if they did take the plunge and were accepted into full membership of the euro they could clean up in the financial and services sector
And when the next crash comes, they can fund their own bailout.
"With RBS and HBOS – two of the world’s biggest banks – Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for the long-term." (Alex Salmond's March 2008 "Scotland will be a Celtic Lion" speech, which has since been scrubbed from the internet)
Press reporting on the economy is bad at most times, post referendum it has become laughable. Breathless reporting on changes that are barely measurable and frequently eliminated by later revisions to the data.
For quite a few years now I've believed that this obsession with short term data is harming politics and economics. There seems to be little appreciation that you have to weigh up the significance of data, accept that many things are hard to measure accurately or precisely, and that you should not extrapolate trends from small changes over short durations. It becomes a distraction from the things that really matter, long term policy decisions and trends.
The best scenario for the country would be IndyRef2 being won before Brexit happens. If Scotland is able to negotiate continuing EU membership it would kill the idea of hard Brexit stone dead, and the alternative to hard Brexit is no Brexit.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Oh dear, that old chestnut.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.
Yes Leave won by 3.8% of the votes overall, but Remain won a majority of votes from working people, from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and London. That is why pushing through a hard Brexit etc is going to be so fractious. Yes you won but pretending you won by some sort of landslide is not helping at all - truth is without the OAPs you would have lost.
Utterly irrelevant and also not necessarily even true since most 18-24s (where Remain had it's biggest lead) aren't working anyway.
Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
"bum chum" really doesn't do your credibility any favours.
Yes, it has reduced her credibility from precisely zero to exactly zero.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Oh dear, that old chestnut.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.
Yes Leave won by 3.8% of the votes overall, but Remain won a majority of votes from working people, from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and London. That is why pushing through a hard Brexit etc is going to be so fractious. Yes you won but pretending you won by some sort of landslide is not helping at all - truth is without the OAPs you would have lost.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
Leave won.
Remainers have two choices: (1) work with Leavers to deliver the best Leave, or (2) sit on the sidelines carping, moaning and working to frustrate the will of the British people.
At the moment this subject is relevant principally as a piece of leverage for soft Brexit, and yet another reason why May would be taking a huge risk in delivering a Brexit that turns out "too hard".
Contrary to the indications immediately after EUref, the balance of view on Scotindy hasn't significantly changed because of the UK vote.
The unknown is whether, like last time, the balance would shift significantly towards independence during any second referendum? If it does, then the yes side is as good as home already. However the first referendum is an unusual example of a campaign shifting sentiment significantly - and support for independence hasn't sunk back to pre-campaign levels. So it is more likely that the bulk of those receptive to the idea have already been won over?
The SNP would have one significant advantage during a second campaign. Their opponents would be an unhappy mix of mostly pro-Brexit Tories, and pro-Remain Labour and LibDems, pushed to campaign together in the middle of an exit process on which they profoundly disagree. I don't see this working out too well either in terms of campaign messaging or co-operation? Plus everyone will be aware, as they weren't last time, that a referendum campaign can shift the terms of domestic politics; no-one will want to volunteer to repeat Labour's experience last time, where winning did them no favours at all.
So the stakes are high, all round!
While May is signalling a hard Brexit then the status quo for the Scots is nowhere near as attractive as it was last time. Sturgeon needs to go for it while that appears to be where we are headed because I am not sure that that is where we will end up.
It is becoming clear that the final Brexit deal will need parliamentary approval and I cannot see a majority voting through a hard Brexit package.
Mr. glw, favourite recent economic cretinism was from the BBC chap Kamal Ahmed[sp], who asked Carney pre-vote if the Governor could guarantee there would not be a recession if we voted to leave.
I imagine if voting to leave meant abolishing recessions forever and banishing the downward part of the business cycle it would've gotten rather more than 52%.
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
you know fine well NBC and academics are part of the conspiracy
My facts are provided by impeccable sources at Clinton-Lizard People Enterprises at Finchley Road .... What more do people want ?!?
I volunteer one afternoon a week at a charity bookshop. A lady came in last week and asked which section "David Ike" books would be under. Good question. Do we have a Lizard People section in the shop?
The mood music from Brussels is hugely important. Last time round the EU was very forbidding about Scotland joining in its own right, because it wanted an intact UK in the EU. Pre-Brexit, the departure of Scotland diminished the EU, because IndyScotland joining in its own right was problematic, because Spain and Basques etc. Post Brexit Scotland joining extends the EU again. In addition, Scotland deserves a reward for being sturdy Remain voters, and rumpUK deserves punishment for Brexit by the loss of Scotland. Those arguments work post actual Brexit. Indyref2 during Brexit/Art 50 negotiations would potentially draw huge hostility from Brussels if Brussels is secretly hoping to kill off Brexit, and I assume it is (because clearly that hope is alive among Remainers here and I assume they are talking up their chances to Brussels).
Second point - Brexit can be spun to kill the currency argument which was what sunk Yes last time round, because the answer is the euro. That may be a really bad answer, and the stages from here to there may be really difficult, but it is ultimately compulsory, which closes down the debate.
Thirdly, HM the Q is 90. Nobody likes Charles. Republicanism is strong in Scotland. The best situation for Indyref2 is Brexit happens and it becomes obviously a financial disaster for the UK, Charles succeeds to throne, oil price back up. It is not impossible that all those facts would obtain in 2021, enabling SNP to seek a mandate in the 2021Holyrood election.
A post from someone who hates his country.
I'm pretty sure (he can speak for himself) Ishmael_X's preferrence would be for the continuance of the UK. Still, in Brexitland any attempts at objective analysis is evidence of hating your country.
The real “people who hate their country” are those who object to any objective discussion of that country’s prospects. I don’t agree with some of Ishmael X’s views, but I’d rather debate them .... is Republicanism really strong in Scotland , for example ...... than simply abuse him.
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one
I would chuckle at that (no I'm not), but it's too important.
I think you call this correctly, Alastair. The SNP exists for independence. There's a huge pressure on the leadership to call a second referendum regardless of tactics. For example Yes2 car stickers are mushrooming. Membership wouldn't forgive a missed opportunity.
The one thing that acts against a second referendum is there has been four years continuous constitutional wrangling in Scotland. People are tired of it.
My guess is that there will be a Catalonia style unauthorised referendum. Independence will get 80% of the vote on a 40% turnout. People opposed won't show up.
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
If its handwaving to say that a Trump election will cause us in the UK untold extra problems then I'm waving. Blowing up half the Middle East because someone sent him an offensive tweet and he was in a bad mood that day will have plenty of implications for us.
Interesting piece Alastair. If you think winning an independence referendum is all that matters, then I think there is a logic to what you say. Now is the time to go for it. However, the SNP must know that whereas ownership of Brexit is now with a mix of people who campaigned on either side of the debate, ownership of Sexit will well and truly lie with them. This caught my eye...
[Theresa May] might simultaneously be seeking to negotiate soft Brexit with Brussels while warning of the effects of hard Brexit in Scotland.
I actually thought you were going to say that May would be warning of the effects of hard Sexit. And hard Sexit is a lot harder than hard Brexit.
Getting a Yes vote is what the SNP was set up to achieve. What happens after that beyond the separation from England is of no importance to the party. If it ceased to exist on the day that independence happened why would any of its leaders or members care?
Eh careers? Can you name one nationalist movement that has gained power and then thought, you know what lads? Let's call it a day.
But Salmond achieved a truly remarkable majority in a system that was supposed to make that almost impossible. Sturgeon did not. Whilst still totally dominant the SNP are past their peak. Next year they will take Glasgow from SLAB and increase their hold on some of the central belt councils but they will slip back in the borders and north of Perth.
David, at the last Scottish council elections, Labour won 31% of the vote. I've not seen any VI figures for councils but the Westminster VI is currently putting Labour in the mid-teens at best. Do you have any thoughts as to what losses on that kind of scale - up to three-quarters of their councillors, if the numbers won by the Tories in 2012 on 13% is a guide - might do to Scottish Labour?
David, not really. I suspect that the Tory figure is much worse than Labour will do because the major disadvantage that the Tories had was that their vote was spread fairly evenly across the bulk of the country ( a bit weaker in the Glasgow conurbation). The Labour vote, in contrast, is more concentrated and therefore should do a bit better in terms of seats. But losing half of their councillors and their few remaining councils must be a strong possibility.
This will make it a good night for the SNP because they will be the main beneficiary of this. Any gains that the tories make in the borders, Aberdeenshire, Perth & Kinross etc will pale by comparison. It would be nice if the tories got a council or two though.
Alistair Meeks is like many hard core Remainers. Having said and proclaimed that a Brexit vote would cause chaos and mayhem and having been proved wrong - at least in the short term - they now encourage any bit of chaos to happen.
It would be a good idea if all these Remoaners were transported to Greece to see what not having the guts to do a Grexit has done to that poor benighted country.
As has been said many times the short term chaos prediction was based on Cameron saying he would trigger Article 50 within a couple of days of the vote. Cameron didn't, but don't fret it will happen soon enough
Mr. glw, favourite recent economic cretinism was from the BBC chap Kamal Ahmed[sp], who asked Carney pre-vote if the Governor could guarantee there would not be a recession if we voted to leave.
I imagine if voting to leave meant abolishing recessions forever and banishing the downward part of the business cycle it would've gotten rather more than 52%.
Sadly questions along such stupid lines aren't all that uncommon. The one that always gets me is moaning about things — schools, hospitals, whatever — being average.
Just a thought. Given this is a betting site - and therefore those well versed in the mindset/media watching of that view would be helpful to all, I try to provide that.
Whilst I appreciate it doesn't fit with the UK centric liberal viewpoint of PB - it does help balance it out a tad. If you aren't interested in that - cool, if you are and want to know what the Trump campaign is doing/US MSM and alt media are reporting - it may be useful to you.
99% here don't have a vote.
Here's the Pt II of the DNC investigation. It's resulted in immediate resignation of Mr Creamer. I gather there's more to follow.
I wouldn't call most Pbers "liberal". Much more conservative than general population as whole.
We know all of this alt right/conspiracy thoery media plays very well with his base, trouble is there is zero evidence it helps him gain a single vote.
At the moment this subject is relevant principally as a piece of leverage for soft Brexit, and yet another reason why May would be taking a huge risk in delivering a Brexit that turns out "too hard".
Contrary to the indications immediately after EUref, the balance of view on Scotindy hasn't significantly changed because of the UK vote.
The unknown is whether, like last time, the balance would shift significantly towards independence during any second referendum? If it does, then the yes side is as good as home already. However the first referendum is an unusual example of a campaign shifting sentiment significantly - and support for independence hasn't sunk back to pre-campaign levels. So it is more likely that the bulk of those receptive to the idea have already been won over?
The SNP would have one significant advantage during a second campaign. Their opponents would be an unhappy mix of mostly pro-Brexit Tories, and pro-Remain Labour and LibDems, pushed to campaign together in the middle of an exit process on which they profoundly disagree. I don't see this working out too well either in terms of campaign messaging or co-operation? Plus everyone will be aware, as they weren't last time, that a referendum campaign can shift the terms of domestic politics; no-one will want to volunteer to repeat Labour's experience last time, where winning did them no favours at all.
So the stakes are high, all round!
While May is signalling a hard Brexit then the status quo for the Scots is nowhere near as attractive as it was last time.
There is no status quo - it's Brexit Britain vs Brussels , the Euro and penury.
The previous white paper has been utterly discredited on the economy - the referendum is unwinnable unless oil hits $100+ and probably more.
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
If its handwaving to say that a Trump election will cause us in the UK untold extra problems then I'm waving. Blowing up half the Middle East because someone sent him an offensive tweet and he was in a bad mood that day will have plenty of implications for us.
It's Hillary and Obama threatening Russia with cyberwar as a PR stunt right now. Really, take a wider view not play to the narrative from DNC.
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
And people got fired from ACORN before it was revealed that O'Keefe's video was a fraudulent, dishonestly edited lie.
O'Keefe was sued and paid out $100,000 to the employee that got fired and apologised due to his lying bullshit.
Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one
A Venn diagram of Trumpers, Brexiteers, Climate Change Deniers and Conspiracy Theory believers would be interesting.
I know who would be right in the centre of that diagram!
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
There is no significant voter fraud and no evidence for such. There is more than enough evidence of voter suppression of minorities by the RNC though, if you need an ACTUAL Conspiracy to get excited about.
And you seem to care a whole lot more about proving Trump to be a fit president compared to most other Trump Rampers on here, despite him being a crazy racist who has admitted to sexually abusing women.
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
If its handwaving to say that a Trump election will cause us in the UK untold extra problems then I'm waving. Blowing up half the Middle East because someone sent him an offensive tweet and he was in a bad mood that day will have plenty of implications for us.
It's Hillary and Obama threatening Russia with cyberwar as a PR stunt right now. Really, take a wider view not play to the narrative from DNC.
Honestly, Plato do you really believe Trump has the temperament to be President?
Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
"bum chum" really doesn't do your credibility any favours.
its fair to say plato has very little creditibility
Genuinely surprised anyone is still reading the guff she puts out, I suppose there might be some amusement value in it.
'Joining/re-joining will not happen overnight. In the intervening period, the Scots cannot use the potato as a currency, they need some sort of coinage.'
Trump is bringing Obama's half brother to the debate tonight! Does he know who he is campaigning against?
This is the Obama who said "Of course it helps in Ohio that the Democrats run the voting machines?"
Mr Soros - bum chum of the Clintons provides thousands of voting machines in the US. Honestly, a lot of 'conspiracy theories' seem to be coming true with Wikileaks. I'm genuinely shocked. I dismissed most of this stuff as paranoia. I thought Assange internet cutting was a PR stunt - nope.
Anyone handwaving away the idea that the MSM aren't in the tank with the DNC, that voter fraud isn't happening or things are basically okay isn't using their eyes. Comey at the FBI isn't neutral at all - the whole thing stinks - not trusting the FBI anymore?? Who can you go to when you meet a wall of collusion, pay for play and arse covering. No wonder why so many are going WTF right now.
well, there are 2 options. Trump is losing due to an interntaional conpairacy involving the MSM, Jews and Mexicans rigging the vote.
Or because he is a crazy racist who openly brags about sexually assaulting women.
its a tough one
A Venn diagram of Trumpers, Brexiteers, Climate Change Deniers and Conspiracy Theory believers would be interesting.
I know who would be right in the centre of that diagram!
I was going to say Reg Presley of the Troggs, but it appears he's dead. Or is he...
Just a thought. Given this is a betting site - and therefore those well versed in the mindset/media watching of that view would be helpful to all, I try to provide that.
Whilst I appreciate it doesn't fit with the UK centric liberal viewpoint of PB - it does help balance it out a tad. If you aren't interested in that - cool, if you are and want to know what the Trump campaign is doing/US MSM and alt media are reporting - it may be useful to you.
99% here don't have a vote.
Here's the Pt II of the DNC investigation. It's resulted in immediate resignation of Mr Creamer. I gather there's more to follow.
I wouldn't call most Pbers "liberal". Much more conservative than general population as whole.
We know all of this alt right/conspiracy thoery media plays very well with his base, trouble is there is zero evidence it helps him gain a single vote.
Just a thought. Given this is a betting site - and therefore those well versed in the mindset/media watching of that view would be helpful to all, I try to provide that.
Whilst I appreciate it doesn't fit with the UK centric liberal viewpoint of PB - it does help balance it out a tad. If you aren't interested in that - cool, if you are and want to know what the Trump campaign is doing/US MSM and alt media are reporting - it may be useful to you.
99% here don't have a vote.
Here's the Pt II of the DNC investigation. It's resulted in immediate resignation of Mr Creamer. I gather there's more to follow.
I wouldn't call most Pbers "liberal". Much more conservative than general population as whole.
We know all of this alt right/conspiracy thoery media plays very well with his base, trouble is there is zero evidence it helps him gain a single vote.
Have a look at the independents. There seems to be some there. Hillary isn't really gaining when Trump stumbles.
TBH, for such an exciting election and bomb shells under the US gov/media - PB is really dull handwaving. I expected much more from such a sophisticated audience. Ho hum.
Alistair Meeks is like many hard core Remainers. Having said and proclaimed that a Brexit vote would cause chaos and mayhem and having been proved wrong - at least in the short term - they now encourage any bit of chaos to happen.
It would be a good idea if all these Remoaners were transported to Greece to see what not having the guts to do a Grexit has done to that poor benighted country.
As has been said many times the short term chaos prediction was based on Cameron saying he would trigger Article 50 within a couple of days of the vote. Cameron didn't, but don't fret it will happen soon enough
Just a thought. Given this is a betting site - and therefore those well versed in the mindset/media watching of that view would be helpful to all, I try to provide that.
Whilst I appreciate it doesn't fit with the UK centric liberal viewpoint of PB - it does help balance it out a tad. If you aren't interested in that - cool, if you are and want to know what the Trump campaign is doing/US MSM and alt media are reporting - it may be useful to you.
99% here don't have a vote.
Here's the Pt II of the DNC investigation. It's resulted in immediate resignation of Mr Creamer. I gather there's more to follow.
I wouldn't call most Pbers "liberal". Much more conservative than general population as whole.
We know all of this alt right/conspiracy thoery media plays very well with his base, trouble is there is zero evidence it helps him gain a single vote.
From an American perspective we'd be liberal.
Absolutely. Socially liberal would appear to describe the majority on here IMHO.
Views on fiscal/economic matters are much more variable...
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Oh dear, that old chestnut.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.
Yes Leave won by 3.8% of the votes overall, but Remain won a majority of votes from working people, from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and London. That is why pushing through a hard Brexit etc is going to be so fractious. Yes you won but pretending you won by some sort of landslide is not helping at all - truth is without the OAPs you would have lost.
Utterly irrelevant and also not necessarily even true since most 18-24s (where Remain had it's biggest lead) aren't working anyway.
Although you would prefer it not to be the result was considerably more nuanced than "We Won, We Won, Suck it Up Losers" which is precisely why there will be so much resistance to May simply pushing through the type of Brexit she prefers.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Oh dear, that old chestnut.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.
The truth may be inconvenient for you, but it doesn't stop it being the truth.
Nor does it stop it being irrelevant. If you don't vote, you don't count.
MPs have a duty to represent the interests of all their constituents, not just the ones who vote.
If a person didn't vote in the referendum, how would the MP know how they wished to be represented?
In the way they do for all other issues. They use their judgement.
"The SNP leader told US voters not to vote for Donald Trump ahead of the election despite her party's once cosy relationship with the presidential hopeful."
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Oh dear, that old chestnut.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.
The truth may be inconvenient for you, but it doesn't stop it being the truth.
Nor does it stop it being irrelevant. If you don't vote, you don't count.
MPs have a duty to represent the interests of all their constituents, not just the ones who vote.
If a person didn't vote in the referendum, how would the MP know how they wished to be represented?
In the way they do for all other issues. They use their judgement.
Wouldn't the best guess be using the results of those who did vote? Which is the same as ignoring those who didn't
I volunteer one afternoon a week at a charity bookshop. A lady came in last week and asked which section "David Ike" books would be under. Good question. Do we have a Lizard People section in the shop?
@kevwodonnell: .@NickCohen4 on John Nicolson - 'A former BBC Journalist in the tradition of David Icke and Paul Mason'.
I see the season ticket holding riders on the outrage bus in the media are out in full force against Davies' common ground comments on the 'children' this morning...
"The SNP leader told US voters not to vote for Donald Trump ahead of the election despite her party's once cosy relationship with the presidential hopeful."
Barack Obama proved that going to another country and telling them what to do is a bad idea.
I found that any similar thoughts of my own did not survive contact with the country. Not because the USA is a land of milk and honey, it's a country that does just fine by itself.
As a matter of interest, do we have anyone writing on this site who was and is thoroughly pro-Brexit? Given that a majority of the country voted for it, there's a case to be made.
It's not true that a majority of the country voted for it.
A slim majority of those who voted, voted for it.
Oh dear, that old chestnut.
Remoaners do themselves few favours with remarks like that.
The truth may be inconvenient for you, but it doesn't stop it being the truth.
Nor does it stop it being irrelevant. If you don't vote, you don't count.
MPs have a duty to represent the interests of all their constituents, not just the ones who vote.
If a person didn't vote in the referendum, how would the MP know how they wished to be represented?
In the way they do for all other issues. They use their judgement.
Wouldn't the best guess be using the results of those who did vote? Which is the same as ignoring those who didn't
Or is there another way?
An alternative might be to look at the percentages of who voted in each age group, look at what they voted and extrapolate from that. You may also want to think about constituents who were not 18 in June, but become 18 between now and Brexit happening; then there are the old people who might die between now and then and so on. But maybe the best thing to do is decide what you think is best and go with that. As we all know, MPs are representatives, not delegates.
There were some comments out on the unemployment numbers earlier. I would forget about them. Unemployment is a very lagging indicator.
The thing I would focus on is temporary staffing data. This is the canary in the coal mine. When business improves, firms hire temps because it is quicker. When business declines, they are let go first.
The biggest temp agencies in the world are Adecco, Randstad, and Manpower. All of them will be releasing trading updates/results in the next week. Watch for what they say about the UK. If they are positive on trends, it is a very good sign that Brexit is not having a major impact. If they see firms pulling back, it could be a very negative indicator for next year.
"The SNP leader told US voters not to vote for Donald Trump ahead of the election despite her party's once cosy relationship with the presidential hopeful."
Given how Obama's intervention in the referendum went down like a bucket of cold sick, I'm surprised she didn't see the wisdom in the STFU school of diplomacy.
Just a thought. Given this is a betting site - and therefore those well versed in the mindset/media watching of that view would be helpful to all, I try to provide that.
Whilst I appreciate it doesn't fit with the UK centric liberal viewpoint of PB - it does help balance it out a tad. If you aren't interested in that - cool, if you are and want to know what the Trump campaign is doing/US MSM and alt media are reporting - it may be useful to you.
99% here don't have a vote.
Here's the Pt II of the DNC investigation. It's resulted in immediate resignation of Mr Creamer. I gather there's more to follow.
I wouldn't call most Pbers "liberal". Much more conservative than general population as whole.
We know all of this alt right/conspiracy thoery media plays very well with his base, trouble is there is zero evidence it helps him gain a single vote.
Have a look at the independents. There seems to be some there. Hillary isn't really gaining when Trump stumbles.
TBH, for such an exciting election and bomb shells under the US gov/media - PB is really dull handwaving. I expected much more from such a sophisticated audience. Ho hum.
The independents are clearly breaking for Clinton. And people on here just aren't getting excited over fake Russian propaganda being sent around by wikileaks.
I see the season ticket holding riders on the outrage bus in the media are out in full force against Davies' common ground comments on the 'children' this morning...
Well he is talking utter bollocks. A 7 month + home office vetting process is more reliable than the Sun FFS
Mr. 619, my understanding is that the FA uses MRI scans for older teens/young twentysomething footballers to help ensure that you don't get a 19 year old in an under-17 team. Said to be very accurate.
There were some comments out on the unemployment numbers earlier. I would forget about them. Unemployment is a very lagging indicator.
The thing I would focus on is temporary staffing data. This is the canary in the coal mine. When business improves, firms hire temps because it is quicker. When business declines, they are let go first.
The biggest temp agencies in the world are Adecco, Randstad, and Manpower. All of them will be releasing trading updates/results in the next week. Watch for what they say about the UK. If they are positive on trends, it is a very good sign that Brexit is not having a major impact. If they see firms pulling back, it could be a very negative indicator for next year.
Thanks for the tip!
Expect to see a talking head in the media using this line in a few days. We seem to be well ahead of the spotting of issues and analysis here...
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
SeanT is SeanT - MalcolmG with richer prose. I got bored about the tenth time he had a go at me and haven't really bewen bothered since.
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
On liberalism, the site is predominently Cameroonish, i.e. socially liberal and mildly conservative. The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...) as are the hard right, though plato seems to be moving to fill the gap. The most interesting posts IMO are from the people like DavidL who one can't quite predict!
"Remain won a majority of votes from working people, from Scotland, from Northern Ireland, Gibraltar and London."
Utterly irrelevant.
Not irrelevant to the debate about what sort of Brexit we get.
Why is it relevant?
Well for starters the debate on the type of Brexit we get is highly relevant to what happens in Scotland - it would be far less so if Scotland had voted Leave.
Interesting that they have FL in the blue column. If Clinton carries the Sunshine State, it will be an early night for everyone.
Note: despite Fox's news output being largely bilge, their Decision Desk is an impressive operation. Top mathematicians who usually beat the other networks to calling states.
I see the season ticket holding riders on the outrage bus in the media are out in full force against Davies' common ground comments on the 'children' this morning...
Well he is talking utter bollocks. A 7 month + home office vetting process is more reliable than the Sun FFS
And what about the high number of migrants who have been proven to have falsified their age using home office stats?
Basically, if the person in question looks like they are over 18 - more than half the time they are....
Interesting that they have FL in the blue column. If Clinton carries the Sunshine State, it will be an early night for everyone.
Note: despite Fox's news output being largely bilge, their Decision Desk is an impressive operation. Top mathematicians who usually beat the other networks to calling states.
538 has had Clinton winning Florida for a while. Currently she's 4% ahead.
Somebody mentioned hypernormalization "docmentary" currently being plugged on iPlayer the other day.
What utter bollocks it is. More rambling, incoherent & conspiracy theorist than a Donald trump speech
You must be in the pay of the global elite, attempting to discredit the documentary. Even the documentary itself was created by the global lizard elite, and by producing such a shit programme, they hoped to throw people off the scent.
Somebody mentioned hypernormalization "docmentary" currently being plugged on iPlayer the other day.
What utter bollocks it is. More rambling, incoherent & conspiracy theorist than a Donald trump speech
You must be in the pay of the global elite, attempting to discredit the documentary. Even the documentary itself was created by the global lizard elite, and by producing such a shit programme, they hoped to throw people off the scent.
They're clever like that.
I think that is more rational than the actual documentary premise!
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...)
I'd always assumed that's because PB seems to appeal to a pretty smart demographic. The crossover between intelligent individuals and Corbyn supporters is limited (and includes you, Mr Palmer, obviously!).
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
And it's still only barely economic for farmers.
Bonkers.
and they say the CAP is a mess... (it is a mess, I know)
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
And it's still only barely economic for farmers.
Bonkers.
Us farming "business" is bonkers in many areas, which has led to fructose corn syrup to increasing practice where farmers don't own chickens they raise (they are Lent to them by a few massive providers who set the terms / prices at every step. They control both supply of chicks & market at end) .
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
SeanT is SeanT - MalcolmG with richer prose. I got bored about the tenth time he had a go at me and haven't really bewen bothered since.
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
On liberalism, the site is predominently Cameroonish, i.e. socially liberal and mildly conservative. The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...) as are the hard right, though plato seems to be moving to fill the gap. The most interesting posts IMO are from the people like DavidL who one can't quite predict!
Interesting perspective - thanks Nick. For similar reasons I find Southam's comments the most enlightening - apart from approaches to the state I think we'd be in the same party....though I'm not quite sure which one of us would switch.
On relaxation - three things. One, there remains a significant group who are not accepting the result. This presents us Brexiteers with a problem rarely encountered in our generally accepting country; so we feel like we keep having to re-win the debate as until there is acceptance there will be neither harmony not progress. Two, there is still an awful lot to decide - I was in the end prouder of my leave vote on June 23rd than any of my previous votes, but understand how much is in the balance with the decision to Leave. And three, we didn't necessarily expect to win. What was once a minority view has become mainstream - it's decidedly odd and we're still coping with that ourselves.
Finally - bless you for thinking that a quarter of the population (not even voters - population!!) really like Corbyn. I'd be surprised if it is more than 5-10% really like any politician. You fall into that small minority for Corbyn as I do for May. The trick is not to be hated by the majority - for reasons of action, words and character. His policies probably turn 40% of voters straight off, another 20% will likely be turned off by his past stances re Ireland, the Mid East etc, and if his character turns off a lot of his own MPs, I don't hold out much hope that a lot of therest of the population will enjoy it...
"I accept that seeing a TV journalist behave like a print journalist might surprise someone brought up in Britain’s pre-Internet broadcast culture. But Daisley was hardly a shock jock. He proved a stylish and independent columnist. He damned the right for its dislike of immigrants and refugees and the left (including the SNP left) for its alliances with Islamists and anti-Semites. Daisley was sceptical about the SNP’s promises, but gave Nicola Sturgeon credit when he felt it due. She was ‘a tribal Nationalist, to be sure,’ he declared, at one point ‘but one at ease with other points of view’.
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
And it's still only barely economic for farmers.
Bonkers.
The various American farm subsidies are beyond bonkers, especially around sugar. It makes CAP look sane and sensible.
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
And it's still only barely economic for farmers.
Bonkers.
For goodness sake don't read about US cotton subsidies, blue boxes, etc..
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
SeanT is SeanT - MalcolmG with richer prose. I got bored about the tenth time he had a go at me and haven't really bewen bothered since.
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
On liberalism, the site is predominently Cameroonish, i.e. socially liberal and mildly conservative. The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...) as are the hard right, though plato seems to be moving to fill the gap. The most interesting posts IMO are from the people like DavidL who one can't quite predict!
Good Morning
I asked you a direct question last week when I joined the site that you haven't acknowledged or answered.
You posted that there was no hypocrisy with politicians denying the population the choice between grammar schools and comprehensives while sending their own children to Grammars, and made an analogy with health provision.
I think a better analogy would be to imagine there were hospitals that only treated patients who didn't smoke, didn't drink more than 14 units of alcohol per week, were the correct BMI & didn't take illegal drugs. These hospitals were free at the point of use & considered the equal of private hospitals, but there were very few of them about and they were concentrated in one or two counties.
There was also a very expensive (though cheaper than private healthcare) drug on sale in certain shops, that could hoodwink the test so that even smokers, drinkers, drug takers and the morbidly obese could pass it and have access these hospitals.
Would it be ok with you if politicians used these hospitals for themselves and their children, while refusing to allow similar hospitals to be opened in poorer areas where people living healthier lifestyles than the politicians, and those unable to afford the magic drug (private tuition), were given inferior treatment, had longer waiting lists and more crowded wards?
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
And it's still only barely economic for farmers.
Bonkers.
For goodness sake don't read about US cotton subsidies, blue boxes, etc..
It will make you tear your hair out.
The Anglosphere doesn't do things like that. Daniel Hannan told me.
Hahaha! The EUn will have collapsed completely, and the Universe will have gone beyond its final heat death, before the people of this country ever want to re-join the EU again.
So "another referendum on the same issue" is in the air?
One thing that hasn't changed is that Scotland has no right to belong to the EU and would have to apply for membership. Belonging to the single market but not the EU - probably meaning customs posts on the border with England - would be akin to using sterling without having a say over monetary policy. In short, it's a load of old cock, although if they wrap it in the saltire and denounce their opponents as "talking Scotland down", Sturgeon's party may be able to sell it to a large proportion of their own supporters.
Scotland wouldn't be like Norway with the oil and the big sovereign fund.
The SNP is full of "me me me" pork belly-chasing types who dream of getting as many grants out of the EU as politicians and their business supporters do in Ireland. That's what the EU means for them. They can dream away, but the talk of a second referendum is a waste of public money. Brexit would change so little in Scotland that the SNP's barefaced assertion that the Euref result necessitates tearing up the indyref mandate - which was very clearly to keep the union - is utterly dishonest and self-serving. If the Greens had any backbone they would bring the minority SNP government down. But they haven't and won't.
How can you say that being removed from the EU and the single market against their will does not constitute a major change?
Because "they" voted to be "us" by 45/55 quite recently. There is (currently) no "they" at the express vote of the Scottish people.
Hahaha! The EUn will have collapsed completely, and the Universe will have gone beyond its final heat death, before the people of this country ever want to re-join the EU again.
If James O'Keefe told me water was wet and the sky was blue I'd be asking for corroboration from independent sources before I believed him.
You really are the most partisan ninny - this covert footage has resulted in two very senior DNC figures getting the push - and possibly up for criminal charges.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll - it's like claiming MPs didn't cheat their expenses.
If its handwaving to say that a Trump election will cause us in the UK untold extra problems then I'm waving. Blowing up half the Middle East because someone sent him an offensive tweet and he was in a bad mood that day will have plenty of implications for us.
And this waving of hands does precisely what since the number of people on this forum that have a vote in the USA can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
SeanT is SeanT - MalcolmG with richer prose. I got bored about the tenth time he had a go at me and haven't really bewen bothered since.
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
The fact that there are a significant number of continuity Remainers working as hard as they can to frustrate the democratically-expressed will of the British people might just possibly have a little something to do with that.
Yes, there's a nasty fascism creeping in about Brexit and any of those who challenge its proponents' worldview. SeanT called Remainers traitors as a term of common abuse. Several idiots on here actually believe it.
SeanT is SeanT - MalcolmG with richer prose. I got bored about the tenth time he had a go at me and haven't really bewen bothered since.
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
On liberalism, the site is predominently Cameroonish, i.e. socially liberal and mildly conservative. The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...) as are the hard right, though plato seems to be moving to fill the gap. The most interesting posts IMO are from the people like DavidL who one can't quite predict!
You have Plato on the ultra-hard right, and GeoffM and Moniker not far behind her.
Re: where do I sit? I find I agree most with the Scottish Nationalist posters these days!
The fact that there are a significant number of continuity Remainers working as hard as they can to frustrate the democratically-expressed will of the British people might just possibly have a little something to do with that.
Or more realistically the realisation of just how horrific Brexit will be is dawning on some of the smarter Brexiteers. Some still have a long way to go...
Comments
Weakened pound.
Reduced investment.
More unemployment.
Rising prices.
"With RBS and HBOS – two of the world’s biggest banks – Scotland has global leaders today, tomorrow and for the long-term." (Alex Salmond's March 2008 "Scotland will be a Celtic Lion" speech, which has since been scrubbed from the internet)
For quite a few years now I've believed that this obsession with short term data is harming politics and economics. There seems to be little appreciation that you have to weigh up the significance of data, accept that many things are hard to measure accurately or precisely, and that you should not extrapolate trends from small changes over short durations. It becomes a distraction from the things that really matter, long term policy decisions and trends.
Leave won.
Remainers have two choices: (1) work with Leavers to deliver the best Leave, or (2) sit on the sidelines carping, moaning and working to frustrate the will of the British people.
Don't be a number 2.
It is becoming clear that the final Brexit deal will need parliamentary approval and I cannot see a majority voting through a hard Brexit package.
I imagine if voting to leave meant abolishing recessions forever and banishing the downward part of the business cycle it would've gotten rather more than 52%.
I'm genuinely amazed at the handwaving on here - 99% don't have a vote and yet acting like our lives depend on it.
If I see another 'there's no voter fraud' claim, I'll
The one thing that acts against a second referendum is there has been four years continuous constitutional wrangling in Scotland. People are tired of it.
My guess is that there will be a Catalonia style unauthorised referendum. Independence will get 80% of the vote on a 40% turnout. People opposed won't show up.
This will make it a good night for the SNP because they will be the main beneficiary of this. Any gains that the tories make in the borders, Aberdeenshire, Perth & Kinross etc will pale by comparison. It would be nice if the tories got a council or two though.
As has been said many times the short term chaos prediction was based on Cameron saying he would trigger Article 50 within a couple of days of the vote. Cameron didn't, but don't fret it will happen soon enough
We know all of this alt right/conspiracy thoery media plays very well with his base, trouble is there is zero evidence it helps him gain a single vote.
The previous white paper has been utterly discredited on the economy - the referendum is unwinnable unless oil hits $100+ and probably more.
O'Keefe was sued and paid out $100,000 to the employee that got fired and apologised due to his lying bullshit.
And you seem to care a whole lot more about proving Trump to be a fit president compared to most other Trump Rampers on here, despite him being a crazy racist who has admitted to sexually abusing women.
'Joining/re-joining will not happen overnight. In the intervening period, the Scots cannot use the potato as a currency, they need some sort of coinage.'
A turnip seems to be favorite ?
TBH, for such an exciting election and bomb shells under the US gov/media - PB is really dull handwaving. I expected much more from such a sophisticated audience. Ho hum.
Don't be a number 2.
Views on fiscal/economic matters are much more variable...
The next 25 years of her career, for a start.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/722430/Nicola-Sturgeon-slapped-down-by-America-and-tells-her-to-RESPECT-the-will-of-the-people
"The SNP leader told US voters not to vote for Donald Trump ahead of the election despite her party's once cosy relationship with the presidential hopeful."
Or is there another way?
Ouch.
Clinton 307 .. Trump 181 .. Toss-Up 50
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-race
I found that any similar thoughts of my own did not survive contact with the country. Not because the USA is a land of milk and honey, it's a country that does just fine by itself.
The thing I would focus on is temporary staffing data. This is the canary in the coal mine. When business improves, firms hire temps because it is quicker. When business declines, they are let go first.
The biggest temp agencies in the world are Adecco, Randstad, and Manpower. All of them will be releasing trading updates/results in the next week. Watch for what they say about the UK. If they are positive on trends, it is a very good sign that Brexit is not having a major impact. If they see firms pulling back, it could be a very negative indicator for next year.
There is a far higher proportion of lib Dems here, for example...
" the email, Podesta told Clinton that senior staffers “did a first cut of people to consider for VP.”
“I have organized names in rough food groups,” Podesta wrote to Clinton.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/18/food-groups-emails-show-clinton-campaign-organized-potential-vps-by-race-and-gender/#ixzz4NURlQGZ7
Expect to see a talking head in the media using this line in a few days. We seem to be well ahead of the spotting of issues and analysis here...
But it does feel odd that Brexiteers aren't more relaxed, magnaminous, etc. I don't think they are quite sure they are relaly going to get what they want, insofar as they know what they want.
On liberalism, the site is predominently Cameroonish, i.e. socially liberal and mildly conservative. The 25% of the population who really like Corbyn is under-represented (BJO, me, and er...) as are the hard right, though plato seems to be moving to fill the gap. The most interesting posts IMO are from the people like DavidL who one can't quite predict!
Note: despite Fox's news output being largely bilge, their Decision Desk is an impressive operation. Top mathematicians who usually beat the other networks to calling states.
Basically, if the person in question looks like they are over 18 - more than half the time they are....
What utter bollocks it is. More rambling, incoherent & conspiracy theorist than a Donald trump speech
* Even taking fairly generous assumptions about input prices.
They're clever like that.
DYOR re debate.
As a hit-job, this seems likely to me.
Jill Stein: "If Hillary gets elected, we're going to war with Russia, a nuclear armed power." https://t.co/0mp7JVSWy1
I've seen a few tweets from her that imply vote for Trump as anti war candidate.
Jesus. I've just been reading about the US sugar beet subsidies. There are subsidies for farmer; subsidies for processors; and then a guaranteed price at the far end for blending into ethanol. And land is much cheaper than the UK.
And it's still only barely economic for farmers.
Bonkers.
atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/hs92/121291/
Reality has a well known liberal bias.
On relaxation - three things. One, there remains a significant group who are not accepting the result. This presents us Brexiteers with a problem rarely encountered in our generally accepting country; so we feel like we keep having to re-win the debate as until there is acceptance there will be neither harmony not progress. Two, there is still an awful lot to decide - I was in the end prouder of my leave vote on June 23rd than any of my previous votes, but understand how much is in the balance with the decision to Leave. And three, we didn't necessarily expect to win. What was once a minority view has become mainstream - it's decidedly odd and we're still coping with that ourselves.
Finally - bless you for thinking that a quarter of the population (not even voters - population!!) really like Corbyn. I'd be surprised if it is more than 5-10% really like any politician. You fall into that small minority for Corbyn as I do for May. The trick is not to be hated by the majority - for reasons of action, words and character. His policies probably turn 40% of voters straight off, another 20% will likely be turned off by his past stances re Ireland, the Mid East etc, and if his character turns off a lot of his own MPs, I don't hold out much hope that a lot of therest of the population will enjoy it...
"I accept that seeing a TV journalist behave like a print journalist might surprise someone brought up in Britain’s pre-Internet broadcast culture. But Daisley was hardly a shock jock. He proved a stylish and independent columnist. He damned the right for its dislike of immigrants and refugees and the left (including the SNP left) for its alliances with Islamists and anti-Semites. Daisley was sceptical about the SNP’s promises, but gave Nicola Sturgeon credit when he felt it due. She was ‘a tribal Nationalist, to be sure,’ he declared, at one point ‘but one at ease with other points of view’.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/press-censorship-begun-scotland/
It will make you tear your hair out.
I asked you a direct question last week when I joined the site that you haven't acknowledged or answered.
You posted that there was no hypocrisy with politicians denying the population the choice between grammar schools and comprehensives while sending their own children to Grammars, and made an analogy with health provision.
I think a better analogy would be to imagine there were hospitals that only treated patients who didn't smoke, didn't drink more than 14 units of alcohol per week, were the correct BMI & didn't take illegal drugs. These hospitals were free at the point of use & considered the equal of private hospitals, but there were very few of them about and they were concentrated in one or two counties.
There was also a very expensive (though cheaper than private healthcare) drug on sale in certain shops, that could hoodwink the test so that even smokers, drinkers, drug takers and the morbidly obese could pass it and have access these hospitals.
Would it be ok with you if politicians used these hospitals for themselves and their children, while refusing to allow similar hospitals to be opened in poorer areas where people living healthier lifestyles than the politicians, and those unable to afford the magic drug (private tuition), were given inferior treatment, had longer waiting lists and more crowded wards?
Essentially, it requires a lot of land, nice weather, a lot of fertilisers, and you are only going to get one harvest a year.
And then yields in the UK are less than half what you achieve in Chile (where land and labour are both massively cheaper).
When you've finally grown it, you need to compete with imported sugar cane.
Without subsidies, no one in the UK (or Europe) would grow sugar beet.
Hahaha! The EUn will have collapsed completely, and the Universe will have gone beyond its final heat death, before the people of this country ever want to re-join the EU again.
I remember Ted Cruz mentioning something or other about ethanol subsidies in Iowa.
British Army
Being a #soldier in the jungle requires a robust sense of humour https://t.co/sr9f3OfVsE
Re: where do I sit? I find I agree most with the Scottish Nationalist posters these days!