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Betting Post
F1: with literally two tips, here's my pre-race piece:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2016/09/italy-pre-race-2016.html0 -
I detested his habit of making someone's name an insult/controlling mechanism - it's very personal. He'd constantly say your name as if that in itself was something embarrassing - then do it again and again like annoying cops trying to get the upper hand in a confrontation.Danny565 said:
Yup. His interview technique (not answering questions directly, repeating the same phrases verbatim without any subtlety) drives Joe Public mad, in my experience.DecrepitJohnL said:Ed Balls. The key question is: do people like him? I've always classed him along with George Osborne, as politicians that people instinctively (and perhaps unfairly) dislike: a sort of anti-Boris, if you will. Strictly might prove me wrong but until it does, no bet.
As Danny said in Grease "that's my name, don't wear it out".0 -
Miss Plato, Balls is just a four letter word.
I've heard some anecdotes which confirm he's just an oaf when it comes to personal interactions [when the camera isn't there]. And that's without getting into absolutely bloody brilliant ideas.0 -
I have to say there is quite a powerful message in Trump's, "it can't get any worse" pitch to minority voters. Blacks and Hispanics living in poverty having voted Democrat all their lives and having seen their Democrat controlled states, legislatures and cities go into a state of despair must have had these thoughts before. In the darkest recesses of their minds people who have done the same thing for 30 years and seen no improvement in their living standards are now looking at Trump and agreeing with him. How can it get any worse, is what is going through their minds. Against a machine politician who represents the very worst of the establishment this attack line has a fair chance of success.
I'll use India as an example, the anti-Muslim nationalist BJP used exactly the same message among Muslim voters in India and won enough of them over. They obviously didn't win a majority of Muslim votes but they won more than expected with a simple message of, "it can't get any worse". To people in desperate situations, without jobs or relying on state handouts to live the "let's try something new" approach is quite powerful.
Leave also used this same approach to devastating effect, UKIP could do the same in the North and Wales. Any area or people who suffer from deprivation are much more open to the "it can't get any worse" approach. Whatever one thinks of Trump, he is a completely untested candidate and will bring a completely new approach to the presidency. These voters know what they get with Clinton, they are living through it at the moment.
If Trump wins the White House then it will be down to this pitch to voters who may not have ever considered voting Republican let alone for a character like Trump. Against Hillary it is a devastating attack. She has no answer to it.0 -
Glen Mitchell
I voted for Ed Miliband & I'd be the first to say he had many faults but none of his MPs ended up needing panic rooms or police protection.0 -
I read one of day in the life of articles years ago about him. Journalist followed him about and noted that he was extremely competitive. So much that he wouldn't let his little kid beat him at football.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, Balls is just a four letter word.
I've heard some anecdotes which confirm he's just an oaf when it comes to personal interactions [when the camera isn't there]. And that's without getting into absolutely bloody brilliant ideas.
I decided then he was an arse.0 -
Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.MaxPB said:I have to say there is quite a powerful message in Trump's, "it can't get any worse" pitch to minority voters. Blacks and Hispanics living in poverty having voted Democrat all their lives and having seen their Democrat controlled states, legislatures and cities go into a state of despair must have had these thoughts before. In the darkest recesses of their minds people who have done the same thing for 30 years and seen no improvement in their living standards are now looking at Trump and agreeing with him. How can it get any worse, is what is going through their minds. Against a machine politician who represents the very worst of the establishment this attack line has a fair chance of success.
I'll use India as an example, the anti-Muslim nationalist BJP used exactly the same message among Muslim voters in India and won enough of them over. They obviously didn't win a majority of Muslim votes but they won more than expected with a simple message of, "it can't get any worse". To people in desperate situations, without jobs or relying on state handouts to live the "let's try something new" approach is quite powerful.
Leave also used this same approach to devastating effect, UKIP could do the same in the North and Wales. Any area or people who suffer from deprivation are much more open to the "it can't get any worse" approach. Whatever one thinks of Trump, he is a completely untested candidate and will bring a completely new approach to the presidency. These voters know what they get with Clinton, they are living through it at the moment.
If Trump wins the White House then it will be down to this pitch to voters who may not have ever considered voting Republican let alone for a character like Trump. Against Hillary it is a devastating attack. She has no answer to it.0 -
Good point.PlatoSaid said:Glen Mitchell
I voted for Ed Miliband & I'd be the first to say he had many faults but none of his MPs ended up needing panic rooms or police protection.0 -
On topic, yes he can but it requires:
1. Balls still to have the passion for politics. Ultimately that's what undid Portillo.
2. Corbyn to serve through to a moment when Balls could replace him.
3. Labour not to split so badly that Balls opts for the alternative.
4. Labour to be in a state of mind to elect someone like Balls (because if they are willing to consider someone like him, then there's no-one better than him), and
5. For him to be available.
Some of those conditions overlap and a post-2020GE scenario could well fit the bill if Corbyn holds on and then crashes badly, with Balls returning somewhere that even Corbyn can't lose. In those circumstances, would the Corbynites remain in sufficient number to back the next left? Maybe but maybe not. The swing, give-him-a-chance, members would surely have overwhelmingly come back to sense. 'Sense' can mean more than one thing. Balls is a little long in the political tooth. There may be a case to move to a new generation rather than back to an older one. All the same, if Balls can Boris it while out of office, he will have an unmatchable quality in a leadership election.
Off topic, many thanks for the kind words this morning. I'm heading back to the hospital now so can't respond to comments. Parenthood is good. Have fun, all.0 -
''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.0 -
Kinder gentler politics....PlatoSaid said:Glen Mitchell
I voted for Ed Miliband & I'd be the first to say he had many faults but none of his MPs ended up needing panic rooms or police protection.0 -
This is a good article. Newport is about 20 miles from me. It's worth noting that the Thatcher effect has faded:MaxPB said:I have to say there is quite a powerful message in Trump's, "it can't get any worse" pitch to minority voters. Blacks and Hispanics living in poverty having voted Democrat all their lives and having seen their Democrat controlled states, legislatures and cities go into a state of despair must have had these thoughts before. In the darkest recesses of their minds people who have done the same thing for 30 years and seen no improvement in their living standards are now looking at Trump and agreeing with him. How can it get any worse, is what is going through their minds. Against a machine politician who represents the very worst of the establishment this attack line has a fair chance of success.
I'll use India as an example, the anti-Muslim nationalist BJP used exactly the same message among Muslim voters in India and won enough of them over. They obviously didn't win a majority of Muslim votes but they won more than expected with a simple message of, "it can't get any worse". To people in desperate situations, without jobs or relying on state handouts to live the "let's try something new" approach is quite powerful.
Leave also used this same approach to devastating effect, UKIP could do the same in the North and Wales. Any area or people who suffer from deprivation are much more open to the "it can't get any worse" approach. Whatever one thinks of Trump, he is a completely untested candidate and will bring a completely new approach to the presidency. These voters know what they get with Clinton, they are living through it at the moment.
If Trump wins the White House then it will be down to this pitch to voters who may not have ever considered voting Republican let alone for a character like Trump. Against Hillary it is a devastating attack. She has no answer to it.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/ukip-surge-labour-losing-its-welsh-heartlands0 -
Given that young people don't vote juat as much I the US as the UK it is completely irrelevant if he's down with college educated whitesPlatoSaid said:
I read something on RCP IIRC last night - plus another report elsewhere saying Trump is rapidly closing the Millenials polling gap.rottenborough said:Carville on POTUS election (my bold):
"Q: Who is that key voter today that could swing the election?
Every election produces a trending demographic—we had soccer moms, we had the Hispanic vote—the place that there is a little elasticity in the electorate. In this election, it is college whites. They are going to be the people that are really going to decide. Trump has to try to win them over, but he is doing much worse with that particular demographic than Romney did. Republicans have never lost college whites in the history of polling, and right now Trump is behind Clinton, or, at best, even."
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/james-carville-presidential-election-20160 -
Interesting psychology here
http://theweek.com/speedreads/646898/here-are-bunch-ways-hillary-clinton-avoided-talking-journalists
"Hillary Clinton's campaign announced Thursday their candidate would begin flying on a larger plane with room for media to tag along starting on Labor Day. That's newsworthy because it has been nine months since Clinton held a press conference, and what interactions she does have with the media are notoriously well-controlled by her staff.
In New Hampshire last year, Clinton's aides actually used a rope to hold reporters away from her, an experience that is more the rule than the exception. In that vein, Politico has compiled a fascinating list of other times the campaign made covering Clinton "like a sensory deprivation experience" for print pool journalists. Here are a few of the most bizarre anecdotes:0 -
Yes, as long as you ignore all the times Hilary talks to the press and takes questions she barely interacts with the press.PlatoSaid said:Interesting psychology here
http://theweek.com/speedreads/646898/here-are-bunch-ways-hillary-clinton-avoided-talking-journalists
"Hillary Clinton's campaign announced Thursday their candidate would begin flying on a larger plane with room for media to tag along starting on Labor Day. That's newsworthy because it has been nine months since Clinton held a press conference, and what interactions she does have with the media are notoriously well-controlled by her staff.
In New Hampshire last year, Clinton's aides actually used a rope to hold reporters away from her, an experience that is more the rule than the exception. In that vein, Politico has compiled a fascinating list of other times the campaign made covering Clinton "like a sensory deprivation experience" for print pool journalists. Here are a few of the most bizarre anecdotes:0 -
The Messiah worship in Ramsgate...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/03/corbyn-to-pledge-30bn-to-restore-pride-and-prosperity-to-south-east-england0 -
Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.0
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Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j0 -
Miss Plato, Frenchist headwear is bound to look silly. Real men wear flat caps. Or bowler hats. Or fezes. Fezzes? Fezi?0
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Izzard doesn't need a beret for that...PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j0 -
Safari hats are surely acceptable? (Disclosure - I may own one)Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, Frenchist headwear is bound to look silly. Real men wear flat caps. Or bowler hats. Or fezes. Fezzes? Fezi?
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Mr. kle4, a pith helmet? Of course!0
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So Burberry baseball caps don't make it on to the list?Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, Frenchist headwear is bound to look silly. Real men wear flat caps. Or bowler hats. Or fezes. Fezzes? Fezi?
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Mr. Rentool, must admit, I have a Ferrari baseball cap (vital for a chap with an aerodynamic head and spectacles, to keep the sun and rain off).0
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Good article. Interesting comment that whether Thatcher was thought of as good or bad, at least she had the balls to do what she wanted to do, rather than most modern politicians who just say what they think people want to hear. Also the disconnect between the modern metropolitan Labour Party and the working man.John_M said:
This is a good article. Newport is about 20 miles from me. It's worth noting that the Thatcher effect has faded:MaxPB said:I have to say there is quite a powerful message in Trump's, "it can't get any worse" pitch to minority voters. Blacks and Hispanics living in poverty having voted Democrat all their lives and having seen their Democrat controlled states, legislatures and cities go into a state of despair must have had these thoughts before. In the darkest recesses of their minds people who have done the same thing for 30 years and seen no improvement in their living standards are now looking at Trump and agreeing with him. How can it get any worse, is what is going through their minds. Against a machine politician who represents the very worst of the establishment this attack line has a fair chance of success.
I'll use India as an example, the anti-Muslim nationalist BJP used exactly the same message among Muslim voters in India and won enough of them over. They obviously didn't win a majority of Muslim votes but they won more than expected with a simple message of, "it can't get any worse". To people in desperate situations, without jobs or relying on state handouts to live the "let's try something new" approach is quite powerful.
Leave also used this same approach to devastating effect, UKIP could do the same in the North and Wales. Any area or people who suffer from deprivation are much more open to the "it can't get any worse" approach. Whatever one thinks of Trump, he is a completely untested candidate and will bring a completely new approach to the presidency. These voters know what they get with Clinton, they are living through it at the moment.
If Trump wins the White House then it will be down to this pitch to voters who may not have ever considered voting Republican let alone for a character like Trump. Against Hillary it is a devastating attack. She has no answer to it.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/ukip-surge-labour-losing-its-welsh-heartlands
Also an excellent comment from @Max_PB about the disaffected, Trump is playing to this crowd in the same way as Farage and the Leave campaign did, and to some extent have the SNP in Scotland.
Wales could well see Labour come third in 2020, behind both the Tories and UKIP.0 -
Yet he has the same right as you or I to peacefully protest without facing assault on the basis of how he chooses to dress (which is completely his choice as well).oxfordsimon said:
Izzard doesn't need a beret for that...
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Mr. Stodge, I agree. It was wrong when thugs chased Farage and his family out of a pub, and wrong when Izzard's beret was stolen.0
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Less traditional I fear, but Safari was the best descriptor I could think of..Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, a pith helmet? Of course!
http://www.kendrickimports.com/rogue/hats/leather-hats/ranger-hat-127b-black-leather0 -
I thought for a moment you were referring to the wacky synagogue in Ramsgate that was built for Moses Montefiore, father of proto-Zionism, who was told in a dream that he would be the "possessor of everything".FrancisUrquhart said:The Messiah worship in Ramsgate...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/03/corbyn-to-pledge-30bn-to-restore-pride-and-prosperity-to-south-east-england0 -
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.0 -
College educated whites include all age groups, including the over 60s, while not all young people will be at College either. Romney actually won white graduates in the 2012 election and the Tories won graduates at the last UK election tooAlistair said:
Given that young people don't vote juat as much I the US as the UK it is completely irrelevant if he's down with college educated whitesPlatoSaid said:
I read something on RCP IIRC last night - plus another report elsewhere saying Trump is rapidly closing the Millenials polling gap.rottenborough said:Carville on POTUS election (my bold):
"Q: Who is that key voter today that could swing the election?
Every election produces a trending demographic—we had soccer moms, we had the Hispanic vote—the place that there is a little elasticity in the electorate. In this election, it is college whites. They are going to be the people that are really going to decide. Trump has to try to win them over, but he is doing much worse with that particular demographic than Romney did. Republicans have never lost college whites in the history of polling, and right now Trump is behind Clinton, or, at best, even."
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/james-carville-presidential-election-2016
Trump's demographic is more like UKIP than the Tories, he does best with the white working class and non-College graduates, the Tories do best with white graduates and the wealthy middle class0 -
very snazzykle4 said:
Less traditional I fear, but Safari was the best descriptor I could think of..Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, a pith helmet? Of course!
http://www.kendrickimports.com/rogue/hats/leather-hats/ranger-hat-127b-black-leather
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Like porn it seems people can't agree on the definition of a press conference. She regularly takes questions from groups of journalists at scheduled times yet somehow they aren't 'proper' press conferences.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.
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And where does it appear in my comment that I would support any assault on anyone?stodge said:
Yet he has the same right as you or I to peacefully protest without facing assault on the basis of how he chooses to dress (which is completely his choice as well).oxfordsimon said:
Izzard doesn't need a beret for that...
Izzard has an uncanny knack of being on the losing side of nearly every argument and contributes no real insight or intelligence to the political life of our nation.0 -
271 days and countingMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.
@Alistair is letting his confirmation bias show.0 -
Mr. kle4, looks rather good.0
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'There not laughing with you, Eddie, they're laughing at you....'oxfordsimon said:
And where does it appear in my comment that I would support any assault on anyone?stodge said:
Yet he has the same right as you or I to peacefully protest without facing assault on the basis of how he chooses to dress (which is completely his choice as well).oxfordsimon said:
Izzard doesn't need a beret for that...
Izzard has an uncanny knack of being on the losing side of nearly every argument and contributes no real insight or intelligence to the political life of our nation.0 -
Absolutely, Mr Dancer. The Queen's Head in Downe is a very pleasant establishment - Mr Stodge Senior and I have lunched there on a number of occasions.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Stodge, I agree. It was wrong when thugs chased Farage and his family out of a pub, and wrong when Izzard's beret was stolen.
That isn't the point - the point is the mob (or the majority and there's not a lot of difference sometimes) condoning assaults on minorites or those who are or say something "different".
How far is ridiculing Izzard and his beret from attacking a woman wearing a hijab or a Polish person for not speaking English ? The fearful rail against that which they neither accept nor understand and the fearful are everywhere and certainly not confined to one side of the political spectrum.
Too many politicians are only speaking to the fearful and that's the problem.0 -
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!0 -
Mr. Stodge, quite far, I'd say. Wearing something to stand out is going to get attention, and politeness, whilst nice, is not mandatory.
Ridiculing things is an essential aspect of free speech, and entirely divorced from violence or incitement to violence [or theft, in regards to the beret].
Edited extra bit: to quote myself:
https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/7708964062404608000 -
Crooked HillaryAlistair said:
Like porn it seems people can't agree on the definition of a press conference. She regularly takes questions from groups of journalists at scheduled times yet somehow they aren't 'proper' press conferences.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.
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HYUFD said:
Clashes between Remain and Leave protestors at today's 'Marches for Europe', one Leave protestor even stole Eddie Izzard's beret after which Izzard gave chase
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3772237/Angry-scenes-police-separate-Leave-Remain-protesters-anti-Brexit-rallies-Britain-Eddie-Izzard-pink-beret-knocked-off.html
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Of course he does. But the next time the government want to win a referendum, will they send a man wearing a grass skirt and fishnet tights onto Question Time to bat for them? Or how about a man dressed as Frankenstein's monster, wearing a gorilla suit, or looking like a pantomime dame? Shortly before the EU referendum, they used Eddie Izzard, a man wearing lipstick and dressed as a woman, against Nigel Farage. Mr Izzard should not be assaulted or robbed, but using him to make the government's case for Britain staying in the EU was ridiculous, and whoever was responsible for that idiotic choice should get the sack.stodge said:
Yet he has the same right as you or I to peacefully protest without facing assault on the basis of how he chooses to dress (which is completely his choice as well).oxfordsimon said:
Izzard doesn't need a beret for that...
Can you imagine the government side in any other serious country doing something similar?
"And 'ere, on ze side of Freste, arguing against le Frexit, we 'ave Monsieur Poupou, 'oo is wearing 'eez special dress wiz ze sequins, and ze bright red leepsteeck. On ze side of Frexit, we 'ave Madame Le Pen".
Who would win?
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How many of them wear pink ones?foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown!0 -
At the start of August Clinton took questions from the journalists at the national association of black and Hispanic journalist conference.PlatoSaid said:
271 days and countingMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.
@Alistair is letting his confirmation bias show.
Why does that not meet the definition of a press conference?0 -
And end to nation building and refighting the cold war might be substantial to you if you stand a chance of becoming cannon fodder.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.0 -
Just the Royal Military PoliceRobD said:
How many of them wear pink ones?foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown! 0 -
williamglenn said:
And end to nation building and refighting the cold war might be substantial to you if you stand a chance of becoming cannon fodder.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Except it would be a Cold War against Mexico, China and Islam rather than Russiawilliamglenn said:
And end to nation building and refighting the cold war might be substantial to you if you stand a chance of becoming cannon fodder.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.0 -
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
https://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl900 -
It doesn't matter that he doesn't have answers. This is exactly the same as Remain campaigners saying leave didn't have any answers on our relationship with the EU afterwards. People don't care what the change is going to be, just that there will be change. Hillary has the same problem as Remain, in a year or time when people are looking for change she represents the status quo. There are no easy answers for her, she can't suddenly become the change candidate, a fear campaign based on "you'll lose x" carries no value among people with little or nothing to lose.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.0 -
For the same reason that Corbyn giving a "Press Conference" in front of only the Morning Star and Press TV wouldn't count either.Alistair said:
At the start of August Clinton took questions from the journalists at the national association of black and Hispanic journalist conference.PlatoSaid said:
271 days and countingMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.
@Alistair is letting his confirmation bias show.
Why does that not meet the definition of a press conference?
Clinton's appearances are being very tightly stage managed, with only friendly journos allowed within half a mile of her.0 -
A real war between NATO and Russia is much more likely than a "cold war".williamglenn said:
And end to nation building and refighting the cold war might be substantial to you if you stand a chance of becoming cannon fodder.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
There's a lot of misunderstanding about the cold war, and most people who now assert that it ended around 1989 seem to be unaware that during the 1980s it was generally considered to have ended in the 1960s. Thus in the early 1970s there was something called détente. The major feature of the cold war was the arms race - especially strategic nuclear warheads and intercontinental ballistic missiles. Its next most important feature was probably trade and cultural blocks, many of which remained after it ended. Put those together and you obviously get a lot of spying.0 -
This is exactly correct, and as the Brexit campaign proved, saying "you'll lose x" to people who feel they don't have a stake in x to begin with is actively damaging to your prospects.MaxPB said:There are no easy answers for her, she can't suddenly become the change candidate, a fear campaign based on "you'll lose x" carries no value among people with little or nothing to lose.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.0 -
NPR described it as a 'moderated Q&A, not a press conference'Alistair said:
At the start of August Clinton took questions from the journalists at the national association of black and Hispanic journalist conference.PlatoSaid said:
271 days and countingMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Alistair, my understanding was that it had been quite some time since Clinton held a press conference.
@Alistair is letting his confirmation bias show.
Why does that not meet the definition of a press conference?
http://www.npr.org/2016/08/05/488836402/asked-about-black-friends-clinton-says-shes-blessed-to-have-a-crew0 -
Who thought that was a good idea?Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl900 -
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl900 -
Dan Hannan?RobD said:
Who thought that was a good idea?Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
0 -
I agree that it doesn't matter that Trump doesn't have answers. Trump is a brand - much more so than Clinton. Many of those who intend to vote for Trump aren't voting for any particular change. They are voting for the character, the guy with the attitude, as if they were cheering at the wrestling.MaxPB said:
It doesn't matter that he doesn't have answers. This is exactly the same as Remain campaigners saying leave didn't have any answers on our relationship with the EU afterwards. People don't care what the change is going to be, just that there will be change. Hillary has the same problem as Remain, in a year or time when people are looking for change she represents the status quo. There are no easy answers for her, she can't suddenly become the change candidate, a fear campaign based on "you'll lose x" carries no value among people with little or nothing to lose.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.
Trump goes to Mexico. Nothing much happens, except that it's clear that the Mexican government doesn't want the wall, which we knew anyway. He makes a fool of himself, even. But nobody cares. His face gets on the telly, his brand gets stronger, he rises in the polls. "Content" and policy aren't required. I reckon the "Trump meets Hispanics" and "Trump meets blacks" stories are mainly aimed at middle-class whites who can give themselves the excuse that Trump isn't as racist as he first appeared, when they either vote for him or abstain.
0 -
Whenever I see Izzard sporting his pink beret and generally making a pillock of himself, I can't help think of Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em...
http://www.steve-p.org/sm/menaswomenI.jpg0 -
The Democratic core vote includes those who have least to lose in America (African Americans and Hispanics for example) while the Republican core vote consists of affluent college educated whites and poorer whites who may be characterised as hillbillies*. I cannot see Trump appealing to the Democratic core vote, but also not to college educated whites.MaxPB said:
It doesn't matter that he doesn't have answers. This is exactly the same as Remain campaigners saying leave didn't have any answers on our relationship with the EU afterwards. People don't care what the change is going to be, just that there will be change. Hillary has the same problem as Remain, in a year or time when people are looking for change she represents the status quo. There are no easy answers for her, she can't suddenly become the change candidate, a fear campaign based on "you'll lose x" carries no value among people with little or nothing to lose.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.
*Not meant as an insult. Some of my own ancestors were Scots-Irish farmers - the hillbillies of another place:
http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/hillbilly-elegy/18700#.V8sU8nRwbqB0 -
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.0 -
2020 he aims to be a full time politician. Would could possibly go wrong.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.0 -
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.0 -
Dr. Fox, this is entirely my point. Trump is doing what the Leave campaign did, the "you have nothing to lose" part of the campaign meant nothing to me, yet I still voted to leave. Remember that the US election is a binary choice, not the same as out party politics. By attacking the weak underbelly of Democrat support, Trump might make a lot of unexpected headway. Just like when the results from Sunderland and Newcastle were coming in and people were shocked at how well Leave were doing.foxinsoxuk said:
The Democratic core vote includes those who have least to lose in America (African Americans and Hispanics for example) while the Republican core vote consists of affluent college educated whites and poorer whites who may be characterised as hillbillies*. I cannot see Trump appealing to the Democratic core vote, but also not to college educated whites.MaxPB said:
It doesn't matter that he doesn't have answers. This is exactly the same as Remain campaigners saying leave didn't have any answers on our relationship with the EU afterwards. People don't care what the change is going to be, just that there will be change. Hillary has the same problem as Remain, in a year or time when people are looking for change she represents the status quo. There are no easy answers for her, she can't suddenly become the change candidate, a fear campaign based on "you'll lose x" carries no value among people with little or nothing to lose.stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.
*Not meant as an insult. Some of my own ancestors were Scots-Irish farmers - the hillbillies of another place:
http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/hillbilly-elegy/18700#.V8sU8nRwbqB0 -
I'm sure he goes down well with the Islington set, they'll find somewhere for him to stand near Corbynsville. Kate Hoey's seat probably.FrancisUrquhart said:
2020 he aims to be a full time politician. Would could possibly go wrong.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
Meanwhile the Tories need to find a job for the soon to be redundant Hannan, before he buggers off to the US for a big-money think tank post.0 -
The full election suck up from Trump here
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/read-the-full-remarks-from-donald-trump-in-detroit/article/2600959
"For centuries, the African-American church has been the conscience of our country. So true. It's from the pews and pulpits and Christian teachings of black churches all across this land that the Civil Rights movement lifted up its soul and lifted up the soul of our nation. It's from these pews that our nation has been inspired toward a better moral character, a deeper concern for mankind, and spirit of charity and unity that binds us all together. And we're bound together and I see that today. This has been an amazing day for me
"The African-American faith community has been one of God's greatest gifts to America and to its people. There is perhaps no action our leaders can take that would do more to heal our country and support our people than to provide a greater platform to the Black churches and church-goers. You do right everyday by your community and your families. You raise children in the Light of God; I will always support your church, always. And defend your right to worship . . . so important..
0 -
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.0 -
I'm just one Brexiter - and quite a young one at that - but I love going to Europe. I'll be in Paris in 10 days time, Sofia in November and Basle in December.foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Okay, I might not do Sofia.0 -
It's not a court of law. Given 17 million voters, there must be some. On my TL, the nutters mainly just want the EU to collapse. They're the ones that post the Express articles, which has proved a reliable diagnostic for EUphobia.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.0 -
I don't think many people wish ill on our European neighbours. The negotiations over the UKs exit from the political Europe are very much business and politics, rather than any view on other countries and their people.foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.0 -
Is there a particular reason why Clinton won't do a press conference?0
-
Hannan is capable and coherent, but he's still rather unknown. If he heads off to the US then its almost self-contradictory.Sandpit said:
I'm sure he goes down well with the Islington set, they'll find somewhere for him to stand near Corbynsville. Kate Hoey's seat probably.FrancisUrquhart said:
2020 he aims to be a full time politician. Would could possibly go wrong.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
Meanwhile the Tories need to find a job for the soon to be redundant Hannan, before he buggers off to the US for a big-money think tank post.
I can't quite understand why the US like our spin offs. Do they really need DMill for example? Couldn't they find their own slightly-wiser-than-his-daft-younger-brother-but-was-outfoxed-when-it-mattered type person?
0 -
I did purposefully say some rather than all.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Some Leavers are pretty anti-anything foreign. Others very open to Europe. It was a coalition of very different issues.
Those that think that they have nothing to lose, often realise that they do.
Though as I said I am rich enough to benefit, indeed seeing London and the SE cut down to size was one of the things that weighed in favour of Brexit with me too.0 -
You actually said a lot, when I suspect it is a small minority who are actually anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
I did purposefully say some rather than all.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Some Leavers are pretty anti-anything foreign. Others very open to Europe. It was a coalition of very different issues.
Those that think that they have nothing to lose, often realise that they do.
Though as I said I am rich enough to benefit, indeed seeing London and the SE cut down to size was one of the things that weighed in favour of Brexit with me too.0 -
Big enough. Millions of voters, but as I said not all.RobD said:
You actually said a lot, when I suspect it is a small minority who are actually anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
I did purposefully say some rather than all.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Some Leavers are pretty anti-anything foreign. Others very open to Europe. It was a coalition of very different issues.
Those that think that they have nothing to lose, often realise that they do.
Though as I said I am rich enough to benefit, indeed seeing London and the SE cut down to size was one of the things that weighed in favour of Brexit with me too.0 -
Hm, millions still seems on the high side. Would be interesting to see what the polling the polling evidence is, rather than just guessing. I suspect only a very small number are anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
Big enough. Millions of voters, but as I said not all.RobD said:
You actually said a lot, when I suspect it is a small minority who are actually anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
I did purposefully say some rather than all.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Some Leavers are pretty anti-anything foreign. Others very open to Europe. It was a coalition of very different issues.
Those that think that they have nothing to lose, often realise that they do.
Though as I said I am rich enough to benefit, indeed seeing London and the SE cut down to size was one of the things that weighed in favour of Brexit with me too.0 -
Izzard - I've got a lot of time for him. He's really quite good at what he does (comedy). He has the odd joined-up political thought, but that's no reason whatsoever for him putting himself forwards as some wise owl (even if they're now again to be free).0
-
No Republican has had more than 10% of the African American vote in the last 50 years, and Trump is going to do worse than most. Ditto Hispanics.MaxPB said:
Dr. Fox, this is entirely my point. Trump is doing what the Leave campaign did, the "you have nothing to lose" part of the campaign meant nothing to me, yet I still voted to leave. Remember that the US election is a binary choice, not the same as out party politics. By attacking the weak underbelly of Democrat support, Trump might make a lot of unexpected headway. Just like when the results from Sunderland and Newcastle were coming in and people were shocked at how well Leave were doing.foxinsoxuk said:
The Democratic core vote includes those who have least to lose in America (African Americans and Hispanics for example) while the Republican core vote consists of affluent college educated whites and poorer whites who may be characterised as hillbillies*. I cannot see Trump appealing to the Democratic core vote, but also not to college educated whites.MaxPB said:
It doesn't matter that he doesn't have .stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.
*Not meant as an insult. Some of my own ancestors were Scots-Irish farmers - the hillbillies of another place:
http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/hillbilly-elegy/18700#.V8sU8nRwbqB
The Demographics are too heavily against him, and I think his Yankee city slicker schtick will not be that strong with the hillbilly vote.
Most white Americans do have a lot to lose, not many are in the nothing to lose bracket.0 -
There are quite a few on here who gleefully post on every bit of bad news out of Europe, and actively wish for the EU to completely collapse. Anti-EU feeling is often tinged with anti-German, anti French and anti-slav feeling.RobD said:
Hm, millions still seems on the high side. Would be interesting to see what the polling the polling evidence is, rather than just guessing. I suspect only a very small number are anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
Big enough. Millions of voters, but as I said not all.RobD said:
You actually said a lot, when I suspect it is a small minority who are actually anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
I did purposefully say some rather than all.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Some Leavers are pretty anti-anything foreign. Others very open to Europe. It was a coalition of very different issues.
Those that think that they have nothing to lose, often realise that they do.
Though as I said I am rich enough to benefit, indeed seeing London and the SE cut down to size was one of the things that weighed in favour of Brexit with me too.0 -
There is definitely a concerted effort by Europhiles to try and tarnish Leavers with being anti-European. Europhiles go out of their way to avoid explaining that the EU is a political project whose ultimate aim is the creation of a supranational European government. Quite understandable to not want any part of such a thing. However, Europhiles prefer to cry racism, bigotry and small mindedness at every opportunity.Sandpit said:
I don't think many people wish ill on our European neighbours. The negotiations over the UKs exit from the political Europe are very much business and politics, rather than any view on other countries and their people.foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.0 -
Is he still good at the old comedy? Genuine question, because I only time I ever see him on tv these days is in regards to politics.Omnium said:Izzard - I've got a lot of time for him. He's really quite good at what he does (comedy). He has the odd joined-up political thought, but that's no reason whatsoever for him putting himself forwards as some wise owl (even if they're now again to be free).
Edit:- And the charity running...0 -
Good question. Saw him a few years ago, before the politics rubbish - he did a late gig, 11pm-2am - was definitely funny then.FrancisUrquhart said:
Is he still good at the old comedy? Genuine question, because I only time I ever see him on tv these days is in regards to politics.Omnium said:Izzard - I've got a lot of time for him. He's really quite good at what he does (comedy). He has the odd joined-up political thought, but that's no reason whatsoever for him putting himself forwards as some wise owl (even if they're now again to be free).
0 -
The away games in Europe for Leicester are a bit tricky for me. Brugge is too soon to get leave, and Copenhagen and Oporto coincide with some important business for me that will be difficult to get out of.tlg86 said:
I'm just one Brexiter - and quite a young one at that - but I love going to Europe. I'll be in Paris in 10 days time, Sofia in November and Basle in December.foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Okay, I might not do Sofia.
We had a good transfer season, keeping everyone (bar Kante) that we wanted to keep, and gaining formidable firepower. Our owners are the best in the PL, respecting traditions yet taking us to the next level.0 -
Aren't they posting that in a "glad we got out of that" kind of way? Again, I actually wonder if there is any evidence to back up your claim.foxinsoxuk said:
There are quite a few on here who gleefully post on every bit of bad news out of Europe, and actively wish for the EU to completely collapse. Anti-EU feeling is often tinged with anti-German, anti French and anti-slav feeling.RobD said:
Hm, millions still seems on the high side. Would be interesting to see what the polling the polling evidence is, rather than just guessing. I suspect only a very small number are anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
Big enough. Millions of voters, but as I said not all.RobD said:
You actually said a lot, when I suspect it is a small minority who are actually anti-Europe.foxinsoxuk said:
I did purposefully say some rather than all.RobD said:
Do you have evidence for your anti-Europe claim?foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Some Leavers are pretty anti-anything foreign. Others very open to Europe. It was a coalition of very different issues.
Those that think that they have nothing to lose, often realise that they do.
Though as I said I am rich enough to benefit, indeed seeing London and the SE cut down to size was one of the things that weighed in favour of Brexit with me too.0 -
Based on the group dance, Ed Balls is the love child of Ann Widdecombe and John Sergeant0
-
"the big number was Trump's popularity numbers among black voters — 97 percent unfavorable, 3 percent unsure, and 0 percent favorable"foxinsoxuk said:
No Republican has had more than 10% of the African American vote in the last 50 years, and Trump is going to do worse than most. Ditto Hispanics.MaxPB said:
Dr. Fox, this is entirely my point. Trump is doing what the Leave campaign did, the "you have nothing to lose" part of the campaign meant nothing to me, yet I still voted to leave. Remember that the US election is a binary choice, not the same as out party politics. By attacking the weak underbelly of Democrat support, Trump might make a lot of unexpected headway. Just like when the results from Sunderland and Newcastle were coming in and people were shocked at how well Leave were doing.foxinsoxuk said:
The Democratic core vote includes those who have least to lose in America (African Americans and Hispanics for example) while the Republican core vote consists of affluent college educated whites and poorer whites who may be characterised as hillbillies*. I cannot see Trump appealing to the Democratic core vote, but also not to college educated whites.MaxPB said:
It doesn't matter that he doesn'stodge said:
Trump has no answers, none at all. All he has and trades on is the anger and the discontent. In this regard, he's the complete opportunist giving people someone else to blame for their situation.taffys said:''Completely agree. Trump's touching the third rail. He got a standing ovation in black Christian church today - in Detriot. He's nothing to lose either.''
From the outside it looks like Farage was a bit of a watershed for Trump. It makes you wonder what was said in private. Farage is well used to fighting for 'take for granted...they will always vote for us' labour votes. And getting some. And some is all that Trump needs.
We have this ludicrous "wall" policy which is meaningless but there's almost nothing else of substance in his programme.
Hillary offers nothing to the American people other than not being Trump. I'm not sure that is enough.
*Not meant as an insult. Some of my own ancestors were Scots-Irish farmers - the hillbillies of another place:
http://www.spiked-online.com/spiked-review/article/hillbilly-elegy/18700#.V8sU8nRwbqB
The Demographics are too heavily against him, and I think his Yankee city slicker schtick will not be that strong with the hillbilly vote.
Most white Americans do have a lot to lose, not many are in the nothing to lose bracket.
http://theweek.com/speedreads/645840/rachel-maddow-gleefully-reads-list-terrible-things-more-popular-than-donald-trump
Trump will flop with AA voters no matter how many black churches he visits.0 -
Not tempted by the 125-1 at Sky Bet?TheScreamingEagles said:Based on the group dance, Ed Balls is the love child of Ann Widdecombe and John Sergeant
0 -
Yes; he isn't great is he.TheScreamingEagles said:Based on the group dance, Ed Balls is the love child of Ann Widdecombe and John Sergeant
Kudos to him for doing it though. And politically it is a very, very good idea.0 -
We are to assume that most of them are taking the odd shower or have we gone back to the eighteenth century?HYUFD said:Dramatic new poll result from yougov...1 in 3 still take a bath at least a few times a week
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/772075374771638273?lang=en-gb0 -
I guess it's down to there being so much more money in politics in the US.Omnium said:
Hannan is capable and coherent, but he's still rather unknown. If he heads off to the US then its almost self-contradictory.Sandpit said:
I'm sure he goes down well with the Islington set, they'll find somewhere for him to stand near Corbynsville. Kate Hoey's seat probably.FrancisUrquhart said:
2020 he aims to be a full time politician. Would could possibly go wrong.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
Meanwhile the Tories need to find a job for the soon to be redundant Hannan, before he buggers off to the US for a big-money think tank post.
I can't quite understand why the US like our spin offs. Do they really need DMill for example? Couldn't they find their own slightly-wiser-than-his-daft-younger-brother-but-was-outfoxed-when-it-mattered type person?
British think tanks just aren't in the business of handing out mid six figure salaries to thinkers and policy makers in the same way they do in the States, so the people follow the money, and those with the money have enough of it to take a chance on well known outsiders.0 -
I am, he could do a John Sergeant.tlg86 said:
Not tempted by the 125-1 at Sky Bet?TheScreamingEagles said:Based on the group dance, Ed Balls is the love child of Ann Widdecombe and John Sergeant
0 -
Probably the biggest perk of my job is being able to sort out leave quite quickly. It's a shame you can't do Brugge as that's a very decent trip. I'm glad we're playing on different days as I'm looking forward to seeing how Leicester get on.foxinsoxuk said:
The away games in Europe for Leicester are a bit tricky for me. Brugge is too soon to get leave, and Copenhagen and Oporto coincide with some important business for me that will be difficult to get out of.tlg86 said:
I'm just one Brexiter - and quite a young one at that - but I love going to Europe. I'll be in Paris in 10 days time, Sofia in November and Basle in December.foxinsoxuk said:
That is going to be a problem for the Brexiteers. A lot of Leavers are anti-Europe as well as anti EU.Sandpit said:
Yes he is. A jumped-up transvestite comedian-cum-wannabe-politician wasn't really a match for him.PlatoSaid said:
Hannan is exceptionally good at this form of debate.Sandpit said:
From Reading University before the Brexit vote - Eddie Izzard vs Daniel Hannan.foxinsoxuk said:
I wouldn't say that near a Royal Marine or Paratrooper!PlatoSaid said:Ponte Jack
What is it about the beret that immediately eliminates all gravitas and makes the wearer look like a clown? https://t.co/JTCMqck22j
And of course Izzard IS a clown albeit not a very funny one!
The politician vs the clown.
ttps://youtu.be/aBIIdcUjl90
My favourite Hannan line from that debate was the one about liking Europe being possible without liking the EU, in the same way as liking football is possible without liking FIFA.
It is part of what will lead to a hard Brexit. Out of that will be some winners and some losers, but it is going to hit our service industry exports.
I am rich enough to benefit from hard Brexit though, I can afford to retire to Europe.
Okay, I might not do Sofia.
We had a good transfer season, keeping everyone (bar Kante) that we wanted to keep, and gaining formidable firepower. Our owners are the best in the PL, respecting traditions yet taking us to the next level.0 -
Ed Balls. 300/1 for Strictly on BF. He has more chance of becoming Labour leader on the odds!0
-
I think the guy's a complete prat, but "The Death Star Canteen" always has me in stitches. He really should have stuck to the comedy clubs, rarely do entertainers make good politicians.Mortimer said:
Good question. Saw him a few years ago, before the politics rubbish - he did a late gig, 11pm-2am - was definitely funny then.FrancisUrquhart said:
Is he still good at the old comedy? Genuine question, because I only time I ever see him on tv these days is in regards to politics.Omnium said:Izzard - I've got a lot of time for him. He's really quite good at what he does (comedy). He has the odd joined-up political thought, but that's no reason whatsoever for him putting himself forwards as some wise owl (even if they're now again to be free).
0 -
Hopefully he's not wearing red shoes??TheScreamingEagles said:Based on the group dance, Ed Balls is the love child of Ann Widdecombe and John Sergeant
0 -
Not so much the king of salsa as the king of wishful thinking.0
