politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theoretically at least TMay is the leader with biggest challen

david_herdson said:

isam said:

Stark_Dawning said:

isam said:

TOPPING said:

isam said:

But how does it all happen?

We need a plan, some goals, a strategy and then we need to execute efficiently.

You lot (apologies) seem to be saying let's just go for it now and it will all fall into place. As that wise and worldly ex-Civil Servant pointed out, free trade deals don't "just happen".

.

Yes

It would be no different to the current state of affairs where some governments have looser or tighter arrangements with foreign countries, which the EU now is. But to shut up those who lost the referendum and are trying to nause it for everyone, I'd accept Daves crap, rejected deal as a holding position

It's a nice idea, but Dave's deal became dead and buried with the Leave vote - there was a death clause for it in the negotiations. Vanilla WTO membership is now our default position; we need to build up whatever we can from that.

Ok what I am inferring is we should take the softest brexit possible, I used Daves deal as an example

I'm quite sure that the 'softest Brexit possible' would be easily attainable: it would be exactly the same as now, other than without any UK representation in the institutions. It also wouldn't be Brexit in any meaningful way.

The Brexit vote has to be honoured, which as a minimum means an end to free movement of people, an end to the jurisdiction of the CJEU over the UK and a substantial reduction in the club fee. In reality, I don't see how that can be squared with Single Market membership. As such, there ought to be no reason for Britain to pay a fee at all. That should be the baseline from which negotiations start.

Of course it wouldn't be Brexit in any meaningful way, that's what the people whining are trying to get! But I would offer them that as an olive branch/dummy to shut them up for the time being. At the next GE each party will have a manifesto outlining what they think our relationship w the EU should be, no different to any other foreign policy.

The idea that whatever May gets is set in stone, and would be the same whether the next Govt is a coalition between Lab/LD or Con/UKIP is crazy! It will change w every change of govt just like everything else

Dromedary said:

Tim_B said:

Presumably the UK has to open negotiations and show its hand first.

Once A50 is in, why presume that Britain has to make the next move?

This isn't a proposed rule-change or a divorce.

DavidL said:

rcs1000 said:

There are other questions, too, such as which EU-led programmes (Erasmus, Galileo, European Medicines Agency, the pan-European Air Traffic control thingy etc.) that we wish to remain members of.

I think our starting position would be "yes" to all of them. If this causes a problem in the negotiations so be it.

Tough talk. Say EU27 adopts the starting position that it's "no" to all of them. What do you do then?

Or they could say "Fine! We'll help you with everything on your list, limies! Especially air traffic control, which we know is so important to you. And you'll give up the City of London's operations on the continent, yes?"

Well Galileo does seem to be a bit of an EU vanity project, so wouldn't be the end of the world to drop out of that.

Dromedary said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

rcs1000 said:

Tim_B said:

Regarding hard vs soft brexit, as someone viewing this from afar it seems to me that what the Leavers want from brexit is less important than understanding what the EU is prepared to give, as the UK is the supplicant on this.

The second largest economy in the EU is leaving, there are eurozone problems, the immigration crisis and so on.

It is surely not in the EU interest to give the UK too good a deal, as then others will want out too. The deal also has to be approved by all 27 countries (plus Wallonia)?

On the other hand, the EU won't want to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Presumably the UK has to open negotiations and show its hand first.

There are other questions, too, such as which EU-led programmes (Erasmus, Galileo, European Medicines Agency, the pan-European Air Traffic control thingy etc.) that we wish to remain members of.

Surely that would be, which EU-led programmes the EU would like us to continue to pay money into.

Sure, all British membership of the EU ever was was robbery of the country by foreigners. Lorries full of cash left the Bank of England every day for Brussels, where cackling foreigners said in their foreign and incomprehensible languages "Thanks for all the cash!"

I'm glad we see it the same way. 'There is more joy in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth' etc.

Richard_Nabavi said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Chenoncy

Chipoopie

Escargot.

View_From_Cumbria said:

The joining the EEC 50p piece had hands holding each other in a ring which pre-imagined the ring of 12 stars to represent the then 11 members. There will be endless fun drawing the one hand two finger gesture on the leave EU 50p coin.

9 members in 1973.

Oddly, eight of the hands were male, with one female. I never worked out why. I remember my gran telling me that they represented the heads of state at the time and that the female hand was the Queen's. Except that that can't be true because both Denmark and the Netherlands had queens as head of state at the time as well.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carolus_Rex said:

welshowl said:

tpfkar

Re my "2037 EU" question. Indeed. I'm often struck how the USA sat down in 1787 (?) four years after gaining independence and wrote the template that still holds. They spent 1775 -83 being unified in what they were against (King George, no taxation without representation etc) but then sat down pdq to work out what the 13 little states had in common and what they all voted to sign up for. 230 years and counting implies they didn't do a bad job.

Where's the open visionary European equivalent? One of my major distrusts of the EU is my perception that nothing major was ever done by the front door of actually getting the consent of the people (nobody will ever convince me Germans would've voted to swap the DM for the Euro - and they would've been right and saved everyone an awful lot of grief if they'd been given a chance). It's almost as if Brussels is scared witless of the prospect of articulating a full fat, full caffeine federal union (jeez there's enough models out there USA, Canada, Australia, India), hence the constant diet of fudge to limbo.

Re the USA I believe it did get a bit rocky for a while in the 1860s!

In terms of international power politics, it would have been a good idea for Britain to take steps to ensure that the Confederacy remained in existence. Immoral, but a good idea.

Read Harry Turtledove's "Southern Victory" series and see if you still feel that way. He had an embittered Union ally with Prussia / Germany producing a Central Powers victory in his alternative WW1. The USA conquers all of Canada and liberates Ireland in toto from Great Britain. His WW2 has the rump Confederacy turn into Nazi Germany with the former slaves of the South being treated the same way as the Jews were in reality.

Theuniondivvie said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Delahaye too poncey?
It's also a car marque which may confuse things.

What brilliant cars! Like a Morgan re-imagined by Dali.

SeanT

Bittencourt

rpjs said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Carolus_Rex said:

welshowl said:

tpfkar

Re my "2037 EU" question. Indeed. I'm often struck how the USA sat down in 1787 (?) four years after gaining independence and wrote the template that still holds. They spent 1775 -83 being unified in what they were against (King George, no taxation without representation etc) but then sat down pdq to work out what the 13 little states had in common and what they all voted to sign up for. 230 years and counting implies they didn't do a bad job.

Where's the open visionary European equivalent? One of my major distrusts of the EU is my perception that nothing major was ever done by the front door of actually getting the consent of the people (nobody will ever convince me Germans would've voted to swap the DM for the Euro - and they would've been right and saved everyone an awful lot of grief if they'd been given a chance). It's almost as if Brussels is scared witless of the prospect of articulating a full fat, full caffeine federal union (jeez there's enough models out there USA, Canada, Australia, India), hence the constant diet of fudge to limbo.

Re the USA I believe it did get a bit rocky for a while in the 1860s!

In terms of international power politics, it would have been a good idea for Britain to take steps to ensure that the Confederacy remained in existence. Immoral, but a good idea.

Read Harry Turtledove's "Southern Victory" series and see if you still feel that way. He had an embittered Union ally with Prussia / Germany producing a Central Powers victory in his alternative WW1. The USA conquers all of Canada and liberates Ireland in toto from Great Britain. His WW2 has the rump Confederacy turn into Nazi Germany with the former slaves of the South being treated the same way as the Jews were in reality.

Sounds like bollocks to me. Germany didn't like America - the Kaiser had a plan to reinvade. I'd have let him have at it.

MarqueeMark said:

PlatoSaid said:

Something that appears here from time to time is the tale of an American buying London Bridge.

He did. And you can see it today.

"London Bridge is a bridge in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. It was built in the 1830s and formerly spanned the River Thames in London, England. It was dismantled in 1967 and relocated to Arizona. The Arizona bridge is a reinforced concrete structure clad in the original masonry of the 1830s bridge, which was purchased by Robert P. McCulloch from the City of London. McCulloch had exterior granite blocks from the original bridge numbered and transported to America to construct the present bridge in Lake Havasu City, a planned community he established in 1964 on the shore of Lake Havasu. The bridge was completed in 1971 (along with a canal), and links an island in the Colorado River with the main part of Lake Havasu City. The song London Bridge is Falling Down is a nursery rhyme that predates the bridge's original 19th century construction."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Bridge_(Lake_Havasu_City)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMWocVvQW0I

I have been on that bridge, on a birding trip to southern California/Arizona. "Incongruous" is a word that springs to mind....

There is, of course, an urban legend that the Americans thought they were getting Tower Bridge...

SeanT

Farage? (gets coat)

Tim_B said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Bouvier

Too much Marge.

Valois
Simonet
Dassault

I spit on your execrable 3-syllable rule.

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Cameron

Aznavour. - Sounds frenchy, but actually Armenian I belive.

Fournier?
Martineau?

Delishnique

De B'stard

SeanT said:

Delahaye is making all the running.

Josias' Martineau (if you don't want my suggestion) is surely ticking all the boxes? Delahaye surely just a shade too potboiler?

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Diomède

I am always a little amused by Mike's headers that show the LibDems so well-placed and disaster about to befall the Tories. I am also amused by how Europe is now treated as such a central thing in British politics whereas, of course, in the run up to the referendum those suggesting its was were ill-informed or foolish.

Certainly complacency is the Tories' biggest danger at the moment. But just as Mike overly dismissed the importance of Europe in the run up to the referendum, I suspect that, even while Europe is clearly a key issue and the issue which will most preoccupy British political life until the deal is done, he is now overstating it in relation to its importance to strife within the current Tory party. Sure, there are differences, but I suspect there is more that binds those within the party who are on opposing sides of the Brexit debate than there is that divides them.

SeanT said:

Delahaye is making all the running.

They were great looking cars -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delahaye

isam said:

No, Farage is saying - in his hyperbolic way - that NZ and Oz will be very keen to do a trade deal once we are outside the EU. And he's right, of course, they will. There's no reason they won't.

Plenty of Leavers have said daft things (as have europhiles). But the idea most Leavers are blazered imperialists is just a bizarre caricature which only exists in the minds of crazed, drooling Remainers like williamglenn

But it's accurate in the case of Nigel Farage and others who give major importance to irrelevancies such as trade relations with Australia and New Zealand.

Why does Farage pick out those two countries? Total British-Australian trade is about 60% of trade with India, two-thirds of trade with South Korea, and about the same as trade with Singapore. As for British-NZ trade, it's less than Britain's trade with Pakistan.

Farage mentions Australia and New Zealand because they're honky.

Seanetta

Tim_B said:

Regarding hard vs soft brexit, as someone viewing this from afar it seems to me that what the Leavers want from brexit is less important than understanding what the EU is prepared to give, as the UK is the supplicant on this.

The second largest economy in the EU is leaving, there are eurozone problems, the immigration crisis and so on.

It is surely not in the EU interest to give the UK too good a deal, as then others will want out too. The deal also has to be approved by all 27 countries (plus Wallonia)?

On the other hand, the EU won't want to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Presumably the UK has to open negotiations and show its hand first.

The EU side just isn't interested and is not going to invest any political goodwill into negotiations with the UK. It has lots of problems of its own; it needs Brexit like a hole in the head; it doesn't owe the UK anything. They are not even out particularly to punish the UK, I believe. I also don't think they are interested in temporary arrangements that will drag out the uncertainty. In any case we will need to move onto WTO negotiations, which is a hornet's nest of its own, and third parties will want to understand our relationship with the EU, as well as our WTO schedules, before moving onto any bilateral deals.

Given that context, the UK has two basic Brexit choices. Our government is completely in denial and refuses to face up to that choice. The choices are either minimum change or minimum deal. It's not completely binary - ie no change or no deal - there are things we can negotiate at the margins. But those are the starting points.

I have struggled with that choice, personally, since before June last year. I don't think "minimum change" will work. Why go for something that is basically the same as the membership option that we rejected in the referendum, but is clearly worse than membership in terms of sovereignty and our decision making? On the other hand "minimum deal" is destructive.

We can't gainsay the referendum result, so we will have to go for one of those suboptimal options. Pistol to my head, I think it has to be "minimum change" We need a national debate on our destination, but it doesn't look like we're going to get one.

foxinsoxuk said:

MaxPB said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

MarqueeMark said:

williamglenn said:

Sadly many Brexiteers also expect our former colonies to come begging - "I always knew you'd come back to us sir..." - so they can get their Sally Field moment - "You like us! You really like us!"

Many, huh?

In which case, naming one thousand should be easy.

Or just one. Name a single person who has expressed that view - a person who is not solely inhabiting your mind.

But to be fair, you are providing endless point'n'laugh entertainment on a very grey day.

Farage

" the Prime Ministers of Australia and New Zealand said they’re in a race for who could be the first country to make a trade deal with Britain outside the European Union."

But does Farage use the word "begging". Goes he say our old colonies will be BEGGING us for a trade deal, because they are so glad we are free?

No, Farage is saying - in his hyperbolic way - that NZ and Oz will be very keen to do a trade deal once we are outside the EU. And he's right, of course, they will. There's no reason they won't.

Plenty of Leavers have said daft things (as have europhiles). But the idea most Leavers are blazered imperialists is just a bizarre caricature which only exists in the minds of crazed, drooling Remainers like williamglenn

Imagine all that cheap Australian Iron ore and coal, that wheat and wool.

Just what we need...

The iron ore, wool and wheat would be extremely welcome.

Very handy for our thriving steel and textile industries.

You jest, but both of those industries would thrive post Brexit with cheap raw input.

Dubonnet, which is also a rather tasty tipple.

welshowl said:

williamglenn said:

welshowl said:

WG

Give us an ideal vision of the EU in 2037.

What's it look like?

My wish list would include things like:

- An evolution of democratic accountability of the Commission in a way that deals with some of the legitimate criticisms. (And an end to absurdities like the travelling parliament). This could possibly be achieved as part of another (and final) attempt at a constitutional treaty.
- An expansion of the Eurozone.
- A level of economic development in the former Communist countries that is closer to the west, thereby removing migration pressure.
- A privileged partnership with Russia including a comprehensive trade agreement and visa-free travel.

OK but a bit fudgy?

I want to be able at the least to put X's in boxes and fire people clearly.

Does a leader in territory "a" have the right to invite people from outside in and insist they live in territory "b"? - No. Common rules on acquiring citizenship/residency to prevent immigration arbitrage. (And transition rules for new members are mandatory and cannot be waived by governments like New Labour.)

Who's taxing whom? - National states.

How do I fire them? - General elections + eventual election of Commission President.

Is there one army? - No but there is an integrated command structure.

One treasury? - No, many treasuries.

One lingua franca? - To the extent that this is needed it happens organically, and already is - English.

See above.

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Diomède

Sounds like a mineral (though isn't it an island?)

@seanT

Martinez
Garnier
Fontaine

I once wanted a character for an (unpublished) young adult book. I came up with the perfect name, one that encapsulated the character's attributes perfectly.

I started writing, then googled the name. First hit was an American striptease artist.

I changed the name.

JosiasJessop said:

I once wanted a character for an (unpublished) young adult book. I came up with the perfect name, one that encapsulated the character's attributes perfectly.

I started writing, then googled the name. First hit was an American striptease artist.

I changed the name.

Not Teresa May again?

david_herdson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Diomède

Sounds like a mineral (though isn't it an island?)

Island in Alaska sans accent grave.

Bernard Diomède was a Liverpool footballer who played for France.

d'Arbois? Delamorcey? Got to go for a bit but I made a list of surnames for my WIP a while back, will check it.

Why don't we have things like an accent aigu on our letters? It makes the French language seem even more elegant and classy.

Please note this shouldn't be mistaken as a pro French comment by me.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Why don't we have things like an accent aigu on our letters? It makes the French language seem even more elegant and classy.

Please note this shouldn't be mistaken as a pro French comment by me.

If it looks like a canard, quacks like a canard...

MTimT said:

@ TimB

Now the 'Skins are out, I find myself actually rooting for the 'Boys this post-season. The new kids vs Brady.

Come on in - the water's fine

The only suspense for the Skins is what to do about Kirk Cousins - he's going to get paid.

MaxPB said:

foxinsoxuk said:

MaxPB said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

MarqueeMark said:

williamglenn said:

Sadly many Brexiteers also expect our former colonies to come begging - "I always knew you'd come back to us sir..." - so they can get their Sally Field moment - "You like us! You really like us!"

Many, huh?

In which case, naming one thousand should be easy.

Or just one. Name a single person who has expressed that view - a person who is not solely inhabiting your mind.

But to be fair, you are providing endless point'n'laugh entertainment on a very grey day.

Farage

" the Prime Ministers of Australia and New Zealand said they’re in a race for who could be the first country to make a trade deal with Britain outside the European Union."

But does Farage use the word "begging". Goes he say our old colonies will be BEGGING us for a trade deal, because they are so glad we are free?

No, Farage is saying - in his hyperbolic way - that NZ and Oz will be very keen to do a trade deal once we are outside the EU. And he's right, of course, they will. There's no reason they won't.

Plenty of Leavers have said daft things (as have europhiles). But the idea most Leavers are blazered imperialists is just a bizarre caricature which only exists in the minds of crazed, drooling Remainers like williamglenn

Imagine all that cheap Australian Iron ore and coal, that wheat and wool.

Just what we need...

The iron ore, wool and wheat would be extremely welcome.

Very handy for our thriving steel and textile industries.

You jest, but both of those industries would thrive post Brexit with cheap raw input.

What is the current import tarrif on Australian Iron ore?

MaxPB said:

Scott_P said:

MaxPB said:

I'm not worried. Most Tories are patriots

True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England

Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.

Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Why don't we have things like an accent aigu on our letters? It makes the French language seem even more elegant and classy.

Please note this shouldn't be mistaken as a pro French comment by me.

Because I can't find accents on my keyboard.

Mr. T, Brennes, Valsir, Salais, d'Arbois, Genais, Mirgnac and, perhaps best for your purposes, Orchalons.

Sean_F said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Champignon.

Salazar. Balthazar. Fournier. Lesauvage. Desrochers.

MaxPB said:

MrsB said:

MaxPB said:

Scott_P said:

MaxPB said:

I'm not worried. Most Tories are patriots

True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England

Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.

Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?

No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.

The British state is not in favour of Brexit.

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

MrsB said:

MaxPB said:

Scott_P said:

MaxPB said:

I'm not worried. Most Tories are patriots

True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England

Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.

Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?

No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.

The British state is not in favour of Brexit.

It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.

foxinsoxuk said:

MaxPB said:

foxinsoxuk said:

MaxPB said:

foxinsoxuk said:

SeanT said:

Jonathan said:

MarqueeMark said:

williamglenn said:

Sadly many Brexiteers also expect our former colonies to come begging - "I always knew you'd come back to us sir..." - so they can get their Sally Field moment - "You like us! You really like us!"

Many, huh?

In which case, naming one thousand should be easy.

Or just one. Name a single person who has expressed that view - a person who is not solely inhabiting your mind.

But to be fair, you are providing endless point'n'laugh entertainment on a very grey day.

Farage

" the Prime Ministers of Australia and New Zealand said they’re in a race for who could be the first country to make a trade deal with Britain outside the European Union."

But does Farage use the word "begging". Goes he say our old colonies will be BEGGING us for a trade deal, because they are so glad we are free?

No, Farage is saying - in his hyperbolic way - that NZ and Oz will be very keen to do a trade deal once we are outside the EU. And he's right, of course, they will. There's no reason they won't.

Plenty of Leavers have said daft things (as have europhiles). But the idea most Leavers are blazered imperialists is just a bizarre caricature which only exists in the minds of crazed, drooling Remainers like williamglenn

Imagine all that cheap Australian Iron ore and coal, that wheat and wool.

Just what we need...

The iron ore, wool and wheat would be extremely welcome.

Very handy for our thriving steel and textile industries.

You jest, but both of those industries would thrive post Brexit with cheap raw input.

What is the current import tarrif on Australian Iron ore?

Is the tarrif on iron ore from Australia 95 euro per 1000kg less than for wheat?

BBC's new comedy... views?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQOecUSU5Rg#action=share

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

MrsB said:

MaxPB said:

Scott_P said:

MaxPB said:

I'm not worried. Most Tories are patriots

True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England

Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.

Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?

No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.

The British state is not in favour of Brexit.

It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.

Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.

MrsB said:

Sean_F said:

SeanT said:

HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R

Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.

Champignon.

Salazar. Balthazar. Fournier. Lesauvage. Desrochers.

De Mellow

SouthamObserver said:

MaxPB said:

williamglenn said:

MaxPB said:

MrsB said:

MaxPB said:

Scott_P said:

MaxPB said:

I'm not worried. Most Tories are patriots

True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England

Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.

Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?

No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.

The British state is not in favour of Brexit.

It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.

Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.

Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.