What we really miss from the EU is our shared values. Knowing that all of 27 of the most cultured countries of the world don't hang flog or abuse human rights is a nice club to belong to.
The first time I went to Miami in 1980 the racism was tangible. Much more so than South Africa which I visited ten years later.
To believe we share a culture with the US is as insulting as it would be to suggest the Dutch share one with the Afrikaners
I would suggest you haven't travelled much in Bavaria, provincial Spain, southern Italy and Eastern Europe then. Culturally most of the U.S. has more in common with the UK than those areas and certainly the East and West coasts
Which parts of the USA have you experienced?
Not much by sound of it , yet to see anywhere in US that is culturally like us , though I have not spent much time in NE. But southern states , california etc are worlds away from the UK.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
He's awfully busy right now suddenly.
He is certainly sounding a bit alpha male, in line with Labour doctrine that women are there for men to shout orders at. Plus, he had rationalized his failure in 2015 on the theory that you can't be PM if you are a bit crap - atheory now being severely tested.
I am with Dizzy on this petition. It is telling me I have already signed when that is untrue.
Either the thing is being manipulated or the system is not working as it should.
It's because some people are sharing a link with their own session id in the URL so it shows that it's been signed already. It doesn't mean the count is dodgy.
The link is a couple of hours old so the session id - and I couldn't obviously see one on the link - should have expired.
Can we also have petitions to end state visits by Putin, the President of China and the King of Saudi Arabia too then?
Why don't you start one. You are allowed to, you know.
I have no interest in signing petitions against state visits by a Head of State, including Trump, demonstrate by all means but don't ban. However it is rather ironic that the biggest petition against a state visit by a Head of State is against a democratically elected leader rather than someone who is effectively a dictator!
'Elected' by a clear minority of those who voted - tyranny of the minority in Trumpton's case I suppose.
By the system as laid down in the US Constitution. States elect presidents, not the voters.
Yes I am quite aware how the Electoral College works thanks. However, it's an awkward truth that more than two million more people voted against him than for him.
Far fairer than our system where you can be in charge with 3 out of 10 votes.
True, I suppose - the last time a party got 50% of the vote, and the only time in the age of universal suffrage, was in 1931.
But it is rare for parties to lose the vote and win the seat count - it has in fact only happened twice since 1945. It is democracy, of an imperfect sort.
The issue is that it all revolves round a handful of seats in almost every election, for most of them you could just not bother.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
Scotland has about 1500 times as much territory as Berwick-upon-Tweed, but I am not sure if that tells us much either.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
"One of Europe's top hotels has admitted they had to pay thousands in Bitcoin ransom to cybercriminals who managed to hack their electronic key system, locking hundreds of guests in or out of their rooms until the money was paid.
Ransomware is a growing threat because it is a business. Companies pay the ransom.
Hospitals are a common target, and there was a report last year that British companies are stockpiling bitcoins in order to pay to get their files back (or more precisely, to have them decrypted).
Hacking used to be about vandalism -- defacing websites and so on. Now it is about espionage at the state level and making sackloads of cash at the criminal level. And when we say hacking, it is mainly social engineering -- persuading users to give up their passwords or download dodgy files.
I had an interesting conversation with a Muslim colleague a few years ago. The question of comedians having a go at religion came up, and he wondered why Christians didn't defend their religion like they did. He sees some good things in the Taliban way of doing things but he's not an extremist.
We agreed that most are frit of Islam, it's not a matter of respect for minorities. Born in Pakistan and devout, but he goes to Old Trafford to watch United on a regular basis. I do hold that against him.
I am with Dizzy on this petition. It is telling me I have already signed when that is untrue.
Either the thing is being manipulated or the system is not working as it should.
It's because some people are sharing a link with their own session id in the URL so it shows that it's been signed already. It doesn't mean the count is dodgy.
The link is a couple of hours old so the session id - and I couldn't obviously see one on the link - should have expired.
Can we also have petitions to end state visits by Putin, the President of China and the King of Saudi Arabia too then?
Why don't you start one. You are allowed to, you know.
I have no interest in signing petitions against state visits by a Head of State, including Trump, demonstrate by all means but don't ban. However it is rather ironic that the biggest petition against a state visit by a Head of State is against a democratically elected leader rather than someone who is effectively a dictator!
'Elected' by a clear minority of those who voted - tyranny of the minority in Trumpton's case I suppose.
By the system as laid down in the US Constitution. States elect presidents, not the voters.
Yes I am quite aware how the Electoral College works thanks. However, it's an awkward truth that more than two million more people voted against him than for him.
It's not an 'awkward truth': it's the way the system works. All electoral systems can throw up odd results: it's for parties and individuals to legally make the most of the system.
And this is where Clinton failed. She racked up massive levels of votes in some states, but not enough in others. Her campaign fundamentally mucked up in calculating how to get the result they wanted from the system.
Trump and the Republicans did much better in this, although far from perfectly.
The failure is Clinton's and the Democrats.
The stupidity and arrogance of the Democrats' last-minute campaigning in New Orleans and Chicago to prevent an ECV win/PV loss is stunning.
What we really miss from the EU is our shared values. Knowing that all of 27 of the most cultured countries of the world don't hang flog or abuse human rights is a nice club to belong to.
The first time I went to Miami in 1980 the racism was tangible. Much more so than South Africa which I visited ten years later.
To believe we share a culture with the US is as insulting as it would be to suggest the Dutch share one with the Afrikaners
I would suggest you haven't travelled much in Bavaria, provincial Spain, southern Italy and Eastern Europe then. Culturally most of the U.S. has more in common with the UK than those areas and certainly the East and West coasts
I've travelled in nearly all of them. You could have added any number of places in the UK but that's the difference between cities and backwaters. What's Mayfair got in common with Ramsbottom?
Afternoon all. Just catching up - was the issue surrounding British-only citizens being denied entry resolved? Is it still based on place of birth?
While I do have sympathy for the petitioners, the idea that Trump visiting HM would cause her embarrassment, after she has had to meet dictators and (former) terrorists, is a bit laughable.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
Scotland has about 1500 times as much territory as Berwick-upon-Tweed, but I am not sure if that tells us much either.
Sunil does talk out of his arse sometimes. Sorry! Most of the time.
Afternoon all. Just catching up - was the issue surrounding British-only citizens being denied entry resolved? Is it still based on place of birth?
While I do have sympathy for the petitioners, the idea that Trump visiting HM would cause her embarrassment, after she has had to meet dictators and (former) terrorists, is a bit laughable.
Afternoon all. Just catching up - was the issue surrounding British-only citizens being denied entry resolved? Is it still based on place of birth?
While I do have sympathy for the petitioners, the idea that Trump visiting HM would cause her embarrassment, after she has had to meet dictators and (former) terrorists, is a bit laughable.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Mr. rkrkrk, after the furore over Danish cartoons in 2005, how many newspapers here reprinted them?
Mr. Meeks, excessive tolerance of non-British cultures is partially to blame for the prolonged delay in anything being done about the widespread sexual crimes in Rotherham.
I don't think any newspapers did. Thats their choice surely?
I can godown and buy a copy of the satanic verses if I want. That's a measure of freedom of speech.
I can accept that it can be tricky to balance. I think someone calling for a genocide should be locked up. I'm fine with us arresting abu Hamza. I don't agree with the cake one... I thought that was unfair on the bakers.
I think this is the relevant part of the law:
"Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practicing their religion or belief system."
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
You jest, but in truth governments are much more concerned about trade than about human rights.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
Do we have a suitable industry that can benefit from a US trade deal to sell them thumbscrews , Iron Maidens , waterboards and other instruments of torture ?
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
Scotland has about 1500 times as much territory as Berwick-upon-Tweed, but I am not sure if that tells us much either.
Sunil does talk out of his arse sometimes. Sorry! Most of the time.
I might be wrong but he seems to play devil's advocate to mainly keep in with the pb right of centre.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38789821BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg has been told that both ministers had already been talking to US contacts about a possible British exemption to the executive order. Mr Johnson was talking to Mr Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon and senior adviser Jared Kushner, a source said.
I think that would look even worse for the UK, almost as if we are complicit.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
You jest, but in truth governments are much more concerned about trade than about human rights.
Whatever happened to Robin Cook's ethical foreign policy?
I am with Dizzy on this petition. It is telling me I have already signed when that is untrue.
Either the thing is being manipulated or the system is not working as it should.
It's because some people are sharing a link with their own session id in the URL so it shows that it's been signed already. It doesn't mean the count is dodgy.
The link is a couple of hours old so the session id - and I couldn't obviously see one on the link - should have expired.
Can we also have petitions to end state visits by Putin, the President of China and the King of Saudi Arabia too then?
Why don't you start one. You are allowed to, you know.
'Elected' by a clear minority of those who voted - tyranny of the minority in Trumpton's case I suppose.
By the system as laid down in the US Constitution. States elect presidents, not the voters.
Yes I am quite aware how the Electoral College works thanks. However, it's an awkward truth that more than two million more people voted against him than for him.
It's not an 'awkward truth': it's the way the system works. All electoral systems can throw up odd results: it's for parties and individuals to legally make the most of the system.
And this is where Clinton failed. She racked up massive levels of votes in some states, but not enough in others. Her campaign fundamentally mucked up in calculating how to get the result they wanted from the system.
Trump and the Republicans did much better in this, although far from perfectly.
The failure is Clinton's and the Democrats.
More than that, it wasn't just a quirk. The ECV system was designed to prevent a candidate piling up votes in a few states to win, so they are forced to appeal to a broader range of states. The fact that Trump won was not a failure, or an odd outcome; it functioned as expected.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
That's like saying the Nordic countries are far larger than Germany, so it's OK for Germany to annex Denmark. The "Arabs" aren't a single homogenous nation: their "dialects" of Arabic are actually as distinct from each other as Romance languages are from each other. We have a friend who's originally from Morocco and she can't understand the Arabic of someone from Algeria.
What we really miss from the EU is our shared values. Knowing that all of 27 of the most cultured countries of the world don't hang flog or abuse human rights is a nice club to belong to.
The first time I went to Miami in 1980 the racism was tangible. Much more so than South Africa which I visited ten years later.
To believe we share a culture with the US is as insulting as it would be to suggest the Dutch share one with the Afrikaners
I would suggest you haven't travelled much in Bavaria, provincial Spain, southern Italy and Eastern Europe then. Culturally most of the U.S. has more in common with the UK than those areas and certainly the East and West coasts
I've travelled in nearly all of them. You could have added any number of places in the UK but that's the difference between cities and backwaters. What's Mayfair got in common with Ramsbottom?
Maybe not much, but since twice as many people live outside major conurbations as in them, I think Ramsbottom should feel aggrieved at the amount of attention Mayfair gets by comparison. The US equivalents ARE feeling aggrieved, hence Trump.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
Scotland has about 1500 times as much territory as Berwick-upon-Tweed, but I am not sure if that tells us much either.
Sunil does talk out of his arse sometimes. Sorry! Most of the time.
#AlternativeFacts talk from Surbiton!
Fact: Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales)
Fact: Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
There's an issue of free speech in law, but also free speech in practice. Look at the reaction by Newsnight to the Jesus and Mo cartoons, Paxman haranguing an atheist cartoonist for not being in compliance with Sharia Law, or the death threats Maajid Nawaz received: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz#Jesus_and_Mo_cartoon
Just what sort of change is credible within a few years? It should perhaps have asked "now" or "in 30 years".
There are certain countries / territories where immigrant communities have had a signifciant impact demographically in a small number of generations, eg Malaysia, Thailand and others in Asia. Lessons to be learnt from there? Malaysia has more than one system of law, for example - restrictive law for personal relations amongst Muslims.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
You jest, but in truth governments are much more concerned about trade than about human rights.
Whatever happened to Robin Cook's ethical foreign policy?
I am with Dizzy on this petition. It is telling me I have already signed when that is untrue.
Either the thing is being manipulated or the system is not working as it should.
It's because some people are sharing a link with their own session id in the URL so it shows that it's been signed already. It doesn't mean the count is dodgy.
The link is a couple of hours old so the session id - and I couldn't obviously see one on the link - should have expired.
Can we also have petitions to end state visits by Putin, the President of China and the King of Saudi Arabia too then?
Why don't you start one. You are allowed to, you know.
'Elected' by a clear minority of those who voted - tyranny of the minority in Trumpton's case I suppose.
By the system as laid down in the US Constitution. States elect presidents, not the voters.
Yes I am quite aware how the Electoral College works thanks. However, it's an awkward truth that more than two million more people voted against him than for him.
It's not an 'awkward truth': it's the way the system works. All electoral systems can throw up odd results: it's for parties and individuals to legally make the most of the system.
And this is where Clinton failed. She racked up massive levels of votes in some states, but not enough in others. Her campaign fundamentally mucked up in calculating how to get the result they wanted from the system.
Trump and the Republicans did much better in this, although far from perfectly.
The failure is Clinton's and the Democrats.
More than that, it wasn't just a quirk. The ECV system was designed to prevent a candidate piling up votes in a few states to win, so they are forced to appeal to a broader range of states. The fact that Trump won was not a failure, or an odd outcome; it functioned as expected.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Trump won 30 states, Hillary won only 20, plus DC.
Have to admit, any last remnants of the hope I had for Theresa May have gone over the past few days. In terms of US-UK dealings, she's achieved the incredible feat of making even Blair look like he had a spine.
You could ask why we are having this discussion about Islamic immigration, but not about any other kind.
Your party made a big issue about fertile Catholic migration, particularly from Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia.
Non EU migration is of course something that Mrs May could have done something about in her 6 years in charge of the Home Office.
I do agree that Hindus, Bhuddists, Sikh and Christian migrants do seem to integrate rather more consistently, perhaps because (apart from Christians) they are non proselytising religions.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
I hadn't thought of that. We could then take all the Jews out of Golders Green and Stamford Hill and put them in in the towns on the West Bank vacated by the (Palestinian) Arabs. It all makes perfect sense!
You could ask why we are having this discussion about Islamic immigration, but not about any other kind.
Your party made a big issue about fertile Catholic migration, particularly from Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia.
Non EU migration is of course something that Mrs May could have done something about in her 6 years in charge of the Home Office.
I do agree that Hindus, Bhuddists, Sikh and Christian migrants do seem to integrate rather more consistently, perhaps because (apart from Christians) they are non proselytising religions.
Have to admit, any last remnants of the hope I had for Theresa May have gone over the past few days. In terms of US-UK dealings, she's achieved the incredible feat of making even Blair look like he had a spine.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
Do we have a suitable industry that can benefit from a US trade deal to sell them thumbscrews , Iron Maidens , waterboards and other instruments of torture ?
Undoubtedly. There are many common household items that can be used as very effective instruments of torture.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
I hadn't thought of that. We could then take all the Jews out of Golders Green and Stamford Hill and put them in in the towns on the West Bank vacated by the (Palestinian) Arabs. It all makes perfect sense!
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
Scotland has about 1500 times as much territory as Berwick-upon-Tweed, but I am not sure if that tells us much either.
Sunil does talk out of his arse sometimes. Sorry! Most of the time.
I might be wrong but he seems to play devil's advocate to mainly keep in with the pb right of centre.
Have to admit, any last remnants of the hope I had for Theresa May have gone over the past few days. In terms of US-UK dealings, she's achieved the incredible feat of making even Blair look like he had a spine.
Overall, I'd say she's made a good beginning, as PM.
What is the threat? That the UK or USA will become fundamentalist Islamic countries? That seems absurd. We are never going to vote to become an Islamic theocracy.
Yes, but it put forward a plausible enough scenario that he and his book were engulfed in controversy as a result.
15% of the population voted UKIP and we left the EU. What starts to happen to our system when 15% of our population votes Sharia ? Its not about winning a majority to reform a nation, its about getting enough votes to worry existing parties into following their lead, first in small ways, and then in more blatant ways - salami tactics if you will.
The novel, in a UK context is a Sharia Party with 30 seats, and Labour being 20 seats short of forming a government with no other attractive options available.
Indeed. See Israel for another example, bedevilled by mad far right settler racist parties that weild disproportionate power under their electoral system. Forcing Israeli politics to the right.
It is arguable that without them Israel would now be at peace, and the entire bloody world a happier place.
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales) Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
I'm not sure what your point is?
The Arabs have about 700 times as much territory as Israel?
I hadn't thought of that. We could then take all the Jews out of Golders Green and Stamford Hill and put them in in the towns on the West Bank vacated by the (Palestinian) Arabs. It all makes perfect sense!
Be careful The bully boys [ and Cyclefree ] will be out in force. You are about to be called and anti-Semite.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
Depends on who is standing, and what has happened in the intervening years. Nothing is inevitable, Trump's election over Clinton should tell you that!
You could ask why we are having this discussion about Islamic immigration, but not about any other kind.
Your party made a big issue about fertile Catholic migration, particularly from Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia.
Non EU migration is of course something that Mrs May could have done something about in her 6 years in charge of the Home Office.
I do agree that Hindus, Bhuddists, Sikh and Christian migrants do seem to integrate rather more consistently, perhaps because (apart from Christians) they are non proselytising religions.
Why does every answer have to contain a dig?
Simply a matter of fact. Your party has banged on about predominantly Christian immigration from the EU for years, it is simply not true that only Islamic Immigration is discussed.
You could ask why we are having this discussion about Islamic immigration, but not about any other kind.
Your party made a big issue about fertile Catholic migration, particularly from Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia.
Non EU migration is of course something that Mrs May could have done something about in her 6 years in charge of the Home Office.
I do agree that Hindus, Bhuddists, Sikh and Christian migrants do seem to integrate rather more consistently, perhaps because (apart from Christians) they are non proselytising religions.
Why does every answer have to contain a dig?
Simply a matter of fact. Your party has banged on about predominantly Christian immigration from the EU for years, it is simply not true that only Islamic Immigration is discussed.
We are having "this discussion" about western civilisation being incompatible with mass immigration from Islamic countries. The discussion about Christian immigration was nothing to do with them being Christian or taking over, it was about economics
There's an issue of free speech in law, but also free speech in practice. Look at the reaction by Newsnight to the Jesus and Mo cartoons, Paxman haranguing an atheist cartoonist for not being in compliance with Sharia Law, or the death threats Maajid Nawaz received: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz#Jesus_and_Mo_cartoon
People criticising publication of the cartoons - sorry but that's freedom of speech too. Pacman is allowed to harangue people.
People being treathened is wrong and death threats are illegal.
But what can we do about a Saudi/Iranian cleric issuing a fatwa from outside the country?
I don't know - but we should definitely defend the person under threat and give them protection. As I think Maggie T did do.
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Would they? CGP Grey covers this in a follow-up to his electoral college video. The top *100* cities contain 19.4% of the population. More if you include the wider metro areas, as he concedes.
In any case, only campaigning in cities has got to be better than only campaigning in cities in ~10/50 states.
Sure, many groups besides the Jews suffered in the Holocaust, who are strangely not mentioned at Yad Vashem or the Holocaust Museum in Washington. But to suggest 'everyone' suffered is utter bollocks.
Indeed, one of the most reprehensible features (and the one that underpinned massive BRD subsidies to Israel) was how the German people mightily profited from it financially.
@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.
Central to our foreign policy.
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.
What we really miss from the EU is our shared values. Knowing that all of 27 of the most cultured countries of the world don't hang flog or abuse human rights is a nice club to belong to.
The first time I went to Miami in 1980 the racism was tangible. Much more so than South Africa which I visited ten years later.
To believe we share a culture with the US is as insulting as it would be to suggest the Dutch share one with the Afrikaners
I would suggest you haven't travelled much in Bavaria, provincial Spain, southern Italy and Eastern Europe then. Culturally most of the U.S. has more in common with the UK than those areas and certainly the East and West coasts
I've travelled in nearly all of them. You could have added any number of places in the UK but that's the difference between cities and backwaters. What's Mayfair got in common with Ramsbottom?
So that rather disputes your original argument then. What we are essentially seeing now is rural and industrial areas in the UK and U.S. have more in common with each other than urban areas in their own nation. You didn't get many Trump voters in New York, you didn't get many Brexit voters in London and you won't get many Wilders' voters in Amsterdam or Le Pen voters in Paris
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
How many did the EU referendum one get? *innocent face*
You could ask why we are having this discussion about Islamic immigration, but not about any other kind.
Your party made a big issue about fertile Catholic migration, particularly from Poland, Lithuania and Slovakia.
Non EU migration is of course something that Mrs May could have done something about in her 6 years in charge of the Home Office.
I do agree that Hindus, Bhuddists, Sikh and Christian migrants do seem to integrate rather more consistently, perhaps because (apart from Christians) they are non proselytising religions.
Why does every answer have to contain a dig?
Simply a matter of fact. Your party has banged on about predominantly Christian immigration from the EU for years, it is simply not true that only Islamic Immigration is discussed.
We are having "this discussion" about western civilisation being incompatible with mass immigration from Islamic countries. The discussion about Christian immigration was nothing to do with them being Christian or taking over, it was about economics
Well that is a rather circular response. We are only discussing Muslim immigration because that is what the thread is about.
I do agree that European migrants integrate well because of our common European culture and values, including by your preferred measure of mixed anglo-immigrant marriages.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
How many did the EU referendum one get? *innocent face*
I'm not a petition signer by temperament but this one seems to be getting support from far beyond the usual quarters.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
Does she have the numbers in Parliament? She's already backed down once this week and she has to consider what to conserve her political capital for.
I think that one of the real deep-seated problems we have is the loss of an ethical compass (and a backbone) in the generation who run our universities.
The people who prevented University Publications printing the Mohammed Cartoons are the same type who wanted to cave in to the Rhodes Must Fall idiots until the donors told them which side their bread was buttered.
In the case of the Motoons they had actually been published months earlier in an Eqyptian Tabloid, but the Universities caved to people who claimed that they were offended.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
How many did the EU referendum one get? *innocent face*
I'm not a petition signer by temperament but this one seems to be getting support from far beyond the usual quarters.
As the EU one no doubt did, given the sheer number of people that signed it. A good mechanism for protesting, but not sure it'll do much more than give MPs a chance to talk about Trump in the chamber.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.
Does she have the numbers in Parliament? She's already backed down once this week and she has to consider what to conserve her political capital for.
On the other hand, she wouldn't want to make a habit of backing down.
Have to admit, any last remnants of the hope I had for Theresa May have gone over the past few days. In terms of US-UK dealings, she's achieved the incredible feat of making even Blair look like he had a spine.
Overall, I'd say she's made a good beginning, as PM.
I think she's doing a decent job with Brexit, and I liked some of her early Labour-ish talk on economic issues (though am now doubting it will be converted into policies). And, ever since she first became Home Secretary, she'd always struck me as someone with a bit of integrity, as compared to most senior Tory MPs.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.
I fail to see why everyone takes the petitions page so seriously.
It would take a medium competent programmer about 20 minutes to make a robot that will fill that form with random names, temporary email addresses and random postcodes until their heart was content.
I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.
Not sure the leader of the Scottish Conservative party can be described as being a Scottish nationalist or being on the left of the Labour party.
Comments
Root out. Replaced by a muslim.
Butler out.
Need 7 from 2
7 from 2.
Hospitals are a common target, and there was a report last year that British companies are stockpiling bitcoins in order to pay to get their files back (or more precisely, to have them decrypted).
Hacking used to be about vandalism -- defacing websites and so on. Now it is about espionage at the state level and making sackloads of cash at the criminal level. And when we say hacking, it is mainly social engineering -- persuading users to give up their passwords or download dodgy files.
We agreed that most are frit of Islam, it's not a matter of respect for minorities. Born in Pakistan and devout, but he goes to Old Trafford to watch United on a regular basis. I do hold that against him.
How comfortable are you with Britain being so dependent on Donald Trump?
While I do have sympathy for the petitioners, the idea that Trump visiting HM would cause her embarrassment, after she has had to meet dictators and (former) terrorists, is a bit laughable.
But they do have a racial problem, even though they think we're much better at it.
Central to our foreign policy.
I can godown and buy a copy of the satanic verses if I want. That's a measure of freedom of speech.
I can accept that it can be tricky to balance. I think someone calling for a genocide should be locked up. I'm fine with us arresting abu Hamza. I don't agree with the cake one... I thought that was unfair on the bakers.
I think this is the relevant part of the law:
"Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practicing their religion or belief system."
The rightwing smear against Ed Miliband angered me. But his bravery and integrity in the face of it was an inspiration
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38789821 BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg has been told that both ministers had already been talking to US contacts about a possible British exemption to the executive order. Mr Johnson was talking to Mr Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon and senior adviser Jared Kushner, a source said.
I think that would look even worse for the UK, almost as if we are complicit.
Edit: yes, I know this is more than just a meeting.
Have you been to Ramsbottom?
It's very nice, and has a tall statue of Robert Peel not far away. Mayfair? Is that some place on the Monopoly board?
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Fact:
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales)
Fact:
Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)
There is no blasphemy law de jure, but there is de facto. After the Hebdo murders, Sky News tried covering up the, er, cover a guest wanted to show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMbwcBYT0DI
There's an issue of free speech in law, but also free speech in practice. Look at the reaction by Newsnight to the Jesus and Mo cartoons, Paxman haranguing an atheist cartoonist for not being in compliance with Sharia Law, or the death threats Maajid Nawaz received: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maajid_Nawaz#Jesus_and_Mo_cartoon
Just what sort of change is credible within a few years? It should perhaps have asked "now" or "in 30 years".
There are certain countries / territories where immigrant communities have had a signifciant impact demographically in a small number of generations, eg Malaysia, Thailand and others in Asia. Lessons to be learnt from there? Malaysia has more than one system of law, for example - restrictive law for personal relations amongst Muslims.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
He has tweeted about them. Will Kate be there at the State dinner ?
Non EU migration is of course something that Mrs May could have done something about in her 6 years in charge of the Home Office.
I do agree that Hindus, Bhuddists, Sikh and Christian migrants do seem to integrate rather more consistently, perhaps because (apart from Christians) they are non proselytising religions.
https://twitter.com/jeffreygoldberg/status/825749068479655938
Sunil J. Prasannan voted LABOUR at GE2015!
Pacman is allowed to harangue people.
People being treathened is wrong and death threats are illegal.
But what can we do about a Saudi/Iranian cleric issuing a fatwa from outside the country?
I don't know - but we should definitely defend the person under threat and give them protection. As I think Maggie T did do.
In any case, only campaigning in cities has got to be better than only campaigning in cities in ~10/50 states.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLQz-LgrM
Sure, many groups besides the Jews suffered in the Holocaust, who are strangely not mentioned at Yad Vashem or the Holocaust Museum in Washington. But to suggest 'everyone' suffered is utter bollocks.
Indeed, one of the most reprehensible features (and the one that underpinned massive BRD subsidies to Israel) was how the German people mightily profited from it financially.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/825728605472878592
I do agree that European migrants integrate well because of our common European culture and values, including by your preferred measure of mixed anglo-immigrant marriages.
many other non-white cultures) out for sexism?
The people who prevented University Publications printing the Mohammed Cartoons are the same type who wanted to cave in to the Rhodes Must Fall idiots until the donors told them which side their bread was buttered.
In the case of the Motoons they had actually been published months earlier in an Eqyptian Tabloid, but the Universities caved to people who claimed that they were offended.
Really, really worrying.
Not an easy one to call.
Remember these bans are not targeted at them. They are targeted at the WWC in PA, MI and WI.
No more.
It would take a medium competent programmer about 20 minutes to make a robot that will fill that form with random names, temporary email addresses and random postcodes until their heart was content.