On reflection, I suspect Cameron has said much of this before in his speeches over the years....
Of course he has, although she's moving rather to the left of the Osborne/Cameron position.
I think she's trying to grab the perception that the Tories are the party of the rich bull by the horns.
It's not really a perception though is it. Maybe not at grassroots level t everythin about the way Camborne governed suggested that was exactly what they were.
(Roughly) - Labour are a party that are not only divided, but divisive - abusing their own MP's, accepting anti-semitism and being a party of protest. You know what some people call them. (pause for effect). The Nasty Party. (roar of approval from conference)
Like EiT I'm tempted to laugh quite hard at all the free marketeer Brexiters who can't believe the turn of events we've seen. Th idea that what Kipper-facing Tory voters wanted was for the government to complete in Nigel Lawson's words 'Thatcher's revolution' never had any basis. Whatever you think of May her approach is probably the only one in British politis at the moment that can secure 38-40% of the vote. Not bad in fractured times.
Patrick referred to the liberal left consensus post-Thatcher. Of course that depends how you define left and right but I don't think many people thought any post-1990 government had been on the left - with the exception maybe of Gordon Brown 2007-10.
Blair was on the left. State spending rose dramatically during his time in office. He had a very left wing Chancellor.
Blair was well to the right of Macmillan -Heath - Macleod - RA Butler. He kept on privatising industries left untouched by the Tories. Neither Blair or Brown tried to reverse Thatcherism in any serious way and that probably explains much of Corbyn's appeal.
I think she's trying to grab the perception that the Tories are the party of the rich bull by the horns.
Yes. It's rather distasteful in the sense that she's exploiting the class resentment against Cameron to define herself differently, but, hey, politics is a rough game, and he's history now. Ruthlessness is a good trait in a leader, of course.
Well, I think they've always both been modernisers but had different views as to what that modernisation should look like.
Cameron did hire Coulson to try and balance up the message for a blue collar audience but I was never convinced he fully replaced that role once he fell from grace. And prob suffered for it.
LA poll, out of kilter! Yes. It is not a poll in the strictest sense of the word, but a Tracking Group the same people who are regularly asked. It omits 10% of no view. Regarding the headlines this morning, I guess that will mean the 2 million or so previous Lib Dem voters who voted Conservative in 2015 to keep out Labout and the SNP, will now have gone back to the Lib Dems, this is what is probably showing in the local by elections.
It's probably more like 500,000 or so ex-Lib Dems who voted Conservative in 2015. And, anyone who voted Conservative to keep out Milliband will vote Conservative to keep out Corbyn.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
(Roughly) - Labour are a party that are not only divided, but divisive - abusing their own MP's, accepting anti-semitism and being a party of protest. You know what some people call them. (pause for effect). The Nasty Party. (roar of approval from conference)
I've been calling Labour the nasty party for as long as I've been on PB. Good to see it finally getting some more traction.
Like EiT I'm tempted to laugh quite hard at all the free marketeer Brexiters who can't believe the turn of events we've seen. Th idea that what Kipper-facing Tory voters wanted was for the government to complete in Nigel Lawson's words 'Thatcher's revolution' never had any basis. Whatever you think of May her approach is probably the only one in British politis at the moment that can secure 38-40% of the vote. Not bad in fractured times.
Patrick referred to the liberal left consensus post-Thatcher. Of course that depends how you define left and right but I don't think many people thought any post-1990 government had been on the left - with the exception maybe of Gordon Brown 2007-10.
Blair was on the left. State spending rose dramatically during his time in office. He had a very left wing Chancellor.
Blair was well to the right of Macmillan -Heath - Macleod - RA Butler. He kept on privatising industries left untouched by the Tories. Neither Blair or Brown tried to reverse Thatcherism in any serious way and that probably explains much of Corbyn's appeal.
I think it's difficult to compare pre and post 'settlement era' politicians. Also, the left can no longer do what it did because it supported the EU, and that tied its hands over how the state interacted with business, labour law and other such issues that were traditionally its preserve. All it has left is public services, spending and social change through the criminal law.
LA poll, out of kilter! Yes. It is not a poll in the strictest sense of the word, but a Tracking Group the same people who are regularly asked. It omits 10% of no view. Regarding the headlines this morning, I guess that will mean the 2 million or so previous Lib Dem voters who voted Conservative in 2015 to keep out Labout and the SNP, will now have gone back to the Lib Dems, this is what is probably showing in the local by elections.
It's probably more like 500,000 or so ex-Lib Dems who voted Conservative in 2015. And, anyone who voted Conservative to keep out Milliband will vote Conservative to keep out Corbyn.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
Fear of Corbyn probably wont work if they are bouncing along in the low 20%s
LA poll, out of kilter! Yes. It is not a poll in the strictest sense of the word, but a Tracking Group the same people who are regularly asked. It omits 10% of no view. Regarding the headlines this morning, I guess that will mean the 2 million or so previous Lib Dem voters who voted Conservative in 2015 to keep out Labout and the SNP, will now have gone back to the Lib Dems, this is what is probably showing in the local by elections.
It's probably more like 500,000 or so ex-Lib Dems who voted Conservative in 2015. And, anyone who voted Conservative to keep out Milliband will vote Conservative to keep out Corbyn.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
It's a very dangerous mistake to think that all those Lib Dem seats were lost simply because of people switching to the Tories. Many Lib Dem voters abandoned them in disgust at the coalition. Those seats are a big unknown next time.
LA poll, out of kilter! Yes. It is not a poll in the strictest sense of the word, but a Tracking Group the same people who are regularly asked. It omits 10% of no view. Regarding the headlines this morning, I guess that will mean the 2 million or so previous Lib Dem voters who voted Conservative in 2015 to keep out Labout and the SNP, will now have gone back to the Lib Dems, this is what is probably showing in the local by elections.
It's probably more like 500,000 or so ex-Lib Dems who voted Conservative in 2015. And, anyone who voted Conservative to keep out Milliband will vote Conservative to keep out Corbyn.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
It's a very dangerous mistake to think that all those Lib Dem seats were lost simply because of people switching to the Tories. Many Lib Dem voters abandoned them in disgust at the coalition. Those seats are a big unknown next time.
The LDs also have plenty of Labour votes to hoover up - especially given the immigrant rhetoric we have heard this week.
that peroration was pretty duff. Reminiscent of "House of Cards"
Now is the time when we can afford to share our hard-won gains with those less successful than ourselves. And now, let our watchword be this. Let's find the right way for all of our people to come together.
Nice chap - just like his wife, no side - and ironically made it to President of the Oxford Union, unlike Theresa who got no further than Librarian....
Like EiT I'm tempted to laugh quite hard at all the free marketeer Brexiters who can't believe the turn of events we've seen. Th idea that what Kipper-facing Tory voters wanted was for the government to complete in Nigel Lawson's words 'Thatcher's revolution' never had any basis. Whatever you think of May her approach is probably the only one in British politis at the moment that can secure 38-40% of the vote. Not bad in fractured times.
Patrick referred to the liberal left consensus post-Thatcher. Of course that depends how you define left and right but I don't think many people thought any post-1990 government had been on the left - with the exception maybe of Gordon Brown 2007-10.
Blair was on the left. State spending rose dramatically during his time in office. He had a very left wing Chancellor.
Blair was well to the right of Macmillan -Heath - Macleod - RA Butler. He kept on privatising industries left untouched by the Tories. Neither Blair or Brown tried to reverse Thatcherism in any serious way and that probably explains much of Corbyn's appeal.
I think it's difficult to compare pre and post 'settlement era' politicians. Also, the left can no longer do what it did because it supported the EU, and that tied its hands over how the state interacted with business, labour law and other such issues that were traditionally its preserve. All it has left is public services, spending and social change through the criminal law.
But the 'settlement' did not have to be accepted and I believe the electorate was in the mood to reverse a fair bit of the Thatcher/Major policies by 1997.I am not suggesting that Blair/Brown should have gone as far as the likes of Corbyn would have done but they could have gone a lot further than they did -ie pursued Hattersley/Healey/John Smith type policies.Had they done so a lot of the disillusionment felt by circa 2001 would have been avoided.
LA poll, out of kilter! Yes. It is not a poll in the strictest sense of the word, but a Tracking Group the same people who are regularly asked. It omits 10% of no view. Regarding the headlines this morning, I guess that will mean the 2 million or so previous Lib Dem voters who voted Conservative in 2015 to keep out Labout and the SNP, will now have gone back to the Lib Dems, this is what is probably showing in the local by elections.
It's probably more like 500,000 or so ex-Lib Dems who voted Conservative in 2015. And, anyone who voted Conservative to keep out Milliband will vote Conservative to keep out Corbyn.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
It's a very dangerous mistake to think that all those Lib Dem seats were lost simply because of people switching to the Tories. Many Lib Dem voters abandoned them in disgust at the coalition. Those seats are a big unknown next time.
The Lib Dems were very good at persuading most non-Tories to vote for them tactically, while leaving quite large Tory votes in place in many seats. It didn't need many people switching from the Lib Dems (either to the Tories or other parties) to lose a lot of seats.
Emphasising their left wing and pro-EU credentials may very well get back a lot of the Labour voters, but won't get back many of the Conservative and UKIP voters.
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
She won't. And she is not likely to be facing Corbyn in 2020. Tories should still win, but it is unlikely to mark the beginning of a one party state.
Thing is once the Conservatives are dug in and control the centre ground territory it won't be easy for Labout to get that back even if they come to their senses and appoint a leader from that political spectrum.
''I don't see any examples of free market policies.''
I was being charitable. Hopefully she won;t shut down the ones we have!
Its a survivalists vision, difficult to criticise, slap bang in the centre. Its masterly inaction, make sure you stay in office stuff. Its a vision for Theresa, who loves to be in charge, and doesn;t have any real commitment to anything beyond that.
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
She won't. And she is not likely to be facing Corbyn in 2020. Tories should still win, but it is unlikely to mark the beginning of a one party state.
Thing is once the Conservatives are dug in and control the centre ground territory it won't be easy for Labout to get that back even if they come to their senses and appoint a leader from that political spectrum.
I think coming to their senses in 2020 is a bit optimistic, the membership will take the view that it was Jeremy personally that was the problem and not his unsaleable policy platform, this will be combined with the expectation that they are almost there but were not quite left-wing enough to engage the electorate, so "one more push comrades".
Andrew Neill isnt doing a good job here, he is too distracted trying to get Ruth Davison to slip up on silly things & not challenging what may has said.
A very welcome recognition that QE is like chemotherapy that isn't working (paraphrasing only slightly)
I want to see more details on this in the next few weeks, but it is heartening to hear someone at the top at least seems to have an inkling there's a problem here. Half the problem has been the lack of recognition there is a problem!
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
She won't. And she is not likely to be facing Corbyn in 2020. Tories should still win, but it is unlikely to mark the beginning of a one party state.
Thing is once the Conservatives are dug in and control the centre ground territory it won't be easy for Labout to get that back even if they come to their senses and appoint a leader from that political spectrum.
There are so many events coming our way that controlling anything is going to be tough.
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
Just a shame she doesn't appear to have (or isn't yet willing to disclose) much idea as to how she will go about it.
It is a vision and will take time but the direction of her government is established. The Queens speech will be interesting
It's fascinating to see May disown the economic policies she has spent the last six years supporting. I look forward to watching many on here undertake similar journeys :-)
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
She won't. And she is not likely to be facing Corbyn in 2020. Tories should still win, but it is unlikely to mark the beginning of a one party state.
Perhaps. Theresa May has had two political achievements so far and they are quite big ones. (1) She managed to survive as Home Secretary for the unusually long period of six years. (2) she managed not to get wiped out by Brexit, unlike almost every other player in the previous regime, including Cameron himself.
Note that both those results were arrived at by Theresa May carefully not doing anything. Will she change her winning formula now?
Nothing wrong with being patriotic, of course. I'm a patriot myself, but applying it to economics is not a good idea IMO, the Chinese get away with it because they manufacture the world's products and no one really wants to pick a fight with them. I'm not sure we'll get the same level of leeway.
LA poll, out of kilter! Yes. It is not a poll in the strictest sense of the word, but a Tracking Group the same people who are regularly asked. It omits 10% of no view. Regarding the headlines this morning, I guess that will mean the 2 million or so previous Lib Dem voters who voted Conservative in 2015 to keep out Labout and the SNP, will now have gone back to the Lib Dems, this is what is probably showing in the local by elections.
It's probably more like 500,000 or so ex-Lib Dems who voted Conservative in 2015. And, anyone who voted Conservative to keep out Milliband will vote Conservative to keep out Corbyn.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
It's a very dangerous mistake to think that all those Lib Dem seats were lost simply because of people switching to the Tories. Many Lib Dem voters abandoned them in disgust at the coalition. Those seats are a big unknown next time.
The LDs also have plenty of Labour votes to hoover up - especially given the immigrant rhetoric we have heard this week.
Indeed. Labour HQ's press office's response to yesterday's immigration speeches was to put out a release criticising HMG for not having limited immigration to the Tories' election-promised target.
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
She won't. And she is not likely to be facing Corbyn in 2020. Tories should still win, but it is unlikely to mark the beginning of a one party state.
Perhaps. Theresa May has had two political achievements so far and they are quite big ones. (1) She managed to survive as Home Secretary for the unusually long period of six years. (2) she managed not to get wiped out by Brexit, unlike almost every other player in the previous regime, including Cameron himself.
Note that both those results were arrived at by Theresa May carefully not doing anything. Will she change her winning formula now?
Keeping your head down is much trickier when you are PM and there is a Brexit deal to negotiate.
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
She won't. And she is not likely to be facing Corbyn in 2020. Tories should still win, but it is unlikely to mark the beginning of a one party state.
Perhaps. Theresa May has had two political achievements so far and they are quite big ones. (1) She managed to survive as Home Secretary for the unusually long period of six years. (2) she managed not to get wiped out by Brexit, unlike almost every other player in the previous regime, including Cameron himself.
Note that both those results were arrived at by Theresa May carefully not doing anything. Will she change her winning formula now?
You omitted achievement (3), which is that she managed not to be Andrea Leadsom. The sum total of the three is not much more than being the last man standing.
Labour are fucked for decades if she achieves just half of what she preaches or believes.
Just a shame she doesn't appear to have (or isn't yet willing to disclose) much idea as to how she will go about it.
It is a vision and will take time but the direction of her government is established. The Queens speech will be interesting
It's fascinating to see May disown the economic policies she has spent the last six years supporting. I look forward to watching many on here undertake similar journeys :-)
That's a misreading of collective responsibility. She may well have disagreed with some of those policies strongly around the cabinet table, but in public she is bound to support what has been decided. Now its her cabinet table and a new cabinet, so things are different.
Nothing wrong with being patriotic, of course. I'm a patriot myself, but applying it to economics is not a good idea IMO, the Chinese get away with it because they manufacture the world's products and no one really wants to pick a fight with them. I'm not sure we'll get the same level of leeway.
They also do not have an independent judiciary or free movement of capital.
''May is building a government that will wipe people's arses for them. What happened to personal responsibility?''
Its a bet hedgers government. Some genuine free market toryism, some increasing statism.
May is the goldilocks PM. Not too hot, not too cold, not too blue, not too red. No criticism for me please.
I don't see any examples of free market policies.
Someone on twitter has suggested Mayism is 'National Socialism', in a non-Nazi way... ie patriotic and big government.
More like the Chinese IMO. Patriotic semi-market economy. So far I'm not a huge fan.
TBF the Chinese patriotic semi-market economy is far and away the greatest force for wealth creation and elimination of poverty in the history of mankind, so the model shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
The hitch is that the Chinese version is *technocratic* and run by *policy elites*, and you're not allowed those in post-Brexit Britain, so what you're left with is a top-down government micro-managing everybody's lives, based on the principle of what feels like might work to people who have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing.
I'm not entirely convinced this will be a successful formula.
''May is building a government that will wipe people's arses for them. What happened to personal responsibility?''
Its a bet hedgers government. Some genuine free market toryism, some increasing statism.
May is the goldilocks PM. Not too hot, not too cold, not too blue, not too red. No criticism for me please.
Non-rhetorically, what's the genuine free-market toryism part?
This speech certainly owes more to Disraeli and Joseph Chamberlain and Major than Peel and early years Thatcher and Cameron but then the Tories have often switched between protectionism and nationalism and free market liberalism. The Liberals have been the only party which has always been pro market and pro free trade
I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.
I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.
''May is building a government that will wipe people's arses for them. What happened to personal responsibility?''
Its a bet hedgers government. Some genuine free market toryism, some increasing statism.
May is the goldilocks PM. Not too hot, not too cold, not too blue, not too red. No criticism for me please.
I don't see any examples of free market policies.
Someone on twitter has suggested Mayism is 'National Socialism', in a non-Nazi way... ie patriotic and big government.
More like the Chinese IMO. Patriotic semi-market economy. So far I'm not a huge fan.
TBF the Chinese patriotic semi-market economy is far and away the greatest force for wealth creation and elimination of poverty in the history of mankind, so the model shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
The hitch is that the Chinese version is *technocratic* and run by *policy elites*, and you're not allowed those in post-Brexit Britain, so what you're left with is a top-down government micro-managing everybody's lives, based on the principle of what feels like might work to people who have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing.
I'm not entirely convinced this will be a successful formula.
A command economy might work in China because of lesser overall wealth and some element of catching up with the rest of the world. I don't see how it works for a nation with far above average wealth and voters who might not like restriction of choices.
I'm worried for the government at the moment. This is not what people voted for in 2015. Brexit may have changed the political landscape, but abandoning free market economics and instituting semi-market economics is not what people voted for. If she wants to make such a radical departure from the 2015 manifesto then she should put it to the people.
People voted to control immigration even if it means some loss of free trade
Nothing wrong with being patriotic, of course. I'm a patriot myself, but applying it to economics is not a good idea IMO, the Chinese get away with it because they manufacture the world's products and no one really wants to pick a fight with them. I'm not sure we'll get the same level of leeway.
They also do not have an independent judiciary or free movement of capital.
There is a similarity though in the executive doing what it wants to support revolutionary principles and the Peoples' Congress providing the rubber stamp.
Comments
Actually I think this is a speech Cameron never could (nor would) have delivered
He was scared of 'class'......
A double whammy of Mondeo Man and Colonel Mustard Cords at the same time.
Edit: Oh, and of course, if the polls are believed, it is popular with the public at large.
May says if we accept that, we can build a united Britain.
The main lesson she takes from Labour is that Labour is not just divided, but divisive.
It is keen to pit one against another, she says.
It stands for fighting among themselves, trying to end careers, tolerating antisemitsm.
You know what some people call them - the nasty party.
Ben
May: They've (Labour) given up the right to call themselves the party of the NHS, the party of workers, the party of public servants"
#cpc16
I suppose she did make the same point.
Cameron did hire Coulson to try and balance up the message for a blue collar audience but I was never convinced he fully replaced that role once he fell from grace. And prob suffered for it.
There are perhaps half a dozen Conservative seats that are potentially vulnerable to the Lib Dems, but no more.
Its a bet hedgers government. Some genuine free market toryism, some increasing statism.
May is the goldilocks PM. Not too hot, not too cold, not too blue, not too red. No criticism for me please.
(Not a looker, is he?)
I didn't think my dislike of the snot-filled green carbuncle of a project had been noticed.
Provence was nice, but now wish I had made it to the conference after all.
Well May committed herself to it! I think you make a fair point actually. May ain;t no Thatcher. Not by a long chalk.
Now is the time when we can afford to share our hard-won gains with those less successful than ourselves. And now, let our watchword be this. Let's find the right way for all of our people to come together.
Emphasising their left wing and pro-EU credentials may very well get back a lot of the Labour voters, but won't get back many of the Conservative and UKIP voters.
I was being charitable. Hopefully she won;t shut down the ones we have!
Its a survivalists vision, difficult to criticise, slap bang in the centre. Its masterly inaction, make sure you stay in office stuff. Its a vision for Theresa, who loves to be in charge, and doesn;t have any real commitment to anything beyond that.
Note that both those results were arrived at by Theresa May carefully not doing anything. Will she change her winning formula now?
Mr. Observer (2), what fate do you believe will befall Chairman Corbyn?
May needs to get herself a decent speechwriter. But it didn't matter today. "I hear you. Trust me" she said. And they will.
The hitch is that the Chinese version is *technocratic* and run by *policy elites*, and you're not allowed those in post-Brexit Britain, so what you're left with is a top-down government micro-managing everybody's lives, based on the principle of what feels like might work to people who have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing.
I'm not entirely convinced this will be a successful formula.
Absolutely, although Brexit is the one place where May seems to be pretty firm. It will be pretty hard.
It wouldn;t surprise me if the tories ditched her after it has been negotiated.
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