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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A couple of general election betting markets
Ladbrokes have a market up on if the Tory or Labour share of the vote will rise or fall at the next general election. On the Tory front it is no bet for me simply because whilst the Tory party is doing well at the moment the Brexit negotiations do have the potential to tear asunder the Tory Party like the Corn Laws did a couple of hundred years ago, which could potentially boost UKIP.
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For Decrepit John L from previous thread
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/543830/Theresa-May-Jeremy-Corbyn-Prime-Minister-Questions-Commons-parliament-UK-politics-Labour0 -
Ed Miliband improved on Brown's performance in 2015, it is tricky to see Corbyn doing so again.0
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So the bookies anticipate the governing party gaining vote share and the opposition losing it - that can't happen often.0
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In abstract I'd take those prices on the Tory share rising and Labour's falling. The drivers of those dynamics are very powerful and aren't going away. But that's today and as Ladbrokes know full well the GE is likely nearly 4 years away with how Brexit turns out the biggest variable in post war British politics. So no bet from me at this stage.0
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1955, 1959, 1966, Nov 1974,, IIRC. Don’t think it’s happened lately.Essexit said:So the bookies anticipate the governing party gaining vote share and the opposition losing it - that can't happen often.
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It would be intetesting to see the market for turnout.0
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I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.0
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Based on discussions here to boot. So proudCasino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
. He did miss the opportunity to include Germany and the Euro though. 0 -
If Brexit is in full swing, it will be no time for a change of Govt, esp one run by CorbynYellowSubmarine said:In abstract I'd take those prices on the Tory share rising and Labour's falling. The drivers of those dynamics are very powerful and aren't going away. But that's today and as Ladbrokes know full well the GE is likely nearly 4 years away with how Brexit turns out the biggest variable in post war British politics. So no bet from me at this stage.
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Mr. Root, surely you're not suggesting his policy of uncontrolled migration would not appeal to voters?0
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Jezza's on telly with Owen Who tonight - BBC1 9pm!
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Betfair now have a market on all four party leaders exit dates. I dislike having to on it down to a quarter and only Labour has liquidity. https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/27494978/market?marketId=1.119649510 If I were betting I'd look at Corbyn's Mental Health and some of May's recent body language. Though of course both may change and are highly variable indicators.0
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Mr DCL was suggesting Mrs May is crap. of course its a well known phenomenon that you never play your best in cup matches(which is what PMQ's is like) against weak opposition, it takes good opposition to bring out the best.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Root, surely you're not suggesting his policy of uncontrolled migration would not appeal to voters?
JCWNBPM0 -
Mr. Gin, thanks. I'll try and remember to tune in to watch Chairman Corbyn crush the Blairite lickspittle traitor Smith.0
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Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
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Note that we are talking starting from a low base for labour and a two and a half decade high for the tories, add on another few years of likely turmoil and despite labour's current woes id personally expect both of the longer odds above to come off for a tory largest party hung parliament. So many many unknowns in the next few years though, any long term bet is a real stab in the dark.0
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I thought May was stiff, still nervous and she has no sense of comic timing. She'll relax into the role, I'm sure - Cameron is an incredibly hard act to follow. Fortunately, as you say, she'll have that time because JC will continue to under perform and miss his opportunities.SquareRoot said:
Mr DCL was suggesting Mrs May is crap. of course its a well known phenomenon that you never play your best in cup matches(which is what PMQ's is like) against weak opposition, it takes good opposition to bring out the best.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Root, surely you're not suggesting his policy of uncontrolled migration would not appeal to voters?
JCWNBPM
We're definitely watching the B-team after a sparkling period.0 -
When will this sodding election end?GIN1138 said:Jezza's on telly with Owen Who tonight - BBC1 9pm!
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It doesn't often happen that a party is undergoing an existential crisis in which those likely to carry the day either seem to be living in la-la land with regard to its future electoral prospects or even worse seem willing to ruin them in pursuit of a wider goal. We are living in interesting times. 4/6 is an excellent price.Essexit said:So the bookies anticipate the governing party gaining vote share and the opposition losing it - that can't happen often.
I've been aware of that bet for some time and have refrained from backing it only because I draw the line as a matter of principle in betting so directly against the party that I support.0 -
Mr. Borough, I think it's 24 September.
The next Labour leadership contest will be a few months after that.
Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.0 -
The Betfair leaders market. https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/27210582/market?marketId=1.125575779 No liquidity for the Tories. On the lay the favourite in Tory elections/Fat Pope Thin Pope principles should be looking for a male Brexiteer who we haven't heard of yet ? The message of the Three Brexiteers staged Downing St photo was fairly clear but can Boris be in a cabinet that botches Brexit AND win a challenge to deliver a suitably harder Brexit ? I'm not convinced.0
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My guess for vote share would be something in the region of 35/33 in the Tories' favour. You heard it hear first.0
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Four Labour defences in the local by-elections today. Normally you would have thought that these would be 4 solid holds...
Andrew Teale has his usual comprehensive write up at http://election-data.co.uk/by-election-previews-8-9-16
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Betfair also have Boris and First to Leave Cabinet specials. https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/27840635/market?marketId=1.125616507 This seems to me a race between David David's Ego and who ever has a Dominatrix/illegal immigrant nanny. I suppose Patel is another option in an attempt to regain USP in a female led pro Brexit environment.0
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Given the stars delay till next year on A50 and the political need to trigger before the Referendum anniversary I'd have thought this market offered value. https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/2707982/market?marketId=1.1253988890
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I'm not a vino but you can get some fantastic plonk for £15-20 a bottle.DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
I don't know why people pay more, to be honest, that price is at the peak of the quality/price laffer curve.0 -
Very interesting, especially the one in Barrow-in-Furness.Verulamius said:Four Labour defences in the local by-elections today. Normally you would have thought that these would be 4 solid holds...
Andrew Teale has his usual comprehensive write up at http://election-data.co.uk/by-election-previews-8-9-160 -
Waitrose website seems to be down for maintenance, but it's this stuffDecrepitJohnL said:Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.
Damilano Barolo DOCG0 -
@PolhomeEditor: Labour table Urgent Question on grammars. Lab MP: "It's urgent today, but not yesterday at PMQs. Too awkward for Corbyn, Abbot and Milne."0
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On topic, dunno. Only thing I'm willing to call is Tories most seats.
But it's too early for me to invest yet. I'll do so after HMG negotiating position is clear and A50 is invoked.0 -
What happened to Richard Tyndall?0
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Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.0 -
Yes, it's mostly bollocks anyway.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not a vino but you can get some fantastic plonk for £15-20 a bottle.DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
I don't know why people pay more, to be honest, that price is at the peak of the quality/price laffer curve.
Wine-tasting: it's junk science0 -
He's now a SPAD working for Juncker.not_on_fire said:What happened to Richard Tyndall?
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***CROSSOVER ALERT***
For the first time in the history of the public performance measure, long distance trains are now more punctual than those operating in London and the South East:
http://tinyurl.com/zf3ytmj0 -
Did you see Matt today?tlg86 said:***CROSSOVER ALERT***
For the first time in the history of the public performance measure, long distance trains are now more punctual than those operating in London and the South East:
http://tinyurl.com/zf3ytmj0 -
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.0 -
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
Thing is, Jezza is a laugh-free zone, plus has had a charisma bypass so Theresa, as was consensus on here yesterday, doesn't need to jazz up her performance. There can be two slightly dull protagonists facing each other making dull but worthy points at each other.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
It's not as though either leader needs to win over or give succour to their MPs for an amusingly diverse set of reasons.0 -
Some good news for the UK tech sector, Micro Focus is expanding and purchasing HP's enterprise division. Not sure where that leaves HP in the future, consumer products is a low margin game that can turn at any time.0
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All valid points and you're quite right for now.TOPPING said:
Thing is, Jezza is a laugh-free zone, plus has had a charisma bypass so Theresa, as was consensus on here yesterday, doesn't need to jazz up her performance. There can be two slightly dull protagonists facing each other making dull but worthy points at each other.
It's not as though either leader needs to win over or give succour to their MPs for an amusingly diverse set of reasons.
Nothing lasts forever and I wonder how long it will be before May starts facing more trouble from behind her than in front of her.
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What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
Have now - very funny.Scott_P said:
Did you see Matt today?tlg86 said:***CROSSOVER ALERT***
For the first time in the history of the public performance measure, long distance trains are now more punctual than those operating in London and the South East:
http://tinyurl.com/zf3ytmj0 -
We were chatting this morning about what May stands for: what her political beliefs are. Neither of us could say with any certainty. Brexit surely complicates matters but I'd expect her to be setting out her stall better by now.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
This is perhaps an artefact of the shortcutted leadership election, where there was no real chance for her own views to come out (compared to her opponent who was busy shooting herself in the feet).
Can anyone say what May stands for?
(Note: I'm not saying she's doing a bad job. I'm just unsure of where she wants to head).0 -
Very good documentary film on Netflix about sommeliers : Somm.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Yes, it's mostly bollocks anyway.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not a vino but you can get some fantastic plonk for £15-20 a bottle.DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
I don't know why people pay more, to be honest, that price is at the peak of the quality/price laffer curve.
Wine-tasting: it's junk science
Worth a watch.
[edit for link]
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2204371/0 -
@JosiasJessop The amount of money did sound "quite large" to me too, I mean even a tenth (£400 million) is still... 'a fair bit'.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the costs quite honestly, of course it will cost alot - but if it can be done well, and properly for £3.8 Bn rather than £4.1 say then that is a £0.3 Bn saving...0 -
If Corbyn stays in place the 4/6 is going to be value, however much one doesn't like odds-on bets four years out. Con + UKIP will probably be around 52%, the question is in what proportion?0
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On PMQs, I saw a short snippet and remember the last one.
With Corbyn's previous attempt going off on one wrt Boris wasn't a smart play methinks seeing as if it is turned into a personality/likeability contest on either side then he will be rightly shellacked.
Same with May heading off on a tangent about Corbyn's unpopularity in some poll or other.
They are both well suited to sticking to issues of substance and policy, there is plenty of material for questions and answers for the pair of them.0 -
I'd point you at one of her chief of staff's articles on Conservative Home (Nick Timothy). If I had to put it in a nutshell, I'd plump for 'blue collar Conservatism'. It makes sense to me, the current Tory base is not going to shift their votes with Labour tacking left and the Lib Dem position on the EU.JosiasJessop said:
We were chatting this morning about what May stands for: what her political beliefs are. Neither of us could say with any certainty. Brexit surely complicates matters but I'd expect her to be setting out her stall better by now.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
This is perhaps an artefact of the shortcutted leadership election, where there was no real chance for her own views to come out (compared to her opponent who was busy shooting herself in the feet).
Can anyone say what May stands for?
(Note: I'm not saying she's doing a bad job. I'm just unsure of where she wants to head).0 -
She has risen without trace, and during her 6 years at the Home Office done little of note, and particularly failed on controlling Non-EU immigration. She was noticeably invisible during Brexit, seemingly caring more for her own ambitions than the European Question.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
The only thing in her favour is that she knows to keep quiet rather than open her mouth and remove any doubt that she is a fool. This is a step up from most of the cabinet and the 3 Brexiteers in particular I suppose!0 -
Mr Topping,
"Thing is, Jezza is a laugh-free zone."
Don't forget that putting the world to rights is a serious business. Trotsky was never a bundle of laughs even before the ice pick incident. Nearly everyone else is a clown in their eyes and there's no guarantee that re-education always works.
When you're the font of all wisdom, coarsening matters with humour is beneath you.0 -
Definitely true. If she delivers a soft-Brexit Tombstone wing will make life hard, if she delivers hard-Brexit then the Soubry types will make life hard. It feels like a lose-lose for the PM at the moment. Delivering single market access while reducing immigration is not going to be easy.stodge said:
All valid points and you're quite right for now.TOPPING said:
Thing is, Jezza is a laugh-free zone, plus has had a charisma bypass so Theresa, as was consensus on here yesterday, doesn't need to jazz up her performance. There can be two slightly dull protagonists facing each other making dull but worthy points at each other.
It's not as though either leader needs to win over or give succour to their MPs for an amusingly diverse set of reasons.
Nothing lasts forever and I wonder how long it will be before May starts facing more trouble from behind her than in front of her.0 -
You can only look at the Scottish parliament building to see some potential problems with that. We could easily spend more on a new building that is even harder to maintain.TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
My dad was in building, and as a child he told me one golden rule about architects: never give free rein to 'their' vision. Control and subjugate them. If you do not, you will not pay for 'your' building: you will pay more to build what *they* want, their dreams.
The HOC are iconic, and particularly the exterior. A problem is that the choice of materials in Victorian times were non-ideal, and the stonework has been troublesome ever since - I think it's been reclad twice already. We need t avoid being in this position in another sixty years.0 -
Thanks, I'll do that (though I find ConservativeHome fairly rancid at times). I hope she'll give us some vision in her conference speech.John_M said:
I'd point you at one of her chief of staff's articles on Conservative Home (Nick Timothy). If I had to put it in a nutshell, I'd plump for 'blue collar Conservatism'. It makes sense to me, the current Tory base is not going to shift their votes with Labour tacking left and the Lib Dem position on the EU.JosiasJessop said:
We were chatting this morning about what May stands for: what her political beliefs are. Neither of us could say with any certainty. Brexit surely complicates matters but I'd expect her to be setting out her stall better by now.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
This is perhaps an artefact of the shortcutted leadership election, where there was no real chance for her own views to come out (compared to her opponent who was busy shooting herself in the feet).
Can anyone say what May stands for?
(Note: I'm not saying she's doing a bad job. I'm just unsure of where she wants to head).0 -
His work is done here.not_on_fire said:What happened to Richard Tyndall?
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I thought initially she was an interventionist in the style of Heseltine and that we would see a lot more Government as it were.JosiasJessop said:<
We were chatting this morning about what May stands for: what her political beliefs are. Neither of us could say with any certainty. Brexit surely complicates matters but I'd expect her to be setting out her stall better by now.
This is perhaps an artefact of the shortcutted leadership election, where there was no real chance for her own views to come out (compared to her opponent who was busy shooting herself in the feet).
Can anyone say what May stands for?
(Note: I'm not saying she's doing a bad job. I'm just unsure of where she wants to head).
Like you, I'm less certain now. The fact is in opposition she wasn't near the front line - her time as party Chairman was in the IDS era and frankly under Cameron she had fairly minor roles. Her elevation to Home Secretary in 2010 was probably thought by most as the pinnacle of her career.
She claims to be a "liberal conservative" (whatever that means) but so did Cameron famously. I think she's in the Heath/Heseltine mould rather than a Thatcherite.
She's a blank slate and everyone is projecting their aspirations (especially in relation to Brexit) onto her. She wasn't afraid as Party Chairman to tell the Conservatives things they didn't want to hear - she may well have to deal with hostility from the media and her own backbenchers and as major showed, there's no point being "nice" if the other guy is a "bastard".
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Hmm Scots building was what, £400m - I'm with @Pulpstar. What's the breakdown although I suppose, just like a credit card bill, it will all legitimately add up to the big figure.JosiasJessop said:
You can only look at the Scottish parliament building to see some potential problems with that. We could easily spend more on a new building that is even harder to maintain.TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, cable that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
My dad was in building, and as a child he told me one golden rule about architects: never give free rein to 'their' vision. Control and subjugate them. If you do not, you will not pay for 'your' building: you will pay more to build what *they* want, their dreams.
The HOC are iconic, and particularly the exterior. A problem is that the choice of materials in Victorian times were non-ideal, and the stonework has been troublesome ever since - I think it's been reclad twice already. We need to avoid being in this position in another sixty years.
"We need to avoid being in this position in another sixty years"
Won't be a huge issue for me at that point.
0 -
It is a vast amount of money. Compare it to a cathedral, which seem to do works (albeit in less complex buildings internally) for a fraction.Pulpstar said:@JosiasJessop The amount of money did sound "quite large" to me too, I mean even a tenth (£400 million) is still... 'a fair bit'.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the costs quite honestly, of course it will cost alot - but if it can be done well, and properly for £3.8 Bn rather than £4.1 say then that is a £0.3 Bn saving...
Yes, we do need to see a breakdown of costs and sanely analyse them.
One other problems: I can see such a large workplan taking up most of the country's experts in various fields.0 -
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
FWIW, I think May is evasive and shifty for a fairly long time right up to the point where she makes up her mind, at which point she becomes very robust.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
In this she is similar to Thatcher, though I doubt with quite the same level of intelligence and certainly not the same level of cut-through communication skill.0 -
MPs should certainly move out of the parliament if/when the works are done. To not do so really IS a waste of at least another 3 billion and probably more.0
-
It's a World Heritage site. If you like razing that sort of thing to the ground perhaps there's a role for you in Syria?TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
York Minster appears to have moved to the perpetual rollings repairs model. I wonder if that wouldn't be a better model for the HoP.JosiasJessop said:
It is a vast amount of money. Compare it to a cathedral, which seem to do works (albeit in less complex buildings internally) for a fraction.Pulpstar said:@JosiasJessop The amount of money did sound "quite large" to me too, I mean even a tenth (£400 million) is still... 'a fair bit'.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the costs quite honestly, of course it will cost alot - but if it can be done well, and properly for £3.8 Bn rather than £4.1 say then that is a £0.3 Bn saving...
Yes, we do need to see a breakdown of costs and sanely analyse them.
One other problems: I can see such a large workplan taking up most of the country's experts in various fields.
Of course you would have to occasionally dump the HoC and HoL somewhere when it came time for their chambers to be renewed but that could be worked around. Perhaps a tent on parliament square green?0 -
ah well that rules out the razing option. Still leaves the question open as to whether the new parliament building should be a refit or a new shiny, happy building somewhere else.Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site. If you like razing that sort of thing to the ground perhaps there's a role for you in Syria?TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
I like the look of the 11/10 on the Conservatives' vote share falling at the next election. These odds are being set in the middle of a new Prime Minister's honeymoon and she has an exiguous majority, an already-split Cabinet and an intray full of horrors. Things might look very different indeed in 6 months' time.0
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Repair the Palace of Westminster, move the MPs to a new functional purpose-built chamber in somewhere like Middlesbrough.0
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Only until we Brexit from UNESCO.Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site.TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
0 -
The old site would make an excellent central site for a mega-mosque built on the rubble.Ishmael_X said:
Only until we Brexit from UNESCO.Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site.TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
LOLIshmael_X said:
Only until we Brexit from UNESCO.Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site.TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
Are there any buildings large enough to accomodate 650 MPs, Lords and staff near Middlesbrough ?AlastairMeeks said:Repair the Palace of Westminster, move the MPs to a new functional purpose-built chamber in somewhere like Middlesbrough.
Edit: Ah a new build.0 -
What are your thoughts on the Liverpool Waters project ?Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site. If you like razing that sort of thing to the ground perhaps there's a role for you in Syria?TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.0 -
SeanT's theory was that £50 was the top price worth paying. My own suspicion, as a non-drinker, is that the first bottle (while people are still sober) is most important and the third or fourth may as well be $2 plonk. Looking at supermarkets, £20 is the most common "top" price which I guess might equate to £50 in a restaurant.TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.0 -
I can't believe people are talking about cost savings on a public project, if anything the £4bn will become £7bn with a 3 year delay.0
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Note to all grammar pedants.
qz.com draws our attention to what foreign students are taught about the order in which adjectives should be used to describe nouns in the English language.
Adjectives have to be in order of:
opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose then the noun.
For example a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife.
Only by bringing back more grammar schools will such order be maintained.
Source: http://qz.com/#773738/how-non-english-speakers-are-taught-this-crazy-english-grammar-rule-you-know-but-youve-never-heard-of/?utm_source=YPH_link_1
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Daily Express article incoming!foxinsoxuk said:
The old site would make an excellent central site for a mega-mosque built on the rubble.Ishmael_X said:
Only until we Brexit from UNESCO.Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site.TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
"Scandal as plan to blow up the Houses of Parliament are discovered to make way for Mega Mosque"0 -
Hence the need for the Boundary Commission to revise constituencies so as to reduce MP numbers.Pulpstar said:
Are there any buildings large enough to accomodate 650 MPs, Lords and staff near Middlesbrough ?AlastairMeeks said:Repair the Palace of Westminster, move the MPs to a new functional purpose-built chamber in somewhere like Middlesbrough.
Edit: Ah a new build.
0 -
I've never heard of it...Pulpstar said:
What are your thoughts on the Liverpool Waters project ?Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site. If you like razing that sort of thing to the ground perhaps there's a role for you in Syria?TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
Edit: Liverpool? I mean
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It endangers Liverpool Maritime Mercantile City which is a UNESCO world heritage siteCharles said:
I've never heard of it...Pulpstar said:
What are your thoughts on the Liverpool Waters project ?Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site. If you like razing that sort of thing to the ground perhaps there's a role for you in Syria?TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
But yet it is going ahead...0 -
Problem is you have it all nicely sorted, say for your daughter's wedding in Cana, and then some itinerant preacher comes along and buggers it all upDecrepitJohnL said:
SeanT's theory was that £50 was the top price worth paying. My own suspicion, as a non-drinker, is that the first bottle (while people are still sober) is most important and the third or fourth may as well be $2 plonk. Looking at supermarkets, £20 is the most common "top" price which I guess might equate to £50 in a restaurant.TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.0 -
It is a wonder that any DEx readers survive. Apoplexy must carry off hundreds every day.MaxPB said:
Daily Express article incoming!foxinsoxuk said:
The old site would make an excellent central site for a mega-mosque built on the rubble.Ishmael_X said:
Only until we Brexit from UNESCO.Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site.TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
"Scandal as plan to blow up the Houses of Parliament are discovered to make way for Mega Mosque"0 -
I didn't know there was a rule but likely would have written it like that as it seems the most natural.David_Evershed said:Note to all grammar pedants.
qz.com draws our attention to what foreign students are taught about the order in which adjectives should be used to describe nouns in the English language.
Adjectives have to be in order of:
opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose then the noun.
For example a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife.
Only by bringing back more grammar schools will such order be maintained.
Source: http://qz.com/#773738/how-non-english-speakers-are-taught-this-crazy-english-grammar-rule-you-know-but-youve-never-heard-of/?utm_source=YPH_link_10 -
£15-£20 (in a shop rather than a restaurant) will get you some very nice wine indeed. And yes, after people have drunk one bottle each, what's served may as well be £2 a bottle.DecrepitJohnL said:
SeanT's theory was that £50 was the top price worth paying. My own suspicion, as a non-drinker, is that the first bottle (while people are still sober) is most important and the third or fourth may as well be $2 plonk. Looking at supermarkets, £20 is the most common "top" price which I guess might equate to £50 in a restaurant.TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.0 -
Michael Keating, Professor of Politics at the University of Aberdeen, told MPs that if Scotland were in the EU and the rest of the UK were not, then that would break up the single British market between them, creating a hard border; an economic barrier to free movement of goods, people and services between the two countries.
Asked how Scotland would be able to stay within the UK single market - which was worth four times more to the Scottish economy than the European single market, - if it became independent, Prof Keating told the Commons Scottish Affairs committee: “They don’t.
“If it is a hard Brexit and the UK comes out of the European single market, then it makes it much more difficult for Scotland to become independent because you’d have that hard border with the UK market.” He then added: “Ironically enough, the closer the UK gets to the single market, then the less grievance Scotland maybe has but the more easy it is to become independent because at that point you could have access to both markets.”
http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14729086.Hard_Brexit_would_make_Scottish_independence_more_difficult__claims_academic
0 -
Still never heard of it! Generally listings are a pain - but iconic sites should be protected. Don't know if the LMMC is iconic or not - have never heard of itPulpstar said:
It endangers Liverpool Maritime Mercantile City which is a UNESCO world heritage siteCharles said:
I've never heard of it...Pulpstar said:
What are your thoughts on the Liverpool Waters project ?Charles said:
It's a World Heritage site. If you like razing that sort of thing to the ground perhaps there's a role for you in Syria?TOPPING said:
The point was about whether we should have a refit of the old building or something modern instead.Casino_Royale said:
Is money all you care about?TOPPING said:
What would it cost, whether there is the political or public will or not, of razing it to the ground (selling off artifacts, fittings, bits of wall, the Edstone when they find it deep in the cellars), and giving the brief for something modern to Fosters? Or whoever?JosiasJessop said:
It's as easy as anything to spend money. To spend it wisely ...TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
The problem with the HoC is that its structure and fittings are massively ornate, and can often only be worked on by specialists in paintings, fabrics, plastering, stonework etc. These are only available at a premium.
As an aside, I've often been around churches, and particularly cathedrals, and seen stonework being replaced. Since we have 3D scanning now, would it be possible to automate the chiseling and creation of ornate stone blockwork? Scan in the old piece, 'fix' it in a 3D package, and allow the machine/robot to do the work.
It's almost certainly more complex than that, especially in blocks that are not freestone and have strata and flaws that have to be worked around. But it would surely save money.
But yet it is going ahead...0 -
How many other Home Secretaries have spoken to the Police Federation as she did?Casino_Royale said:
FWIW, I think May is evasive and shifty for a fairly long time right up to the point where she makes up her mind, at which point she becomes very robust.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
How many other Party Chairmen have spoken to the Conservative Party as she did?
I think we know how 'robust' she is capable of being.
You characterise her as 'evasive & shifty' before she makes up mind.
Perhaps she's not as skilled a dissembler as Cameron or Blair.
That's a bad thing?0 -
I was once shown an English textbook for Thai students, showing recommended intonations and cadences. The complete accuracy of something that none of us ever think about in a non-tonal language is uncanny.0
-
Did either of those speeches do any good?CarlottaVance said:
How many other Home Secretaries have spoken to the Police Federation as she did?Casino_Royale said:
FWIW, I think May is evasive and shifty for a fairly long time right up to the point where she makes up her mind, at which point she becomes very robust.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
How many other Party Chairmen have spoken to the Conservative Party as she did?
I think we know how 'robust' she is capable of being.
You characterise her as 'evasive & shifty' before she makes up mind.
Perhaps she's not as skilled a dissembler as Cameron or Blair.
That's a bad thing?
It will be interesting to see if she is as confrontational with the audience at the conference.0 -
Charles said:
Problem is you have it all nicely sorted, say for your daughter's wedding in Cana, and then some itinerant preacher comes along and buggers it all upDecrepitJohnL said:
SeanT's theory was that £50 was the top price worth paying. My own suspicion, as a non-drinker, is that the first bottle (while people are still sober) is most important and the third or fourth may as well be $2 plonk. Looking at supermarkets, £20 is the most common "top" price which I guess might equate to £50 in a restaurant.TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.
I did like Mrs CycleFree's interpretation of that event. As she put it the other day:
"Feck! Where's the Booze? Get some of that Evian over here and let's get this sorted"0 -
"Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse" John 2:10Sandpit said:
£15-£20 (in a shop rather than a restaurant) will get you some very nice wine indeed. And yes, after people have drunk one bottle each, what's served may as well be £2 a bottle.DecrepitJohnL said:
SeanT's theory was that £50 was the top price worth paying. My own suspicion, as a non-drinker, is that the first bottle (while people are still sober) is most important and the third or fourth may as well be $2 plonk. Looking at supermarkets, £20 is the most common "top" price which I guess might equate to £50 in a restaurant.TOPPING said:
Surely a bottle of fizz works best in those circumstances. A lone bottle of wine can sometimes be of little use (unless it's for a sangria in which case a £4.99 red from Aldi will do).DecrepitJohnL said:
Speaking of SeanT, can anyone remember the Italian plonk he was raving about recently? I need to "bring a bottle" but don't drink. I thought it was from Waitrose but I can't see anything over about £20 on the web site and iirc SeanT's wine was about double that.Casino_Royale said:I see our Sean has made it into this week's edition of the Spectator.
Also, could one of the builders or plasterers on here pls, succinctly, explain how you get to spend £4bn on a building.0 -
Hmm, I'm not sure it's really that complex a rule. Adjectives are typically listed in the order of most generic to most specific. In this example, the adjective "lovely" can by applied to almost anything and has a very vague meaning, but "whittling" can't be used for much except knives and has a very specific meaning. I'm pretty sure the same order would be used in German (except that "whittling knife" would be one word).Charles said:
I didn't know there was a rule but likely would have written it like that as it seems the most natural.David_Evershed said:Note to all grammar pedants.
qz.com draws our attention to what foreign students are taught about the order in which adjectives should be used to describe nouns in the English language.
Adjectives have to be in order of:
opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose then the noun.
For example a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife.
Only by bringing back more grammar schools will such order be maintained.
Source: http://qz.com/#773738/how-non-english-speakers-are-taught-this-crazy-english-grammar-rule-you-know-but-youve-never-heard-of/?utm_source=YPH_link_10 -
How about moving the HoC to an old army camp in the North of England? A few giant Nissan huts or even an aircraft hangar? Plenty of room, a stimulus to the local sheep farmers, and a new tourist destination.0
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ðə ˈfɪlɪŋ ɒv ə ˈvɛri diːp ˈflægən wɪð ə ˈkɒnstənt striːm ɒv bɪə saʊndz ðə ˈvaʊəlzAlastairMeeks said:I was once shown an English textbook for Thai students, showing recommended intonations and cadences. The complete accuracy of something that none of us ever think about in a non-tonal language is uncanny.
0 -
So we sold Autonomy when it was growing fast and a world leader, a foreign company buys it destroys its value and then a British company buys most of it back.MaxPB said:Some good news for the UK tech sector, Micro Focus is expanding and purchasing HP's enterprise division. Not sure where that leaves HP in the future, consumer products is a low margin game that can turn at any time.
Sounds about right..
......why are we selling ARM to the Japanese ffs are we mad the French would never allow a company like ARM to go to foreign hands ffs and this is to a country who just recently threatened us making one of the garuntees worthless. We're the dumbest people in the world, let's just sell Buckingham Palace while we're at it, market forces must be worshipped at all costs!
At least Ed Milliban made a fuss of AstraZeneca being sold to the predator Pfizer which has a history of closing down research centres, not a peep out of Corbyn about ARM. Useless.0 -
Oh my. The plot thickens.
"Roger Page, who was Lord King’s parliamentary aide from 1999, when he was ennobled, to his death from a heart attack in January 2013, said: “I don’t remember that name. It doesn’t ring a bell at all. I was Lord King’s adviser and [parliamentary] passholder at the House of Lords right up until his death... and that is the first I have known about [Mr Dragusin].”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/07/keith-vaz-the-charity-worker-and-the-mystery-of-their-trips-to-i/0 -
Both organisations changed in their wake - how much down to May 'telling it like it is' and how much due to work already underway, we'll never know. But for someone who's 'done nothing' - she's done something no other Home Secretary or Chairman has done before or since.foxinsoxuk said:
Did either of those speeches do any good?CarlottaVance said:
How many other Home Secretaries have spoken to the Police Federation as she did?Casino_Royale said:
FWIW, I think May is evasive and shifty for a fairly long time right up to the point where she makes up her mind, at which point she becomes very robust.stodge said:
I have to say I've found Theresa May woefully unimpressive so far and yesterday's third rate effort confirms how fortunate she is to have Corbyn opposite her. Blair would have eaten her alive and even Brown and Kinnock would have given her a run for her money.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. M, didn't watch, but if she's trying and failing on jokes she should try being a good Theresa May rather than a second rate David Cameron.
Yes, she can "grow into the role" but it's not as though she's never spoken at the Dispatch Box - she was Home Secretary for five years. As you say, it may be people don't want comedy but those PMs who have been LOTOs have had to learn the art of the quick riposte and the well-aimed jab (Cameron and Blair both did it well). As she has never been LOTO (though she may be one day you never know), it's a skill she's not had to master.
How many other Party Chairmen have spoken to the Conservative Party as she did?
I think we know how 'robust' she is capable of being.
You characterise her as 'evasive & shifty' before she makes up mind.
Perhaps she's not as skilled a dissembler as Cameron or Blair.
That's a bad thing?
It will be interesting to see if she is as confrontational with the audience at the conference.
The Leader's role is different from the Chairman's ('rally the troops' vs 'knock them into shape') - why would she want to be confrontational at conference?0 -
"We" are not selling ARM as "we" do not own it.nunu said:
So we sold Autonomy when it was growing fast and a world leader, a foreign company buys it destroys its value and then a British company buys most of it back.MaxPB said:Some good news for the UK tech sector, Micro Focus is expanding and purchasing HP's enterprise division. Not sure where that leaves HP in the future, consumer products is a low margin game that can turn at any time.
Sounds about right..
......why are we selling ARM to the Japanese ffs are we mad the French would never allow a company like ARM to go to foreign hands ffs and this is to a country who just recently threatened us making one of the garuntees worthless. We're the dumbest people in the world, let's just sell Buckingham Palace while we're at it, market forces must be worshipped at all costs!0
This discussion has been closed.