politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB stays in the 40s with YouGov as conference season ends
Comments
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This victory for Ed will teach the nation a lesson, I see the hoards of voters clamoring to get the the ballot box. The hero of the Nation took on a newspaper our votes are his. Despite the declining sales and interest in the Print media as we are often showed the Nation was gripped by this story, it will live long in the memory. I for one know when I cast my ballot in 2015 it will surely be the issue that stands out. Or I could like other be over the top, maybe.0
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So, that's now 2 newspaper publishers off the Labour Christmas card list, leaving The Guardian, Mirror, Telegraph and Express as the only rags of note remaining. The latter two are hardly supportive.0
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They're called reporters SMukesh, have you never had to deal with one ?SMukesh said:It seems the MOS reporter actually spoke to Professor Keen`s daughter and asked her for a comment about the Ralph Miliband story at her father`s memorial.
These people are something else!0 -
Of course, Ed Miliband would not have printed any invitations or placed a notice in any newspaper because it was his uncle and his uncle's immediate family would have done it; and because it was a memorial service they would have done it long before the Mail decided to go after Ed.0
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He didn't. I expect the Mail to run articles like that; it's what they do, and this one was not a particularly bad example - in fact it was quite well researched and at least peripherally relevant to Ed Miliband's politics. It's the Mail, for heaven's sake - what does anyone expect?Peter_the_Punter said:I was surprised to find he carried you.
Of course, I'd much prefer it if politics were about policies, but since the entire case that the left make for electing Ed Miliband is based on personal attacks on his opponents (the Guardian is by far the worst offender in this respect), I don't hold my breath.0 -
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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Spot on. Before this week there is no way that the Tory press was ever going to let rip at EdM. Now they will. It's changed everything :-)Alanbrooke said:
The invective sort of suggests you think Ed's had a lucky escape. However I think he's now got a bit of a problem, the press have seen the man sweat and bluster. Sharks smekk blood in the water, he'll have to look over his shoulder from now on.tim said:TGOHF said:
The Mail apologising does not make Ed right I'm afraid old chap - another short term win with long term consequences.tim said:
Time to recite the PB Tory mantra my wee fife and drum chumTGOHF said:
More fool them.tim said:Lower league PB Tory reverse coming
Lucy manning @lucymanning
Apology will be coming from Mail on Sunday shortly....
The PB Tories are always wrong
The PB Tories never learn.
But if you are only obsessed with the next yougov I guess you might be happy.
At some point you'll recognise that when the thickest of the thick on here are in agreement with you you're likely to have called it wrong.
Still not there yet I see.
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Owen jones @owenJones84
@NatWest-Help Will you still advertise with Daily Mail after they smeared WWll veteran Ralph Miliband?
Owen jones and labour supporters sending tweets to big companies that advertise with the mail.0 -
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Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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Luckily not.Alanbrooke said:
They're called reporters SMukesh, have you never had to deal with one ?SMukesh said:It seems the MOS reporter actually spoke to Professor Keen`s daughter and asked her for a comment about the Ralph Miliband story at her father`s memorial.
These people are something else!
But one would expect professionals to have the decency not to ask grieving sons and daughters for a quote not remotely related to their dead parent and spoil an emotional occasion for them.0 -
I rarely *hate* anything but when it comes to mob intimidation of advertisers by the Twitterati - I make an exception.Tykejohnno said:Owen jones @owenJones84
@NatWest-Help Will you still advertise with Daily Mail after they smeared WWll veteran Ralph Miliband?
Owen jones and labour supporters sending tweets to big companies that advertise with the mail.0 -
Well it must be based on sales figures then as the Mail has no reputation to maintain.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, the Times and the Telegraph. Nothing Ed has done will make it any worse. And it may make at least some people think twice before believing that what is written is absolute gospel truth.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
What EdM has done will strengthen his credentials among those whose votes he might have a chance of winning in 2015. That does not include many who post on here, but he is sensible enough not to worry about such folk unduly.
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You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.tim said:
Terrible Backlash!Alanbrooke said:
The invective sort of suggests you think Ed's had a lucky escape. However I think he's now got a bit of a problem, the press have seen the man sweat and bluster. Sharks smekk blood in the water, he'll have to look over his shoulder from now on.tim said:TGOHF said:
The Mail apologising does not make Ed right I'm afraid old chap - another short term win with long term consequences.tim said:
Time to recite the PB Tory mantra my wee fife and drum chumTGOHF said:
More fool them.tim said:Lower league PB Tory reverse coming
Lucy manning @lucymanning
Apology will be coming from Mail on Sunday shortly....
The PB Tories are always wrong
The PB Tories never learn.
But if you are only obsessed with the next yougov I guess you might be happy.
At some point you'll recognise that when the thickest of the thick on here are in agreement with you you're likely to have called it wrong.
Still not there yet I see.
Has fitalass hacked your computer too?
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.0 -
haven't you got a building contractor to close down ? :-)SouthamObserver said:
Spot on. Before this week there is no way that the Tory press was ever going to let rip at EdM. Now they will. It's changed everything :-)Alanbrooke said:
The invective sort of suggests you think Ed's had a lucky escape. However I think he's now got a bit of a problem, the press have seen the man sweat and bluster. Sharks smekk blood in the water, he'll have to look over his shoulder from now on.tim said:TGOHF said:
The Mail apologising does not make Ed right I'm afraid old chap - another short term win with long term consequences.tim said:
Time to recite the PB Tory mantra my wee fife and drum chumTGOHF said:
More fool them.tim said:Lower league PB Tory reverse coming
Lucy manning @lucymanning
Apology will be coming from Mail on Sunday shortly....
The PB Tories are always wrong
The PB Tories never learn.
But if you are only obsessed with the next yougov I guess you might be happy.
At some point you'll recognise that when the thickest of the thick on here are in agreement with you you're likely to have called it wrong.
Still not there yet I see.0 -
Non-sarcastically, living in a country with a pathetically obedient media, I think Britain is lucky to have a press that does whatever it takes to get the story, unrestrained by fear, authority or basic human decency.SMukesh said:
Luckily not.Alanbrooke said:
They're called reporters SMukesh, have you never had to deal with one ?SMukesh said:It seems the MOS reporter actually spoke to Professor Keen`s daughter and asked her for a comment about the Ralph Miliband story at her father`s memorial.
These people are something else!
But one would expect professionals to have the decency not to ask grieving sons and daughters for a quote not remotely related to their dead parent and spoil an emotional occasion for them.0 -
Glad to hear it, Richard, although I think I can be excused for having thought otherwise.RichardNabavi said:
He didn't. I expect the Mail to run articles like that; it's what they do, and this one was not a particularly bad example - in fact it was quite well researched and at least peripherally relevant to Ed Miliband's politics. It's the Mail, for heaven's sake - what does anyone expect?Peter_the_Punter said:I was surprised to find he carried you.
Of course, I'd much prefer it if politics were about policies, but since the entire case that the left make for electing Ed Miliband is based on personal attacks on his opponents (the Guardian is by far the worst offender in this respect), I don't hold my breath.
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Nope,the mail won't think it's over but miliband should back off now with his victory of a apology.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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I think you'll find the Mail has a long-established 'reputation'SimonStClare said:
Well it must be based on sales figures then as the Mail has no reputation to maintain.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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SMukesh said:
Luckily not.Alanbrooke said:
They're called reporters SMukesh, have you never had to deal with one ?SMukesh said:It seems the MOS reporter actually spoke to Professor Keen`s daughter and asked her for a comment about the Ralph Miliband story at her father`s memorial.
These people are something else!
But one would expect professionals to have the decency not to ask grieving sons and daughters for a quote not remotely related to their dead parent and spoil an emotional occasion for them.
No I wouldn't. Journalists will see the best time to ask you tricky questions is when you're emotional.
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I'd guess it's far from over, but the Mail papers have gone too hard, too early.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Realistically, this is a rightwing paper attacking a leftwing politician. Their clumsy sending of a reporter to a memorial service to dig up dirt looks morally iffy, at the least, and downright stupid, given the previous few days events.
Unless they've got anything substantive about Ed himself, I think it won't go anywhere. So Ralph was a raving Marxist, so what? Its not gonna change votes, and Ed looks good to left leaners, brawling with the Mail.
The Mail, on the other hand, have declared war on Milliband, and by default, Labour. I genuinely can't see the Mail winning, they've only furthered the likes of Hacked Off.
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au contraire, instead of shrugging a chip paper story off he has made it personal with the press.SouthamObserver said:
The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, the Times and the Telegraph. Nothing Ed has done will make it any worse. And it may make at least some people think twice before believing that what is written is absolute gospel truth.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
What EdM has done will strengthen his credentials among those whose votes he might have a chance of winning in 2015. That does not include many who post on here, but he is sensible enough not to worry about such folk unduly.0 -
@SouthamObserver
'What EdM has done will strengthen his credentials among those whose votes he might have a chance of winning in 2015. That does not include many who post on here, but he is sensible enough not to worry about such folk unduly.'
In the list of voters concerns do you expect that to overtake the clamour for proportional representation?0 -
I've noticed one thing on PB recently,Miliband seems to be sending the wavering tories and the right back to the cons ;-)0
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You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
Do you seriously believe he was not in a serious fight with them before the Mail attacked his father? He knew, we all knew, what was coming (what will still come) between now and the GE. He will be absolutely savaged by the Tory press on a relentless basis. This last week has made absolutely no difference to that, except EdM has used what the Mail did to his advantage. And, of course, it was calculated and political, even though there is no doubt he was also genuinely hurt by seeing his father being accused of hating Britain. Remember - Ed's actions are not meant to appeal to people like you who would never vote for him in a million years. Ed needs 35% of this country to, though, and the likelihood is he will be PM. The Mail gave him a great opportunity to speak to them. And the MoS has just shown that Ed was spot on.
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Arf - cheers that made me chuckle :-)Anorak said:
I think you'll find the Mail has a long-established 'reputation'SimonStClare said:
Well it must be based on sales figures then as the Mail has no reputation to maintain.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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I think it's not his choice. he's sprinted ahead in the first 100m, what happens if they're running a marathon ?Tykejohnno said:
Nope,the mail won't think it's over but miliband should back off now with his victory of a apology.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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Yep a reputation for being owned by a family who supported Hitler and The Nazis with an editor whose father who did not fight against the Nazis in WWIIAnorak said:
I think you'll find the Mail has a long-established 'reputation'SimonStClare said:
Well it must be based on sales figures then as the Mail has no reputation to maintain.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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Class act, using dead relatives in your political battles.tim said:
Ed was always going to be in a fight with The Mail Group and Murdoch.Alanbrooke said:
You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.tim said:
Terrible Backlash!Alanbrooke said:
The invective sort of suggests you think Ed's had a lucky escape. However I think he's now got a bit of a problem, the press have seen the man sweat and bluster. Sharks smekk blood in the water, he'll have to look over his shoulder from now on.tim said:TGOHF said:
The Mail apologising does not make Ed right I'm afraid old chap - another short term win with long term consequences.tim said:
Time to recite the PB Tory mantra my wee fife and drum chumTGOHF said:
More fool them.tim said:Lower league PB Tory reverse coming
Lucy manning @lucymanning
Apology will be coming from Mail on Sunday shortly....
The PB Tories are always wrong
The PB Tories never learn.
But if you are only obsessed with the next yougov I guess you might be happy.
At some point you'll recognise that when the thickest of the thick on here are in agreement with you you're likely to have called it wrong.
Still not there yet I see.
Has fitalass hacked your computer too?
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
Bombing them both on the runway is a sound tactic.
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@Southam - That's the Tory press run by an editor who was very keen on Gordon Brown, right?0
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What? That a newspaper can't have an opinion that the LotO doesn't like based on quotes from the man himself?TwistedFireStopper said:
I'd guess it's far from over, but the Mail papers have gone too hard, too early.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Realistically, this is a rightwing paper attacking a leftwing politician. Their clumsy sending of a reporter to a memorial service to dig up dirt looks morally iffy, at the least, and downright stupid, given the previous few days events.
Unless they've got anything substantive about Ed himself, I think it won't go anywhere. So Ralph was a raving Marxist, so what? Its not gonna change votes, and Ed looks good to left leaners, brawling with the Mail.
The Mail, on the other hand, have declared war on Milliband, and by default, Labour. I genuinely can't see the Mail winning, they've only furthered the likes of Hacked Off.
I think the Mail has played a blinder in the main - the reaction of Labour has caught them on the hop big time but EdM = Marxist has been established for those of us in the middle.
The reaction of EdM and Labour has polarised this debate more than anything. I have little sympathy for EdM here - he brought his dad into the mix repeatedly - and when his dad got criticised, he went off the deep end.0 -
Most likely there was an announcement in the death column so that everyone who knew him has the details. But that's hardly an "advertisment" in the normal sense of the wordtim said:AveryLP said:
Since when are memorial services private? An announcement is made by the family in a newspaper and all are welcome to attend, friend and foe alike. Local newspaper journalists have been attending the memorial services for Lib Dem Councillors since time, er, immemorial.tim said:
Can't see even the declining band of Dacre fans trying to defend this one.CarlottaVance said:Miliband letter to Rotheremere:
"The Editor of the Mail on Sunday has since confirmed to my office that a journalist from his newspaper did indeed attend the memorial uninvited with the intention of seeking information for publication this weekend.
Sending a reporter to my late uncle’s memorial crosses a line of common decency. I believe it a symptom of the culture and practices of both the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/03/nick-cleggs-lbc-phone-in-and-reaction-to-david-camerons-conference-speech-politics-live-blog#block-524d4b49e4b0c602c15d5a8f
On this one, I'd say he has them 'bang to rights...'
Just what is Ed Miliband trying to hide?
He'll be posting Stasi guards at the church gates next.
I doubt that a memorial service for Guys Hospital work colleagues and family in the hospital will have been publically advertised, maybe someone can look.0 -
@Tyke - That include you? Didn't you go purple a little while ago?Tykejohnno said:I've noticed one thing on PB recently,Miliband seems to be sending the wavering tories and the right back to the cons ;-)
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It already was as far as the press is concerned. Their attacks on him between now and the GE were always going to be relentless and very personal. I doubt he really is as thin-skinned as you hope he is. He has seen an opportunity and used it to his advantage.Alanbrooke said:
au contraire, instead of shrugging a chip paper story off he has made it personal with the press.SouthamObserver said:
The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, the Times and the Telegraph. Nothing Ed has done will make it any worse. And it may make at least some people think twice before believing that what is written is absolute gospel truth.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
What EdM has done will strengthen his credentials among those whose votes he might have a chance of winning in 2015. That does not include many who post on here, but he is sensible enough not to worry about such folk unduly.
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I say weasel myself
Jack of Kent @JackofKent
Ed turned over his brother, broke with Murdoch, shafted Cameron on Syria vote, and now all this; an effective politician, if nothing else.0 -
Of course they were, but now he's just upped the ante and against the advice of macchiavelli he has left a couple of wounded enemies. These guys know they can't afford a PM Ed, it's personal .tim said:
Ed was always going to be in a fight with The Mail Group and Murdoch.Alanbrooke said:
You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.tim said:
Terrible Backlash!Alanbrooke said:
The invective sort of suggests you think Ed's had a lucky escape. However I think he's now got a bit of a problem, the press have seen the man sweat and bluster. Sharks smekk blood in the water, he'll have to look over his shoulder from now on.tim said:TGOHF said:
The Mail apologising does not make Ed right I'm afraid old chap - another short term win with long term consequences.tim said:
Time to recite the PB Tory mantra my wee fife and drum chumTGOHF said:
More fool them.tim said:Lower league PB Tory reverse coming
Lucy manning @lucymanning
Apology will be coming from Mail on Sunday shortly....
The PB Tories are always wrong
The PB Tories never learn.
But if you are only obsessed with the next yougov I guess you might be happy.
At some point you'll recognise that when the thickest of the thick on here are in agreement with you you're likely to have called it wrong.
Still not there yet I see.
Has fitalass hacked your computer too?
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
Bombing them both on the runway is a sound tactic.
It's showing the problems of opportunism. He has drifted in to 2 fights this week one with the press and another on cost of living. The press will now engage in guerilla warfare up to the GE and he will lose the cost of living on the back of economic recovery and Coalition pre-election largesse. The headlines aren't worth the battle.0 -
That's the thing though. If they'd gone on the Ralph = Marxist angle they'd have had pretty solid ground.Plato said:
What? That a newspaper can't have an opinion that the LotO doesn't like based on quotes from the man himself?TwistedFireStopper said:
I'd guess it's far from over, but the Mail papers have gone too hard, too early.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Realistically, this is a rightwing paper attacking a leftwing politician. Their clumsy sending of a reporter to a memorial service to dig up dirt looks morally iffy, at the least, and downright stupid, given the previous few days events.
Unless they've got anything substantive about Ed himself, I think it won't go anywhere. So Ralph was a raving Marxist, so what? Its not gonna change votes, and Ed looks good to left leaners, brawling with the Mail.
The Mail, on the other hand, have declared war on Milliband, and by default, Labour. I genuinely can't see the Mail winning, they've only furthered the likes of Hacked Off.
I think the Mail has played a blinder in the main - the reaction of Labour has caught them on the hop big time but EdM = Marxist has been established for those of us in the middle.
The reaction of EdM and Labour has polarised this debate more than anything. I have little sympathy for EdM here - he brought his dad into the mix repeatedly - and when his dad got criticised, he went off the deep end.
The "hated Britain" thing is where overstretching has got them into trouble (and has distracted things so much that they haven't established Ed = Marxist much at all).0 -
This sums this whole farago up
Ian Birrell @ianbirrell
.@johnprescott urges boycott of Mail yet writes for paper that went through Cameron's bins to write story on nappies used by disabled child0 -
@JosiasJessop
Thanks for your response.
I infer that you don't have any more facts at your disposal than I do, so we're both into the realms of 'reasonable speculation'.
I agree that Ed was placed to know or at least suspect what was going on. To what extent he was in a position to do anything about it can only be a matter of conjecture for us though.
No conjecture necessary however about his brother's decision not to resign from the Cabinet and thereby force Brown's resignation. We can judge that, and I judged it to be a lack of political judgement rather than cowardice.
Would Ed's resignation in the manner you suggest have helped at all? Personally I doubt it. Sure, he'd have had the moral high ground for a bit, but it's a useless bit of real estate, and if he chose to stay and fight from within, I would respect that - if indeed, that's what he did...we just don't know.
Looking forward, I should say Ed is in a pretty good position to clean out the stables. None of the combatants in the Blair/Brown wars would dare lift a finger against him now. Even Balls, I should think, could safely be installed at The Treasury in due course, with a firm warning to behave or go straight to the backbenches.
It's what Blair should have done with Brown, but maybe their personal history made that impossible.0 -
... there is no doubt he was also genuinely hurt by seeing his father being accused of hating Britain. ...SouthamObserver said:You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
How do you think Sir Mark Thatcher and Carole Thatcher felt at the BBC carefully "balancing" coverage of their mother's funeral?
Or is it alright in your world to criticise the political record of a former Prime Minister but not that of a Marxist Professor at the LSE?
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Do you seriously believe he was not in a serious fight with them before the Mail attacked his father? He knew, we all knew, what was coming (what will still come) between now and the GE. He will be absolutely savaged by the Tory press on a relentless basis. This last week has made absolutely no difference to that, except EdM has used what the Mail did to his advantage. And, of course, it was calculated and political, even though there is no doubt he was also genuinely hurt by seeing his father being accused of hating Britain. Remember - Ed's actions are not meant to appeal to people like you who would never vote for him in a million years. Ed needs 35% of this country to, though, and the likelihood is he will be PM. The Mail gave him a great opportunity to speak to them. And the MoS has just shown that Ed was spot on.SouthamObserver said:You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
I don't believe the stakes were so high before this week no. All politicians have a kind of love hate relationship with the press. Cameron and Clegg get monstered regularly, but they've got broader shoulder or brighter brains; take your pick.0 -
See Lembit Opik.MarkSenior said:
Yep a reputation for being owned by a family who supported Hitler and The Nazis with an editor whose father who did not fight against the Nazis in WWIIAnorak said:
I think you'll find the Mail has a long-established 'reputation'SimonStClare said:
Well it must be based on sales figures then as the Mail has no reputation to maintain.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
0 -
Plato said:
What? That a newspaper can't have an opinion that the LotO doesn't like based on quotes from the man himself?TwistedFireStopper said:
I'd guess it's far from over, but the Mail papers have gone too hard, too early.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Realistically, this is a rightwing paper attacking a leftwing politician. Their clumsy sending of a reporter to a memorial service to dig up dirt looks morally iffy, at the least, and downright stupid, given the previous few days events.
Unless they've got anything substantive about Ed himself, I think it won't go anywhere. So Ralph was a raving Marxist, so what? Its not gonna change votes, and Ed looks good to left leaners, brawling with the Mail.
The Mail, on the other hand, have declared war on Milliband, and by default, Labour. I genuinely can't see the Mail winning, they've only furthered the likes of Hacked Off.
I think the Mail has played a blinder in the main - the reaction of Labour has caught them on the hop big time but EdM = Marxist has been established for those of us in the middle.
The reaction of EdM and Labour has polarised this debate more than anything. I have little sympathy for EdM here - he brought his dad into the mix repeatedly - and when his dad got criticised, he went off the deep end.
I really don't care for Milliband at all, but I liked the fact that he came out to bat for his old man, although he probably did go a bit whiney. The Mail papers, though, have seriously undermined themselves with the MoS reporter doorstepping Milliband family members at that memorial service.
Their editor has apologised unreservedly for that( not the original article, mind, which doesn't need an apology), and staff have been suspended.
They wouldn't do that if they thought they were in the right,0 -
How do you think Sir Mark Thatcher and Carole Thatcher felt at the BBC carefully "balancing" coverage of their mother's funeral?AveryLP said:
... there is no doubt he was also genuinely hurt by seeing his father being accused of hating Britain. ...SouthamObserver said:You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
Or is it alright in your world to criticise the political record of a former Prime Minister but not that of a Marxist Professor at the LSE?
I am making no moral judgement. I am merely stating I believe that Miliband was genuinely hurt by what the Mail wrote. I did not watch Mrs T's funeral and I would be loathe to make any judgements on what was or was not balanced based on comments by clearly partisan sources!
0 -
What's that Skippy?
Lefties being hypocrites again?0 -
The Mail (Daily and Sunday) have both been dic*heads and deserve to be bitten.SouthamObserver said:
It already was as far as the press is concerned. Their attacks on him between now and the GE were always going to be relentless and very personal. I doubt he really is as thin-skinned as you hope he is. He has seen an opportunity and used it to his advantage.Alanbrooke said:
au contraire, instead of shrugging a chip paper story off he has made it personal with the press.SouthamObserver said:
The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, the Times and the Telegraph. Nothing Ed has done will make it any worse. And it may make at least some people think twice before believing that what is written is absolute gospel truth.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
What EdM has done will strengthen his credentials among those whose votes he might have a chance of winning in 2015. That does not include many who post on here, but he is sensible enough not to worry about such folk unduly.
But I'm less sure your central thesis that an all out assault against Miliband would have been inevitable, at least before the perceived shift to the left at last week's conference. It is a matter of undisputed fact that Dacre holds Cameron in complete contempt.
But we are where we are. And the Mail will be unrelenting and unremitting between now and 2015. This story will be soon be forgotten by a bored public (and that's the minority who even know about it!) but the longer-term impact of the fear and loathing of much of the media is difficult to predict.
As a matter of interest, are you still refusing to vote Labour while Ed Balls occupies a leading position?0 -
In what way does it sum the story up? You are way off the mark on this, miles off. Most decent people would think it inappropriate at best, quizzing mourning relatives. You are certifiable if you really want to defend it. Think carefully.Plato said:This sums this whole farago up
Ian Birrell @ianbirrell
.@johnprescott urges boycott of Mail yet writes for paper that went through Cameron's bins to write story on nappies used by disabled child
0 -
"EdM = Marxist has been established for those of us in the middle" ...
... writes a fully paid up member of the Conservative party!0 -
OT Ezra Klein on the government shutdown.
The situation seems to be that it's impossible to end the shutdown because it's not actually about anything except an argument over whether the government should be shut down. You can't make an agreement if you were never disagreeing about anything particular in the first place.
If the parties can't get together and find something to disagree about in two weeks House Republicans will destroy the world economy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/03/wonkbook-why-the-shutdown-will-be-so-hard-to-end-in-one-perfect-quote/0 -
Sheesh BaJ how do you think journos get stories ? Journalism is a seriously intrusive business and if you don't like it don't buy papers or watch television because they all do it.Bobajob said:
In what way does it sum the story up? You are way off the mark on this, miles off. Most decent people would think it inappropriate at best, quizzing mourning relatives. You are certifiable if you really want to defend it. Think carefully.Plato said:This sums this whole farago up
Ian Birrell @ianbirrell
.@johnprescott urges boycott of Mail yet writes for paper that went through Cameron's bins to write story on nappies used by disabled child0 -
@JohnO
"....are you still refusing to vote Labour while Ed Balls occupies a leading position? "
Now that is a very interesting question, young John, and one which a number of us here have asked themselves?
I guess in my case it will probably come down to the quality of the local candidate. Here in sunny Wanstead it is John Cryer.
What do you make of him? (I'm serious.)0 -
0
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And you are ignoring the fact that I was a Tory Tony - lots of Lefties like to rubbish me and my ilk for changing our votes and not being diehards - but its us who change the GE results at the end of the day.SouthamObserver said:"EdM = Marxist has been established for those of us in the middle" ...
... writes a fully paid up member of the Conservative party!
That I felt compelled to join the Tories having NEVER joining a party before and a 3x Labour voter should worry you - but you're smuggly dismissive instead.
Have fun.0 -
JohnO I think Balls is poison but, more to the point now that I have given it a bit of thought, I am not prepared to vote on the basis of a party not being the one I dislike the most. I need some positive reasons and, as of now, Labour is not providing enough of them.0
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tim much as I'd love to support you in belittling Osborne's latest nincompoopery, we've all got poor Ed to worry about \ laugh at.tim said:Bubble Boy Osborne has got house prices rising at six times the rate of wages
Prices in the three months to September were 6.2% higher than in the same three
months a year earlier. This continued the upward trend in the annual rate from March 2013 (1.1%).
http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media1/press_releases/2013_press_releases/halifax/0310_HPI.asp
0 -
I am making no moral judgement. I am merely stating I believe that Miliband was genuinely hurt by what the Mail wrote. I did not watch Mrs T's funeral and I would be loathe to make any judgements on what was or was not balanced based on comments by clearly partisan sources!SouthamObserver said:
How do you think Sir Mark Thatcher and Carole Thatcher felt at the BBC carefully "balancing" coverage of their mother's funeral?AveryLP said:
... there is no doubt he was also genuinely hurt by seeing his father being accused of hating Britain. ...SouthamObserver said:You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
Or is it alright in your world to criticise the political record of a former Prime Minister but not that of a Marxist Professor at the LSE?
Margaret Thatcher's funeral was the saddest day of my life, SO.
The fact that you deliberately avoiding paying your last respects to the greatest peacetime Prime Minister in modern memory suggests to me that you may have been mis-educated at the London School of Economics.
0 -
I take it you've never met a journalist either.tim said:Alanbrooke said:
Sheesh BaJ how do you think journos get stories ? Journalism is a seriously intrusive business and if you don't like it don't buy papers or watch television because they all do it.Bobajob said:
In what way dmourning relatives. You are certifiable if you really want to defend it. Think carefully.Plato said:This sums this whole farago up
Ian Birrell @ianbirrell
.@johnprescott urges boycott of Mail yet writes for paper that went through Cameron's bins to write story on nappies used by disabled child
This looks shambolic though
"Just as the Miliband/Mail row was dying down, along comes the next tranche of fury — and much more justified this time. Mail on Sunday editor Geordie Greig has gone into full damage control mode (suspending two journalists and issuing a grovelling apology) after Ed Miliband revealed that a MoS reporter had infiltrated a family memorial service yesterday to ask guests what they thought of the row with the Mail. Grieg was pressing flesh at Tory conference while the dirty deed was being done, wining and dining cabinet ministers. Perhaps he should have stayed at home to keep an eye on his hacks."
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2013/10/geordie-greig-was-in-manchester-during-miliband-memorial/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=geordie-greig-was-in-manchester-during-miliband-memorial&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter0 -
Well not if you stick with Hello Magazine. ;-)Bobajob said:@alanbrooke
They don't all do it, not at all.
0 -
Haven't noticed that (and the polls don't suggest that's a general phenomenon yet) - plato is now hardcore Tory but with respect I wouldn't have put her down as a waverer before, even if she did vote for Tony Blair when he stood against Pitt the Younger or whenever it was. The Kippers are still Kippers, Lab/Libs are still Lab/Libs, but with few exceptions the Tories here are clearly less than enthusiastic about the Mail's tactics.Tykejohnno said:I've noticed one thing on PB recently,Miliband seems to be sending the wavering tories and the right back to the cons ;-)
The under-25 stuff doesn't really need driving home. The apparent victims of the policy (I say apparent since it's not really clear what the policy is, exactly) will probably have seen the headlines. I agree that we can't go on talking about the Mail forever, but at present they're discrediting themselves quite thoroughly, even with much of their own readership if their online comments are any guide.
Clearly Ed wouldn't have picked this battle, but one has to be willing to fight battles when they arise. When they return to Ed-bashing their readers are going to roll their eyes and say "oh god not more", and that's actually quite significant.
0 -
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More of the "young", old bean. Being a pbTory makes one pert, gorgeous, altogether lovely and extremely rich (largely through a fundamental and irreversible shift in the balance of wealth and power from Merseyside to Surrey).Peter_the_Punter said:@JohnO
"....are you still refusing to vote Labour while Ed Balls occupies a leading position? "
Now that is a very interesting question, young John, and one which a number of us here have asked themselves?
I guess in my case it will probably come down to the quality of the local candidate. Here in sunny Wanstead it is John Cryer.
What do you make of him? (I'm serious.)
Don't know much about Cryer apart from his being on the left and almost certainly a chip off the blocs of both his former MP parents. Is he assiduous as a local MP despite the seat being safe?0 -
Consequences of Lychgate:
1) The Mail will be more intensely disliked by those who already disliked it. Some of those who hadn't thought much about the press's excesses will be repelled (but that is now a fairly small group after the phone hacking scandal).
2) Ed Miliband will get some sympathy for having been a press victim. I'm doubtful it will have cemented an image in the public's mind of him as a titan of press freedom, though I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.
3) The cabal of newspaper editors will be sending a man with a poison-tipped umbrella round to deal with Mr Dacre, given that the Leveson reforms will now undoubtedly go through on the state-administered basis.0 -
Margaret Thatcher's funeral was the saddest day of my life, SO.AveryLP said:
I am making no moral judgement. I am merely stating I believe that Miliband was genuinely hurt by what the Mail wrote. I did not watch Mrs T's funeral and I would be loathe to make any judgements on what was or was not balanced based on comments by clearly partisan sources!SouthamObserver said:
How do you think Sir Mark Thatcher and Carole Thatcher felt at the BBC carefully "balancing" coverage of their mother's funeral?AveryLP said:
... there is no doubt he was also genuinely hurt by seeing his father being accused of hating Britain. ...SouthamObserver said:You're blustering tim, it's always a sign you're nervous. Ed's now in a fight with several newspapers in the run up to an election. You're hoping the rest of them will sit on the sidelines, it's not in the nature of our press to do so.
And once again Ed has missed pinning HMG to the wall on stupid nonsense like the U25 mess. He's a thin skinned prima donna and it's starting to show.
Or is it alright in your world to criticise the political record of a former Prime Minister but not that of a Marxist Professor at the LSE?
The fact that you deliberately avoiding paying your last respects to the greatest peacetime Prime Minister in modern memory suggests to me that you may have been mis-educated at the London School of Economics.
Not guilty: Birmingham University, 1983-86, medieval and modern history, northern soul and lager
0 -
Test0
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Your point being tim? I'd guess he was at the Labour Conference too.tim said:Alanbrooke said:
Sheesh BaJ how do you think journos get stories ? Journalism is a seriously intrusive business and if you don't like it don't buy papers or watch television because they all do it.Bobajob said:
In what way does it sum the story up? You are way off the mark on this, miles off. Most decent people would think it inappropriate at best, quizzing mourning relatives. You are certifiable if you really want to defend it. Think carefully.Plato said:This sums this whole farago up
Ian Birrell @ianbirrell
.@johnprescott urges boycott of Mail yet writes for paper that went through Cameron's bins to write story on nappies used by disabled child
This looks shambolic though
"Just as the Miliband/Mail row was dying down, along comes the next tranche of fury — and much more justified this time. Mail on Sunday editor Geordie Greig has gone into full damage control mode (suspending two journalists and issuing a grovelling apology) after Ed Miliband revealed that a MoS reporter had infiltrated a family memorial service yesterday to ask guests what they thought of the row with the Mail. Grieg was pressing flesh at Tory conference while the dirty deed was being done, wining and dining cabinet ministers. Perhaps he should have stayed at home to keep an eye on his hacks."
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2013/10/geordie-greig-was-in-manchester-during-miliband-memorial/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=geordie-greig-was-in-manchester-during-miliband-memorial&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Here's a photo of Ed and Geordie having a laugh on a train together.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/07/article-0-13F4DE78000005DC-179_634x459.jpg0 -
Looked in a mirror lately?tim said:TGOHF said:
POSTtim said:
Never.TGOHF said:
Yes he's outed as a whining crybaby grass - a triumph.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Ever.
Learn.
OPINIONS
AS
FACTS
Its easy to spot who always gets every call wrong.
(Or, come to that, a Mirror lately?)0 -
Dacre is editor-in-chief of Associated Newspapers, so that does mean the MoS falls under his remit.
He is a great editor, that is for sure. But even Sir Alex overstretched himself on occasions as his spat with the Colmoore Mafia showed.0 -
I'm not so sure about that. Anything Ed says will now look like he is acting out of personal dislike of the press, or at least the Mail. It would be very odd to put up with all of the excesses of the press for decades and then suddenly regulate them because they've written a slanted article about a Miliband.antifrank said:3) The cabal of newspaper editors will be sending a man with a poison-tipped umbrella round to deal with Mr Dacre, given that the Leveson reforms will now undoubtedly go through on the state-administered basis.
0 -
I disagree strongly with 3). The whole point of the Mail's game is to create a pretext for PressBoF to walk away from the negotiations with the government if their version of the Royal Charter is not sealed on 9th October.antifrank said:Consequences of Lychgate:
1) The Mail will be more intensely disliked by those who already disliked it. Some of those who hadn't thought much about the press's excesses will be repelled (but that is now a fairly small group after the phone hacking scandal).
2) Ed Miliband will get some sympathy for having been a press victim. I'm doubtful it will have cemented an image in the public's mind of him as a titan of press freedom, though I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.
3) The cabal of newspaper editors will be sending a man with a poison-tipped umbrella round to deal with Mr Dacre, given that the Leveson reforms will now undoubtedly go through on the state-administered basis.
Maria Miller and Danny Alexander are being pressured into closing the issue down as fast as they can.
0 -
On Ralphgate, I have felt all week that the Mail's article itself and the paper's immediate reaction was reprehensible.
But I can't help thinking that Miliband and the wider Left are now going to use this as a crusade against the Mail and "the right wing press" (presumably nothing wrong with having a left wing press in the Mirror and Guardian, but I digress...).
We all know Miliband is capable of jumping on a bandwagon when he sees one, but to now start using his late father's memory and a slight on it by a newspaper the Left hates with a venomous passion (see Ali C on Newsnight) as a means of fomenting public outrage against the Mail and Paul Dacre, would be somewhat unseemly (and ironic), and so I do hope that won't happen.
But then I see that Miliband has written to the owner of the Mail today, and publicised the fact he's written to the owner of the Mail, so one can't help feeling that's exactly what he is going to do after all, true to form.
My sympathies may shift...0 -
The BBC is reporting that the memorial was a private one for close friends, family and colleagues.SMukesh said:
It seems the MOS reporter actually spoke to Professor Keen`s daughter and asked her for a comment about the Ralph Miliband story at her father`s memorial.
These people are something else!0 -
By making his actions publc Milband is playing to the gallery, whether this is a smart move long term I doubt, he's just reduced his room for manoeuvre.Bob__Sykes said:On Ralphgate, I have felt all week that the Mail's article itself and the paper's immediate reaction was reprehensible.
But I can't help thinking that Miliband and the wider Left are now going to use this as a crusade against the Mail and "the right wing press" (presumably nothing wrong with having a left wing press in the Mirror and Guardian, but I digress...).
We all know Miliband is capable of jumping on a bandwagon when he sees one, but to now start using his late father's memory and a slight on it by a newspaper the Left hates with a venomous passion (see Ali C on Newsnight) as a means of fomenting public outrage against the Mail and Paul Dacre, would be somewhat unseemly (and ironic), and so I do hope that won't happen.
But then I see that Miliband has written to the owner of the Mail today, and publicised the fact he's written to the owner of the Mail, so one can't help feeling that's exactly what he is going to do after all, true to form.
My sympathies may shift...0 -
Francis Maude made a good point on Newsnight last night: "Not everything which is disagreeable should be made illegal."Bob__Sykes said:On Ralphgate, I have felt all week that the Mail's article itself and the paper's immediate reaction was reprehensible.
But I can't help thinking that Miliband and the wider Left are now going to use this as a crusade against the Mail and "the right wing press" (presumably nothing wrong with having a left wing press in the Mirror and Guardian, but I digress...).
We all know Miliband is capable of jumping on a bandwagon when he sees one, but to now start using his late father's memory and a slight on it by a newspaper the Left hates with a venomous passion (see Ali C on Newsnight) as a means of fomenting public outrage against the Mail and Paul Dacre, would be somewhat unseemly (and ironic), and so I do hope that won't happen.
But then I see that Miliband has written to the owner of the Mail today, and publicised the fact he's written to the owner of the Mail, so one can't help feeling that's exactly what he is going to do after all, true to form.
My sympathies may shift...
I'm not not at all sure that Labour understands this.
0 -
a) Is this across the country? If not they're obviously rising faster in some places than others!tim said:Bubble Boy Osborne has got house prices rising at six times the rate of wages
Prices in the three months to September were 6.2% higher than in the same three
months a year earlier. This continued the upward trend in the annual rate from March 2013 (1.1%).
http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media1/press_releases/2013_press_releases/halifax/0310_HPI.asp
b) Has there really been a 1% or so rise in wages?
0 -
Precisely, tim.tim said:
Can't see the Lib Dems wanting to walk away, and Cameron cannot rely on a large number o his own backbenchers on this,AveryLP said:
I disagree strongly with 3). The whole point of the Mail's game is to create a pretext for PressBoF to walk away from the negotiations with the government if their version of the Royal Charter is not sealed on 9th October.antifrank said:Consequences of Lychgate:
1) The Mail will be more intensely disliked by those who already disliked it. Some of those who hadn't thought much about the press's excesses will be repelled (but that is now a fairly small group after the phone hacking scandal).
2) Ed Miliband will get some sympathy for having been a press victim. I'm doubtful it will have cemented an image in the public's mind of him as a titan of press freedom, though I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.
3) The cabal of newspaper editors will be sending a man with a poison-tipped umbrella round to deal with Mr Dacre, given that the Leveson reforms will now undoubtedly go through on the state-administered basis.
Maria Miller and Danny Alexander are being pressured into closing the issue down as fast as they can.
Seal the PressBoF Charter next Wednesday and the issue is put to bed bar tantrums and whining from Hugh and Ed,
Reject the PressBoF Charter and the debate will rage right up to the GE and through the imminent press trials.
0 -
The Daily mail by the look of it.tim said:
What is Labour arguing should be made illegal?Cyclefree said:
Francis Maude made a good point on Newsnight last night: "Not everything which is disagreeable should be made illegal."Bob__Sykes said:On Ralphgate, I have felt all week that the Mail's article itself and the paper's immediate reaction was reprehensible.
But I can't help thinking that Miliband and the wider Left are now going to use this as a crusade against the Mail and "the right wing press" (presumably nothing wrong with having a left wing press in the Mirror and Guardian, but I digress...).
We all know Miliband is capable of jumping on a bandwagon when he sees one, but to now start using his late father's memory and a slight on it by a newspaper the Left hates with a venomous passion (see Ali C on Newsnight) as a means of fomenting public outrage against the Mail and Paul Dacre, would be somewhat unseemly (and ironic), and so I do hope that won't happen.
But then I see that Miliband has written to the owner of the Mail today, and publicised the fact he's written to the owner of the Mail, so one can't help feeling that's exactly what he is going to do after all, true to form.
My sympathies may shift...
I'm not not at all sure that Labour understands this.0 -
Writers on political strategy have often emphasised the importance of "framing the debate".SouthamObserver said:
It already was as far as the press is concerned. Their attacks on him between now and the GE were always going to be relentless and very personal. I doubt he really is as thin-skinned as you hope he is. He has seen an opportunity and used it to his advantage.Alanbrooke said:
au contraire, instead of shrugging a chip paper story off he has made it personal with the press.SouthamObserver said:
The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, the Times and the Telegraph. Nothing Ed has done will make it any worse. And it may make at least some people think twice before believing that what is written is absolute gospel truth.Plato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
What EdM has done will strengthen his credentials among those whose votes he might have a chance of winning in 2015. That does not include many who post on here, but he is sensible enough not to worry about such folk unduly.
Obviously the Mail's intention was to frame the debate about Miliband so that a floating voter could not hear the name Miliband without hearing the tag [the Marxist hater of Britain] following behind.
Ed's counter-attack is intended to implant the idea in the electorate's head that the Mail cannot be trusted, thus devaluing any further - possibly more reality-based - criticism that they make of him. His hope would be that when a voter hears a criticism of him from the Mail they will append the words [said the paper who slurred a war veteran].
The latter framing is obviously better for Ed than allowing the first framing to go unchallenged.0 -
Apologies if this has been linked to already but a really outstanding services PMI out again this morning: http://www.markiteconomics.com/Survey/PressRelease.mvc/b668420fbbc0481898a1c701a1b55cfc
The PMIs for the quarter were the best since Q2 of 1997. This comment by their economists caught my eye:
"The buoyant data follow similar upbeat surveys of the manufacturing and construction sectors, and collectively the surveys suggest the economy will have expanded by as much as 1.2% in the third quarter; its fastest growth rate since the pre-crisis days of 2007."
All will be revealed next week but I don't think Ed Balls will be working too hard on perfecting his flatlining gesture. The employment figures look good for the foreseeable future too, especially in construction.0 -
That article's just so funny. What we were told was a massive victory for Ed looks like killing the Guardian. Why don't lefties think laws impact them too ?SeanT said:
Point 3 is bollocks. None of the major papers wants Leveson implemented in full: i.e. with state intervention. Even the Guardian, post-Snowden, is hastily backing away.antifrank said:Consequences of Lychgate:
1) The Mail will be more intensely disliked by those who already disliked it. Some of those who hadn't thought much about the press's excesses will be repelled (but that is now a fairly small group after the phone hacking scandal).
2) Ed Miliband will get some sympathy for having been a press victim. I'm doubtful it will have cemented an image in the public's mind of him as a titan of press freedom, though I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.
3) The cabal of newspaper editors will be sending a man with a poison-tipped umbrella round to deal with Mr Dacre, given that the Leveson reforms will now undoubtedly go through on the state-administered basis.
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/leveson-has-been-disastrous-says-guardian-legal-chief
It would be a VERY brave politician that took on all the papers simultaneously, from left to right, and enforced a state censor. Miliband has guile, but he is not *suicidally* brave.0 -
It's not really a victory, but if he is clever it could be spun as a victory and people will forget it was only on a narrow part. He should back away, honour intact. He's made his point now.Tykejohnno said:
Nope,the mail won't think it's over but miliband should back off now with his victory of a apology.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
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Just watched the Amjad Bashir interview on the Beeb catch up. One of the journalist's critisicms was that the 'party didn't have a disciplined operation of briefing, messaging'. Well frankly who cares about that if you aren't losing vote share over it, one of the things people don't care for is the amount of polish politicians often try and put on their parties.
By the end they conceeded that the party 'might have some racists' in it, and it wasn't in fact racist. Every party is going to have some racists in it, probably criminals and murderers have voted Labour, Tory and Lib Dem in the past. So the accusation that some members are this, that or the other is quite pathetic and weak really.0 -
As if I'd posted any of that other than to get the opportunity to use the word "Lychgate".SeanT said:
Point 3 is bollocks. None of the major papers wants Leveson implemented in full: i.e. with state intervention. Even the Guardian, post-Snowden, is hastily backing away.antifrank said:Consequences of Lychgate:
1) The Mail will be more intensely disliked by those who already disliked it. Some of those who hadn't thought much about the press's excesses will be repelled (but that is now a fairly small group after the phone hacking scandal).
2) Ed Miliband will get some sympathy for having been a press victim. I'm doubtful it will have cemented an image in the public's mind of him as a titan of press freedom, though I'm prepared to be proved wrong on that.
3) The cabal of newspaper editors will be sending a man with a poison-tipped umbrella round to deal with Mr Dacre, given that the Leveson reforms will now undoubtedly go through on the state-administered basis.
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/leveson-has-been-disastrous-says-guardian-legal-chief
It would be a VERY brave politician that took on all the papers simultaneously, from left to right, and enforced a state censor. Miliband has guile, but he is not *suicidally* brave.0 -
Comrade Sean T is just a Primrose Hill lefty luvvie internationalist (note his love of foreign shores!) masquerading as a goose-stepping, Horst Wessel-singing, Jew-baiting Nazi! But highly entertaining all the same!SeanT said:Actually, I've just realised who is benefiting most from this whole Mail/Miliband kerffufle.
Me!!
Damian Thompson @holysmoke 1m
The Guardian and Left-wing mass murderers: a love story < getting lots of traffic! http://fw.to/c0vDIhV
Keep up the good work, Comrade!0 -
I wonder if Jon Snow's source is reliable ...
My source at the Daily Mail tells me Rothermere is fuming: Has given Dacre a one year contract only: wants him out and Geordie Greig in!0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
'Has guile', Mr. T? Is that a shorthand way of saying he's an opportunistic little shit?0 -
only if it sticks. The Mail has been around for as long as everyone in this country, Ed's been around for 3 yrs as Loto. Institutions don't just tumble on some bloke's say so.OblitusSumMe said:
Writers on political strategy have often emphasised the importance of "framing the debate".SouthamObserver said:
It already was as far as the press is concerned. Their attacks on him between now and the GE were always going to be relentless and very personal. I doubt he really is as thin-skinned as you hope he is. He has seen an opportunity and used it to his advantage.Alanbrooke said:
au contraire, instead of shrugging a chip paper story off he has made it personal with the press.SouthamObserver said:
The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, thePlato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Obviously the Mail's intention was to frame the debate about Miliband so that a floating voter could not hear the name Miliband without hearing the tag [the Marxist hater of Britain] following behind.
Ed's counter-attack is intended to implant the idea in the electorate's head that the Mail cannot be trusted, thus devaluing any further - possibly more reality-based - criticism that they make of him. His hope would be that when a voter hears a criticism of him from the Mail they will append the words [said the paper who slurred a war veteran].
The latter framing is obviously better for Ed than allowing the first framing to go unchallenged.0 -
I think both the Ralphgate Mail headline and the picture the Times have used for Farage are both pretty disgusting, it is up to Messrs Miliband and Farage to pursue the matters should they wish if they feel any smearing has taken place.
I think both are beyond the pale, but that is the price we pay for a free press. Our libel laws are very much sufficient.
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Interesting.edmundintokyo said:OT Ezra Klein on the government shutdown.
The situation seems to be that it's impossible to end the shutdown because it's not actually about anything except an argument over whether the government should be shut down. You can't make an agreement if you were never disagreeing about anything particular in the first place.
If the parties can't get together and find something to disagree about in two weeks House Republicans will destroy the world economy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/03/wonkbook-why-the-shutdown-will-be-so-hard-to-end-in-one-perfect-quote/
The only reason the House Republicans have this power is because of the electoral anomaly that gave them more seats in the House with fewer votes than the Democrats in 2012.
I guess there's something about the American psyche that explains why that isn't a bigger deal in the current impasse? A poster recently suggested there would be mass civil disobedience if Miliband became PM with fewer votes than Cameron...0 -
"victims"?NickPalmer said:
Haven't noticed that (and the polls don't suggest that's a general phenomenon yet) - plato is now hardcore Tory but with respect I wouldn't have put her down as a waverer before, even if she did vote for Tony Blair when he stood against Pitt the Younger or whenever it was. The Kippers are still Kippers, Lab/Libs are still Lab/Libs, but with few exceptions the Tories here are clearly less than enthusiastic about the Mail's tactics.Tykejohnno said:I've noticed one thing on PB recently,Miliband seems to be sending the wavering tories and the right back to the cons ;-)
The under-25 stuff doesn't really need driving home. The apparent victims of the policy (I say apparent since it's not really clear what the policy is, exactly) will probably have seen the headlines. I agree that we can't go on talking about the Mail forever, but at present they're discrediting themselves quite thoroughly, even with much of their own readership if their online comments are any guide.
Clearly Ed wouldn't have picked this battle, but one has to be willing to fight battles when they arise. When they return to Ed-bashing their readers are going to roll their eyes and say "oh god not more", and that's actually quite significant.
Very interesting choice of words. Please expand on your reasoning for selecting that word.0 -
F1: apparently there's a rumour Vettel's car may be illegally fitted with traction control:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24381349
The reasoning is that Vettel was able to apply the power about 20 yards before everyone else (including Webber). Minardi reckons that the engine noise was the same as back when traction control was legal.
Even if the tropical storm misses the circuit, it could well produce strong winds and lashings of rain. So, pay attention to the weather forecast:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/243801390 -
Libel laws don't apply to dead people.Pulpstar said:I think both the Ralphgate Mail headline and the picture the Times have used for Farage are both pretty disgusting, it is up to Messrs Miliband and Farage to pursue the matters should they wish if they feel any smearing has taken place.
I think both are beyond the pale, but that is the price we pay for a free press. Our libel laws are very much sufficient.
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Just like the News of the World.Alanbrooke said:
only if it sticks. The Mail has been around for as long as everyone in this country, Ed's been around for 3 yrs as Loto. Institutions don't just tumble on some bloke's say so.OblitusSumMe said:
Writers on political strategy have often emphasised the importance of "framing the debate".SouthamObserver said:
It already was as far as the press is concerned. Their attacks on him between now and the GE were always going to be relentless and very personal. I doubt he really is as thin-skinned as you hope he is. He has seen an opportunity and used it to his advantage.Alanbrooke said:
au contraire, instead of shrugging a chip paper story off he has made it personal with the press.SouthamObserver said:
The Mail will obviously do what it was always going to do. As will the Sun, the Express, thePlato said:.
Gallons of ink and over 2m readers tells me who will win the long game.Alanbrooke said:
it's only a victory if it's over, do you think it's over ?Tykejohnno said:
That's how I see it,miliband should back off now or he could over do his position and the mail better watch out for companies that advertise with them,labour bloggers/supporters pushing for a boycott.MikeSmithson said:This looks like a massive victory for Ed Miliband
Obviously the Mail's intention was to frame the debate about Miliband so that a floating voter could not hear the name Miliband without hearing the tag [the Marxist hater of Britain] following behind.
Ed's counter-attack is intended to implant the idea in the electorate's head that the Mail cannot be trusted, thus devaluing any further - possibly more reality-based - criticism that they make of him. His hope would be that when a voter hears a criticism of him from the Mail they will append the words [said the paper who slurred a war veteran].
The latter framing is obviously better for Ed than allowing the first framing to go unchallenged.0 -
Mr. Smukesh, your post reminds me of the other day when some were saying it would be tragic if the Guardian went out of business.0
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Ed Miliband is not dead.corporeal said:
Libel laws don't apply to dead people.Pulpstar said:I think both the Ralphgate Mail headline and the picture the Times have used for Farage are both pretty disgusting, it is up to Messrs Miliband and Farage to pursue the matters should they wish if they feel any smearing has taken place.
I think both are beyond the pale, but that is the price we pay for a free press. Our libel laws are very much sufficient.0 -
I don`t remember saying that but what`s your point?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Smukesh, your post reminds me of the other day when some were saying it would be tragic if the Guardian went out of business.
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Quite.SeanT said:
Jon Snow's source is winding him up, bigtime. Dacre runs probably the most successful paper in the country, and has created the world's most popular newspaper website.SouthamObserver said:I wonder if Jon Snow's source is reliable ...
My source at the Daily Mail tells me Rothermere is fuming: Has given Dacre a one year contract only: wants him out and Geordie Greig in!
Yeah. "One year contract". Of course.
Dacre reaches retirement age next month & Rothermere has asked him to stay on "for at least another 12 months...."
as I posted yesterday:
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/paul-dacre-work-daily-mail-editor-after-turning-65-new-contract-agreed
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Tomorrow's tabloid headlines are currently writing themselves:
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Branston-pickle-lorry-crashes-near-Cheddar/story-19882485-detail/story.html0 -
ConHome names Oliver Dowden (Deputy Chief of Staff to Cameron), Chris Philp (lost by 42 votes to Glenda in H&K in 2010) and Laura Trott (Camden Cllr, SpAd to Cameron, former SpAd to Maude) as front runners for Croydon South. Traditional selection, no Open Primary.
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