politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meet the new boss – what TMay’s first 60 days tell us abou
Comments
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She would go with the FPD/Greens, or with the SPD for another Grand Coalition.rcs1000 said:
The only way the AfD could be in government would be as the junior partner in a CDU/CDU coalition. Which would require Mrs Merkel to get something in the mid 30s, and the AfD something in the mid to high teens.Philip_Thompson said:
Local elections vs national elections are different. Plus under their voting system there is no chance of the AfD forming a government so even if her party loses support it is still polling at the front of a Grand Coalition.SquareRoot said:
Well she got thrashed in the recent elections, or her party did.. and that doesn't augur well.Philip_Thompson said:
You think Merkel is going to lose? Who will win in her place?SquareRoot said:
It will be all change anyway so what current leaders say is not really relevant, looks like Mrs Merkel wont be re-elected and Hollande=LOLSouthamObserver said:
Yep - giving into the UK will not be a vote winner.taffys said:''Not good for northern Europe.''
I'm not even sure an 'OK' as per Mr Southam's comment is sustainable from their side.
The default assumption of remainers is that Europe is a continent somehow at peace with itself and its geopolitical arrangements.
Have they seen the economic numbers? have they seen the polls? Have they seen what happened in an election in Merkel's backyard recently?
In short, do they read the news?
I am no expert on German politics, but people I know in Germany say she is losing her popularity .... especially after the migrant issue
The issue is that Mrs Merkel would - in this scenario - have the pick of coalition partners. She could head up a new Grand Coalition; or should could get into bed with the FPD and the Greens.
I think Merkel's attitude to entering coalition with the AfD would be similar to that of Cameron doing the same with UKIP.
Except an even stronger dislike.0 -
You might not think so but the Guardian and Independent were getting excited beforehand:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
' Pro-EU music lovers have been out in force since the early hours of Saturday at the Royal Albert Hall to hand out thousands of EU flags to concertgoers before the Last Night of the Proms. '
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/10/european-union-flags-handed-out-last-night-of-the-proms-brexit
' Campaigners are planning to fill the Royal Albert Hall with a sea of blue EU flags on the Last Night of the Proms as part of an anti-Brexit protest.
Audience members at the BBC concert traditionally wave Union Jack flags in a display of patriotic revelry to well-known anthems such as Rule Britannia, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory.
But at this year’s event, which takes place on Saturday, volunteers will hand out 5,000 EU flags so concert-goers can “show UK solidarity with the EU”. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/last-night-of-the-proms-brexit-protest-eu-flags-bbc-albert-hall-crowdfunded-a7231546.html
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The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.Casino_Royale said:
Under Article 50 the deal also requires the 'consent' of the European Parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to work.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
The nice thing about Article 50 is that it only requires a QMV vote to ratify the agreement between the EU and the exiting country. (Which means that you effectively only need agreement from France, Germany, Spain and Italy.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I'm unclear as to what this means, but I suspect as a starting point it would mean it'd need to carry a simple majority of MEPs.
One hopes this wouldn't be a major problem if it had carried with QMV in the European Council, but with Verhofstadht who knows.0 -
I managed 12 seconds before my wife ordered the channel changed. It did sound like a cat had its tail caught in the door. Watched Joanna touring Japan instead and that was excellent, really top class. Have put Japan top of any bucket list I ever do.GIN1138 said:0 -
Fair enough. Thanks for that - I was unaware!edmundintokyo said:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/77541/listen-jeremy-corbyn-calls-snap-general-electionjustin124 said:
I am not aware that Corbyn has said that - though an election was demanded by a member of his Shadow Cabinet.edmundintokyo said:
Corbyn has already called for an early general election. If May said she wanted one, would Labour really vote to keep her government in office?theakes said:Fort the umpteenth time, she has virtually no chance of an early election, to call for two votes of no confidence in herself would make her a laughing stock and lead to probable defeat, loss of majority anyway and her resignation, the 2010 Parliament Act rules okay.
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You were suggesting that the Conservatives were misleading the public.Chris said:
I simply made a statement of fact, which you seem to agree with!Charles said:Yes the bottom decile was hit the hardest (apart from the top decile). But that is inevitable if you are of the belief that the legacy welfare system was poorly designed and created the wrong incentives.
What you are arguing for is a ratchet in absolute benefit payments which seems entirely contrary to democratic principles
I disagree: they believe that the new structures are better for people than trapping them with cash handouts. For me that indicates a greater degree of care for the welfare of people than Labour for whom "Bung them some cash and we can ignore them" appears to be the mantra0 -
Mr. Royale, the complexity of the EU is one of its drawbacks. If MEPs declined a deal, which fell through, and we then had a WTO relationship, which severely damaged (say) German car makers, I can't imagine that would endear Germany to the EU [although they are amongst the most pro-EU countries].
At the same time, the Germans would be getting whacked with increasing costs as the next biggest net contributor exits stage right.0 -
You can always rely on Mrs Bucket....Can anybody remember when the opposition has been such as a shower of shit? They are worse than the Tories post 1997.dr_spyn said:Emily "don't start pub quizzing me" Thornberry
https://twitter.com/SkyMurnaghan/status/774899527283187712
Doing her bit to keep Rudd out of the headlights.0 -
LoTo are a bit trapped in such situations I think. A new PM without an election means they have to demand a new election, if they don't say it someone will and they'll get asked don't they think they'll win then or some such.justin124 said:
Fair enough. Thanks for that - I was unaware!edmundintokyo said:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/77541/listen-jeremy-corbyn-calls-snap-general-electionjustin124 said:
I am not aware that Corbyn has said that - though an election was demanded by a member of his Shadow Cabinet.edmundintokyo said:
Corbyn has already called for an early general election. If May said she wanted one, would Labour really vote to keep her government in office?theakes said:Fort the umpteenth time, she has virtually no chance of an early election, to call for two votes of no confidence in herself would make her a laughing stock and lead to probable defeat, loss of majority anyway and her resignation, the 2010 Parliament Act rules okay.
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Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 400 -
I am always reluctant not (woops!) to laugh at Colonel Bucket but to be honest I thought the French Foreign Minister was still Fabius. Apparently this changed in March to someone called Ayrault. Just as well I am not shadow foreign secretary.0
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Joanna Lumley is a VERY classy lady... And she managed to humiliate Gord and that other bloke whose name escapes me!malcolmg said:
I managed 12 seconds before my wife ordered the channel changed. It did sound like a cat had its tail caught in the door. Watched Joanna touring Japan instead and that was excellent, really top class. Have put Japan top of any bucket list I ever do.GIN1138 said:
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I hope so.tlg86 said:
To be fair, she has had a number of different briefs in the past year!oxfordsimon said:
Being Foreign Secretary is about building and maintaining good working relationships with your international colleagues. That involves knowing who they are!Charles said:
It's a silly game of gotcha.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Spyn, outrageous to expect the Shadow Foreign Secretary to know who the French Foreign Secretary is, They'll be expecting her to be able to point to France on a map next.
[I'm assuming she's shadow foreign secretary. Can't remember, to be honest. But then, it's not my job].
Her views on policy matter (to an extent). where she knows who the vice president if tajikistan is doesn't. In a situation where she needed to know (assuming she was in power) she would be briefed on the facts.
She should be engaged in conversations with her political friends in France - but she clearly isn't.
Yes, it might feel like a silly game to some - but to me it is about being fully up to speed with your brief. Knowing who they key players are - even when you are in opposition.
She clearly doesn't. She has been over-promoted and is clearly not up to the task.
Gnarfff
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Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:
You might not think so but the Guardian and Independent were getting excited beforehand:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
' Pro-EU music lovers have been out in force since the early hours of Saturday at the Royal Albert Hall to hand out thousands of EU flags to concertgoers before the Last Night of the Proms. '
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/10/european-union-flags-handed-out-last-night-of-the-proms-brexit
' Campaigners are planning to fill the Royal Albert Hall with a sea of blue EU flags on the Last Night of the Proms as part of an anti-Brexit protest.
Audience members at the BBC concert traditionally wave Union Jack flags in a display of patriotic revelry to well-known anthems such as Rule Britannia, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory.
But at this year’s event, which takes place on Saturday, volunteers will hand out 5,000 EU flags so concert-goers can “show UK solidarity with the EU”. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/last-night-of-the-proms-brexit-protest-eu-flags-bbc-albert-hall-crowdfunded-a7231546.html
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But that wasn't a trade deal. That was a political, trade and defence treaty which went way beyond the sort of thing that we are talking about here. Don't get me wrong I think Article 50 is absolutely the way to go. But that will sort out almost all of the non trade issues as part of the negotiations. Any further trade negotiations post Brexit will still be covered by QMV.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends if there is anything at all in the deal outside the competences of the EU then it requires unanimity. Which in practice means unanimity is required as comprehensive trade deals generally exceed the competences of the EU. See for a recent example the Dutch referendum on the trade deal with Ukraine. If the deal hadn't required unanimity, the Dutch would have been moot.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to work.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
The nice thing about Article 50 is that it only requires a QMV vote to ratify the agreement between the EU and the exiting country. (Which means that you effectively only need agreement from France, Germany, Spain and Italy.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.0 -
Michael Horowitz
French police detains a 16-year-old suspect who planned to carry out a shooting attack in #Paris
Spotting mental illness early0 -
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:
You might not think so but the Guardian and Independent were getting excited beforehand:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
' Pro-EU music lovers have been out in force since the early hours of Saturday at the Royal Albert Hall to hand out thousands of EU flags to concertgoers before the Last Night of the Proms. '
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/10/european-union-flags-handed-out-last-night-of-the-proms-brexit
' Campaigners are planning to fill the Royal Albert Hall with a sea of blue EU flags on the Last Night of the Proms as part of an anti-Brexit protest.
Audience members at the BBC concert traditionally wave Union Jack flags in a display of patriotic revelry to well-known anthems such as Rule Britannia, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory.
But at this year’s event, which takes place on Saturday, volunteers will hand out 5,000 EU flags so concert-goers can “show UK solidarity with the EU”. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/last-night-of-the-proms-brexit-protest-eu-flags-bbc-albert-hall-crowdfunded-a7231546.html
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That is probably true. However, given that May has declined to go for such an election I don't think Corbyn - or whoever - would be bound by his remarks if she changed her mind 12 or 18 months later! He could simply say 'she had her chance and decided not to take it'.kle4 said:
LoTo are a bit trapped in such situations I think. A new PM without an election means they have to demand a new election, if they don't say it someone will and they'll get asked don't they think they'll win then or some such.justin124 said:
Fair enough. Thanks for that - I was unaware!edmundintokyo said:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/77541/listen-jeremy-corbyn-calls-snap-general-electionjustin124 said:
I am not aware that Corbyn has said that - though an election was demanded by a member of his Shadow Cabinet.edmundintokyo said:
Corbyn has already called for an early general election. If May said she wanted one, would Labour really vote to keep her government in office?theakes said:Fort the umpteenth time, she has virtually no chance of an early election, to call for two votes of no confidence in herself would make her a laughing stock and lead to probable defeat, loss of majority anyway and her resignation, the 2010 Parliament Act rules okay.
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Thing is that there have always been EU flags there - and US, Canadian, Japanese and almost every other country under the sun. It is an International music festival and the flags were always encouraged to reflect that. I think the anti-Brexit crowd were deeply dumb to try and propose such a trick as it was meaningless against the background of the history of the Proms which have been both international and patriotic as long as I have been watching them.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:
You might not think so but the Guardian and Independent were getting excited beforehand:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
' Pro-EU music lovers have been out in force since the early hours of Saturday at the Royal Albert Hall to hand out thousands of EU flags to concertgoers before the Last Night of the Proms. '
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/10/european-union-flags-handed-out-last-night-of-the-proms-brexit
' Campaigners are planning to fill the Royal Albert Hall with a sea of blue EU flags on the Last Night of the Proms as part of an anti-Brexit protest.
Audience members at the BBC concert traditionally wave Union Jack flags in a display of patriotic revelry to well-known anthems such as Rule Britannia, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory.
But at this year’s event, which takes place on Saturday, volunteers will hand out 5,000 EU flags so concert-goers can “show UK solidarity with the EU”. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/last-night-of-the-proms-brexit-protest-eu-flags-bbc-albert-hall-crowdfunded-a7231546.html0 -
Mr. Gin, Phil Woolas. He and Thornberry are both skilled at vexing white people.0
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But if you were, you would make sure you were properly briefed before going on TV for a foreign affairs interview...DavidL said:I am always reluctant not (woops!) to laugh at Colonel Bucket but to be honest I thought the French Foreign Minister was still Fabius. Apparently this changed in March to someone called Ayrault. Just as well I am not shadow foreign secretary.
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Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.Casino_Royale said:
Under Article 50 the deal also requires the 'consent' of the European Parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to work.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
The nice thing about Article 50 is that it only requires a QMV vote to ratify the agreement between the EU and the exiting country. (Which means that you effectively only need agreement from France, Germany, Spain and Italy.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I'm unclear as to what this means, but I suspect as a starting point it would mean it'd need to carry a simple majority of MEPs.
One hopes this wouldn't be a major problem if it had carried with QMV in the European Council, but with Verhofstadht who knows.0 -
Yes, although since the complaint is that the PM has no mandate, that is equally true 18 months later so if it was a problem before it would be a problem then. Just a dialling down of the tone would achieve a similar aim perhaps - 'While the FTPA does not require an election to confirm a new PM, in my party we believe in seeking the views of the people and and I would welcome the opportunity to do so now'.justin124 said:
That is probably true. However, given that May has declined to go for such an election I don't think Corbyn - or whoever - would be bound by his remarks if she changed her mind 12 or 18 months later! He could simply say 'she had her chance and decided not to take it'.kle4 said:
LoTo are a bit trapped in such situations I think. A new PM without an election means they have to demand a new election, if they don't say it someone will and they'll get asked don't they think they'll win then or some such.justin124 said:
Fair enough. Thanks for that - I was unaware!edmundintokyo said:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/77541/listen-jeremy-corbyn-calls-snap-general-electionjustin124 said:
I am not aware that Corbyn has said that - though an election was demanded by a member of his Shadow Cabinet.edmundintokyo said:
Corbyn has already called for an early general election. If May said she wanted one, would Labour really vote to keep her government in office?theakes said:Fort the umpteenth time, she has virtually no chance of an early election, to call for two votes of no confidence in herself would make her a laughing stock and lead to probable defeat, loss of majority anyway and her resignation, the 2010 Parliament Act rules okay.
It's basically the same as the demand without tying it to some notion of mandate that does not apply, it is not quite as strong, so when someone points out Labour have done the same thing, or you want to do so later, it is easier to roll back from.0 -
0
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The BBC *hates* the Last Night of the Proms. They've been trying to scrap the tub-thumbing patriotic anthems for decades.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thing is that there have always been EU flags there - and US, Canadian, Japanese and almost every other country under the sun. It is an International music festival and the flags were always encouraged to reflect that. I think the anti-Brexit crowd were deeply dumb to try and propose such a trick as it was meaningless against the background of the history of the Proms which have been both international and patriotic as long as I have been watching them.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
Thankfully, last night's show was rather good. Particularly Rule Britannia, which brought the house down, and a proper conductor's speech which was about the music rather than left-wing identity politics.
If some sore losers want to impotently wave a few blue-and-yellow flags in the crowd, and look like real tossers in so doing, then let them.
They lost. We won.0 -
I thought Woolas' strategy was all about getting white support?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Gin, Phil Woolas. He and Thornberry are both skilled at vexing white people.
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Mr. kle4, by making them angry, no?
Mr. Gin, I don't know.0 -
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alan-johnson-reveals-very-nearly-8812242
"Alan Johnson very nearly had the job title Secretary of State for PENIS, he has revealed.
And it had nothing to do with the honourable member's surname.
The former Labour Home Secretary recalls a phone call from then-Prime Minister Tony Blair in 2005, during his days at the Department of Trade and Industry.
A Civil Servant then informed him the new name would be the Department of Productivity, Energy, Industry and Science.
As he wrote down the initials, Mr Johnson realised with horror that his team had been given a phallic acronym.0 -
The BBC hates it so much it funds the whole thing, runs it on primetime TV on a Saturday night, organises events around it across the UK and delays Match of the Day util it ends.Casino_Royale said:
The BBC *hates* the Last Night of the Proms. They've been trying to scrap the tub-thumbing patriotic anthems for decades.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thing is that there have always been EU flags there - and US, Canadian, Japanese and almost every other country under the sun. It is an International music festival and the flags were always encouraged to reflect that. I think the anti-Brexit crowd were deeply dumb to try and propose such a trick as it was meaningless against the background of the history of the Proms which have been both international and patriotic as long as I have been watching them.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
Thankfully, last night's show was rather good. Particularly Rule Britannia, which brought the house down, and a proper conductor's speech which was about the music rather than left-wing identity politics.
If some sore losers want to impotently wave a few blue-and-yellow flags in the crowd, and look like real tossers in so doing, then let them.
They lost. We won.
0 -
It was 60 people! Who raised less than £20 each!!Richard_Tyndall said:
Thing is that there have always been EU flags there - and US, Canadian, Japanese and almost every other country under the sun. It is an International music festival and the flags were always encouraged to reflect that. I think the anti-Brexit crowd were deeply dumb to try and propose such a trick as it was meaningless against the background of the history of the Proms which have been both international and patriotic as long as I have been watching them.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:
You might not think so but the Guardian and Independent were getting excited beforehand:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Money raised, thousands of flags provided, bigged up in the media:kle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
' Anti-Brexit campaigners are planning to flood the Last Night Of The Proms with thousands of EU flags following a controversial fundraising campaign.
Some 60 backers have donated £1,175 on a Crowdfunder page to buy 5,000 blue EU flags which will be handed out at the annual event at the Royal Albert Hall on Saturday night. '
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/last-night-of-the-proms-anti-brexit-fundraising-campaign-launched-to-flood-event-with-5000-eu-flags_uk_57d26c64e4b0ac5a02ddda89
' Pro-EU music lovers have been out in force since the early hours of Saturday at the Royal Albert Hall to hand out thousands of EU flags to concertgoers before the Last Night of the Proms. '
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/10/european-union-flags-handed-out-last-night-of-the-proms-brexit
' Campaigners are planning to fill the Royal Albert Hall with a sea of blue EU flags on the Last Night of the Proms as part of an anti-Brexit protest.
AudienceLand of Hope and Glory.
But at this year’s event, which takes place on Saturday, volunteers will hand out 5,000 EU flags so concert-goers can “show UK solidarity with the EU”. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/last-night-of-the-proms-brexit-protest-eu-flags-bbc-albert-hall-crowdfunded-a7231546.html
0 -
Indeed - but there is a world if difference between making people angry at you and making then angry so they will vote for you. One is nefarious but can be effective, the other is just silly.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, by making them angry, no?
Details details.SouthamObserver said:
The BBC hates it so much it funds the whole thing, runs it on primetime TV on a Saturday night, organises events around it across the UK and delays Match of the Day util it ends.Casino_Royale said:
The BBC *hates* the Last Night of the Proms. They've been trying to scrap the tub-thumbing patriotic anthems for decades.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thing is that there have always been EU flags there - and US, Canadian, Japanese and almost every other country under the sun. It is an International music festival and the flags were always encouraged to reflect that. I think the anti-Brexit crowd were deeply dumb to try and propose such a trick as it was meaningless against the background of the history of the Proms which have been both international and patriotic as long as I have been watching them.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Mkle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
Thankfully, last night's show was rather good. Particularly Rule Britannia, which brought the house down, and a proper conductor's speech which was about the music rather than left-wing identity politics.
If some sore losers want to impotently wave a few blue-and-yellow flags in the crowd, and look like real tossers in so doing, then let them.
They lost. We won.
I'm sure I read last year how the establishment and the media wanted us to forget about things like WW1 (for reasons I don't even remember) despite a bigger deal being made of it in the last few years than I can ever recall.0 -
"That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."Casino_Royale said:
Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.Casino_Royale said:
Under Article 50 the deal also requires the 'consent' of the European Parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to work.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
The nice thing about Article 50 is that it only requires a QMV vote to ratify the agreement between the EU and the exiting country. (Which means that you effectively only need agreement from France, Germany, Spain and Italy.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I'm unclear as to what this means, but I suspect as a starting point it would mean it'd need to carry a simple majority of MEPs.
One hopes this wouldn't be a major problem if it had carried with QMV in the European Council, but with Verhofstadht who knows.
0 -
On topic.
I agree a bit with Meeks, except on the point of interventionism and dithering.
Sometimes a PM has to intervene to stop something that clearly is going wrong with the smallest of fuss.
Hinkley Point and Heathrow are two examples of bad decisions from the previous government that needed to be cancelled, in this case May did the job of kicking them into the long grass, so those projects will die without much drama.0 -
Stephen Pollard ✔ @stephenpollard
Best bit of the Thornberry rant is when she asks to talk about something else and he says 'ok, who's the president of South Korea?' #class0 -
If they had called it Productivity, Industry, Energy and Science then it would have be PIES - and they could have given it to Prescott...PlatoSaid said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alan-johnson-reveals-very-nearly-8812242
"Alan Johnson very nearly had the job title Secretary of State for PENIS, he has revealed.
And it had nothing to do with the honourable member's surname.
The former Labour Home Secretary recalls a phone call from then-Prime Minister Tony Blair in 2005, during his days at the Department of Trade and Industry.
A Civil Servant then informed him the new name would be the Department of Productivity, Energy, Industry and Science.
As he wrote down the initials, Mr Johnson realised with horror that his team had been given a phallic acronym.0 -
Well, whatever did happen to Mr Woolas he won't be turning up on the EU gravytrain for failed politicians anytime soon will he!Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Gin, I don't know.
0 -
And then makes it a 50/50 "What gender are they?"TCPoliticalBetting said:Stephen Pollard ✔ @stephenpollard
Best bit of the Thornberry rant is when she asks to talk about something else and he says 'ok, who's the president of South Korea?' #class
I
at that point. 0 -
Full meltdown...you is sexualist....TCPoliticalBetting said:Stephen Pollard ✔ @stephenpollard
Best bit of the Thornberry rant is when she asks to talk about something else and he says 'ok, who's the president of South Korea?' #class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neR_VHbxyLQ0 -
Mr. Gin, that train has been derailed. Huzzah!0
-
I did think that last night's Last Night was one of the best I have seen in many years. I am sure it had nothing to do with Brexit. It was just great renditions of the standards along with a superb tenor who not only sounded incredible but fully understood the light hearted nature of the evening. As you say the conductor was first class both in his leading of the orchestra and his speeches. I also thought the Welsh and Irish contributions were beautiful although the Scots one unfortunately left me cold - the same song sung by a small choir would have been far better.Casino_Royale said:
The BBC *hates* the Last Night of the Proms. They've been trying to scrap the tub-thumbing patriotic anthems for decades.
Thankfully, last night's show was rather good. Particularly Rule Britannia, which brought the house down, and a proper conductor's speech which was about the music rather than left-wing identity politics.
If some sore losers want to impotently wave a few blue-and-yellow flags in the crowd, and look like real tossers in so doing, then let them.
They lost. We won.
The mass singing by the promenaders was brilliant and the use of the organ in just the right amount also gave real power to the music.
A great way to start my Sacred Season.... which I will explain one Sunday night when traffic is slow.0 -
A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.0 -
Her and Abbott are the two lead women in the shadow cabinet, both are awful and have relied on getting to where they by being "right on".FrancisUrquhart said:
Full meltdown...you is sexualist....TCPoliticalBetting said:Stephen Pollard ✔ @stephenpollard
Best bit of the Thornberry rant is when she asks to talk about something else and he says 'ok, who's the president of South Korea?' #class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neR_VHbxyLQ
She loses her shit over a typical tripping up question its embarassing, will she be backing up Rudd or Greening when they get the same?0 -
Harry Cole
JC "Seumas Milne named as aide who wanted Hebrew wording removed from Labour Passover greeting" https://t.co/REDyMLxBGK0 -
My spidey senses detect an imminent PB falling out of love with Nick Cohen.
'Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?
The urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.'
http://tinyurl.com/hjt5sho0 -
If you wanted to be nice about Gove you'd call him eccentric. There are less kind words you might use. An intelligent eccentric - the most dangerous sort.another_richard said:
Out of curiosity which politicians do you not regard as deeply unimpressive or a mediocrity leading mediocrities ?SouthamObserver said:I find her deeply unimpressive. A mediocrity leading mediocrities.
0 -
Is Johnson doing well good for Trump or for Clinton?Speedy said:A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.0 -
With the H1B visas, aren't companies required to prove on a case by case basis that they have advertised for the position for x period of time and found no qualified US candidates?MaxPB said:Something that has been doing the rounds over the weekend, Dell are going to fire 2-3k US workers and have also between Dell and EMC applied for 5k worth of H1b visas. The roles that are going are lower tier help desk and tech/field support ones, an area where they can get H1b workers in.
If this is confirmed by Dell (and they will have to give a statement at some point) then it has the potential of giving Trump a massive helping hand for November as it looks very, very bad to fire domestic workers and replace them with cheaper foreign labour.
If Dell are proven to be trying to replace US workers with cheaper foreign workers through the H1B process, I think two things will happen:
1. Dell will receive some sort of legal rebuke (they will have lied in federal documents, a serious crime)
2. Dell will have a very hard time getting any H1B visas approved through the INS in the future0 -
I wonder why they threw him under the bus. Perhaps the stories of the useless Milne's contract not being renewed and Paul Mason coming in is true?PlatoSaid said:Harry Cole
JC "Seumas Milne named as aide who wanted Hebrew wording removed from Labour Passover greeting" https://t.co/REDyMLxBGK0 -
If they had renamed it : Energy Industry Productivity and Intelligence we could have abbreviated the acronym to "-1"oxfordsimon said:
If they had called it Productivity, Industry, Energy and Science then it would have be PIES - and they could have given it to Prescott...PlatoSaid said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alan-johnson-reveals-very-nearly-8812242
"Alan Johnson very nearly had the job title Secretary of State for PENIS, he has revealed.
And it had nothing to do with the honourable member's surname.
The former Labour Home Secretary recalls a phone call from then-Prime Minister Tony Blair in 2005, during his days at the Department of Trade and Industry.
A Civil Servant then informed him the new name would be the Department of Productivity, Energy, Industry and Science.
As he wrote down the initials, Mr Johnson realised with horror that his team had been given a phallic acronym.0 -
Thornberry row now featuring big time on Sky News and you can bet they will lead with it all day and night. You just have to despair at the thought of labour's top two women being Thornberry and Abbott. Bring back Hattie.0
-
OK, could that also not be a vote by the European Parliament to grant consent to negotiating an agreement, following which the European Council QMVs on it?edmundintokyo said:
"That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."Casino_Royale said:
Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.Casino_Royale said:
Under Article 50 the deal also requires the 'consent' of the European Parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to work.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
The nice thing about Article 50 is that it only requires a QMV vote to ratify the agreement between the EU and the exiting country. (Which means that you effectively only need agreement from France, Germany, Spain and Italy.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I'm unclear as to what this means, but I suspect as a starting point it would mean it'd need to carry a simple majority of MEPs.
One hopes this wouldn't be a major problem if it had carried with QMV in the European Council, but with Verhofstadht who knows.
On for the lawyers to argue over, perhaps.0 -
Given how many Mason has blocked on Twitter, including moi - he's going to be talking only to the faithful tooFrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder why they threw him under the bus. Perhaps the stories of the useless Milne's contract not being renewed and Paul Mason coming in is true?PlatoSaid said:Harry Cole
JC "Seumas Milne named as aide who wanted Hebrew wording removed from Labour Passover greeting" https://t.co/REDyMLxBGK0 -
Can't we just say that at the moment it's pretty close in vote share BUT that Clinton has far more winning combinations of swing-state results than Trump due to her holding the North East and California so comfortably?PlatoSaid said:Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 400 -
Don't forget Ms. Eagles!Big_G_NorthWales said:Thornberry row now featuring big time on Sky News and you can bet they will lead with it all day and night. You just have to despair at the thought of labour's top two women being Thornberry and Abbott. Bring back Hattie.
0 -
Close to a wash, but marginally good for Trump. Although, I am even a little uncertain of that. I think a lot of Bernie and non-Hillary dems are willing to give their votes to Stein unless it seems to close. And I think some anyone-but-Trump GOP are willing to give their votes to Johnson, unless it is too close, in which case they will vote Hillary. My wife falls in this latter category.weejonnie said:
Is Johnson doing well good for Trump or for Clinton?Speedy said:A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.
Both main candidates are doing an excellent job at turning off a lot of their party's erstwhile supporters.0 -
The BBC are happy to stage and show the event, providing it is used to promote their values: internationalism, diversity and modernity.SouthamObserver said:
The BBC hates it so much it funds the whole thing, runs it on primetime TV on a Saturday night, organises events around it across the UK and delays Match of the Day util it ends.Casino_Royale said:
The BBC *hates* the Last Night of the Proms. They've been trying to scrap the tub-thumbing patriotic anthems for decades.Richard_Tyndall said:
Thing is that there have always been EU flags there - and US, Canadian, Japanese and almost every other country under the sun. It is an International music festival and the flags were always encouraged to reflect that. I think the anti-Brexit crowd were deeply dumb to try and propose such a trick as it was meaningless against the background of the history of the Proms which have been both international and patriotic as long as I have been watching them.TCPoliticalBetting said:
There were a few EU flags in the Hall on camera, it looked to be a ratio of more than 10 UK flags to every 1 EU. No EU flags noticed on camera at Hyde Park and Belfast.SouthamObserver said:
Well 60 out of 16 million seems small to me!another_richard said:SouthamObserver said:
Not sure 60 backers raising less than £20 is much of a story.another_richard said:
Mkle4 said:
Was that a real plan, or somebody online suggesting it?another_richard said:I notice that the Remoaners plan to flood Last Night of the Proms with thousands of EU flags was a resounding failure.
Thankfully, last night's show was rather good. Particularly Rule Britannia, which brought the house down, and a proper conductor's speech which was about the music rather than left-wing identity politics.
If some sore losers want to impotently wave a few blue-and-yellow flags in the crowd, and look like real tossers in so doing, then let them.
They lost. We won.
It's its patriotic, jingoistic Britishness they despise.
Anyway, you absolutely know this, but just feel a reflexive need to defend the BBC from attacks from the Right, so let's move on.0 -
Emily Thornberry - oh dear oh dear oh dear.
The gift that keeps on giving.0 -
It could be but that would be exceedingly weird. Firstly if you meant you needed them to consent to conducting the negotiation rather than concluding it then why wouldn't you say so, and secondly, why would you give them the option of saying no, you can't negotiate an agreement, and what would happen if they used it?Casino_Royale said:
OK, could that also not be a vote by the European Parliament to grant consent to negotiating an agreement, following which the European Council QMVs on it?edmundintokyo said:
"That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."Casino_Royale said:
Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.
On for the lawyers to argue over, perhaps.
No need for lawyers here, it's obvious what it means.0 -
i.e. Fast Track for the EU. I think, given the power plays between the EU institutions, this is highly unlikely politically. I would also think that the travaux from the treaty's negotiations would show that Fast Track was not the intent.Casino_Royale said:
OK, could that also not be a vote by the European Parliament to grant consent to negotiating an agreement, following which the European Council QMVs on it?
On for the lawyers to argue over, perhaps.0 -
That's surprising because you're normally so impressed and convinced by Labour politiciansPlatoSaid said:
Mrs Bucket was hilariously bad - I had the TV on quietly whilst reading the papers. Caught my attention the moment she kicked off. I was glued. Everything about her tone is awful - that whole Don't You Know Who I Am manner when she doesn't know who anyone is...oxfordsimon said:
Yes - but she was going on to do a major interview with a big broadcaster. She should have been on top of the key issues. She wasn't and played the victim card. Pathetic.tlg86 said:
To be fair, she has had a number of different briefs in the past year!oxfordsimon said:
Being Foreign Secretary is about building and maintaining good working relationships with your international colleagues. That involves knowing who they are!Charles said:
It's a silly game of gotcha.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Spyn, outrageous to expect the Shadow Foreign Secretary to know who the French Foreign Secretary is, They'll be expecting her to be able to point to France on a map next.
[I'm assuming she's shadow foreign secretary. Can't remember, to be honest. But then, it's not my job].
Her views on policy matter (to an extent). where she knows who the vice president if tajikistan is doesn't. In a situation where she needed to know (assuming she was in power) she would be briefed on the facts.
She should be engaged in conversations with her political friends in France - but she clearly isn't.
Yes, it might feel like a silly game to some - but to me it is about being fully up to speed with your brief. Knowing who they key players are - even when you are in opposition.
She clearly doesn't. She has been over-promoted and is clearly not up to the task.0 -
I think we can go one further and say that most of us and most of the pollsters have no idea what the electorate will be.weejonnie said:
Can't we just say that at the moment it's pretty close in vote share BUT that Clinton has far more winning combinations of swing-state results than Trump due to her holding the North East and California so comfortably?PlatoSaid said:Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 400 -
Iraq War propagandist's bluster.Theuniondivvie said:My spidey senses detect an imminent PB falling out of love with Nick Cohen.
'Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?
The urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.'
http://tinyurl.com/hjt5sho0 -
"is it coz i'm a woman" :-)HaroldO said:
Her and Abbott are the two lead women in the shadow cabinet, both are awful and have relied on getting to where they by being "right on".FrancisUrquhart said:
Full meltdown...you is sexualist....TCPoliticalBetting said:Stephen Pollard ✔ @stephenpollard
Best bit of the Thornberry rant is when she asks to talk about something else and he says 'ok, who's the president of South Korea?' #class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neR_VHbxyLQ
She loses her shit over a typical tripping up question its embarassing, will she be backing up Rudd or Greening when they get the same?
Obviously precious Emily feels that being female means getting no difficult questions.
Depressing really.
And here I was under the impression Labour was all about equality (well, apart from leaders obviously).
0 -
It'll just feed the Corbynista conspiracy believers with more evidence that the media are united against Jezza. When Labour get slaughtered in the GE it will all be fault of media and so no need to change leadership or direction.Big_G_NorthWales said:Thornberry row now featuring big time on Sky News and you can bet they will lead with it all day and night. You just have to despair at the thought of labour's top two women being Thornberry and Abbott. Bring back Hattie.
0 -
Lord Scooter
Left pic: how Emily Thornberry possibly sees herself. Right Pic: What everyone else sees. https://t.co/UGiRaXwsxe0 -
Not aware of anyone falling in love with him.Theuniondivvie said:My spidey senses detect an imminent PB falling out of love with Nick Cohen.
'Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?
The urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.'
http://tinyurl.com/hjt5sho0 -
Mrs Bucket - THE example of who you know, not what you know....0
-
Hillary certainly did her best this week in that category. Other than blowing Obama up in his golf cart there seems little extra she could have done.MTimT said:
Close to a wash, but marginally good for Trump. Although, I am even a little uncertain of that. I think a lot of Bernie and non-Hillary dems are willing to give their votes to Stein unless it seems to close. And I think some anyone-but-Trump GOP are willing to give their votes to Johnson, unless it is too close, in which case they will vote Hillary. My wife falls in this latter category.weejonnie said:
Is Johnson doing well good for Trump or for Clinton?Speedy said:A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.
Both main candidates are doing an excellent job at turning off a lot of their party's erstwhile supporters.0 -
I don't think so. Bear in mind the drafting of the article was largely symbolic and never seriously thought through.edmundintokyo said:
It could be but that would be exceedingly weird. Firstly if you meant you needed them to consent to conducting the negotiation rather than concluding it then why wouldn't you say so, and secondly, why would you give them the option of saying no, you can't negotiate an agreement, and what would happen if they used it?Casino_Royale said:
OK, could that also not be a vote by the European Parliament to grant consent to negotiating an agreement, following which the European Council QMVs on it?edmundintokyo said:
"That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."Casino_Royale said:
Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.
On for the lawyers to argue over, perhaps.
No need for lawyers here, it's obvious what it means.
I think it's extremely unlikely that the European Parliament would get first dibs on approving the deal, over and above the European Council that actually runs the show.
I think a challenge, if that happens, is all-but-inevitable, or the European Council will find some way round it where they sew up the substantial negotiations first.0 -
Failed her eleven plus.FrancisUrquhart said:
Full meltdown...you is sexualist....TCPoliticalBetting said:Stephen Pollard ✔ @stephenpollard
Best bit of the Thornberry rant is when she asks to talk about something else and he says 'ok, who's the president of South Korea?' #class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neR_VHbxyLQ0 -
Quite - this is such a weird time, the normal rules aren't working.MTimT said:
I think we can go one further and say that most of us and most of the pollsters have no idea what the electorate will be.weejonnie said:
Can't we just say that at the moment it's pretty close in vote share BUT that Clinton has far more winning combinations of swing-state results than Trump due to her holding the North East and California so comfortably?PlatoSaid said:Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 400 -
Too late.GIN1138 said:
Don't forget Ms. Eagles!Big_G_NorthWales said:Thornberry row now featuring big time on Sky News and you can bet they will lead with it all day and night. You just have to despair at the thought of labour's top two women being Thornberry and Abbott. Bring back Hattie.
0 -
Clinton. Libertarians have traditionally come from republicans.weejonnie said:
Is Johnson doing well good for Trump or for Clinton?Speedy said:A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.0 -
If anyone needs to be bitten by a radioactive spider it's Owen Smith.Luckyguy1983 said:
Not aware of anyone falling in love with him.Theuniondivvie said:My spidey senses detect an imminent PB falling out of love with Nick Cohen.
'Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?
The urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.'
http://tinyurl.com/hjt5sho0 -
Celebrities are to be banished from Downing Street as Theresa May replaces cool Britannia-style receptions with parties with a purpose.
Firms that want to toast their success with a soiree at No 10 will have to show that bosses have read the new prime minister’s speeches and acted on her call for business to do more for the community.
In one of the first examples, leading designers have been told to bring apprentices along during London fashion week and “they will be the ones photographed on the front steps of No 10 with the PM”.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/celebs-shut-out-of-no-10-parties-ggwzdkj530 -
There is a lot of talk about Theresa May dithering over Brexit but I assume she will wait for the result of the challenge to her right to serve A50 without a vote, due in October, and on the assumption there is clarity on the issue she will the serve it in the first quarter of 20170
-
Trump. They'll revert to republican on Election Day.Alistair said:
Clinton. Libertarians have traditionally come from republicans.weejonnie said:
Is Johnson doing well good for Trump or for Clinton?Speedy said:A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.0 -
Oh my
Jeremy Corbyn MP
My thoughts are with those whose lives were shattered on 9/11/2001 - and in the wars and terror unleashed across the globe in its aftermath0 -
Good call - focus on opportunity for all not celebrities.CarlottaVance said:Celebrities are to be banished from Downing Street as Theresa May replaces cool Britannia-style receptions with parties with a purpose.
Firms that want to toast their success with a soiree at No 10 will have to show that bosses have read the new prime minister’s speeches and acted on her call for business to do more for the community.
In one of the first examples, leading designers have been told to bring apprentices along during London fashion week and “they will be the ones photographed on the front steps of No 10 with the PM”.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/celebs-shut-out-of-no-10-parties-ggwzdkj530 -
British right-wingers have this weird denial about the European Parliament. They didn't believe the leader of the largest party would get to be Commission President either. The paragraph I quoted is perfectly clear, you really have to twist your brain into a weird shape to find any ambiguity in it.Casino_Royale said:
I don't think so. Bear in mind the drafting of the article was largely symbolic and never seriously thought through.edmundintokyo said:
It could be but that would be exceedingly weird. Firstly if you meant you needed them to consent to conducting the negotiation rather than concluding it then why wouldn't you say so, and secondly, why would you give them the option of saying no, you can't negotiate an agreement, and what would happen if they used it?Casino_Royale said:
OK, could that also not be a vote by the European Parliament to grant consent to negotiating an agreement, following which the European Council QMVs on it?edmundintokyo said:
"That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."Casino_Royale said:
Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.
On for the lawyers to argue over, perhaps.
No need for lawyers here, it's obvious what it means.
I think it's extremely unlikely that the European Parliament would get first dibs on approving the deal, over and above the European Council that actually runs the show.
No, what'll happen is that the European Parliament will send their guy along to the negotiations, and he'll be in close contact with the main groups there, and they'll work out what they can all agree on. So it's unlikely to matter in what order they vote.Casino_Royale said:I think a challenge, if that happens, is all-but-inevitable, or the European Council will find some way round it where they sew up the substantial negotiations first.
0 -
Harry Cole
In 2003 he said 9/11 was "manipulated" to make it look like Bin Laden was responsible so US could invade Afghanistan https://t.co/Bov0ofmtSw0 -
Oh sure, a fair chunk of them will DNV or vote Trump on election day but the raw story is that, as it stands, Johnson siphons votes from Trump.MonikerDiCanio said:
Trump. They'll revert to republican on Election Day.Alistair said:
Clinton. Libertarians have traditionally come from republicans.weejonnie said:
Is Johnson doing well good for Trump or for Clinton?Speedy said:A new batch of 2016 polling.
ABC/Washington Post
Hillary 51
Trump 43
Hillary 46 -2
Trump 41 +1
Johnson 9 +2
Stein 2 nc
Caveat emptor, the poll has Obama at 58% approval ratings, far higher than normal, so take Hillary's lead with a pitch of salt.
NBC/Marist state polls
Georgia
Trump 46
Hillary 43
Arizona
Trump 42
Hillary 41
Nevada
Hillary 45
Trump 44
N.Hampshire
Hillary 42
Trump 41
Another caveat emptor, these are Marist polls, so they go straight to the bin for me.0 -
On that Labour woman on SkyNews whose name I can't remember...
I feel a little sorry for her. It's hard to know names, especially foreign names, of all the people you might meet or have met. And just because someone has a good/bad memory memory for names doesn't affect their ability to do the job.
The problem is the pointless defensive/attacking way she deals with it.
0 -
Last time I went to the Last Night of The Proms I took a Skull and Cross Bones Flag.0
-
Yes I say let's all stop posting about it until the first debate.weejonnie said:
Can't we just say that at the moment it's pretty close in vote share BUT that Clinton has far more winning combinations of swing-state results than Trump due to her holding the North East and California so comfortably?PlatoSaid said:Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 400 -
Afternoon. I see Mrs Bucket has been making an arse of herself again. Maybe one day she'll learn the basics of her brief before going on TV to talk about it!0
-
Those violent Sikhs http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/armed-police-leamington-temple-after-118713600
-
If you are Shadow Foreign Secretary and have no idea who the French Foreign Secretary is you simply cannot expect to be seen as in any way suitable for your role, but then we knew that with Thornberry anywayMarkHopkins said:
On that Labour woman on SkyNews whose name I can't remember...
I feel a little sorry for her. It's hard to know names, especially foreign names, of all the people you might meet or have met. And just because someone has a good/bad memory memory for names doesn't affect their ability to do the job.
The problem is the pointless defensive/attacking way she deals with it.0 -
I love Nick Cohen. Just finished his wonderful 'What's Left', which is both harrowing and insightful.Theuniondivvie said:My spidey senses detect an imminent PB falling out of love with Nick Cohen.
'Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?
The urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.'
http://tinyurl.com/hjt5sho0 -
It is though the protest may have something to do with a mixed race wedding.weejonnie said:0 -
Well quite - France isn't Laos or Cambodia or Micronesia. It's our nearest continental neighbour with serious foreign affairs issues.Big_G_NorthWales said:
If you are Shadow Foreign Secretary and have no idea who the French Foreign Secretary is you simply cannot expect to be seen as in any way suitable for your role, but then we knew that with Thornberry anywayMarkHopkins said:
On that Labour woman on SkyNews whose name I can't remember...
I feel a little sorry for her. It's hard to know names, especially foreign names, of all the people you might meet or have met. And just because someone has a good/bad memory memory for names doesn't affect their ability to do the job.
The problem is the pointless defensive/attacking way she deals with it.0 -
I bet those LOLs struggling to get to the voting booths on June 23rd weren't polled.PlatoSaid said:
Quite - this is such a weird time, the normal rules aren't working.MTimT said:
I think we can go one further and say that most of us and most of the pollsters have no idea what the electorate will be.weejonnie said:
Can't we just say that at the moment it's pretty close in vote share BUT that Clinton has far more winning combinations of swing-state results than Trump due to her holding the North East and California so comfortably?PlatoSaid said:Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 400 -
Does it go "way beyond" what we are talking about? Untangling Britain's involvement with the EU is going to be quite complicated and will almost certainly need to go beyond mere trade.Richard_Tyndall said:
But that wasn't a trade deal. That was a political, trade and defence treaty which went way beyond the sort of thing that we are talking about here. Don't get me wrong I think Article 50 is absolutely the way to go. But that will sort out almost all of the non trade issues as part of the negotiations. Any further trade negotiations post Brexit will still be covered by QMV.Philip_Thompson said:
It depends if there is anything at all in the deal outside the competences of the EU then it requires unanimity. Which in practice means unanimity is required as comprehensive trade deals generally exceed the competences of the EU. See for a recent example the Dutch referendum on the trade deal with Ukraine. If the deal hadn't required unanimity, the Dutch would have been moot.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to work.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
The nice thing about Article 50 is that it only requires a QMV vote to ratify the agreement between the EU and the exiting country. (Which means that you effectively only need agreement from France, Germany, Spain and Italy.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.0 -
He can be coruscating - I was at a NewStatesman event years back and he was totally smashed and angry. He downed a bottle of red whilst on the platform and got more and more heated.John_M said:
I love Nick Cohen. Just finished his wonderful 'What's Left', which is both harrowing and insightful.Theuniondivvie said:My spidey senses detect an imminent PB falling out of love with Nick Cohen.
'Why would the EU appease the deluded Brexiters?
The urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.'
http://tinyurl.com/hjt5sho
I can't recall what annoyed him so much - I was wincing too much.0 -
South Korea really not happy, after earthquake in the North the other day was thought to be another nuclear test.
URL says it all!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/seoul-threatens-to-reduce-pyongyang-to-ashes/0 -
When I look at the audiences of Trump events - trailer park/down at heel clapboard houses springs to mind.weejonnie said:
I bet those LOLs struggling to get to the voting booths on June 23rd weren't polled.PlatoSaid said:
Quite - this is such a weird time, the normal rules aren't working.MTimT said:
I think we can go one further and say that most of us and most of the pollsters have no idea what the electorate will be.weejonnie said:
Can't we just say that at the moment it's pretty close in vote share BUT that Clinton has far more winning combinations of swing-state results than Trump due to her holding the North East and California so comfortably?PlatoSaid said:Jake Tapper
New NBC/WSJ/Marist numbers
likely voters
AZ: Trump 42, Clinton 41
GA: Trump 46, Clinton 43
NV: Clinton 45, Trump 44
NH: Clinton 42, Trump 41
@jaketapper
Among registered voters:
AZ: HRC 41, Trump 40
GA: Trump 44, HRC 44
NV: HRC 46, Trump 41
NH: HRC 40, Trump 40
Very Clacton in terms of demographic.0 -
0
-
By using " consent " the drafters were consciously echoing the language used about the Senate in the US constitution. They'll take their role in this seriously and the treaty language says they'll have to be taken seriously.Casino_Royale said:
OK, could that also not be a vote by the European Parliament to grant consent to negotiating an agreement, following which the European Council QMVs on it?edmundintokyo said:
"That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament."Casino_Royale said:
Really? How have you deduced that?edmundintokyo said:
The treaty reads like they vote first, then the member states do the QMV vote.Casino_Royale said:
Under Article 50 the deal also requires the 'consent' of the European Parliament.Richard_Tyndall said:
I was under the impression that EU trade deals are by QMV not unanimity.rcs1000 said:
If we invoke Article 50 now, we only really get 18 (maybe more like 16) months of negotiation, because of the the number of EU elections in 2017. For anything not completely off the shelf, that's not really going to taly.) If we leave fully and then go back to try and negotiate something new, then it requires unanimity.GIN1138 said:
I assume Rudd's intervention relates to this?taffys said:''What's Boris said to get Rudd all riled up? He's not been trying to take her home in his car again has he?''
Boris is only doing what all politicians do when leaders fail to lead.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/11/boris-johnson-backs-brexit-pressure-campaign-change-britain
I see Whittingdale wants A50 triggered soon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/10/theresa-may-should-invoke-article-50-within-weeks-says-john-whit/
Clearly things are afoot in the Tory party this morning to get Theresa moving...
For that reason, it is much, much better that we get something agreed in the two year window. Beginning the process with Francois Hollande in power, only for him to depart and be replaced by someone completely different (as is almost inevitable) seems like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I'm unclear as to what this means, but I suspect as a starting point it would mean it'd need to carry a simple majority of MEPs.
One hopes this wouldn't be a major problem if it had carried with QMV in the European Council, but with Verhofstadht who knows.
On for the lawyers to argue over, perhaps.0 -
Don't even get The Colonel started on the president of South Korea.Sandpit said:South Korea really not happy, after earthquake in the North the other day was thought to be another nuclear test.
URL says it all!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/11/seoul-threatens-to-reduce-pyongyang-to-ashes/0
