politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Angels and Fools. Cyclefree on Trump’s latest Executive Order
Comments
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She'll fudge it, double down on British citizens, and say - assuming Trump backs down on elements of his plan - that all's changed.AlastairMeeks said:
Does she have the numbers in Parliament? She's already backed down once this week and she has to consider what to conserve her political capital for.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.0 -
@The_Taxman
'I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.'
Strange, can't remember petitions or demos when Russia was carpet bombing Syria a few weeks ago.
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Dr Prasannan,
"Why are Lefties so keen to criticise Trump for sexism, but are so reluctant to call Islam (or
many other non-white cultures) out for sexism?"
You are a tease. You already know the answer to that.0 -
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.0 -
The visit will have to go ahead after May publicly acknowledged Trump's acceptance of the invitation.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.0 -
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!The_Taxman said:
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.0 -
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
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Is he thinking about a Trans-Islamic railway line ? That's the only topic he knows about.Dromedary said:
You've said that twice now, Sunil, both times without specifying or arguing for a conclusion.Sunil_Prasannan said:Fact:
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales)
Fact:
Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)0 -
Given 17 million British people voted for Brexit supported by Trump and May backed Remain you could make an argument the average British voter is actually slightly closer to Trump than the PM!The_Taxman said:
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.0 -
Did you not write once that caste system was an evil necessity ?Sunil_Prasannan said:Why are Lefties so keen to criticise Trump for sexism, but are so reluctant to call Islam (or
many other non-white cultures) out for sexism?0 -
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/825718047172358145
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/825723655535620096
I've just taken the 11/10 and think it's a good bet.0 -
And the UK's international standing will be substantially damaged at a time when we can least afford it. I agree it will happen though.TheWhiteRabbit said:
She'll fudge it, double down on British citizens, and say - assuming Trump backs down on elements of his plan - that all's changed.AlastairMeeks said:
Does she have the numbers in Parliament? She's already backed down once this week and she has to consider what to conserve her political capital for.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
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She is just trying to chip away at some of the SNP support. What she says is of little consequence at the moment outside of Scotland.SouthamObserver said:
Not sure the leader of the Scottish Conservative party can be described as being a Scottish nationalist or being on the left of the Labour party.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the peculiar.0 -
That is because the conclusion is so obvious.Dromedary said:
You've said that twice now, Sunil, both times without specifying or arguing for a conclusion.Sunil_Prasannan said:Fact:
Israel = 20,000 sq. km (about the size of Wales)
Fact:
Arab League states = 14,000,000 sq. km (a bit smaller than Russia)0 -
I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.0
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Well said. If only hand holding Theresa could come up with something.SouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
Indeed. So trying to lean on him in the court of public opinion is a waste of time. For the same reasons he is effectively unbrowbeatable. Trying to "educate" him will cost us a potential trade deal for nothing. Obviously if any forth coming trade deal is shite, we walk away, but if wagging out fingers in public will a) achieve nothing b) demonstrate our impotence and c) lost any chance of a (possibly acceptable) deal we might have.RobD said:
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!The_Taxman said:
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?0 -
Why does she have to "react" or at least react any more than she has with last night's statement. In fact one of her merits is that somewhat refreshingly compared to recent Premiers she likes to reflect rather than act in haste and repent at leisure . I am sure she will do what is necessary behind the scenes.Danny565 said:
I think she's doing a decent job with Brexit, and I liked some of her early Labour-ish talk on economic issues (though am now doubting it will be converted into policies). And, ever since she first became Home Secretary, she'd always struck me as someone with a bit of integrity, as compared to most senior Tory MPs.Sean_F said:
Overall, I'd say she's made a good beginning, as PM.Danny565 said:Have to admit, any last remnants of the hope I had for Theresa May have gone over the past few days. In terms of US-UK dealings, she's achieved the incredible feat of making even Blair look like he had a spine.
No more.0 -
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.0 -
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.0 -
I have often done so. Islam is systemically misogynist, amongst many other unpleasant features and I have often said so.Sunil_Prasannan said:Why are Lefties so keen to criticise Trump for sexism, but are so reluctant to call Islam (or
many other non-white cultures) out for sexism?
I do draw a distinction between the sin and the sinner, I have no objection to Muslims themselves.
A quote that comes to mind "While it is unfortunate that the majority of Christians ignore many of their founders teachings, it is fortunate that the majority of Muslims do ignore many of their founders teachings"
In practice all Abrahamic religions have evolved over time to take on aspects of each other. Karen Armstrong's excellent "A History of God" covers this very well. My only disagreement with her is that she is not so well read in Protestant theology, or at least doesn't display it.0 -
So far the most memorable thing she's done as PM is rush to hold hands with Trump within a week of his inauguration.Norm said:In fact one of her merits is that somewhat refreshingly compared to recent Premiers she likes to reflect rather than act in haste and repent at leisure.
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What's the point even holding an election there now, it has been decreedsurbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
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77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.0 -
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.Dixie said:I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
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Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
China, Cuba, North Korea none will face the protests from the left Trump doessurbiton said:
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.Dixie said:I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
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I am going by the swings and demographic change.Dixie said:
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.0 -
We await the 2020 Warren landslide with interest!surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.0 -
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?Jobabob said:
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).SeanT said:And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T0 -
From your link:Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
https://76crimes.com/10-nations-where-the-penalty-for-gay-sex-is-death/
Four of them are among Trump's (Obama's) 7.
From a casual look at the list, they do appear to be the main terrorist breeding grounds.0 -
Incredibly stupid thing to do , are these people really that stupid.RobD said:Apologies if posted before:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38789821 BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg has been told that both ministers had already been talking to US contacts about a possible British exemption to the executive order. Mr Johnson was talking to Mr Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon and senior adviser Jared Kushner, a source said.
I think that would look even worse for the UK, almost as if we are complicit.0 -
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/825728605472878592
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Trump will be the first POTUS to visit DPRK. Cuba is a favourite tourist destination for many Brits, not all of them lefties.HYUFD said:
China, Cuba, North Korea none will face the protests from the left Trump doessurbiton said:
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.Dixie said:I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
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Not sure about that, it is mostly illegal in Muslim North Africa and the Middle East and India apart the Muslim nations of South Asia (albeit so is sex outside marriage in some Arab states)Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
The argument made by RobD is wrong. Both the Dems and GOP would campaign in their bases and the suburbs. The suburbs would get most money and attention spent on them because normally that is where most swing voters live not the cities. Although I think this election was a bit different as trump killed Hillary in rural areas as well as holding his own in the suburbs.Essexit said:
Would they? CGP Grey covers this in a follow-up to his electoral college video. The top *100* cities contain 19.4% of the population. More if you include the wider metro areas, as he concedes.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
In any case, only campaigning in cities has got to be better than only campaigning in cities in ~10/50 states.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLQz-LgrM0 -
She already reacted.Norm said:Why does she have to "react" or at least react any more than she has with last night's statement. In fact one of her merits is that somewhat refreshingly compared to recent Premiers she likes to reflect rather than act in haste and repent at leisure . I am sure she will do what is necessary behind the scenes.
She told Boris to call the US and beg them not to be mean to us0 -
Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.0
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They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.AlsoIndigo said:
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
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Only deal in facts: Brexit and Trump!surbiton said:
I am going by the swings and demographic change.Dixie said:
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.0 -
The argument I was trying to make was that you still have a situation where there will be ignored voters.nunu said:
The argument made by RobD is wrong. Both the Dems and GOP would campaign in their bases and the suburbs. The suburbs would get most money and attention spent on them because normally that is where most swing voters live not the cities. Although I think this election was a bit different as trump killed Hillary in rural areas as well as holding his own in the suburbs.Essexit said:
Would they? CGP Grey covers this in a follow-up to his electoral college video. The top *100* cities contain 19.4% of the population. More if you include the wider metro areas, as he concedes.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
In any case, only campaigning in cities has got to be better than only campaigning in cities in ~10/50 states.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3wLQz-LgrM0 -
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
One of the big problems is that it is almost retroactive. People who have the necessary papers are now being told they can't come. Some while in transit!JohnLilburne said:Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
0 -
If he has not nuked it first or indeed Kim nuked Californiasurbiton said:
Trump will be the first POTUS to visit DPRK. Cuba is a favourite tourist destination for many Brits, not all of them lefties.HYUFD said:
China, Cuba, North Korea none will face the protests from the left Trump doessurbiton said:
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.Dixie said:I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
0 -
They kill their own, they have no democracy, people are scared, they are corrupt. Left wing habits. Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, Zimbabwe etcsurbiton said:
China is a lefty ? The CP is a holding company, that's it.Dixie said:I think Trump is a genius who communicates badly. The Left are howling, but the silent majority will be silently cheering into their beer. The more the Left moan and cry wolf, the more the silent majority vote for right wingers. I don't see anyone in the UK moaning about the 2 million people held in labour camps in China without charge, or the poor Tibetians are brutalized daily. The Left have their favourites! About time they started to have a go at China. They won't because: a) China are mutual Lefties; b) The Left are scared of bullies.
0 -
That's pretty much my attitude to it all too.JohnLilburne said:Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
And also why I voted Leave - to regain the sovereignty to make our own decisions rather than having them imposed from abroad..0 -
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?Jobabob said:
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).SeanT said:And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view
.
0 -
Which is a bit of a silly measure since a lot of those countries are little specs in the Pacific. It does however contain large muslim states, like Indonesia, Pakistan, and most of Northern Africa.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.surbiton said:
I am going by the swings and demographic change.Dixie said:
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.0 -
Mr. M, wouldn't say I was militant, but I was certainly more... forthright about my atheism in the past (quite relaxed about it now).
As for believers being happier, drunks are frequently happier than the sober. It doesn't mean they're right. Or wise.0 -
That's not really a "big" problem. The numbers will not be large and the individual cases will be tidied up and cleared with little publicity as long as the affected individuals don't go all SJW in public.RobD said:
One of the big problems is that it is almost retroactive. People who have the necessary papers are now being told they can't come. Some while in transit!JohnLilburne said:Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
0 -
Good point. Particularly as a US/UK trade deal will probably mean importing lots of cheap rubbish US processed food but not exporting much extra the other way, - as well as jeopardising our food exports to the EU because of standards issues.SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.0 -
https://76crimes.com/10-nations-where-the-penalty-for-gay-sex-is-death/Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
EDIT chestnut beat me to it!0 -
This has got to be one of the worst articles ever written hasn't it?
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/8257561335750533120 -
Yes, that's why it catches a Tory MP, Mo Farah and various other people not usually suspected of terrorist leanings.One has to be careful where one's born, y'know.SouthamObserver said:
It is directed at Moslems, but affects anyone born in the relevant coutries whether citizens or not.isam said:
Is it only Muslims from those countries that are banned then? Other people from those countries are free to come and go?SouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
//twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/825728605472878592
0 -
The talk of a trade deal with the US misses one point. The tariffs currently are pretty low to start of with. The worrying thing is what comes with the deal. Mostly, it will not be for the UK's benefit.AlsoIndigo said:
Indeed. So trying to lean on him in the court of public opinion is a waste of time. For the same reasons he is effectively unbrowbeatable. Trying to "educate" him will cost us a potential trade deal for nothing. Obviously if any forth coming trade deal is shite, we walk away, but if wagging out fingers in public will a) achieve nothing b) demonstrate our impotence and c) lost any chance of a (possibly acceptable) deal we might have.RobD said:
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!The_Taxman said:
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?0 -
Obama won a bigger lead in the Electoral College in 2012 than he did in the popular vote, Hillary did better in the popular vote than she did in the Electoral College, it was really Hillary who was toxic outside urban areas not necessarily the Democratic Party as a whole. I expect Sanders would have done better than Hillary in the industrial Midwest for example but worse in wealthy suburbs of CaliforniaSean_F said:
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.surbiton said:
I am going by the swings and demographic change.Dixie said:
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.0 -
While it's no argument for against the truth of any particular religion, I think the world would be a much less interesting place without religions.John_M said:
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?Jobabob said:
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).SeanT said:And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view.0 -
Quite likely.SouthamObserver said:
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.AlsoIndigo said:
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.0 -
Not really. 30 years ago I was a militant Athiest too. I am no longer.John_M said:
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?Jobabob said:
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).SeanT said:And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view.
Initially I realised my lack of understanding of my own culture, so read around the subject, including the New Testament. Once the ground was prepared it was still a few years before the thunderbolt hit.0 -
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
Typical two faced Tory. Always on the make.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/8257286054728785920 -
I did a quick count of countries but of course population numbers are more significanttlg86 said:
Isn't that because most countries aren't Muslim? Is homosexuality more likely to be illegal in Muslim countries is the question you should be asking.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0 -
My word. Thats one hell of a central mistake.isam said:This has got to be one of the worst articles ever written hasn't it?
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/8257561335750533120 -
Then we walk away...surbiton said:
The talk of a trade deal with the US misses one point. The tariffs currently are pretty low to start of with. The worrying thing is what comes with the deal. Mostly, it will not be for the UK's benefit.AlsoIndigo said:
Indeed. So trying to lean on him in the court of public opinion is a waste of time. For the same reasons he is effectively unbrowbeatable. Trying to "educate" him will cost us a potential trade deal for nothing. Obviously if any forth coming trade deal is shite, we walk away, but if wagging out fingers in public will a) achieve nothing b) demonstrate our impotence and c) lost any chance of a (possibly acceptable) deal we might have.RobD said:
I don't think Trump particularly cares what people outside of the US think of him!The_Taxman said:
I don't think she will back down either. She has to follow through with it now.Essexit said:
I can't see it making it a difference. May doesn't seem the type to back down on this.AlastairMeeks said:
The petition is heading towards 500,000 signatories at a rate of knots.The_Taxman said:I do wonder about this petition requesting the retraction of the State visit by Trump.
I think Trump is a dreadful person and his platform deeply worrying but I see no point shooting ones self in the foot as a country. It is probably the same people calling for the State visit to be retracted who wanted Trump to be banned before the election. The Scottish Nationalists and the left of Labour seem bent on destroying the UK. Corbyn is so extreme he seems to be against everything and in favour of only the extreme.
What I would love to see is a referendum of the British people on it! That would be extremely funny! Obviously the cost is too prohibitive plus the result would be about 90% against with only say 10% for a Trump state visit.
Interestingly, I think if the international left want to really twist the knife into Trump given his reaction to the crowd size at the inauguration is too cite Trump as being less popular than Obama, even less popular than even Clinton with people outside the US. It would really wind him up.
People have been telling us here what a shocking Foreign Secretary Boris is because of all his grandstanding and posturing, and now almost the same people want May to go and pointlessly grandstand and posture, surely not a coincidence ?0 -
Well it's all over the news right nowGeoffM said:
That's not really a "big" problem. The numbers will not be large and the individual cases will be tidied up and cleared with little publicity as long as the affected individuals don't go all SJW in public.RobD said:
One of the big problems is that it is almost retroactive. People who have the necessary papers are now being told they can't come. Some while in transit!JohnLilburne said:Am I the only person who doesn't see a problem? Nationality is a membership club & countries are absolutely entitled to make decisions on who is allowed in.
I think it's on the order of 100s affected. 0 -
It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?Luckyguy1983 said:
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?Jobabob said:
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).SeanT said:And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T0 -
Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.0
-
Mr. Surbiton, indeed.0
-
Trying to do what the Gaffer tells you isn't always a picnic either. But God has always been there when needed for me, despite me not really deserving it. At all.John_M said:
It's odd. When young, I used to be a militant atheist (I spent more time than is healthy trolling the fundies on talk.origins and alt.atheism) and considered myself quite the superior critter.Luckyguy1983 said:
Atheists' fixation with the miracles described in the Gospels is something I've always found distinctly odd. If there is an all-powerful intelligent creator, why on earth would his earthly manifestation not be able to turn water into wine, either by suspending the laws of nature, or by science we don't yet understand?Jobabob said:
While I agree with you that the world would be a better and easier place to live in if people stopped believing in fairy stories about blokes who can turn water into a nice Barolo and orgies with 17 virgins in heaven, your central contention that all liberals are atheists is demonstrably false (alas).SeanT said:And, yes, the key problem in liberal western circles is their feeble understanding of the power of religion. The solace of faith. Liberal lefties are all helpless, decomposing atheists. They think everyone else feels the same anomie and ennui as them, or will come to feel it, once they've bought enough 3D TV's
THEY WON'T
Latterly, I consider myself stunted for seemingly being unable to have faith. Faith seems to provide such comfort for those who suffer loss of loved ones and the grief and mental anguish that goes with that loss. Atheism, while it satisfies Occam's razor, is comfortless. I now envy the religious.
Of course, I appreciate that this is an idiosyncratic view.0 -
Courchevel 1850 is one of the world's most expensive ski resorts, up their with Verbier, Zermatt, Aspen and Beaver Creek.isam said:This has got to be one of the worst articles ever written hasn't it?
https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/825756133575053312
The number of people who are thinking: hhhmmmm, dah'ling, is it Aspen, Courchevel or Bulgaria this year? is precisely zero.0 -
That, or a monumental typo?williamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
0 -
Sanders would certainly done better among blue collar whites, but would he have done worse among college-educated whites? But, it's a good trade off. Blue collar whites are overrepresented in Swing States, but underrepresented in States like California, Texas, or New York, which aren't competitive.HYUFD said:
Obama won a bigger lead in the Electoral College in 2012 than he did in the popular vote, Hillary did better in the popular vote than she did in the Electoral College, it was really Hillary who was toxic outside urban areas not necessarily the Democratic Party as a whole. I expect Sanders would have done better than Hillary in the industrial Midwest for example but worse in wealthy suburbs of CaliforniaSean_F said:
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.surbiton said:
I am going by the swings and demographic change.Dixie said:
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.0 -
Hamon Hamon!williamglenn said:Looks like a massive win for Hamon in the PS primary.
0 -
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.AlsoIndigo said:
Quite likely.SouthamObserver said:
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.AlsoIndigo said:
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.
0 -
-
Dr. Foxinsox, and now you worship Zeus? or Thor?
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?0 -
Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?0 -
I think its all about ineffability or somethingIshmael_Z said:It isn't the feasibility of it so much as the sheer misdirected twattery. Why let h sapiens evolve and then do nothing for 50 000 years before playing silly tricks for a handful of borderline illiterate peasants in the Levant? If he can do that kind of shit why not arrange for cancer not to be a thing, or at least enforce a rule whereby, I don't know, no one aged under 18 had to die at Auschwitz?
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That's already happened what with Trump's comments on torture.Gardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?0 -
Indeed, Sanders won Wisconsin, Michigan and Minnesota in the primaries and Hillary won California, Texas and New YorkSean_F said:
Sanders would certainly done better among blue collar whites, but would he have done worse among college-educated whites? But, it's a good trade off. Blue collar whites are overrepresented in Swing States, but underrepresented in States like California, Texas, or New York, which aren't competitive.HYUFD said:
Obama won a bigger lead in the Electoral College in 2012 than he did in the popular vote, Hillary did better in the popular vote than she did in the Electoral College, it was really Hillary who was toxic outside urban areas not necessarily the Democratic Party as a whole. I expect Sanders would have done better than Hillary in the industrial Midwest for example but worse in wealthy suburbs of CaliforniaSean_F said:
Demographic change was supposed to power the Democrats to an unassailable lead. It didn't work out like that.surbiton said:
I am going by the swings and demographic change.Dixie said:
majority said Trump would lose 2016 election. Don't listen to the Liberal elite and media. People are loving Trump.surbiton said:
Not after Trump. AZ will go in 2020.Sean_F said:
The Republicans do pretty well among Hispanic voters in Texas. The real battleground is College-educated Whites in the suburbs of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio. If the Republicans regain the level of support that Romney had with these voters, they'll win Texas very easily.surbiton said:
TX will be competitive in 2020 and certainly in 2024 unless all the Hispanics are deported by then.RobD said:
You would have exactly the same problem if it was popular vote - they would only visit the largest cities.surbiton said:
How many States do candidates actually campaign in ? Who went to Alaska, Montana......California [ apart from fund raising ], New York, Texas last time in the Presidential election ? I could name another thirty states.
The system is thoroughly undemocratic in every way.
Also, on CA.. no doubt republican turnout is depressed since it's a shoe-in for the dems. You could say the same for TX, although that was mooted as being competitive this cycle.
Nevada, Maine, Minnesota, and New Hampshire are now much more vulnerable to the Republicans than Texas is to the Democrats.0 -
The UK government's primary job is to protect British citizens not to reward those who discriminate against them.HYUFD said:
I think funding terrorist organisations who launched attacks against British citizens, hacking the UK government and very dubious human rights records may be a little more significant than a travel restrictionSouthamObserver said:
None of whom have banned UK citizens from entering their countries because of where they were born. I think we all get that we have to entertain the leaders of unpleasant regimes, but surely discriminating against British citizens who were not born in approved locations is not something we should be honouring.HYUFD said:
Yes, done and dusted with the obvious point that no petitions as yet against state visits by Putin, the Chinese President or the King of Saudi ArabiaSouthamObserver said:Presumably we have done this:
https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/825728605472878592
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There is actually a movement in Greece to restore worship of Zeus et al. It's very hard right.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, and now you worship Zeus? or Thor?
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?0 -
I'm an atheist, but think the influence of Christianity on Britain has been a net positive. Our country's architecture is made richer by our cathedrals and churches for one.0
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I think you are overlooking how mind meltingly shallow Trump is, the state visit isn't about trade, he wants his picture taken with the Queen.SouthamObserver said:
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.AlsoIndigo said:
Quite likely.SouthamObserver said:
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.AlsoIndigo said:
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.0 -
He wants to be fawned over , he is the Big Dog and he will have big demands, to which the UK will just say " how high should I jump your Trumpness"SouthamObserver said:
My point is that no deal Trump dictates to us will be worth the harm to the UK's international reputation that fawning at his feet does. If a trade deal with the UK is in the US's interests Trump doesn't need a state visit. If it's not, what's the point? The EU is a big market that China will be prepared to offer concessions to in order to get a deal done.AlsoIndigo said:
Quite likely.SouthamObserver said:
They will be terms dictated by a man who bans MPs and knights of the realm from entering the US because he does not like where they were born.AlsoIndigo said:
We don't know what the terms are yet, and if we going around grandstanding, we wont.SouthamObserver said:
I am all for trade deals, but not ones of minor use done at the expense of the UK's reputation.Norm said:
Should we walk away from China given they hold 1200 political prisoners rather than seek a trade deal?SouthamObserver said:
Why do we want a trade deal at any cost? If we're happy to leave a single market over sovereignty, why is a sub-optimal agreement with Trump's America worth the price of a substantially diminished international reputation. UK soft power is (was?) one of our greatest assets.AlsoIndigo said:
If she says something or nothing it will make no difference to Trump, but one alternative costs us a trade deal.SandyRentool said:
Of course. Trade deals are so much more important than human rights.AlsoIndigo said:
and when Trump tells her to piss off, oh and by the way forget that trade deal we were talking about, then what ? Good old Ed, never much good at politics.Scott_P said:@Ed_Miliband: .@theresa_may You're the Prime Minister. Get on the phone to the President and tell him the ban cannot stand. And do it today.
Central to our foreign policy.
Not to mention that posturing impotently while Trump ignores us is not going to enhance our reputation.
and the EU is looking for a trade deal with a country run by a real dictator that holds over a thousand political prisoners, I am not sure what your point is, realpolitik is about doing deals with unpleasant people, largely because if we dont someone else (probably also unpleasant) will, and the voters will want to know why.0 -
Trump Petition hits 500,000 !!!0
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500,000 signatures to the petition up now.0
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Sean Spicer is an idiotGardenwalker said:Sean Spicer now saying that the EO was inspired by an "imminent threat".
Thought experiment. How low would Trump have to stoop before the UK had to consider it's military / intelligence connections?
https://twitter.com/rupertmyers/status/8256868102568960000 -
MD , he only had two faces , way way behind your average Tory.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, and now you worship Zeus? or Thor?
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?0 -
Do they really believe Zeus and co exist? Or do they want them restored to bring back the 'tradition'?Sean_F said:
There is actually a movement in Greece to restore worship of Zeus et al. It's very hard right.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, and now you worship Zeus? or Thor?
Mr. G, are you accusing Janus of being a Conservative?
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Is it true that virtually all the nations banning gays are majority non-white?RobD said:
Interestingly, that number is also 33.HYUFD said:
How many are plurality Muslim though? I expect a majorityRobD said:
Roger is correct.. 33 of the 75 countries listed (not counting ISIS as a country) are majority Muslim. And of majority Muslim countries, only half have such a law.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Doesn't look right to me. Based on the map almost all (with the exception of parts of west and southern Africa) are majority Muslim.Roger said:
77 countries where homosexuality is illegal. The majority are not Muslim
https://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/0
