While the Great Patriot was going up to Oxford to serve her Mr Whippy apprenticeship and Peter Dacre was doing essential war work keeping up the morale of the chorus line, [Ralph Miliband]
...aware of the fact that many of his Belgian comrades were engaged in the war against Fascism and traumatised by the absence of his mother and sister, had volunteered (for naval service), using Laski's influence to override the bureaucracy.
Vivalatabloid @tabloidtroll Ed Miliband story only the 17th most read story on @MailOnline today. So much for the rubbish on here about a backlash. Readers don't care.
Those figures include the US version of MailOnline.
It's the number 4 most read story on the BBC news site.
Vivalatabloid @tabloidtroll Ed Miliband story only the 17th most read story on @MailOnline today. So much for the rubbish on here about a backlash. Readers don't care.
Five hours ago you were pontificating that this was bad for Ed who was "making it even worse" for himself, now you are spinning that no one cares.
Unspoofable - you are so ridiculous it's not longer even fun pointing it out.
Then don't.
Just providing a public service. Think of me as the PB equivalent of Hansard Alan.
While the Great Patriot was going up to Oxford to serve her Mr Whippy apprenticeship and Peter Dacre was doing essential war work keeping up the morale of the chorus line, [Ralph Miliband]
...aware of the fact that many of his Belgian comrades were engaged in the war against Fascism and traumatised by the absence of his mother and sister, had volunteered (for naval service), using Laski's influence to override the bureaucracy.
"It's your choice to go on a website and attack as unpatriotic a man who fought the Nazis"
Please feel free to highlight that post tim.
TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 264 12:22PM 'Are backgrounds suddenly off limits?'
Clearly, when they make uncomfortable reading for millionaire politicians in their Dartmouth Park bubbles.
What's "uncomfortable reading" about fighting the Nazis? In your world clearly it is, but in that world pointing out that Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering despite being the same age is " a smear"
"uncomfortable reading" = fighting Nazis "A smear" = pointing out that the editors father avoided doing so.
Why not go the whole hog and get in bed with the posters on here who have a long history of complaining about "aliens in the East End" and have done?
You're foaming at the mouth now tim.
'Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering'
Did he really? I must have missed that nugget in the Telegraph obituary.
It's made these threads even more repellant than usual when a subject leads the various tribes on here to get all indignant and charge at each other on their righteous high horses.
To think only a few days ago we have a 'debate' where people were complimenting each others argument whilst still arguing their case.
Tomorrow will be diabolical as well with Cammo centre-stage.
Unreadable today. At least I've got and will get some work done!
Vivalatabloid @tabloidtroll Ed Miliband story only the 17th most read story on @MailOnline today. So much for the rubbish on here about a backlash. Readers don't care.
Five hours ago you were pontificating that this was bad for Ed who was "making it even worse" for himself, now you are spinning that no one cares.
Unspoofable - you are so ridiculous it's not longer even fun pointing it out.
Then don't.
Just providing a public service. Think of me as the PB equivalent of Hansard Alan.
tbh BaJ I think there's quite a lot of competition for the post. It's something to do with leftie men wanting to beat up rightie women. I'm never sure if it's Thatcher displacement or hen pecked middle aged eunnuchs venting their spleen in their online garden shed.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
While the Great Patriot was going up to Oxford to serve her Mr Whippy apprenticeship and Peter Dacre was doing essential war work keeping up the morale of the chorus line, [Ralph Miliband]
...aware of the fact that many of his Belgian comrades were engaged in the war against Fascism and traumatised by the absence of his mother and sister, had volunteered (for naval service), using Laski's influence to override the bureaucracy.
Ah you clearly miss the old gal, what a hollow pointless life you lead now that she's gone.
I have no real interest in Miliband senior's war record, I am however intrigued that old labourites like yourself just can't let Thatcher go. It's bizarre - you're twinned with Osborne.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
Vivalatabloid @tabloidtroll Ed Miliband story only the 17th most read story on @MailOnline today. So much for the rubbish on here about a backlash. Readers don't care.
Five hours ago you were pontificating that this was bad for Ed who was "making it even worse" for himself, now you are spinning that no one cares.
Unspoofable - you are so ridiculous it's not longer even fun pointing it out.
Then don't.
Just providing a public service. Think of me as the PB equivalent of Hansard Alan.
tbh BaJ I think there's quite a lot of competition for the post. It's something to do with leftie men wanting to beat up rightie women. I'm never sure if it's Thatcher displacement or hen pecked middle aged eunnuchs venting their spleen in their online garden shed.
A low blow Alan - not what I'd expect from you. The fact that she is a woman is irrelevant. That's a pretty silly post. Unpleasant, too.
While the Great Patriot was going up to Oxford to serve her Mr Whippy apprenticeship and Peter Dacre was doing essential war work keeping up the morale of the chorus line, [Ralph Miliband]
...aware of the fact that many of his Belgian comrades were engaged in the war against Fascism and traumatised by the absence of his mother and sister, had volunteered (for naval service), using Laski's influence to override the bureaucracy.
Ah you clearly miss the old gal, what a hollow pointless life you lead now that she's gone.
I have no real interest in Miliband senior's war record, I am however intrigued that old labourites like yourself just can't let Thatcher go. It's bizarre - you're twinned with Osborne.
"It's your choice to go on a website and attack as unpatriotic a man who fought the Nazis"
Please feel free to highlight that post tim.
TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 264 12:22PM 'Are backgrounds suddenly off limits?'
Clearly, when they make uncomfortable reading for millionaire politicians in their Dartmouth Park bubbles.
What's "uncomfortable reading" about fighting the Nazis? In your world clearly it is, but in that world pointing out that Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering despite being the same age is " a smear"
"uncomfortable reading" = fighting Nazis "A smear" = pointing out that the editors father avoided doing so.
Why not go the whole hog and get in bed with the posters on here who have a long history of complaining about "aliens in the East End" and have done?
You're foaming at the mouth now tim.
'Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering'
Did he really? I must have missed that nugget in the Telegraph obituary.
If Dacre's father was 19 in 1944 he's have been called up a year before. He might have got exemption if he was a student, but by then it would have been unlikely.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
"It's your choice to go on a website and attack as unpatriotic a man who fought the Nazis"
Please feel free to highlight that post tim.
TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 264 12:22PM 'Are backgrounds suddenly off limits?'
Clearly, when they make uncomfortable reading for millionaire politicians in their Dartmouth Park bubbles.
What's "uncomfortable reading" about fighting the Nazis? In your world clearly it is, but in that world pointing out that Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering despite being the same age is " a smear"
"uncomfortable reading" = fighting Nazis "A smear" = pointing out that the editors father avoided doing so.
Why not go the whole hog and get in bed with the posters on here who have a long history of complaining about "aliens in the East End" and have done?
You're foaming at the mouth now tim.
'Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering'
Did he really? I must have missed that nugget in the Telegraph obituary.
If Dacre's father was 19 in 1944 he's have been called up a year before. He might have got exemption if he was a student, but by then it would have been unlikely.
With only the text of a newspaper article to go on, who knows. Perhaps he did serve but didn't consider his time as a conscript worthy of mention in an obituary? Or was refused on medical grounds. All perfectly valid.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
An impressive lady. A few years before that, Ataturk's daughter, Sabiha Gökçen, became perhaps the world's first female fighter pilot, although she did not get to see much combat.
I've read a fair bit about Ataturk, but I just can't quite work him out. One of the problems is trying to get through all the layers of mythology that surrounds him. There's something odd when a country institutes a law to stop a previous ruler from being criticised (outlawing 'insults to his memory') ...
I think its bleedin obvious why he volunteered in the war - He was a jew and hated Nazis ? Not that he loved Britain( he might not have hated it of course) or that the terms and conditions were good.
@Josias - in case you are still around. I am reading a book called The Old Ways at the moment. From what you've said about yourself, if you haven't already got it, it may be one you'd enjoy:
I saw Bojo live at the Olympics parade with a reported 1 million spectators on the streets,not sure how many could see/hear him. I was very close to the stage outside the Palace and had good views. There is no doubt he is extremely popular and got a huge reception,the group near me were from far and wide,not Londoncentric. I am sure most constituencies would elect him,but,if in oposition,it is a long hard grind as leader. I think Boris just wants to be popular and enjoy himself,which we all aspire to,not sure he is PM material. I would still vote for him all the same,as he would add a bit of enthusiasm to our politics.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
While the Great Patriot was going up to Oxford to serve her Mr Whippy apprenticeship and Peter Dacre was doing essential war work keeping up the morale of the chorus line, [Ralph Miliband]
...aware of the fact that many of his Belgian comrades were engaged in the war against Fascism and traumatised by the absence of his mother and sister, had volunteered (for naval service), using Laski's influence to override the bureaucracy.
Ah you clearly miss the old gal, what a hollow pointless life you lead now that she's gone.
I have no real interest in Miliband senior's war record, I am however intrigued that old labourites like yourself just can't let Thatcher go. It's bizarre - you're twinned with Osborne.
Why bring her in at all ? It just struck me as strange thing to do. I suspect if we go through lots of families we'll find lots of unusual things re wartime records. Miliband senior served in the Navy, good for him, so did 1million others.
Thought I'd put in a visit on this day when a politicians dead father has managed to upstage what has been so far a tediously uninspiring Tory event from the grave.
What amuses me is a party that deployed Brown, Balls, Whelan, Draper, McBride, Campbell, Maguire, Prescott, Simon, Watson etc etc to spew venom all over the media at anyone who dared oppose them for nearly two decades gets so exercised over a rather purile, irrelevent and self defeating attack by a newspaper upon a dead father of a politician. The man has been dead for 20 years. Who cares? Its his son they should be focussing on.
Clearly it is unpleasant for their leader and he has rightly refuted the comments but I didn't see him or anyone else in Labour denouncing all the shenanigans of those mentioned above over all those years. People in glass houses, double standards, the same old hypocrisy and all that.
'Outraged of Islington', 'Disgusted of Manchester Central' and 'Angered of Doncaster North' really just doesn't have a ring to it.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
It's made these threads even more repellant than usual when a subject leads the various tribes on here to get all indignant and charge at each other on their righteous high horses.
To think only a few days ago we have a 'debate' where people were complimenting each others argument whilst still arguing their case.
Tomorrow will be diabolical as well with Cammo centre-stage.
Unreadable today. At least I've got and will get some work done!
I think its bleedin obvious why he volunteered in the war - He was a jew and hated Nazis ? Not that he loved Britain( he might not have hated it of course) or that the terms and conditions were good.
And have we found out yet why Dacre (who hates British institutions such as the BBC and the NHS) gypsies, trade unionists and homosexuals comes from a line that didn't fight Nazis and chose to edit a paper with a history of anti semitism and support of the Nazis?
See how this works?
I don't know much about that really . Just pointing out the obvious when the theories of why Miliband Snr wanted to join up were getting more bizarre
@Josias - in case you are still around. I am reading a book called The Old Ways at the moment. From what you've said about yourself, if you haven't already got it, it may be one you'd enjoy:
The author is based in Cambridge too. I wondered if it was you, in fact! But I am pretty sure it's not given what you have said about your work.
Nope, it's not by me, sadly. I've seen it in the bookshops, but have yet to buy it. I've got loads of walking books, and the prose didn't exactly grip me.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
They weren't guaranteed being sent to a place of relative safety but it was kind of implicit in the offer. These were 18-20 year olds who would otherwise be exempted from conscription due to their acceptance of a place at a university. They were generally used to back up logistic and intelligence support from the UK rather than in front-line fighting. My father always said that the initial expectation was that he would only need to serve for a single year ("the war will be over by Christmas") but in the event served for nearly three years before taking up his university place.
It's made these threads even more repellant than usual when a subject leads the various tribes on here to get all indignant and charge at each other on their righteous high horses.
To think only a few days ago we have a 'debate' where people were complimenting each others argument whilst still arguing their case.
Tomorrow will be diabolical as well with Cammo centre-stage.
Unreadable today. At least I've got and will get some work done!
That's the Tim effect!
Well we all look forward to your betting posts, for the comedy, and your YouGov analysis, with particular emphasis on the influence of landlines upon it
We look forward to you ceasing to diminish this site by stopping sneering and sneering and trying to imitate your master, McBride. Try getting a job instead.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
or maybe he just hated Germany more.
He might have received an encrypted signal from his Moscow controller, Mr. Brooke. By all accounts, the LSE was even worse than Cambridge at the time.
Only Oxford and Manchester remained above legitimate suspicion.
I think its bleedin obvious why he volunteered in the war - He was a jew and hated Nazis ? Not that he loved Britain( he might not have hated it of course) or that the terms and conditions were good.
And have we found out yet why Dacre, who hates British institutions such as the BBC and the NHS, gypsies, trade unionists and homosexuals comes from a line that didn't fight Nazis and chose to edit a paper with a history of anti semitism and support of the Nazis?
See how this works?
I am not sure that any leader of a major British political party has told us that either Paul Dacre or his father were a major influence on his politics.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
They weren't guaranteed being sent to a place of relative safety but it was kind of implicit in the offer. These were 18-20 year olds who would otherwise be exempted from conscription due to their acceptance of a place at a university. They were generally used to back up logistic and intelligence support from the UK rather than in front-line fighting. My father always said that the initial expectation was that he would only need to serve for a single year ("the war will be over by Christmas") but in the event served for nearly three years before taking up his university place.
Treat the following with care: The perils of combat after D-Day are very overstated. ISTR that of all the British soldiers sent to France, and later Germany, only 1 in 3 got to fire their gun (or weapon) in anger. Most were performing logistical and other tasks. Basically, we swamped the defenders. For the Americans, the figures were higher than 1 in 3.
I've had a quick look, but I can't find an obvious source for this in any of my books. Can anyone confirm my (perhaps faulty) memory?
Needless to say, the guys who went over there were performing vital roles to keep those at the front going. So many roles - many dangerous - pass relatively unheralded.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
or maybe he just hated Germany more.
He might have received an encrypted signal from his Moscow controller, Mr. Brooke. By all accounts, the LSE was even worse than Cambridge at the time.
Only Oxford and Manchester remained true to the cause.
given the number of posts in russian you've treated to this week Avery, I'm a bit suspicious about you too товарищ. ;-)
Blimey. Hoping to catch up with what happened at the conference. Hunt? Pickles? Gove? (Well, I can guess what Gove said...).
As it is I've learned a lot about Miliband v Dacre and breadmakers.
Miliband stands up to Nazi supporting newspaper/Dave doesn't know price of a loaf/Tory conference disappears.
Not a bad outcome
Just a thought, but have you, or any of the other leftwing smear merchants who have spent most of today having fun with the Mail and the Blackshirts ever, even once, breathed a single word of criticism about the Guardian's support for the Confederacy during the American Civil War? Or does providing moral support to a vilely racist criminal regime only permanently discredit a media group when the group supports a position you disagree with?
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
@Josias - in case you are still around. I am reading a book called The Old Ways at the moment. From what you've said about yourself, if you haven't already got it, it may be one you'd enjoy:
The author is based in Cambridge too. I wondered if it was you, in fact! But I am pretty sure it's not given what you have said about your work.
Nope, it's not by me, sadly. I've seen it in the bookshops, but have yet to buy it. I've got loads of walking books, and the prose didn't exactly grip me.
Would you recommend it?
I am thoroughly enjoying it. It's not about walking per se, it's kind of about what walking *means*. It chimes with the way I see the landscape etc in that it links now to all that has gone before, and how walking brings you closer to that.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
They weren't guaranteed being sent to a plthree years before taking up his university place.
Treat the following with care: The perils of combat after D-Day are very overstated. ISTR that of all the British soldiers sent to France, and later Germany, only 1 in 3 got to fire their gun (or weapon) in anger. Most were performing logistical and other tasks. Basically, we swamped the defenders. For the Americans, the figures were higher than 1 in 3.
I've had a quick look, but I can't find an obvious source for this in any of my books. Can anyone confirm my (perhaps faulty) memory?
Needless to say, the guys who went over there were performing vital roles to keep those at the front going. So many roles - many dangerous - pass relatively unheralded.
largely correct JJ . In WW2 the UK was running out of front line infantry in 1944 and 45. casualty rates in the heaviest fighting matched levels in WW1 of the Eastern front. The UK deployed only 30 ish divisions in WW2 against circa 80 in WW1 but with a similar level of troops conscripted. The manpower was eaten up in tail units and the airforce. the Germans and Russians having fought intensive battles for longer had much more efficient units thereby releasing more manpower.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
or maybe he just hated Germany more.
He might have received an encrypted signal from his Moscow controller, Mr. Brooke. By all accounts, the LSE was even worse than Cambridge at the time.
Only Oxford and Manchester remained true to the cause.
given the number of posts in russian you've treated to this week Avery, I'm a bit suspicious about you too товарищ. ;-)
I dealt with the KGB early on in my travels to the USSR, Mr. Brooke.
The way to do was to telephone them at their HQ in Lubyanka Square and start the conversation: "The blonde, Natasha, I met last night in the bar of The Metropole Hotel. I seem to have lost her telephone number. Please can you look it up in the files for me?".
Re Millibands father, My father served in Egypt as part of the signals corp,he did not say much about his experiencce,but the following are about alI remember:- He hated "Gypos",Egyptians. He hated Churchill. But his biggest hate was " Bomber Harris" I have no problems with his beliefs,and i have my own,not at all influened by my Dad,on these matters,but agree with him,I am basically a pacifist. My worst feelings were in the opening views of "Shock and Awe",and thought never again,to Labour. So will never ever vote Labour,not because of Ed,( or his Dad) but because of T Blair.
If children inherit their parents' politics, what went wrong with Dan Hodges and Toby Young?
Well I certainly I didn't inherit my fathers (his later life politics anyway) and my elder son hasn't inherited mine. I'm happier about my daughter's and my younger son's though.
@Josias - in case you are still around. I am reading a book called The Old Ways at the moment. From what you've said about yourself, if you haven't already got it, it may be one you'd enjoy:
The author is based in Cambridge too. I wondered if it was you, in fact! But I am pretty sure it's not given what you have said about your work.
Nope, it's not by me, sadly. I've seen it in the bookshops, but have yet to buy it. I've got loads of walking books, and the prose didn't exactly grip me.
Would you recommend it?
I am thoroughly enjoying it. It's not about walking per se, it's kind of about what walking *means*. It chimes with the way I see the landscape etc in that it links now to all that has gone before, and how walking brings you closer to that.
Ah okay. That's what I thought, and that's the sort of book I usually avoid. But because of your recommendation, it's in my basket. ;-)
I find people tend to overanalyse walking. I do it. I love it. If I have a mystical/magical moment, great. What's more to say about motivations?
Perhaps the pinnacle of tosserificness was reached with the following Will Self quote:
I've taken to long-distance walking as a means of dissolving the mechanised matrix which compresses the space-time continuum, and decouples humans from physical geography.
Blimey. Hoping to catch up with what happened at the conference. Hunt? Pickles? Gove? (Well, I can guess what Gove said...).
As it is I've learned a lot about Miliband v Dacre and breadmakers.
Miliband stands up to Nazi supporting newspaper/Dave doesn't know price of a loaf/Tory conference disappears.
Not a bad outcome
Just a thought, but have you, or any of the other leftwing smear merchants who have spent most of today having fun with the Mail and the Blackshirts ever, even once, breathed a single word of criticism about the Guardian's support for the Confederacy during the American Civil War? Or does providing moral support to a vilely racist criminal regime only permanently discredit a media group when the group supports a position you disagree with?
Hypocrites.
Are you sure? I thought the Lancashire cotton sworkers, despite their hardships, supported the North.
Blimey. Hoping to catch up with what happened at the conference. Hunt? Pickles? Gove? (Well, I can guess what Gove said...).
As it is I've learned a lot about Miliband v Dacre and breadmakers.
Miliband stands up to Nazi supporting newspaper/Dave doesn't know price of a loaf/Tory conference disappears.
Not a bad outcome
Just a thought, but have you, or any of the other leftwing smear merchants who have spent most of today having fun with the Mail and the Blackshirts ever, even once, breathed a single word of criticism about the Guardian's support for the Confederacy during the American Civil War? Or does providing moral support to a vilely racist criminal regime only permanently discredit a media group when the group supports a position you disagree with?
Hypocrites.
Are you sure? I thought the Lancashire cotton sworkers, despite their hardships, supported the North.
The Lancashire cotton workers did. The Manchester Guardian (as it then was) supported the Confederacy however.
Before 1989 the divide between the good guys and bad guys was clear, because the bad guys were out to do us in. At its most extreme, the Cold War was about fear, about nuclear brinkmanship, fallout shelters, cruise missiles, five minutes to midnight and The Day After. And the Cold War filtered through to everyday politics. Labour wanted unilateral disarmament, and some of its members were all too willing to excuse communism and play the role of useful idiot for the tyrants of Moscow. By the time Labour came to power in 1997, the Cold War was already fading from memory and no one was interested in whether a Cabinet minister had thought it acceptable years before to take Communist money for a jolly to Cuba, or had dabbled with political groups whose directing strands could be followed to the other side of the Iron Curtain. Now it has all but disappeared from common memory http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100239056/whether-he-hated-britain-or-not-ralph-miliband-was-one-of-the-cold-wars-bad-guys/
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
or maybe he just hated Germany more.
He might have received an encrypted signal from his Moscow controller, Mr. Brooke. By all accounts, the LSE was even worse than Cambridge at the time.
Only Oxford and Manchester remained true to the cause.
given the number of posts in russian you've treated to this week Avery, I'm a bit suspicious about you too товарищ. ;-)
I dealt with the KGB early on in my travels to the USSR, Mr. Brooke.
The way to do was to telephone them at their HQ in Lubyanka Square and start the conversation: "The blonde, Natasha, I met last night in the bar of The Metropole Hotel. I seem to have lost her telephone number. Please can you look it up in the files for me?".
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Treat the following with care: The perils of combat after D-Day are very overstated. ISTR that of all the British soldiers sent to France, and later Germany, only 1 in 3 got to fire their gun (or weapon) in anger. Most were performing logistical and other tasks. Basically, we swamped the defenders. For the Americans, the figures were higher than 1 in 3.
I've had a quick look, but I can't find an obvious source for this in any of my books. Can anyone confirm my (perhaps faulty) memory?
Needless to say, the guys who went over there were performing vital roles to keep those at the front going. So many roles - many dangerous - pass relatively unheralded.
One of my grandfather's was an army chef in WW2, he served in North Africa, and after Normandy (ISTR).
I can't believe how stupid Ed has been ranting and raving about the Daily Mail's critique of a prominent Marxist, even if it did happen to be his father. Ed needed a period of quiet after spouting far-left orthodoxies at the Labour conference. He didn't need to advertise the fact that his world outlook was formed in the rarefied Bolshevik La-la land of Hampstead in the 1970s. Ed has made himself appear aloof and out of touch - bit of an oddball!
The daily mail is an absolute disgrace. Even its own readers are panning it.
It's exactly the same as when The Sun went crazy over Gordon misspelling the name of a dead solider. In the end it helped Gordon. I think at the last election Gordon was liked almost as much as Dave.
Josias, "Perhaps the pinnacle of tosserificness was reached with the following Will Self quote:
I've taken to long-distance walking as a means of dissolving the mechanised matrix which compresses the space-time continuum, and decouples humans from physical geography."
Well sort of understand,I am more in to long distance fellrunning,and without doubt the effect on my mental state is enormous. I can go for a long run,and Mrs Jayfdee asks,"How was it",and I reply actually can't remember too much,I get lost in my own mind and solve all my problems,and only wake up at the end of the run. Rather like driving to work,you never remember the journey. Too much posting for a semi lurker,back to the red wine.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Aeroflot hasn't improved the ratio much either.
I often wondered why the top level in their frequent flyer programme was branded "Certain Death ".
Evening all and just catching up on the contributions to this thread. Personally I am uncomfortable about anyone criticising the actions of a deceased man 70+ years ago. Perfectly fair to talk about his political beliefs and then imply they had a profound effect on his son(s) if that is the case and can be seen by comments they have made or behaviour they have exhibited. I don't rate Bland the Younger but if someone had a go at my late father, I would rile up so I cannot blame either Miliband brother for doing so.
The circle I can't square is Mr Dacre's part in this. Didn't he big up Gordon Brown when all the rest of us knew he was a piece of useless dog poo? Young Miliband was one half of Brown's chosen apostles (along with Mr Yvette Cooper) so surely Dacre and Young Miliband would have had a great deal of interaction 2007-2010.
What has Young Miliband done to infuriate Dacre? His policies are pretty much similar to those Brown has peddled in Scotland for the past 30 years.
I'll make no bones about it, I'm not keen on Ed Milliband. Don't like his politics, don't like the fact that he was part of that nutter Brown's gang, don't like his manner, in fact, everything about him pretty much bugs me.
I do like the fact that he's come out fighting for his old man today, though. I think most people who take an interest in politics will know that Ralph Milliband was a serious Marxist, and that the Milliband kids got their political leanings from him. Milliband has gone up in my estimation for his spirited defence of his dad, and he should fight as hard as he can in that defence. There are many reasons to dislike Ed Milliband, but his dad ain't one of them.
The Mail is a shite paper, and it's website is only good for looking at pics of Doutzen Kroes and Dita Von Teese in stockings, or whatever no-mark American sleb is in rehab this week. I think the Mail might get a bloody nose over this.
The daily mail is an absolute disgrace. Even its own readers are panning it.
It's exactly the same as when The Sun went crazy over Gordon misspelling the name of a dead solider. In the end it helped Gordon. I think at the last election Gordon was liked almost as much as Dave.
I think it's worse than the Sun's soldiers letter thing.
It's backfired more spectacularly for the Daily Hurrah for The Blackshirts than it did for Murdoch.
And, blimey, think how it will be solidifying Ed Miliband's election-winning coalition of 2010 Lab + Lib Dems.
I'll make no bones about it, I'm not keen on Ed Milliband. Don't like his politics, don't like the fact that he was part of that nutter Brown's gang, don't like his manner, in fact, everything about him pretty much bugs me.
I do like the fact that he's come out fighting for his old man today, though. I think most people who take an interest in politics will know that Ralph Milliband was a serious Marxist, and that the Milliband kids got their political leanings from him. Milliband has gone up in my estimation for his spirited defence of his dad, and he should fight as hard as he can in that defence. There are many reasons to dislike Ed Milliband, but his dad ain't one of them.
The Mail is a shite paper, and it's website is only good for looking at pics of Doutzen Kroes and Dita Von Teese in stockings, or whatever no-mark American sleb is in rehab this week. I think the Mail might get a bloody nose over this.
TFS I doubt it will change much, the political anoraks will huff and puff but by next week everyone else will be more interested in who's out next in Strictly,
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Comrade Alan! You should know that was during the dark days of 1941 when the Fascists took the Motherland by surprise! Fortunately by the time of Kursk (1943), the Red Air Force had virtually complete air superiority!
Next you'll be saying the Spitfire was a better plane than the Yakovlev Yak-3!
TFS I doubt it will change much, the political anoraks will huff and puff but by next week everyone else will be more interested in who's out next in Strictly,
Perhaps the one lasting effect will be a rapprochement between the Millibrothers; it'd be a pretty unusual fraternal relationship that wouldn't be cemented by defending your dead dad.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Aeroflot hasn't improved the ratio much either.
I often wondered why the top level in their frequent flyer programme was branded "Certain Death ".
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
or maybe he just hated Germany more.
He might have received an encrypted signal from his Moscow controller, Mr. Brooke. By all accounts, the LSE was even worse than Cambridge at the time.
Only Oxford and Manchester remained true to the cause.
given the number of posts in russian you've treated to this week Avery, I'm a bit suspicious about you too товарищ. ;-)
I dealt with the KGB early on in my travels to the USSR, Mr. Brooke.
The way to do was to telephone them at their HQ in Lubyanka Square and start the conversation: "The blonde, Natasha, I met last night in the bar of The Metropole Hotel. I seem to have lost her telephone number. Please can you look it up in the files for me?".
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Would women be conscripted too, with a narrowing of the age band to enable more men and women to stay at home?
Great question Morris. We don't allow women to fight on the frontline (AIUI) so I suspect only men would be conscripted.
A vague memory, but I seem to remember that attempts to reintroduce conscription back in the late 70s/early 80s in the US were struck down because they only applied to men. I could well be wrong though.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Comrade Alan! You should know that was during the dark days of 1941 when the Fascists took the Motherland by surprise! Fortunately by the time of Kursk (1943), the Red Air Force had virtually complete air superiority!
Next you'll be saying the Spitfire was a better plane than the Yakovlev Yak-3!
Sunil you prize Zek. The Red Air Force only established air superiority post Kursk and that had little to do with their proficiency and everything to do with the RAF and USAAF taking control of the skies over Germany. The eastern front remained a training area for the Luftwaffe while the russkis tried to crack the conundrum of why aircraft with no maintenance wouldn't stay in the sky.
I can't see what Miliband is huffing and puffing about. So his father hated the oldest and most established capitalist nation on earth, which was also the embodiment of the class system. I'd have thought the Left would regard this as an accolade.
Are you sure? I thought the Lancashire cotton sworkers, despite their hardships, supported the North.
Let us not forget that Liverpool was the home port of the Confederacy, and a hotbed of spies and intrigue during the Civil War. The last act of the war was the surrender of the CSS Shenandoah to the Lord Mayor of Liverpool on 6th November 1865, six months after Appomattox...
She arrived at the Mersey bar flying no flag, and was initially refused admittance. So for the last time the Palmetto flag was raised, and the Shenandoah sailed splendidly into Herculaneum Dock, where the flag was finally lowered.
Much to the chagrin of the American government, who wanted them treated as pirates, the crew were immediately discharged.
Does anyone here know the price of a loaf of bread?
No. I'd guess about a quid, but I couldn't be certain about that. Weird, as despite a recent promotion making me feel otherwise, temporarily, I've always been poor.
Milk I do know seems to have gone down in price in recent years at least, as I'm always picking up 4 pints for a pound.
I can't see what Miliband is huffing and puffing about. So his father hated the oldest and most established capitalist nation on earth, which was also the embodiment of the class system. I'd have thought the Left would regard this as an accolade.
Comrade Alan! You should know that was during the dark days of 1941 when the Fascists took the Motherland by surprise! Fortunately by the time of Kursk (1943), the Red Air Force had virtually complete air superiority!
Next you'll be saying the Spitfire was a better plane than the Yakovlev Yak-3!
Sunil you prize Zek. The Red Air Force only established air superiority post Kursk and that had little to do with their proficiency and everything to do with the RAF and USAAF taking control of the skies over Germany. The eastern front remained a training area for the Luftwaffe while the russkis tried to crack the conundrum of why aircraft with no maintenance wouldn't stay in the sky.
Comrade Alan!
"[The Yak-3] proved a formidable dogfighter. Marcel Albert, the official top-scoring World War II French ace, who flew the Yak in USSR with the Normandie-Niémen Group, considered it a superior aircraft to the P-51D Mustang and the Supermarine Spitfire.[3]"
Does anyone here know the price of a loaf of bread?
Between 50p for at sell off date loaf to £5 for artisan bread.
Suddenly inspired to take up breadmaking,just enjoyed foraging for apples and blackberries,so breadmaking next. Thats it no more semi lurker posting this week.
Mr. Labour, as an aside, it's interesting to consider how conscription would work if we faced such a need.
Good evening, Comrades!
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
Parteigenosse Prasannan
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
Aeroflot hasn't improved the ratio much either.
Once had an internal flight with Aeorflot in Soviet times. We "landed" so hard in Baku that the light fittings crashed to the floor and the plane bounced several feet back into the air. We then had to stay in our seats until the "pilot" (I use the word loosely) and his crew had left the plane because their time was more important.
Like most things I saw in the Soviet Union I found this very funny, something that did not always endear me to the locals.
Comments
I do not know how it would work now, but I'd have thought all shoulders to the wheel.
Is there a list on any official Labour website?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-01/electoral-commission-orders-recount-for-seat-of-fairfax/4992130
'Dacres father managed to avoid volunteering'
Did he really? I must have missed that nugget in the Telegraph obituary.
It's made these threads even more repellant than usual when a subject leads the various tribes on here to get all indignant and charge at each other on their righteous high horses.
To think only a few days ago we have a 'debate' where people were complimenting each others argument whilst still arguing their case.
Tomorrow will be diabolical as well with Cammo centre-stage.
Unreadable today. At least I've got and will get some work done!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-professor-ralph-miliband-1438110.html
Strange,The Independent missed out the bit about storming the Normandy beaches.
Lydia Litvyak was perhaps the most successful of thousands of female fighter pilots in the Red Air Force fighting against the sexist Nazis during the Great Patriotic War. Her victory tally was 12 before being tragically shot down during the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lydia_Litvyak
The Daily Mail opened that can of worms and they should not be surprised of the responses to it.
Can you explain why Ralph Miliband volunteered to join the navy if he hated Britain so much?
Probably for the same reason my father, who was born in the same year as Ralph Miliband, volunteered for the RNVR.
The Navy offered a very good deal to young men who had gained a place at university. If you deferred taking up your place and volunteered for the RNVR, the Navy would pay your tuition fees and subsistence costs (for a reduced length Masters degree course of 2 years) when the war ended.
And Milband Senior was a signals analyst with the RNVR so will not have done a lot of stormin' Norman beaches. A bit like my father who spent his time servicing Fleet Air Arm aircraft from the relative safety of home based airfields.
Erich Hartmann tally 352, the highest all time ace. Nearly all the top aces served in the Luftwaffe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabiha_Gökçen
I've read a fair bit about Ataturk, but I just can't quite work him out. One of the problems is trying to get through all the layers of mythology that surrounds him. There's something odd when a country institutes a law to stop a previous ruler from being criticised (outlawing 'insults to his memory') ...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Old-Ways-Journey-Foot/dp/0241143810
The author is based in Cambridge too. I wondered if it was you, in fact! But I am pretty sure it's not given what you have said about your work.
I was very close to the stage outside the Palace and had good views. There is no doubt he is extremely popular and got a huge reception,the group near me were from far and wide,not Londoncentric.
I am sure most constituencies would elect him,but,if in oposition,it is a long hard grind as leader. I think Boris just wants to be popular and enjoy himself,which we all aspire to,not sure he is PM material.
I would still vote for him all the same,as he would add a bit of enthusiasm to our politics.
What amuses me is a party that deployed Brown, Balls, Whelan, Draper, McBride, Campbell, Maguire, Prescott, Simon, Watson etc etc to spew venom all over the media at anyone who dared oppose them for nearly two decades gets so exercised over a rather purile, irrelevent and self defeating attack by a newspaper upon a dead father of a politician. The man has been dead for 20 years. Who cares? Its his son they should be focussing on.
Clearly it is unpleasant for their leader and he has rightly refuted the comments but I didn't see him or anyone else in Labour denouncing all the shenanigans of those mentioned above over all those years. People in glass houses, double standards, the same old hypocrisy and all that.
'Outraged of Islington', 'Disgusted of Manchester Central' and 'Angered of Doncaster North' really just doesn't have a ring to it.
or maybe he just hated Germany more.
Would you recommend it?
As it is I've learned a lot about Miliband v Dacre and breadmakers.
Only Oxford and Manchester remained above legitimate suspicion.
The perils of combat after D-Day are very overstated. ISTR that of all the British soldiers sent to France, and later Germany, only 1 in 3 got to fire their gun (or weapon) in anger. Most were performing logistical and other tasks. Basically, we swamped the defenders. For the Americans, the figures were higher than 1 in 3.
I've had a quick look, but I can't find an obvious source for this in any of my books. Can anyone confirm my (perhaps faulty) memory?
Needless to say, the guys who went over there were performing vital roles to keep those at the front going. So many roles - many dangerous - pass relatively unheralded.
Hypocrites.
But the sexist Nazis didn't have any female aces though, did they? (Hanna Reitsch aside, though she didn't really see any combat).
The way to do was to telephone them at their HQ in Lubyanka Square and start the conversation: "The blonde, Natasha, I met last night in the bar of The Metropole Hotel. I seem to have lost her telephone number. Please can you look it up in the files for me?".
You were never troubled after that, Mr. Brooke.
My father served in Egypt as part of the signals corp,he did not say much about his experiencce,but the following are about alI remember:-
He hated "Gypos",Egyptians.
He hated Churchill.
But his biggest hate was " Bomber Harris"
I have no problems with his beliefs,and i have my own,not at all influened by my Dad,on these matters,but agree with him,I am basically a pacifist.
My worst feelings were in the opening views of "Shock and Awe",and thought never again,to Labour.
So will never ever vote Labour,not because of Ed,( or his Dad) but because of T Blair.
I'm happier about my daughter's and my younger son's though.
I find people tend to overanalyse walking. I do it. I love it. If I have a mystical/magical moment, great. What's more to say about motivations?
Perhaps the pinnacle of tosserificness was reached with the following Will Self quote:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100239056/whether-he-hated-britain-or-not-ralph-miliband-was-one-of-the-cold-wars-bad-guys/
Are you sure? I thought the Lancashire cotton sworkers, despite their hardships, supported the North.
Only Liberal Democrats would use such a term and then only in the company of senior party officials.
http://www.great-victory1945.ru/za_rodinu_za_stalina.jpg
Attacks Ed Miliband, whose politics they disagree with, by smearing his father as hating Britain.
You. Couldn't. Make. It. Up.
"There are no Russian tanks in Baghdad!"
The Luftwaffe employed its lady pilots in support roles, thereby freeing up male fliers.Despite the huge tallies German aces scored on the Eastern Front the Soviet state remains the single biggest destroyer of soviet pilots and planes. The USSR lost about 50% of its aircraft through poor maintenanace and negligent pilot training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z53RADsjE4I
Not sure how many people he killed.
It's exactly the same as when The Sun went crazy over Gordon misspelling the name of a dead solider. In the end it helped Gordon. I think at the last election Gordon was liked almost as much as Dave.
"Perhaps the pinnacle of tosserificness was reached with the following Will Self quote:
I've taken to long-distance walking as a means of dissolving the mechanised matrix which compresses the space-time continuum, and decouples humans from physical geography."
Well sort of understand,I am more in to long distance fellrunning,and without doubt the effect on my mental state is enormous.
I can go for a long run,and Mrs Jayfdee asks,"How was it",and I reply actually can't remember too much,I get lost in my own mind and solve all my problems,and only wake up at the end of the run. Rather like driving to work,you never remember the journey.
Too much posting for a semi lurker,back to the red wine.
"Critique"? "Happened to be"?!
You must be Jeremy Hunt.
The circle I can't square is Mr Dacre's part in this. Didn't he big up Gordon Brown when all the rest of us knew he was a piece of useless dog poo? Young Miliband was one half of Brown's chosen apostles (along with Mr Yvette Cooper) so surely Dacre and Young Miliband would have had a great deal of interaction 2007-2010.
What has Young Miliband done to infuriate Dacre? His policies are pretty much similar to those Brown has peddled in Scotland for the past 30 years.
I do like the fact that he's come out fighting for his old man today, though.
I think most people who take an interest in politics will know that Ralph Milliband was a serious Marxist, and that the Milliband kids got their political leanings from him. Milliband has gone up in my estimation for his spirited defence of his dad, and he should fight as hard as he can in that defence. There are many reasons to dislike Ed Milliband, but his dad ain't one of them.
The Mail is a shite paper, and it's website is only good for looking at pics of Doutzen Kroes and Dita Von Teese in stockings, or whatever no-mark American sleb is in rehab this week. I think the Mail might get a bloody nose over this.
It's backfired more spectacularly for the Daily Hurrah for The Blackshirts than it did for Murdoch.
And, blimey, think how it will be solidifying Ed Miliband's election-winning coalition of 2010 Lab + Lib Dems.
I hope Cousin Seth is not connected to these events:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10346822/Conservative-Keith-Brookes-found-not-guilty-of-sex-act-after-sunbathing-naked.html
Next you'll be saying the Spitfire was a better plane than the Yakovlev Yak-3!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-3
'Ed has made himself appear aloof and out of touch - bit of an oddball!'
Makes you wonder why such a high minded individual didn't resign when he was part of Brown's inner circle and knew exactly what McBride was doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQEjwKs_hpg
But Elton should have known that Nikita is a man's name in Russia.
Just as Sunil is a girl's name in Warwickshire.
Croydon South
Mid Worcestershire
Hants NE
Cambs SE
Tonbridge & Malling
Wealden
Reigate (if Crispin Blunt isn't reselected)
If Cameron had guessed I bet he would've gotten closer than me. And I'm a prole.
She arrived at the Mersey bar flying no flag, and was initially refused admittance. So for the last time the Palmetto flag was raised, and the Shenandoah sailed splendidly into Herculaneum Dock, where the flag was finally lowered.
Much to the chagrin of the American government, who wanted them treated as pirates, the crew were immediately discharged.
Milk I do know seems to have gone down in price in recent years at least, as I'm always picking up 4 pints for a pound.
Capitalism isn't working?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24358858
Tories planning plan B.
Ad Hom attacks on EdM have got much more difficult.
"[The Yak-3] proved a formidable dogfighter. Marcel Albert, the official top-scoring World War II French ace, who flew the Yak in USSR with the Normandie-Niémen Group, considered it a superior aircraft to the P-51D Mustang and the Supermarine Spitfire.[3]"
Thats it no more semi lurker posting this week.
Like most things I saw in the Soviet Union I found this very funny, something that did not always endear me to the locals.
"Das gute Sunil" is a popular brand in Germany:
http://www.derhausmann.de/out/pictures/generated/product/1/2500_2500_100/b6139.jpg