politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB might get a Stoke Central boost by NOT having Tristram Hun

System · January 2017

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB might get a Stoke Central boost by NOT having Tristram Hunt as their candidate

Over the past week there’s been a rush to bet on UKIP in the Stoke Central by-election. This has gathered apace and now the best you can get is about 11/8. This has been driven by the demographics of the seat, the way it went so strongly for LEAVE at the referendum, and the fact that the leader of UKIP has decided to be the candidate.

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles · January 2017

First again

The reason I'm not backing UKIP here isn't because of their poor performances in FPTP elections, but because Mrs May's recent plans is quite UKIPy.

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.

TheScreamingEagles · January 2017

Still disappointed by the lack of a bar chart on that Lib Dem leaflet.

CD13 · January 2017

Yesterday, I'd have said Ukip had no chance. Today, they've got a very small chance.

Ms Apocalypse, I have no idea what women think, but I do have an inkling of what most men think.

John_M · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.

Every topic on here is dominated by men, as PB has never had a gender-balanced set of contributors in the 11-odd years I've been hanging around this den of iniquity.

I do agree that some of the lines of argument were bizarre. I find it sad that 'never kissed a Tory' is a thing, but most relationships need common views and interests in order to thrive, so it's just one of those things.

SandyRentool · January 2017

With Nuttall as the Kipper candidate, and the much easier travel, the media will focus 90% on Stoke, with Copeland barely getting a look-in.

How this will impact the voting, pass.

MarqueeMark · January 2017

Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?

TheScreamingEagles · January 2017

Has John Harris been to Stoke? His videos are great in capturing the zeitgeist.

If UKIP do pull it off, I wonder if it'll be like the Dunfermline and West Fife by-election of 2006 on the betting front?

John_M · January 2017

MarqueeMark said:
Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?

I just don't see the point of UKIP. Lancaster House speech laid waste to their value prop.

Stark_Dawning · January 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:
First again

The reason I'm not backing UKIP here isn't because of their poor performances in FPTP elections, but because Mrs May's recent plans is quite UKIPy.

Of course, this could all be a brilliant deception. UKIP are probably the Tories' biggest potential headache at the moment - in terms of defections and vote splitting. If Theresa can strangle UKIP to death with Hard Brexit, then the Tory Right will have no option but to stay on her lap, and she can then go after the Lib Dems and Labour on the middle ground. Is she picking off her enemies one by one?

CarlottaVance · January 2017

Agree - not having Hunt will help - tho it may depend on which local candidate they select....

Several local candidates have already publicly expressed their intention to run, including the Royal Stoke A&E doctor and army reservist Stephen Hitchin, the former Newcastle-under-Lyme council leader Mike Stubbs, the councillor and local shopkeeper Chris Spence, and the former Labour candidate for Staffordshire Moorlands, Trudie McGuinness.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-copeland-byelection-gillian-troughton

HYUFD · January 2017

SandyRentool said:
With Nuttall as the Kipper candidate, and the much easier travel, the media will focus 90% on Stoke, with Copeland barely getting a look-in.

How this will impact the voting, pass.

The Tories likely win Copeland and get all the headlines after the results, Labour hold Stoke

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
Every topic on here is dominated by men, as PB has never had a gender-balanced set of contributors in the 11-odd years I've been hanging around this den of iniquity.

I do agree that some of the lines of argument were bizarre. I find it sad that 'never kissed a Tory' is a thing, but most relationships need common views and interests in order to thrive, so it's just one of those things.

On your first point: it's true to say there are more male voices than female ones on this site - but I can still recall at least one/some female voice in most of the conversations I've read on here. With that conversation I recall there being no female voice to offer a perspective either way. I guess that was what I was getting at.

On your second point, I agree 100%.

@CD13 And what do you believe most men think?

SimonStClare · January 2017

This may be Paul Nuttall’s only chance at becoming an MP before GE2020, can’t blame him for trying. Poor timing to become leader imho, just as UKIP’s numbers appear to be waning.

YellowSubmarine · January 2017

I chipped in a tenner to the A50 case Crowdfunder and it's the best political donation I've ever made. It's a glorious judgement upholding principles of parliamentary soveriegnty that predate the Civil War. Or indeed Runnymede.

Though I think PB is right to focus on the devolution angle. As a non lawyer everything I'd read suggested the devolution appeal was weak. So the result is no surprise. But the brevity and brutality of the dismissal of the Sewell Convention in the judgement is breathtaking. It confirms the UK's nature as an entirely unitary state in a way nothing post 1997 has. In the current climate it's undoubtedly a bomb with albeit it a long fuse.

Still all to play for. Brexit is a Supertanker with the engine still running. But today adds a few barnacles to the boat. We've two years know to change some leave voters minds and/or supression their turnout. Anything can happen next in two years. It's an extraordinary period in UK politics. Anything could happen.

TheScreamingEagles · January 2017

SimonStClare said:
This may be Paul Nuttall’s only chance at becoming an MP before GE2020, can’t blame him for trying. Poor timing to become leader imho, just as UKIP’s numbers appear to be waning.

Has he confirmed he's no longer standing in Leigh if he loses in Stoke?

Morris_Dancer · January 2017

Good afternoon, everyone.

I agree Hunt's absence is helpful. But Corbyn's presence won't be.

HYUFD · January 2017

SimonStClare said:
This may be Paul Nuttall’s only chance at becoming an MP before GE2020, can’t blame him for trying. Poor timing to become leader imho, just as UKIP’s numbers appear to be waning.

Depends if May makes any concessions on EU budget contributions, free movement etc in the Brexit deal, ironically the softer the Brexit the better for UKIP, the harder the Brexit the better for the LDs

SimonStClare · January 2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

SimonStClare said:
This may be Paul Nuttall’s only chance at becoming an MP before GE2020, can’t blame him for trying. Poor timing to become leader imho, just as UKIP’s numbers appear to be waning.
Has he confirmed he's no longer standing in Leigh if he loses in Stoke?

Not officially AFAIK, however he stands less chance in Andy Burnham's old seat than Stoke.

TheWhiteRabbit · January 2017

"Though I think PB is right to focus on the devolution angle. As a non lawyer everything I'd read suggested the devolution appeal was weak. So the result is no surprise. But the brevity and brutality of the dismissal of the Sewell Convention in the judgement is breathtaking. It confirms the UK's nature as an entirely unitary state in a way nothing post 1997 has. In the current climate it's undoubtedly a bomb with albeit it a long fuse."

The Sewel Convention does not apply as foreign affairs is not a devolved matter. The convention, such that it is, remains untouched.

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.

david_herdson · January 2017

I agree with Mike that Lab is the value bet.

Where I would disagree slightly is with regard to the LD messaging. Attacking Labour does not, of itself, provide a reason to vote Lib Dem. It might just as well push voters to UKIP or, less probably, the Tories. The party that benefits - other than where there are ideological boundaries - will be the party best placed to oppose Labour.

david_herdson · January 2017

MarqueeMark said:
Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?

Farage was elected, just not to Westminster.

MarqueeMark · January 2017

John_M said:

MarqueeMark said:
Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?
I just don't see the point of UKIP. Lancaster House speech laid waste to their value prop.

I think that the Tories could get a LOT of mileage out of being the party that allowed you even to have a say on the EU. The records of both Labour and the LibDems are very shabby on this.

And as you say, what is UKIP for? Independence from what? The EU? We will have that as soon as Article 50 is served. Fox duly shot. UKIP, rather than the LibDems, can play the "Look around you - Labour have taken you for granted for decades" card. But it is the Tories that have actually got an argument to make for having done something to break through that. Not that they will get the credit and break through 25%. And if UKIP DO manage to get their act together, will likely go markedly backwards in this by-election.

John_M · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of want the hot ones want is a bit different to yours then.

One issue with Sean's comment is that it's just a variation on the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.

Carolus_Rex · January 2017

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of want the hot ones want is a bit different to yours then.
One issue with Sean's comment is that it's just a variation on the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.

I assume it was based on random polling among 23 year old interns of his acquaintance. Possibly not a representative sample.

TOPPING · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.

Don't forget @SeanT is a very successful author, as he keeps reminding us.

His "hot ones," therefore, are likely to obey the Mrs Merton paradox.

foxinsoxuk · January 2017

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
Every topic on here is dominated by men, as PB has never had a gender-balanced set of contributors in the 11-odd years I've been hanging around this den of iniquity.

I do agree that some of the lines of argument were bizarre. I find it sad that 'never kissed a Tory' is a thing, but most relationships need common views and interests in order to thrive, so it's just one of those things.

Labour generally agree that Clem Attlee was their greatest PM, and he famously not only kissed a Tory, his wife was one!.

As a happy Beta male, I don't feel that I have missed out. The sort of partners attracted to gentle and thoughtful Beta male are vastly preferable. Long term beats short term every time.

foxinsoxuk · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.

I am not sure that it is. SeanTs girlfriends seem to wise up pretty quickly and move on.

YellowSubmarine · January 2017

BBC say Labour *will* be whipped to support A50 bill.

isam · January 2017

I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning

williamglenn · January 2017

FPT

SeanT said:

williamglenn said:

SeanT said:

williamglenn said:

SeanT said:

YellowSubmarine said:
I agree with @SeanT on this. Sturgeon's least worst option at the moment is for May to block #indyref2. The best chance of getting May to refuse a S30 order is ask for it early coinciding with the A50 negotiations. I don't see how any UK PM could have both EU withdrawal and an #indyref going on at the same time. With God knows what going on at the same time. The fact Sturgeon is a long a LCM anyway despite today's ruling suggests she's slightly upping the ante.

The difficulty s the might now be beyond bluff where one side will fold. It might be the Railway Time tables of August.
IIRC (maybe I don't), TMay has very nearly said this, explicitly - she couldn't have an indyref2 going on at the same time as Brexit. Presumably the SNP know this, so it's all just orchestral maneuvers in the dark.
She should have given that more weight when deciding to go for hard Brexit. She's playing for high stakes and is likely to lose.
FFS. You're just thick. I might stop arguing with you. The legislation allowing a 2nd referendum must come from Westminster. TMay can simply refuse.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14813761.Nicola_Sturgeon_will_need_Westminster_s_permission_to_hold_second_independence_referendum__draft_bill_reveals/
The Section 30 order goes through parliament. I think there'd be a clear majority in favour of it. Some Tory rebels would vote for it anyway hoping to get shot of Scotland.
Jesus. No. They really wouldn't. And nor would many Labour MPs, seeing as a Scottish revival - at some distant point in the future - is their main, perhaps only hope of winning a proper majority.

Also the political argument for avoiding indyref during Brexit is overwhelming. It really would be a constitutional clusterfuck. Basically undo-able. Chaos upon chaos. Westminster would refuse, and rightly so, and Sturgeon would be happy and pocket the grievance.

Brexit is a constitutional clusterfuck whichever way you cut it. How could MPs justify going against the logic of self-determination while pursuing a Brexit policy based on the same principle?

If won, an independence referendum in Scotland would also be the best way of walking back Brexit in the rUK.

david_herdson · January 2017

John_M said:

MarqueeMark said:
Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?
I just don't see the point of UKIP. Lancaster House speech laid waste to their value prop.

1. Europe is more than just the EU. They can still campaign on withdrawal from ECHR, for example.
2. Brexit might not be as hard as they'd like so there are still issues there.
3. UKIP is also a domestic policy party and can run as a populist UK version of Trump: protectionist, flag-waving and noisy. Others can play to that crowd but none so authentically.

MarqueeMark · January 2017

There is a case to be made that Hunt actually did an OK job at arresting Labour's decline in Stoke Central. Labour's vote had been in dramatic decline since 1997:

1997 - Labour vote: 66.2% Mark Fisher MP - Labour vote +8.2%
2001 - Labour vote: 60.7% Mark Fisher MP - Labour vote -5.5%
2005 - Labour vote: 52.9% Mark Fisher MP - Labour vote -7.8%
2010 - Labour vote: 38.8% Tristram Hunt MP - Labour vote -14.1%
2015 - Labour vote: 39.3% Tristram Hunt MP - Labour vote +0.5%

You could argue that as a candidate in 2010, maybe he put off a lot of Labour voters, but had at least stabilised his support by 2015.

foxinsoxuk · January 2017

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning

Laying UKIP in Stoke is where the value is. I reckon they will lose at least as much share to the Tories as they gain from Labour.

TOPPING · January 2017

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning

Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.

HurstLlama · January 2017

MarqueeMark said:

John_M said:

MarqueeMark said:
Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?
I just don't see the point of UKIP. Lancaster House speech laid waste to their value prop.
I think that the Tories could get a LOT of mileage out of being the party that allowed you even to have a say on the EU. The records of both Labour and the LibDems are very shabby on this.

And as you say, what is UKIP for? Independence from what? The EU? We will have that as soon as Article 50 is served. Fox duly shot. UKIP, rather than the LibDems, can play the "Look around you - Labour have taken you for granted for decades" card. But it is the Tories that have actually got an argument to make for having done something to break through that. Not that they will get the credit and break through 25%. And if UKIP DO manage to get their act together, will likely go markedly backwards in this by-election.

Mr. Mark, as a former UKIP supporter and voter I tend to agree. The party had one real reason for existing and that has now been achieved, the UK will leave the EU. So why should it continue to exist? UKIP and Farage may be hated and derided on here but it has been the most successful pressure group (and Farage one of the most influential politicians never to have been a member of the House) in modern times. Only CAMRA has in my view been more successful in achieving its aims.

There is a market, I think, for a political party to replace Labour as representing the "Working Classes" or at any rate for which people who would have traditionally supported Labour could and would vote for. Could UKIP reinvent itself to fill that space? I doubt it, though it is not impossible.

williamglenn · January 2017

Sigmar Gabriel pulls out of race to be the SPD's Chancellor candidate in Germany.

MarqueeMark · January 2017

TheWhiteRabbit said:
The Sewel Convention does not apply as foreign affairs is not a devolved matter. The convention, such that it is, remains untouched.

Probably as well. The SNP would have French nukes based up the Clyde if they thought it would piss off Westminster....

Scott_P · January 2017

@Reuters: BREAKING Trump, at automaker CEO meeting, cites pledge to cut regulations, says environmentalism is out of control.

midwinter · January 2017

John_M said:

MarqueeMark said:
Is Nuttall going to become the new Farage - that is, a leader who can't get elected by the voters?
I just don't see the point of UKIP. Lancaster House speech laid waste to their value prop.

Although you're absolutely right they will still help the Tories by attracting ex Labour voters who won't countenance voting Tory.

williamglenn · January 2017

TheWhiteRabbit said:
The Sewel Convention does not apply as foreign affairs is not a devolved matter. The convention, such that it is, remains untouched.

The judgement from the Supreme Court went the way it did precisely because leaving the EU is not merely a matter of foreign affairs.

MarqueeMark · January 2017

HurstLlama said:
There is a market, I think, for a political party to replace Labour as representing the "Working Classes" or at any rate for which people who would have traditionally supported Labour could and would vote for. Could UKIP reinvent itself to fill that space? I doubt it, though it is not impossible.

At a local level, the LibDems have been able to do that, in gaining big city councils in the North - but once they gain power, the gloss soon wears off with the voters and Labour get back in control again.

Pulpstar · January 2017

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning

Best of luck, I'm with Mike on this one

isam · January 2017

Remember when the sympathisers were taunting people on here for supposing Esteban Santiago might have been a follower of the religion of peace?

https://twitter.com/cnn/status/821404456315158529

isam · January 2017

.

rcs1000 · January 2017

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning

Won't the Article 50 Enabling Bill will have become an Act by the time of the by-election, with Labour having voted for it?

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

SeanT said:

Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian

Taller men is a physical preference, not a personality preference. I like taller guys, but if I meet a 5'8 guy who I like I'm not going to turn him down based on him not being over 6'0.

On your second point: that's one 'controversial' study. No evidence from your link that it's findings are accepted by the scientific community as a whole.

The porn example is flawed because most women don't watch porn. The vast majority of porn watchers are men, and a range of studies show this.

SandyRentool · January 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Laying UKIP in Stoke is where the value is. I reckon they will lose at least as much share to the Tories as they gain from Labour.

Has anyone locked in a profit by backing UKIP before Nuttall was confirmed as the candidate and then laying now?

(I only ask because I suggested this approach a few days ago when Nuttall was rumoured to be getting the nod)

isam · January 2017

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.

If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.

Carolus_Rex · January 2017

SeanT said:

TOPPING said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.
Don't forget @SeanT is a very successful author, as he keeps reminding us.

His "hot ones," therefore, are likely to obey the Mrs Merton paradox.
Oh, for sure. But they REALLY are hot. Like, REALLY.

One day I will be a reduced old fool, with a frump of a 58 year old girlfriend, or more likely entirely alone and sad. It's inevitable. It will happen.

But not yet.

And there will come a day when youth will pass away
What will they say about me?
When the end comes, I know
He was just a gigolo
Life goes on without me...

isam · January 2017

Pulpstar said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Best of luck, I'm with Mike on this one

Libs can't win
Cons aren't trying

I'm sure the market will move ukips way further

welshowl · January 2017

@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.

isam · January 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Laying UKIP in Stoke is where the value is. I reckon they will lose at least as much share to the Tories as they gain from Labour.

What price are you laying?

Scott_P · January 2017

SandyRentool said:
Has anyone locked in a profit by backing UKIP before Nuttall was confirmed as the candidate and then laying now?

(I only ask because I suggested this approach a few days ago when Nuttall was rumoured to be getting the nod)

Yes

John_M · January 2017

TIL that the shortest bill consisted of 70 words, with the statute itself amounting to a mere 27. We should try and break that record.

Sean_F · January 2017

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've .
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Justersation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.
Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian

Sylvia Plath certainly thought that "Every woman adores a fascist, the boot in the face, the brute brute heart of a brute like you."

not_on_fire · January 2017

John_M said:
TIL that the shortest bill consisted of 70 words, with the statute itself amounting to a mere 27. We should try and break that record.

Easy - the bill will just say "Brexit means Brexit"

williamglenn · January 2017

welshowl said:
@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.

Because of the psychological blow combined with pragmatically facing up to the practicalities of it. Most people don't really think they'd vote for independence. If they did it in a way that was seen to be choosing Europe over the UK, against a background of Europe having weathered the storms of nationalism, it would give many in England and Wales reason to rethink their assumptions about whether leaving the EU really offered a brighter future.

foxinsoxuk · January 2017

isam said:

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Laying UKIP in Stoke is where the value is. I reckon they will lose at least as much share to the Tories as they gain from Labour.
What price are you laying?

I laid a bit on Betfair at 2.76

Probably some more to come when the Labour candidate is known, and nominations close.

HurstLlama · January 2017

MarqueeMark said:

HurstLlama said:
There is a market, I think, for a political party to replace Labour as representing the "Working Classes" or at any rate for which people who would have traditionally supported Labour could and would vote for. Could UKIP reinvent itself to fill that space? I doubt it, though it is not impossible.
At a local level, the LibDems have been able to do that, in gaining big city councils in the North - but once they gain power, the gloss soon wears off with the voters and Labour get back in control again.

Fair go, Mr. Mark, but two thoughts:

Firstly, why does the gloss soon wear off? Perhaps because the voters realise the LibDems are not actually on their side?

Secondly, the big decisions are not made at local level they are made at Westminster where the LibDems have 9 MPs (and how many of those are from seats decided by the "Working classes"?).

I think I 'll stand by my view that there is a gap in the market for a party to replace Labour, but I doubt UKIP is that party.

UKIP was an immensely successful pressure group but I very much doubt it has the skills and resources to invent itself as a full on political party. However, perhaps a bit over a hundred years ago people were saying that about the Labour Party.

Carolus_Rex · January 2017

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:
@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.
Because of the psychological blow combined with pragmatically facing up to the practicalities of it. Most people don't really think they'd vote for independence. If they did it in a way that was seen to be choosing Europe over the UK, against a background of Europe having weathered the storms of nationalism, it would give many in England and Wales reason to rethink their assumptions about whether leaving the EU really offered a brighter future.

Why? Why would Scotland voting for independence from the UK ( which is not the same thing as "choosing Europe over the UK") change any minds in England and Wales?

Can't see the logic of that at all. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

Another point on the porn thing: That what someone wants in their sex life doesn't necessarily reflect the dynamic they want within their relationship as a whole.

isam · January 2017

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:

foxinsoxuk said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Laying UKIP in Stoke is where the value is. I reckon they will lose at least as much share to the Tories as they gain from Labour.
What price are you laying?
I laid a bit on Betfair at 2.76

Probably some more to come when the Labour candidate is known, and nominations close.

Want to lay 2.6 now?

TOPPING · January 2017

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.
If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.

Well quite obviously I didn't see that.

What I find strange is that the SC judgement is pretty straightforward. Parliament must be consulted, for valid constitutional reasons, all with precedent, before A50 can be triggered.

Easy peasy.

Why will the denizens of Stoke be so unable to grasp such a straightforward point, which is presumably what your UKIP bet is predicated upon.

SandyRentool · January 2017

"Theresa May will visit Turkey on Saturday for talks with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Downing Street has said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38733081

Why not go for a hat-trick and meet Putin on Sunday?

nunu · January 2017

That finger pointing to the sky is not an isis sign ffs. Thats like saying someone is a BNP supporter because they fly the union jack.

welshowl · January 2017

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:
@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.
Because of the psychological blow combined with pragmatically facing up to the practicalities of it. Most people don't really think they'd vote for independence. If they did it in a way that was seen to be choosing Europe over the UK, against a background of Europe having weathered the storms of nationalism, it would give many in England and Wales reason to rethink their assumptions about whether leaving the EU really offered a brighter future.

Can't see that. People down here would cussedly dig in, and string the barbed wire across from Solway Firth to Berwick (metaphorically of course).

Wulfrun_Phil · January 2017

MarqueeMark said:
There is a case to be made that Hunt actually did an OK job at arresting Labour's decline in Stoke Central. Labour's vote had been in dramatic decline since 1997:

1997 - Labour vote: 66.2% Mark Fisher MP - Labour vote +8.2%
2001 - Labour vote: 60.7% Mark Fisher MP - Labour vote -5.5%
2005 - Labour vote: 52.9% Mark Fisher MP - Labour vote -7.8%
2010 - Labour vote: 38.8% Tristram Hunt MP - Labour vote -14.1%
2015 - Labour vote: 39.3% Tristram Hunt MP - Labour vote +0.5%

You could argue that as a candidate in 2010, maybe he put off a lot of Labour voters, but had at least stabilised his support by 2015.

You would always expect a previously newly elected MP seeking reelection to improve their vote share on the back of assiduous constituency work. What's more the Labour vote went up by +3.6% in England in 2015 and by +6.0% where unemployment was above average (Cowley and Kavenagh, Table A1.5).

So Hunt had everything going for him in 2015, and thus his virtual inability to increase the Labour share was a pretty appalling local performance.

isam · January 2017

rcs1000 said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Won't the Article 50 Enabling Bill will have become an Act by the time of the by-election, with Labour having voted for it?

Maybe. We'll see how many do vote for it. The ones that don't will be on every leaflet/internet ad.

John_M · January 2017

Sean_F said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've .
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Justersation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.
Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Sylvia Plath certainly thought that "Every woman adores a fascist, the boot in the face, the brute brute heart of a brute like you."

The tragic Sylvia is not really a great source of wisdom on this topic.

GIN1138 · January 2017

Interesting day on PB - From Brexit to Porn via Donald Trump!

rkrkrk · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:
Another point on the porn thing: That what someone wants in their sex life doesn't necessarily reflect the dynamic they want within their relationship as a whole.

Indeed it may almost be the opposite.

Blue_rog · January 2017

I think the Government should also press ahead with the Great Reform Bill with a trigger date of when Article 50 is completed and we formally leave the EU. When passed, it can always be pointed to as the bill where all MP's can debate the retention or abolition of any part of the EU laws that have passed into UK law. It may make reporting on the negotiations over the next couple of years a bit easier int he HoC

Theuniondivvie · January 2017

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument. When I was at uni (and even now post uni among my group of friends), generally if you were a liberal left girl you weren't dating a Tory. I don't know why so many Conservative/right wing men have such an issue with this. Yesterday's conversation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Justersation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.
Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian

Sounds like you need a focus group before you go on the pull.

isam · January 2017

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.
If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.
Well quite obviously I didn't see that.

What I find strange is that the SC judgement is pretty straightforward. Parliament must be consulted, for valid constitutional reasons, all with precedent, before A50 can be triggered.

Easy peasy.

Why will the denizens of Stoke be so unable to grasp such a straightforward point, which is presumably what your UKIP bet is predicated upon.

I cannot stand your patronising, condescending tone and find it irritating to converse with you.

I think this is a good thing for Ukip, if you think differently you can lay me a bet?

Cyclefree · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Taller men is a physical preference, not a personality preference. I like taller guys, but if I meet a 5'8 guy who I like I'm not going to turn him down based on him not being over 6'0.

On your second point: that's one 'controversial' study. No evidence from your link that it's findings are accepted by the scientific community as a whole.

The porn example is flawed because most women don't watch porn. The vast majority of porn watchers are men, and a range of studies show this.

What women want is a lover who makes them feel desirable and desired, who makes them feel good - more than good, absolutely BLOODY WONDERFUL - and who has some imagination and a sense of humour.

It's not hard, chaps.

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2017

GIN1138 said:
Interesting day on PB - From Brexit to Porn via Donald Trump!

What's Teresa* May's favourite breakfast cereal?

PORN flakes!

(I'll get me dirty mac...)

*spelling intentional!

williamglenn · January 2017

Carolus_Rex said:

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:
@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.
Because of the psychological blow combined with pragmatically facing up to the practicalities of it. Most people don't really think they'd vote for independence. If they did it in a way that was seen to be choosing Europe over the UK, against a background of Europe having weathered the storms of nationalism, it would give many in England and Wales reason to rethink their assumptions about whether leaving the EU really offered a brighter future.
Why? Why would Scotland voting for independence from the UK ( which is not the same thing as "choosing Europe over the UK") change any minds in England and Wales?

Can't see the logic of that at all. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.

Almost everyone on the Leave side is confidently predicting that Scotland won't leave, and even that Brexit makes it harder. It's surely not crazy to think that there will be an effect if these predictions turn out to be faulty.

Remember Theresa May came to power saying that protecting the 'much more precious' union with Scotland was a priority. If her hard Brexit plan instead drives them away, can she survive? Wouldn't the countries she's courting for trade deals not look at events and wonder if they're backing a loser?

YBarddCwsc · January 2017

Sean_F said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've .
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Justersation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.
Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Sylvia Plath certainly thought that "Every woman adores a fascist, the boot in the face, the brute brute heart of a brute like you."

But, that was her father and the pain from his early death, "Daddy you bastard, I'm through"

TOPPING · January 2017

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.
If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.
Well quite obviously I didn't see that.

What I find strange is that the SC judgement is pretty straightforward. Parliament must be consulted, for valid constitutional reasons, all with precedent, before A50 can be triggered.

Easy peasy.

Why will the denizens of Stoke be so unable to grasp such a straightforward point, which is presumably what your UKIP bet is predicated upon.
I cannot stand your patronising, condescending tone and find it irritating to converse with you.

I think this is a good thing for Ukip, if you think differently you can lay me a bet?

Wow issues much? Please feel free not to converse with me if it winds you up that much, we'll both manage.

And the only bet I ever had with you I lost. I am tempted, however, this time. I'm happy to bet you £10 that UKIP won't win Stoke.

Stark_Dawning · January 2017

Sean_F said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've .
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Justersation alone makes clear the big differences in values between the right and liberal left that makes such a reluctance understandable.
No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type, but most of the really hot ones do.
My experience of what the ''hot ones'' want is a bit different to yours then.
Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Sylvia Plath certainly thought that "Every woman adores a fascist, the boot in the face, the brute brute heart of a brute like you."

But she didn't like Ted much in the end though, and he never came across as a 'New Man' to me.

Cyclefree · January 2017

SeanT said:

nunu said:
That finger pointing to the sky is not an isis sign ffs. Thats like saying someone is a BNP supporter because they fly the union jack.
But if the flag waver also believed in white supremacy, you'd have good reason to be suspicious. And this Muslim woman appears to support sharia law. That is to say: she supports a system which says women are intrinsically inferior to men, the way Nazis believed Jews were intrinsically inferior to Germans

Sharia law must be driven to the extremes and disallowed. It should not be part of our discourse. It is no better than outright racism, indeed fascism.

It has been declared to be incompatible with the ECHR - see the Court's report for 2003.

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:
Another point on the porn thing: That what someone wants in their sex life doesn't necessarily reflect the dynamic they want within their relationship as a whole.

Sex life? What sex life?

isam · January 2017

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.
If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.
Well quite obviously I didn't see that.

What I find strange is that the SC judgement is pretty straightforward. Parliament must be consulted, for valid constitutional reasons, all with precedent, before A50 can be triggered.

Easy peasy.

Why will the denizens of Stoke be so unable to grasp such a straightforward point, which is presumably what your UKIP bet is predicated upon.
I cannot stand your patronising, condescending tone and find it irritating to converse with you.

I think this is a good thing for Ukip, if you think differently you can lay me a bet?
Wow issues much? Please feel free not to converse with me if it winds you up that much, we'll both manage.

And the only bet I ever had with you I lost. I am tempted, however, this time. I'm happy to bet you £10 that UKIP won't win Stoke.

Is it an issue to find someone extremely annoying? If so I have them!

Ok what price are you offering?

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

SeanT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Taller men is a physical preference, not a personality preference. I like taller guys, but if I meet a 5'8 guy who I like I'm not going to turn him down based on him not being over 6'0.

On your second point: that's one 'controversial' study. No evidence from your link that it's findings are accepted by the scientific community as a whole.

The porn example is flawed because most women don't watch porn. The vast majority of porn watchers are men, and a range of studies show this.
Actually women are catching up in their porn watching. In advanced western countries.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2507752/Over-half-women-regularly-watch-porn-daring-40-admit-making-own.html

I suspect part of the reason women didn't watch it, or wouldn't previously admit to it, is because of male repression of female sexuality. Surely you don't support that?

Besides, I prefer the women who watch porn. It means they are into sex, and uninhibited. This is good.

There are some studies which do claim the above. However most studies as a whole show that generally men are generally the watchers of porn. Even among the studies which show an increased amount of women watching porn, still show that most women aren't watching porn. Also don't conflate female sexuality as a whole with pornography. You can express your sexuality without watching pornography.

williamglenn · January 2017

Cyclefree said:

SeanT said:

nunu said:
That finger pointing to the sky is not an isis sign ffs. Thats like saying someone is a BNP supporter because they fly the union jack.
But if the flag waver also believed in white supremacy, you'd have good reason to be suspicious. And this Muslim woman appears to support sharia law. That is to say: she supports a system which says women are intrinsically inferior to men, the way Nazis believed Jews were intrinsically inferior to Germans

Sharia law must be driven to the extremes and disallowed. It should not be part of our discourse. It is no better than outright racism, indeed fascism.
It has been declared to be incompatible with the ECHR - see the Court's report for 2003.

If the nutjobs get wind of that they might start to wonder why 'sharia May' is so keen to leave it.

John_M · January 2017

williamglenn said:

Carolus_Rex said:

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:
@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.
Because of the psychological blow combined with pragmatically facing up to the practicalities of it. Most people don't really think they'd vote for independence. If they did it in a way that was seen to be choosing Europe over the UK, against a background of Europe having weathered the storms of nationalism, it would give many in England and Wales reason to rethink their assumptions about whether leaving the EU really offered a brighter future.
Why? Why would Scotland voting for independence from the UK ( which is not the same thing as "choosing Europe over the UK") change any minds in England and Wales?

Can't see the logic of that at all. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.
Almost everyone on the Leave side is confidently predicting that Scotland won't leave, and even that Brexit makes it harder. It's surely not crazy to think that there will be an effect if these predictions turn out to be faulty.

Remember Theresa May came to power saying that protecting the 'much more precious' union with Scotland was a priority. If her hard Brexit plan instead drives them away, can she survive? Wouldn't the countries she's courting for trade deals not look at events and wonder if they're backing a loser?

It's inconsistent to be both a Leaver and a Unionist. There's an economic price to pay for Brexit as there would be for Sexit, but people do not so order their lives as to optimise their finances above all other considerations.

For sure, Scotland's economic price would be heavier, but it's not inconceivable. Scots have the right to self-determination.

The_Apocalypse · January 2017

Cyclefree said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Taller men is a physical preference, not a personality preference. I like taller guys, but if I meet a 5'8 guy who I like I'm not going to turn him down based on him not being over 6'0.

On your second point: that's one 'controversial' study. No evidence from your link that it's findings are accepted by the scientific community as a whole.

The porn example is flawed because most women don't watch porn. The vast majority of porn watchers are men, and a range of studies show this.
What women want is a lover who makes them feel desirable and desired, who makes them feel good - more than good, absolutely BLOODY WONDERFUL - and who has some imagination and a sense of humour.

It's not hard, chaps.

I'd agree with this

John_M · January 2017

Thought this was interesting. Anyone else have any collateral to support Sam's claim?

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/823905411543826434

welshowl · January 2017

williamglenn said:

Carolus_Rex said:

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:
@WG

Genuine question: Why? Why would winning a Scottish referendum be the best way of "walking back" Brexit? At the very least the maths moves towards Leave as you've just taken out about a net 600K Remainers all other things staying equal, and regretful though that separation may possibly be to some, I would suggest the prevailing mood in rUK would tend towards the "good riddance" more than the "please don't go", though of course it would be shades of grey.
Because of the psychological blow combined with pragmatically facing up to the practicalities of it. Most people don't really think they'd vote for independence. If they did it in a way that was seen to be choosing Europe over the UK, against a background of Europe having weathered the storms of nationalism, it would give many in England and Wales reason to rethink their assumptions about whether leaving the EU really offered a brighter future.
Why? Why would Scotland voting for independence from the UK ( which is not the same thing as "choosing Europe over the UK") change any minds in England and Wales?

Can't see the logic of that at all. I think you're indulging in wishful thinking.
Almost everyone on the Leave side is confidently predicting that Scotland won't leave, and even that Brexit makes it harder. It's surely not crazy to think that there will be an effect if these predictions turn out to be faulty.

Remember Theresa May came to power saying that protecting the 'much more precious' union with Scotland was a priority. If her hard Brexit plan instead drives them away, can she survive? Wouldn't the countries she's courting for trade deals not look at events and wonder if they're backing a loser?

I think you overestimate the "love" for Scotland. It's in pretty short supply south of Carlisle (fine for the SNP that of course). Even in Cardiff during Indyref, the general view amongst my (totally unscientific of course) circle was, shall we say not exactly an expression of Celtic brotherly love.

Now I agree Scotland seems to be drifting away at present (that could change too of course, nothing is forever) and I think something new will have to be done (federal UK or whatever) post Brexit, if there is the will to keep it all stitched together in a new form.

However, I just don't see how on earth any sensible debate could genuinely be had till Brexit is 100% done nor that Scotland saying "Ok we're off if you Brexit" is really going to be the brake you think it will be on England (and Wales).

Morris_Dancer · January 2017

Mr. M, no, it isn't. If you consider the UK to be a sovereign country then both positions make sense.

And Scots exercised their self-determination in 2014 when they voted to remain in the UK.

Sunil_Prasannan · January 2017

Cyclefree said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Taller men is a physical preference, not a personality preference. I like taller guys, but if I meet a 5'8 guy who I like I'm not going to turn him down based on him not being over 6'0.

On your second point: that's one 'controversial' study. No evidence from your link that it's findings are accepted by the scientific community as a whole.

The porn example is flawed because most women don't watch porn. The vast majority of porn watchers are men, and a range of studies show this.
What women want is a lover who makes them feel desirable and desired, who makes them feel good - more than good, absolutely BLOODY WONDERFUL - and who has some imagination and a sense of humour.

It's not hard, chaps.

[Looks down] Um, would partially hard do?

TOPPING · January 2017

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.
If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.
Well quite obviously I didn't see that.

What I find strange is that the SC judgement is pretty straightforward. Parliament must be consulted, for valid constitutional reasons, all with precedent, before A50 can be triggered.

Easy peasy.

Why will the denizens of Stoke be so unable to grasp such a straightforward point, which is presumably what your UKIP bet is predicated upon.
I cannot stand your patronising, condescending tone and find it irritating to converse with you.

I think this is a good thing for Ukip, if you think differently you can lay me a bet?
Wow issues much? Please feel free not to converse with me if it winds you up that much, we'll both manage.

And the only bet I ever had with you I lost. I am tempted, however, this time. I'm happy to bet you £10 that UKIP won't win Stoke.
Is it an issue to find someone extremely annoying? If so I have them!

Ok what price are you offering?

I am offering an old-fashioned amateur bet - if UKIP win I give you £10, if UKIP don't win you give me £10.

AnneJGP · January 2017

The_Apocalypse said:

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:
FPT:

Just reading yesterday's threads. That conversation on what women what (which seemingly was dominated by men) was a mess. No, not all women want a dominant, alpha male type man.

Also the idea that patriarchy as a concept stems from women having dad issues....well, certainly that's the first time I've heard that as argument.

(snipped)
Every topic on here is dominated by men, as PB has never had a gender-balanced set of contributors in the 11-odd years I've been hanging around this den of iniquity.

I do agree that some of the lines of argument were bizarre. I find it sad that 'never kissed a Tory' is a thing, but most relationships need common views and interests in order to thrive, so it's just one of those things.
On your first point: it's true to say there are more male voices than female ones on this site - but I can still recall at least one/some female voice in most of the conversations I've read on here. With that conversation I recall there being no female voice to offer a perspective either way. I guess that was what I was getting at.

On your second point, I agree 100%.

@CD13 And what do you believe most men think?

I was lurking during that conversation and had no interest in it, except as a spectator sport like going to the Zoo.

To me it seemed the sort of thing men talk about when they get together, and no need for me to be a wet blanket.

I am myself somewhat left-leaning, though less so than you, I expect.

The sort of debate that interests me about left/right differences and gender issues is that the left make the noise about equality and don't much vote for women unless they've no option and the right just allow a free-for-all through which women can & do fight their way to the top.

Regardless of politics, I prefer an approach that works.

Any woman of sense needs only to look at what happened to Harriet Harman to realise that her own chances as a Labour politician are doomed from the outset. Or the shambles the Mr Corbyn produced when deciding his first Shadow Cabinet - no woman's name apparently entered his mind, never mind his ShadCab, until someone pointed it out, far too late to disguise the fact.

If a woman wants to join a boys' club, where women are the groupies, she can't do better than join the Labour party (or, from what I read, any of the other left organisations).

I don't understand why the younger women can't see it, but there are always plenty of candidates for the lower rungs of the ladder.

(All thoroughly off-topic, for which I apologise, and Good afternoon, everyone.)

Alanbrooke · January 2017

Sigmar Gabriel says he wont be SPD candidate in German election and backs Martin Schulz

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/sigmar-gabriel-tritt-nicht-als-spd-kanzlerkandidat-an-14744704.html

Scott_P · January 2017

@PaulBrandITV: Understand there are around a dozen Tory MPs already reluctant to vote for a simple two line Brexit bill - they want full blown bill instead

isam · January 2017

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:
I smashed into the 2.6 w Betfair on UKIP in Stoke... the mood of the public over this decision will be very different to that on here. It's a gift for Ukip, I think it's 50/50

Nothing like the Oldham seat that Mike keeps mentioning
Hmm there's a lot of Daily Mail outrage over the decision. But in the cold light of day I see no reason why the good burghers of Stoke won't be as aware of what it actually signified as those of us on here.

Your belief that UKIP will do well commits the age old lefty mistake (and as you are an erstwhile lefty I can see where it's coming from) of believing that you are the only one who really gets what's going on, while the plebs will remain unaware.
If you saw my "not interested in politics" football teams whatsapp convo this morning you'd think very differently, but carry on theorising.
Well quite obviously I didn't see that.

What I find strange is that the SC judgement is pretty straightforward. Parliament must be consulted, for valid constitutional reasons, all with precedent, before A50 can be triggered.

Easy peasy.

Why will the denizens of Stoke be so unable to grasp such a straightforward point, which is presumably what your UKIP bet is predicated upon.
I cannot stand your patronising, condescending tone and find it irritating to converse with you.

I think this is a good thing for Ukip, if you think differently you can lay me a bet?
Wow issues much? Please feel free not to converse with me if it winds you up that much, we'll both manage.

And the only bet I ever had with you I lost. I am tempted, however, this time. I'm happy to bet you £10 that UKIP won't win Stoke.
Is it an issue to find someone extremely annoying? If so I have them!

Ok what price are you offering?

I am offering an old-fashioned amateur bet - if UKIP win I give you £10, if UKIP don't win you give me £10.

Oh ok I'll pass, the bookies and exchanges are offering £15 for £10

John_M · January 2017

Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. M, no, it isn't. If you consider the UK to be a sovereign country then both positions make sense.

And Scots exercised their self-determination in 2014 when they voted to remain in the UK.

I'm supportive of Nicola's argument that we're materially changing the T&Cs regarding membership of the United Kingdom.

I also think they're bonkers if they believe that EU membership is going to solve their issues, but I'm at least halfway to being a Cybernat.

MarqueeMark · January 2017

Cyclefree said:

The_Apocalypse said:

SeanT said:

Women prefer taller men

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/why-women-want-tall-men

Women prefer men richer than them, even when the women are rich enough themselves. Indeed they actually have more and better orgasms with richer men, as I can personally attest, as a rich man.

Oh, sorry. here's a link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1121122/Why-rich-men-better-bed--Women-orgasms-wealthy-partners-study-finds.html

Also, we know from pornsite data what sex women want, and it isn't gentle canoodling. They like what men want, and they like the hot filthy stuff, where the women get a right seeing-to.

"Even more interesting than who is having sex, but how. Inquisitor reports: "Women also show a strong preference for sado-maschistic adult video viewing, with the terms 'rough sex' and 'bondage' both appearing in the top 16 search terms for women, but not for men." I'm not shocked that these are popular search topics for women, but I wouldn't have guessed that it was that much more popular for women than for men."

More women like bondage and rough sex THAN MEN. And that isn't porn with the woman tying up the man, or giving him a pegging. That's sex with the woman getting spanked, hogtied and ball-gagged.

You have much to learn.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/83292-these-are-the-most-popular-porn-searches-for-women-and-we-watch-a-lot-more-lesbian
Taller men is a physical preference, not a personality preference. I like taller guys, but if I meet a 5'8 guy who I like I'm not going to turn him down based on him not being over 6'0.

On your second point: that's one 'controversial' study. No evidence from your link that it's findings are accepted by the scientific community as a whole.

The porn example is flawed because most women don't watch porn. The vast majority of porn watchers are men, and a range of studies show this.
What women want is a lover who makes them feel desirable and desired, who makes them feel good - more than good, absolutely BLOODY WONDERFUL - and who has some imagination and a sense of humour.

It's not hard, chaps.

A sense of humour has always stood me in good stead.

That, and a Sex Olympics guaranteed podium finish when it came to oral.....

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