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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s union plans are about culture as much as cash

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited September 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s union plans are about culture as much as cash

Lord Collins’ interim proposals for Labour’s relationship with its affiliated unions were published yesterday. They don’t settle the issue of union funding and affiliation to Labour. In fact it provides more questions than answers.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Where's McBride in this photo?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Hmmh. Let's not talk about the funding issue, but bury the topic in a lot of blether about culture and new ways of working together.

    Do I spot some long grass over there?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    edited September 2013

    Where's McBride in this photo?

    He's whispering through the earpiece hidden in that bloke's turban.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Where's McBride in this photo?

    He's whispering into the earpiece hidden in that bloke's turban.
    Nah, only schoolgirls have earpieces hidden in their turbans

    (c) SeanT
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    Where's McBride in this photo?

    McBride took the photo. It has been cropped.

    The missing parts will be revealed on the Mail's website on Sunday.

    The man on Miliband's left has his eyes fixed on the incriminating evidence.

  • It is lucky there are no elections planned for the next couple of years, which gives Labour free rein for this navel-gazing nonsense about which precisely no-one outside Westminster gives a damn.
  • I don't get this bit:
    Forget this suggestion they’ll have more money to donate with – their union executives and members won’t allow them and future spending caps prohibit it.
    Unions won't allow any money from their political funds to go to Labour? Why not? And what's the thing about spending caps?
    The fact that only 10-15% of affiliated union members will want to opt-in and join the Labour Party will lead to millions of pounds less money for the party. The flipside is that it will mean more members and in theory greater activism.
    It'll be a higher membership fee than the current affiliation fee, and the other side of more members and greater activism is more fund-raising, especially now the party can hit their guys up for donations directly. What's the evidence that the net effect will be lower?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,494
    Interesting analysis - I'd not read the report yet, and it does sound a radical change. If it works, it will make Labour the first major party to address the collective problem of decay that all the major parties are experiencing. It's brave in BOTH senses of the word, the usual and the Yes Minister sense.
  • When someone says "it isn't the money, it's the principle", it's the money.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    The Labour conference is going to be fun.
  • Off topic, there's something deeply ironic about an article with the sub-heading "When Labour returns to office, Ed Miliband must ensure that the errors of the last generation are not repeated by his" being written by a member of the younger generation as part of a deliberate attempt to spike the book launch of a hated rival:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/19/tony-blair-gordon-brown-war-labour
  • If you believe Mansons ridiculous blurb then you will also believe Balls did not really know McBride.
    It is called .. being gullible
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    "For example Collins proposes having primaries to select candidates in dwindling constituency parties."

    Henry, how does that relate to and work with AWS, approved candidates list or imposition of candidates by the Party?

    In a dwindling constituency party, it is easy for one determined faction to gain control of its offices (e.g. Militant) and so dominate the candidate selection. Surely the answer is to enlarge the constituency party. Also who will be entitled to vote in the Primary: only valid members of that constituency party or any member of the electorate of that constituency? Please clarify.
  • antifrank said:

    When someone says "it isn't the money, it's the principle", it's the money.

    Its always the money, especially in politics.
    On another note, my hatred for Gordon Brown, something that I've thought was irrational at times, now appears to be justified. He really was mad, and bad.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited September 2013
    FPT
    AveryLP said:


    Oh I don't know. tim does have this to play with:

    http://bit.ly/1gEYnx6

    I watched Mock the Week last night. I genuinely thought that link was going to lead to this

    http://www.focus-home.com/index.php?rub=news&id=406
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FPT

    @JosiasJessop

    We are about to witness what looks like the formation of another coalition in Germany, albeit with a strong leading party and Chancellor. Not sure how it plays out regarding enaction of manifesto promises or whether the electorate get a watered-down version of what the country really needs.

    I did work for a while in East Germany under a totalitarian regime and that was an experience I would not want to repeat.

    @MorrisDancer

    Politics is the art of the possible and in a democracy we are in the hands of the electorate - so if there is a hung parliament then a coalition will always result in compromise of one sort or another. The UK's problem is that it had not experienced a coalition for some 65 years and the minor party had an agenda that consisted more of political ambitions that were not was needed by the country at that moment in time.

    We have seen how Blair, Brown, Mandelson and Campbell hi-jacked a desperate Labour party, tried to control and manipulate the media and imposed their placemen in constituencies where the electorate's economic circumstances was something totally foreign to them. As is usual in such regimes, it all fell apart due to personal ambitions and jealousies.
  • Long time ATL lurker, first time poster! Going off-topic (apologies?), Polly Toynbee writes this morning that she asked Andrew Hawkins, chair of ComRes, "Would he stake his reputation on Labour winning most seats". She has him answering "Yes, I would."

    There appears to be no place for spin in this exchange - has Hawkins' view already been discussed here? It sort of seems a big call to me...
  • Interesting analysis - I'd not read the report yet, and it does sound a radical change. If it works, it will make Labour the first major party to address the collective problem of decay that all the major parties are experiencing. It's brave in BOTH senses of the word, the usual and the Yes Minister sense.

    It sounds like an interesting first step - set out a general direction, along with a list of outstanding issues. Unfortunately, it sounds as if the latter list is rather long. It does look as though the change was preannounced too early.

    If the unions were truly democratic, they'd put sections on the forms saying whether members want to be associate members of the Conservatives, Lib Dems, Greens, UKIP etc as well as Labour. After all, most of the members of most unions are not Labour voters.

    As long as they still have that sort of thing for just Labour, the link between unions and the Labour Party would still be too strong. There needs to be a total decoupling.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    antifrank said:

    Off topic, there's something deeply ironic about an article with the sub-heading "When Labour returns to office, Ed Miliband must ensure that the errors of the last generation are not repeated by his" being written by a member of the younger generation as part of a deliberate attempt to spike the book launch of a hated rival:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/19/tony-blair-gordon-brown-war-labour

    antifrank

    I hope you noticed that the subtitle to the article differs in one very significant detail from Wegg-Prosser's concluding text:

    Ed Miliband defeated David Miliband in 2010 by making Blair's political brand toxic and (very cutely) putting his brother on the wrong side of this argument. When Labour returns to office, as it could do in less than two years, Ed will no doubt consider how the errors of the last generation should not be repeated by his

    The Guardian sub-editor has assumed that Miliband would lead Labour if the party were returned to office. Wegg-Prosser hasn't.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Is Manson actually Peter Oborne ?
  • Dafel said:

    Long time ATL lurker, first time poster! Going off-topic (apologies?), Polly Toynbee writes this morning that she asked Andrew Hawkins, chair of ComRes, "Would he stake his reputation on Labour winning most seats". She has him answering "Yes, I would."

    There appears to be no place for spin in this exchange - has Hawkins' view already been discussed here? It sort of seems a big call to me...

    Welcome Dafel.

    When you consider that it would only take a swing of about 2% for Labour to become the largest party it doesn't seem like that big a call. There would have to be a very definite shift in the mood of the country to prevent it - and I'm sure if there were such a shift Hawkins would have the evidence of it in his opinion polls to change his view.
  • Scott_P said:

    FPT

    AveryLP said:


    Oh I don't know. tim does have this to play with:

    http://bit.ly/1gEYnx6

    I watched Mock the Week last night. I genuinely thought that link was going to lead to this

    http://www.focus-home.com/index.php?rub=news&id=406
    My nephew used to love an earlier version of that game! It may seem like a bit of a joke, but it's shifted hundreds of thousands of copies.

    On another note: welcome, Dafel.


  • Firstly, many thanks for all the wishes of support that I have received on PB.

    'Law makers should not be law breakers' is a sensible starting point. But there are obviously offfences which cannot sensibly disqualify a candidate.

    Where to draw the line? I received the maximum sanction for a procedural error, which was less than the penalty for overstaying time in a paid car-park. I viewed the offence as trivial, and I am sure would have been struck out in any case had I chosen to spend 12 days defending myself.

    But the question I was asked, when took my candidates' suitability test was 'Is there anything in your background which, if it came out at the wrong moment, could embarrass you or the party?' I replied that there was not. The UKIP hierarchy seem to think that my 'No' was such a substantial error of judgement that they don't want me to be a UKIP candidate ever again. I have also withdrawn as a UKIP candidate at the district council elections next year.

    The decision was made 'on-the-run' just before an important Conference, taking place for the first time with a substantial number of our own councillors present.

    While I think in principle it is good that firm decisions are made, rather than interminable 'internal enquiries', it does not stop me from being disappointed when it goes against me.

    I hope a very strong UKIP candidate for Cambridge is found, and I will continue to work for a BREXIT.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Very sorry to read about David Kendrick's decision overnight. I don't know him at all but on here he has always been unfailingly polite, gracious and a pleasure to read. UKIP don't seem to have many candidates of that quality.

    So far as McBride is concerned I think Labour will do their best to ignore this. McBride was indeed poisonous and completely untrustworthy but as a result any publisher who wants to remain in business would have required credible document trails at the time of the alleged actions before putting ink on paper. In short challenging any of this filth is just likely to make it worse by producing material on which it is based. Much better to stick your hands in your ears and make lala sounds.

    Of course a party that was fit to lead the country might take a different approach but I am not holding my breath.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Brown didn't know what McBride was up to, must be a work of fiction.

    Labour not the nasty party- who are people trying to kid.
  • Dafel said:

    Long time ATL lurker, first time poster! Going off-topic (apologies?), Polly Toynbee writes this morning that she asked Andrew Hawkins, chair of ComRes, "Would he stake his reputation on Labour winning most seats". She has him answering "Yes, I would."

    There appears to be no place for spin in this exchange - has Hawkins' view already been discussed here? It sort of seems a big call to me...

    A bit silly of Andrew Hawkins I think. Certainly 'if the election was held tomorrow', then that would be the case still given current polling, but no one can predict with any certainty the situation in over 18 months still.

    Based on probabilities, its probable still of course, but for a pollster to do that.. very strange.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Blimey - just catching up on McPoison - golly...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    antifrank said:

    When someone says "it isn't the money, it's the principle", it's the money.

    LOL. Excellent.
  • OT: I noticed there was some discussion last night of the violence (and torture) in Grand Theft Auto V. Being a gamer myself I've been playing it , although not up to the scene in question.

    You already know what your getting with GTA, you can car-jack, murder, and all sorts of underhand things, so it's not surprise. I would personally link it to a crime drama like the Soprano's or any other number of simpler shows. As long as you can delink fantasy and drama from reality, there really shouldn't be any moral problems, should there? We're all just actors on the stage now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited September 2013
    Here's what the Chief Execs, Chairman and Presidents including Andrew Hawkins of the pollsters predicted in April 2010.

    Ben Page of Mori was the only one to get it right.

    http://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2010/04/11/should-you-be-betting-on-the-pollsters-or-their-polls/
  • Plato said:

    Blimey - just catching up on McPoison - golly...

    Not much to see really, SO as usual makes sensible comments from the left view. Ed Balls = toast.

    Mind you that's cos he's a fellow xID. (can you believe how bad Tromso were, why wasn't Fryers etc playing last night!!)

  • DavidL said:

    antifrank said:

    When someone says "it isn't the money, it's the principle", it's the money.

    LOL. Excellent.
    Sadly, not my own words, but borrowed from Artemus Ward.
  • Financier said:

    "For example Collins proposes having primaries to select candidates in dwindling constituency parties."
    Henry, how does that relate to and work with AWS, approved candidates list or imposition of candidates by the Party?

    1) I suppose that the shortlist will be given by the party (central, regional, CLP?) before the primary. So if AWS still exist (sunset clause is expiring in 2015 and if Labour fail to win 2010 election, I guess they will not be the priority of the new government), the names offered to the public will be only ladies.

    2) You don't need to be on the approved candidates list to seek parliamentary selection in the Labour party. Candidates on the party and affiliates (unions and Co-Op) approved parliamentary candidates lists are directly approved by the NEC once selected. If you are not on any of these lists but manages to win a selection, you are interviewed later by a NEC panel to get the endorsement. It sometimes happens in hopeless CLPs. And it happened last time in Hull East when Prescott's successor wasn't on the candidates list and was interviewed later.
    So the question would be if the NEC would dare not to endorse a primary selected new candidate

    3) I am sure they will find a way to parachute who needs to be parachuted. They will us not dwindling constituency parties

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787



    Firstly, many thanks for all the wishes of support that I have received on PB.

    'Law makers should not be law breakers' is a sensible starting point. But there are obviously offfences which cannot sensibly disqualify a candidate.

    Where to draw the line? I received the maximum sanction for a procedural error, which was less than the penalty for overstaying time in a paid car-park. I viewed the offence as trivial, and I am sure would have been struck out in any case had I chosen to spend 12 days defending myself.

    But the question I was asked, when took my candidates' suitability test was 'Is there anything in your background which, if it came out at the wrong moment, could embarrass you or the party?' I replied that there was not. The UKIP hierarchy seem to think that my 'No' was such a substantial error of judgement that they don't want me to be a UKIP candidate ever again. I have also withdrawn as a UKIP candidate at the district council elections next year.

    The decision was made 'on-the-run' just before an important Conference, taking place for the first time with a substantial number of our own councillors present.

    While I think in principle it is good that firm decisions are made, rather than interminable 'internal enquiries', it does not stop me from being disappointed when it goes against me.

    I hope a very strong UKIP candidate for Cambridge is found, and I will continue to work for a BREXIT.

    David it's not quite clear to me.

    Are you resigning from Ukip whilst still supporting their main aim of BREXIT ?

  • I've ordered the McBride book.

    I hate myself.
  • Canterbury Seasalter

    UKIP 644
    Con 522
    Lab 307
    Lib Dem 147
    Green 54

    UKIP gain from Con

    Pretty stunning UKIP victory there in Kent, considering that they did not even have a candidate at the last election in 2011.
  • Fascinating read in the Mail – It appears Damian McBride has finally lanced the Labour boil from Gordon Brown’s years in office- and the gunk is heading Ed Balls way.

    I thought they didn’t know each other…!
  • On topic.

    Excellent piece Henry.

    Anything that encourages primaries should be welcomed.
  • I'd echo what Southam, Neil and Edmund said on the previous thread about David Kendrick.

    Sad day for politics and David.
  • Fascinating read in the Mail – It appears Damian McBride has finally lanced the Labour boil from Gordon Brown’s years in office- and the gunk is heading Ed Balls way.

    I thought they didn’t know each other…!

    Did anyone believe that line, even at the time. It's up there with Darlings budgets as the flimest of flimsy lines.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654

    I've ordered the McBride book.

    I hate myself.

    And so you should.

    (You will share the best bits won't you?)

  • DavidL said:

    I've ordered the McBride book.

    I hate myself.

    And so you should.

    (You will share the best bits won't you?)

    I will.

    Ordered the kindle version so will be easier to share the best bits.
  • can we exonerate Primarolo from spreading salacious gossip and blame everything on McB?
  • can we exonerate Primarolo from spreading salacious gossip and blame everything on McB?

    Yes.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2013
    Just walked through Covent Garden in Central London. There are, to my untrained eye, between 1,500 and 2,000 people queuing up to buy a phone at the Apple store.

    While this is head-shakingly noteworthy in its own right, what caught my eye was that about 95% of the queue was male, and 70% of the men were Asian.

    Does anyone have an explanation for this wildly disproportionate mix?
  • Anorak said:

    Just walked through Covent Garden in Central London. There are, to my untrained eye, between 1,500 and 2,000 people queuing up to buy a phone at the Apple store.

    While this is head-shakingly noteworthy in its own right, what caught my eye was that about 95% of the queue was male, and 70% of the men were Asian...

    In the past I've been one of the 70%

  • Some cash has clearly been going on the SNP candidate Shirley-Anne Somerville for the Dunfermline by-election next month.

    New Ladbrokes prices today:

    Lab 4/11 (from 1/3)
    SNP 2/1 (from 9/4)
    LD 33/1
    Con 100/1 (you can get 150/1 at BetVictor)
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited September 2013
    Anorak said:

    Just walked through Covent Garden in Central London. There are, to my untrained eye, between 1,500 and 2,000 people queuing up to buy a phone at the Apple store.

    While this is head-shakingly noteworthy in its own right, what caught my eye was that about 95% of the queue was male, and 70% of the men were Asian.

    Does anyone have an explanation for this wildly disproportionate mix?

    There's one born every minute.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    All very bromance

    " Damian McBride, Mr Brown’s former communications chief, said he discredited the former prime minister’s enemies by tipping off the media about drug use, spousal abuse, alcoholism and extramarital affairs.

    In an autobiography that will cast a shadow over Labour’s party conference in Brighton next week, Mr McBride admits attempting to ruin the careers of the former home secretaries Charles Clarke and John Reid. Mr McBride claims that he did it all out of “devotion” and “some degree of love” for Mr Brown, whom he describes as “the greatest man I ever met”.

    The disclosures will cause acute embarrassment to Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, and Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, who were allies of Mr Brown during his time in Downing Street..." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10322367/I-destroyed-careers-of-Blairs-ministers-admits-former-Brown-aide-Damian-McBride.html
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Canterbury Seasalter

    UKIP 644
    Con 522
    Lab 307
    Lib Dem 147
    Green 54

    UKIP gain from Con

    Pretty stunning UKIP victory there in Kent, considering that they did not even have a candidate at the last election in 2011.
    Yup, they are going to melt away at the next GE ! Did Labour get hurt in this seat or did the Tories lose a Councillor ?
  • The explanation is that I'm an apple whore.

    It's like crack cocaine*

    *Not that I've ever done cocaine
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Public Sector Finances Bulletin - Key Findings


    - In 2012/13, public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions and also excluding the effects of the transfer of the Royal Mail Pension Plan and the transfers from the Bank of England Asset Purchase Facility Fund was £115.7 billion. This was £2.8 billion lower than in 2011/12.

    - In 2012/13, public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSNB ex) was £81.3 billion. This was £37.2 billion lower than in 2011/12 when it was £118.5 billion.

    - In August 2013, the £3.9 billion transferred from the Bank of England Asset Purchase Facility Fund to HMT Treasury did not reduce the public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSNB ex). There were not any special factors affecting public sector net borrowing in August 2012 or August 2013.

    - In August 2013, public sector net borrowing excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSNB ex) was £13.2 billion. This was £1.3 billion lower than in August 2012 when it was £14.4 billion.

    - Public sector net debt excluding temporary effects of financial interventions (PSND ex) was £1,193.3 billion at the end of August 2013, equivalent to 74.6% of gross domestic product (GDP).

    - The central government net cash requirement for the 2013/14 year to date was £26.4 billion, £3.8 billion lower than the same period in 2012/13.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549



    Firstly, many thanks for all the wishes of support that I have received on PB.

    'Law makers should not be law breakers' is a sensible starting point. But there are obviously offfences which cannot sensibly disqualify a candidate.

    Where to draw the line? I received the maximum sanction for a procedural error, which was less than the penalty for overstaying time in a paid car-park. I viewed the offence as trivial, and I am sure would have been struck out in any case had I chosen to spend 12 days defending myself.

    But the question I was asked, when took my candidates' suitability test was 'Is there anything in your background which, if it came out at the wrong moment, could embarrass you or the party?' I replied that there was not. The UKIP hierarchy seem to think that my 'No' was such a substantial error of judgement that they don't want me to be a UKIP candidate ever again. I have also withdrawn as a UKIP candidate at the district council elections next year.

    The decision was made 'on-the-run' just before an important Conference, taking place for the first time with a substantial number of our own councillors present.

    While I think in principle it is good that firm decisions are made, rather than interminable 'internal enquiries', it does not stop me from being disappointed when it goes against me.

    I hope a very strong UKIP candidate for Cambridge is found, and I will continue to work for a BREXIT.

    Doesn't the dictator take all decisions "on the run" ?
  • JackW said:



    Firstly, many thanks for all the wishes of support that I have received on PB.

    'Law makers should not be law breakers' is a sensible starting point. But there are obviously offfences which cannot sensibly disqualify a candidate.

    Where to draw the line? I received the maximum sanction for a procedural error, which was less than the penalty for overstaying time in a paid car-park. I viewed the offence as trivial, and I am sure would have been struck out in any case had I chosen to spend 12 days defending myself.

    But the question I was asked, when took my candidates' suitability test was 'Is there anything in your background which, if it came out at the wrong moment, could embarrass you or the party?' I replied that there was not. The UKIP hierarchy seem to think that my 'No' was such a substantial error of judgement that they don't want me to be a UKIP candidate ever again. I have also withdrawn as a UKIP candidate at the district council elections next year.

    The decision was made 'on-the-run' just before an important Conference, taking place for the first time with a substantial number of our own councillors present.

    While I think in principle it is good that firm decisions are made, rather than interminable 'internal enquiries', it does not stop me from being disappointed when it goes against me.

    I hope a very strong UKIP candidate for Cambridge is found, and I will continue to work for a BREXIT.

    David it's not quite clear to me.

    Are you resigning from Ukip whilst still supporting their main aim of BREXIT ?

    No, I'm not resigning from the party. A strong UKIP is the best catalyst for a BREXIT.

    My skills (such as they are) are in selling, not administrative or organisational. UKIP don't want to me to front the party. Fair enough; I won't. So there is no appropriate local 'back-room' role, and I will no longer be a local activist. I will be an ordinary party member.

    FYI, I have offered to do some sales training for UKIP candidates on a pro bono basis, though it remains to be seen whether the powers that be within UKIP choose to take up that offer.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    The explanation is that I'm an apple whore.

    It's like crack cocaine*

    *Not that I've ever done cocaine

    LOL

    Looking at the queue it seems rumours of Apple's demise have been much exaggerated.

    Never got it myself. Have a 4S now (first Apple product). Will be going back to Android tho'.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Financier said:

    "For example Collins proposes having primaries to select candidates in dwindling constituency parties."
    Henry, how does that relate to and work with AWS, approved candidates list or imposition of candidates by the Party?

    1) I suppose that the shortlist will be given by the party (central, regional, CLP?) before the primary. So if AWS still exist (sunset clause is expiring in 2015 and if Labour fail to win 2010 election, I guess they will not be the priority of the new government), the names offered to the public will be only ladies.

    2) You don't need to be on the approved candidates list to seek parliamentary selection in the Labour party. Candidates on the party and affiliates (unions and Co-Op) approved parliamentary candidates lists are directly approved by the NEC once selected. If you are not on any of these lists but manages to win a selection, you are interviewed later by a NEC panel to get the endorsement. It sometimes happens in hopeless CLPs. And it happened last time in Hull East when Prescott's successor wasn't on the candidates list and was interviewed later.
    So the question would be if the NEC would dare not to endorse a primary selected new candidate

    3) I am sure they will find a way to parachute who needs to be parachuted. They will us not dwindling constituency parties

    Personally, I would approve of any "primaries" , particularly, in safe and marginal seats. The Unions can support their candidate(s), if they wish. After all, they will have to satisfy individual members.

    In marginal seats, I would be quite willing to open the electorate to the entire electorate of that constituency. Costs would be an issue.

    The shortlisting will be done by the Party like today. So, A Tory could not be a candidate.

  • If notorious dafty Gogsie Broon is the greatest man that Mr McBride has ever met then he really needs to get out a bit more.
  • Anorak said:

    The explanation is that I'm an apple whore.

    It's like crack cocaine*

    *Not that I've ever done cocaine

    LOL

    Looking at the queue it seems rumours of Apple's demise have been much exaggerated.

    Never got it myself. Have a 4S now (first Apple product). Will be going back to Android tho'.
    I've been an apple fan for years since my first mac in the 90s.

    My work mobiles are mostly Android.

    Both are good things.



  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:



    Firstly, many thanks for all the wishes of support that I have received on PB.

    'Law makers should not be law breakers' is a sensible starting point. But there are obviously offfences which cannot sensibly disqualify a candidate.

    Where to draw the line? I received the maximum sanction for a procedural error, which was less than the penalty for overstaying time in a paid car-park. I viewed the offence as trivial, and I am sure would have been struck out in any case had I chosen to spend 12 days defending myself.

    But the question I was asked, when took my candidates' suitability test was 'Is there anything in your background which, if it came out at the wrong moment, could embarrass you or the party?' I replied that there was not. The UKIP hierarchy seem to think that my 'No' was such a substantial error of judgement that they don't want me to be a UKIP candidate ever again. I have also withdrawn as a UKIP candidate at the district council elections next year.

    The decision was made 'on-the-run' just before an important Conference, taking place for the first time with a substantial number of our own councillors present.

    While I think in principle it is good that firm decisions are made, rather than interminable 'internal enquiries', it does not stop me from being disappointed when it goes against me.

    I hope a very strong UKIP candidate for Cambridge is found, and I will continue to work for a BREXIT.

    David it's not quite clear to me.

    Are you resigning from Ukip whilst still supporting their main aim of BREXIT ?

    No, I'm not resigning from the party. A strong UKIP is the best catalyst for a BREXIT.

    My skills (such as they are) are in selling, not administrative or organisational. UKIP don't want to me to front the party. Fair enough; I won't. So there is no appropriate local 'back-room' role, and I will no longer be a local activist. I will be an ordinary party member.

    FYI, I have offered to do some sales training for UKIP candidates on a pro bono basis, though it remains to be seen whether the powers that be within UKIP choose to take up that offer.

    Thank you David.

  • May I point out, if no-one else has, that McPoison would still be hard at work today were it not for the fact that his emails were hacked.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I think the genius of McBride is that he managed to take someone completely unsuitable to be left in charge of an egg being boiled and made him prime minister.

    You have to tip your hat at that.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    I've always preferred oranges to apples. Bananas are more user friendly.
  • Jonathan said:

    I've always preferred oranges to apples. Bananas are more user friendly.

    You are Stephen Milligan and I claim my five pounds.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The other genius of the McBride book timing is that every Ed interview over the conference is going to include - "What did you know of what McBride was up to ?"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    David Wooding @DavidWooding
    Brown's aide @DPMcBride talks in his book of his confessions to priest. Christian moral of the story? Beware, your spins will find you out!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Link to Guido - with lurid headline on McBride.

    http://order-order.com/2013/09/20/how-mcprickface-took-out-browns-rivals/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited September 2013
    TGOHF said:

    The other genius of the McBride book timing is that every Ed interview over the conference is going to include - "What did you know of what McBride was up to ?"

    The book is published the day of Ed's speech.

    Awesome timing
  • TGOHF said:

    The other genius of the McBride book timing is that every Ed interview over the conference is going to include - "What did you know of what McBride was up to ?"

    That will apply to both Ed's.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    TGOHF said:

    The other genius of the McBride book timing is that every Ed interview over the conference is going to include - "What did you know of what McBride was up to ?"

    The book is published the day of Ed's speech.

    Awesome timing
    Iain Dale knows how to make a media splash
  • I've read the extracts from the Damian McBride book in the Mail. He's been very brave. I'm not sure that any amount of money would have induced me to be so self-critical and to admit to so many examples of appalling behaviour.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    antifrank said:

    I've read the extracts from the Damian McBride book in the Mail. He's been very brave. I'm not sure that any amount of money would have induced me to be so self-critical and to admit to so many examples of appalling behaviour.

    Brave ? Lol.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    Anecdote alert...

    London bound with a bunch of UKIPPERs playing Farage speeches to each other. Whilst this is deplorable as it breaks the solemn code of train etiquette, can't quite imagine other party members being quite so enthusiastically garish.

    Interesting times.
  • The most interesting thing in the extracts so far is that Ed M was backed by Brown in the leadership election.

    Expect Dave and The Tories to keep on repeating that.

    Ed M the favoured candidate of the Unions and Brown.
  • Thanks everybody for the nice comments on yesterday's toon.

    Some wondered about mixed wards. In theory, they're gone; in practice, frayed knot. Still there folks.

    But then I rather imagined my couple were stuck in a corridor, where I understand 'customers' can still wait for eight hours.
  • If notorious dafty Gogsie Broon is the greatest man that Mr McBride has ever met then he really needs to get out a bit more.

    McBride confesses that he was ‘sucked in like a concubine at a Roman orgy’ to the ‘dark’ world of politics, which he says encourages ‘vanity, duplicity, greed, hypocrisy and cruelty’.

    And don’t forget, the impartial civil servant was handpicked by Gordon Brown for his ‘abilities’. I’m sure the adoration was mutual, they were the worst kind of kindred spirits.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Oh errrrrr

    "It's a matter of record that I had close links to Damian and wrote in his defence at the time of his self-defenestration. I was one of the journalists who benefited, if that's word, from his operations. Which compromises me of course, but it also gives me a better than average sense of just how reliable his account is. I'll wait until I've read the whole thing before pronouncing in full, but based on the Mail's initial extracts, here are some initial observations.

    First, day one hasn't produced a show-stopper of a revelation. The overall impression of fear and loathing at the heart of the Labour Party will be horrifying to read for those who weren't aware of quite how bad it was, but even the extraordinary account of the invented Charles Clarke plot is just more of what we knew.

    Second, it is worth noting his expression of contrition – "I regret the majority of what I did" – and the part his faith plays in that (he reveals that as a Catholic he goes to confession). Read in particular his account of his vindictiveness in his destruction of Ivan Lewis, and how he should have walked away but "to my eternal regret" didn't. It's a terrifying insight into the darkest side of politics, one that will make it all the more difficult for his former colleagues to forgive him. I suspect those who opposed him will find that bit hard to swallow, not least because they will suspect that his regret is insincere. Why? Because he remains devoted to Gordon Brown ("the greatest man I ever met"), though I gather their relations are not what they were, and goes out of his way to exonerate and build up his ally Ed Balls...>> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100237018/damian-mcbride-reveals-fear-and-loathing-at-the-heart-of-the-labour-party/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited September 2013
    Forgive me father but I am being brave and confessing my sins.

    It's all for charidee of course - you know sending money to teach wee africans to worship the church - you know the one with the huge gold plated palace in Italy filled with treasures worth more than the GDP of africa. I am confessing and saying 3 hail Tonys - can I go to heaven now ?

    Puke.
  • "The entire LibDem front bench and team of special advisers were booked into rooms on the 15th floor of the Crowne Plaza hotel in Glasgow, but it appears they didn’t get much sleep. The exertions of a bonking couple in one of the rooms kept the entire floor awake for most of Monday night. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thecolumnists/2013/09/from--2.html
  • "The entire LibDem front bench and team of special advisers were booked into rooms on the 15th floor of the Crowne Plaza hotel in Glasgow, but it appears they didn’t get much sleep. The exertions of a bonking couple in one of the rooms kept the entire floor awake for most of Monday night. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thecolumnists/2013/09/from--2.html

    Corporeal was there, perhaps that explains his good mood and optimism.

  • Anorak said:

    Just walked through Covent Garden in Central London. There are, to my untrained eye, between 1,500 and 2,000 people queuing up to buy a phone at the Apple store.

    While this is head-shakingly noteworthy in its own right, what caught my eye was that about 95% of the queue was male, and 70% of the men were Asian.

    Does anyone have an explanation for this wildly disproportionate mix?

    I think this is because the new phone is released first in Western countries like the UK and US, but not in some of the Far East and Middle East markets.

    Thus there are a lot of people in the queue being paid to buy the maximum number of new phones they are allowed, and they will be shipped off to Qatar, Singapore, Brunei, or wherever, to be sold on at a premium.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    "The entire LibDem front bench and team of special advisers were booked into rooms on the 15th floor of the Crowne Plaza hotel in Glasgow, but it appears they didn’t get much sleep. The exertions of a bonking couple in one of the rooms kept the entire floor awake for most of Monday night. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thecolumnists/2013/09/from--2.html

    Corporeal was there, perhaps that explains his good mood and optimism.

    So was OGH. Maybe those bruises weren't from a car after all...
  • One quick on-topic observation. Recruiting union members via the union link will be tough enough in opposition when the members are generally apathetic but are at least potentially motivated by opposition to the Tory(-led) government and when Labour and the unions are singing from more-or-less the same hymn-sheet in that battle. When Labour does return to government, as it will at some point, what then?

    Labour nearly went bust last time they were in power, only sustained by centrally-approved union donations and the money of big donors (which stopped dead after cash-for-peerages and is unlikely to be a viable route again for at least a decade due to that scandal). If Labour come to rely on large numbers of half-hearted union members signing up, what will happen once they start doing things that annoy those people, as is inevitable once faced with the choices that power brings. To govern is to choose and to choose is to piss off.

    Miliband's reforms are a gamble in the short term but short of a wholescale revolution in the level of political activity in the country, they'll be a disaster come their return to power.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    err.. no he wouldn't ... why do you lie all the time...
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    tim said:

    http://order-order.com/2013/09/20/cameron-caught-on-camera-in-sister-in-laws-bed/

    If it hadn't been for Ed Miliband Dave would've launched his missile that weekend

    Geez, me too. I'd be round my sis-in-laws every night.
  • The exertions of a bonking couple in one of the rooms kept the entire floor awake for most of Monday night. "

    Just a twosome? The LDs ain't the force they once were.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302
    Ho ho ho Mr Manson


    what impeccable timing, we will be reading all weekend about the "culture" of Ed's Labour.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    "But while much of the attention has previously been on the pounds, shilling and pence that would be lost..."

    Or as they used to be notated, L.S.D.
  • Labour nearly went bust last time they were in power, only sustained by centrally-approved union donations and the money of big donors (which stopped dead after cash-for-peerages and is unlikely to be a viable route again for at least a decade due to that scandal).

    So how does the Conservative Party survive?

    Is it simply that it acts in the interests of its donors, so does not piss them off, and so retains their support?

    Perhaps, by forcing the Labour party to rely on the support of a large number of individuals, rather than a small number of Union bosses, Miliband will ensure that the Labour party is more democratic and accountable - and doesn't shaft its own supporters so comprehensively when in government.

    From a democratic point of view this would be a good thing, wouldn't it?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Canterbury Seasalter

    UKIP 644
    Con 522
    Lab 307
    Lib Dem 147
    Green 54

    UKIP gain from Con

    Pretty stunning UKIP victory there in Kent, considering that they did not even have a candidate at the last election in 2011.
    The last election in the ward was a by election in May this year when UKIP came a very close second with slightly more votes than they got yesterday .
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    why do you lie all the time...


    If you read today's press, it seems to be the Labour 'culture'.

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited September 2013
    tim ... PB's very own version of McBride...
  • One thing's to be sure:

    Poly Toynbee and any other journalists who knew what was going on:

    a) Didn't help the Labour Party.
    b) Don't deserve to be journalists.
  • Anorak said:

    "The entire LibDem front bench and team of special advisers were booked into rooms on the 15th floor of the Crowne Plaza hotel in Glasgow, but it appears they didn’t get much sleep. The exertions of a bonking couple in one of the rooms kept the entire floor awake for most of Monday night. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thecolumnists/2013/09/from--2.html

    Corporeal was there, perhaps that explains his good mood and optimism.

    So was OGH. Maybe those bruises weren't from a car after all...
    that sounds more like the lib dems we know and love...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,494
    Wildly O/T: a constituent has urged investment in what appears to be a company aiming to create a sort of secondary market in government solar panel subsidies. I don't have any money to invest, but I'm curious all the same, and there are others here who know more about bonds than me. Would they think this a good proposition?

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-2423718/A-Shade-Greener-woos-investors-18-upfront-rate-year-retail-bond.html
  • Anorak said:

    "The entire LibDem front bench and team of special advisers were booked into rooms on the 15th floor of the Crowne Plaza hotel in Glasgow, but it appears they didn’t get much sleep. The exertions of a bonking couple in one of the rooms kept the entire floor awake for most of Monday night. "

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thecolumnists/2013/09/from--2.html

    Corporeal was there, perhaps that explains his good mood and optimism.

    So was OGH. Maybe those bruises weren't from a car after all...
    that sounds more like the lib dems we know and love...
    What - they're all bonkers?
  • @Nick Palmer

    It's time you faced up to the bitter truth, Nick. You don't have "constituents" any more. Anna does.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I'll be buying McBride's book next week. I find the Brown/Blair guerrilla warfare years fascinating. Given that one could barely put a fag paper between Blair and Brown's early political ideologies it is amazing how divided they became. The pursuit of power clouded Brown's mind, judgement and career.

    I suspect very few who worked for or against Brown between 1980 and 1997 will deny his quality, or perhaps, his 'greatness'. But his unpreparedness for the job of Prime Minister will forever be his legacy: a clear indication that after 2000 he spent too much of his enormous resources on battling Blair and engaging in paranoid and spiteful insurgencies rather than planning with clarity for the job that would one day inevitably be his.

    A Greek tragedy indeed, and McBride's take as an insider will be well worth reading.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,302

    One thing's to be sure:

    Poly Toynbee and any other journalists who knew what was going on:

    a) Didn't help the Labour Party.
    b) Don't deserve to be journalists.

    Yup. It also makes the criticisms of a rabid right wing press a bit questionable. It now appears Brogan and his mates on the Mail were the ones closer to reporting the truth ( they were seeing the fights first hand ) than the Omerta clan at the Mirror and Guardian.

    Strange times.
  • Guess who's theme song this is, by Chas n Dave "Rabbit Rabbit Rabbit"
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Fenster said:

    I'll be buying McBride's book next week. I find the Brown/Blair guerrilla warfare years fascinating. Given that one could barely put a fag paper between Blair and Brown's early political ideologies it is amazing how divided they became. The pursuit of power clouded Brown's mind, judgement and career.

    I suspect very few who worked for or against Brown between 1980 and 1997 will deny his quality, or perhaps, his 'greatness'. But his unpreparedness for the job of Prime Minister will forever be his legacy: a clear indication that after 2000 he spent too much of his enormous resources on battling Blair and engaging in paranoid and spiteful insurgencies rather than planning with clarity for the job that would one day inevitably be his.

    A Greek tragedy indeed, and McBride's take as an insider will be well worth reading.


    As Peter Oborne points out, the poison of spinning was not all with Brown's team

    "I was a political reporter throughout the Blair era, and there is no mystery at all why Mr Brown felt that he needed to employ McBride and Whelan.

    Gordon Brown employed them because Tony Blair employed Alastair Campbell.

    Numerous ministers were targeted by Mr Campbell and his team of Downing Street spin doctors during his time at No 10 from 1997-2003. The viciousness of the briefing – and the willingness to destroy the reputations of decent people who were members of the government – was utterly shocking."


    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100237005/why-did-gordon-brown-need-damian-mcbride-because-tony-blair-had-alastair-campbell/
This discussion has been closed.