politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Great (Br)expectations, why Tories don’t want a snap election
Comments
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Trump leads on early voting there thenweejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,3880 -
Not that New York, either - more Arkansas and Washington.HYUFD said:
Hillary is not that liberal, she is a hawk and has already rowed back from TPP to suit the climate while a GOP congress would limit her room for manoeuvreJobabob said:
A win's a win. A liberal New York internationalist as leader of the free world.HYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
My own reluctant view is that politically she is the better alternative on offer. However, I would pay good money to sit opposite Trump at dinner, and ten times as much not to have to be in the same room as Hillary. And if May does the traditional smarmy whining about special relationships when she comes a-calling I shall never vote tory again.0 -
I wanted run my understanding of the Customs Union and the advantages and disadvantages past PB experts:Scott_P said:@tnewtondunn: Excl: Cabinet split on Brexit growing over whether to stay in EU's customs union - 'will see Hammond or Fox walking'
thesun.co.uk/news/1919730/b…
I am on Fox at 10/1...
ADVANTAGES of REMAINING in CUSTOM UNION
1. Tariff -free transit of industrial goods with the EU/EEA(but not services or agriculture)
2 Ready-made set of free trade agreements with third party countries already negotiated by the EU. DIY will result in a long gap while the new deals are negotiated. The EU has more market clout than the UK to get better deals
3. Much lower burden of red tape as exporters with supply chains don’t require origination certification for the components nor for finished products
4. UK negotiators can concentrate on the key EU and WTO arrangements. They are spread too thin to take on third country negotiations as well.
5. Early commitment to a Customs Union would remove uncertainty for investment in UK industrials (think Nissan in Sunderland).
BONUS advantage! Possible redundancy for Liam Fox
ADVANTAGES of LEAVING the CUSTOM UNION
1. The UK can unilaterally reduce its import duties allowing them to compete better with EU countries on price for finished products to third countries
2. The UK may be more flexible in negotiating deals with third countries and so have a higher chance of success than the EU does.
Is that a fair summary? If so, an early commitment to the EU Customs Union is compelling, because there are more advantages and more immediately useful ones. The politics may say otherwise of course. What do people think?
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I am sure TSE will love thatSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/752644694140719104HYUFD said:
I expect May's speech was rather more to your tastes than TSE's!Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, no. TINO!HYUFD said:
Cameron = CINO?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blair = LINOHYUFD said:
Mind you Blair was also arguably right of Macmillan, Heath and Major on economics tooSeanT said:
Yes, possibly to the left of Blair, on economics. Remarkable.HYUFD said:
Yes, Theresa May is more economically leftwing than Blair and not that much more economically rightwing than Brown. Though on social issues she is the most rightwing since ThatcherSeanT said:
Incredibly good for her. TUC praise. The CBI skeptical.HYUFD said:
She is PM until at least 2025 for meSeanT said:May's speech looking quite good on BBC Ten. Centrist, generous, covering a lot of bases. She will be popular. For now.
But the CBI are never going to vote for Corbyn.
Theresa May is the best that Labour voters could hope for, given that their own leader is a crazy IRA-loving Marxist who will never win. The Left is fucked.
I trolled TSE about being a TINO on the previous thread
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Early voting for "None"????weejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,3880 -
Not on immigration and the EU she isn't! Probably not on abortion eitherglw said:
Bernie Sanders is liberal, Hilary Clinton is more right wing than Theresa May.HYUFD said:Hillary is not that liberal, she is a hawk and has already rowed back from TPP to suit the climate while a GOP congress would limit her room for manoeuvre
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EU Mini Mart v Brexit Globalist Entrepreneurs.HYUFD said:
At the moment it is largely internationalist, free market liberals, versus nationalist, anti immigration populists yesSeanT said:
Or this whole left right thing is now useless.HYUFD said:
Mind you Blair was also arguably right of Macmillan, Heath and Major on economics tooSeanT said:
Yes, possibly to the left of Blair, on economics. Remarkable.HYUFD said:
Yes, Theresa May is more economically leftwing than Blair and not that much more economically rightwing than Brown. Though on social issues she is the most rightwing since ThatcherSeanT said:
Incredibly good for her. TUC praise. The CBI skeptical.HYUFD said:
She is PM until at least 2025 for meSeanT said:May's speech looking quite good on BBC Ten. Centrist, generous, covering a lot of bases. She will be popular. For now.
But the CBI are never going to vote for Corbyn.
Theresa May is the best that Labour voters could hope for, given that their own leader is a crazy IRA-loving Marxist who will never win. The Left is fucked.
Its globalists versus nativists, statists versus individualists, and the idiot frenzied PC identity-obsessed transgender Corbynite left versus electoral reality.0 -
Early voting by registration. We do not know whether people are voting the same as their official registration.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Early voting for "None"????weejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,3880 -
Party affiliation.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Early voting for "None"????weejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,3880 -
I think that's the Black Watch tartan she's wearing. A subliminal nod to Amber's plans for scrutinising immigrants.Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/752644694140719104HYUFD said:
I expect May's speech was rather more to your tastes than TSE's!Sunil_Prasannan said:
No, no. TINO!HYUFD said:
Cameron = CINO?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Blair = LINOHYUFD said:
Mind you Blair was also arguably right of Macmillan, Heath and Major on economics tooSeanT said:
Yes, possibly to the left of Blair, on economics. Remarkable.HYUFD said:
Yes, Theresa May is more economically leftwing than Blair and not that much more economically rightwing than Brown. Though on social issues she is the most rightwing since ThatcherSeanT said:
Incredibly good for her. TUC praise. The CBI skeptical.HYUFD said:
She is PM until at least 2025 for meSeanT said:May's speech looking quite good on BBC Ten. Centrist, generous, covering a lot of bases. She will be popular. For now.
But the CBI are never going to vote for Corbyn.
Theresa May is the best that Labour voters could hope for, given that their own leader is a crazy IRA-loving Marxist who will never win. The Left is fucked.
I trolled TSE about being a TINO on the previous thread0 -
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There will be no 'special relationship' smarming with Hillary and May as there was with Bush/Clinton and Blair or Cameron and Obama, it will be a businesslike relationship, apart from Brexit May is probably the least interested in Foreign Policy PM we have had since CallaghanIshmael_X said:
Not that New York, either - more Arkansas and Washington.HYUFD said:
Hillary is not that liberal, she is a hawk and has already rowed back from TPP to suit the climate while a GOP congress would limit her room for manoeuvreJobabob said:
A win's a win. A liberal New York internationalist as leader of the free world.HYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
My own reluctant view is that politically she is the better alternative on offer. However, I would pay good money to sit opposite Trump at dinner, and ten times as much not to have to be in the same room as Hillary. And if May does the traditional smarmy whining about special relationships when she comes a-calling I shall never vote tory again.0 -
As good a summary as anychestnut said:
EU Mini Mart v Brexit Globalist Entrepreneurs.HYUFD said:
At the moment it is largely internationalist, free market liberals, versus nationalist, anti immigration populists yesSeanT said:
Or this whole left right thing is now useless.HYUFD said:
Mind you Blair was also arguably right of Macmillan, Heath and Major on economics tooSeanT said:
Yes, possibly to the left of Blair, on economics. Remarkable.HYUFD said:
Yes, Theresa May is more economically leftwing than Blair and not that much more economically rightwing than Brown. Though on social issues she is the most rightwing since ThatcherSeanT said:
Incredibly good for her. TUC praise. The CBI skeptical.HYUFD said:
She is PM until at least 2025 for meSeanT said:May's speech looking quite good on BBC Ten. Centrist, generous, covering a lot of bases. She will be popular. For now.
But the CBI are never going to vote for Corbyn.
Theresa May is the best that Labour voters could hope for, given that their own leader is a crazy IRA-loving Marxist who will never win. The Left is fucked.
Its globalists versus nativists, statists versus individualists, and the idiot frenzied PC identity-obsessed transgender Corbynite left versus electoral reality.0 -
I'm with you brother ;-)SeanT said:
There I stand with her. She's absolutely right to do that.foxinsoxuk said:
There is a lot of it about. May seems obsessed with the Working Class.SeanT said:
Ooh, I dunno. Scot Nats. Feminazis. Europhile diehards.foxinsoxuk said:
Few people are more identity obsessed than Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Or this whole left right thing is now useless.HYUFD said:
Mind you Blair was also arguably right of Macmillan, Heath and Major on economics tooSeanT said:
Yes, possibly to the left of Blair, on economics. Remarkable.HYUFD said:
Yes, Theresa May is more economically leftwing than Blair and not that much more economically rightwing than Brown. Though on social issues she is the most rightwing since ThatcherSeanT said:
Incredibly good for her. TUC praise. The CBI skeptical.HYUFD said:
She is PM until at least 2025 for meSeanT said:May's speech looking quite good on BBC Ten. Centrist, generous, covering a lot of bases. She will be popular. For now.
But the CBI are never going to vote for Corbyn.
Theresa May is the best that Labour voters could hope for, given that their own leader is a crazy IRA-loving Marxist who will never win. The Left is fucked.
Its globalists versus nativists, statists versus individualists, and the idiot frenzied PC identity-obsessed transgender Corbynite left versus electoral reality.
Who is most likely to fail, educationally, right now?
White working class boys.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2016/09/lost-boys-how-white-working-class-got-left-behind
Fuck this. These are our kids. Labour despises them, and prefers migrants. I don't. They're my kith and kin. Save them. Help them.0 -
Just going by the national polls in 2012, it became a real dogfight starting in the first week of October. Romney was either leading by one or two, or was tied. From then on, it pretty much went back and forth.0
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Probably not real. After all, yours truly was born in Johnny Foreigner Land.Theuniondivvie said:0 -
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
How does that compare to 2012?HYUFD said:
Trump leads on early voting there thenweejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,388
I am led to believe that Republicans always have a large by-mail early ballot advantage in the state (in-person early voting advantage for the Dems, which shows later)0 -
There is nothing Clinton it saying that hasn't been said before by Democrat candidates, going back decades for some issues. If you vote Clinton you aren't voting for change but more of the same. The problems America has will persist, and come 2020 a pissed off electorate might vote for a candidate worse than Trump (although I admit it's hard to name such a person who could get nominated).Ishmael_X said:Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
Obama had the whole Hope and Change thing, even if he didn't deliver a great deal. What does Hilary have? She's not a lunatic; now that's why you have to vote for her, but don't get your hopes up, she will likely be a very disappointing President.0 -
Missed the outrage bus as I was knocked over by you galloping towards the outraged by outrage bus.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
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Just imagine if corbyn was Pm now,he would be bringing a immigration crisis to this country because he and his supporters are in the merkel camp when it comes to mass migration of asylum seekers.SeanT said:
Who would do better for them? Immigration loving Corbyn? Immigration loving Farron? Immigration loving Osborne/Cameron? Unelectable Farage?foxinsoxuk said:
She will look after them as well as my cat looks after a mouse.SeanT said:
There I stand with her. She's absolutely right to do that.foxinsoxuk said:
There is a lot of it about. May seems obsessed with the Working Class.SeanT said:
Ooh, I dunno. Scot Nats. Feminazis. Europhile diehards.foxinsoxuk said:
Few people are more identity obsessed than Brexiteers.SeanT said:
Or this whole left right thing is now useless.HYUFD said:
Mind you Blair was also arguably right of Macmillan, Heath and Major on economics tooSeanT said:
Yes, possibly to the left of Blair, on economics. Remarkable.HYUFD said:
Yes, Theresa May is more economically leftwing than Blair and not that much more economically rightwing than Brown. Though on social issues she is the most rightwing since ThatcherSeanT said:
Incredibly good for her. TUC praise. The CBI skeptical.HYUFD said:
She is PM until at least 2025 for meSeanT said:May's speech looking quite good on BBC Ten. Centrist, generous, covering a lot of bases. She will be popular. For now.
But the CBI are never going to vote for Corbyn.
Theresa May is the best that Labour voters could hope for, given that their own leader is a crazy IRA-loving Marxist who will never win. The Left is fucked.
Its globalists versus nativists, statists versus individualists, and the idiot frenzied PC identity-obsessed transgender Corbynite left versus electoral reality.
Who is most likely to fail, educationally, right now?
White working class boys.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2016/09/lost-boys-how-white-working-class-got-left-behind
Fuck this. These are our kids. Labour despises them, and prefers migrants. I don't. They're my kith and kin. Save them. Help them.
Theresa May is the best chance these people have. And I wish her well, on that basis, even if I disagree with much of what she says.0 -
''EU Mini Mart v Brexit Globalist Entrepreneurs.''
If only Theresa was an globalist entrepreneur. Zero evidence of that today. Plenty of bile for business and people with money. poking her nose everywhere. Nothing on the free market. Big distrust of 'individualists' Workers on boards FFS.
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You're welcome.Theuniondivvie said:
Missed the outrage bus as I was knocked over by you galloping towards the outraged by outrage bus.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.
0 -
Interesting that Daily Mail, Sun and Mirror didn't think May's big speech was worthy of front page.0
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The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
Merkel herself isn't, and never has been, 'in the Merkel camp' in the sense you mean.Tykejohnno said:Just imagine if corbyn was Pm now,he would be bringing a immigration crisis to this country because he and his supporters are in the merkel camp when it comes to mass migration of asylum seekers.
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Yes, we have returned one of these for our daughter (we didn't get the 'we'll fill you in as British if you don't reply' bit, afaik).Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
The presentation would be from the school, presumably? It is a letter to parents - not intended to be scrutinised from a PC point of view.FF43 said:
The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.
The fact that so much is viewed through such a prism shows how far the Blairite/Cameroon pandering has gone.
The information is needed by the school, so they've asked for it. In t'north they have phrases for this, one of which involves spades.0 -
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.0 -
Perhaps remember that when you next criticise groups in your traditional generalised way. Tories, for example.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.0 -
t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.0 -
It actually makes something of a refreshing change to have a PM who is not constantly sucking up to the super rich and big business a la Blair and Cameron but is ready to stand up for the average worker. May is no socialist but nor is she mesmerised by money eithertaffys said:''EU Mini Mart v Brexit Globalist Entrepreneurs.''
If only Theresa was an globalist entrepreneur. Zero evidence of that today. Plenty of bile for business and people with money. poking her nose everywhere. Nothing on the free market. Big distrust of 'individualists' Workers on boards FFS.0 -
Thank goodness it didn't take place during a febrile atmosphere permeated by accusations of xenophobia & racism, countered by accusations of manufactured outrage and 'nothing to see here'.FF43 said:
The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
Ted Cruz 2020?glw said:
There is nothing Clinton it saying that hasn't been said before by Democrat candidates, going back decades for some issues. If you vote Clinton you aren't voting for change but more of the same. The problems America has will persist, and come 2020 a pissed off electorate might vote for a candidate worse than Trump (although I admit it's hard to name such a person who could get nominated).Ishmael_X said:Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
Obama had the whole Hope and Change thing, even if he didn't deliver a great deal. What does Hilary have? She's not a lunatic; now that's why you have to vote for her, but don't get your hopes up, she will likely be a very disappointing President.0 -
We shall seeJobabob said:
How does that compare to 2012?HYUFD said:
Trump leads on early voting there thenweejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,388
I am led to believe that Republicans always have a large by-mail early ballot advantage in the state (in-person early voting advantage for the Dems, which shows later)0 -
Why would I be scrutinising this from a PC point of view, rather than as possible parent receiving the text? You really don't give people credit for having even the tiniest imagination.Mortimer said:
The presentation would be from the school, presumably? It is a letter to parents - not intended to be scrutinised from a PC point of view.FF43 said:
The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.
The fact that so much is viewed through such a prism shows how far the Blairite/Cameroon pandering has gone.
The information is needed by the school, so they've asked for it. In t'north they have phrases for this, one of which involves spades.0 -
Find me a post in which I do that.Mortimer said:
Perhaps remember that when you next criticise groups in your traditional generalised way. Tories, for example.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
A clue: you won't.0 -
Thank goodness it won't be interpreted as anything out of the ordinary by any but those outrage bus season ticket holders.Theuniondivvie said:
Thank goodness it didn't take place during a febrile atmosphere of accusations of xenophobia & racism, countered by accusations of manufactured outrage and 'nothing to see here'.FF43 said:
The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
I don't think so. There are few second chances in American politics. Hillary is an exception.HYUFD said:
Ted Cruz 2020?glw said:
There is nothing Clinton it saying that hasn't been said before by Democrat candidates, going back decades for some issues. If you vote Clinton you aren't voting for change but more of the same. The problems America has will persist, and come 2020 a pissed off electorate might vote for a candidate worse than Trump (although I admit it's hard to name such a person who could get nominated).Ishmael_X said:Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
Obama had the whole Hope and Change thing, even if he didn't deliver a great deal. What does Hilary have? She's not a lunatic; now that's why you have to vote for her, but don't get your hopes up, she will likely be a very disappointing President.0 -
I merely asked a genuine question – as without a benchmark this data is useless (or near useless). I tried to find one briefly, but was unable.HYUFD said:
We shall seeJobabob said:
How does that compare to 2012?HYUFD said:
Trump leads on early voting there thenweejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,388
I am led to believe that Republicans always have a large by-mail early ballot advantage in the state (in-person early voting advantage for the Dems, which shows later)0 -
It's a generalisation, of course, and one that doesn't include me for instance. But ludicrous? If Remainers had generally shown more interest in those that were left behind we would probably still be in the EU. The result was close enough that there were several factors that made the difference between remaining and leaving. That was one of them.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.0 -
Urm, didn't have to look very hard. From yesterday:Jobabob said:
Find me a post in which I do that.Mortimer said:
Perhaps remember that when you next criticise groups in your traditional generalised way. Tories, for example.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
A clue: you won't.
'There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.'0 -
Hear, hear Sean. Similarly, my corp taxes don't need to be reduced. They didn't need to be reduced from 21%. If it helped the working class kids in Rhyl, where most of my family live, I'd be happy to see it go back up to that.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
I'm sure Mr. Meeks will agree? Oh, wait, doesn't he want Leavers to pay for Brexit, entirely missing the point of what part of the Leave vote was about....0 -
I am not at all convinced that those Daily Mail readers want to tax home owners in the Shires to build council housing in Middlesborough and Grammar schools in Southend.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
Indeed It may well be that TICIPM is more out of touch with her party than Dave ever was. She possibly may get away with it for a while as there is no alternative.0 -
That was a reference to the leadership, during a a thread on the leadership as you well know. I was not referring to all Tories, as the context clearly shows.Mortimer said:
Urm, didn't have to look very hard. From yesterday:Jobabob said:
Find me a post in which I do that.Mortimer said:
Perhaps remember that when you next criticise groups in your traditional generalised way. Tories, for example.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
A clue: you won't.
'There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.'0 -
We will only really find out on election nightJobabob said:
I merely asked a genuine question – as without a benchmark this data is useless (or near useless). I tried to find one briefly, but was unable.HYUFD said:
We shall seeJobabob said:
How does that compare to 2012?HYUFD said:
Trump leads on early voting there thenweejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,388
I am led to believe that Republicans always have a large by-mail early ballot advantage in the state (in-person early voting advantage for the Dems, which shows later)0 -
Is the PB Tory 5 minute rebuttal position salaried or gratuitous?Mortimer said:
Thank goodness it won't be interpreted as anything out of the ordinary by any but those outrage bus season ticket holders.Theuniondivvie said:
Thank goodness it didn't take place during a febrile atmosphere of accusations of xenophobia & racism, countered by accusations of manufactured outrage and 'nothing to see here'.FF43 said:
The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
She might be out of touch with your caricature of the party, or the politically invovlved in general, but not the reality. No-one who has ever knocked on doors canvassing for hours in the pouring rain doesn't care about people in council houses in Middlesborough or Grammars in Essex.foxinsoxuk said:
I am not at all convinced that those Daily Mail readers want to tax home owners in the Shires to build council housing in Middlesborough and Grammar schools in Southend.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
Indeed It may well be that TICIPM is more out of touch with her party than Dave ever was. She possibly may get away with it for a while as there is no alternative.0 -
There certainly are on the GOP side, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41, Dole, McCain and Romney all lost their first run for Presidentfoxinsoxuk said:
I don't think so. There are few second chances in American politics. Hillary is an exception.HYUFD said:
Ted Cruz 2020?glw said:
There is nothing Clinton it saying that hasn't been said before by Democrat candidates, going back decades for some issues. If you vote Clinton you aren't voting for change but more of the same. The problems America has will persist, and come 2020 a pissed off electorate might vote for a candidate worse than Trump (although I admit it's hard to name such a person who could get nominated).Ishmael_X said:Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
Obama had the whole Hope and Change thing, even if he didn't deliver a great deal. What does Hilary have? She's not a lunatic; now that's why you have to vote for her, but don't get your hopes up, she will likely be a very disappointing President.0 -
No what I am saying is that early voting can indeed be a pointer to results (and betting) but we need a benchmark.HYUFD said:
We will only really find out on election nightJobabob said:
I merely asked a genuine question – as without a benchmark this data is useless (or near useless). I tried to find one briefly, but was unable.HYUFD said:
We shall seeJobabob said:
How does that compare to 2012?HYUFD said:
Trump leads on early voting there thenweejonnie said:
Early voting from FloridaHYUFD said:
If Hillary does win she will face a GOP congress and I remain of the view if she does win it will be by literally scraping homeJobabob said:
Not really. History is written by the winners, even when its close (see Brexit).Ishmael_X said:
Not really. The fact that Trump is even remotely in contention at this stage supports the argument set out in your 2nd paragraph almost as much as an actual win would.Jobabob said:So I have been thinking about a possible (probable?) Hillary win, and its impacts.
We were assured that Brexit was the thin end of the wedge, that the liberal establishment was doomed, that the socially conservative anti-immigration white working class was in the ascendancy, that metropolitan attitudes were under siege.
And so too it seemed, what with May and Rudd and all.
The Trump rampers (Moniker Di Canio, RodCrosby, Plato etc etc etc) assured us a victory for the Donald was a natural progression, that it would follow Brexit as sure as night follows day.
If Hillary, liberal New Yorker globalist Hillary, pulls this off, it will upset the narrative just a little, I dare say.
https://countyballotfiles.elections.myflorida.com/FVRSCountyBallotReports/AbsenteeEarlyVotingReports/PublicStats
Repub Demo Othe None Total
3,568 2,275 249 1,296 7,388
I am led to believe that Republicans always have a large by-mail early ballot advantage in the state (in-person early voting advantage for the Dems, which shows later)0 -
The PBTory RapidRebuttalService is entirely voluntary. We live to serve.Theuniondivvie said:
Is the PB Tory 5 minute rebuttal position salaried or gratuitous?Mortimer said:
Thank goodness it won't be interpreted as anything out of the ordinary by any but those outrage bus season ticket holders.Theuniondivvie said:
Thank goodness it didn't take place during a febrile atmosphere of accusations of xenophobia & racism, countered by accusations of manufactured outrage and 'nothing to see here'.FF43 said:
The presentation is dreadful with no explanation or context, but the exercise is probably a reasonable one.Mortimer said:
Before you get on the outrage bus, it looks to be related to this:Theuniondivvie said:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-census-2016-to-2017-guide-for-schools-and-las
If you read the details, it seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that nationality and country of birth are new features on this school census, and the school will automatically put British and Britain for the child in question unless they hear otherwise.0 -
I know, but it looked too much like an easy win at this time of nightJobabob said:
That was a reference to the leadership, during a a thread on the leadership as you well know. I was not referring to all Tories, as the context clearly shows.Mortimer said:
Urm, didn't have to look very hard. From yesterday:Jobabob said:
Find me a post in which I do that.Mortimer said:
Perhaps remember that when you next criticise groups in your traditional generalised way. Tories, for example.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
A clue: you won't.
'There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.'
0 -
If people on both sides had shown more interest in those that were left behind we may indeed still be in the EU. It wasn't/isn't just Remainers that were/are guilty of selfishness. Far from it. Several hard rightists on here have only just discovered the poor.FF43 said:
It's a generalisation, of course, and one that doesn't include me for instance. But ludicrous? If Remainers had generally shown more interest in those that were left behind we would probably still be in the EU. The result was close enough that there were several factors that made the difference between remaining and leaving. That was one of them.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.0 -
Well, lets see how it plays out.Mortimer said:
She might be out of touch with your caricature of the party, or the politically invovlved in general, but not the reality. No-one who has ever knocked on doors canvassing for hours in the pouring rain doesn't care about people in council houses in Middlesborough or Grammars in Essex.foxinsoxuk said:
I am not at all convinced that those Daily Mail readers want to tax home owners in the Shires to build council housing in Middlesborough and Grammar schools in Southend.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
Indeed It may well be that TICIPM is more out of touch with her party than Dave ever was. She possibly may get away with it for a while as there is no alternative.
I suspect that this government will not do much that is radically different to the last one, Brexit excepted.0 -
Mortimer said:
I know, but it looked too much like an easy win at this time of nightJobabob said:
That was a reference to the leadership, during a a thread on the leadership as you well know. I was not referring to all Tories, as the context clearly shows.Mortimer said:
Urm, didn't have to look very hard. From yesterday:Jobabob said:
Find me a post in which I do that.Mortimer said:
Perhaps remember that when you next criticise groups in your traditional generalised way. Tories, for example.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
A clue: you won't.
'There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.' Fair enough 0 -
Yup. I don't know what certain PBTories are moaning about, tbh.SeanT said:I'm finally watching May's speech now.
It is MUCH better than everyone said. It's better than Cameron on an average day. It lacks jokes but, you know, fuck all that. It is serious and passionate and she very clearly means it, and she's obviously been thinking about it for a long time. It is a coherent philosophy, lucidly delivered, it challenges her audience, it is pretty damn impressive - even if I don't agree with lots of it.
It WAS good and WILL play well. Very well done Mrs May.0 -
A majority of Tory voters want to leave the EU and end free movement and want more grammar schools according to polling, so May is clearly more in touch with Tory voters than Dave wasfoxinsoxuk said:
I am not at all convinced that those Daily Mail readers want to tax home owners in the Shires to build council housing in Middlesborough and Grammar schools in Southend.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
Indeed It may well be that TICIPM is more out of touch with her party than Dave ever was. She possibly may get away with it for a while as there is no alternative.0 -
The trend is for them to lose second time too. Nixon is perhaps not the best example either!HYUFD said:
There certainly are on the GOP side, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41, Dole, McCain and Romney all lost their first run for Presidentfoxinsoxuk said:
I don't think so. There are few second chances in American politics. Hillary is an exception.HYUFD said:
Ted Cruz 2020?glw said:
There is nothing Clinton it saying that hasn't been said before by Democrat candidates, going back decades for some issues. If you vote Clinton you aren't voting for change but more of the same. The problems America has will persist, and come 2020 a pissed off electorate might vote for a candidate worse than Trump (although I admit it's hard to name such a person who could get nominated).Ishmael_X said:Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
Obama had the whole Hope and Change thing, even if he didn't deliver a great deal. What does Hilary have? She's not a lunatic; now that's why you have to vote for her, but don't get your hopes up, she will likely be a very disappointing President.
Reagan ran Gerald Ford close 40 years ago though.
This far out I wouldn't tip Cruz.0 -
Ruth Davidson angry at Sturgeon is tremendous viewing.0
-
May was for Remain, though has turned her coat since.HYUFD said:
A majority of Tory voters want to leave the EU and end free movement and want more grammar schools according to polling, so May is clearly more in touch with Tory voters than Dave wasfoxinsoxuk said:
I am not at all convinced that those Daily Mail readers want to tax home owners in the Shires to build council housing in Middlesborough and Grammar schools in Southend.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
Indeed It may well be that TICIPM is more out of touch with her party than Dave ever was. She possibly may get away with it for a while as there is no alternative.0 -
It got one big laugh that was humorous, whilst also being vicious and politically dextrous at passing on her own personal parcel bomb - namely, Labour now being the Nasty Party. How she must have enjoyed the Labour Party handing her that gift.SeanT said:I'm finally watching May's speech now.
It is MUCH better than everyone said. It's better than Cameron on an average day. It lacks jokes but, you know, fuck all that. It is serious and passionate and she very clearly means it, and she's obviously been thinking about it for a long time. It is a coherent philosophy, lucidly delivered, it challenges her audience, it is pretty damn impressive - even if I don't agree with lots of it.0 -
Yeah, but "they" gave an ear and "we" didn't, while "we" could have done something about it and "they" can't.Jobabob said:
If people on both sides had shown more interest in those that were left behind we may indeed still be in the EU. It wasn't/isn't just Remainers that were/are guilty of selfishness. Far from it. Several hard rightists on here have only just discovered the poor.FF43 said:
It's a generalisation, of course, and one that doesn't include me for instance. But ludicrous? If Remainers had generally shown more interest in those that were left behind we would probably still be in the EU. The result was close enough that there were several factors that made the difference between remaining and leaving. That was one of them.Jobabob said:
What a ludicrous generalisation that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind. Some did very much, some less so. They are not a homogeneous whole.FF43 said:
I go along with that. But identifying with people isn't the same as GIVING them the better deal. The fact is, globalisation is the way the world works. You help people by helping them compete better and deal better with the outside world. The sad paradox is that Remainers didn't want to help those left behind while Leavers don't have any answers for them.SeanT said:
I'm globalist and individualist. But I am also, very importantly (for me), a British patriot. And I accept that my kind of Brit - rich, liberal, educated, London property owner - has had a fucking good run for decades.
It's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.0 -
Or following Mutter Merkel - "Mother Theresa"?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why not Theresa May, or Mrs May?TheScreamingEagles said:
To avoid confusion, because May isScrapheap_as_was said:What is it with OGH seeming to use TMay all the time?
What's that all about - I've missed the point of it
TMA would seem as good
i) The surname of our (unelected) Prime Minister
ii) A modal verb
iii) A month
So you can imagine the confusion of the headline 'Theresa May may call a May election'0 -
She swatted Andrew Neill away will ease early on. Not many politicians manage that.SeanT said:Ruth Davidson is a seriously impressive politician, and speaker.
0 -
She is the best debater in Holyrood. Not that's saying much.FrancisUrquhart said:
She swatted Andrew Neill away will ease early on. Not many politicians manage that.SeanT said:Ruth Davidson is a seriously impressive politician, and speaker.
0 -
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/0 -
Latino vote share:
Bush '00: 35%
Bush '04: 40%
McCain: 31%
Romney: 27%
Trump (today): 10.6%
https://t.co/1Dj0vNxTjH0 -
Funny that we had Theresa May's policy man on Newsnight tonight. These people tend to keep quiet and away from the public gaze. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but it makes me think that May doesn't really trust too many of her colleagues.0
-
You can't forget Richard Burgon. I've tried. It's a scar he leaves once watched.SeanT said:The difference in political talent in the Tory party, versus the Labour party, is now embarrassing
Leader: Theresa May versus.... Jeremy Corbyn
But let's carry on
Foreign Secretary - Boris Johnson versus.... Literally don't know the name of the Labour Foreign Secretary
Chancellor - Philip Hammond versus.... John "IRA" McDonnell
Home Secretary: Amber Rudd versus.... oooh, possibly a problem here, wait no - I've got no idea of the name of the Labour Home Secretary. Diane Abbott? Gerry Adams? Anjem Choudary?
Scottish Leader: Ruth Davidson versus... Kezia wotsit. Duggan?
Defense Sec I give up
There's no one left in Labour. It is a party of specifically miniaturised dwarves. Weird creeps of no salience whatsoever. They're dead.0 -
Andy Burnham is Shadow Home Secretary but giving up to become Mayor of Manchester and the Shadow Defence Secretary Clive Lewis had his conference speech rewritten by Seamus Milne for being too pro TridentSeanT said:The difference in political talent in the Tory party, versus the Labour party, is now embarrassing
Leader: Theresa May versus.... Jeremy Corbyn
But let's carry on
Foreign Secretary - Boris Johnson versus.... Literally don't know the name of the Labour Foreign Secretary
Chancellor - Philip Hammond versus.... John "IRA" McDonnell
Home Secretary: Amber Rudd versus.... oooh, possibly a problem here, wait no - I've got no idea of the name of the Labour Home Secretary. Diane Abbott? Gerry Adams? Anjem Choudary?
Scottish Leader: Ruth Davidson versus... Kezia wotsit. Duggan?
Defense Sec I give up
There's no one left in Labour. It is a party of specifically miniaturised dwarves. Weird creeps of no salience whatsoever. They're dead.0 -
If Cruz runs again he will almost certainly get it, after all the biggest GOP field for years this year could not even beat Trump, let alone Clinton. Ryan is happy being Speaker and the base will still demand one of their own in 4 years' time. Bush 41, Dole, McCain and Romney all got the nomination on their second attempt, Reagan on his thirdfoxinsoxuk said:
The trend is for them to lose second time too. Nixon is perhaps not the best example either!HYUFD said:
There certainly are on the GOP side, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41, Dole, McCain and Romney all lost their first run for Presidentfoxinsoxuk said:
I don't think so. There are few second chances in American politics. Hillary is an exception.HYUFD said:
Ted Cruz 2020?glw said:
There is nothing Clinton it saying that hasn't been said before by Democrat candidates, going back decades for some issues. If you vote Clinton you aren't voting for change but more of the same. The problems America has will persist, and come 2020 a pissed off electorate might vote for a candidate worse than Trump (although I admit it's hard to name such a person who could get nominated).Ishmael_X said:Let's give it 4 (or 8) years and see if she still looks like a winner. She strikes me as someone like Gordon Brown who wants the position for the sake of having the position, not to get anything done.
Obama had the whole Hope and Change thing, even if he didn't deliver a great deal. What does Hilary have? She's not a lunatic; now that's why you have to vote for her, but don't get your hopes up, she will likely be a very disappointing President.
Reagan ran Gerald Ford close 40 years ago though.
This far out I wouldn't tip Cruz.0 -
She was never a real enthusiast, unlike Cameronfoxinsoxuk said:
May was for Remain, though has turned her coat since.HYUFD said:
A majority of Tory voters want to leave the EU and end free movement and want more grammar schools according to polling, so May is clearly more in touch with Tory voters than Dave wasfoxinsoxuk said:
I am not at all convinced that those Daily Mail readers want to tax home owners in the Shires to build council housing in Middlesborough and Grammar schools in Southend.SeanT said:
Yes, I am. I'm a patriot, I want my fellow Brits to do well, especially the poor. I bridle at middle class tax hikes under Labour, because I know they will be spunked on stupid shit, and pointless new immigration, and generally wasted.taffys said:t's time for people like me to suffer, relatively, as my poorer compatriots get a better deal.
So you're up for tax hikes for the middle classes then?
We won't really know what May intends until the money is doled out.
I trust the Tories to spend it better.
And yes, London property owners might need to dig a bit deeper for working class kids in Middlesborough. That's what being a Briton means.
Indeed It may well be that TICIPM is more out of touch with her party than Dave ever was. She possibly may get away with it for a while as there is no alternative.0 -
Romney won the first debate (which is the point at which you are referring to in the polls) but lost the second and third. He also went into the debates further behind than Trump was619 said:
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/0 -
Looks like you have answered your own question but Corbyn also has the problem most of his MPs refuse to even serve under himSeanT said:
Who is the Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary? Without googling, I honestly don't know. And I'm a political obsessive. They're a disaster.HYUFD said:
Andy Burnham is Shadow Home Secretary but giving up to become Mayor of Manchester and the Shadow Defence Secretary Clive Lewis had his conference speech rewritten by Seamus Milne for being too pro TridentSeanT said:The difference in political talent in the Tory party, versus the Labour party, is now embarrassing
Leader: Theresa May versus.... Jeremy Corbyn
But let's carry on
Foreign Secretary - Boris Johnson versus.... Literally don't know the name of the Labour Foreign Secretary
Chancellor - Philip Hammond versus.... John "IRA" McDonnell
Home Secretary: Amber Rudd versus.... oooh, possibly a problem here, wait no - I've got no idea of the name of the Labour Home Secretary. Diane Abbott? Gerry Adams? Anjem Choudary?
Scottish Leader: Ruth Davidson versus... Kezia wotsit. Duggan?
Defense Sec I give up
There's no one left in Labour. It is a party of specifically miniaturised dwarves. Weird creeps of no salience whatsoever. They're dead.0 -
The position is vacant:SeanT said:
Who is the Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary? Without googling, I honestly don't know. And I'm a political obsessive. They're a disaster.HYUFD said:
Andy Burnham is Shadow Home Secretary but giving up to become Mayor of Manchester and the Shadow Defence Secretary Clive Lewis had his conference speech rewritten by Seamus Milne for being too pro TridentSeanT said:The difference in political talent in the Tory party, versus the Labour party, is now embarrassing
Leader: Theresa May versus.... Jeremy Corbyn
But let's carry on
Foreign Secretary - Boris Johnson versus.... Literally don't know the name of the Labour Foreign Secretary
Chancellor - Philip Hammond versus.... John "IRA" McDonnell
Home Secretary: Amber Rudd versus.... oooh, possibly a problem here, wait no - I've got no idea of the name of the Labour Home Secretary. Diane Abbott? Gerry Adams? Anjem Choudary?
Scottish Leader: Ruth Davidson versus... Kezia wotsit. Duggan?
Defense Sec I give up
There's no one left in Labour. It is a party of specifically miniaturised dwarves. Weird creeps of no salience whatsoever. They're dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Home_Secretary 0 -
You should have known that...it is only a few weeks since she claimed it was sexist to ask her the name of various counter parts around the world.SeanT said:Apparently Emily Thornberry is Labour's Shadow Foreign Sec. I had to go to Wikipedia to find out. And I spend my life on here.
Either I have Alzheimers, fairly early onset, or this party is now so anonymous and shit, and staffed by talentless dorks, they are heading towards a grisly electoral death.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/emily-thornberry-sexism-dermot-murnaghan-sky-news0 -
She's the obvious choice for Jezza in the FCO - she hate's our flag ...SeanT said:Apparently Emily Thornberry is Labour's Shadow Foreign Sec. I had to go to Wikipedia to find out. And I spend my life on here.
Either I have Alzheimers, fairly early onset, or this party is now so anonymous and shit, and staffed by talentless dorks, they are heading towards a grisly electoral death.0 -
Unless "Vacant" is taking one for the team and is single-handedly carrying all those briefs....SeanT said:
lol.RobD said:
The position is vacant:SeanT said:
Who is the Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary? Without googling, I honestly don't know. And I'm a political obsessive. They're a disaster.HYUFD said:
Andy Burnham is Shadow Home Secretary but giving up to become Mayor of Manchester and the Shadow Defence Secretary Clive Lewis had his conference speech rewritten by Seamus Milne for being too pro TridentSeanT said:The difference in political talent in the Tory party, versus the Labour party, is now embarrassing
Leader: Theresa May versus.... Jeremy Corbyn
But let's carry on
Foreign Secretary - Boris Johnson versus.... Literally don't know the name of the Labour Foreign Secretary
Chancellor - Philip Hammond versus.... John "IRA" McDonnell
Home Secretary: Amber Rudd versus.... oooh, possibly a problem here, wait no - I've got no idea of the name of the Labour Home Secretary. Diane Abbott? Gerry Adams? Anjem Choudary?
Scottish Leader: Ruth Davidson versus... Kezia wotsit. Duggan?
Defense Sec I give up
There's no one left in Labour. It is a party of specifically miniaturised dwarves. Weird creeps of no salience whatsoever. They're dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Home_Secretary
"Sorry, we haven't got one."
"What, you haven't got a Shadow Home Secretary??"
"No. But we have a position on Jews. Wait, no we don't."0 -
what do you think i mean by doing worse??? he lost the debate, thats his own damn fault. he is doing worse than romney at the moment.HYUFD said:
Romney won the first debate (which is the point at which you are referring to in the polls) but lost the second and third. He also went into the debates further behind than Trump was619 said:
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/0 -
The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.0
-
May is to snap elections what Gove was to leadership electionsAndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
0 -
Ah so Labour win that particular head-to-head then at leastRobD said:
The position is vacant:SeanT said:
Who is the Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary? Without googling, I honestly don't know. And I'm a political obsessive. They're a disaster.HYUFD said:
Andy Burnham is Shadow Home Secretary but giving up to become Mayor of Manchester and the Shadow Defence Secretary Clive Lewis had his conference speech rewritten by Seamus Milne for being too pro TridentSeanT said:The difference in political talent in the Tory party, versus the Labour party, is now embarrassing
Leader: Theresa May versus.... Jeremy Corbyn
But let's carry on
Foreign Secretary - Boris Johnson versus.... Literally don't know the name of the Labour Foreign Secretary
Chancellor - Philip Hammond versus.... John "IRA" McDonnell
Home Secretary: Amber Rudd versus.... oooh, possibly a problem here, wait no - I've got no idea of the name of the Labour Home Secretary. Diane Abbott? Gerry Adams? Anjem Choudary?
Scottish Leader: Ruth Davidson versus... Kezia wotsit. Duggan?
Defense Sec I give up
There's no one left in Labour. It is a party of specifically miniaturised dwarves. Weird creeps of no salience whatsoever. They're dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Home_Secretary0 -
The BBC are desperate for another Blairite Labour government and they know that getting rid of Corbyn and McDonnell as soon as possible is the only way to get that dream back on track. Well, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not much.SeanT said:The BBC is just buying the entire Theresa May narrative.
0 -
the Albanian modelBarnesian said:
Or following Mutter Merkel - "Mother Theresa"?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why not Theresa May, or Mrs May?TheScreamingEagles said:
To avoid confusion, because May isScrapheap_as_was said:What is it with OGH seeming to use TMay all the time?
What's that all about - I've missed the point of it
TMA would seem as good
i) The surname of our (unelected) Prime Minister
ii) A modal verb
iii) A month
So you can imagine the confusion of the headline 'Theresa May may call a May election'0 -
Given she needs Labour votes or to change the law beforehand either way there would be plenty of forewarning for an early election.Jonathan said:
May is to snap elections what Gove was to leadership electionsAndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
I believe her when she says no early election, I'm not sure why nobody else does.0 -
Depends on what poll you look at, Trump is ahead with Rasmussen and the LA Times, Pence won the debate last night, the Wikileaks on Benghazi etc start in the next few days and the second debate is Sunday.619 said:
what do you think i mean by doing worse??? he lost the debate, thats his own damn fault. he is doing worse than romney at the moment.HYUFD said:
Romney won the first debate (which is the point at which you are referring to in the polls) but lost the second and third. He also went into the debates further behind than Trump was619 said:
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/0 -
One hopes Trump is actually studying this timeHYUFD said:
Depends on what poll you look at, Trump is ahead with Rasmussen and the LA Times, Pence won the debate last night, the Wikileaks on Benghazi etc start in the next few days and the second debate is Sunday.619 said:
what do you think i mean by doing worse??? he lost the debate, thats his own damn fault. he is doing worse than romney at the moment.HYUFD said:
Romney won the first debate (which is the point at which you are referring to in the polls) but lost the second and third. He also went into the debates further behind than Trump was619 said:
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/
0 -
She is a politician.dodrade said:
Given she needs Labour votes or to change the law beforehand either way there would be plenty of forewarning for an early election.Jonathan said:
May is to snap elections what Gove was to leadership electionsAndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
I believe her when she says no early election, I'm not sure why nobody else does.
Not only that, but one who played a very canny Brexit campaign by going AWOL.
May is no saint.
0 -
Play the long game, Labour eats itself alive, boundary changes and of course Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.dodrade said:
Given she needs Labour votes or to change the law beforehand either way there would be plenty of forewarning for an early election.Jonathan said:
May is to snap elections what Gove was to leadership electionsAndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
I believe her when she says no early election, I'm not sure why nobody else does.0 -
The curious thing is that Labour didn't eat itself alive. Against all odds it had the best conference of the three.Moses_ said:
Play the long game, Labour eats itself alive, boundary changes and of course Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.dodrade said:
Given she needs Labour votes or to change the law beforehand either way there would be plenty of forewarning for an early election.Jonathan said:
May is to snap elections what Gove was to leadership electionsAndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
I believe her when she says no early election, I'm not sure why nobody else does.
But perhaps you're right. Maybe Labour should leave the Tories alone right now.0 -
Depending on what comes out of Wikileaks he may not need to, it will all be on a plate for him. GoodnightRobD said:
One hopes Trump is actually studying this timeHYUFD said:
Depends on what poll you look at, Trump is ahead with Rasmussen and the LA Times, Pence won the debate last night, the Wikileaks on Benghazi etc start in the next few days and the second debate is Sunday.619 said:
what do you think i mean by doing worse??? he lost the debate, thats his own damn fault. he is doing worse than romney at the moment.HYUFD said:
Romney won the first debate (which is the point at which you are referring to in the polls) but lost the second and third. He also went into the debates further behind than Trump was619 said:
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/0 -
Yes, but on the other hand May is no Osborne and "getting one over on Labour" is much lower down her list of priorities than "doing the right thing" - which as she has repeatedly stated is making Brexit work. May is very WYSIWYG -listen to what she says - it's what she believes and what she'll do.....The GE is in May 2020 - unless she gets into a huge scrap with the Lords and needs to take them down...AndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
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wikileaks is wishful thinking isn't it? isn't your faith damaged by this week's fiasco?HYUFD said:
Depending on what comes out of Wikileaks he may not need to, it will all be on a plate for him. GoodnightRobD said:
One hopes Trump is actually studying this timeHYUFD said:
Depends on what poll you look at, Trump is ahead with Rasmussen and the LA Times, Pence won the debate last night, the Wikileaks on Benghazi etc start in the next few days and the second debate is Sunday.619 said:
what do you think i mean by doing worse??? he lost the debate, thats his own damn fault. he is doing worse than romney at the moment.HYUFD said:
Romney won the first debate (which is the point at which you are referring to in the polls) but lost the second and third. He also went into the debates further behind than Trump was619 said:
im talking about in pre-election polls. romney was leading by 2 at this stage 4 years agoHYUFD said:
No he is not, RCP has Hillary leading Trump by 3.8% today, Romney lost by 3.9% to Obama619 said:
also, trump ia doing a lot worse than romney, by around 5 points nationally619 said:
i thought you said it would be today that the leak would happen? in fact, roger stone guaranteed it!RobD said:
It's so hyped it's a guaranteed damp squib.HYUFD said:
Wikileaks never actually said the leaks would be today, the press conference was just a publicity statement, Assange's spokeswoman confirmed today the first release would be in the next few days with more coming a few days afterAlistair said:
I think you might have missed Alex Jones's meltdown over Wikileaks.HYUFD said:
Trump is doing as well as Romney did in 2012 at the moment, there is no reason at all for him to drop out, especially as the GOP side are not exactly filled with brilliant alternative candidates either and Trump-Pence is now already on the ballot in many states. The Benghazi Wikileaks is also due to be released in the next few days, just before Sunday's debateSpeedy said:If Trump doesn't win the debate on Sunday he should call it quits and resign to let someone else have a try.
I always said that the White House is a Bridge Too Far for Trump :
(great overture, shame that Trump doesn't use it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gls47FozfQ
http://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-revelations-about-the-u-s-election-to-be-released-in-a-few-days/0 -
Apart from during referendum campaigns, likeCarlottaVance said:
May is very WYSIWYG -listen to what she says - it's what she believes0 -
She didn't say anything...dugarbandier said:
Apart from during referendum campaigns, likeCarlottaVance said:
May is very WYSIWYG -listen to what she says - it's what she believes 0 -
reflecting her beliefs?RobD said:
She didn't say anything...dugarbandier said:
Apart from during referendum campaigns, likeCarlottaVance said:
May is very WYSIWYG -listen to what she says - it's what she believes0 -
An interesting perspective- I'm glad that you believe that.....it may not be a view universally held....Jonathan said:
Against all odds it had the best conference of the threeMoses_ said:
Play the long game, Labour eats itself alive, boundary changes and of course Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.dodrade said:
Given she needs Labour votes or to change the law beforehand either way there would be plenty of forewarning for an early election.Jonathan said:
May is to snap elections what Gove was to leadership electionsAndyJS said:The fact that Theresa May keeps ruling out a snap election doesn't, with respect, mean anything much because the whole point of a snap election is to catch the opposition unawares and, by definition, she wouldn't want to give the impression that she might call one in advance.
I believe her when she says no early election, I'm not sure why nobody else does.0 -
We'll have to wait for her memoirs, but I suspect she viewed it as Cameron's mess he and his inner circle of chums could sort out. After years of being left out, time for her to return the compliment.dugarbandier said:
Apart from during referendum campaigns, likeCarlottaVance said:
May is very WYSIWYG -listen to what she says - it's what she believes0
