Skip to content

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A measure of the anti-elite backlash will be when when a non-d

SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited January 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A measure of the anti-elite backlash will be when when a non-dark blue educated leader becomes a GE winner

It is 81 years since a party led by a grad of a university other than Oxford led his/her party to a general election victory. This table shows what happened in the intervening period

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    First? Surely not...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,896
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    First? Surely not...

    An Oxford first?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Douglas
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited January 2017
    Not just the same university, the same course: Wilson, Heath, Blair and Cameron all read PPE at Oxford.

    As did many of their ministers and civil servants.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    edited January 2017
    Us Light Blues have much more important things to do than be Prime Minister.

    There's an unarguable case that Alan Turing did more to win the war than say Clement Attlee.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Not just the same university, the same course: Wilson, Heath, Blair and Cameron all read PPE at Oxford.

    As did many of their ministers and civil servants.

    No they didn't.

    Blair read Jurisprudence.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,896
    edited January 2017
    Absolute proof that use of sports-based metaphors is shit.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/816906880043941892
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Us Light Blues have much more important things to do than be Prime Minister.

    There's an unarguable case that Alan Turing did more to win the war than say Clement Attlee.

    You light blues just poured a bucket of shit over Osborne this morning.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Absolute proof that use of sports-based metaphors is shit.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/816906880043941892

    "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" sounds dangerously like revealing his hand.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Come 2020 another to add to the list....a Geographer this time, after our previous female Chemist.....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
    Four, isn't it? Didn't we have that question a while ago?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
    Three.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Innocent_Abroad said:

    First? Surely not...

    An Oxford first?
    An undivided Second, from an unfashionable college. But I have to own up to PPE...

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    david_herdson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
    Four, isn't it? Didn't we have that question a while ago?
    We've done it on this site more than once :)

    The trick is not to include the only one who people think of as a James, his first name in Leonard.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Not just the same university, the same course: Wilson, Heath, Blair and Cameron all read PPE at Oxford.

    As did many of their ministers and civil servants.

    No they didn't.

    Blair read Jurisprudence.
    You and your fancy legal facts!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    david_herdson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
    Four, isn't it? Didn't we have that question a while ago?
    Three

    1) James Ramsay MacDonald
    2) James Harold Wilson
    3) James Gordon Brown

    Leonard James Callaghan isn't eligible.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    On topic, unlikely to be any break with the pattern. May went to Oxford; Corbyn didn't go anywhere.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,896
    williamglenn said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Absolute proof that use of sports-based metaphors is shit.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/816906880043941892

    "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" sounds dangerously like revealing his hand.
    Perhaps Mr Fletcher has inadvertently let slip their strategy.

    'In competitive situations other than boxing, rope-a-dope is used to describe strategies in which one party purposely puts itself in what appears to be a losing position, attempting thereby to become the eventual victor.'

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    david_herdson said:

    On topic, unlikely to be any break with the pattern. May went to Oxford; Corbyn didn't go anywhere.

    Corbyn only got two Es at A-level and failed to finish his course in Trade Union Studies, even though it was at North London Polytechnic.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    The history thing sounds like King John revisionism, where some praise his bean-counting and ignore smaller things like sexually molesting his nobles' female relatives, or losing English territory in France, or trying to usurp his brother, or losing half of England to the French before he did the decent thing and died.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    david_herdson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
    Four, isn't it? Didn't we have that question a while ago?
    Three

    1) James Ramsay MacDonald
    2) James Harold Wilson
    3) James Gordon Brown

    Leonard James Callaghan isn't eligible.
    How many Dele's has there been as PM?

    Talking of form and class.... I see Spurs breaking in to the top 4 for the first time since Oct coincides with another rare event in the PB fantasy footie... and please also note the correlation with the lack of any English cricket going on!!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Absolute proof that use of sports-based metaphors is shit.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/816906880043941892

    He also said that as a West Ham fan, he realised that "they played better when the fans weren't booing them".

    Now, why do you think the fans would boo their own team?

    An own goal, if I may say, metaphor-wise.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    david_herdson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Oxford Graduates only slightly more over-represented that people with the name "James".

    My favourite pub quiz question.

    How many Labour Prime Ministers have there been with the first name James?
    Four, isn't it? Didn't we have that question a while ago?
    Three

    1) James Ramsay MacDonald
    2) James Harold Wilson
    3) James Gordon Brown

    Leonard James Callaghan isn't eligible.
    How many Dele's has there been as PM?

    Talking of form and class.... I see Spurs breaking in to the top 4 for the first time since Oct coincides with another rare event in the PB fantasy footie... and please also note the correlation with the lack of any English cricket going on!!
    I'm yet to deploy my triple captain and other boosts.

    Stock up on Manchester United players for the next round of matches because

    1) It's Manchester United v Liverpool

    2) I'm going to Old Trafford

    3) England play India that day in the first one dayer.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,283
    Not another Oxbridge thread - giving the usual PB suspects the opportunity (yet again) to tell us they went there.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    edited January 2017
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Not another Oxbridge thread - giving the usual PB suspects the opportunity (yet again) to tell us they went there.

    Pitiful Bragging?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Without looking, can anyone guess which Oxford College has two of the PMs listed? All the rest went to different colleges.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,982
    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Casino_Royale said:

    david_herdson said:

    On topic, unlikely to be any break with the pattern. May went to Oxford; Corbyn didn't go anywhere.

    Corbyn only got two Es at A-level and failed to finish his course in Trade Union Studies, even though it was at North London Polytechnic.
    Is the correct response to that "bless"?

    My favourite shadow cabinet appointment is currently Education.

    "Born Angela Bowen, she attended Avondale School, Stockport, leaving school pregnant and with no qualifications."

    Wonderful.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Not another Oxbridge thread - giving the usual PB suspects the opportunity (yet again) to tell us they went there.

    But it isn't Oxbridge......that's rather the point....
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    tlg86 said:

    Without looking, can anyone guess which Oxford College has two of the PMs listed? All the rest went to different colleges.

    Is it Balliol?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    27, and counting.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    None of my friends or family have a degree

    We're such salt of the earth East End rough diamonds ! :)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tlg86 said:

    Without looking, can anyone guess which Oxford College has two of the PMs listed? All the rest went to different colleges.

    Pbers who can name any Oxford colleges are at an unfair advantage here.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    And Remainers. :)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Not another Oxbridge thread - giving the usual PB suspects the opportunity (yet again) to tell us they went there.

    Have I mentioned that one of tutors also taught May? :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,896
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
    St Andrew's definitely.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    And traitors......
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Without looking, can anyone guess which Oxford College has two of the PMs listed? All the rest went to different colleges.

    Is it Balliol?
    Well done - MacMillan and Heath.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,860
    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Without looking, can anyone guess which Oxford College has two of the PMs listed? All the rest went to different colleges.

    Pbers who can name any Oxford colleges are at an unfair advantage here.
    Balliol? Heath and Macmillan?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    CarlottaVance said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    And traitors......
    Actual traitors too, iirc.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    williamglenn said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Absolute proof that use of sports-based metaphors is shit.
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/816906880043941892

    "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" sounds dangerously like revealing his hand.
    That wasnt what he did though..rope a dope..
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,896
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
    St Andrew's definitely.
    Yes good point.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,575
    david_herdson said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Without looking, can anyone guess which Oxford College has two of the PMs listed? All the rest went to different colleges.

    Pbers who can name any Oxford colleges are at an unfair advantage here.
    Balliol? Heath and Macmillan?
    St Johns? Blair and one other.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    MaxPB said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    And traitors......
    Actual traitors too, iirc.
    There was an Oxford spy ring but they were so inept they were caught almost immediately -- though there has been the odd suggestion maybe some did escape detection.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I clearly remember a chapter in my German O level book which was all about the wall. The word I remember most is Stacheldraht - barbed wire. Very useful!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    I always knew you were a wise man.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,575
    What about the degrees they took? Plenty of PPE. Only one scientist?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Patrick said:

    I clearly remember a chapter in my German O level book which was all about the wall. The word I remember most is Stacheldraht - barbed wire. Very useful!

    My husband took German and could only recall 'fried egg' and 'traffic light' - I thought the fried egg was perfect, they seem to be on everything.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    rottenborough said:

    What about the degrees they took? Plenty of PPE. Only one scientist?

    The odd science in politics theme is the correlation with sex. Mrs Thatcher and Frau Merkel were both chemists; Margaret Beckett was a metallurgist.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,577
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
    Somewhat surprisingly perhaps, in the mid 80s Cardiff was the only University which had a Tory student union administration. Welshowl and I both dabbled in that at the time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Mr. Enjineeya, believe it or not, I did know that (I think the U in Sturmgewehr needs an umlaut too) but don't know how to easily manufacture an umlaut.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
    Somewhat surprisingly perhaps, in the mid 80s Cardiff was the only University which had a Tory student union administration. Welshowl and I both dabbled in that at the time.
    By 2005 it was extremely left wing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    rottenborough said:

    What about the degrees they took? Plenty of PPE. Only one scientist?

    MacMillan read the Classics I believe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Miss Plato, can't remember traffic lights. Probably should be able to. Can remember die ersten links, zweiten rechts und uber die Kreuzung (first left, second right, over the crossroads).

    I can, however, remember that a Luftkissenboot is a hovercraft. Ich habe die besten Worte.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,860
    Theuniondivvie said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
    I'm not sure the concept even exists in Germany. If something is incorrect, it is incorrect, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out the error. The hint of anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism that permeates British discourse is rather less pronounced in Germany.

    On a vaguely related topic, I've almost finished reading Marc Elsberg's Blackout, an absolutely cracking science thriller based on the premise of cyber-terrorists shutting down the electricity supply of most of Europe for an extended period. It's very plausibly written and obviously well researched. The English translation is due out next month, and I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good disaster novel.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    None of them paid any tuition fees and none of them paid (or will pay) graduate tax.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
    I'm not sure the concept even exists in Germany. If something is incorrect, it is incorrect, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out the error. The hint of anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism that permeates British discourse is rather less pronounced in Germany.

    On a vaguely related topic, I've almost finished reading Marc Elsberg's Blackout, an absolutely cracking science thriller based on the premise of cyber-terrorists shutting down the electricity supply of most of Europe for an extended period. It's very plausibly written and obviously well researched. The English translation is due out next month, and I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good disaster novel.
    Sounds interesting, I'll definitely keep a look out for it. I've just started The Witcher book series, if you're even slightly interested in fantasy it's well worth picking up. I got the first 5 books for a fiver for my Kindle.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    O/T but interesting evidence of creeping metrification in the US - http://fl.milesplit.com/articles/199628-new-rule-implements-use-of-metric-measurement-in-all-field-events
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees.

    The government should pass a retrospective law to say that graduates should pay a percentage of their earned income to the government. And then send Blair a massive bill.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Excellent services PMI figure:

    The closely watched Markit/CIPS services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) reached 56.2 in December, up from 55.2 in November and above economists’ forecasts of 54.7.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited January 2017
    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees.

    The government should pass a retrospective law to say that graduates should pay a percentage of their earned income to the government. And then send Blair a massive bill.
    Tuition fees - if implemented at all - should have been retrospective.

    The current arrangements amount to a huge generational f*ck-over.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
    I'm not sure the concept even exists in Germany. If something is incorrect, it is incorrect, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out the error. The hint of anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism that permeates British discourse is rather less pronounced in Germany.

    On a vaguely related topic, I've almost finished reading Marc Elsberg's Blackout, an absolutely cracking science thriller based on the premise of cyber-terrorists shutting down the electricity supply of most of Europe for an extended period. It's very plausibly written and obviously well researched. The English translation is due out next month, and I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good disaster novel.
    Microsoft's Mark Russinovich wrote a similarly-themed novel. Any resemblance to not-Russian hackers attacking the grids of Ukraine and the United States is no doubt coincidental.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,577
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Excellent services PMI figure:

    The closely watched Markit/CIPS services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) reached 56.2 in December, up from 55.2 in November and above economists’ forecasts of 54.7.

    Matches similar figures a few days ago in both manufacturing and construction.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,398
    edited January 2017
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Excellent services PMI figure:

    The closely watched Markit/CIPS services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) reached 56.2 in December, up from 55.2 in November and above economists’ forecasts of 54.7.

    Careful, the remainers will be calling you a Tory
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Excellent services PMI figure:

    The closely watched Markit/CIPS services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) reached 56.2 in December, up from 55.2 in November and above economists’ forecasts of 54.7.

    Notably weak Sterling is driving export demand. Could be a proper J shaped recovery in our trade deficit down the line.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Just a counter-factual question that occurred to me: suppose we'd voted to leave the EU, but were in the eurozone?

    Would we be wishing we could be devaluing the currency? Would we be glad for the stabilising effect of a broad currency umbrella?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    rottenborough said:

    What about the degrees they took? Plenty of PPE. Only one scientist?

    The odd science in politics theme is the correlation with sex. Mrs Thatcher and Frau Merkel were both chemists; Margaret Beckett was a metallurgist.
    Karen Bradley at Culture, Media and Sport was a mathematician.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,027
    edited January 2017
    The Oxford (With very occasional Cambridge and a couple of Edinburgh/Glasgow or none) sequence continues right back to Sir Robert Walpole.

    Previous to that it seems the most important non royal position was the Lord High Treasurer, which seems to have been related to the church in the early days - (Various Bishops seemed to get the position, the first of which was Nigel of Ely...).

    Before that position was created the key figure I suppose was the Archbishop of Canterbury, and that gets you back to St Augustine in ~ 600.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,130
    Pong said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees.

    The government should pass a retrospective law to say that graduates should pay a percentage of their earned income to the government. And then send Blair a massive bill.
    Tuition fees - if implemented at all - should have been retrospective.

    The current arrangements amount to a huge generational f*ck-over.
    Yes, I was fortunate enough to be in the final year before the top up fees came in. And because both of my parents were out of work (basically retired) I didn't have to pay anything in my final year (which I didn't understand as they could have just added it to my loan like everything else, but I didn't complain!).

    It's another thing that makes me think we're heading for trouble. The more graduates have to pay back in fees, the less they'll have to spend on other things including housing. At some point something will have to give.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,575
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
    Somewhat surprisingly perhaps, in the mid 80s Cardiff was the only University which had a Tory student union administration. Welshowl and I both dabbled in that at the time.
    Nottingham was deeply Tory in 1980s.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,884
    edited January 2017
    Pong said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees.

    The government should pass a retrospective law to say that graduates should pay a percentage of their earned income to the government. And then send Blair a massive bill.
    Tuition fees - if implemented at all - should have been retrospective.

    The current arrangements amount to a huge generational f*ck-over.
    That sounds a very good idea. What other new costs could we impose and make retrospective, I wonder? There's scope for raising a huge amount of money in that line. A hefty tax on house purchases, perhaps?

    We could go the whole hog and simply nationalise all housing. Then we could turn people out of big houses that are surplus to their needs & use them for larger families - or build over their gardens/fields.

    One for Mr Corbyn's government, perhaps.

    Good morning, everyone.

    (Edited to add: this is supposed to be a joke.)
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Excellent services PMI figure:

    The closely watched Markit/CIPS services purchasing managers’ index (PMI) reached 56.2 in December, up from 55.2 in November and above economists’ forecasts of 54.7.

    Morning all. Apart from the intrinsic pleasure of decent PMI figures all round (and I include Europe), it's delightful to see the contortions that Sam Tombs is going through trying to interpret them :).
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Pong said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees.

    The government should pass a retrospective law to say that graduates should pay a percentage of their earned income to the government. And then send Blair a massive bill.
    Tuition fees - if implemented at all - should have been retrospective.

    The current arrangements amount to a huge generational f*ck-over.
    Retrospective taxation comes with a number of problems....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, can't remember traffic lights. Probably should be able to. Can remember die ersten links, zweiten rechts und uber die Kreuzung (first left, second right, over the crossroads).

    I can, however, remember that a Luftkissenboot is a hovercraft. Ich habe die besten Worte.

    Ampfel, I think? (Dredges mind back 25 years to GCSE German).
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,584
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Just a counter-factual question that occurred to me: suppose we'd voted to leave the EU, but were in the eurozone?

    Would we be wishing we could be devaluing the currency? Would we be glad for the stabilising effect of a broad currency umbrella?

    I think in that scenario the government would have declared a week of bank holidays and converted all deposits to Sterling and replaced all of the country's cash within that time. I don't think it would be possible to leave the Eurozone any other way, it would completely undermine the banking industry to talk about changing the currency but not actually do it.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Looking at the thread-header table again, three were barristers: Attlee, Thatcher and Blair.

    Three were Old Etonians: Eden, Macmillan and Cameron.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    F1: just reading a technical article on the banned suspension (seems to be trying to reproduce the advantages of the front-rear-interconnected [FRIC] suspension from a few years ago).
    https://thewptformula.com/2017/01/05/tech-highlights-mercedesred-bull-energy-recovery-suspension/

    Given Ferrari complained and Red Bull/Mercedes have been making particular use of it, this should see a relative advantage for Ferrari. That said, I still think they'd be relieved if they're third fastest in the forthcoming season.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Mr. Herdson, maybe.

    Good morning, Mr. M and Miss JGP.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,860
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
    I'm not sure the concept even exists in Germany. If something is incorrect, it is incorrect, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out the error. The hint of anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism that permeates British discourse is rather less pronounced in Germany.

    On a vaguely related topic, I've almost finished reading Marc Elsberg's Blackout, an absolutely cracking science thriller based on the premise of cyber-terrorists shutting down the electricity supply of most of Europe for an extended period. It's very plausibly written and obviously well researched. The English translation is due out next month, and I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good disaster novel.
    Microsoft's Mark Russinovich wrote a similarly-themed novel. Any resemblance to not-Russian hackers attacking the grids of Ukraine and the United States is no doubt coincidental.
    Any similarity probably is coincidental, given that the two books were originally published within a year of one another.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees and none of them paid (or will pay) graduate tax.

    Those educated pre-WWII would have done, wouldn't they? In fact, all bar Blair, Cameron and possibly Thatcher (not sure what the situation was during WWII).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,896
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
    I'm not sure the concept even exists in Germany. If something is incorrect, it is incorrect, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out the error. The hint of anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism that permeates British discourse is rather less pronounced in Germany.

    On a vaguely related topic, I've almost finished reading Marc Elsberg's Blackout, an absolutely cracking science thriller based on the premise of cyber-terrorists shutting down the electricity supply of most of Europe for an extended period. It's very plausibly written and obviously well researched. The English translation is due out next month, and I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good disaster novel.
    Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll look out for it. Just finished Bernhard Schlink's (The Reader) crime/thriller collaboration with Walter Popp, Self's Punishment, 'twas excellent I thought.

    Slightly bathetically, on the anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism front I watched Rick Stein's Long Weekends last night which was set in Berlin (very enjoyable it was too). One strand which reflected my idea of the place was its anti-authoritarian, bolshy attitude compared to the rest of Germany.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    FPT: Miss Jones, that's demented. I can still remember "Wie komme ich am besten zum Bahnhof, bitte?" or "Wo konnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?" (What is the best way to the train station/Where could I buy an assault rifle).

    Since I don't have much better to do at the moment, I'll nit-pick your German. "Konnte" is past tense; you want "könnte", which is the conditional. So that should be: "Wo könnte ich ein Sturmgewehr kaufen?".
    I don't suppose grammar Nazi is a term much bandied about in Germany.
    I'm not sure the concept even exists in Germany. If something is incorrect, it is incorrect, and it is perfectly acceptable to point out the error. The hint of anti-intellectualism/anti-authoritarianism that permeates British discourse is rather less pronounced in Germany.

    On a vaguely related topic, I've almost finished reading Marc Elsberg's Blackout, an absolutely cracking science thriller based on the premise of cyber-terrorists shutting down the electricity supply of most of Europe for an extended period. It's very plausibly written and obviously well researched. The English translation is due out next month, and I'd recommend it to anyone who enjoys a good disaster novel.
    Microsoft's Mark Russinovich wrote a similarly-themed novel. Any resemblance to not-Russian hackers attacking the grids of Ukraine and the United States is no doubt coincidental.
    Any similarity probably is coincidental, given that the two books were originally published within a year of one another.
    I meant the coincidence with the real-life cyber attacks on electricity grids.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2017
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Just a counter-factual question that occurred to me: suppose we'd voted to leave the EU, but were in the eurozone?

    Would we be wishing we could be devaluing the currency? Would we be glad for the stabilising effect of a broad currency umbrella?

    Oooh. Depends hugely on what rate we had hypothetically joined the Euro. The Euro is far too weak for Germany. Pre Brexit the pound was far too high. Only one got its correction. A country needs the right exchange rate for its currency based upon the facts of its economy. No country in the Euro gets that. Some get a Euro that is too weak and for some it's too strong. They need a transfer union and a political union or its going to break at some point.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    williamglenn said:

    O/T but interesting evidence of creeping metrification in the US - http://fl.milesplit.com/articles/199628-new-rule-implements-use-of-metric-measurement-in-all-field-events

    Creeping, as a glacier creeps. The fact that imperial measurements are so widely used in a sport where metric is universal at elite level shows, if anything, how resistant the US is to adopting metric.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pong said:

    None of them paid any tuition fees.

    The government should pass a retrospective law to say that graduates should pay a percentage of their earned income to the government. And then send Blair a massive bill.
    Tuition fees - if implemented at all - should have been retrospective.

    The current arrangements amount to a huge generational f*ck-over.
    Yes, I was fortunate enough to be in the final year before the top up fees came in. And because both of my parents were out of work (basically retired) I didn't have to pay anything in my final year (which I didn't understand as they could have just added it to my loan like everything else, but I didn't complain!).

    It's another thing that makes me think we're heading for trouble. The more graduates have to pay back in fees, the less they'll have to spend on other things including housing. At some point something will have to give.
    At some point, house prices will have to fall. One of the many failings of my generation (a side effect of the increasing wealth in this country), is our propensity to assist our children in getting on the housing ladder. That's perfectly understandable, but it's served to break one of the fundamental moderators that traditionally governed the housing market.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,361
    Patrick said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Just a counter-factual question that occurred to me: suppose we'd voted to leave the EU, but were in the eurozone?

    Would we be wishing we could be devaluing the currency? Would we be glad for the stabilising effect of a broad currency umbrella?

    Oooh. Depends hugely on what rate we had hypothetically joined the Euro. The Euro is far too weak for Germany. Pre Brexit the pound was far too high. Only one got its correction. A country needs the right exchange rate for its currency based upon the facts of its economy. No country in the Euro gets that. Some get a Euro that is too weak and for some it's too strong. They need a transfer union and a political union or its going to break at some point.
    If we'd joined the Eurozone after a decision in, say, 2001, then the next seven years in the UK would have looked like those in Ireland and the whole history of the UK and of the EU would have been different and very ugly. (Indeed, the history at 2001 would have needed to be different in order for the UK to join).
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Hull University had a Conservative President in the mid-1970s - despite the local MPs being solidly Labour, the various student unions in the city were right wing. In 1977 the College SU sent a National Front member to the annual NUS conference, which caused quite a stir. If I remember correctly, he was called to speak in a debate and appeared looking very cool in a buttoned-up black shirt. Politics aside, one of the bravest things I've ever witnessed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,939
    edited January 2017
    Given the best universities in the country are Oxford and Cambridge (with the PPE course provided by the former but not the latter explaining its disproportionate share of PMs) it is not surprising Oxford is overrepresented in election winning MPs (though Chamberlain went to Birmingham and Brown Edinburgh albeit neither won an election). However I don't see why an election winning non-Oxbridge PM would be a defeat for the elite for example if an Eton and Bristol educated City Lawyer beat a comprehensive and Oxford educated social worker would that be a defeat for the elite? I think not.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,942
    edited January 2017
    Patrick said:

    I clearly remember a chapter in my German O level book which was all about the wall. The word I remember most is Stacheldraht - barbed wire. Very useful!

    A a table was a Spaniard an Englishman a Portuguese a Frenchman and a German discussing who had the prettiest language.

    The Englishman said What could be more attractive than 'butterfly'"?

    "Mariposa" said the Spaniard

    "Borboleta'" said the Portuguese

    "Papillon" said the Frenchman

    ....and what's wrong with "Schmetterling"? said the German
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,866
    Mr. Roger, Germany does have a lot of good artists, though. I'm sure it'd be enthralling to visit a Kunstmuseum.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,760
    edited January 2017
    On topic, the "anti-elitist backlash" consists of elderly and middle-aged white people who don't like checks and balances that restrict their power. Farage was a commodities trader, son of a stockbroker, and Trump was a real estate tycoon, son of a real estate tycoon. They won't mind more Oxford people as long as they don't try giving rights to less powerful minorities.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Given the best universities in the country are Oxford and Cambridge (with the PPE course provided by the former but not the latter explaining its disproportionate share of PMs) it is not surprising Oxford is overrepresented in election winning MPs (though Chamberlain went to Birmingham and Brown Edinburgh albeit neither won an election). However I don't see why an election winning non-Oxbridge PM would be a defeat for the elite for example if an Eton and Bristol educated City Lawyer beat a comprehensive and Oxford educated social worker would that be a defeat for the elite? I think not.

    I have heard from more than one source recently that public school pupils currently looking for university places are rejecting Oxford and Cambridge for other reasons than that they don't think they are bright enough. There may of course be a huge "they would say that, wouldn't they?" factor in this.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    rottenborough said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    So basically while Cambridge nurtures genius and advances mankind, Oxford just dicks the country about

    Cambridge is the home of rabid leftism. :/
    Every university is the home of rabid leftism. Save for Durham, Exeter, perhaps.
    Somewhat surprisingly perhaps, in the mid 80s Cardiff was the only University which had a Tory student union administration. Welshowl and I both dabbled in that at the time.
    Nottingham was deeply Tory in 1980s.

    Nottingham University is dominated by Engineers and Scientists who are practical people rather than dreamers.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Roger, you forgot the Italian ' farfalla'
This discussion has been closed.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025