politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Viewpoint: Tribal Tim Farron attacks Corbyn and lets TMay off
Comments
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He's doing what he said he would, this will blindside alot of people.chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-387210560 -
So begins the protectionism. Let's hope this doesn't end up like Smoot-Hawley and trigger another great Depression.chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-387210560 -
NATO, the UN, NAFTA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nafta next ?chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Wouldn't bet against the wall being built at this rate too...0 -
His live feed today talking to business will be hugely popular on US first, jobs and big tax cutsPulpstar said:
He's doing what he said he would, this will blindside alot of people.chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-387210560 -
Wasn't he hit by debris off a roof in a storm?PlatoSaid said:
After his terrible injury, its amazing he recovered so well. I don't recall what happened, but remember the story.Morris_Dancer said:RIP Gordon Kaye.
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And sending the EU the same wayPulpstar said:
NATO, the UN, NAFTA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nafta next ?chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Wouldn't bet against the wall being built at this rate too...0 -
Already half built.Pulpstar said:
NATO, the UN, NAFTA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nafta next ?chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Wouldn't bet against the wall being built at this rate too...0 -
A mate and I once shared a cab home from a party with our very attractive (and very drunk) tutor. When we got to her house she invited us in. We both refused. I don't know about my mate but in my case I was simply too naïve to understand what she was getting at. Just as well really for all sorts of reasons!RobD said:
I know I've missed a few like that in my time too. Oh dear!rkrkrk said:
A girl asked my mate to share a cab ride home. He said yeah... Being the frugal sort.SeanT said:
Nope, I'm afraid I was totally useless at noticing women coming on to me, at Uni.Casino_Royale said:
As the bona fide Tory Boy at university, I was the performing monkey at house parties. Even when introduced by friends to gorgeous left-liberal girls as such, I did often get on rather well with them but missed several opportunities from sheer naivety.PlatoSaid said:
I've just started rewatching Big Bang Theory from the start on Netflix.Casino_Royale said:
I wish I'd met such women.CD13 said:Ms Cyclefree,
"TBH Farron's comment about May makes me rather warm to him. At least he has the class to accept that political opponents can be decent people even if you disagree with their views."
Exactly. That's why I have doubts about Burnham. The "I've never kissed a Tory" t-shirt story made me doubt his sanity. If a gorgeous women came up to me when I was young and single and said "Let's have mad, passionate sex. But I voted Tory at the last election," guess what I would have done.
It's worrying that Burnham wasn't laughed out of the Labour Party.
I instantly thought of Raj and Penny
Not a mistake SeanT would have made.
I recall one incident in the Union bar, as it was closing for the evening, when a girl put a hand on my knee and said, "Can I come and stay at your place tonight?"
She was really hot.
I looked at her, perplexed, and said "Isn't there a night bus to your part of town"? At which point she rolled her eyes (as did all my mates) and left me to me Fosters, with a justified and contemptuous sneer.
It wasn't until my late 20s that I finally clued up. It wasn't until my 30s that I realised women like men to be ruthless, assertive, dominant (within reason). I fear there is some truth in Trump's remark, once you reach a certain level of success or confidence, you can just "grab them by the pussy" and they will yield.
I emphasise I don't do this. But I have no doubt it works.
First thing he said on getting in... Probably best if we drop you off first.0 -
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
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Good point :>RobD said:
Already half built.Pulpstar said:
NATO, the UN, NAFTA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nafta next ?chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Wouldn't bet against the wall being built at this rate too...0 -
Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't0
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But the very fear of that might be why Trump just might get away with his position....rottenborough said:
So begins the protectionism. Let's hope this doesn't end up like Smoot-Hawley and trigger another great Depression.chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
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I assume Bernie supporters will be cheering today... *innocent face*0
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It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.0 -
Interesting the BBC bills it as a new single market like the EU..chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Not quite.0 -
0
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Andrew Neil points out that TTIP will also be dead.0
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He's a would-be strongman 1930s style. However, he's not going to be able to overturn the constitution. I'm just going to wait to see what he does, and pay little attention to what he says.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
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Like May's action not words when reducing immigration to 10s of thousands when Home Secretary.perdix said:
Hmmmm... With UKIP all you get is talk. With May you get action.isam said:
Nuttall in parliament would also make May seem less UKIPpy?david_herdson said:
Perhaps, but it would also (1) point UKIP firmly in the direction of Labour, in both resources and policy, and (2) give UKIP credibility with the public as a genuine alternative to Labour - 'winning here' and all that, and (3) increase the pressure on the three-way pincer on Labour, between Con, LD and UKIP.rottenborough said:Why are the Tories hoping UKIP will win Stoke? Surely this will hasten the demise of their deep sleeper, one J. Corbyn?
It's never sensible to be too cute in strategy but I can understand the reasoning behind prioritising Copeland.0 -
Afternoon, all.
Tim Farron makes Ed Miliband look and sound Churchillian
BTW, Sad to see death of Allo Allo's Rene (Gordon Kaye) - RIP.0 -
I don't think it needs to be that way forever more with regards to tuition fee, though unfortunately it probably will be. The next stage in that particular frog being boiled is the complete privatisation of the loan system.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
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You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.0 -
If I was still young free and single..SeanT said:
Another way of saying Patriarchy is "Daddy Issues", and speaking from recent personal experience, it is surprising how many Corbynite feminist young women want to be spanked by the Evil Forces of Capitalism, especially if the Exploitative Tory is wearing a waistcoat.Pulpstar said:
I have a suspicion that those that protest the most are also probably the most susceptible to err "charms".SeanT said:
Nope, I'm afraid I was totally useless at noticing women coming on to me, at Uni.Casino_Royale said:
As the bona fide Tory Boy at university, I was the performing monkey at house parties. Even when introduced by friends to gorgeous left-liberal girls as such, I did often get on rather well with them but missed several opportunities from sheer naivety.PlatoSaid said:
I've just started rewatching Big Bang Theory from the start on Netflix.Casino_Royale said:
I wish I'd met such women.CD13 said:Ms Cyclefree,
"TBH Farron's comment about May makes me rather warm to him. At least he has the class to accept that political opponents can be decent people even if you disagree with their views."
Exactly. That's why I have doubts about Burnham. The "I've never kissed a Tory" t-shirt story made me doubt his sanity. If a gorgeous women came up to me when I was young and single and said "Let's have mad, passionate sex. But I voted Tory at the last election," guess what I would have done.
It's worrying that Burnham wasn't laughed out of the Labour Party.
I instantly thought of Raj and Penny
Not a mistake SeanT would have made.
I recall one incident in the Union bar, as it was closing for the evening, when a girl put a hand on my knee and said, "Can I come and stay at your place tonight?"
She was really hot.
I looked at her, perplexed, and said "Isn't there a night bus to your part of town"? At which point she rolled her eyes (as did all my mates) and left me to me Fosters, with a justified and contemptuous sneer.
It wasn't until my late 20s that I finally clued up. It wasn't until my 30s that I realised women like men to be ruthless, assertive, dominant (within reason). I fear there is some truth in Trump's remark, once you reach a certain level of success or confidence, you can just "grab them by the pussy" and they will yield.
I emphasise I don't do this. But I have no doubt it works.
Projection and all that good psychological stuff.0 -
I'm reminded of Jerry Pournelle's old science fiction stories about the Co-Dominium, where Russia and the USA team up and dominate the Earth.0
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He seems to be off to one heck of a start especially if Russian and US planes are jointly attacking SyriaJohn_M said:
He's a would-be strongman 1930s style. However, he's not going to be able to overturn the constitution. I'm just going to wait to see what he does, and pay little attention to what he says.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
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Libidinous.SeanT said:
Yeah, I still wake up in cold sweats thinking of the opportunities I flunked.Stark_Dawning said:
I have some similar stories from when I was a naive and witless youth. What's most depressing is not that I was naive and witless, but that I'm now too old for it to ever happen again.SeanT said:
Nope, I'm afraid I was totally useless at noticing women coming on to me, at Uni.Casino_Royale said:
As the bona fide Tory Boy at university, I was the performing monkey at house parties. Even when introduced by friends to gorgeous left-liberal girls as such, I did often get on rather well with them but missed several opportunities from sheer naivety.PlatoSaid said:
I've just started rewatching Big Bang Theory from the start on Netflix.Casino_Royale said:
I wish I'd met such women.CD13 said:Ms Cyclefree,
"TBH Farron's comment about May makes me rather warm to him. At least he has the class to accept that political opponents can be decent people even if you disagree with their views."
Exactly. That's why I have doubts about Burnham. The "I've never kissed a Tory" t-shirt story made me doubt his sanity. If a gorgeous women came up to me when I was young and single and said "Let's have mad, passionate sex. But I voted Tory at the last election," guess what I would have done.
It's worrying that Burnham wasn't laughed out of the Labour Party.
I instantly thought of Raj and Penny
Not a mistake SeanT would have made.
I recall one incident in the Union bar, as it was closing for the evening, when a girl put a hand on my knee and said, "Can I come and stay at your place tonight?"
She was really hot.
I looked at her, perplexed, and said "Isn't there a night bus to your part of town"? At which point she rolled her eyes (as did all my mates) and left me to me Fosters, with a justified and contemptuous sneer.
I think it's one reason I'm so libidinous now. Genuinely.
I also think the idea male sexual desire declines after 40 is rubbish. Male sexual desire for the same woman declines. Give a man a hot new partner, see what happens then. I believe US President Calvin Coolidge made this same point some time ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect
You authors with your posh words.
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It's no wonder that people misunderstand the nature of the EU when it gets lumped in with things like that.Casino_Royale said:
Interesting the BBC bills it as a new single market like the EU..chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Not quite.0 -
FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
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Sinn Fein's new leader looks OK 0
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You will have the womens march after youSunil_Prasannan said:Sinn Fein's new leader looks OK
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Mr. Glenn, generally, politically reporting is very poor. A fixation on personalities and a shallow examination of policies.0
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Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to students graduating tens of thousands in debt and paying real interest rates on it. All the major parties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?0 -
Labour maybe. Green maybe. Sit on their hands, possibly.FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Labour has been bleeding support for twenty years because large swathes of the country do not trust them (money/migration/too 'Tory').
There is no reason to believe that the Lib Dems would be immune from this type of mistrust, and UKIP has partly been about the loss of trust in the Tories too on Europe/migration.0 -
With all that is going on how do those on this forum find the time to keep posting - it is ok for me as I'm retired0
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The wall is just a waste of money... But I don't see that its damaging in any way.Pulpstar said:
NATO, the UN, NAFTA.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nafta next ?chestnut said:Trump pulls the plug on TPP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38721056
Wouldn't bet against the wall being built at this rate too...
So I'd much rather he got on with that rather than undermined NATO.0 -
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
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Only 26% of voters want a vote on the Brexit deal, 63% think no deal is better than a bad deal and 59% think May was right to threaten to change the UK's economic model if offered a bad deal according to ICM in 'blink and you miss it' Guardian story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/23/trident-missile-failure-may-commons-statement--to-blame-for-cover-up-of-trident-missile-test-failure-says-top-tory-politics-live
17:15
26% of voters want second referendum on Brexit once final deal is known, poll suggests
As I mentioned earlier (see 10.40am), today’s Guardian/ICM polling included some questions on Brexit. Here are the top lines.
Around a quarter of voters want a second referendum to give people the final say on whether the UK leaves the EU once the outcome of Brexit talks are known, the poll suggests.
Around a third of voters think Brexit should be postponed or suspended if the government cannot reach a deal in two years, the poll suggests.
A clear majority of voters (63%) support Theresa May’s claim that leaving the EU without a trade deal would be better than leaving with bad trade deal, the poll suggests.
And a clear majority of voters (59%) thinks May was right to threaten economic retaliation, including slashing business taxes, if the EU offers the UK a bad Brexit deal.
And here are the detailed figures.
First people were told that Brexit negotiations are starting soon and were then asked which of these three options they would prefer.
UK leaving, regardless of what happens: 53%
Parliament to decide whether the UK leaves, based on the outcome of negotiations: 12%
A second referendum to let people decide, based on the outcome of the negotiations: 26%
Don’t know: 9%
Then people were asked what should happen if the UK and the EU failed to reach an agreement in the time allowed for the Brexit talks (two years). They were given two choices.
End talks and leave without a deal: 49%
Postpone or suspend the UK’s exit from the EU: 33%
Don’t know: 18%
Then people were asked which of these two options they thought was best.
Leaving the EU without a trade deal: 63%
Leaving the EU with a bad trade deal: 8%
Don’t know: 29%
Finally, people were told that, if May is offered a bad Brexit deal by the EU, she has threatened to retaliate by cutting business taxes to encourage businesses to move to the UK, or changing “the basis of Britain’s economic model” as she puts it. They were asked if May was right or wrong to do this.
Right: 59%
Wrong: 18%
Don’t know: 23%
ICM Unlimited interviewed an online sample of 2052 adults aged 18+ on 20-22 January 2017. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.0 -
A minority voted to stay in the EU.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
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And McCain and Graham I think too.Pulpstar said:
Wonder what the point was of Rubio asking those aggressive questions if he was just going to roll over later? Just confirms the sense of him as spineless... He'd have been better off just being pro-Tillerson from the start?0 -
You do need to be free and single though. (Or suffer a whole heap of other issues I guess)SeanT said:
You don't have to be young. I'm fifty bloody three. Helps if you're rich.Casino_Royale said:
If I was still young free and single..SeanT said:
Another way of saying Patriarchy is "Daddy Issues", and speaking from recent personal experience, it is surprising how many Corbynite feminist young women want to be spanked by the Evil Forces of Capitalism, especially if the Exploitative Tory is wearing a waistcoat.Pulpstar said:
I have a suspicion that those that protest the most are also probably the most susceptible to err "charms".SeanT said:
Nope, I'm afraid I was totally useless at noticing women coming on to me, at Uni.Casino_Royale said:
As the bona fide Tory Boy at university, I was the performing monkey at house parties. Even when introduced by friends to gorgeous left-liberal girls as such, I did often get on rather well with them but missed several opportunities from sheer naivety.PlatoSaid said:
I've just started rewatching Big Bang Theory from the start on Netflix.Casino_Royale said:
I wish I'd met such women.
I instantly thought of Raj and Penny
Not a mistake SeanT would have made.
I recall one incident in the Union bar, as it was closing for the evening, when a girl put a hand on my knee and said, "Can I come and stay at your place tonight?"
She was really hot.
I looked at her, perplexed, and said "Isn't there a night bus to your part of town"? At which point she rolled her eyes (as did all my mates) and left me to me Fosters, with a justified and contemptuous sneer.
It wasn't until my late 20s that I finally clued up. It wasn't until my 30s that I realised women like men to be ruthless, assertive, dominant (within reason). I fear there is some truth in Trump's remark, once you reach a certain level of success or confidence, you can just "grab them by the pussy" and they will yield.
I emphasise I don't do this. But I have no doubt it works.
Projection and all that good psychological stuff.0 -
Voters like strong leaders.welford said:Only 26% of voters want a vote on the Brexit deal, 63% think no deal is better than a bad deal and 59% think May was right to threaten to change the UK's economic model if offered a bad deal according to ICM in 'blink and you miss it' Guardian story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/23/trident-missile-failure-may-commons-statement--to-blame-for-cover-up-of-trident-missile-test-failure-says-top-tory-politics-live
17:15
26% of voters want second referendum on Brexit once final deal is known, poll suggests
As I mentioned earlier (see 10.40am), today’s Guardian/ICM polling included some questions on Brexit. Here are the top lines.
Around a quarter of voters want a second referendum to give people the final say on whether the UK leaves the EU once the outcome of Brexit talks are known, the poll suggests.
Around a third of voters think Brexit should be postponed or suspended if the government cannot reach a deal in two years, the poll suggests.
A clear majority of voters (63%) support Theresa May’s claim that leaving the EU without a trade deal would be better than leaving with bad trade deal, the poll suggests.
And a clear majority of voters (59%) thinks May was right to threaten economic retaliation, including slashing business taxes, if the EU offers the UK a bad Brexit deal.
And here are the detailed figures.
First people were told that Brexit negotiations are starting soon and were then asked which of these three options they would prefer.
UK leaving, regardless of what happens: 53%
Parliament to decide whether the UK leaves, based on the outcome of negotiations: 12%
A second referendum to let people decide, based on the outcome of the negotiations: 26%
Don’t know: 9%
Then people were asked what should happen if the UK and the EU failed to reach an agreement in the time allowed for the Brexit talks (two years). They were given two choices.
End talks and leave without a deal: 49%
Postpone or suspend the UK’s exit from the EU: 33%
Don’t know: 18%
Then people were asked which of these two options they thought was best.
Leaving the EU without a trade deal: 63%
Leaving the EU with a bad trade deal: 8%
Don’t know: 29%
Finally, people were told that, if May is offered a bad Brexit deal by the EU, she has threatened to retaliate by cutting business taxes to encourage businesses to move to the UK, or changing “the basis of Britain’s economic model” as she puts it. They were asked if May was right or wrong to do this.
Right: 59%
Wrong: 18%
Don’t know: 23%
ICM Unlimited interviewed an online sample of 2052 adults aged 18+ on 20-22 January 2017. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
May is setting out to be a strong leader. Time will tell.0 -
Hmm I felt it was always going to happen to some degree, Rubio is a typical politician - likes to sound tough on stuff but push comes to shove he'll support the GOP presidential nominee.rkrkrk said:
And McCain and Graham I think too.Pulpstar said:
Wonder what the point was of Rubio asking those aggressive questions if he was just going to roll over later? Just confirms the sense of him as spineless... He'd have been better off just being pro-Tillerson from the start?
I liked the thread but decided to take the other side of the bet to you.
Awaiting settlement of the market at the moment, hopefully today or tommorow as I decided to scoop the £8 at 700 on Bolton...0 -
The ICM poll is the latest in a string of them pointing firmly towards the public just wanting the government to get on with it. The appetite for any form of re-run is dwindling.0
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@welford
Welcome. Another East Midlander? interesting link.
Only 53% wanted to leave regardless of the outcome of the talks, the remainder have at least some resrrvations. Opinion is not shifting a great deal.
Incidentally, I am in the "Leave regardless" camp. Remain was the better choice, but the effect on our country of backtracking woild be worse than the disruptions of Brexit.0 -
Airlines are relentlessly commercial organisations. BOAC and BEA were pushing back 50 years ago in government demands to buy British. The ones that aren't are Sabena or Alitalia. Even Aeroflot buys Russian only under duress.rcs1000 said:
It's amazing how little 'home' advantage Boeing and Airbus have. The big US carriers run thousands of A320s, and the Europeans have equally many 777s and 737s.CarlottaVance said:Putin does protectionism;
https://www.rt.com/business/374797-putin-russia-made-aircraft/
Though the idea that Boeing doesn't sell in Europe, or Airbus in the USA is touching.....0 -
not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to students graduating tens of thousands in debt and paying real interest rates on it. All the major parties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.
0 -
I'd settle for them not funding them.SeanT said:
Fascinating. As with TPP, I reckon Trump will follow through on his proposal to eradicate Islamism (actually succeeding in that is an entirely different matter)dr_spyn said:Switch of emphasis in Syria.
https://twitter.com/PA/status/823581828640452608/photo/1
If I was a member of ISIS I wouldn't be revelling in the divisions I had sown in the evil Crusaders, I'd be shitting myself. The USA has the mightiest military ever known, and if they really applied it to wiping out all terrorists in the Mid East they could do it.
Putin did it in Chechnya.
Personally, I say, go for it, Donald. Kill them all. Allah will know his own.
0 -
Donald Trump is an actual fascist, Sean.SeanT said:
It's sneering wankpiffle like this that got Trump elected.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
0 -
A huge majority voted to join the EU in 1975...why? Because many of them had experienced the war and thought the EU made the world safer.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A minority voted to stay in the EU.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
Pong is right.
Voting for Trump was a very poor decision. Equally Brexit. What can you do? All votes are the same.
0 -
This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude0
-
I'm another Londoner! I'd also classify myself as a 'Humpty Dumpty Remainer'. I voted remain - I though Cameron's line about us being in the sweet spot of being in the single market, but not the single currency was right - but now as a country we've voted we can't go back to where we were, we might as well get on with it, and try and get the best FTAs with the EU and elsewhere that we can....foxinsoxuk said:@welford
Welcome. Another East Midlander? interesting link.
Only 53% wanted to leave regardless of the outcome of the talks, the remainder have at least some resrrvations. Opinion is not shifting a great deal.
Incidentally, I am in the "Leave regardless" camp. Remain was the better choice, but the effect on our country of backtracking woild be worse than the disruptions of Brexit.0 -
Are the 33% who go now but wouldn't have gone back when actually any better off though ?David_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to students graduating tens of thousands in debt and paying real interest rates on it. All the major parties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.0 -
All votes were 'the same' for Brexit, its demonstrably not true for Trump...tyson said:
A huge majority voted to join the EU in 1975...why? Because many of them had experienced the war and thought the EU made the world safer.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A minority voted to stay in the EU.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
Pong is right.
Voting for Trump was a very poor decision. Equally Brexit. What can you do? All votes are the same.0 -
Guardian headline
26% of voters want second referendum on final Brexit deal, poll suggests - Politics live
(Psst...74% don't)0 -
Welcome to this forum. I am from North Wales but like you voted remain but am now a committed leaver agreeing with Theresa May's decision to leave altogether and take back controlwelford said:
I'm another Londoner! I'd also classify myself as a 'Humpty Dumpty Remainer'. I voted remain - I though Cameron's line about us being in the sweet spot of being in the single market, but not the single currency was right - but now as a country we've voted we can't go back to where we were, we might as well get on with it, and try and get the best FTAs with the EU and elsewhere that we can....foxinsoxuk said:@welford
Welcome. Another East Midlander? interesting link.
Only 53% wanted to leave regardless of the outcome of the talks, the remainder have at least some resrrvations. Opinion is not shifting a great deal.
Incidentally, I am in the "Leave regardless" camp. Remain was the better choice, but the effect on our country of backtracking woild be worse than the disruptions of Brexit.0 -
It's funny all the same...Theresa was made to look like a complete jackass, out of her depth, and without any media skills.....Big_G_NorthWales said:This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude
She shows all the political dexterity of a lumbering piece of clay
Looking forward to this week's photo shoot with Donald and Melania
0 -
I'm not sure what the opposite of libidinous would be. One of the minor risks of HT for MtF transgender folk is a complete shutdown of the libido (it's very variable, some people are completely unaffected). It essentially returns you to a prepubescent state, which is an extremely odd sensation.0
-
We should have gone the other way and had an unskilled adult tax.David_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to students graduating tens of thousands in debt and paying real interest rates on it. All the major parties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.0 -
Grasping at strawschestnut said:Guardian headline
26% of voters want second referendum on final Brexit deal, poll suggests - Politics live
(Psst...74% don't)0 -
Nope but it hides what might otherwise be a youth unemployment problem....Pulpstar said:
Are the 33% who go now but wouldn't have gone back when actually any better off though ?David_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to students graduating tens of thousands in debt and paying real interest rates on it. All the major parties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.0 -
How old are you? I was 15 at the time and I do not recall any "world a safer place" debate. It is very telling that the question was "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" "Common Market" was never an official name of the EEC - the gloss was necessary because that is what people called it and thought it to be.tyson said:
A huge majority voted to join the EU in 1975...why? Because many of them had experienced the war and thought the EU made the world safer.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A minority voted to stay in the EU.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
Pong is right.
Voting for Trump was a very poor decision. Equally Brexit. What can you do? All votes are the same.0 -
Oh, and this is good from the Spectator, on the joys of the Single Market and its benefits (or absence thereof ) for Wales. As the article says, Wales is poorer than some parts of Romania. Vote Labour
.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/single-market-great-wales-poor/0 -
This is their headline:SeanT said:
It does feel like they've buried their own poll, doesn't it? There's not one article solely dedicated to it. The references are scattered.welford said:Only 26% of voters want a vote on the Brexit deal, 63% think no deal is better than a bad deal and 59% think May was right to threaten to change the UK's economic model if offered a bad deal according to ICM in 'blink and you miss it' Guardian story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/23/trident-missile-failure-may-commons-statement--to-blame-for-cover-up-of-trident-missile-test-failure-says-top-tory-politics-live
And a clear majority of voters (59%) thinks May was right to threaten economic retaliation, including slashing business taxes, if the EU offers the UK a bad Brexit deal.
And here are the detailed figures.
First people were told that Brexit negotiations are starting soon and were then asked which of these three options they would prefer.
UK leaving, regardless of what happens: 53%
Parliament to decide whether the UK leaves, based on the outcome of negotiations: 12%
A second referendum to let people decide, based on the outcome of the negotiations: 26%
Don’t know: 9%
Then people were asked what should happen if the UK and the EU failed to reach an agreement in the time allowed for the Brexit talks (two years). They were given two choices.
End talks and leave without a deal: 49%
Postpone or suspend the UK’s exit from the EU: 33%
Don’t know: 18%
Then people were asked which of these two options they thought was best.
Leaving the EU without a trade deal: 63%
Leaving the EU with a bad trade deal: 8%
Don’t know: 29%
Finally, people were told that, if May is offered a bad Brexit deal by the EU, she has threatened to retaliate by cutting business taxes to encourage businesses to move to the UK, or changing “the basis of Britain’s economic model” as she puts it. They were asked if May was right or wrong to do this.
Right: 59%
Wrong: 18%
Don’t know: 23%
ICM Unlimited interviewed an online sample of 2052 adults aged 18+ on 20-22 January 2017. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
If they have buried it (we shall see) I suggest it's because of these subsidiary Brexit findings, which will make most unhappy reading for Guardianistas.
The Corbyn-is-a-disaster stuff would, on the contrary, be positively welcomed by a lot of Guardian editors and journos. And readers.
26% of voters want second referendum on final Brexit deal, poll suggests - Politics live
Not that a huge majority don't......0 -
She was wrong footed but more confident on the news tonight. Sky reckon Fallon did enough in the HOC. He is very cool and assured.tyson said:
It's funny all the same...Theresa was made to look like a complete jackass, out of her depth, and without any media skills.....Big_G_NorthWales said:This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude
She shows all the political dexterity of a lumbering piece of clay
Looking forward to this week's photo shoot with Donald and Melania
Anyway tomorrow will be dominated by the Supreme Court0 -
Anecdotally, I know quite a few people who feel the same. I'm sure there are people who voted 'Leave' as a protest and regret it, but it's a mistake to think they might not be (at least) balanced out by people switching the other way....Big_G_NorthWales said:welford said:foxinsoxuk said:
@welford
Welcome to this forum. I am from North Wales but like you voted remain but am now a committed leaver agreeing with Theresa May's decision to leave altogether and take back control0 -
Labour introduced tuition feesFF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.0 -
Do you not think the experience of a absolutely horrendous European war barely thirty years had any influence?Ishmael_Z said:
How old are you? I was 15 at the time and I do not recall any "world a safer place" debate. It is very telling that the question was "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" "Common Market" was never an official name of the EEC - the gloss was necessary because that is what people called it and thought it to be.tyson said:
A huge majority voted to join the EU in 1975...why? Because many of them had experienced the war and thought the EU made the world safer.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A minority voted to stay in the EU.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
Pong is right.
Voting for Trump was a very poor decision. Equally Brexit. What can you do? All votes are the same.
0 -
There was some 'world is a safer place', as I recall. As one who campaigned for IN.Ishmael_Z said:
How old are you? I was 15 at the time and I do not recall any "world a safer place" debate. It is very telling that the question was "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" "Common Market" was never an official name of the EEC - the gloss was necessary because that is what people called it and thought it to be.tyson said:
A huge majority voted to join the EU in 1975...why? Because many of them had experienced the war and thought the EU made the world safer.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A minority voted to stay in the EU.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
Pong is right.
Voting for Trump was a very poor decision. Equally Brexit. What can you do? All votes are the same.
0 -
If he talking about Britain's relationship with the EU?SandyRentool said:Quote of the day:
"If you live in a country where you get so annoyed with how we deal each other, you have a choice. Get out! You don't have to be here!"
Mark Rutte, Dutch PM
Trying to out-Freedom the Freedom Party.0 -
It would be nice to possess such kind of certainty in political leaders. May's interview, and public speaking skills are the poorest of any PM I can think of in my lifetime. She just looks uncomfortable and her voice croaks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She was wrong footed but more confident on the news tonight. Sky reckon Fallon did enough in the HOC. He is very cool and assured.tyson said:
It's funny all the same...Theresa was made to look like a complete jackass, out of her depth, and without any media skills.....Big_G_NorthWales said:This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude
She shows all the political dexterity of a lumbering piece of clay
Looking forward to this week's photo shoot with Donald and Melania
Anyway tomorrow will be dominated by the Supreme Court
0 -
welford said:
Anecdotally, I know quite a few people who feel the same. I'm sure there are people who voted 'Leave' as a protest and regret it, but it's a mistake to think they might not be (at least) balanced out by people switching the other way....
Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think the Country are tired of the constant arguments and just want to get on with it. As the polls show Theresa May is trusted on thiswelford said:foxinsoxuk said:@welford
Welcome to this forum. I am from North Wales but like you voted remain but am now a committed leaver agreeing with Theresa May's decision to leave altogether and take back control
This week will see her appear on the World stage and I have no doubt she will come out of it with an enhanced reputation. Difficult, if not impossible, for labour and expect to see them go even lower in the polls0 -
Good point. I had forgotten that. So not a differentiator for any party.Alanbrooke said:
Labour introduced tuition feesFF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.0 -
74%, minus a fair few ‘don’t knows’ I’d imagine. – Not sure what the Guardian is playing at here, 26% is hardly something to shout about, even their readership, bless'em must cotton on to the fact that’s well down on the 48% from last June.chestnut said:Guardian headline
26% of voters want second referendum on final Brexit deal, poll suggests - Politics live
(Psst...74% don't)0 -
Incidentally, want to know what the most desired man in London looks like? Harxly an alpha male, but knows his pussy...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/22/a-dating-app-says-im-londons-hottest-single-man-i-think-my-cats-to-blame?CMP=fb_gu0 -
BollocksDavid_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to students graduating tens of thousands in debt and paying real interest rates on it. All the major parties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and no party going to cut them again. The students are more exercised over Brexit, and increasingly pro LD. I see it with Fox jr and his friends. The young have short memories and much less fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.
we could pay tuition fees by scrapping the DFID budget
in the old days we got our money back by taxing graduates later in life at the higher rate when they succeeded
today we just tax the young up front and then dump the residue on the taxpayer
its a failed policy and the Tories should be ashamed they wont change it0 -
BollocksDavid_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to studeties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and n fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.
we could pay tuition fees by scrapping the DFID budget
in the old days we got our money back by taxing graduates later in life at the higher rate when they succeeded
today we just tax the young up front and then dump the residue on the taxpayer
its a failed policy and the Tories should be ashamed they wont change it0 -
26% want a second referendum or 74% don't.nunu said:
This is their headline:SeanT said:
It does feel like they've buried their own poll, doesn't it? There's not one article solely dedicated to it. The references are scattered.welford said:Only 26% of voters want a vote on the Brexit deal, 63% think no deal is better than a bad deal and 59% think May was right to threaten to change the UK's economic model if offered a bad deal according to ICM in 'blink and you miss it' Guardian story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/23/trident-missile-failure-may-commons-statement--to-blame-for-cover-up-of-trident-missile-test-failure-says-top-tory-politics-live
And a clear majority of voters (59%) thinks May was right to threaten economic retaliation, including slashing business taxes, if the EU offers the UK a bad Brexit deal.
And here are the detailed figures.
First people were told that Brexit negotiations are starting soon and were then asked which of these three options they would prefer.
UK leaving, regardless of what happens: 53%
Parliament to decide whether the UK leaves, based on the outcome of negotiations: 12%
A second referendum to let people decide, based on the outcome of the negotiations: 26%
Don’t know: 9%
Then people were asked what should happen if the UK and the EU failed to reach an agreement in the time allowed for the Brexit talks (two years). They were given two choices.
End talks and leave without a deal: 49%
Postpone or suspend the UK’s exit from the EU: 33%
Don’t know: 18%
Then people were asked which of these two options they thought was best.
Leaving the EU without a trade deal: 63%
Leaving the EU with a bad trade deal: 8%
Don’t know: 29%
Finally, people were told that, if May is offered a bad Brexit deal by the EU, she has threatened to retaliate by cutting business taxes to encourage businesses to move to the UK, or changing “the basis of Britain’s economic model” as she puts it. They were asked if May was right or wrong to do this.
Right: 59%
Wrong: 18%
Don’t know: 23%
ICM Unlimited interviewed an online sample of 2052 adults aged 18+ on 20-22 January 2017. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
If they have buried it (we shall see) I suggest it's because of these subsidiary Brexit findings, which will make most unhappy reading for Guardianistas.
The Corbyn-is-a-disaster stuff would, on the contrary, be positively welcomed by a lot of Guardian editors and journos. And readers.
26% of voters want second referendum on final Brexit deal, poll suggests - Politics live
Not that a huge majority don't......
Genuine alternative truths.0 -
I accept your observation but she is the best we have got and I expect her to get a quick deal on EU citizens both here and in Europe and so hopefully help youtyson said:
It would be nice to possess such kind of certainty in political leaders. May's interview, and public speaking skills are the poorest of any PM I can think of in my lifetime. She just looks uncomfortable and her voice croaks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She was wrong footed but more confident on the news tonight. Sky reckon Fallon did enough in the HOC. He is very cool and assured.tyson said:
It's funny all the same...Theresa was made to look like a complete jackass, out of her depth, and without any media skills.....Big_G_NorthWales said:This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude
She shows all the political dexterity of a lumbering piece of clay
Looking forward to this week's photo shoot with Donald and Melania
Anyway tomorrow will be dominated by the Supreme Court0 -
Why so negative? It is a clear majority of those who voted Remain!nunu said:
This is their headline:SeanT said:
It does feel like they've buried their own poll, doesn't it? There's not one article solely dedicated to it. The references are scattered.welford said:Only 26% of voters want a vote on the Brexit deal, 63% think no deal is better than a bad deal and 59% think May was right to threaten to change the UK's economic model if offered a bad deal according to ICM in 'blink and you miss it' Guardian story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/23/trident-missile-failure-may-commons-statement--to-blame-for-cover-up-of-trident-missile-test-failure-says-top-tory-politics-live
And a clear majority of voters (59%) thinks May was right to threaten economic retaliation, including slashing business taxes, if the EU offers the UK a bad Brexit deal.
And here are the detailed figures.
First people were told that Brexit negotiations are starting soon and were then asked which of these three options they would prefer.
UK leaving, regardless of what happens: 53%
Parliament to decide whether the UK leaves, based on the outcome of negotiations: 12%
A second referendum to let people decide, based on the outcome of the negotiations: 26%
Don’t know: 9%
Then people were asked what should happen if the UK and the EU failed to reach an agreement in the time allowed for the Brexit talks (two years). They were given two choices.
End talks and leave without a deal: 49%
Postpone or suspend the UK’s exit from the EU: 33%
Don’t know: 18%
Then people were asked which of these two options they thought was best.
Leaving the EU without a trade deal: 63%
Leaving the EU with a bad trade deal: 8%
Don’t know: 29%
Finally, people were told that, if May is offered a bad Brexit deal by the EU, she has threatened to retaliate by cutting business taxes to encourage businesses to move to the UK, or changing “the basis of Britain’s economic model” as she puts it. They were asked if May was right or wrong to do this.
Right: 59%
Wrong: 18%
Don’t know: 23%
ICM Unlimited interviewed an online sample of 2052 adults aged 18+ on 20-22 January 2017. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.
If they have buried it (we shall see) I suggest it's because of these subsidiary Brexit findings, which will make most unhappy reading for Guardianistas.
The Corbyn-is-a-disaster stuff would, on the contrary, be positively welcomed by a lot of Guardian editors and journos. And readers.
26% of voters want second referendum on final Brexit deal, poll suggests - Politics live
Not that a huge majority don't......0 -
You probably know too I think she is probably the best we've got at the minute.......sorry state of affairs we are in and all that......Big_G_NorthWales said:
I accept your observation but she is the best we have got and I expect her to get a quick deal on EU citizens both here and in Europe and so hopefully help youtyson said:
It would be nice to possess such kind of certainty in political leaders. May's interview, and public speaking skills are the poorest of any PM I can think of in my lifetime. She just looks uncomfortable and her voice croaks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She was wrong footed but more confident on the news tonight. Sky reckon Fallon did enough in the HOC. He is very cool and assured.tyson said:
It's funny all the same...Theresa was made to look like a complete jackass, out of her depth, and without any media skills.....Big_G_NorthWales said:This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude
She shows all the political dexterity of a lumbering piece of clay
Looking forward to this week's photo shoot with Donald and Melania
Anyway tomorrow will be dominated by the Supreme Court
0 -
If people vote for a course of action you have to do it. What I find fascinating in an abstract way, is how to implement a policy that will without any real doubt (in my mind at least) be highly disruptive and leave us in a worse position than before. Particularly when those implementing the policy are operating off some substantial false assumptionsfoxinsoxuk said:@welford
Welcome. Another East Midlander? interesting link.
Only 53% wanted to leave regardless of the outcome of the talks, the remainder have at least some resrrvations. Opinion is not shifting a great deal.
Incidentally, I am in the "Leave regardless" camp. Remain was the better choice, but the effect on our country of backtracking woild be worse than the disruptions of Brexit.0 -
Alanbrooke said:
BollocksDavid_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to studeties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and n fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.
we could pay tuition fees by scrapping the DFID budget
in the old days we got our money back by taxing graduates later in life at the higher rate when they succeeded
today we just tax the young up front and then dump the residue on the taxpayer
its a failed policy and the Tories should be ashamed they wont change it
Double bollocks?0 -
Well at least we are not in Aleppo - things will sort themselves out in due coursetyson said:
You probably know too I think she is probably the best we've got at the minute.......sorry state of affairs we are in and all that......Big_G_NorthWales said:
I accept your observation but she is the best we have got and I expect her to get a quick deal on EU citizens both here and in Europe and so hopefully help youtyson said:
It would be nice to possess such kind of certainty in political leaders. May's interview, and public speaking skills are the poorest of any PM I can think of in my lifetime. She just looks uncomfortable and her voice croaks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
She was wrong footed but more confident on the news tonight. Sky reckon Fallon did enough in the HOC. He is very cool and assured.tyson said:
It's funny all the same...Theresa was made to look like a complete jackass, out of her depth, and without any media skills.....Big_G_NorthWales said:This Trident nonsense is not going to help labour in Copeland as it lays bare their aggressive anti Trident attitude
She shows all the political dexterity of a lumbering piece of clay
Looking forward to this week's photo shoot with Donald and Melania
Anyway tomorrow will be dominated by the Supreme Court0 -
Why can't we make companies based in the U.K. pay minimum wage to overseas workers?
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/8235858627599441930 -
so given youve had such tremendous value I assume youd be willing to pay £27k retrospectively for your education freebieDavid_Evershed said:Alanbrooke said:
BollocksDavid_Evershed said:not_on_fire said:
Tuition fees are the ultimate political slippery slope. In barely a decade we went from university being essentially free to studeties should be ashamed.MarkHopkins said:FF43 said:
You mean they would vote for Labour instead? Tuition fees were a Tory policy accepted by the Lib Dems when they entered coalition.chestnut said:
It's a matter of trust.foxinsoxuk said:
Tuition fees are history now, and n fear of "the other".chestnut said:
Youngsters who think Corbyn is a buffoon and remember that the Lib Dems trebled their tuition fees?theakes said:ICM Poll. How on earth can Greens be on 5%, they have virtually disappeared from elections and where they stand they are nearly always reduced to the barest minimum. ICM must be having a laugh, they have certainly ceased to be "gold standard"
When push comes to shove, when it really matters - will those who voted Lib Dem in 2010 trust them again?
I wouldn't bet on it.
Which party originally introduced tuition fees?
But we went from 7% going to university in my day (no fees) to over 40% nowadays.
Only fair that those going should pay an extra tax on future earnings to repay some of the costs, rather than it being paid for by those who don't go to university. Also it would otherwise be even more unaffordable than it already is.
we could pay tuition fees by scrapping the DFID budget
in the old days we got our money back by taxing graduates later in life at the higher rate when they succeeded
today we just tax the young up front and then dump the residue on the taxpayer
its a failed policy and the Tories should be ashamed they wont change it
Double bollocks.
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You don't even have to be that rich. As long as you're solvent with a few bob to spare, not thick as a plank and keep yourself in reasonably good condition, it's not terribly hard to pick up a reasonable date.SeanT said:
You don't have to be young. I'm fifty bloody three. Helps if you're rich.Casino_Royale said:
If I was still young free and single..SeanT said:
Another way of saying Patriarchy is "Daddy Issues", and speaking from recent personal experience, it is surprising how many Corbynite feminist young women want to be spanked by the Evil Forces of Capitalism, especially if the Exploitative Tory is wearing a waistcoat.Pulpstar said:
I have a suspicion that those that protest the most are also probably the most susceptible to err "charms".SeanT said:
Nope, I'm afraid I was totally useless at noticing women coming on to me, at Uni.Casino_Royale said:
As the bona fide Tory Boy at university, I was the performing monkey at house parties. Even when introduced by friends to gorgeous left-liberal girls as such, I did often get on rather well with them but missed several opportunities from sheer naivety.PlatoSaid said:
I've just started rewatching Big Bang Theory from the start on Netflix.
I instantly thought of Raj and Penny
Not a mistake SeanT would have made.
I recall one incident in the Union bar, as it was closing for the evening, when a girl put a hand on my knee and said, "Can I come and stay at your place tonight?"
She was really hot.
I looked at her, perplexed, and said "Isn't there a night bus to your part of town"? At which point she rolled her eyes (as did all my mates) and left me to me Fosters, with a justified and contemptuous sneer.
It wasn't until my late 20s that I finally clued up. It wasn't until my 30s that I realised women like men to be ruthless, assertive, dominant (within reason). I fear there is some truth in Trump's remark, once you reach a certain level of success or confidence, you can just "grab them by the pussy" and they will yield.
I emphasise I don't do this. But I have no doubt it works.
Projection and all that good psychological stuff.
You have to actually want to do it, though. Personally, I'm not particularly interested in having a series of quick shags, but I'd quite like to find another long-term partner. Typical beta male, I guess, but that's what makes me happy. Suitable candidates are pretty thin on the ground, though.0 -
foxinsoxuk said:
@welford
Welcome. Another East Midlander? interesting link.
Only 53% wanted to leave regardless of the outcome of the talks, the remainder have at least some resrrvations. Opinion is not shifting a great deal.
Incidentally, I am in the "Leave regardless" camp. Remain was the better choice, but the effect on our country of backtracking woild be worse than the disruptions of Brexit.
The headline figure has changed. But from 51.8% Leave, to 53% Leave Under Any Circumstances surely has to be a fairly big hardening of position within in the UK as a whole, and your own evolution of position to reflect reality is good anecdotal evidence to support that.0 -
Thought that was illegalisam said:Why can't we make companies based in the U.K. pay minimum wage to overseas workers?
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/8235858627599441930 -
Because (a) they are usually employees of sub-contractors, not direct employees and (b) it would distort the economies of those countries by trapping people in relatively low value added employment rather than the development of an indigenous business ecosystemisam said:Why can't we make companies based in the U.K. pay minimum wage to overseas workers?
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/823585862759944193
Basically consumers need to be willing to pay more for clothes made by people who earn a living wage0 -
Isn't most of Aeroflot's metal registered in F or EI so that they can assure their international pax they're subject to an effective safety regulatory regime?matt said:
Airlines are relentlessly commercial organisations. BOAC and BEA were pushing back 50 years ago in government demands to buy British. The ones that aren't are Sabena or Alitalia. Even Aeroflot buys Russian only under duress.rcs1000 said:
It's amazing how little 'home' advantage Boeing and Airbus have. The big US carriers run thousands of A320s, and the Europeans have equally many 777s and 737s.CarlottaVance said:Putin does protectionism;
https://www.rt.com/business/374797-putin-russia-made-aircraft/
Though the idea that Boeing doesn't sell in Europe, or Airbus in the USA is touching.....0 -
Because that's not our jurisdiction.isam said:Why can't we make companies based in the U.K. pay minimum wage to overseas workers?
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/823585862759944193
Is that minimum wage based on nominal exchange rates, purchasing power parity or some other metric for starters?
What's to stop companies based in the UK importing from foreign nations and outsourcing what investments they did have overseas instead? Cutting our own nose but not changing anything.
Is a wage below our minimum wage but above THEIR minimum wage or even average wage in that nation a bad deal for them?
I could go on.
Edit just saw this was a business in Leicester not overseas. The IS illegal then.0 -
Why so confident he will cede power?SeanT said:
Nah. I've studied Fascism. Trump is a narcissist, nativist demagogue, he's Berlusconi with loads of nukes and some *interesting* ideas on economics and immigration.Pong said:
Donald Trump is an actual fascist, Sean.SeanT said:
It's sneering wankpiffle like this that got Trump elected.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
He's not, for instance, about to abolish democracy and pass an Enabling Act, which is a pretty fundamental aspect of Fascism.
No actual proper Fascist has willingly ceded power in a democratic election, which I happily predict Donald will do, in 2020 or 2024.
Surely it's a given that if he loses re election he will say the election is rigged.
So why wouldn't he try to stay in power?0 -
You need the military & security services onside to be a dictator.rkrkrk said:
Why so confident he will cede power?SeanT said:
Nah. I've studied Fascism. Trump is a narcissist, nativist demagogue, he's Berlusconi with loads of nukes and some *interesting* ideas on economics and immigration.Pong said:
Donald Trump is an actual fascist, Sean.SeanT said:
It's sneering wankpiffle like this that got Trump elected.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
He's not, for instance, about to abolish democracy and pass an Enabling Act, which is a pretty fundamental aspect of Fascism.
No actual proper Fascist has willingly ceded power in a democratic election, which I happily predict Donald will do, in 2020 or 2024.
Surely it's a given that if he loses re election he will say the election is rigged.
So why wouldn't he try to stay in power?0 -
@Charles @Philip_Thompson
Thanks
Feels wrong to me. I would say the firms should have to pay the minimum wage of the country they're based in regardless of who receives it
Edit: Philip I hadn't read it either and had assumed the workers were abroad0 -
He'll be 78 in 2024, will want to retire I expect.rkrkrk said:
Why so confident he will cede power?SeanT said:
Nah. I've studied Fascism. Trump is a narcissist, nativist demagogue, he's Berlusconi with loads of nukes and some *interesting* ideas on economics and immigration.Pong said:
Donald Trump is an actual fascist, Sean.SeanT said:
It's sneering wankpiffle like this that got Trump elected.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
He's not, for instance, about to abolish democracy and pass an Enabling Act, which is a pretty fundamental aspect of Fascism.
No actual proper Fascist has willingly ceded power in a democratic election, which I happily predict Donald will do, in 2020 or 2024.
Surely it's a given that if he loses re election he will say the election is rigged.
So why wouldn't he try to stay in power?0 -
If they had to get the clothes made by people on UK minimum wage, they'd employ people in Britain to do it because the logistics would favour it (assuming employee NI exemptions).isam said:Why can't we make companies based in the U.K. pay minimum wage to overseas workers?
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/823585862759944193
There was still a rag trade in east London prior to the introduction of the minimum wage. The housing developments around Aldgate Triangle were still clothes factories in 1997.0 -
He might get them... He certainly had plenty of FBI support this time around.John_M said:
You need the military & security services onside to be a dictator.rkrkrk said:
Why so confident he will cede power?SeanT said:
Nah. I've studied Fascism. Trump is a narcissist, nativist demagogue, he's Berlusconi with loads of nukes and some *interesting* ideas on economics and immigration.Pong said:
Donald Trump is an actual fascist, Sean.SeanT said:
It's sneering wankpiffle like this that got Trump elected.Pong said:
Most of the people who remember anything like Trump happening in their lifetime have now died. Those who are educated and understand history are not culturally connected with the minority who elected him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Can anyone remember anything like Trump happening in the past - I can't
He's not, for instance, about to abolish democracy and pass an Enabling Act, which is a pretty fundamental aspect of Fascism.
No actual proper Fascist has willingly ceded power in a democratic election, which I happily predict Donald will do, in 2020 or 2024.
Surely it's a given that if he loses re election he will say the election is rigged.
So why wouldn't he try to stay in power?
0
