politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nicola Sturgeon should go for a second Independence referendum
Comments
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Not just the governorship; both houses of the state legislature, by 2:1 majorities (or very nearly).dugarbandier said:0 -
The Euro.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, so what would Scotland use?
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Mr Dancer, they can abandon basket-case Sterling and join the €zone, which is going from strength to strength.0
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The SNP wants independence from England.TonyE said:
I think they are ideologically, but in truth it isn't going to happen for the very reasons it did not happen before.TOPPING said:
I presume you agree that the SNP remains committed to independence. If so then when would be the optimal time to go for it again?TonyE said:This strikes me as an article which simply talks up a non starter for an ulterior purpose - soft Brexit (or remaining in the Single market in perpetuity, until that becomes 'Associate membership).
The chances of Sturgeon calling indy ref 2 must be vanishingly low now, because while there is always going to be a certain amount of pain with constitutional upheaval, it has to be within an acceptable limit. Finding yourself adrift from both the EU and Sterling would be the perfect storm for Scotland. To join the EU from outside (for surely the Spanish and others would block any retention of membership), requires a currency, a move to a 3% deficit limit, and all with the object of joining the Euro, a currency which has proven itself a busted flush for all but a handful of nations.
So I see all this talk of Indy Ref 2 as nothing more than 'continuity remain' simply moving their tanks onto a different lawn.
Perhaps when there is existing flux within the Union. Perhaps not when things become more settled.
IF there is going to be a moment when Indy ref 2 looms large, it will be once the deal is done with Brussels and we are out and therefore the joining of the EU is matter for Scotland alone as a new entrant. The SNP does not really want 'independence' - it wants subjugation into anything other than the Union - and the EU is a good enough alternative.0 -
Surely the question is whether they want to be dominated by London, Brussels or to go-it-alone? As the third option isn't being offered, it's probably racism against the British.0
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Except they won't. All the polling evidence suggests that Scots prefer the UK to the EU and would vote No again, possibly by a bigger margin. Where are these No voters from last time who will change their vote for the possibility of getting to stay in the EU?nielh said:F**k it. The Scots should do it and get on with it.
The English need to wake up to the fact that brexit means break up of the UK. People don't realise that.
'Brexit will break up the UK' belongs in the same dustbin as 'Brexit will cause a war'.0 -
The mood music from Brussels is hugely important. Last time round the EU was very forbidding about Scotland joining in its own right, because it wanted an intact UK in the EU. Pre-Brexit, the departure of Scotland diminished the EU, because IndyScotland joining in its own right was problematic, because Spain and Basques etc. Post Brexit Scotland joining extends the EU again. In addition, Scotland deserves a reward for being sturdy Remain voters, and rumpUK deserves punishment for Brexit by the loss of Scotland. Those arguments work post actual Brexit. Indyref2 during Brexit/Art 50 negotiations would potentially draw huge hostility from Brussels if Brussels is secretly hoping to kill off Brexit, and I assume it is (because clearly that hope is alive among Remainers here and I assume they are talking up their chances to Brussels).
Second point - Brexit can be spun to kill the currency argument which was what sunk Yes last time round, because the answer is the euro. That may be a really bad answer, and the stages from here to there may be really difficult, but it is ultimately compulsory, which closes down the debate.
Thirdly, HM the Q is 90. Nobody likes Charles. Republicanism is strong in Scotland. The best situation for Indyref2 is Brexit happens and it becomes obviously a financial disaster for the UK, Charles succeeds to throne, oil price back up. It is not impossible that all those facts would obtain in 2021, enabling SNP to seek a mandate in the 2021Holyrood election.0 -
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one
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TBF tweeting that his internet access been cut off by a "state actor" without mentioning that the state actor in question was his own landlord was indeed a PR stunt.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.0 -
Mr. Bob, but using the euro (leaving aside any potential woe from that in itself) requires being in the EU.
Joining/re-joining will not happen overnight. In the intervening period, the Scots cannot use the potato as a currency, they need some sort of coinage.
The appetite for this being the pound, in the rest of the UK, will be very limited indeed.0 -
Many of the no voters will be dead next time.Essexit said:
Except they won't. All the polling evidence suggests that Scots prefer the UK to the EU and would vote No again, possibly by a bigger margin. Where are these No voters from last time who will change their vote for the possibility of getting to stay in the EU?nielh said:F**k it. The Scots should do it and get on with it.
The English need to wake up to the fact that brexit means break up of the UK. People don't realise that.
'Brexit will break up the UK' belongs in the same dustbin as 'Brexit will cause a war'.
Project fear won't work next time, nor promises of devo max etc.
My point is they should get on with it.
Lets see.
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Can you give us an idea for how long it would take 'domination from Brussels' to force an indy Scotland within the EU to cede control over 2/3 of our taxation, 3/4 of welfare policy, foreign policy, defence, broadcasting, trade & industry, nuclear energy, oil, coal, gas & electricity, the constitution and immigration? Just so we know what to expect, like.david_herdson said:Still begs the question of why Scotland would want to sign up to domination from Brussels.
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A Venn diagram of Trumpers, Brexiteers, Climate Change Deniers and Conspiracy Theory believers would be interesting.619 said:
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one0 -
The Maythatch I seems to be a pretty rubbish prototype.Innocent_Abroad said:
Fear not. A Thatcher robot is well advanced, and will of course be immortal, so that we won't have to bother ourselves with polls, elections and referenda and all that stuff...SquareRoot said:Why did Mrs May agree to be photographed with two Scottish flags. She should have insisted one was the Union Jack .
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Mr. Song, 'deniers'? That's ugly language for people who do not subscribe to a scientific theory. The climate has never been in stasis, and has always continually changed. The view that this is not primarily driven by the industrial activity of man is not one that should be compared to those who reject established historical facts of genocide.
[I said the same thing over Osborne's coarse use of 'deficit deniers' when attacking Labour].
Mr. Divvie, it's worth noting that within the UK power has flowed from Westminster to Holyrood, whereas the EU has the opposite tendency of ever greater centralisation.0 -
Trump goes well beyond Climate Change denying; he argues that the whole thing is a hoax.logical_song said:
A Venn diagram of Trumpers, Brexiteers, Climate Change Deniers and Conspiracy Theory believers would be interesting.619 said:
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one
Bonkers. Plain bonkers.0 -
"bum chum" really doesn't do your credibility any favours.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.0 -
The obvious thing would be a Scottish pound, pegged to the British pound. The latter won't be worth much if Britain is not only leaving the EU but also disintegrating, so they should be able to credibly back the peg if they've got a potato.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bob, but using the euro (leaving aside any potential woe from that in itself) requires being in the EU.
Joining/re-joining will not happen overnight. In the intervening period, the Scots cannot use the potato as a currency, they need some sort of coinage.
The appetite for this being the pound, in the rest of the UK, will be very limited indeed.0 -
"A Venn diagram ... would be interesting" is definitely one for The List.logical_song said:
A Venn diagram of Trumpers, Brexiteers, Climate Change Deniers and Conspiracy Theory believers would be interesting.619 said:
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one0 -
A post from someone who hates his country.Ishmael_X said:The mood music from Brussels is hugely important. Last time round the EU was very forbidding about Scotland joining in its own right, because it wanted an intact UK in the EU. Pre-Brexit, the departure of Scotland diminished the EU, because IndyScotland joining in its own right was problematic, because Spain and Basques etc. Post Brexit Scotland joining extends the EU again. In addition, Scotland deserves a reward for being sturdy Remain voters, and rumpUK deserves punishment for Brexit by the loss of Scotland. Those arguments work post actual Brexit. Indyref2 during Brexit/Art 50 negotiations would potentially draw huge hostility from Brussels if Brussels is secretly hoping to kill off Brexit, and I assume it is (because clearly that hope is alive among Remainers here and I assume they are talking up their chances to Brussels).
Second point - Brexit can be spun to kill the currency argument which was what sunk Yes last time round, because the answer is the euro. That may be a really bad answer, and the stages from here to there may be really difficult, but it is ultimately compulsory, which closes down the debate.
Thirdly, HM the Q is 90. Nobody likes Charles. Republicanism is strong in Scotland. The best situation for Indyref2 is Brexit happens and it becomes obviously a financial disaster for the UK, Charles succeeds to throne, oil price back up. It is not impossible that all those facts would obtain in 2021, enabling SNP to seek a mandate in the 2021Holyrood election.
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its fair to say plato has very little creditibilityIshmael_X said:
"bum chum" really doesn't do your credibility any favours.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.0 -
Daniel Strauss of "Politico" provides a guide to the overnight third POTUS debate :
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-third-presidential-debate-2298040 -
Mr. Tokyo, I agree, but also thought that last time and was perplexed why the SNP never even considered it as an option. Maybe they would this time.
It wouldn't alter the 92% point but would be a lot more credible than claiming a currency union.0 -
He hasn't been keeping his room tidy: 'you can't say you weren't warned'.edmundintokyo said:
TBF tweeting that his internet access been cut off by a "state actor" without mentioning that the state actor in question was his own landlord was indeed a PR stunt.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.0 -
The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?0 -
Flowed? Minimal powers have been dragged incrementally from an unyielding Westminster over decades. How long will it take for Scotland within the UK to reach the level of sovereignty it would have within the EU?Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Divvie, it's worth noting that within the UK power has flowed from Westminster to Holyrood, whereas the EU has the opposite tendency of ever greater centralisation.0 -
do you know what his country is? I like to think of him as a stateless sailor on a whaling shipperdix said:
A post from someone who hates his country.Ishmael_X said:The mood music from Brussels is hugely important. Last time round the EU was very forbidding about Scotland joining in its own right, because it wanted an intact UK in the EU. Pre-Brexit, the departure of Scotland diminished the EU, because IndyScotland joining in its own right was problematic, because Spain and Basques etc. Post Brexit Scotland joining extends the EU again. In addition, Scotland deserves a reward for being sturdy Remain voters, and rumpUK deserves punishment for Brexit by the loss of Scotland. Those arguments work post actual Brexit. Indyref2 during Brexit/Art 50 negotiations would potentially draw huge hostility from Brussels if Brussels is secretly hoping to kill off Brexit, and I assume it is (because clearly that hope is alive among Remainers here and I assume they are talking up their chances to Brussels).
Second point - Brexit can be spun to kill the currency argument which was what sunk Yes last time round, because the answer is the euro. That may be a really bad answer, and the stages from here to there may be really difficult, but it is ultimately compulsory, which closes down the debate.
Thirdly, HM the Q is 90. Nobody likes Charles. Republicanism is strong in Scotland. The best situation for Indyref2 is Brexit happens and it becomes obviously a financial disaster for the UK, Charles succeeds to throne, oil price back up. It is not impossible that all those facts would obtain in 2021, enabling SNP to seek a mandate in the 2021Holyrood election.0 -
Maybe they didn't have a potato?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Tokyo, I agree, but also thought that last time and was perplexed why the SNP never even considered it as an option.
I'm not sure if there was any detailed polling on this, though. Did the voters believe their line that they'd be able to keep the British pound?0 -
venn diagrams are pretty shit when there are more than 3 categoriesIshmael_X said:
"A Venn diagram ... would be interesting" is definitely one for The List.logical_song said:
A Venn diagram of Trumpers, Brexiteers, Climate Change Deniers and Conspiracy Theory believers would be interesting.619 said:
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one0 -
Biden met with the Ecuadorian ambassador before this decision was made. State actor seems entirely accurate. I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.ThomasNashe said:
He hasn't been keeping his room tidy: 'you can't say you weren't warned'.edmundintokyo said:
TBF tweeting that his internet access been cut off by a "state actor" without mentioning that the state actor in question was his own landlord was indeed a PR stunt.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.0 -
Mr. Divvie, in the short term, I agree with you. But in the long term, I think Scotland would enjoy far greater autonomy within the UK outside the EU than the other way around. That's supported by the direction of travel of power within both the UK and EU.0
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The very idea of permanently removing someone's right to vote because they have been convicted of a crime frankly sickens me.
No vote while in prisons, fine. No vote forever, no way.0 -
Absolutely outrageous suggestion to say that the then Governor of Florida, who just happened to be the brother of the Republican nominee, would do anything nefarious to help his party's candidate.AllyPally_Rob said:
The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
I mean it's not like Florida's Secretary of State, who was in charge of elections in Florida was Chair of the George W Bush Florida campaign.
Oh.
But enough of the past, here's what the modern day GOP is doing to try and screw minority voters
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-north-carolina-voter-id-law-20160902-story.html0 -
Yes, I keep on using the term 'deniers' for people who deny stuff. I will try to use a more politically correct term in future.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Song, 'deniers'? That's ugly language for people who do not subscribe to a scientific theory. The climate has never been in stasis, and has always continually changed. The view that this is not primarily driven by the industrial activity of man is not one that should be compared to those who reject established historical facts of genocide.
[I said the same thing over Osborne's coarse use of 'deficit deniers' when attacking Labour].
Mr. Divvie, it's worth noting that within the UK power has flowed from Westminster to Holyrood, whereas the EU has the opposite tendency of ever greater centralisation.
However, idiots who deny the Holocaust should not be allowed to cause us to remove a word from the English language.0 -
Have to stop the blacks from voting some way or another.Alistair said:The very idea of permanently removing someone's right to vote because they have been convicted of a crime frankly sickens me.
No vote while in prisons, fine. No vote forever, no way.
Dave Wasserman Verified account
@Redistrict
In 2012, 71.1% of NC's registered voters were white. Today, only 69.8% are white. Hispanic registration up 40% (vs. 2% for all others).
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I'm pretty sure (he can speak for himself) Ishmael_X's preferrence would be for the continuance of the UK. Still, in Brexitland any attempts at objective analysis is evidence of hating your country.perdix said:
A post from someone who hates his country.Ishmael_X said:The mood music from Brussels is hugely important. Last time round the EU was very forbidding about Scotland joining in its own right, because it wanted an intact UK in the EU. Pre-Brexit, the departure of Scotland diminished the EU, because IndyScotland joining in its own right was problematic, because Spain and Basques etc. Post Brexit Scotland joining extends the EU again. In addition, Scotland deserves a reward for being sturdy Remain voters, and rumpUK deserves punishment for Brexit by the loss of Scotland. Those arguments work post actual Brexit. Indyref2 during Brexit/Art 50 negotiations would potentially draw huge hostility from Brussels if Brussels is secretly hoping to kill off Brexit, and I assume it is (because clearly that hope is alive among Remainers here and I assume they are talking up their chances to Brussels).
Second point - Brexit can be spun to kill the currency argument which was what sunk Yes last time round, because the answer is the euro. That may be a really bad answer, and the stages from here to there may be really difficult, but it is ultimately compulsory, which closes down the debate.
Thirdly, HM the Q is 90. Nobody likes Charles. Republicanism is strong in Scotland. The best situation for Indyref2 is Brexit happens and it becomes obviously a financial disaster for the UK, Charles succeeds to throne, oil price back up. It is not impossible that all those facts would obtain in 2021, enabling SNP to seek a mandate in the 2021Holyrood election.0 -
Plato, LOL.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
You've lost the plot. Seriously. Just step away from the keyboard, log out of Twitter and *think*.0 -
Is Assange wikileaks? You'd think they'd have some kind of backup systemPlatoSaid said:
Biden met with the Ecuadorian ambassador before this decision was made. State actor seems entirely accurate. I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.ThomasNashe said:
He hasn't been keeping his room tidy: 'you can't say you weren't warned'.edmundintokyo said:
TBF tweeting that his internet access been cut off by a "state actor" without mentioning that the state actor in question was his own landlord was indeed a PR stunt.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.0 -
James O'Keefe
Creamer visited the @WhiteHouse 340 TIMES in the last few years. Tell Chris Wallace to ask @HillaryClinton tomorrow https://t.co/UH2Yt4mknq
Creamer has an interesting background. Convicted felon for bank fraud, married to senior Dem Congress woman and just sacked for orchestrated voter fraud and formanting violence at Trump rallies.
It makes UK dodgy sorts look like Mary Poppins.0 -
Unlike Scotland, where any thought, word or deed not in praise of the SNP is "evidence of hating your country"Theuniondivvie said:Still, in Brexitland any attempts at objective analysis is evidence of hating your country.
The curse of Petty nationalism spreads far and wide...
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But not in Frankfurt (which was my point, albeit a little unclear)IanB2 said:
They speak English in Edinburgh, more or less.Charles said:
Financial services not moving. Language too big a barrier. Partnership between Dublin and London is what I expect.Scott_P said:
Not really.IanB2 said:And Brexit offers an Edinburgh inside the EU some big opportunities (assuming rUK actually leaves, rather than fall into panic if the union starts to disintegrate).
If the UK leaves, and Scotland joins, with all that entails, then in 10 years Edinburgh might be able to compete with Frankfurt for some Euro business.
It would not compete with London, for anything.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.htmlScott_P said:@IanDunt: It's taken them nearly four months and the best plan the Brexiters have is: Let's export biscuits.
Lucky we don't have to import the sugar to make them.
Oh, wait...
One area where I'm in general agreement with Brexiters is over the CAP. It's a mess that has proved immune to reform, and we're better off outside it.
But in return, we need ministers who actually understand farming and the countryside, not clueless townies who will only listen to pressure groups (and that includes farming groups).0 -
That wasn't even the end of it in Florida. In 2012 the GOP had to stop it's voter registration effort early, because the consulting firm they were using were submitting hundreds of fake voter registrations!TheScreamingEagles said:
Absolutely outrageous suggestion to say that the then Governor of Florida, who just happened to be the brother of the Republican nominee, would do anything nefarious to help his party's candidate.AllyPally_Rob said:
The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.PlatoSaid said:
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.weejonnie said:
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"Alistair said:Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
I mean it's not like Florida's Secretary of State, who was in charge of elections in Florida was Chair of the George W Bush Florida campaign.
Oh.
But enough of the past, here's what the modern day GOP is doing to try and screw minority voters
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-north-carolina-voter-id-law-20160902-story.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-registration-fraud-gop-backed-firm-spreads/story?id=173704450 -
At the risk of aligning with the Racist Florida Swamp Paranoid White Supremacist faction of American politics (Sussex cat lady branch) what I thought was more disturbing was Russia Today getting their banking shut down. I mean, they're clearly pushing an agenda, but they're also doing legitimate journalism.PlatoSaid said:I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.
If there's a case for stopping them using British money it should be made to a court, not have somebody unaccountably nudge a private business's compliance officer.0 -
Mr. Song, words acquire connotations beyond their dry definitions. The strength or meaning of words can also change over time due to new meanings being applied.
Fortunately, I wrote about this quite recently: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/sex-and-sexiness-in-history.html0 -
The real “people who hate their country” are those who object to any objective discussion of that country’s prospects.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm pretty sure (he can speak for himself) Ishmael_X's preferrence would be for the continuance of the UK. Still, in Brexitland any attempts at objective analysis is evidence of hating your country.perdix said:
A post from someone who hates his country.Ishmael_X said:The mood music from Brussels is hugely important. Last time round the EU was very forbidding about Scotland joining in its own right, because it wanted an intact UK in the EU. Pre-Brexit, the departure of Scotland diminished the EU, because IndyScotland joining in its own right was problematic, because Spain and Basques etc. Post Brexit Scotland joining extends the EU again. In addition, Scotland deserves a reward for being sturdy Remain voters, and rumpUK deserves punishment for Brexit by the loss of Scotland. Those arguments work post actual Brexit. Indyref2 during Brexit/Art 50 negotiations would potentially draw huge hostility from Brussels if Brussels is secretly hoping to kill off Brexit, and I assume it is (because clearly that hope is alive among Remainers here and I assume they are talking up their chances to Brussels).
Second point - Brexit can be spun to kill the currency argument which was what sunk Yes last time round, because the answer is the euro. That may be a really bad answer, and the stages from here to there may be really difficult, but it is ultimately compulsory, which closes down the debate.
Thirdly, HM the Q is 90. Nobody likes Charles. Republicanism is strong in Scotland. The best situation for Indyref2 is Brexit happens and it becomes obviously a financial disaster for the UK, Charles succeeds to throne, oil price back up. It is not impossible that all those facts would obtain in 2021, enabling SNP to seek a mandate in the 2021Holyrood election.
I don’t agree with some of Ishmael X’s views, but I’d rather debate them .... is Republicanism really strong in Scotland , for example ...... than simply abuse him.0 -
NBC news on the "infinitesimal" scale of voter fraud since 2000 detailed in a recent academic study :AllyPally_Rob said:The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-evidence-widespread-voter-fraud-n637776
And GOP voter suppression here :
https://voiceofoc.org/2016/08/how-politics-obscures-the-truth-about-voter-fraud/0 -
Anyone who denies 'climate change' has to be thick: the climate changes. It's changed in the past and will change in the future.logical_song said:
Yes, I keep on using the term 'deniers' for people who deny stuff. I will try to use a more politically correct term in future.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Song, 'deniers'? That's ugly language for people who do not subscribe to a scientific theory. The climate has never been in stasis, and has always continually changed. The view that this is not primarily driven by the industrial activity of man is not one that should be compared to those who reject established historical facts of genocide.
[I said the same thing over Osborne's coarse use of 'deficit deniers' when attacking Labour].
Mr. Divvie, it's worth noting that within the UK power has flowed from Westminster to Holyrood, whereas the EU has the opposite tendency of ever greater centralisation.
However, idiots who deny the Holocaust should not be allowed to cause us to remove a word from the English language.
Denying AGW is a very different matter.0 -
Oh Jack, will you please stop bringing facts into this debate.JackW said:
NBC news on the "infinitesimal" scale of voter fraud since 2000 detailed in a recent academic study :AllyPally_Rob said:The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-evidence-widespread-voter-fraud-n637776
And GOP voter suppression here :
https://voiceofoc.org/2016/08/how-politics-obscures-the-truth-about-voter-fraud/0 -
The lack of self awareness is glorious.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I've only peripherally seen the story. What was the reasoning behind the decision?edmundintokyo said:
At the risk of aligning with the Racist Florida Swamp Paranoid White Supremacist faction of American politics (Sussex cat lady branch) what I thought was more disturbing was Russia Today getting their banking shut down. I mean, they're clearly pushing an agenda, but they're also doing legitimate journalism.PlatoSaid said:I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.
If there's a case for stopping them using British money it should be made to a court, not have somebody unaccountably nudge a private business's compliance officer.0 -
manufacturing a new van probably produces a lot more pollution than driving an old one aroundTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
A scheme which supported farmers, not rich grouse moor owners, would be a good start.JosiasJessop said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.htmlScott_P said:@IanDunt: It's taken them nearly four months and the best plan the Brexiters have is: Let's export biscuits.
Lucky we don't have to import the sugar to make them.
Oh, wait...
One area where I'm in general agreement with Brexiters is over the CAP. It's a mess that has proved immune to reform, and we're better off outside it.
But in return, we need ministers who actually understand farming and the countryside, not clueless townies who will only listen to pressure groups (and that includes farming groups).0 -
edit. couldn't be bothered with AGW debate
0 -
Mr Divvie,
"Can you give us an idea for how long it would take 'domination from Brussels' to force an indy Scotland within the EU to cede control over ..."
About twenty years now that the awkward squad are leaving.
You're welcome.0 -
you know fine well NBC and academics are part of the conspiracyJackW said:
NBC news on the "infinitesimal" scale of voter fraud since 2000 detailed in a recent academic study :AllyPally_Rob said:The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-evidence-widespread-voter-fraud-n637776
And GOP voter suppression here :
https://voiceofoc.org/2016/08/how-politics-obscures-the-truth-about-voter-fraud/0 -
The problem with ascribing meaning to words in isolation is that context is vital. And if we took that into account, in most cases we'd be a lot less exercised about the whole business.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Song, words acquire connotations beyond their dry definitions. The strength or meaning of words can also change over time due to new meanings being applied.
Fortunately, I wrote about this quite recently: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/sex-and-sexiness-in-history.html0 -
Mr. Dugarbandier, substantially different.
If your house bursts into flames because your wife committed arson that's a different situation to your house bursting into flames because a nearby volcano has erupted.
You can divorce your wife. You can't divorce a volcano.
You can move away from a volcano, but doing so from your wife (whilst still married) might not amuse her.0 -
Ben Kamisar of "TheHill" on Trump's love of polls in Colorado showing him winning .... Unfortunately they don't exist :
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/301679-trump-points-to-nonexistent-polls-he-says-show-his-lead0 -
Most women are like volcanoes. I mean they both erupt with no warning at all.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dugarbandier, substantially different.
If your house bursts into flames because your wife committed arson that's a different situation to your house bursting into flames because a nearby volcano has erupted.
You can divorce your wife. You can't divorce a volcano.
You can move away from a volcano, but doing so from your wife (whilst still married) might not amuse her.0 -
Bicycle?dugarbandier said:
manufacturing a new van probably produces a lot more pollution than driving an old one aroundTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
And Republican State Governors and legislatures too!dugarbandier said:
you know fine well NBC and academics are part of the conspiracyJackW said:
NBC news on the "infinitesimal" scale of voter fraud since 2000 detailed in a recent academic study :AllyPally_Rob said:The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-evidence-widespread-voter-fraud-n637776
And GOP voter suppression here :
https://voiceofoc.org/2016/08/how-politics-obscures-the-truth-about-voter-fraud/0 -
And Mexico and Ecuadorfoxinsoxuk said:
And Republican State Governors and legislatures too!dugarbandier said:
you know fine well NBC and academics are part of the conspiracyJackW said:
NBC news on the "infinitesimal" scale of voter fraud since 2000 detailed in a recent academic study :AllyPally_Rob said:The problem is there aren't any peer-reviewed studies to say that voter fraud is a significant problem. If you have links to any that come from non partisan organisation.
The biggest 'fraud' has been GOP efforts to restrict the franchise. Most memorably when 12,000 largely black Florida voters had their names removed from the electoral register in 2000 for having the same name as a criminal. Where is your outrage about that Plato?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-finds-no-evidence-widespread-voter-fraud-n637776
And GOP voter suppression here :
https://voiceofoc.org/2016/08/how-politics-obscures-the-truth-about-voter-fraud/0 -
Cracking random capitalisation.Scott_P said:
Unlike Scotland, where any thought, word or deed not in praise of the SNP is "evidence of hating your country"Theuniondivvie said:Still, in Brexitland any attempts at objective analysis is evidence of hating your country.
The curse of Petty nationalism spreads far and wide...
BTW how's your belief going that Sturgeon has the right to call a second indy referendum due to the Brexit vote? Still holding firm or was that just 24th June butt hurt?0 -
Mr. Eagles, a lot of them smoke, too.0
-
fair enough but isn't that Bernie Sanders brother/cousin or whatever and about 95 years old?MaxPB said:
Bicycle?dugarbandier said:
manufacturing a new van probably produces a lot more pollution than driving an old one aroundTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
They also made cane sugar more expensive. An all round fuck up like the fishing quotas.Charles said:0 -
Monsieur Dancer, Sorry I think you're replying to my edited post. I'm retiring from the AGW debate. I don't want to bore everyone (including myself)Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dugarbandier, substantially different.
If your house bursts into flames because your wife committed arson that's a different situation to your house bursting into flames because a nearby volcano has erupted.
You can divorce your wife. You can't divorce a volcano.
You can move away from a volcano, but doing so from your wife (whilst still married) might not amuse her.0 -
Have all of their activists defected to Jez already?dugarbandier said:
fair enough but isn't that Bernie Sanders brother/cousin or whatever and about 95 years old?MaxPB said:
Bicycle?dugarbandier said:
manufacturing a new van probably produces a lot more pollution than driving an old one aroundTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Swindon Labour Councillor joins Tories. Must be that Corbyn effect.
http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2016-10-19/swindon-councillor-defects-to-conservatives-after-5-months-with-labour/0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Oh Jack, will you please stop bringing facts into this debate.
My facts are provided by impeccable sources at Clinton-Lizard People Enterprises at Finchley Road .... What more do people want ?!?dugarbandier said:you know fine well NBC and academics are part of the conspiracy
0 -
NatWest pointed out that it was a farrago of lies. The letter the RT guy tweeted was addressed to a dodgy supplier to RT not to RT itself...edmundintokyo said:
At the risk of aligning with the Racist Florida Swamp Paranoid White Supremacist faction of American politics (Sussex cat lady branch) what I thought was more disturbing was Russia Today getting their banking shut down. I mean, they're clearly pushing an agenda, but they're also doing legitimate journalism.PlatoSaid said:I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.
If there's a case for stopping them using British money it should be made to a court, not have somebody unaccountably nudge a private business's compliance officer.
0 -
You don't get to hear the reasoning. They say they've decided not to do business with you any more. If you go to another bank they'll also decline your business.JosiasJessop said:
I've only peripherally seen the story. What was the reasoning behind the decision?edmundintokyo said:
At the risk of aligning with the Racist Florida Swamp Paranoid White Supremacist faction of American politics (Sussex cat lady branch) what I thought was more disturbing was Russia Today getting their banking shut down. I mean, they're clearly pushing an agenda, but they're also doing legitimate journalism.PlatoSaid said:I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.
If there's a case for stopping them using British money it should be made to a court, not have somebody unaccountably nudge a private business's compliance officer.
RT's account:
https://www.rt.com/news/363013-rt-uk-accounts-blocked/
The same thing happened to wikileaks way back when. They had some success litigating over it, but it took years.0 -
Just a thought. Given this is a betting site - and therefore those well versed in the mindset/media watching of that view would be helpful to all, I try to provide that.
Whilst I appreciate it doesn't fit with the UK centric liberal viewpoint of PB - it does help balance it out a tad. If you aren't interested in that - cool, if you are and want to know what the Trump campaign is doing/US MSM and alt media are reporting - it may be useful to you.
99% here don't have a vote.
Here's the Pt II of the DNC investigation. It's resulted in immediate resignation of Mr Creamer. I gather there's more to follow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDc8PVCvfKs0 -
We've passed peak Nat - anyone who thinks Nicola is brave or daft enough to want to lose another referendum is barking mad. Or behaving like a spoilt child post referendum as the result didn't go their way.
0 -
Mr. Dugarbandier, fair enough.
Mr. Flashman (deceased), perhaps, but if the political pressure is substantial enough or Sturgeon believes she will have no other opportunity (for a very long time) the referendum could yet occur.0 -
Ask yourself if she can't win what causes the most Greivo-Max ?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Dugarbandier, fair enough.
Mr. Flashman (deceased), perhaps, but if the political pressure is substantial enough or Sturgeon believes she will have no other opportunity (for a very long time) the referendum could yet occur.
The answer is no referendum - follow the whining...0 -
Unemployment up by 10K.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37701672
Cue for Corbyn to blame Tories, brexit, bad weather.0 -
0
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Per the BBC (or possibly one of their dodgy suppliers):Charles said:
NatWest pointed out that it was a farrago of lies. The letter the RT guy tweeted was addressed to a dodgy supplier to RT not to RT itself...edmundintokyo said:
At the risk of aligning with the Racist Florida Swamp Paranoid White Supremacist faction of American politics (Sussex cat lady branch) what I thought was more disturbing was Russia Today getting their banking shut down. I mean, they're clearly pushing an agenda, but they're also doing legitimate journalism.PlatoSaid said:I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.
If there's a case for stopping them using British money it should be made to a court, not have somebody unaccountably nudge a private business's compliance officer.
"The TV station says the supplier is the local production company that, amongst other things, handles RT staff salaries"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37697474
The company on the letter they post is called Russia Today TV Ltd.0 -
Carl Bialik of 538 asks pollsters to give their forecasts .... look away now Trumpsters :
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/top-pollsters-expect-clinton-to-win/0 -
And querying it is very different from denying it.JosiasJessop said:
Anyone who denies 'climate change' has to be thick: the climate changes. It's changed in the past and will change in the future.logical_song said:
Yes, I keep on using the term 'deniers' for people who deny stuff. I will try to use a more politically correct term in future.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Song, 'deniers'? That's ugly language for people who do not subscribe to a scientific theory. The climate has never been in stasis, and has always continually changed. The view that this is not primarily driven by the industrial activity of man is not one that should be compared to those who reject established historical facts of genocide.
[I said the same thing over Osborne's coarse use of 'deficit deniers' when attacking Labour].
Mr. Divvie, it's worth noting that within the UK power has flowed from Westminster to Holyrood, whereas the EU has the opposite tendency of ever greater centralisation.
However, idiots who deny the Holocaust should not be allowed to cause us to remove a word from the English language.
Denying AGW is a very different matter.
And accepting it but objecting to damaging policies in a vain attempt to reverse it is something different again.0 -
And NatWest said it was a supplieredmundintokyo said:
Per the BBC (or possibly one of their dodgy suppliers):Charles said:
NatWest pointed out that it was a farrago of lies. The letter the RT guy tweeted was addressed to a dodgy supplier to RT not to RT itself...edmundintokyo said:
At the risk of aligning with the Racist Florida Swamp Paranoid White Supremacist faction of American politics (Sussex cat lady branch) what I thought was more disturbing was Russia Today getting their banking shut down. I mean, they're clearly pushing an agenda, but they're also doing legitimate journalism.PlatoSaid said:I detest Assange, but he's been silenced - I think that's wrong.
If there's a case for stopping them using British money it should be made to a court, not have somebody unaccountably nudge a private business's compliance officer.
"The TV station says the supplier is the local production company that, amongst other things, handles RT staff salaries"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37697474
The company on the letter they post is called Russia Today TV Ltd.
Neither of us know the truth but I'm more inclined to believe NatWest0 -
If a person didn't vote in the referendum, how would the MP know how they wished to be represented?SouthamObserver said:
MPs have a duty to represent the interests of all their constituents, not just the ones who vote.david_herdson said:
Nor does it stop it being irrelevant. If you don't vote, you don't count.Pong said:
The truth may be inconvenient for you, but it doesn't stop it being the truth.JennyFreeman said:
Oh dear, that old chestnut.Pong said:
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.JennyFreeman said:As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.0 -
The best scenario for the country would be IndyRef2 being won before Brexit happens. If Scotland is able to negotiate continuing EU membership it would kill the idea of hard Brexit stone dead, and the alternative to hard Brexit is no Brexit.
Indeed by ceasing to exist, the EU referendum mandate would be fulfilled - the United Kingdom would no longer be a member of the EU.0 -
BBC "Wage growth was steady at 2.3%."
But inflation is in crisis at 1.0%..0 -
Good header Alastair. It would take courage but if they did take the plunge and were accepted into full membership of the euro they could clean up in the financial and services sector in a way that would make the price of oil irrelevant. England post Brexit looks like becomming a very ugly place both socially and economically.
OT. Someone posted this yesterday 'conservatives vs liberals'. Well worth a read.
http://www.ethicsdefined.org/the-problem-with-morality/conservatives-vs-liberals/0 -
I can quite understand why Scots would prefer Brussels to perpetual Tory rule from London which is pretty much what they are facing at the moment.CarlottaVance said:May could do a lot to spike Sturgeon's guns by setting out what would be devolved from Brussels to Holyrood - Fisheries for example - you can hardly complain for decades about Westminster failing to protect Scottish fisheries in Brussels then say 'no thanks' when offered the job yourself....
0 -
Surely the best result for the country is free unicorns ? Which is about as likely.williamglenn said:The best scenario for the country would be IndyRef2 being won before Brexit happens. If Scotland is able to negotiate continuing EU membership it would kill the idea of hard Brexit stone dead, and the alternative to hard Brexit is no Brexit.
Indeed by ceasing to exist, the EU referendum mandate would be fulfilled - the United Kingdom would no longer be a member of the EU.0 -
One wonders idly whether a certain cat loving PBer from Sussex follows this POTUS Pussy twitter account ....
Meowww :
https://twitter.com/TeaPartyCat0 -
How can you say that being removed from the EU and the single market against their will does not constitute a major change?Dromedary said:So "another referendum on the same issue" is in the air?
One thing that hasn't changed is that Scotland has no right to belong to the EU and would have to apply for membership. Belonging to the single market but not the EU - probably meaning customs posts on the border with England - would be akin to using sterling without having a say over monetary policy. In short, it's a load of old cock, although if they wrap it in the saltire and denounce their opponents as "talking Scotland down", Sturgeon's party may be able to sell it to a large proportion of their own supporters.
Scotland wouldn't be like Norway with the oil and the big sovereign fund.
The SNP is full of "me me me" pork belly-chasing types who dream of getting as many grants out of the EU as politicians and their business supporters do in Ireland. That's what the EU means for them. They can dream away, but the talk of a second referendum is a waste of public money. Brexit would change so little in Scotland that the SNP's barefaced assertion that the Euref result necessitates tearing up the indyref mandate - which was very clearly to keep the union - is utterly dishonest and self-serving. If the Greens had any backbone they would bring the minority SNP government down. But they haven't and won't.0 -
That's no consolation for the constituents who have to breath in the particulates.dugarbandier said:
manufacturing a new van probably produces a lot more pollution than driving an old one aroundTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Richard Clegg ONS
People working full-time up 362k on the year and people working part-time up 198k on the year
https://t.co/5bOrdActQF
73.4% of women aged 16-64 were either working or seeking work for Jun-Aug 2016, highest female activity rate since records began in 19710 -
JennyFreeman said:
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
Yes Leave won by 3.8% of the votes overall, but Remain won a majority of votes from working people, from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and London. That is why pushing through a hard Brexit etc is going to be so fractious. Yes you won but pretending you won by some sort of landslide is not helping at all - truth is without the OAPs you would have lost.JennyFreeman said:
Oh dear, that old chestnut.Pong said:
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.JennyFreeman said:As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.0 -
Is that because the EU removed tariff quotas on imported sugar or did they do something else? I ask because the brave new Brexit world supposedly involves the elimination of tariffs. The same would apply to meat, grain and milk. Ie the rest of our agriculture.Charles said:0 -
"Remain won a majority of votes from working people, from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and London."
Utterly irrelevant.0
