politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » GOP VP Nominee Pence comes out best in the VP debate polls
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » GOP VP Nominee Pence comes out best in the VP debate polls
Given how old both Trump and Clinton are then actuarially then the two men who took part in the overnight VP debate have probably got a reasonable chance of becoming President. So although the event will only have attracted a fraction of what Clinton-Trump secured last it is important. It will also get far less post debate coverage.
Comments
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First again!0
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Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.0 -
And technically, Farage might still be leader...rottenborough said:Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.0 -
Fourth, like LDs0
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Another non-resignation.Nigelb said:
And technically, Farage might still be leader...rottenborough said:Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.0 -
FPT ground-game news: The Trump people in my Twitter stream think the RNC is deliberately sabotaging Trump.
I guess the reality is more likely some kind of wacky mix-up where the Trump campaign thought the RNC were taking care of GOTV and the RNC thought the Trump campaign was doing it.0 -
He remains the only Kipper anyone's ever heard of. And who, FFS, wants to hear of, let alone from, two Kippers?Nigelb said:
And technically, Farage might still be leader...rottenborough said:Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.
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Looks like RNC are concentrating on saving down stream candidates. Really I think it's over for Trump unless a large black swan appears on the scene.edmundintokyo said:FPT ground-game news: The Trump people in my Twitter stream think the RNC is deliberately sabotaging Trump.
I guess the reality is more likely some kind of wacky mix-up where the Trump campaign thought the RNC were taking care of GOTV and the RNC thought the Trump campaign was doing it.0 -
I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.0
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I caught a few snippets on Radio 4 earlier. Both candidates sounded better than the POTUS candidates, but despite being a heartbeat away from the job it is not going to have much influence.
Both here and the USA it looks as if politics is to be endured rather than enjoyed for the next four years.0 -
Yup, that's what people are claiming. There was always speculation that this would happen.rottenborough said:
Looks like RNC are concentrating on saving down stream candidates. Really I think it's over for Trump unless a large black swan appears on the scene.edmundintokyo said:FPT ground-game news: The Trump people in my Twitter stream think the RNC is deliberately sabotaging Trump.
I guess the reality is more likely some kind of wacky mix-up where the Trump campaign thought the RNC were taking care of GOTV and the RNC thought the Trump campaign was doing it.
The twist is that Trump doesn't seem to have his own organization, and is dependent on the RNC...
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/7835434985449103370 -
@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP0
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If the bookies paid out on Diane James they'll be feeling sore this morning (I didn't play that market).0
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Where will Mark Carney and Zlatan Ibrahimovic wear theirs? Will Boris need one?AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/7831950095500247040 -
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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Presumably he would have been deported once there was a British-born doctor available to take his place.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
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We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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You also need a good transport infrastructure, affordable childcare and enough housing, among other things. In short, we are gong to need to spend a lot more - which means more borrowing and/or higher taxes.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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Indeed.SouthamObserver said:
Presumably he would have been deported once there was a British-born doctor available to take his place.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
Coupled with Amber Rudd's plans, for the first time in my 20 years as a Tory, I'm ashamed to be a Tory0 -
Go and find a permanent IT person and tell them that. The rate for a senior developer as £45k in 2006 and is at best the same now. And its not Europe that has introduced the competition but consultancies bringing people in on inter company transfers as the guide for a skill being required is basically anything over £40kAlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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From reports I read Trump has delegated all GOTV operations to state operations and the state operations are, naturally, experienced in state races not Presidential operations.edmundintokyo said:FPT ground-game news: The Trump people in my Twitter stream think the RNC is deliberately sabotaging Trump.
I guess the reality is more likely some kind of wacky mix-up where the Trump campaign thought the RNC were taking care of GOTV and the RNC thought the Trump campaign was doing it.0 -
Just as well I'm not in Birmingham today, I would have been escorted out of the ICC for repeatedly heckling Mrs May0
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It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Woolfe this time?0 -
He can check out any time he wants, but he can never leave.rottenborough said:
Another non-resignation.Nigelb said:
And technically, Farage might still be leader...rottenborough said:Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.0 -
rottenborough said:
Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.0 -
Damn it, that was going to be my gag. I was going to phrase itbaround unnecessary red tape for the business to compile the reports so individuals should just wear and identifying mark.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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Record employment levels: partly because we are in the EU single market. Oh...AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
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Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/7831950095500247040 -
We still have 1.8m unemployed and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit, plus millions receiving wage subsidies because of low pay. The employment statistics only tell one part of the story.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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Not sure there are that many pensioners dependent on state education. They are dependent on state munificence in other ways, though. Let's see how much they are asked to sacrifice to ensure the infrastructure we need to get Brits working. To get locals into the fields, for example, rural public transport will need a significant upgrade after the cuts imposed over the last six years that were so roundly welcomed on here.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
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The rhetoric is not going to help our recruitment gap for the next decade, and is going to need changes in the law so that foreign docs cannot apply for permanent residence after 4 years.MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
I suspect that she meant that in 2025 overseas recruitment will not be needed, rather than long serving doctors being deported to the east for resettlement.
I do think May is a nasty piece of work, with very little empathy with others or compassion in her heart. I think she is a Pharisee.0 -
6m on benefits - who should be in work? Where does this number come from?MaxPB said:
We still have 1.8m unemployed and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit, plus millions receiving wage subsidies because of low pay. The employment statistics only tell one part of the story.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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If he was here legally after five years he could apply for Indefinite Leave To Remain.....so chances are all foreign doctors here currently will be able to stay - only those arriving in the early to mid 2020s will need to check their future options....SouthamObserver said:
Presumably he would have been deported once there was a British-born doctor available to take his place.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/7831950095500247040 -
"...and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit"MaxPB said:
We still have 1.8m unemployed and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit, plus millions receiving wage subsidies because of low pay. The employment statistics only tell one part of the story.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
Does that include people who are (genuinely) unfit for work?0 -
No, the reality probably is that the RNC is sabotaging Trump. Many senior politicians have failed to endorse Trump and prominent donors have closed their cheque books to Trump while continuing to fund downstream candidates -- the Koch brothers have been open about this, for instance.edmundintokyo said:FPT ground-game news: The Trump people in my Twitter stream think the RNC is deliberately sabotaging Trump.
I guess the reality is more likely some kind of wacky mix-up where the Trump campaign thought the RNC were taking care of GOTV and the RNC thought the Trump campaign was doing it.0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Just as well I'm not in Birmingham today, I would have been escorted out of the ICC for repeatedly heckling Mrs May
You think you'd have made it as far as the exit.....?
Mrs May is proving very popular with the grass roots....0 -
Utter farce.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Sadly there is definitely pandering going on, but I cannot figure out at this point if may is still interested in other centre ground issues (immigration concern is not shared by me, but is surely a centre ground issue for a great many of the public so pandering on that is not really right wing) or if that's just talk to distract from a hard pitch to the right. Certainly the Tory equivalent of Corbynistas seem very happy at the moment, and keen to repudiate all aspects of camerons leadership, so I have to assume they are moving sharply to the right. Always a risk of course, particular with labour showing how popular with the grassroots it is.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.0 -
The ONS, people claiming main out of work benefits plus the inactive who have fallen out of the jobs market. I also didn't mention underemployment.rottenborough said:
6m on benefits - who should be in work? Where does this number come from?MaxPB said:
We still have 1.8m unemployed and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit, plus millions receiving wage subsidies because of low pay. The employment statistics only tell one part of the story.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
I'm not saying that the jobs market hasn't performed well, it has. I'm just saying that anyone who wants to say that there are no issues is kidding themselves, the taxpayer wouldn't need to be giving out £30bn worth of in-work benefits and wage subsidies if that were the case.0 -
That sounds about right - you get tax credits if you're on a low income, disability benefits if you're disabled etc etc.rottenborough said:
6m on benefits - who should be in work? Where does this number come from?MaxPB said:
We still have 1.8m unemployed and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit, plus millions receiving wage subsidies because of low pay. The employment statistics only tell one part of the story.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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Can anyone confirm if Theresa May was a member of The Monday Club?MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
It would explain a great many things.0 -
So was IDS.CarlottaVance said:TheScreamingEagles said:Just as well I'm not in Birmingham today, I would have been escorted out of the ICC for repeatedly heckling Mrs May
You think you'd have made it as far as the exit.....?
Mrs May is proving very popular with the grass roots....0 -
She signed but wrote 'under duress' in Latin underneath it, which the EC took as voiding the document. Apparently.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Woolfe this time?0 -
Yes, there is some kind of pandering to UKIP voters in the language which has left me unsettled. As I said, I should have realised when Plato was waxing lyrical about Rudd's speech that it would have a few nasty surprises in it.foxinsoxuk said:
The rhetoric is not going to help our recruitment gap for the next decade, and is going to need changes in the law so that foreign docs cannot apply for permanent residence after 4 years.MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
I suspect that she meant that in 2025 overseas recruitment will not be needed, rather than long serving doctors being deported to the east for resettlement.
I do think May is a nasty piece of work, with very little empathy with others or compassion in her heart. I think she is a Pharisee.
I guess nothing has really changed in practice, but there are better ways to discourage migration than tell them they are all going to get deported and any firm which does hire them will be subject to fire bombs.0 -
But also because we have a lot of people in part time work thanks to tax credits. As tax credits are removed you may find we have 2.5 workers doing a single persons jobrottenborough said:
Record employment levels: partly because we are in the EU single market. Oh...AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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There are mixed messages, but if Rudd's speech is as reported, then that seems a major, unwelcome, swing to the right.kle4 said:
Utter farce.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Sadly there is definitely pandering going on, but I cannot figure out at this point if may is still interested in other centre ground issues (immigration concern is not shared by me, but is surely a centre ground issue for a great many of the public so pandering on that is not really right wing) or if that's just talk to distract from a hard pitch to the right. Certainly the Tory equivalent of Corbynistas seem very happy at the moment, and keen to repudiate all aspects of camerons leadership, so I have to assume they are moving sharply to the right.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
No wonder UKIPpers and TINOs are turning back to the Conservatives. Sadly, if this is right it means there'll be no home for me in the party.0 -
The pensioners are likely to have grandchildren in state education though, so have an interest that way. May is the first Tory for years to realise that her voters are dependent on state provided services. She realises that reforming the welfare state does not mean destroying it!SouthamObserver said:
Not sure there are that many pensioners dependent on state education. They are dependent on state munificence in other ways, though. Let's see how much they are asked to sacrifice to ensure the infrastructure we need to get Brits working. To get locals into the fields, for example, rural public transport will need a significant upgrade after the cuts imposed over the last six years that were so roundly welcomed on here.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
I am heartened for example of her plan to tie graduates in 2023 into years of state employment in the NHS. The clear implication is that the state will be the deliverer of medical care in a decades time.0 -
Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.0 -
Seriously? That has to be a joke, right? What sort of senior politician who have so little personal agency they were literally not figuratively forced into standing when they didn't want to?IanB2 said:
She signed but wrote 'under duress' in Latin underneath it, which the EC took as voiding the document. Apparently.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Woolfe this time?0 -
Lazy smear.TheScreamingEagles said:
Can anyone confirm if Theresa May was a member of The Monday Club?MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
It would explain a great many things.
Seems most unlikely - at University her friends were in the TRG (eg Damien Green) - not the Monday Club.0 -
Amber Rudd's proposals are to be welcomed. We've voted for a huge reduction in immigration and via a means ( Brexit ) that subverts various other national priorities to that aim. So we need practical policies to substantially cut the number of foreigners coming here. Her proposals are a good start. It's also helpful they aren't targeted specifically at EU nationals is also good. It slays another Leave lie that they'd be easier non EU immigration after they won Brexit on an anti immigrant platform. The fact Rudd's proposals are anti business, will leave us all slightly poorer and involve a more intrusive state is neither here nor there. This is what we voted for. Let's get the mechanics of Brexit out there asap so scrutiny and debate can begin.0
-
Good post. I agree.MaxPB said:
Yes, there is some kind of pandering to UKIP voters in the language which has left me unsettled. As I said, I should have realised when Plato was waxing lyrical about Rudd's speech that it would have a few nasty surprises in it.foxinsoxuk said:
The rhetoric is not going to help our recruitment gap for the next decade, and is going to need changes in the law so that foreign docs cannot apply for permanent residence after 4 years.MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
I suspect that she meant that in 2025 overseas recruitment will not be needed, rather than long serving doctors being deported to the east for resettlement.
I do think May is a nasty piece of work, with very little empathy with others or compassion in her heart. I think she is a Pharisee.
I guess nothing has really changed in practice, but there are better ways to discourage migration than tell them they are all going to get deported and any firm which does hire them will be subject to fire bombs.
0 -
May's majority strengthened.
http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/tories-increase-majority-dup-deal/336280 -
Morning all.
UKIP leadership challenge round two, or is it three? Wolfe must be in with a good chance this time?0 -
-
From Red Box
Diane James has quit as Ukip leader after just 18 days. Nigel Farage has been on pub crawls which have lasted longer.0 -
@paulwaugh: Rudd on naming firms which don't even consider hiring Brits rather than foreigners: 'they're the ones we want to flush out here' #r4today
The rhetoric really is bad0 -
Yes, his 6m figure includes people who are found too ill to work by the stringent test carried out by a private sector contractor.JosiasJessop said:
"...and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit"MaxPB said:
We still have 1.8m unemployed and around 6m people total who should be in work that are on some form of benefit, plus millions receiving wage subsidies because of low pay. The employment statistics only tell one part of the story.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
Does that include people who are (genuinely) unfit for work?0 -
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/full-speed-ahead-for-french-rail-rescue-th2t0p0dc
This is one of the reasons we've left. If the EU was really interested in blocking illegal state aid then they should step in now and block this contract.0 -
Last night the morons were saying it was just The I newspaper hyperbole
Amber Rudd says already having 'early conversations' with sectors such as adult social care that have v.high proportion of foreign workers0 -
She should apply for a place at the University of Leicester Medical School. She would get a very fair interview here. I know - I am one of the interviewers! We have done a lot of work on our interview process based upon evidence from performance of previous undergraduates. We found that state educated students outperformed privately educated students on many in course assessments and modified the selection process to favour these. We want the best, but these are not always the best rehearsed and coached at interview.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.
0 -
You don't have to be particuarly experienced. Trump is a drag on GOP candidates simple as that. In Nevada one poll showed Clinton up 6 but the GOP senate candidate up 3. that means Trump there is a drag of 9%!Alistair said:
From reports I read Trump has delegated all GOTV operations to state operations and the state operations are, naturally, experienced in state races not Presidential operations.edmundintokyo said:FPT ground-game news: The Trump people in my Twitter stream think the RNC is deliberately sabotaging Trump.
I guess the reality is more likely some kind of wacky mix-up where the Trump campaign thought the RNC were taking care of GOTV and the RNC thought the Trump campaign was doing it.0 -
Looks like a heated VP debate, which Pence probably got the better of which should help steady the Trump ship0
-
What she should have picked up from there was that she was different not that she didn't have a chance.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.
Medicine (but to be frank any degree / job) requires 2 things - good results and a decent CV showing how rounded the person is. A good application form mentioning other things that she has done (voluntary work, experience at Doctor's hospitals).... are what she needs.... Speak to the HR department at your local hospital and see what if they can point you at someone who can help her....
There are actually other ways into Medicine outside of immediate application - some courses (Medical Research say) provide routes in later and there are other areas of medicine radiography say which provide routes into medicine that are better rewarded than nursing..0 -
0
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I'm afraid I think that view is simply wrong. May's cabinet is far less of a chumocracy, and her reach far more inclusive than Dave's was. It just doesn't pander to the sort of extreme neo-liberalism (like open borders and unlimited immigration) that some on here seem to want.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.0 -
Most of them saying to her - fuck off.TheScreamingEagles said:Last night the morons were saying it was just The I newspaper hyperbole
Amber Rudd says already having 'early conversations' with sectors such as adult social care that have v.high proportion of foreign workers0 -
When I was at college, a friend of mine applied for medicine (at Brighton, Leicester, Sheffield and Nottingham - I think). He got four As in his AS Levels in maths, chemistry, biology and physics. He didn't even get an interview. We think it was his personal statement that let him down. Yeah, cos that's what really matters when it comes to medicine.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.
I'm not sure I like the idea of telling medical students that they have to stay in the NHS or else face a hefty bill, but given that it is oversubscribed, those that get in should realize how lucky they have been to have been chosen.0 -
They should just make him life president of the party - that way, there won't be any confusion who is now in charge should the day to day leader arrangements become confused, as now.dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/783568304396959744
More retirements than a boxer.
0 -
CarlottaVance said:
Lazy smear.TheScreamingEagles said:
Can anyone confirm if Theresa May was a member of The Monday Club?MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
It would explain a great many things.
Seems most unlikely - at University her friends were in the TRG (eg Damien Green) - not the Monday Club.
More likely the terminally dull Bow Group, perhaps ?CarlottaVance said:
Lazy smear.TheScreamingEagles said:
Can anyone confirm if Theresa May was a member of The Monday Club?MaxPB said:
Well not at all since he would have been a citizen by then, can't deport citizens. I still find the rhetoric a bit off.TheScreamingEagles said:So how would this have applied to my grandfather?
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/783195009550024704
It would explain a great many things.
Seems most unlikely - at University her friends were in the TRG (eg Damien Green) - not the Monday Club.
This story about Grieve chucking Damian Green off Magdalen bridge gives a flavour of the times:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9796879/Class-rivalry-among-Tories-behind-1977-attack-on-Damian-Green-at-Oxford.html0 -
Pandering she was happy to support.Mortimer said:
I'm afraid I think that view is simply wrong. May's cabinet is far less of a chumocracy, and her reach far more inclusive than Dave's was. It just doesn't pander to the sort of extreme neo-liberalism (like open borders and unlimited immigration) that some on here seem to want.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.0 -
May's statements on immigration are in line with what the average voter thinks and more liberal than what the white working class think which shows how out of touch the metropolitan liberal elite were on the issuekle4 said:
Utter farce.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Sadly there is definitely pandering going on, but I cannot figure out at this point if may is still interested in other centre ground issues (immigration concern is not shared by me, but is surely a centre ground issue for a great many of the public so pandering on that is not really right wing) or if that's just talk to distract from a hard pitch to the right. Certainly the Tory equivalent of Corbynistas seem very happy at the moment, and keen to repudiate all aspects of camerons leadership, so I have to assume they are moving sharply to the right. Always a risk of course, particular with labour showing how popular with the grassroots it is.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.0 -
Turmoil in the party actually running Britain is causing the pound to plummet.rottenborough said:Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.0 -
Lol - I think you must like the abuse you get on hereAlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
0 -
She must have rumbled that secret plan to privatise the NHS, then.foxinsoxuk said:
The pensioners are likely to have grandchildren in state education though, so have an interest that way. May is the first Tory for years to realise that her voters are dependent on state provided services. She realises that reforming the welfare state does not mean destroying it!SouthamObserver said:
Not sure there are that many pensioners dependent on state education. They are dependent on state munificence in other ways, though. Let's see how much they are asked to sacrifice to ensure the infrastructure we need to get Brits working. To get locals into the fields, for example, rural public transport will need a significant upgrade after the cuts imposed over the last six years that were so roundly welcomed on here.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
I am heartened for example of her plan to tie graduates in 2023 into years of state employment in the NHS. The clear implication is that the state will be the deliverer of medical care in a decades time.
They must keep it more secret next time.
Seriously, i mean, spouting this is the sort of balls that prevents many non Tories on here (and in the Grauniad, Indy etc) from seeing the real issues facing them. Rubbish NHS privatisation theories.0 -
Did you notice I said the views on immigration concern are indeed centrist? I do not share those concerns but know most people do, to some extent. My uncertainty was how centrist she will be generally. Given the ones on the right seem happiest, inpresume her talk of centrism is a distraction.HYUFD said:
May's statements on immigration are in line with what the average voter thinks and more liberal than what the white working class think which shows how out of touch the metropolitan liberal elite were on the issuekle4 said:
Utter farce.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Sadly there is definitely pandering going on, but I cannot figure out at this point if may is still interested in other centre ground issues (immigration concern is not shared by me, but is surely a centre ground issue for a great many of the public so pandering on that is not really right wing) or if that's just talk to distract from a hard pitch to the right. Certainly the Tory equivalent of Corbynistas seem very happy at the moment, and keen to repudiate all aspects of camerons leadership, so I have to assume they are moving sharply to the right. Always a risk of course, particular with labour showing how popular with the grassroots it is.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preferencements before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.0 -
And why is that the case? Because we have decided as a nation that we can't afford it, have cut the funding to the bone and then let the private sector try and profit from it.TheScreamingEagles said:Last night the morons were saying it was just The I newspaper hyperbole
Amber Rudd says already having 'early conversations' with sectors such as adult social care that have v.high proportion of foreign workers
A high proportion of foreign workers because they're willing/able to exist on the low wages and long hours that goes with the job. If it was better respected and better paid British people might be interested.0 -
I don't want open borders and unlimited immigration, yet I'm completely against any kind of policy to "name and shame" businesses which hire foreign workers. There are better ways to decrease migration. Either something is legal or it isn't, if the government isn't going to introduce restrictions on migration to reduce the numbers then it shouldn't shame companies who take advantage of cheap labour.Mortimer said:
I'm afraid I think that view is simply wrong. May's cabinet is far less of a chumocracy, and her reach far more inclusive than Dave's was. It just doesn't pander to the sort of extreme neo-liberalism (like open borders and unlimited immigration) that some on here seem to want.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
Really, this is all reactive, the government needs to look at why British workers are so often considered uncompetitive with foreign workers or (in the case of the medical sector) why we have such systemic shortages of qualified workers.0 -
Mr Deacon is finding the Tory conference dull
On and on they drone. Time drips by. I can feel my soul seeping out of me, gram by gram. My body sagging. My bones turning to rubber. I daydream about walking out, but I’m not sure I’d have the strength.
Still, at least I’m getting paid to sit here. Think of the party members. They’ve paid up to £520 each for this. They don’t get to vote on policy, or to express their opinions. They’re paying through the nose for the privilege of clapping. From time to time they get to their feet for a standing ovation. I don’t think they’re actually impressed. They’ve just got pins and needles.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/ive-spent-three-days-at-tory-conference-now-i-know-what-death-fe/0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
So was IDS.CarlottaVance said:TheScreamingEagles said:Just as well I'm not in Birmingham today, I would have been escorted out of the ICC for repeatedly heckling Mrs May
You think you'd have made it as far as the exit.....?
Mrs May is proving very popular with the grass roots....
IDS never had a ten point poll lead as May doesTheScreamingEagles said:
So was IDS.CarlottaVance said:TheScreamingEagles said:Just as well I'm not in Birmingham today, I would have been escorted out of the ICC for repeatedly heckling Mrs May
You think you'd have made it as far as the exit.....?
Mrs May is proving very popular with the grass roots....0 -
The best way for companies to counter this disgusting Britain First stuff would be to vaunt their foreign hires with pride. "A global company with a global outlook". Rudd should hang her head in shame.TheScreamingEagles said:Last night the morons were saying it was just The I newspaper hyperbole
Amber Rudd says already having 'early conversations' with sectors such as adult social care that have v.high proportion of foreign workers
@MaxPB Yes - never a good sign when the frothing PB morning shift backs something0 -
Given that how you deal with people is essential to medicine and the sheer number of people who apply to do medicine the personal statement would be the first thing they look at to weed people out (everyone I know who has applied in recent years has always done weeks of voluntary work in OAP homes).tlg86 said:
When I was at college, a friend of mine applied for medicine (at Brighton, Leicester, Sheffield and Nottingham - I think). He got four As in his AS Levels in maths, chemistry, biology and physics. He didn't even get an interview. We think it was his personal statement that let him down. Yeah, cos that's what really matters when it comes to medicine.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.
I'm not sure I like the idea of telling medical students that they have to stay in the NHS or else face a hefty bill, but given that it is oversubscribed, those that get in should realize how lucky they have been to have been chosen.0 -
Indeed - the UK is almost the only EU country with a non-contributory based option - but wait for the howls of protest from Farron , etc if it was changed.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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Good morning, everyone.
I was surprised by the James' resignation last night. Perhaps I shouldn't've been.
Mr. Max, sounds reminiscent of mad Conservative plans to shame restaurants that serve large puddings.0 -
Of course he does .felix said:
Lol - I think you must like the abuse you get on hereAlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
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In Leicester the personal statement is not scored for shortlisting. There are too many off the peg statements on the internet for them to have any value.tlg86 said:
When I was at college, a friend of mine applied for medicine (at Brighton, Leicester, Sheffield and Nottingham - I think). He got four As in his AS Levels in maths, chemistry, biology and physics. He didn't even get an interview. We think it was his personal statement that let him down. Yeah, cos that's what really matters when it comes to medicine.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.
I'm not sure I like the idea of telling medical students that they have to stay in the NHS or else face a hefty bill, but given that it is oversubscribed, those that get in should realize how lucky they have been to have been chosen.
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She has a big poll lead so her views seem pretty centrist to most British voters it seemskle4 said:
Did you notice I said the views on immigration concern are indeed centrist? I do not share those concerns but know most people do, to some extent. My uncertainty was how centrist she will be generally. Given the ones on the right seem happiest, inpresume her talk of centrism is a distraction.HYUFD said:
May's statements on immigration are in line with what the average voter thinks and more liberal than what the white working class think which shows how out of touch the metropolitan liberal elite were on the issuekle4 said:
Utter farce.rottenborough said:
It appears she failed to sign some crucial document. All this might explain why she didn't attend any of the hustings events over the summer.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: Nigel Farage confirms he is still "technically" the leader of @UKIP
Sadly there is definitely pandering going on, but I cannot figure out at this point if may is still interested in other centre ground issues (immigration concern is not shared by me, but is surely a centre ground issue for a great many of the public so pandering on that is not really right wing) or if that's just talk to distract from a hard pitch to the right. Certainly the Tory equivalent of Corbynistas seem very happy at the moment, and keen to repudiate all aspects of camerons leadership, so I have to assume they are moving sharply to the right. Always a risk of course, particular with labour showing how popular with the grassroots it is.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preferencements before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.0 -
Then fix the underlying cause, firefighting the symptoms is going to cause a lot of unnecessary upset.RochdalePioneers said:
And why is that the case? Because we have decided as a nation that we can't afford it, have cut the funding to the bone and then let the private sector try and profit from it.TheScreamingEagles said:Last night the morons were saying it was just The I newspaper hyperbole
Amber Rudd says already having 'early conversations' with sectors such as adult social care that have v.high proportion of foreign workers
A high proportion of foreign workers because they're willing/able to exist on the low wages and long hours that goes with the job. If it was better respected and better paid British people might be interested.0 -
#1 Brexit nearly all of those barriers Katie faced. #2 The one barrier Katie faced which has been lifted, the cap, could have been lifted without Brexit. #3 If she studies Nursing Katie will now need a plan as the Tories have just abolished Nursing Bursaries to pay for lifting the cap on training places.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.0 -
It does sound an awful experience if you're not there voting on policy. You might as well just watch it on tv.PlatoSaid said:Mr Deacon is finding the Tory conference dull
On and on they drone. Time drips by. I can feel my soul seeping out of me, gram by gram. My body sagging. My bones turning to rubber. I daydream about walking out, but I’m not sure I’d have the strength.
Still, at least I’m getting paid to sit here. Think of the party members. They’ve paid up to £520 each for this. They don’t get to vote on policy, or to express their opinions. They’re paying through the nose for the privilege of clapping. From time to time they get to their feet for a standing ovation. I don’t think they’re actually impressed. They’ve just got pins and needles.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/ive-spent-three-days-at-tory-conference-now-i-know-what-death-fe/0 -
Absolutely right.RochdalePioneers said:
And why is that the case? Because we have decided as a nation that we can't afford it, have cut the funding to the bone and then let the private sector try and profit from it.TheScreamingEagles said:Last night the morons were saying it was just The I newspaper hyperbole
Amber Rudd says already having 'early conversations' with sectors such as adult social care that have v.high proportion of foreign workers
A high proportion of foreign workers because they're willing/able to exist on the low wages and long hours that goes with the job. If it was better respected and better paid British people might be interested.0 -
FPT:
If one was looking to make an argument, one could suggest that the so called liberal elite, the AB metropolitans and Guardianista are even more incandescent than usual at the moment, not just because the masses voted against staying the EU, a touchstone of their faith, but in that act they made politicians remember there were more people in the country what the noisy chattering classes.
The upper middle class, the media, the City and the upper echelons of the public sector have had two decades of being shameless pandered to, first by Blair and then by Cameron, they have grown up, or grown old being used to politicians giving them what they want, or at least sounding as if they wanted to give them what they want, and now all of a sudden the politicians are starting to notice that they have been holding that conversation with a relatively small section of the population, and that large, forgotten sections of the country are starting to get restless at the inattention.
Maybe some people sitting behind their morning Guardian are starting to get a bit nervous, they fear with some justification that politicians are starting to look at the country a bit more broadly, and that their interests might not received the attention that they are used to. Historically they would have looked for a Blair or a Clegg in the other parties to listen to them, but all they can see is navel gazing and irrelevance, and they begin to wonder if the barbarians are at the door.0 -
There are better ways indeed, but that wasn't really my point. The immigration policy I mention was simply representative of advocates of the extreme globalisation advocated by Blair and Cameron seemed to cherish. Foxinsox seems to think this is the mainstream view and that opposing it is somehow narrowing the Tory reach; it is in fact a minority view, not shared by most voters.MaxPB said:
I don't want open borders and unlimited immigration, yet I'm completely against any kind of policy to "name and shame" businesses which hire foreign workers. There are better ways to decrease migration. Either something is legal or it isn't, if the government isn't going to introduce restrictions on migration to reduce the numbers then it shouldn't shame companies who take advantage of cheap labour.Mortimer said:
I'm afraid I think that view is simply wrong. May's cabinet is far less of a chumocracy, and her reach far more inclusive than Dave's was. It just doesn't pander to the sort of extreme neo-liberalism (like open borders and unlimited immigration) that some on here seem to want.foxinsoxuk said:
I would not use the words that you do, but it is an appeal to Daily Mail voters.AlastairMeeks said:
We have record employment levels at present. This is not about solving problems, this is about pandering to bigots.foxinsoxuk said:
Local preference is not a bad thing in employment. I haven't seen the detail of what Rudd proposes, but I think it is mostly the spin on it of "naming and shaming" that is the give away. Local preference is best achieved by havjng employable youngsters, a benefits system that favours work, and several years of NI payments before benefits are payable (hence favouring locals). All perfectly possible within the EU Single Market, and always has been.AlastairMeeks said:I'm surprised Amber Rudd has been so restrained. It would be far better if the EU workers were readily identifiable by right thinking people so that they as well as their employers could be shamed. Issuing them with compulsory badges with twelve yellow stars would be a start.
May is the first Tory PM in years to ask Maggies Question "Is he one of us?". She is not aiming to be all inclusive in her reach out to Britons, but she does realise (unlike many senior Tories) that the vast majority of her voters are dependent on the NHS and State education.
Really, this is all reactive, the government needs to look at why British workers are so often considered uncompetitive with foreign workers or (in the case of the medical sector) why we have such systemic shortages of qualified workers.0 -
Leading Remainer who was tone deaf in the campaign is still tone deaf. I am shocked. Still, nice for her fellow travelers to feel justified in their views of leave by this.0
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FPT: Yes, even Prime Minister Nick Griffin wouldn't be able to guarantee to get immigration down to less than 100,000. The government has no control over emigration, or U.K. citizens returning home (who are counted as migrants in the figures, as is offen conveniently forgotten)0
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But responsibility for that ultimately lies on the public. We can hardly blame politicians for trying to do what we ask, even if some think they should stand firmer.FF43 said:
Turmoil in the party actually running Britain is causing the pound to plummet.rottenborough said:Morning all,
UKIP seem in turmoil.
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Also FPT:
Indeed. The byproduct is that a generous welfare state means are people are unwilling to accept a standard of living that is tolerable, or even welcomed by immigrants from less well off countries, so those immigrants take the jobs.HYUFD said:
No the welfare state has stopped people starving in the streets as happened in Victorian times, unless you get all your Broccoli from food banks most developed nations introduced a welfare state for a reasonPaul_Bedfordshire said:
Agreed. My wife is from Africa.
One day she made soup out of left over Brocolli stalks (I and 99% of brits would have binned them.
She pointed out that when you live in a country with no social security and you go through bad times with a three day week that is how you make ends meet.
It was nice soup too.
The welfare state existing has made us uncompetitive as we dont need to be so competitive to survive.
It is of course why wealthy civilisations collapse in on themselves.
There is a basic nexus here that people are really trying hard not to understand, because the implications are too painful. When people do a job, they generate a certain amount of value for their employer, if the employer pays them more than the value they generate for his business, he will rapidly go out of business. In current market conditions, given international competition, the amount of value most unskilled workers can generate is around the minimum wage. If that amount of money doesn't produce an acceptable standard of living with acceptable residue money no one will take the job.
However the standard of living is acceptable for many immigrants, and isn't for many locals, so the immigrants take the jobs. Increasing pay doesn't change the equation, a higher salary means a better standard of living, or more residual cash. At the sort of pay levels an unskilled local would consider acceptable we are moving into the standard of living that many better qualified or more experienced immigrants would find acceptable, so the local still doesn't get the job.
It's about expectation and entitlement.
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Mr. Cwsc, sad to hear that story. Hope Katie makes a success of things.0
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Everyone who threatened to leave the UK after small Jun Doc contract changes ought to be ashamed of themselves - it sounds like Katie would jump at the chance of that they have had and are willing to throw in the NHS' face.YellowSubmarine said:
#1 Brexit nearly all of those barriers Katie faced. #2 The one barrier Katie faced which has been lifted, the cap, could have been lifted without Brexit. #3 If she studies Nursing Katie will now need a plan as the Tories have just abolished Nursing Bursaries to pay for lifting the cap on training places.YBarddCwsc said:Down the street in the Welsh town where I live, there is a 16 year old girl who wants to become a doctor. Her name is Katie.
Katie's father is a retired nurse, her mother never worked, they have little income. She has never been abroard, they never take holidays, she shares a bedroom in a tiny house.
The local secondary school is in special measures (it’s Wales, there is less funding per pupil here than in areas like London where money is poured in).
Despite all this, she did very well in her GCSEs. I encouraged her in her ambition to become a doctor, and she has recently been to some open days in medicine at various universities.
She returned very depressed. For the first time, she encountered people like her, but from another world -- very different backgrounds, with all the advantages of a privileged education (whether at a well-resourced state school in the South East or an independent school).
She had begun to realise that -- with medical place arbitrarily limited by the Government -- that she would never be able to get into medical school. She has started to look at applying for a degree in nursing instead.
A few weeks ago, her father asked me: “Why when we need doctors, and when we have people who want to become doctors, does the Government restrict the number of places to study medicine at University”.
I am pleased that more people in this country (of whatever background) will have the opportunity to train as doctors and realise their full potential.0
