True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad. Have a sit down and think through what you have been saying today. If people in the BBC, the judiciary and other areas of public life do not do as the state requires them to do then they should be purged. That is not how it works in a democracy.
On topic: With regard to Remain-supporting Tory voters, do we have any idea what proportion of them are really up in arms about the Leave vote, as distinct from those who think it was the wrong decision but have already accepted it and moved on?
The voter churn figures from that most recent YouGov poll suggested that, six months after the referendum, the proportion of the total 2015 Lib Dem vote that had defected to the Conservatives was three times *higher* than that moving in the opposite direction (albeit that the exchange would still favour the yellows slightly in terms of absolute numbers, because the total available pool of Tory voters is about four-and-a-half times larger than theirs.) My best guess as to the cause of this would be that, as a certain number of centrist Tory voters with fond memories of the Coalition and/or very strong Remain tendencies have been attracted to the Liberal Democrats, almost as many of the Lib Dems' surviving soft centre-right voters from 2015 have jumped ship. because of Farron's social democratic positioning and, in some cases, because they actually voted Leave and want it to happen (or, at the very least, think that trying to campaign foursquare against the referendum outcome is anti-democratic and altogether rather a bad idea.)
I continue to believe that, whilst the EU referendum is, of course, very important - and there are a lot of people on both sides of the divide for whom this is a visceral issue - this particular constitutional question is not as divisive for the population as a whole as is often made out (and certainly not when compared to the Nationalist/Unionist split in Scotland.) Moreover, there are other very good reasons why existing Conservative voters might wish to stick with Mrs May, regardless of their views on Europe.
Brexit isn't everything. If it were, we would be seeing a massive flow of Remain support to the Liberal Democrats, of Leave voters to the Conservatives and Ukip, and a very steep, heavy decline in Labour support, probably on the scale of the hammering inflicted on the Lib Dems in 2015. The fact, therefore, that the Westminster VI figures have not fluctuated wildly since Theresa May became Prime Minister is most instructive.
Off topic I find it extraordinary that the news item about the Israeli soldier is top three on all UK news outlets. Struggling to think which other country's domestic news would be given so much prominence.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad. Have a sit down and think through what you have been saying today. If people in the BBC, the judiciary and other areas of public life do not do as the state requires them to do then they should be purged. That is not how it works in a democracy.
I agree. Having said that you might also look at your own posts.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad..
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad. Have a sit down and think through what you have been saying today. If people in the BBC, the judiciary and other areas of public life do not do as the state requires them to do then they should be purged. That is not how it works in a democracy.
Not as the state requires them, as the British people require them. They are setting themselves against the will of the British people. For that they need to be purged and replaced. Right now we need absolute loyalty, not someone who is going to run off to Brussels and serve two masters. Not all remainers are in that camp, I don't for one minute believe that you are or many remain posters on here including the likes of Mr Meeks. We all have a duty to make Brexit work, and that goes doubly for those in positions of power and influence. There can be no question of their loyalty or whether they have gone native in Brussels. Absolute loyalty, nothing less.
I continue to believe that, whilst the EU referendum is, of course, very important - and there are a lot of people on both sides of the divide for whom this is a visceral issue - this particular constitutional question is not as divisive for the population as a whole as is often made out (and certainly not when compared to the Nationalist/Unionist split in Scotland.)
I think it's precisely because it's not a visceral issue for most people that it has the potential to become politically toxic when the really difficult decisions need to be made. That's when people will pay attention and say that actually this isn't quite what they asked for. At the moment they still think that there are some experts somewhere who can magic away all the tough implications of the referendum result.
I think it's precisely because it's not a visceral issue for most people that it has the potential to become politically toxic when the really difficult decisions need to be made. That's when people will pay attention and say that actually this isn't quite what they asked for. An the moment they still think that there are some experts somewhere who can magic away all the tough implications of the referendum result.
(my emphasis)
Sounds a lot like your comments, convinced that we will stay in the EU after all
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad. Have a sit down and think through what you have been saying today. If people in the BBC, the judiciary and other areas of public life do not do as the state requires them to do then they should be purged. That is not how it works in a democracy.
Not as the state requires them, as the British people require them. They are setting themselves against the will of the British people. For that they need to be purged and replaced. Right now we need absolute loyalty, not someone who is going to run off to Brussels and serve two masters. Not all remainers are in that camp, I don't for one minute believe that you are or many remain posters on here including the likes of Mr Meeks. We all have a duty to make Brexit work, and that goes doubly for those in positions of power and influence. There can be no question of their loyalty or whether they have gone native in Brussels. Absolute loyalty, nothing less.
Max I see you're already getting a touch of Brit expat-itis; more patriotic than the people who actually live here.
Relax. We've got it covered here. We're all cool about it.
Listening to Mark Stone of Sky saying that Sir Tim Barrow is very familiar with Brussels and the key issue is that he is a foreign office man through and through. Earlier Stone was giving the impression that Rogers was irreplaceable and a devastating blow to HMG but No 10's quick response seems to have killed the story
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, Iscorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad. Have a sit down and think through what you have been saying today. If people in the BBC, the judiciary and other areas of public life do not do as the state requires them to do then they should be purged. That is not how it works in a democracy.
Not as the state requires them, as the British people require them. They are setting themselves against the will of the British people. For that they need to be purged and replaced. Right now we need absolute loyalty, not someone who is going to run off to Brussels and serve two masters. Not all remainers are in that camp, I don't for one minute believe that you are or many remain posters on here including the likes of Mr Meeks. We all have a duty to make Brexit work, and that goes doubly for those in positions of power and influence. There can be no question of their loyalty or whether they have gone native in Brussels. Absolute loyalty, nothing less.
Making Brexit work comes in many shapes and forms. Brexit will not work if civil servants do not feel they are able to give ministers robust advice that they sometimes will not want to hear. It will not work if uncomfortable truths pertaining to it are not reported. It will not work if the judiciary is no longer free to interpret the law as it sees fit. It will not work if the government does not have a coherent, credible plan to implement it. And it will absolutely not work at all if it is couched in the language of "duty to the state", "absolute loyalty", "two masters" and "purge".
Max I see you're already getting a touch of Brit expat-itis; more patriotic than the people who actually live here.
Relax. We've got it covered here. We're all cool about it.
I don't leave until Saturday! Got a few last minute things to sort out and then we're off to Fiji anyway. I don't start until the middle of February but I'll be living in Zurich by the end of Jan when we come back from Fiji. Possibly (hopefully) a wedding to plan after that as well. I think it's going to be a busy year, 2017.
The government needs to give a clear signal to the 16 million who voted to Remain that they are nowt but filthy traitors & deserve all the sh1t that they get. A Royal Pardon for Thomas Mair would be a good start. But Peebie Leavers don't have the bottle for that, do they?
Max I see you're already getting a touch of Brit expat-itis; more patriotic than the people who actually live here.
Relax. We've got it covered here. We're all cool about it.
I don't leave until Saturday! Got a few last minute things to sort out and then we're off to Fiji anyway. I don't start until the middle of February but I'll be living in Zurich by the end of Jan when we come back from Fiji. Possibly (hopefully) a wedding to plan after that as well. I think it's going to be a busy year, 2017.
Sounds like it is going to be an amazing 2017 for you; all the best with it.
Listening to Mark Stone of Sky saying that Sir Tim Barrow is very familiar with Brussels and the key issue is that he is a foreign office man through and through. Earlier Stone was giving the impression that Rogers was irreplaceable and a devastating blow to HMG but No 10's quick response seems to have killed the story
His career appears less eurocentric than Rogers who had a string of arch-europhile bosses.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
Purge the wreckers, kulaks and cosmopolitans! All power to the Brexit Soviets.
Rightwingers who want to purge pinkos at the BBC, in the Church of England, and in certain places in the Tory party, and who fantasise about abolishing the NHS, shooting leftwing teachers, and putting barbed wire around council estates - they themselves are a bunch of pinkos, if you ask me! Seriously, there is a bit of a Stalinist flavour to their particular collectivism. And never let it be said that the KGB didn't know the meaning of the words "survival" or "offshore".
Maybe the Leavo-Tories and Kippers will learn from the fact that the KGB knew how to rid itself of the CPSU and become more powerful. They were anything but stuck in the past.
Talking of the ~KGB...well let's just say their favourite assets in Britain don't include Jeremy Corbyn, any more than they backed Hillary Clinton.
It's also worth saying that the USSR wasn't the only country where purges took place in the 1930s.
When I attempted to parody the Leave position earlier today and LuckyGuy1983, returning the sarcasm, replied that we now saw things the same way, I realised I should never have engaged with the remain-leave discussion here. I will go back to concentrating on betting-related topics such as the French presidential election. Perhaps occasionally offering a helping hand with developing the "traitors" theory. Because that's where Leave is going, and if you want to run with such a theory you should do it properly and let it all hang out.
Sir Tim Barrow to take over from Rogers. No 10 acted quickly
That was quick - he also has plenty of experience working with the EU as Assistant Director at EU External between 2003 and 2005 then as a representative to the Political and Security Committee and Britain's ambassador to the Western European Union until 2011.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
Speaking of Brussels, where more than one international organisation is headquartered, are you in favour of invoking NATO's article 13 and leaving NATO?
Hopefully there'd be no legal case on that one. Britain's NATO membership was never decided by parliament. Initiated by executive prerogative, it can be ended by executive prerogative.
HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R
Something like Delacourt, but not quite as poncey, but still a bit poncey.
How about Delaval - there is a Seaton Delaval near Newcastle. Also I had a professor at Durham called Charles Vereker. Sounds foreign - orginally Dutch I think. He had aristocracy in the family - said no gentleman began work before 10am.
@Dromedary - a traitor is basically a once friend that now disagrees with you. The degree of traitorism just involves the amount of trust and agreement you once had, and quite how different your ex-friends position now is, but most importantly how important you think the matter at hand is.
It's hard to be that traitorous on Europe because we're all roughly on the fence - everyone sees good things and bad.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
Speaking of Brussels, where more than one international organisation is headquartered, are you in favour of invoking NATO's article 13 and leaving NATO?
Hopefully there'd be no legal case on that one. Britain's NATO membership was never decided by parliament. Initiated by executive prerogative, it can be ended by executive prerogative.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
Speaking of Brussels, where more than one international organisation is headquartered, are you in favour of invoking NATO's article 13 and leaving NATO?
Hopefully there'd be no legal case on that one. Britain's NATO membership was never decided by parliament. Initiated by executive prerogative, it can be ended by executive prerogative.
Listening to Mark Stone of Sky saying that Sir Tim Barrow is very familiar with Brussels and the key issue is that he is a foreign office man through and through. Earlier Stone was giving the impression that Rogers was irreplaceable and a devastating blow to HMG but No 10's quick response seems to have killed the story
His career appears less eurocentric than Rogers who had a string of arch-europhile bosses.
Reading Rogers history from PPS to Ken Clarke to date it is clear that he was in favour of remaining in the EU and seemed to be on a damage limitation exercise with David Cameron to get the poorest deal he could get away with.
The number of compliments he has received from people like Clegg, Mandelson, Osborne and virtually the entire Commission endorses that viewpoint
However, for a civil servant to go rogue with his corruscating e mail to staff tells you all you want to know about him and how unsuitable he was to negotiate the UK's position to leave the EU
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
Speaking of Brussels, where more than one international organisation is headquartered, are you in favour of invoking NATO's article 13 and leaving NATO?
Hopefully there'd be no legal case on that one. Britain's NATO membership was never decided by parliament. Initiated by executive prerogative, it can be ended by executive prerogative.
Are people really agitating to leave NATO?
No, that would require intellectual coherence.
Leaving the EU but remaining in NATO is inconsistent?
No, Farage is saying - in his hyperbolic way - that NZ and Oz will be very keen to do a trade deal once we are outside the EU. And he's right, of course, they will. There's no reason they won't.
Plenty of Leavers have said daft things (as have europhiles). But the idea most Leavers are blazered imperialists is just a bizarre caricature which only exists in the minds of crazed, drooling Remainers like williamglenn
But it's accurate in the case of Nigel Farage and others who give major importance to irrelevancies such as trade relations with Australia and New Zealand.
Why does Farage pick out those two countries? Total British-Australian trade is about 60% of trade with India, two-thirds of trade with South Korea, and about the same as trade with Singapore. As for British-NZ trade, it's less than Britain's trade with Pakistan.
Farage mentions Australia and New Zealand because they're honky.
The government needs to give a clear signal to the 16 million who voted to Remain that they are nowt but filthy traitors & deserve all the sh1t that they get. A Royal Pardon for Thomas Mair would be a good start. But Peebie Leavers don't have the bottle for that, do they?
“The Foreign Office is reported to be in despair over Boris Johnson: he is, apparently, not reading his briefs, not providing clear guidance for his officials, alienating other EU foreign ministers whose goodwill we will need to a successful negotiated exit, and failing to hammer out any framework for Britain’s future foreign policy towards Europe.”
I think that Boris is facing the chop in the short to medium term. I also think that the resignation by the envoy to the EU and his comments show their is a vacuum at the centre of this useless government. I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
Interesting to note BREXIT is now starting to hit retailers who such as M & S and NEXT whose share prices have dropped markedly in response to their business assesments. Indeed retailers who import from abroad and have transportation costs are getting a double whammy from BREXIT and so will consumers as the higher costs from overseas suppliers eat into margins and the higher cost of fuel priced in dollars also hits the bottom line.
“The Foreign Office is reported to be in despair over Boris Johnson: he is, apparently, not reading his briefs, not providing clear guidance for his officials, alienating other EU foreign ministers whose goodwill we will need to a successful negotiated exit, and failing to hammer out any framework for Britain’s future foreign policy towards Europe.”
The speed No10 have replaced Rogers does make you think that it was No 10 who had planned his resignation/sacking and they had his successor ready to go
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
The speed No10 have replaced Rogers does make you think that it was No 10 who had planned his resignation/sacking and they had his successor ready to go
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
Yeah, the meme that nothing is being done/planned is a stupid one.
Sadly many Brexiteers also expect our former colonies to come begging - "I always knew you'd come back to us sir..." - so they can get their Sally Field moment - "You like us! You really like us!"
Many, huh?
In which case, naming one thousand should be easy.
Or just one. Name a single person who has expressed that view - a person who is not solely inhabiting your mind.
But to be fair, you are providing endless point'n'laugh entertainment on a very grey day.
And right on cue:
So what’s the insider view on what’s actually happening in Government?
Liam Fox believes in reviving the “Anglosphere” – expecting the US, Australia and Canada to offer the UK whatever we want to ask for. He and others also hoped that the rest of the Commonwealth would welcome Britain back with open arms, though the recent trade visit to India offered little encouragement for them.
Sadly many Brexiteers also expect our former colonies to come begging - "I always knew you'd come back to us sir..." - so they can get their Sally Field moment - "You like us! You really like us!"
Many, huh?
In which case, naming one thousand should be easy.
Or just one. Name a single person who has expressed that view - a person who is not solely inhabiting your mind.
But to be fair, you are providing endless point'n'laugh entertainment on a very grey day.
And right on cue:
So what’s the insider view on what’s actually happening in Government?
Liam Fox believes in reviving the “Anglosphere” – expecting the US, Australia and Canada to offer the UK whatever we want to ask for. He and others also hoped that the rest of the Commonwealth would welcome Britain back with open arms, though the recent trade visit to India offered little encouragement for them.
The speed No10 have replaced Rogers does make you think that it was No 10 who had planned his resignation/sacking and they had his successor ready to go
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
Yeah, the meme that nothing is being done/planned is a stupid one.
Tis indeed stupid, however there is a certain amount of supporting confirmation that stupidity is indeed the case.
Sadly many Brexiteers also expect our former colonies to come begging - "I always knew you'd come back to us sir..." - so they can get their Sally Field moment - "You like us! You really like us!"
Many, huh?
In which case, naming one thousand should be easy.
Or just one. Name a single person who has expressed that view - a person who is not solely inhabiting your mind.
But to be fair, you are providing endless point'n'laugh entertainment on a very grey day.
And right on cue:
So what’s the insider view on what’s actually happening in Government?
Liam Fox believes in reviving the “Anglosphere” – expecting the US, Australia and Canada to offer the UK whatever we want to ask for. He and others also hoped that the rest of the Commonwealth would welcome Britain back with open arms, though the recent trade visit to India offered little encouragement for them.
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea. Admittedly it is at least an idea, even if a kooky one. I agree that the present government has absolutely no clue and is showing absolutely no leadership.
“The Foreign Office is reported to be in despair over Boris Johnson: he is, apparently, not reading his briefs, not providing clear guidance for his officials, alienating other EU foreign ministers whose goodwill we will need to a successful negotiated exit, and failing to hammer out any framework for Britain’s future foreign policy towards Europe.”
I think that Boris is facing the chop in the short to medium term. I also think that the resignation by the envoy to the EU and his comments show their is a vacuum at the centre of this useless government. I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
Interesting to note BREXIT is now starting to hit retailers who such as M & S and NEXT whose share prices have dropped markedly in response to their business assesments. Indeed retailers who import from abroad and have transportation costs are getting a double whammy from BREXIT and so will consumers as the higher costs from overseas suppliers eat into margins and the higher cost of fuel priced in dollars also hits the bottom line.
All doom and gloom is not consistent with the economy's performance and is a sign that those in the remain cap actively want the economy to fail.
As far as M & S and Next are concerned it has nothing to do with Brexit but tired retailer not adapted to the huge change taking place on the High Street and the effects of the internet on the retail proposition
I hope it will not come about but I could see both those brands disappearing from the High Street in the next few years
I continue to believe that, whilst the EU referendum is, of course, very important - and there are a lot of people on both sides of the divide for whom this is a visceral issue - this particular constitutional question is not as divisive for the population as a whole as is often made out (and certainly not when compared to the Nationalist/Unionist split in Scotland.)
I think it's precisely because it's not a visceral issue for most people that it has the potential to become politically toxic when the really difficult decisions need to be made. That's when people will pay attention and say that actually this isn't quite what they asked for. At the moment they still think that there are some experts somewhere who can magic away all the tough implications of the referendum result.
Anything's possible, of course, but - with the condition of demoralisation, disarray and electoral toxicity to which the Labour Party has now been reduced - I think it's going to take a pretty savage economic downturn to seriously imperil the Tories' position come the next election. The next most serious threat after that is of ructions on the Tory Right, and a bleed of voters back to Ukip, if Brexit is seen to be going too soft.
In terms of any further flows of popular sentiment toward or away from the EU during the Brexit process, we should not be tempted to assume that it will be a simple case of buyers' remorse amongst soft Leave voters if and when the going gets tough. If the other side is not seen to be reasonable then traditional British bloody-mindedness and grievance (real or imagined) is also likely to play a significant role. Indeed, it is entirely possible that the process of Brexit could lose as many, or more, sympathisers for the pro-EU cause as it gains.
Again, look at what happened in Scotland: the attempt immediately after the Leave vote to create a new wave of enthusiasm for independence (all the rhetoric about being "dragged out of Europe against our will," etc, etc,) soon fizzled out, because it turned out there were just as many pro-independence voters who disliked the EU much more than the UK, as there were pro-Union voters willing to switch to backing independence because of their commitment to the EU. A widespread assumption that a particular event, or series of events, can only lead to a movement of public opinion in one direction is not always borne out in reality.
I continue to believe that, whilst the EU referendum is, of course, very important - and there are a lot of people on both sides of the divide for whom this is a visceral issue - this particular constitutional question is not as divisive for the population as a whole as is often made out (and certainly not when compared to the Nationalist/Unionist split in Scotland.)
I think it's precisely because it's not a visceral issue for most people that it has the potential to become politically toxic when the really difficult decisions need to be made. That's when people will pay attention and say that actually this isn't quite what they asked for. At the moment they still think that there are some experts somewhere who can magic away all the tough implications of the referendum result.
Anything's possible, of course, but - with the condition of demoralisation, disarray and electoral toxicity to which the Labour Party has now been reduced - I think it's going to take a pretty savage economic downturn to seriously imperil the Tories' position come the next election. The next most serious threat after that is of ructions on the Tory Right, and a bleed of voters back to Ukip, if Brexit is seen to be going too soft.
In terms of any further flows of popular sentiment toward or away from the EU during the Brexit process, we should not be tempted to assume that it will be a simple case of buyers' remorse amongst soft Leave voters if and when the going gets tough. If the other side is not seen to be reasonable then traditional British bloody-mindedness and grievance (real or imagined) is also likely to play a significant role. Indeed, it is entirely possible that the process of Brexit could lose as many, or more, sympathisers for the pro-EU cause as it gains.
Again, look at what happened in Scotland: the attempt immediately after the Leave vote to create a new wave of enthusiasm for independence (all the rhetoric about being "dragged out of Europe against our will," etc, etc,) soon fizzled out, because it turned out there were just as many pro-independence voters who disliked the EU much more than the UK, as there were pro-Union voters willing to switch to backing independence because of their commitment to the EU. A widespread assumption that a particular event, or series of events, can only lead to a movement of public opinion in one direction is not always borne out in reality.
“The Foreign Office is reported to be in despair over Boris Johnson: he is, apparently, not reading his briefs, not providing clear guidance for his officials, alienating other EU foreign ministers whose goodwill we will need to a successful negotiated exit, and failing to hammer out any framework for Britain’s future foreign policy towards Europe.”
I think that Boris is facing the chop in the short to medium term. I also think that the resignation by the envoy to the EU and his comments show their is a vacuum at the centre of this useless government. I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
Interesting to note BREXIT is now starting to hit retailers who such as M & S and NEXT whose share prices have dropped markedly in response to their business assesments. Indeed retailers who import from abroad and have transportation costs are getting a double whammy from BREXIT and so will consumers as the higher costs from overseas suppliers eat into margins and the higher cost of fuel priced in dollars also hits the bottom line.
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
With the impressively quick replacement of Sir Ivan, it is clear the government had frozen him out of the process some time ago and have chosen their successor as well beforehand. I expect the "senior team" he referred to have also been frozen out and will also be purged.
On the one side we have an EUphile who desperately tried to water down Dave's deal saying the government are muddled, on the other side we have the government saying he jumped before he was pushed and others privately saying they think he'd gone native and wasn't to be trusted. Now we have the government replacing him with a hard headed pragmatist who has previously gone up against Putin during a time when our government was instrumental in pushing for harsh sanctions on Russia.
I know which story has more credibility. Just another desperate remainer desperately serving his true masters in Brussels just as he did when Dave tried to renegotiate our membership. Good riddance.
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
The problem for the retailers is the lag time. This is just the start of what is going to hit the UK high street. Retailers buy months in advance and so you don't see the price rises for a period of time after an economic shock. The depreciation of sterling is an economic shock, the beneficial effects in terms of manufacturer competitiveness will not outweigh the detrimental economic effects of higher import costs i.e. fuel, raw materials and the like. So, this hoping everything will turn out alright by BREXIT supporters is misguided, indeed it is delusional.
My hope for the UK is Corbyn gets turfed out and Labour get a sensible leader to replace him. Even better would be a Labour /LD coalition that stops this BREXIT madness before real long-term trouble hits the economy.
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
The vote was for Brexit which will happen, the next general election will only be about the terms of the eventual deal, negotiations have not even begun as yet. The economy is still doing reasonably well overall but the vote was to regain control over laws and UK borders even if there is a little short-term pain, buying more British products would also help reduce that. The fortunes of Next and M & S have next to nothing to do with Brexit but instead are due to greater competition from online retailers and the likes of H & M and Zavvi
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
In election year ?
might be a bit stupid - like all those "experts" who ridiculed his candidacy and sucked up to Hilary
In any event if Merkel gets reelected she's the who has to do the courting given how badly she has placed herself vis a vis Trump
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
Will you be disappointed if your endless message of despair about Brexit doesn't come to pass?
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
I don't think so. Germany is a big exporter, and Merkel is also likely to be on the receiving end of Trumps trade war, along with China.
We are likely to get collateral damage as unusually are also in positive trade balance with the US, and until we leave the EU will be hit by the same tarrifs.
The problem for the retailers is the lag time. This is just the start of what is going to hit the UK high street. Retailers buy months in advance and so you don't see the price rises for a period of time after an economic shock. The depreciation of sterling is an economic shock, the beneficial effects in terms of manufacturer competitiveness will not outweigh the detrimental economic effects of higher import costs i.e. fuel, raw materials and the like. So, this hoping everything will turn out alright by BREXIT supporters is misguided, indeed it is delusional.
My hope for the UK is Corbyn gets turfed out and Labour get a sensible leader to replace him. Even better would be a Labour /LD coalition that stops this BREXIT madness before real long-term trouble hits the economy.
My wife has shopped at M & S all her life and she says it is dying on its feet. The idea that everything is Brexit fault is absurd and the demise of the High Street is not Brexit related. It's been going on for years, remember Woolworths
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
You really think Trump is going to be a friend to Merkel
The only reason most people go into M & S is for the food, its ready meals alone probably account for much of its profit, if it just sold clothes it would have gone bust years ago
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
You really think Trump is going to be a friend to Merkel
The speed No10 have replaced Rogers does make you think that it was No 10 who had planned his resignation/sacking and they had his successor ready to go
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
If Theresa May is on top of the Brexit planning, she should delay initiating Article 40 until after May 7th. It is not a long delay but it could make a hell of a difference.
If Le Pen wins on 7th May (and she has a 20% chance according to the betting) then a rapid replanning of Brexit needs to be done. Le Pen could trigger Article 40 for France and we could end up negotiating with a collection of nation states rather than with the EU.
I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
I've always seen the "three circles" idea as the "Britain is the centre of the world" idea.
Stephen Kinnock thinks the three circles is where it's at. It's loony time in this country. Someone should tell him that when the US president calls "Europe" he phones Germany nowadays.
Who has Trump phoned in Europe
Trump's upcoming courting of Merkel will be a symbolic kick in the teeth for the Brexiteers.
You really think Trump is going to be a friend to Merkel
The speed No10 have replaced Rogers does make you think that it was No 10 who had planned his resignation/sacking and they had his successor ready to go
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
If Theresa May is on top of the Brexit planning, she should delay initiating Article 40 until after May 7th. It is not a long delay but it could make a hell of a difference.
If Le Pen wins on 7th May (and she has a 20% chance according to the betting) then a rapid replanning of Brexit needs to be done. Le Pen could trigger Article 40 for France and we could end up negotiating with a collection of nation states rather than with the EU.
Unlikely, but don't see why it should change when we do A50. If the EU ceases to exist before we leave (channeling my inner A E-P here), that's hardly a problem.
Why would Trump want to woo Merkel? She is pro EU and trade blocks, anti Putin and pro immigration ie against the 3 pillars of Trump's campaign
The EU isn't a trade block; she's crucial to the West's relationship with Putin, and she's not as pro-immigration as the caricature suggests. Germany will be deporting large numbers of people in the coming months.
Why would Trump want to woo Merkel? She is pro EU and trade blocks, anti Putin and pro immigration ie against the 3 pillars of Trump's campaign
The EU isn't a trade block; she's crucial to the West's relationship with Putin, and she's not as pro-immigration as the caricature suggests. Germany will be deporting large numbers of people in the coming months.
Is it invent any old crap week or something ?
Try following what's happening in Germany.
Trump is more than capable of sorting out his relationship with Putin without Merkel or her mate Obama who's setting as many bear traps as he can before he leaves office.
Trump is more than capable of sorting out his relationship with Putin without Merkel or her mate Obama who's setting as many bear traps as he can before he leaves office.
The EU's economy is far more important to Russia than the US's. Trump can't deliver much of what Putin really wants without cooperation from Europe, and for that he needs Merkel on side.
I do follow what's happening in Germany, and my sense is that Merkel is preparing for some major multilateral diplomacy.
The speed No10 have replaced Rogers does make you think that it was No 10 who had planned his resignation/sacking and they had his successor ready to go
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
If Theresa May is on top of the Brexit planning, she should delay initiating Article 40 until after May 7th. It is not a long delay but it could make a hell of a difference.
If Le Pen wins on 7th May (and she has a 20% chance according to the betting) then a rapid replanning of Brexit needs to be done. Le Pen could trigger Article 40 for France and we could end up negotiating with a collection of nation states rather than with the EU.
Unlikely, but don't see why it should change when we do A50. If the EU ceases to exist before we leave (channeling my inner A E-P here), that's hardly a problem.
I think it is as likely as Trump winning. She is not as right wing economically as Fillon and has appeal across the left right spectrum. She is a change maker unlike Fillon. Her election is unlikely but quite possible and should be planned for.
If it happens, it is an opportunity for the UK to partner with France in the Article 40 negotiations. We wouldn't be prevented from discussing our joint interests with France before jointly triggering Article 40. Best wait and get our canards in a row.
The EU is a trade block of free flowing goods, services and people which was why Trump opposed Brexit. Merkel was the primary cause of the large inflow of refugees from Syria and N Africa into the EU even if she dilutes it a little in the run-up to the election and Putin could not care less what Merkel thinks
Trump is more than capable of sorting out his relationship with Putin without Merkel or her mate Obama who's setting as many bear traps as he can before he leaves office.
The EU's economy is far more important to Russia than the US's. Trump can't deliver much of what Putin really wants without cooperation from Europe, and for that he needs Merkel on side.
Trump is more than capable of sorting out his relationship with Putin without Merkel or her mate Obama who's setting as many bear traps as he can before he leaves office.
The EU's economy is far more important to Russia than the US's. Trump can't deliver much of what Putin really wants without cooperation from Europe, and for that he needs Merkel on side.
bollocks
if Putin wants something he'll just roll some tank divisions into the Ukraine and make Merkel change her underwear. Then he'll get his snitch Gerhard Schroeder to say why Merkel started it all.
Merkel has nothing to pressurise Putin, she's already played Obama's trade war card
Why would Trump want to woo Merkel? She is pro EU and trade blocks, anti Putin and pro immigration ie against the 3 pillars of Trump's campaign
The EU isn't a trade block; she's crucial to the West's relationship with Putin, and she's not as pro-immigration as the caricature suggests. Germany will be deporting large numbers of people in the coming months.
Where - she couldn't even deport the Berlin terrorist
Trump sees Merkel as another Obama - and his best buddy Nigel wants to see the EU fail
@SeanT "Kinnersley": And your readers are expected to get the usual pronounced M in the middle? What a cruel man you are!
You what? Is there some problem with it? Does it look odd?
I've been googling names and testing syllables for five hours straight and my brain has turned to mush
Originally you said: "HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R"
Well, Kinnersley has three syllables. But it doesn't sound at all French (at least to me), and it certainly begins with a K !
Why would Trump want to woo Merkel? She is pro EU and trade blocks, anti Putin and pro immigration ie against the 3 pillars of Trump's campaign
The EU isn't a trade block; she's crucial to the West's relationship with Putin, and she's not as pro-immigration as the caricature suggests. Germany will be deporting large numbers of people in the coming months.
Where - she couldn't even deport the Berlin terrorist
Trump sees Merkel as another Obama - and his best buddy Nigel wants to see the EU fail
Merkel has recently struck a deal to deport large numbers (40 000) of Afghans back to Afghanistan:
@SeanT Well yes sorry again, I shouldn't toy with the creative process, but of course that's why I did it. Interesting that you earlier pointed out the need to be able to imagine the pronunciation. I'm still not sure how to pronounce 'Maturin' (from Patrick O'Brian's great series) and I do mind a little, and somehow I think that's been a little niggle for ages. However I got past it and have read the series three times, and some of the books many more.
True, which is why many of us opposed the xenophobia of Brexit and Farage's Little England
Yes, you are a patriot, but not for this country. You serve a differnt master. That much is clear.
Max, I'm getting a bit worried about you. You appear to be turning into some sort of crypto-fascist. Have you become best mates with Arron Banks or something?
No, I just believe that all British citizens have a duty to the state, especially in tough times. Those who do not think so set themselves against this country and deserve ridicule and scorn.
The British state is not in favour of Brexit.
It absolutely is, and Sir Ivan getting shat on from a great height today proves it. The purge of the remainers has begun, they've proved they can't be trusted. Like you they serve a different master.
Translation - people that do not agree with Max are traitors.
Not at all, just that those who set themselves against the will of the British people and are unwilling to do their duty to the state or would rather serve an outside master like Brussels. They should be purged from the civil service, the BBC and other walks of public influence.
I fear that Brexit has driven you ever so slightly mad. Have a sit down and think through what you have been saying today. If people in the BBC, the judiciary and other areas of public life do not do as the state requires them to do then they should be purged. That is not how it works in a democracy.
Not as the state requires them, as the British people require them. They are setting themselves against the will of the British people. For that they need to be purged and replaced. Right now we need absolute loyalty, not someone who is going to run off to Brussels and serve two masters. Not all remainers are in that camp, I don't for one minute believe that you are or many remain posters on here including the likes of Mr Meeks. We all have a duty to make Brexit work, and that goes doubly for those in positions of power and influence. There can be no question of their loyalty or whether they have gone native in Brussels. Absolute loyalty, nothing less.
What utter bullshit ! This is a clear example of the "tyranny of the majority". A majority of 3%.
I have no duty to make Brexit work. It was advisory. In fcat, I will support anyone who will wreck it.
@SeanT Well yes sorry again, I shouldn't toy with the creative process, but of course that's why I did it. Interesting that you earlier pointed out the need to be able to imagine the pronunciation. I'm still not sure how to pronounce 'Maturin' (from Patrick O'Brian's great series) and I do mind a little, and somehow I think that's been a little niggle for ages. However I got past it and have read the series three times, and some of the books many more.
Machoorin with no stressed syllable I always assumed? Now you've shaken a 30 year old supposition.
Can't remember how they pronounced it in the film, but it didn't jar with me so I guess it wasn't dissimilar.
@SeanT "Kinnersley": And your readers are expected to get the usual pronounced M in the middle? What a cruel man you are!
You what? Is there some problem with it? Does it look odd?
I've been googling names and testing syllables for five hours straight and my brain has turned to mush
Originally you said: "HELP: I need a pretty, posh-ish, 3 syllable surname for a thriller character, maybe sounding a bit French, not beginning with K or P or R"
Well, Kinnersley has three syllables. But it doesn't sound at all French (at least to me), and it certainly begins with a K !
All the French names just sounded a bit silly: fey and twee and potboilery. The K thing was because the heroine's first name is Kath, but then I decided I quite liked the repeated consonant.
Anyway - 'Quote Pulpstar' - he informed us about dust mats.
My local wine supplier told me of the perils of Brexit - He's French. Anyway prices of his wines (irrespective of origin) had gone up by huge amounts. I suggested to him that the wines I was buying may have been in stock before Brexit. He didn't get it.
That's the way I've always assumed too. But it might be 'Mat-Chur-An', and frankly who knows. Doesn't matter, but SeanT's point about people being able to mentally say the names of the people they read about has to be spot on. Our friend Maturin is a fervent Catalan too - I imagine he'd care.
Surbiton if you are supporting anyone who will wreck Brexit, it is difficult to see who that will be.They all say they respect the referendum result even if it was advisory .Maybe Nicola Sturgeon and Sadiq Khan have a mandate to influence how we leave.
Surbiton if you are supporting anyone who will wreck Brexit, it is difficult to see who that will be.
It's obvious, isn't it? Liam Fox, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, IDS, Michael Gove, Gisela Stuart, Andrea Leadsom... It's only David Davis I don't quite trust (to screw it up).
Comments
The voter churn figures from that most recent YouGov poll suggested that, six months after the referendum, the proportion of the total 2015 Lib Dem vote that had defected to the Conservatives was three times *higher* than that moving in the opposite direction (albeit that the exchange would still favour the yellows slightly in terms of absolute numbers, because the total available pool of Tory voters is about four-and-a-half times larger than theirs.) My best guess as to the cause of this would be that, as a certain number of centrist Tory voters with fond memories of the Coalition and/or very strong Remain tendencies have been attracted to the Liberal Democrats, almost as many of the Lib Dems' surviving soft centre-right voters from 2015 have jumped ship. because of Farron's social democratic positioning and, in some cases, because they actually voted Leave and want it to happen (or, at the very least, think that trying to campaign foursquare against the referendum outcome is anti-democratic and altogether rather a bad idea.)
I continue to believe that, whilst the EU referendum is, of course, very important - and there are a lot of people on both sides of the divide for whom this is a visceral issue - this particular constitutional question is not as divisive for the population as a whole as is often made out (and certainly not when compared to the Nationalist/Unionist split in Scotland.) Moreover, there are other very good reasons why existing Conservative voters might wish to stick with Mrs May, regardless of their views on Europe.
Brexit isn't everything. If it were, we would be seeing a massive flow of Remain support to the Liberal Democrats, of Leave voters to the Conservatives and Ukip, and a very steep, heavy decline in Labour support, probably on the scale of the hammering inflicted on the Lib Dems in 2015. The fact, therefore, that the Westminster VI figures have not fluctuated wildly since Theresa May became Prime Minister is most instructive.
Also very good is FLEABAG on BBC3/BBC1
Six episodes at http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p040tlqx
Hail May!
Sounds a lot like your comments, convinced that we will stay in the EU after all
Relax. We've got it covered here. We're all cool about it.
Maybe the Leavo-Tories and Kippers will learn from the fact that the KGB knew how to rid itself of the CPSU and become more powerful. They were anything but stuck in the past.
Talking of the ~KGB...well let's just say their favourite assets in Britain don't include Jeremy Corbyn, any more than they backed Hillary Clinton.
It's also worth saying that the USSR wasn't the only country where purges took place in the 1930s.
When I attempted to parody the Leave position earlier today and LuckyGuy1983, returning the sarcasm, replied that we now saw things the same way, I realised I should never have engaged with the remain-leave discussion here. I will go back to concentrating on betting-related topics such as the French presidential election. Perhaps occasionally offering a helping hand with developing the "traitors" theory. Because that's where Leave is going, and if you want to run with such a theory you should do it properly and let it all hang out.
Hopefully there'd be no legal case on that one. Britain's NATO membership was never decided by parliament. Initiated by executive prerogative, it can be ended by executive prerogative.
It's hard to be that traitorous on Europe because we're all roughly on the fence - everyone sees good things and bad.
The number of compliments he has received from people like Clegg, Mandelson, Osborne and virtually the entire Commission endorses that viewpoint
However, for a civil servant to go rogue with his corruscating e mail to staff tells you all you want to know about him and how unsuitable he was to negotiate the UK's position to leave the EU
To be really posh you choose not to run the words together 'de la whatever' etc
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-lord-wallace-salitaire-boris-johnson-foreign-office-despiar-civil-servant-a7509181.html
I think that Boris is facing the chop in the short to medium term. I also think that the resignation by the envoy to the EU and his comments show their is a vacuum at the centre of this useless government. I am beginning to wonder how any patriotic person can support BREXIT as it means diminished status in both economic and political terms. Churchill famously used the three circles concept to describe Britain's future relationship in the world. What has Theresa May's vision for the UK been? Nothing. Just a couple of meaningless phrases. It is pathetic.
Interesting to note BREXIT is now starting to hit retailers who such as M & S and NEXT whose share prices have dropped markedly in response to their business assesments. Indeed retailers who import from abroad and have transportation costs are getting a double whammy from BREXIT and so will consumers as the higher costs from overseas suppliers eat into margins and the higher cost of fuel priced in dollars also hits the bottom line.
If this is the case Theresa May could yet dumbfound everyone once the Supreme Court decision is known and announce the way forward and challenge everyone to put up or shut up
So what’s the insider view on what’s actually happening in Government?
Liam Fox believes in reviving the “Anglosphere” – expecting the US, Australia and Canada to offer the UK whatever we want to ask for. He and others also hoped that the rest of the Commonwealth would welcome Britain back with open arms, though the recent trade visit to India offered little encouragement for them.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-negotiations-government-eu-minister-ivan-rogers-boris-johnson-david-davis-foreign-office-a7508796.html
As far as M & S and Next are concerned it has nothing to do with Brexit but tired retailer not adapted to the huge change taking place on the High Street and the effects of the internet on the retail proposition
I hope it will not come about but I could see both those brands disappearing from the High Street in the next few years
In terms of any further flows of popular sentiment toward or away from the EU during the Brexit process, we should not be tempted to assume that it will be a simple case of buyers' remorse amongst soft Leave voters if and when the going gets tough. If the other side is not seen to be reasonable then traditional British bloody-mindedness and grievance (real or imagined) is also likely to play a significant role. Indeed, it is entirely possible that the process of Brexit could lose as many, or more, sympathisers for the pro-EU cause as it gains.
Again, look at what happened in Scotland: the attempt immediately after the Leave vote to create a new wave of enthusiasm for independence (all the rhetoric about being "dragged out of Europe against our will," etc, etc,) soon fizzled out, because it turned out there were just as many pro-independence voters who disliked the EU much more than the UK, as there were pro-Union voters willing to switch to backing independence because of their commitment to the EU. A widespread assumption that a particular event, or series of events, can only lead to a movement of public opinion in one direction is not always borne out in reality.
Post truth classic?
On the one side we have an EUphile who desperately tried to water down Dave's deal saying the government are muddled, on the other side we have the government saying he jumped before he was pushed and others privately saying they think he'd gone native and wasn't to be trusted. Now we have the government replacing him with a hard headed pragmatist who has previously gone up against Putin during a time when our government was instrumental in pushing for harsh sanctions on Russia.
I know which story has more credibility. Just another desperate remainer desperately serving his true masters in Brussels just as he did when Dave tried to renegotiate our membership. Good riddance.
why would he do that we have so much "influence"
guffaw
The problem for the retailers is the lag time. This is just the start of what is going to hit the UK high street. Retailers buy months in advance and so you don't see the price rises for a period of time after an economic shock. The depreciation of sterling is an economic shock, the beneficial effects in terms of manufacturer competitiveness will not outweigh the detrimental economic effects of higher import costs i.e. fuel, raw materials and the like. So, this hoping everything will turn out alright by BREXIT supporters is misguided, indeed it is delusional.
My hope for the UK is Corbyn gets turfed out and Labour get a sensible leader to replace him. Even better would be a Labour /LD coalition that stops this BREXIT madness before real long-term trouble hits the economy.
might be a bit stupid - like all those "experts" who ridiculed his candidacy and sucked up to Hilary
In any event if Merkel gets reelected she's the who has to do the courting given how badly she has placed herself vis a vis Trump
We are likely to get collateral damage as unusually are also in positive trade balance with the US, and until we leave the EU will be hit by the same tarrifs.
Who knows? Inflation might reach a terrifying figure like 2.5%
Mr Glenn has his finger on the diplomatic pulse
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/749397/angela-merkel-donald-trump-davos-world-economic-forum
If Le Pen wins on 7th May (and she has a 20% chance according to the betting) then a rapid replanning of Brexit needs to be done. Le Pen could trigger Article 40 for France and we could end up negotiating with a collection of nation states rather than with the EU.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/11/15/what-do-we-know-about-marine-le-pen-s-policies
Try following what's happening in Germany.
Trump is more than capable of sorting out his relationship with Putin without Merkel or her mate Obama who's setting as many bear traps as he can before he leaves office.
Get real
I do follow what's happening in Germany, and my sense is that Merkel is preparing for some major multilateral diplomacy.
If it happens, it is an opportunity for the UK to partner with France in the Article 40 negotiations. We wouldn't be prevented from discussing our joint interests with France before jointly triggering Article 40. Best wait and get our canards in a row.
Who is good at Diplomacy?
if Putin wants something he'll just roll some tank divisions into the Ukraine and make Merkel change her underwear. Then he'll get his snitch Gerhard Schroeder to say why Merkel started it all.
Merkel has nothing to pressurise Putin, she's already played Obama's trade war card
Trump sees Merkel as another Obama - and his best buddy Nigel wants to see the EU fail
Sort of hard to pronounce an M anywhere in that name. Which was my rather contrived joke.
Well, Kinnersley has three syllables. But it doesn't sound at all French (at least to me), and it certainly begins with a K !
http://www.bild.de/politik/inland/afghanistan/neues-fluechtlingsabkommen-47753468.bild.html
And also has an interesting plan to deport paperless African migrants to Sierra Leone
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/makonitimes.com/2016/01/31/germany-pays-sierra-leone-to-take-asylum-rejects-from-other-african-countries/amp/?client=ms-android-sonymobile
It is a system that we should copy by offshoring, a bit like the Aussies.
The funny:
https://twitter.com/FacesPics
The insane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZRHz_QLUVU
I have no duty to make Brexit work. It was advisory. In fcat, I will support anyone who will wreck it.
Can't remember how they pronounced it in the film, but it didn't jar with me so I guess it wasn't dissimilar.
My local wine supplier told me of the perils of Brexit - He's French. Anyway prices of his wines (irrespective of origin) had gone up by huge amounts. I suggested to him that the wines I was buying may have been in stock before Brexit. He didn't get it.
That's the way I've always assumed too. But it might be 'Mat-Chur-An', and frankly who knows. Doesn't matter, but SeanT's point about people being able to mentally say the names of the people they read about has to be spot on. Our friend Maturin is a fervent Catalan too - I imagine he'd care.