I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
Miss Cyclefree, quite (must admit I'd never heard of that chap before now).
The economy does matter, but making a purely economic argument, regardless of social or cultural or political impact, reduces the people to slaves selling themselves to the highest bidder. The economy often is the one crucial argument for a decision, but it isn't always so.
Remain even buggered that up with their overblown fear-mongering, which then led people to discount more credible claims that they made.
Looking to the future, and thinking of the burka ban polling, if UKIP can seize that sort of territory, they could do handily, especially if facing an open borders friend of Hamas.
Generally what happens is that the money comes from everyone - including ordinary folk - in tax.
What comesnback in subsidies tends to go to public sector or quasi public sector organisations.
So the money is perceived as being taken from ordinary people and given to establishment insiders, hangers on and cronies. A sort of reverse Robin Hood.
The worst example of that is the BBC which levies a poll tax and then uses it to spew Guardianista propaganda disguised as news and documentaries
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
It was much the same before Brexit. Just swap Farage or Boris for Trump and call me Dave for Clinton.
They are so cocooned in their metropolitan bubble they cant conceive how any reasonable person could think otherwise.
I was on bridgewinners and an advert appeared on the side advertising Trump - and the community blew a gasket. Regrettably hate and intolerance has now reached the bridge table.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
You can get some creme for that.
"Cream" in English!
Well yes of course I know that. I deliberately spelled the word that way.
English physicians are proper upstanding fellows. They'd never consider a cream, much less a creme. Whatever your complaint, cold baths, leeches, and a bit of the country air won't hurt. Nothing wrong with you at all, but just to be on the safe side let's see you next week.
Mr. Royale, indeed. For some people, they genuinely associate themselves with a class or lifestyle [I mean neither in a derogatory sense] than with a nation. The internet and cheap travel has helped to foster this sort of thing.
[Snipped]
Save that even such people rely on the nation to protect them from harm or on the nation's laws. Their class and lifestyle are dependant on the nation, even if they refuse to recognize this. When they berate multinational companies for not paying tax they are berating them for not paying tax to one country so that the money can be spent by that country for that country's benefit.
Look at the ages and jobs of those killed in the Bataclan massacre: young, mobile, many working in new techie industries, not all French. And yet, in the end, those who survived depended on the forces of law from a state, a nation - and it is the rulers of that nation who are now feeling the concerns of the people of that nation for not doing what the first duty of any state is - to protect them from enemies, at home and abroad.
And the same is true here and in other countries, no matter how mobile and tech savvy we may be, no matter how many nationalities are friends and relatives come from.
Those who think nations, tribes, groups are passé are the delusional ones, IMO. A dangerous delusion because if you do not have some recognizable political entity based on a territory how are you going to have democracy. There has to be a people, a demos and there have to be geographical boundaries to that demos.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
Internationalism is a form of imperialism, in which people are bound to obey bureaucracies.
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
Miss Cyclefree, quite (must admit I'd never heard of that chap before now).
The economy does matter, but making a purely economic argument, regardless of social or cultural or political impact, reduces the people to slaves selling themselves to the highest bidder. The economy often is the one crucial argument for a decision, but it isn't always so.
Remain even buggered that up with their overblown fear-mongering, which then led people to discount more credible claims that they made.
Looking to the future, and thinking of the burka ban polling, if UKIP can seize that sort of territory, they could do handily, especially if facing an open borders friend of Hamas.
Generally what happens is that the money comes from everyone - including ordinary folk - in tax.
What comesnback in subsidies tends to go to public sector or quasi public sector organisations.
So the money is perceived as being taken from ordinary people and given to establishment insiders, hangers on and cronies. A sort of reverse Robin Hood.
The worst example of that is the BBC which levies a poll tax and then uses it to spew Guardianista propaganda disguised as news and documentaries
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
It was much the same before Brexit. Just swap Farage or Boris for Trump and call me Dave for Clinton.
They are so cocooned in their metropolitan bubble they cant conceive how any reasonable person could think otherwise.
I was on bridgewinners and an advert appeared on the side advertising Trump - and the community blew a gasket. Regrettably hate and intolerance has now reached the bridge table.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
It was free money. I expected a narrow victory for Remain, but the odds being offered against Leave were ridiculous. Between 3 and 6 to 1, when polls were almost neck and neck. I made £225 on bets of £45.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
In what universe was Trump a benefit for the Leave camp? Everything is claimed as a benefit for Leave in retrospect.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
In what universe was Trump a benefit for the Leave camp? Everything is claimed as a benefit for Leave in retrospect.
I think Leave is a benefit for Trump, not the other way round.
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
"Peterson began reading Marx as a young man, and agrees with much of the philosophy. He sees himself as “very left-wing”, and believes Ukip is the truly left-wing party. “They [Labour] are not thinking of the people who are claiming the benefits, who are facing the hardships. The Labour Party have left a [vacuum] and I think that’s where Ukip is growing.”
Peterson’s political journey is a familiar one in South Wales. Once a Labour heartland where some constituencies would weigh Labour votes rather than count them, the Valleys are now at the epicentre of Ukip’s surge."
Miss Cyclefree, quite (must admit I'd never heard of that chap before now).
The economy does matter, but making a purely economic argument, regardless of social or cultural or political impact, reduces the people to slaves selling themselves to the highest bidder. The economy often is the one crucial argument for a decision, but it isn't always so.
Remain even buggered that up with their overblown fear-mongering, which then led people to discount more credible claims that they made.
Looking to the future, and thinking of the burka ban polling, if UKIP can seize that sort of territory, they could do handily, especially if facing an open borders friend of Hamas.
Generally what happens is that the money comes from everyone - including ordinary folk - in tax.
What comesnback in subsidies tends to go to public sector or quasi public sector organisations.
So the money is perceived as being taken from ordinary people and given to establishment insiders, hangers on and cronies. A sort of reverse Robin Hood.
The worst example of that is the BBC which levies a poll tax and then uses it to spew Guardianista propaganda disguised as news and documentaries
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
It was much the same before Brexit. Just swap Farage or Boris for Trump and call me Dave for Clinton.
They are so cocooned in their metropolitan bubble they cant conceive how any reasonable person could think otherwise.
I was on bridgewinners and an advert appeared on the side advertising Trump - and the community blew a gasket. Regrettably hate and intolerance has now reached the bridge table.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
edited to try untangle blockquotes
I had a brief foray into a boardgame club. Horrific. Mind you, online gaming is often even worse. Perversely, the game where losing really hurts (Eve Online) has one of the nicest communities I've ever encountered.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
Saw an article on espn.com that basically said he is the real deal but not yet ready and will get creamed by the Giants' D. Looking forward to that game to see what the hype is about.
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
It's pre-season, defensive lines made up of folks who may well not make the team, not to mention vanilla offensive and defensive schemes. Let's wait until teams have film on him and scheme accordingly.
That's what a fan would say, I suspect.
Speaking of quarterbacks who are retired (or should be) and have had back or neck issues...
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
As I said yesterday, one of my most REMAINIAN friends is now a bashful embarrassed REMAINIAN, and wishes he'd had the guts to vote LEAVE
Your tweets are becoming positively Churchillian dear old thing.
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
Saw an article on espn.com that basically said he is the real deal but not yet ready and will get creamed by the Giants' D. Looking forward to that game to see what the hype is about.
You don't think the Washington Native American Warriors will cream Dak?
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
We really don't like being told what to do. At. All.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
It does feel like more and more people are moving towards acceptance of the result, a few that I know who wanted a second vote now seem embarrassed by the idea that a democratic vote should be overturned. This one was a real surprise though he was Remain's target market - young, university educated, Scottish, lives in London, tech sector, well traveled and Asian. For him to give up the cause so quickly and possibly over something quite trivial just shows how shallow the sentiment for remain really was.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I deliberately don't play chess, because it would take over my life, otherwise.
Will any government do anything before it becomes the worst public health panic since AIDS ? In America they supposedly are having an election but no one cares.
Miss Cyclefree, quite (must admit I'd never heard of that chap before now).
The economy does matter, but making a purely economic argument, regardless of social or cultural or political impact, reduces the people to slaves selling themselves to the highest bidder. The economy often is the one crucial argument for a decision, but it isn't always so.
Remain even buggered that up with their overblown fear-mongering, which then led people to discount more credible claims that they made.
Looking to the future, and thinking of the burka ban polling, if UKIP can seize that sort of territory, they could do handily, especially if facing an open borders friend of Hamas.
Generally what happens is that the money comes from everyone - including ordinary folk - in tax.
What comesnback in subsidies tends to go to public sector or quasi public sector organisations.
So the money is perceived as being taken from ordinary people and given to establishment insiders, hangers on and cronies. A sort of reverse Robin Hood.
The worst example of that is the BBC which levies a poll tax and then uses it to spew Guardianista propaganda disguised as news and documentaries
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
...
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
It was much the same before Brexit. Just swap Farage or Boris for Trump and call me Dave for Clinton.
They are so cocooned in their metropolitan bubble they cant conceive how any reasonable person could think otherwise.
I was on bridgewinners and an advert appeared on the side advertising Trump - and the community blew a gasket. Regrettably hate and intolerance has now reached the bridge table.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
edited to try untangle blockquotes
My partner and I have an agreement to only recriminate by e-mail. Cools things down. To quote Brian Clough - we have a chat and then he agrees I was right in the first place.:)
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
Saw an article on espn.com that basically said he is the real deal but not yet ready and will get creamed by the Giants' D. Looking forward to that game to see what the hype is about.
You don't think the Washington Native American Warriors will cream Dak?
Haven't seen much of their D this preseason. The Skins have a very interesting 3rd string running back called Kelley. Undrafted free agent. Running style looks mature ...
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Yup. Tolkien caught that British characteristic perfectly. The modest yet flinty yeomen of the shire - who will not be budged, once they are in a truculent mood. As Oliver Cromwell put it (and he won the Civil War by relying on the same people):
"I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that you call a Gentleman and is nothing else"
"I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that you call a Gentleman and is nothing else"
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
Saw an article on espn.com that basically said he is the real deal but not yet ready and will get creamed by the Giants' D. Looking forward to that game to see what the hype is about.
You don't think the Washington Native American Warriors will cream Dak?
I don't see Washington having the same sort of season, Cousins aint that good.
My Packers may get a look at Dak at Lambeau in Week 6. I still think Dallas may try and sign a vet who may get the nod over Dak if they don't think he's ready yet.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
In what universe was Trump a benefit for the Leave camp? Everything is claimed as a benefit for Leave in retrospect.
I think Leave is a benefit for Trump, not the other way round.
I think Trump has a good chance against Clinton, but people need to remember 1) America is 70% white whereas Britain is 85%. 2) Trump is doing abysmally with minorities. Here Brexit got 25% of Black Britons whereas 97% of AA see him unfavourably and 3% unsure!
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
It's pre-season, defensive lines made up of folks who may well not make the team, not to mention vanilla offensive and defensive schemes. Let's wait until teams have film on him and scheme accordingly.
That's what a fan would say, I suspect.
Speaking of quarterbacks who are retired (or should be) and have had back or neck issues...
These ads with Manning are hilarious. Love the one in the grocery store with Manning using coupons to buy something and Lionel Ritchie crooning on the piano, "It's Peyton, Peyton on a Sunday morning"
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
As I said yesterday, one of my most REMAINIAN friends is now a bashful embarrassed REMAINIAN, and wishes he'd had the guts to vote LEAVE
Your tweets are becoming positively Churchillian dear old thing.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
It does feel like more and more people are moving towards acceptance of the result, a few that I know who wanted a second vote now seem embarrassed by the idea that a democratic vote should be overturned. This one was a real surprise though he was Remain's target market - young, university educated, Scottish, lives in London, tech sector, well traveled and Asian. For him to give up the cause so quickly and possibly over something quite trivial just shows how shallow the sentiment for remain really was.
We'll see how it goes when the inevitable batch of gloomy news rolls in. I'm pleased that the initial economic shock has been milder than anticipated. It's really helped settle people down. That, plus nice weather, Rio and the cricket. Feeling pretty mellow myself.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Aside from statements like his only being 'racist' from a (us definition of) liberal point of view (I dont think he goes round using tbe N word and the like)
The issue is that liberal establishment types get apoplectic at the merest hint of racism and have used political correctness to suppress a whole range of opinions they dont agree with (in some ways it is far worse over there).
Trump is setting out to troll and enrage them and sending out a message - vote for me and this liberal tyranny is oved. No more will you be sacked for saying Niggardly (that did actually halpen or making an innocent remark that someone from a group favoured by metropolitan liberals takes wholly unreasonable exception to. We will be free again....
That is a very powerful message.
While out and out racists dont give a s*** ordinary people are quite intimidated by the culture that has grown up over the last decades where an innocently made remark can land you in almost as much trouble as robbing a bank (such as Alan Hansen being forced to make a grovelling apology and nearly being sacked for referrring to a player as being Coloured).
Trump is promising an end to this s***
(that said I do have concerns that he is a bit of a nutter!)
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Great. Hermine is likely to strengthen to a cat 1 hurricane before making landfall overnight in Florida. Looks like heavy rain for me Friday and maybe Saturday, but luckily no high winds.
Hey Tim
How many games is Romo's season going to last this year?
Oh...
It's back to back for Romo. If I was a fan I'd be screaming for the end of Romo's career.
Dak seems to be getting a ridiculous amount of hype but is it more down to having the best o-line in football, that running game and going against vanilla scheme defenses in preseason?
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
Saw an article on espn.com that basically said he is the real deal but not yet ready and will get creamed by the Giants' D. Looking forward to that game to see what the hype is about.
You don't think the Washington Native American Warriors will cream Dak?
Haven't seen much of their D this preseason. The Skins have a very interesting 3rd string running back called Kelley. Undrafted free agent. Running style looks mature ...
"The hope still lives, and the dream will never die"
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I deliberately don't play chess, because it would take over my life, otherwise.
Nothing wrong with an active hobby, Mr. F, especially one that involves socialising with other people. That is not having your life taken over, just enjoying it a bit more.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
As I said yesterday, one of my most REMAINIAN friends is now a bashful embarrassed REMAINIAN, and wishes he'd had the guts to vote LEAVE
Your tweets are becoming positively Churchillian dear old thing.
There was, literally, in the end, just one European nation which would not be bullied into submission by Brussels. And it was us. Britain.
The EU offers us nothing we don't already have. It can claim to offer democracy to nations that were ruled by dictators, but our democratic culture long predates the EU and is continuous. Claims that the EU guarantees a bit more maternity leave or better beaches seem trivial.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Some gentle prodding later - a mixture of things, the economy not going south, the Apple ruling and the feeling (true or not) that Germany and France are allowed to get away with state aid while Ireland and Britain are not, so injustice I guess.
He's not a fully blown unionist now, but doesn't want an independent Scotland to join the EU, especially if it means joining the Eurozone. After seeing the way Ireland have been treated for doing the same as so many others he doesn't think the EU would treat Scotland very well. He isn't sure how he would vote in a second independence referendum, he wants Scotland to be independent but not to join the EU once they achieve independence. A Yes vote would lead to that eventuality. Prefers being in the Union than being in the EU and doesn't believe that full independence will ever be on the cards because the SNP leadership are so tied to EU membership.
The latter part is another interesting concept, again could just be a straw in the wind.
I had the spreadsheet someone kindly loaded which had the predicted result for every consitutency if nationally it was 50/50.
Sunderland was 53/47 for national draw so I waited nervously with no TV just refreshing PB as soon as I caught up with messages - so about every minute.
As soon soon as Sunderland was in at 61/39 it looked like game over.
I think Newcastle was the more interesting result. We knew that Sunderland - where UKIP was on more than 2x its national share - was always going to be a great result. It was when Newcastle was only marginally for Remain that I piled in.
Ditto.
Gambler's paradox: I now wish I'd piled in far more.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
In what universe was Trump a benefit for the Leave camp? Everything is claimed as a benefit for Leave in retrospect.
I think Leave is a benefit for Trump, not the other way round.
I think Trump has a good chance against Clinton, but people need to remember 1) America is 70% white whereas Britain is 85%. 2) Trump is doing abysmally with minorities. Here Brexit got 25% of Black Britons whereas 97% of AA see him unfavourably and 3% unsure!
Yes, Clinton is still the favourite.
But, Brexit shows that the despised can win, and their votes count.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
You are assuming that nationalism necessarily brings hatred in its wake. It certainly did so in the 20th century but maybe that was because the nationalism was to a very significant extent based on ethnic and/or religious roots, rather than on democratic foundations. It does not follow at all that nationalism e.g. a feeling that one is British and some sort of pride in Britain, in what it has done and what it can do necessarily leads to hating others. That is a very old-fashioned view, as if the only sort of nationalism that could possibly exist is the sort that disfigured Europe in the last century.
I am tremendously proud of the team I have built and run at work. It does not mean that I hate other teams. I am proud of my family, both my forebears and my children. I love them more than other families. But it doesn't mean that I hate other families or other children.
This idea that nationalism is - and can only be - a bad thing needs challenging.
I agree with absolutely everything you are saying this evening on this.
The nation state and democracy was right at the heart of my reasons for voting Leave, as I put in my blogpost, but you put it far better than I do.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
You've gone funny.
Tolkien famously based the Hobbits on the stolid smallholders of rural Middle England, fighting and defeating the fiendish orcs, sorry Germans, on Flanders Field. He was in the war.
This also explains the landscapes of Mordor, the deep blazing mines, and so forth.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
It does feel like more and more people are moving towards acceptance of the result, a few that I know who wanted a second vote now seem embarrassed by the idea that a democratic vote should be overturned. This one was a real surprise though he was Remain's target market - young, university educated, Scottish, lives in London, tech sector, well traveled and Asian. For him to give up the cause so quickly and possibly over something quite trivial just shows how shallow the sentiment for remain really was.
10 years from now EU support will be down to 20% or so
Christian May Just under a year ago, Labour's @RichardBurgon spoke at a rally "hailing the challenge Venezuela posed to neoliberalism and privatisation."
Mr. Royale, indeed. For some people, they genuinely associate themselves with a class or lifestyle [I mean neither in a derogatory sense] than with a nation. The internet and cheap travel has helped to foster this sort of thing.
[Snipped]
Save that even such people rely on the nation to protect them from harm or on the nation's laws. Their class and lifestyle are dependant on the nation, even if they refuse to recognize this. When they berate multinational companies for not paying tax they are berating them for not paying tax to one country so that the money can be spent by that country for that country's benefit.
Look at the ages and jobs of those killed in the Bataclan massacre: young, mobile, many working in new techie industries, not all French. And yet, in the end, those who survived depended on the forces of law from a state, a nation - and it is the rulers of that nation who are now feeling the concerns of the people of that nation for not doing what the first duty of any state is - to protect them from enemies, at home and abroad.
And the same is true here and in other countries, no matter how mobile and tech savvy we may be, no matter how many nationalities are friends and relatives come from.
Those who think nations, tribes, groups are passé are the delusional ones, IMO. A dangerous delusion because if you do not have some recognizable political entity based on a territory how are you going to have democracy. There has to be a people, a demos and there have to be geographical boundaries to that demos.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
Internationalism is a form of imperialism, in which people are bound to obey bureaucracies.
Interesting — flying directly from London to Perth, WA is perfectly feasible but the demand doesn't exist as yet according to this Simon Calder article:
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Gosh, Ma'am, it does sound like you made the right decision. It used to be reckoned that to play bridge one only needed to be able to count to 13 four times, simultaneously but if you cannot recognise the four suits then you are stuffed from the outset.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
I was a bit nervous about the spreadsheet because there was no guarantee it would turn out to be accurate.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
In what universe was Trump a benefit for the Leave camp? Everything is claimed as a benefit for Leave in retrospect.
I think Leave is a benefit for Trump, not the other way round.
I think Trump has a good chance against Clinton, but people need to remember 1) America is 70% white whereas Britain is 85%. 2) Trump is doing abysmally with minorities. Here Brexit got 25% of Black Britons whereas 97% of AA see him unfavourably and 3% unsure!
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
I was a bit nervous about the spreadsheet because there was no guarantee it would turn out to be accurate.
I think you explained once how you put it together, but I've forgotten. Can you remind us?
Mr. Royale, indeed. For some people, they genuinely associate themselves with a class or lifestyle [I mean neither in a derogatory sense] than with a nation. The internet and cheap travel has helped to foster this sort of thing.
[Snipped]
Save that even such people rely on the nation to protect them from harm or on the nation's laws. Their class and lifestyle are dependant on the nation, even if they refuse to recognize this. When they berate multinational companies for not paying tax they are berating them for not paying tax to one country so that the money can be spent by that country for that country's benefit.
Look at the ages and jobs of those killed in the Bataclan massacre: young, mobile, many working in new techie industries, not all French. And yet, in the end, those who survived depended on the forces of law from a state, a nation - and it is the rulers of that nation who are now feeling the concerns of the people of that nation for not doing what the first duty of any state is - to protect them from enemies, at home and abroad.
And the same is true here and in other countries, no matter how mobile and tech savvy we may be, no matter how many nationalities are friends and relatives come from.
Those who think nations, tribes, groups are passé are the delusional ones, IMO. A dangerous delusion because if you do not have some recognizable political entity based on a territory how are you going to have democracy. There has to be a people, a demos and there have to be geographical boundaries to that demos.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
Internationalism is a form of imperialism, in which people are bound to obey bureaucracies.
An excellent, and pithy, way of putting it.
Pithy, but bollocks. It should give us pause for thought that the generation that created these international institutions was the generation that fought and won WW2. It's worked out pretty well since then, certainly better than what preceded it.
I don't know what domestic BBC coverage of the presidential election is like, but here it is awful - biased and selective.
Yesterday morning BBC World Service had 2 commentators on discussing the week in US politics. The last questions was whether they felt the race had tightened. The first one said yes, and it's now closer than he is comfortable with. The other one said it had and he didn't like it. Both were Americans working at UK universities.
In general they cover Clinton low key and factual. With Trump every story seems to be in the style of "Can you believe what this crazy guy has done/ said now?"
You expect that from liberal hotbeds CNN and MsNBC but the beeb?
Sky are just the same - and every paper inc The Times. It's so tediously biased that I rarely even bother watching or reading it now.
There are a few pro Trump commentators eg Simon Heffer in the Mail and Katie Hopkins in the Mailonline and on LBC and the Telegraph covers him reasonably fairly but given outside of UKIP voters most Brits can't stand Trump the coverage is bound to reflect that
trump says crazy racist things on purpose. Most people should hate him
Overall Trump was a benefit for the LEAVE campaign (so was Obama of course but he didn't mean it).
The left should hateTrump since he is the antithesis of all they stand for.
And FYI - Trump says lot less racist things than CNN would have you believe.
In what universe was Trump a benefit for the Leave camp? Everything is claimed as a benefit for Leave in retrospect.
I think Leave is a benefit for Trump, not the other way round.
I think Trump has a good chance against Clinton, but people need to remember 1) America is 70% white whereas Britain is 85%. 2) Trump is doing abysmally with minorities. Here Brexit got 25% of Black Britons whereas 97% of AA see him unfavourably and 3% unsure!
On current trends, Britain is about 20 years behind America on (1) and White Britons may be in a minority by the time I retire.
Thankfully, on (2), we don't seem to have quite the same race relations problem.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Gosh, Ma'am, it does sound like you made the right decision. It used to be reckoned that to play bridge one only needed to be able to count to 13 four times, simultaneously but if you cannot recognise the four suits then you are stuffed from the outset.
Did you play backgammon at all?
I used to play a lot of backgammon - a great game, but don't know anyone who does.
My mum loved Mahjong - I learned it as a kid but it's so 70s nowadays.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Which is what makes me proud to be British.
And that is an emotion that a great many of the elite (and some on here) just do not comprehend. Which is why they lost.
Much fuss used to be made, especially by Labour supporters, that Cameron was out of touch. I rather fancy that in the end they were proved correct. Cameron actually didn't understand the people of these islands.
Mr. Royale, indeed. For some people, they genuinely associate themselves with a class or lifestyle [I mean neither in a derogatory sense] than with a nation. The internet and cheap travel has helped to foster this sort of thing.
[Snipped]
Save that even such people rely on the nation to protect them from harm or on the nation's laws. Their class and lifestyle are dependant on the nation, even if they refuse to recognize this. When they berate multinational companies for not paying tax they are berating them for not paying tax to one country so that the money can be spent by that country for that country's benefit.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
Internationalism is a form of imperialism, in which people are bound to obey bureaucracies.
An excellent, and pithy, way of putting it.
Pithy, but bollocks. It should give us pause for thought that the generation that created these international institutions was the generation that fought and won WW2. It's worked out pretty well since then, certainly better than what preceded it.
We should be more humble.
I'd argue that inter-national cooperation (i.e. quite literally, cooperation between sovereign nations) is different to internationalism, whereby government is exercised at an international level.
NATO would be an example of the former, and the EU the latter.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Yup. Tolkien caught that British characteristic perfectly. The modest yet flinty yeomen of the shire - who will not be budged, once they are in a truculent mood. As Oliver Cromwell put it (and he won the Civil War by relying on the same people):
"I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that you call a Gentleman and is nothing else"
And I think that 2016 and the events of June will in time be seen by historians as as significant an event as the English Civil War.
It is so great when you read of the latest euro insanity coming out of the EU to instead of feeling varying degrees of irritation or even anger think, contentedly, we did it, we are leaving, what a great time to be alive
Mr. Royale, indeed. For some people, they genuinely associate themselves with a class or lifestyle [I mean neither in a derogatory sense] than with a nation. The internet and cheap travel has helped to foster this sort of thing.
[Snipped]
Save that even such people rely on the nation to protect them from harm or on the nation's laws. Their class and lifestyle are dependant on the nation, even if they refuse to recognize this. When they berate multinational companies for not paying tax they are berating them for not paying tax to one country so that the money can be spent by that country for that country's benefit.
Look at the ages and jobs of those killed in the Bataclan massacre: young, mobile, many working in new techie industries, not all French. And yet, in the end, those who survived depended on the forces of law from a state, a nation - and it is the rulers of that nation who are now feeling the concerns of the people of that nation for not doing what the first duty of any state is - to protect them from enemies, at home and abroad.
And the same is true here and in other countries, no matter how mobile and tech savvy we may be, no matter how many nationalities are friends and relatives come from.
Those who think nations, tribes, groups are passé are the delusional ones, IMO. A dangerous delusion because if you do not have some recognizable political entity based on a territory how are you going to have democracy. There has to be a people, a demos and there have to be geographical boundaries to that demos.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
Internationalism is a form of imperialism, in which people are bound to obey bureaucracies.
An excellent, and pithy, way of putting it.
Robert Harris' Imperium is a great book, especially when Tiro is considering Roman Republican elections. He comments about how moving it is to see aristocrats queuing up with peasants to cast their votes. His point is not that their influence is equal. Of course not. The rich have massive influence. But, the votes of the poor still count. The rich have to sweat when running for election. And government by international bureaucrats removes all that.
The generation that created the EU is the generation that LOST the Second World War: guilty Germans, inept Italians, wounded prideful Frenchmen.
Churchill was instrumental. Macmillan, Heath et al bore the personal scars of war that led them towards joining the EU.
Ours is a fat, arrogant, spoilt generation, all too quick to adopt their victories as our own. We should listen more to the lessons they tried to teach us.
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
I was a bit nervous about the spreadsheet because there was no guarantee it would turn out to be accurate.
It was amazing - a lot of hard work obviously went into it and I just hope AndyJS made a suitable killing.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Which is what makes me proud to be British.
And that is an emotion that a great many of the elite (and some on here) just do not comprehend. Which is why they lost.
Much fuss used to be made, especially by Labour supporters, that Cameron was out of touch. I rather fancy that in the end they were proved correct. Cameron actually didn't understand the people of these islands.
I think Cameron was (and is) patriotic - he cracked up when describing his love for this country during his resignation speech, and also did so at Tory conference last year - but, in the end, he turned out to just be a creature of the Establishment: able to convince himself that whatever was the status quo was also in the national interest.
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
I was a bit nervous about the spreadsheet because there was no guarantee it would turn out to be accurate.
I think you explained once how you put it together, but I've forgotten. Can you remind us?
Using census data (8 variables) plus the UKIP share at the 2014 Euro elections. I spent about 6 weeks constantly modifying it until I thought it was as accurate as possible. The variables were White British, Non-White, Age 16-32, Level 1 Qualifications, Level 4 Qualifications and above, Professionals, Agricultural workers, UKIP share at 2014 Euro elections.
Hmm, so one of the most bitter remoaners I know personally (more than anyone on here) has moved from anger last week all the way through to acceptance today. Got an apology message just now saying he's sorry for being a dick about it and hopes that there are no hard feelings, we all have to work together now etc...
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
I live for these kind of anecdotes. The Remainers on my TL are mellowing out as well.
As I said yesterday, one of my most REMAINIAN friends is now a bashful embarrassed REMAINIAN, and wishes he'd had the guts to vote LEAVE
Your tweets are becoming positively Churchillian dear old thing.
There was, literally, in the end, just one European nation which would not be bullied into submission by Brussels. And it was us. Britain.
You could just as easily swap Brussels for Philip of Spain, Naloleon, The Kaiser or Hitler. There is a pattern
In the BBC's referendum coverage, Laura Kuensberg gives the very first tiny indication that LEAVE might have won, at about 11.30pm, when she discloses rumours from Sunderland...
The Sunderland returning officer seemed to be very upset at the result as she announced it.
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
I was a bit nervous about the spreadsheet because there was no guarantee it would turn out to be accurate.
I think you explained once how you put it together, but I've forgotten. Can you remind us?
Using census data (8 variables) plus the UKIP share at the 2014 Euro elections. I spent about 6 weeks constantly modifying it until I thought it was as accurate as possible. The variables were White British, Non-White, Age 16-32, Level 1 Qualifications, Level 4 Qualifications and above, Professionals, Agricultural workers, UKIP share at 2014 Euro elections.
The generation that created the EU is the generation that LOST the Second World War: guilty Germans, inept Italians, wounded prideful Frenchmen.
Churchill was instrumental. Macmillan, Heath et al bore the personal scars of war that led them towards joining the EU.
Ours is a fat, arrogant, spoilt generation, all too quick to adopt their victories as our own. We should listen more to the lessons they tried to teach us.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Yup. Tolkien caught that British characteristic perfectly. The modest yet flinty yeomen of the shire - who will not be budged, once they are in a truculent mood. As Oliver Cromwell put it (and he won the Civil War by relying on the same people):
"I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that you call a Gentleman and is nothing else"
And I think that 2016 and the events of June will in time be seen by historians as as significant an event as the English Civil War.
It is so great when you read of the latest euro insanity coming out of the EU to instead of feeling varying degrees of irritation or even anger think, contentedly, we did it, we are leaving, what a great time to be alive
Your own countrymen are more than able to fill the void and ensure our government continues to be conducted in a way that enrages you.
I was lucky enough to be at the Colchester Borough Count (53.5% Leave) in the wee hours of the 24th of June, but part of me wishes I'd been at home with PB and AndyJS's spreadsheet in front of me, making oodles of cash.
That said, I don't know if I'd have had the nerve. I didn't believe it when I saw the Sunderland result on the TV in the corner of the gym where the count was, or when I was driving home at 3am and Vince Cable was basically conceding defeat on Radio 4. I wasn't even convinced at 20 to 5 when Dimbleby announced the BBC was calling it for Leave. Some time after that but before the final, official result I realised we really had done it, drowsily high-fived my Dad, and went to bed.
It was the most profitable betting evening of my life.
SpreadEx was very generous, and had Remain as favourite for far, far too long.
The level of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me. @AndyJS 's spreadsheet was a masterpiece - but prior even to that was understanding what was needed to make sense of the results as they arrived in real time. From comments made by those following the MSM, this site was well ahead in interpretation of the results.
I was a bit nervous about the spreadsheet because there was no guarantee it would turn out to be accurate.
I think you explained once how you put it together, but I've forgotten. Can you remind us?
Using census data (8 variables) plus the UKIP share at the 2014 Euro elections. I spent about 6 weeks constantly modifying it until I thought it was as accurate as possible. The variables were White British, Non-White, Age 16-32, Level 1 Qualifications, Level 4 Qualifications and above, Professionals, Agricultural workers, UKIP share at 2014 Euro elections.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Which is what makes me proud to be British.
And that is an emotion that a great many of the elite (and some on here) just do not comprehend. Which is why they lost.
Much fuss used to be made, especially by Labour supporters, that Cameron was out of touch. I rather fancy that in the end they were proved correct. Cameron actually didn't understand the people of these islands.
I think Cameron was (and is) patriotic - he cracked up when describing his love for this country during his resignation speech, and also did so at Tory conference last year - but, in the end, he turned out to just be a creature of the Establishment: able to convince himself that whatever was the status quo was also in the national interest.
Yep- the pro EU civil servants got hold of him,Theresa needs a clear out.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Which is what makes me proud to be British.
And that is an emotion that a great many of the elite (and some on here) just do not comprehend. Which is why they lost.
Much fuss used to be made, especially by Labour supporters, that Cameron was out of touch. I rather fancy that in the end they were proved correct. Cameron actually didn't understand the people of these islands.
I think Cameron was (and is) patriotic - he cracked up when describing his love for this country during his resignation speech, and also did so at Tory conference last year - but, in the end, he turned out to just be a creature of the Establishment: able to convince himself that whatever was the status quo was also in the national interest.
I think he was right in that it was in our national economic interest, as many people have pointed out.
I've noticed that we tend to talk almost exclusively in terms of economic and transactional terms whenever we've dealt with EU matters; migrants are a net economic benefit etc. It's a very technocratic world view.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Gosh, Ma'am, it does sound like you made the right decision. It used to be reckoned that to play bridge one only needed to be able to count to 13 four times, simultaneously but if you cannot recognise the four suits then you are stuffed from the outset.
Did you play backgammon at all?
I used to play a lot of backgammon - a great game, but don't know anyone who does.
My mum loved Mahjong - I learned it as a kid but it's so 70s nowadays.
Miss. P, I used to play Backgammon at the bridge club whilst waiting for people to turn up but more recently some of us used to play in the village pub on a Sunday evening. Its a good game for fun over a beer or two, but it can get expensive when you start turning that gambling dice.
As for Mahjong, my grandparents generation used to play it (great uncle Louis bought a set back with him after a spell with the China Fleet before WW1), but I have not seen any kwailos play it since I was a child. When I was in Hong Kong in the seventies the locals played it like mad (I used to fall asleep to the click-click-click of the tiles from a game beneath my window). I expect they still do.
I don't think any of those of us with an international outlook are advocating anarchy as a solution, as you seem to be implying! Personally, I'd like to see devolution of government, both upwards and downwards, with supranational entities administering supranational issues and local entities administering local issues. Nationalism, with its rigid insistence on an us and a them, is, alongside religion, what keeps the fires of hatred burning.
You are assuming that nationalism necessarily brings hatred in its wake. It certainly did so in the 20th century but maybe that was because the nationalism was to a very significant extent based on ethnic and/or religious roots, rather than on democratic foundations. It does not follow at all that nationalism e.g. a feeling that one is British and some sort of pride in Britain, in what it has done and what it can do necessarily leads to hating others. That is a very old-fashioned view, as if the only sort of nationalism that could possibly exist is the sort that disfigured Europe in the last century.
I am tremendously proud of the team I have built and run at work. It does not mean that I hate other teams. I am proud of my family, both my forebears and my children. I love them more than other families. But it doesn't mean that I hate other families or other children.
This idea that nationalism is - and can only be - a bad thing needs challenging.
Your justification for nationalism sounds very much like similar appeals made by the advocates of communism - yes, it's been a disaster so far, but that's just because it's been the wrong sort of communism/nationalism. If people would only do it properly, it'd be fantastic!
Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with being proud of personal achievements, but that has little relation to the vicarious pride of nationalism.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen. One of the English periods each week was given over to a bridge lesson, along with after school competitions and events. By the time a chap got to the XVIth form bridge seemed to take up most of the time that was not already occupied by sport. I suppose we must have done some actual work but I honestly don't recall doing much.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Gosh, Ma'am, it does sound like you made the right decision. It used to be reckoned that to play bridge one only needed to be able to count to 13 four times, simultaneously but if you cannot recognise the four suits then you are stuffed from the outset.
Did you play backgammon at all?
I used to play a lot of backgammon - a great game, but don't know anyone who does.
My mum loved Mahjong - I learned it as a kid but it's so 70s nowadays.
Miss. P, I used to play Backgammon at the bridge club whilst waiting for people to turn up but more recently some of us used to play in the village pub on a Sunday evening. Its a good game for fun over a beer or two, but it can get expensive when you start turning that gambling dice.
As for Mahjong, my grandparents generation used to play it (great uncle Louis bought a set back with him after a spell with the China Fleet before WW1), but I have not seen any kwailos play it since I was a child. When I was in Hong Kong in the seventies the locals played it like mad (I used to fall asleep to the click-click-click of the tiles from a game beneath my window). I expect they still do.
We play mah-jong every so often in my family, but I found out recently that the rules we use are nothing like the ones most people do. Never played backgammon though.
I doubt the Saudi figure can be trusted very much. I suspect it's probably higher than the UK in reality.
Indeed. Family "shame" will prevent the vast majority of people complaining/reporting.
It's like their stats on child abuse which show the nation with the most sexually frustrated and repressed men on earth has virtually no problem with it. 'Cos they're all so pious, innit.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Gosh, Ma'am, it does sound like you made the right decision. It used to be reckoned that to play bridge one only needed to be able to count to 13 four times, simultaneously but if you cannot recognise the four suits then you are stuffed from the outset.
Did you play backgammon at all?
I used to play a lot of backgammon - a great game, but don't know anyone who does.
My mum loved Mahjong - I learned it as a kid but it's so 70s nowadays.
Miss. P, I used to play Backgammon at the bridge club whilst waiting for people to turn up but more recently some of us used to play in the village pub on a Sunday evening. Its a good game for fun over a beer or two, but it can get expensive when you start turning that gambling dice.
As for Mahjong, my grandparents generation used to play it (great uncle Louis bought a set back with him after a spell with the China Fleet before WW1), but I have not seen any kwailos play it since I was a child. When I was in Hong Kong in the seventies the locals played it like mad (I used to fall asleep to the click-click-click of the tiles from a game beneath my window). I expect they still do.
We play mah-jong every so often in my family, but I found out recently that the rules we use are nothing like the ones most people do. Never played backgammon though.
However played, MJ is essentially a gambling game, 90% luck, where you live in hope of the infrequent mega scoring hand that wipes out an evening of small wins by your opponents. Hence why so many Chinese love it so.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Yup. Tolkien caught that British characteristic perfectly. The modest yet flinty yeomen of the shire - who will not be budged, once they are in a truculent mood. As Oliver Cromwell put it (and he won the Civil War by relying on the same people):
"I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that you call a Gentleman and is nothing else"
And I think that 2016 and the events of June will in time be seen by historians as as significant an event as the English Civil War.
It is so great when you read of the latest euro insanity coming out of the EU to instead of feeling varying degrees of irritation or even anger think, contentedly, we did it, we are leaving, what a great time to be alive
Your own countrymen are more than able to fill the void and ensure our government continues to be conducted in a way that enrages you.
I can't put it better than Sean T already has:
"Life will not be perfect outside the EU. By any means. But from now on me and my fellow Britons can elect and dismiss the people who make these laws, and get them reversed if we so decide. We are a self governing nation again.
Not many regretful Brexiteers on here. Buyer's remorse in short supply.
Apple just makes me more chuffed we are buggering off.
I'm another chuffed Leaver.
I'm OVER THE MOON! My company is loving it, never had it so good.
I'm overjoyed by Brexit now. Delayed gratification, but very real.
We did something very very special. The British people turned around and said Fuck You, We want democracy. The only European people who could not be cowed by Brussels bullying: us.
It proves one of the great verities of global politics remains true.
You don't invade Russia. You don't go to war in Afghanistan. And you don't fuck with the Brits.
The Brits are the mildest of people, who maybe surprise themselves when they stand up to bullies. Like the inhabitants of The Shire.
Yup. Tolkien caught that British characteristic perfectly. The modest yet flinty yeomen of the shire - who will not be budged, once they are in a truculent mood. As Oliver Cromwell put it (and he won the Civil War by relying on the same people):
"I had rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that you call a Gentleman and is nothing else"
And I think that 2016 and the events of June will in time be seen by historians as as significant an event as the English Civil War.
It is so great when you read of the latest euro insanity coming out of the EU to instead of feeling varying degrees of irritation or even anger think, contentedly, we did it, we are leaving, what a great time to be alive
My feelings entirely. There was some annoying news from Brussels yesterday, and my immediate and normalised reaction was Oh god, we just have to submit, we are helpless, and then I realised: NO, WE'RE OUT. And I felt a mild elation.
Life will not be perfect outside the EU. By any means. But from now on me and my fellow Britons can elect and dismiss the people who make these laws, and get them reversed if we so decide. We are a self governing nation again.
Joy.
I can't. I live in a very safe Tory constituency, so my vote counts for nothing. Nor can I vote for a new head of state, as citizens of other countries vote for a president. My vote in the EU elections was the only one that could actually make a difference.
I used to work in a department where there was a thriving Bridge community. They played on Monday evenings. Tuesday mornings at work was rendered hideous by the analyses & recriminations.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
Then you have missed out on one of life's great intellectual pleasures and challenges. At my school we were actually taught bridge from the age of thirteen.
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
I believe I was wiser than I knew. I have a total inability to recognise cards for what they are, which is odd considering I'm quite good at seeing patterns in general. But Clubs/Spades? Red cards/Black cards? Nah, mistake it time after time.
Gosh, Ma'am, it does sound like you made the right decision. It used to be reckoned that to play bridge one only needed to be able to count to 13 four times, simultaneously but if you cannot recognise the four suits then you are stuffed from the outset.
Did you play backgammon at all?
I used to play a lot of backgammon - a great game, but don't know anyone who does.
My mum loved Mahjong - I learned it as a kid but it's so 70s nowadays.
Miss. P, I used to play Backgammon at the bridge club whilst waiting for people to turn up but more recently some of us used to play in the village pub on a Sunday evening. Its a good game for fun over a beer or two, but it can get expensive when you start turning that gambling dice.
As for Mahjong, my grandparents generation used to play it (great uncle Louis bought a set back with him after a spell with the China Fleet before WW1), but I have not seen any kwailos play it since I was a child. When I was in Hong Kong in the seventies the locals played it like mad (I used to fall asleep to the click-click-click of the tiles from a game beneath my window). I expect they still do.
We play mah-jong every so often in my family, but I found out recently that the rules we use are nothing like the ones most people do. Never played backgammon though.
However played, MJ is essentially a gambling game, 90% luck, where you live in hope of the infrequent mega scoring hand that wipes out an evening of small wins by your opponents. Hence why so many Chinese love it so.
In the BBC's referendum coverage, Laura Kuensberg gives the very first tiny indication that LEAVE might have won, at about 11.30pm, when she discloses rumours from Sunderland...
The Sunderland returning officer seemed to be very upset at the result as she announced it.
Comments
English physicians are proper upstanding fellows. They'd never consider a cream, much less a creme. Whatever your complaint, cold baths, leeches, and a bit of the country air won't hurt. Nothing wrong with you at all, but just to be on the safe side let's see you next week.
I resolved within weeks never to learn to play Bridge.
edited to try untangle blockquotes
I'm truly astonished, he's Scottish in London and went to the EU rally after the vote and has been sharing all of that ScotLond rubbish at any given moment.
I think the Apple ruling has shaken his love of the EU quite badly and he no longer wants an independent Scotland to be in the EU, I can't think of anything else that would make him move to acceptance (and possibly unionism) in such a short space of time.
I'll try and gently prod for the real answer, but as ever could just be a straw in the wind.
JUST IN: Hillary Clinton raises over $140 million in August for her campaign and the Democratic party https://t.co/XXWyWzsJhe
Will have to see how he fares in the regular season and when teams start to get some tape on him.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/welsh-ukip-surge-has-labour-lost-valleys
"Peterson began reading Marx as a young man, and agrees with much of the philosophy. He sees himself as “very left-wing”, and believes Ukip is the truly left-wing party. “They [Labour] are not thinking of the people who are claiming the benefits, who are facing the hardships. The Labour Party have left a [vacuum] and I think that’s where Ukip is growing.”
Peterson’s political journey is a familiar one in South Wales. Once a Labour heartland where some constituencies would weigh Labour votes rather than count them, the Valleys are now at the epicentre of Ukip’s surge."
I take your point on the recriminations though. Analysis on what went well/badly is fine and necessary to learn and improve one's game (even after 50 years) but some people do descend into recrimination even at the table, which makes life horrid for everyone.
That's what a fan would say, I suspect.
Speaking of quarterbacks who are retired (or should be) and have had back or neck issues...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEw4pyf3aeA
https://twitter.com/FBillMcMorris/status/771399412660703233
Will any government do anything before it becomes the worst public health panic since AIDS ?
In America they supposedly are having an election but no one cares.
My Packers may get a look at Dak at Lambeau in Week 6. I still think Dallas may try and sign a vet who may get the nod over Dak if they don't think he's ready yet.
1) America is 70% white whereas Britain is 85%.
2) Trump is doing abysmally with minorities. Here Brexit got 25% of Black Britons whereas 97% of AA see him unfavourably and 3% unsure!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eGIaWss3Y4
The issue is that liberal establishment types get apoplectic at the merest hint of racism and have used political correctness to suppress a whole range of opinions they dont agree with (in some ways it is far worse over there).
Trump is setting out to troll and enrage them and sending out a message - vote for me and this liberal tyranny is oved. No more will you be sacked for saying Niggardly (that did actually halpen or making an innocent remark that someone from a group favoured by metropolitan liberals takes wholly unreasonable exception to. We will be free again....
That is a very powerful message.
While out and out racists dont give a s*** ordinary people are quite intimidated by the culture that has grown up over the last decades where an innocently made remark can land you in almost as much trouble as robbing a bank (such as Alan Hansen being forced to make a grovelling apology and nearly being sacked for referrring to a player as being Coloured).
Trump is promising an end to this s***
(that said I do have concerns that he is a bit of a nutter!)
He said it was akin to a brick on an elastic band. You can stretch it so far, then it smacks you in the face.
The same applies to our tolerance. It looks like we'll endure all manner of nonsense, then we slap down with style.
He's not a fully blown unionist now, but doesn't want an independent Scotland to join the EU, especially if it means joining the Eurozone. After seeing the way Ireland have been treated for doing the same as so many others he doesn't think the EU would treat Scotland very well. He isn't sure how he would vote in a second independence referendum, he wants Scotland to be independent but not to join the EU once they achieve independence. A Yes vote would lead to that eventuality. Prefers being in the Union than being in the EU and doesn't believe that full independence will ever be on the cards because the SNP leadership are so tied to EU membership.
The latter part is another interesting concept, again could just be a straw in the wind.
Gambler's paradox: I now wish I'd piled in far more.
But, Brexit shows that the despised can win, and their votes count.
The nation state and democracy was right at the heart of my reasons for voting Leave, as I put in my blogpost, but you put it far better than I do.
Just under a year ago, Labour's @RichardBurgon spoke at a rally "hailing the challenge Venezuela posed to neoliberalism and privatisation."
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/direct-flights-heathrow-tehran-british-airways-you-won-t-find-flying-out-of-london-a7220781.html
Did you play backgammon at all?
http://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1144-59ClintonTrumpFavorability.pdf
To save time
The columns are : Clinton now: Clinton Early August, Trump Now, Trump early August.
Clinton has lost support every where. Trump has gained on non-white (mainly with the blacks).
Whites......... 30-68 35-64 44-53 44-53
Nonwhites... 62-34 73-23 17-79 15-82
...Blacks...... 80-19 84-10 12-84 4-91
...Hispanics. 55-40 71-28 18-80 18-79
I think you explained once how you put it together, but I've forgotten. Can you remind us?
We should be more humble.
Thankfully, on (2), we don't seem to have quite the same race relations problem.
My mum loved Mahjong - I learned it as a kid but it's so 70s nowadays.
Much fuss used to be made, especially by Labour supporters, that Cameron was out of touch. I rather fancy that in the end they were proved correct. Cameron actually didn't understand the people of these islands.
NATO would be an example of the former, and the EU the latter.
It is so great when you read of the latest euro insanity coming out of the EU to instead of feeling varying degrees of irritation or even anger think, contentedly, we did it, we are leaving, what a great time to be alive
Heavy rain without thunder is unusual.
Ours is a fat, arrogant, spoilt generation, all too quick to adopt their victories as our own. We should listen more to the lessons they tried to teach us.
Thanks. An excellent job.
I've noticed that we tend to talk almost exclusively in terms of economic and transactional terms whenever we've dealt with EU matters; migrants are a net economic benefit etc. It's a very technocratic world view.
As for Mahjong, my grandparents generation used to play it (great uncle Louis bought a set back with him after a spell with the China Fleet before WW1), but I have not seen any kwailos play it since I was a child. When I was in Hong Kong in the seventies the locals played it like mad (I used to fall asleep to the click-click-click of the tiles from a game beneath my window). I expect they still do.
Suicides per 100,000 people per year
Korea: 29
India: 21
Russia 19
Japan: 18
US: 12
France: 12
Turkey: 8
UK: 6
Israel: 6
Saudi: 0.4
(WHO)
Otherwise, there's nothing wrong with being proud of personal achievements, but that has little relation to the vicarious pride of nationalism.
It's like their stats on child abuse which show the nation with the most sexually frustrated and repressed men on earth has virtually no problem with it. 'Cos they're all so pious, innit.
Edited to put 'shame' in quotes.
"Life will not be perfect outside the EU. By any means. But from now on me and my fellow Britons can elect and dismiss the people who make these laws, and get them reversed if we so decide. We are a self governing nation again.
Joy."
new thread
I saw it 4x at the pictures.
I thought Four Lions was dull bar a couple of good scenes.
https://youtu.be/3B7HG8_xbDw