That's pretty much my attitude to it all too.
And also why I voted Leave - to regain the sovereignty to make our own decisions rather than having them imposed from abroad..
And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view .
Which is a bit of a silly measure since a lot of those countries are little specs in the Pacific. It does however contain large muslim states, like Indonesia, Pakistan, and most of Northern Africa.
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majority
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
I am going by the swings and demographic change.
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.
Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
One of the big problems is that it is almost retroactive. People who have the necessary papers are now being told they can't come. Some while in transit!
That's not really a "big" problem. The numbers will not be large and the individual cases will be tidied up and cleared with little publicity as long as the affected individuals don't go all SJW in public.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Good point. Particularly as a US/UK trade deal will probably mean importing lots of cheap rubbish US processed food but not exporting much extra the other way, - as well as jeopardising our food exports to the EU because of standards issues.
Presumably we have done this: //twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/825728605472878592
Is it only Muslims from those countries that are banned then? Other people from those countries are free to come and go?
It is directed at Moslems, but affects anyone born in the relevant coutries whether citizens or not.
Yes, that's why it catches a Tory MP, Mo Farah and various other people not usually suspected of terrorist leanings.One has to be careful where one's born, y'know.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!
Indeed. So trying to lean on him in the court of public opinion is a waste of time. For the same reasons he is effectively unbrowbeatable. Trying to "educate" him will cost us a potential trade deal for nothing. Obviously if any forth coming trade deal is shite, we walk away, but if wagging out fingers in public will a) achieve nothing b) demonstrate our impotence and c) lost any chance of a (possibly acceptable) deal we might have.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?
The talk of a trade deal with the US misses one point. The tariffs currently are pretty low to start of with. The worrying thing is what comes with the deal. Mostly, it will not be for the UK's benefit.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
I am going by the swings and demographic change.
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.
Obama won a bigger lead in the Electoral College in 2012 than he did in the popular vote, Hillary did better in the popular vote than she did in the Electoral College, it was really Hillary who was toxic outside urban areas not necessarily the Democratic Party as a whole. I expect Sanders would have done better than Hillary in the industrial Midwest for example but worse in wealthy suburbs of California
And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view .
While it's no argument for against the truth of any particular religion, I think the world would be a much less interesting place without religions.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.
Quite likely.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.
And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view .
Not really. 30 years ago I was a militant Athiest too. I am no longer.
Initially I realised my lack of understanding of my own culture, so read around the subject, including the New Testament. Once the ground was prepared it was still a few years before the thunderbolt hit.
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majority
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!
Indeed. So trying to lean on him in the court of public opinion is a waste of time. For the same reasons he is effectively unbrowbeatable. Trying to "educate" him will cost us a potential trade deal for nothing. Obviously if any forth coming trade deal is shite, we walk away, but if wagging out fingers in public will a) achieve nothing b) demonstrate our impotence and c) lost any chance of a (possibly acceptable) deal we might have.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?
The talk of a trade deal with the US misses one point. The tariffs currently are pretty low to start of with. The worrying thing is what comes with the deal. Mostly, it will not be for the UK's benefit.
Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
One of the big problems is that it is almost retroactive. People who have the necessary papers are now being told they can't come. Some while in transit!
That's not really a "big" problem. The numbers will not be large and the individual cases will be tidied up and cleared with little publicity as long as the affected individuals don't go all SJW in public.
Well it's all over the news right now I think it's on the order of 100s affected.
And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view .
Trying to do what the Gaffer tells you isn't always a picnic either. But God has always been there when needed for me, despite me not really deserving it. At all.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
I am going by the swings and demographic change.
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.
Obama won a bigger lead in the Electoral College in 2012 than he did in the popular vote, Hillary did better in the popular vote than she did in the Electoral College, it was really Hillary who was toxic outside urban areas not necessarily the Democratic Party as a whole. I expect Sanders would have done better than Hillary in the industrial Midwest for example but worse in wealthy suburbs of California
Sanders would certainly done better among blue collar whites, but would he have done worse among college-educated whites? But, it's a good trade off. Blue collar whites are overrepresented in Swing States, but underrepresented in States like California, Texas, or New York, which aren't competitive.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.
Quite likely.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.
"All" they have to do is repeal that part of the Immigration and Nationality Act that empowers the President to make these orders? Not sure if it can be retroactive though!
It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.
I am going by the swings and demographic change.
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.
Obama won a bigger lead in the Electoral College in 2012 than he did in the popular vote, Hillary did better in the popular vote than she did in the Electoral College, it was really Hillary who was toxic outside urban areas not necessarily the Democratic Party as a whole. I expect Sanders would have done better than Hillary in the industrial Midwest for example but worse in wealthy suburbs of California
Sanders would certainly done better among blue collar whites, but would he have done worse among college-educated whites? But, it's a good trade off. Blue collar whites are overrepresented in Swing States, but underrepresented in States like California, Texas, or New York, which aren't competitive.
Indeed, Sanders won Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota in the primaries and Hillary won California, Texas and New York
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi Arabia
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restriction
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.
I'm an atheist, but think the influence of Christianity on Britain has been a net positive. Our country's architecture is made richer by our cathedrals and churches for one.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.
Quite likely.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.
I think you are overlooking how mind meltingly shallow Trump is, the state visit isn't about trade, he wants his picture taken with the Queen.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.
Quite likely.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.
He wants to be fawned over , he is the Big Dog and he will have big demands, to which the UK will just say " how high should I jump your Trumpness"
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majority
Interestingly, that number is also 33.
Is it true that virtually all the nations banning gays are majority non-white?
Comments
'I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.'
Strange, can't remember petitions or demos when Russia was carpet bombing Syria a few weeks ago.
"Why are Lefties so keen to criticise Trump for sexism, but are so reluctant to call Islam (or
many other non-white cultures) out for sexism?"
You are a tease. You already know the answer to that.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/825723655535620096
I've just taken the 11/10 and think it's a good bet.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
I do draw a distinction between the sin and the sinner, I have no objection to Muslims themselves.
A quote that comes to mind "While it is unfortunate that the majority of Christians ignore many of their founders teachings, it is fortunate that the majority of Muslims do ignore many of their founders teachings"
In practice all Abrahamic religions have evolved over time to take on aspects of each other. Karen Armstrong's excellent "A History of God" covers this very well. My only disagreement with her is that she is not so well read in Protestant theology, or at least doesn't display it.
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
https://76crimes.com/10-nations-where-the-penalty-for-gay-sex-is-death/
Four of them are among Trump's (Obama's) 7.
From a casual look at the list, they do appear to be the main terrorist breeding grounds.
She told Boris to call the US and beg them not to be mean to us
And also why I voted Leave - to regain the sovereignty to make our own decisions rather than having them imposed from abroad..
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.
As for believers being happier, drunks are frequently happier than the sober. It doesn't mean they're right. Or wise.
EDIT chestnut beat me to it!
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/825756133575053312
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.
Initially I realised my lack of understanding of my own culture, so read around the subject, including the New Testament. Once the ground was prepared it was still a few years before the thunderbolt hit.
The number of people who are thinking: hhhmmmm, dah'ling, is it Aspen, Courchevel or Bulgaria this year? is precisely zero.
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
https://twitter.com/rupertmyers/status/825686810256896000